"We're not law-enforcement officials," said Shahed Amanullah, a Washington, D.C.-based Muslim American entrepreneur with Silicon Valley connections. He has worked with the U.S. government on combating online extremism, but he said it's unrealistic to expect Muslim Americans to confront violent people in their midst.
"We're community members and Americans like everybody else," he said, "and we should have the same relationship with law enforcement that everybody else has. To expect us to be on the front lines without having the capacity or the support would not be [productive]. It wouldn't be productive with any community."
December 8, 2015
"Some Muslim Americans Irritated By Obama's Call For Them To 'Root Out' Extremism."
NPR reports. Excerpt:
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1 – 200 of 206 Newer› Newest»The situation is that the muslim community provides a safe space for the radicals.
Stop doing that.
They say news is the unusual. Hopefully this joker is not usual.
Hilarious. Pretty soon they will be demanding we pay millions for insulting them.
Where did Farook's $28,000 come from ?
Ok, Shahed, sorry we mentioned it. Go back to your willful ignorance.
Hey, stop ruining the narrative!
Just today I read we can't accept Trumps plan because the Muslims are vital in our war against terror.
"Let's Roll!!"
"Hey, we're not Air Marshals!"
The no snitch rules applies to this hood as well.
Here's a solution: abandon your faith, and say so publicly.
That'll earn you a death sentence in Sharia law.
Translated: "We're useless."
Unexpectedly!
In that vein, Christians should've known that there would be some Christian anti abortion nutcase that would shoot up a Planned Parenthood clinic after those videos came out. Those who had contact with him and heard his views should've reported him to authorities. How about those weird people up the block with all those kids, who walk around open carrying their assault rifles while wearing a T shirt picture of Jesus on it, at Walmart? Report them! Christians, take responsibility for the dangerous people in your midst who would do harm to innocents!
They aren't being asked to act as law enforcement. They are being asked not to tolerate that kind of behavior in their community. Make the extremists feel unwelcome. They are beyond the pale. I'm sure they would have no trouble making a member of their congregation feel unwelcome who espoused theological beliefs counter to theirs. Same thing.
"we should have the same relationship with law enforcement that everybody else has." Sorry, no. Actually, not sorry. We expect more. We demand more. Even O, of all people.
Trump is doing the most politically incorrect thing that can be done. He is confronting a real problem and demanding that the rest of the Pols take a stand. Paul Ryan says that is Un American. Interestingly only Rand Paul is taking a stand. The rest of them are blathering platitudes like Ryan and refuse to take any action.
They don't care about stopping the next violent Islamist attack on Americans? Okay.
This guy doesn't get it. If Muslims don't do it, people like me will do it.
It will go much better for them if they appear to be on our side. The problem is they aren't. They believe in Sharia law. Anyone who believes in Sharia law is an enemy of freedom. Anyone who believes in Sharia law is evil by any liberal definition.
Welcome to the foundations of the Second Amendment. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The Constitution (as far as I can recall) never talks about "police", "constables", or any other particulars regarding law enforcement. Standing Armies (of which we now have several operating at many different levels of government) were generally seen as dangers to the "free State" and in the context of current civil rights it's hard to say the Founders were wrong.
In other words, the State exists not to provide you with security, but with freedom. Alas and alack, if you want a free State, it's up to you to defend it.
"We would never ask any other faith community to stand up and condemn acts of violence committed by people within their groups," said Palestinian American activist Linda Sarsour
Yes we do. WTF? The left sends out these types of requests and demands for a living. Everyone today is expecting all GOP candidates to get on TV and do some self-flogging noodle whipping over Trump.
Obama has his answer. They're not going to join the fight. They're not going to "rat" on anybody.
For God's sake, this woman is not even willing to offer condemnation. Bet she hates Jews too.
Were I a Muslim I would be scared to death to become a vocal opponent of the extremists. Look at what happens to outspoken moderates in Pakistan (Salman Taseer). Any outspoken moderate in the U.S. will become a juicy target for the jihadists, and after the first two or three outspoken moderates are executed. . .
Blaming moderate Muslims for not standing up to the extremists is easy. Being a moderate Muslim and standing up to the extremists makes you a target for getting your throat slit.
He is right! Dropping an anonymous dime an a possible jihadist in your midst is something NO ONE would ever do! What an insane idea, like a crime-watch hotline or a neighborhood watch or something. It is unheard of, asking the local community to assist in policing efforts!
What he is expressing is his personnel fear. 'What? Me risk myself'
Moderates do not win wars. The idea that there is some force inside Islam effectively pushing back against AQ is utterly delusional.
I wonder how many Americans must die before we get through all the hand wringing and get down to the admitted nasty business of winning this war.
Some Muslims Americans irritated...
Others not so much.
Meanwhile, some non-Muslim Americans are also irritated by Obama scolding them.
And they wonder why we don't want more of them here.
this is an incredibly misleading article. the only objection I see written in it is for a call to "confront violent people in their midst," followed by examples of cooperation.
So Trump wants to ban Muslims, Amanda want's to SWAT Christians.
It's all good.
it's unrealistic to expect Muslim Americans to confront
Strawman alert! No one claimed they should "confront" them, only report them.
It seems to me if you have to change the expectation before you can claim it's out of line you're implicitly admitting the actual expectation is reasonable.
Blogger Amanda said...
In that vein, Christians should've known that there would be some Christian anti abortion nutcase that would shoot up a Planned Parenthood clinic after those videos came out. Those who had contact with him and heard his views should've reported him to authorities. How about those weird people up the block with all those kids, who walk around open carrying their assault rifles while wearing a T shirt picture of Jesus on it, at Walmart? Report them! Christians, take responsibility for the dangerous people in your midst who would do harm to innocents!
I agree with you Amanda. Christians are responsible for Christians who kill in the name of Christ.
If this guy had gone to my Church, we would bear responsibility for his actions.
What Church did the Colorado shooter go to again?
so he shouldn't have singled out Muslims, just ask everyone in the U.S. to report Muslims expressing view points that are not consistent with U.S. principles. I'd like to see the response to that.
From what I've read, Muslims have been not terribly helpful in dealing with radicals.
Either they fix the problem or they'd best shut up when others do it.
In that vein, Christians should've known that there would be some Christian anti abortion nutcase that would shoot up a Planned Parenthood clinic after those videos came out
I suppose we might EVENTUALLY get some evidence that he was a Christian. I mean, we have not YET, but EVENTUALLY...
How about those weird people up the block with all those kids, who walk around open carrying their assault rifles while wearing a T shirt picture of Jesus on it, at Walmart? Report them! Christians, take responsibility for the dangerous people in your midst who would do harm to innocents!
Using your logic, given that the ONLY person on the Do Not Fly List who killed anybody was a Democrat (Ted Kennedy), we should give close scrutiny to Democrats.
Don't worry, they will never kill their allies. It's why the "No snitching" nonsense in the 'hood never leads to predominately black deaths.
If killing 9 people justified the removal of the Confederate flag and desecration of Confederate memorials ... what does the killing of 14 justify?
Unlike with Root, there is considerable evidence that the propaganda from Islamists DOES cause considerable damage.
Express disagreement with Obama's call to assist in identifying terrorists, find yourself on the Government watch list and (if the Democrats have their way) denied the right to purchase firearms.
It's actually not ordinary Muslims who need to confront Islamic extremism, but religious leaders.
That is a problem because some of the most prominent imams are in bed with them.
They get money from them.
They get money from the people who conspired to create the San Bernadino massacre - and that's not ISIS in Syria.
That attack was not plannnd in Raqqa.
That was planned in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, and maybe Dubai (the place Syed Rizwan Farook told an acquantiance he wanted to move to - he had also used an UAE-oriented web site to search for a bride.)
Geez--we're not talking about legal obligations here. We're talking about the people best positioned to help stop these killers before they strike. Even if they only did it so that others wouldn't blame them by association, this is something they should do with gusto.
Blacks aren't "required" to take any extra steps to root out criminals who plague their communities. But they have a better chance of doing so--and stand more to benefit--than whites and other minorities do.
It seems a lot of the commenters here have got their brown shirts ruffled!
Amanda @ 11:38am gets it right, however.
It is perfectly OK for more ordinary people not to put themselves on the line, AT LEAST FOR NOW, but they should keep people informed, and disassociate themselves from them to the extent it is safe for them to do so and that it does not cut off a possible warning.
Amanda said...
"In that vein, Christians should've known that there would be some Christian anti abortion nutcase that would shoot up a Planned Parenthood clinic after those videos came out. Those who had contact with him and heard his views should've reported him to authorities. How about those weird people up the block with all those kids, who walk around open carrying their assault rifles while wearing a T shirt picture of Jesus on it, at Walmart? Report them! Christians, take responsibility for the dangerous people in your midst who would do harm to innocents!"
Failed moral equivalence. No Christian condoned or supported Dear. He lived alone in a shack without electricity. 99.9999% of armed and capable Christians would have done anything they could to stop him from shooting people in the parking lot before he ran into the planned parenthood building.
This has no similarity to what happened in San bernidino. To try to compare chirtians and Muslims in this scenario is some combination of stupidity and moral depravity. I hope for your sake it is stupidity, that can be fixed.
By the way, any denunciations of terrorism, if they are to mean anything, must include denunciation of the murder of Jews...in Israel - and even in the West Bank!
Specifically.
"The feeling among Muslims that more is expected of them than of other religious groups seems to be widespread."
Well..when other religious groups are similarly "hijacked" resulting in a like body count, they will feel the heat too. Until then, stop whining.
The idea that there is some force inside Islam effectively pushing back against AQ is utterly delusional.
Oh, there is. In Indonesia and in Italy. In Egypt Sisi talks about it.
Nut there are some people pushing it too. And they need to stop.
Amanda said...
In that vein, Christians should've known that there would be some Christian anti abortion nutcase that would shoot up a Planned Parenthood clinic after those videos came out. Those who had contact with him and heard his views should've reported him to authorities. How about those weird people up the block with all those kids, who walk around open carrying their assault rifles while wearing a T shirt picture of Jesus on it, at Walmart? Report them! Christians, take responsibility for the dangerous people in your midst who would do harm to innocents!
It's interesting that people are so unable to understand reciprocity. Does anyone believe those opposed to abortion are not expected to stop or report to law enforcement someone they discover is planning a violent attack? Of course they are which is why this expectation of Muslims is entirely normal.
Plus note that this liberal considers the existence of videos enough to tie a violent event to a political policy. But if such a flimsy event like these videos is sufficient to prove that tie how can one argue against the tie between anti-American and anti-Christian rhetoric by extremist Muslims to violence? In the Muslim world anti-American, anti-semitic, and anti-Christian rhetoric is both ubiquitous and explicitly intended to initiate violence. There is no point of evaluation where the anti-abortion tie to violence is greater than extreme Islam's ties which means the only rationale for these concurrent beliefs is a double standard.
Muslims just need to face reality and self deport back to Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Dearborn.
They are done for doing their planned takeovers here now. Trump supporters are as loyal to Trump as Marshall Chauvin was to his generation's Napoleon.
If you are part of a group, and your identity is tied up with being part of that group, and you can't find a way out, then if that group threatens you with DEATH for dismembering from the group, then you're unlikely to dismember.
Amanda said...
In that vein, Christians should've known that there would be some Christian anti abortion nutcase that would shoot up a Planned Parenthood clinic after those videos came out. Those who had contact with him and heard his views should've reported him to authorities. How about those weird people up the block with all those kids, who walk around open carrying their assault rifles while wearing a T shirt picture of Jesus on it, at Walmart? Report them! Christians, take responsibility for the dangerous people in your midst who would do harm to innocents!
Why? Did the video call for the murder of...(?)...in the name of Christianity? Are Christians encouraging the weird people up the block with the assault rifles to kill...(?)...in the name of Christianity? Even at this level, I have no idea what to do with your comment about the kids and the Jesus T-shirt.
What a hopeless mess. If that's the best you can do, Amanda, then even you should be able to realize how empty your arguments are.
As an atheist, I'm again faced with watching the Worldwide Muslims and Amerikan Christianists duke it out. I know the Muslims threaten atheists, humanists and other freethinkers with death, but at the hand of Amerikan Christianists, it's death by a thousand cuts: god all over our currency, prayer and moments of silence in public meetings, Ten Commandments monuments on courthouse lawns, ubiquitous god pledges, anthems and oaths, explicit prohibitions on public service by atheists in numerous state constitutions and exclusively Jews and Roman Catholics on SCOTUS.
Along with a ban on Muslim immigration, we could advance the cause of freedom by eliminating from the very laws of our land all these Christianist insults directed at non-believers. As a great Amerikan once said, extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!"
LarsPorsena said...
What he is expressing is his personnel fear. 'What? Me risk myself'
Moderates do not win wars. The idea that there is some force inside Islam effectively pushing back against AQ is utterly delusional.
Maybe so, but ultimately, this is a battle over the nature of Islam, and we are merely bystanders. As a non-Muslim, I don't get to say what true Islam is. For a less violent vision of Islam to prevail, battle must be waged by less violent Muslims. And so far the moderate Muslims have been a miserable failure.
"he said it's unrealistic to expect Muslim Americans to confront violent people in their midst"
Yeah, no kidding. It sure as fuck is.
Hey did anybody read this national story? The headline is SOME REPUBLICAN AMERICANS IRRITATED BY MEDIA CALLS FOR THEM TO "ROOT OUT" TRUMP.
No? I didn't either.
O's statement is based on the assumption that the violent extremists are a small minority within the American Muslim community, and the vast majority oppose them. I think this is one of those rare instances when O is correct. The whining from American Muslims that Oh my we can't be expected to do anything to help protect the country from these extremists, suggests that there are a lot more violent extremists than O and I think there are.
Blacks aren't "required" to take any extra steps to root out criminals who plague their communities. But they have a better chance of doing so--and stand more to benefit--than whites and other minorities do.
But if you refuse to assist with finding a murderer when you know who he/she is, then you have no right to complain when your neighborhood has a murder problem.
It's like with rape. If a woman will not go to the police about being raped, then BEST CASE, her story is bullshit. Otherwise, she is simply going to let another women get raped rather than deal with the mild inconvenience of being asked the same questions you'd be asked for any kind of criminal inquiry.
Where were good Christians? Why didn't they report the potential terrorists in their midst?
10 incidents over 31 years, one of which was done by a Communist (i.e not really "right-wing"). Damning stuff. That'd be a slow year for Islam. Most were done by a "Christian terrorist group" that, should I post their name here, nobody would have heard of them.
The 16th Anniversary of the Oklahoma City Bombing
On the 16th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing, it is important to take a moment to remember this awful tragedy, while also celebrating the stories of recovery and resilience that have emerged since.
...
Importantly, over the past two years, we have refocused our efforts around a simple but powerful idea: that homeland security starts with hometown security, and we all play a role in keeping our country safe.
...
As part of this approach, we have expanded the “If You See Something, Say Something,” campaign...
Yes, you should have the same relationship with law enforcement as everyone else. That is what is being asked of you.
Robert Cook said...
It seems a lot of the commenters here have got their brown shirts ruffled!
It's interesting Robert supports actual brownshirts - at Yale and Dartmouth - while arguing anyone who expects simple humanity from Muslims is a brownshirt.
One sign of extreme beliefs is how they twist you into stupid claims.
Blogger Amanda said...
10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men
Where were good Christians? Why didn't they report the potential terrorists in their midst?
Did you happen to read through that list? One is a left sing radical praised by Noam Chomsky, another is a robber who happened to kill a Sikh. Many others you have to go back 2 decades to find? Yeesh. Talk about grasping at straws.
I'll tell you what, when we have to go back two decades to find Islamic terror, then I'll agree with you.
For now, do better. You're embarrassing yourself.
In that vein, Christians should've known that there would be some Christian anti abortion nutcase that would shoot up a Planned Parenthood clinic after those videos came out. Those who had contact with him and heard his views should've reported him to authorities.
Look at how Christian extremists are treated in American culture. Consider how rare such attacks are. Do a body count. And then consider the possibility that might not have made the point you set out to make, but rather a competing point.
If we are to believe Obama about the innocence of virtually all Muslims, his request is like asking bank employees to identify embezzlers in their midst. The point ought not to be risk, but familiarity.
Of course, if you're an employee in for a cut of the take ....
Obama, as usual, is just trying to get himself off the hook for doing anything.
Even at this level, I have no idea what to do with your comment about the kids and the Jesus T-shirt.
It means Amanda finds "Home-schooling Jesus Freaks" more disquieting than Jihadists, either foreign or domestic. Even though I would wage a large sum she's more likely to actually find herself in conversation with a Jihadist than one of those really scary people. She somehow seems the latte-drinker-in-an-edgy-neighborhood type than a frequent Wal*Mart shopper.
I have a friend who came from a Muslim community and became a Christian. She says that if she went back to her home community, she would be killed.
This is what we're dealing with. These are barbarians.
Just wait until we Evangelicals start to weaponize our hand out Pamphlets with Holy Water,
10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men
LOL You didn't read the list, did you? Go back and read it.
Do a body count. Now, consider the population differences between U.S. Muslims and Christians. And never read AlterNet again.
ISIS leader, al-Baghdadi, has a doctorate in Islamic studies. Who then shall we believe about the nature of Islam, him and his consorts or Obama and the other apologists?
Just askin'.
Shorter: "No."
root out extremeism
Extremeism is to the citizen as weeds are to a garden.
But you don't know what advice it is giving.
Maybe it's suggesting a technique.
You take extremism out instance by instance, even the roots.
Or you could plow it all under.
Scything won't help much. It will grow back next year.
Cf. The Structure of Complex Words, p.338
"And they wonder why we don't want more of them here."
Says a guy who totally polices and surveills those within his own demographic, I'm sure. Work? Family time? Leisure? Nope, nope, nope. Let's all just police each other constantly, right?
Muslims who kill in the name of Allah are doing so out of a literal adherence to Quranic verses. I could cite those verses. What verses of the New Testament are being quoted by Christians who commit murder against abortion providers?
It seems a lot of the commenters here have got their brown shirts ruffled!
No Comrade Cookie, you ignorant slut, you got it wrong again!
1) We're trying to prevent the birth of a new generation of brownshirts by encouraging Muslim-Americans to police their own.
2) Your analogy sucks, because there was no Jewish conspiracy to destroy Germany...while there is sure as hell an Islamic pledge/plan/movement to destroy the United States.
Remember when a white guy shot some black people in South Carolina and suddenly every white that ever lived in America since 1850 was in some way responsible?
Man, those were great times.
It's very simple, and has absolutely nothing to do with the Constitution, or universities, or hashtags: minority populations will police their own, or they will be expelled by the majority with at least as much violence as necessary.
It's funny how the groups who denounce the very idea of American Exceptionalism are the ones who most strongly believe that this time people will behave differently than thousands of years of human history was suggest.
@jimbino(10:32): Perhaps the anti-theist cultists should join forces with protesting students demanding removal of those "triggers" that make them feel "unsafe" or the resignations of engravers responsible for "In God We Trust" on currency.
Damiwhatever,
The list of the Christian terrorist acts is hardly complete. There have been many other incidents of terrorist acts in the name of Christianity. For starters, here's a hint. Think about what symbol the KKK uses.
Ah..moral relativism is livin' large in the article and here in Amanda and Jimbino's comments. Hey..Just don't float the "death by a thousand cuts" bit around the families of those just slain. And that use of the k is sooo clever...
Amerikan Christianists, it's death by a thousand cuts: god all over our currency, prayer and moments of silence in public meetings, Ten Commandments monuments on courthouse lawns, ubiquitous god pledges, anthems and oaths, explicit prohibitions on public service by atheists in numerous state constitutions and exclusively Jews and Roman Catholics on SCOTUS.
I KNOW! Just behead me already. That would be so much easier.
Sorry CJinPA, I don't often read Breitbart and WND. I'll try to do better.
"The guerrilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea."
Mao got it right. It worked for the Mafia. It works in the inner city. It works for Islamists.
"In that vein, Christians should've known that there would be some Christian anti abortion nutcase that would shoot up a Planned Parenthood clinic after those videos came out. Those who had contact with him and heard his views should've reported him to authorities."
Anyone who did have knowledge or reasonable suspicion absolutely should have reported him. That is true for any crime a person suspects is about to be committed. Is anyone suggesting otherwise?
"How about those weird people up the block with all those kids, who walk around open carrying their assault rifles while wearing a T shirt picture of Jesus on it, at Walmart? Report them! Christians, take responsibility for the dangerous people in your midst who would do harm to innocents!"
None of those features are signs of a person likely to commit some crime or act of terror (even the "assault rifles" although some leftists think otherwise). Likewise, no Muslim should be reporting a person just for keeping hallal or wearing a headscarf. On the other hand, if you notice your neighbor fiddling with bomb parts in his basement or grumbling about how he plans to kill a lot of people, you should report that--whether he's Christian, Muslim or anything else.
Amanda, if I were a Muslim or a Christian or a Buddhist in the trailer next to Dear's, and I overheard him threatening or planning an attack, I'd sure as heck report it. I think that is all that is being asked of people of good will, with a recent obvious emphasis on Muslims, if you are aware of something specific, report it.
As for the Walmart scenario, well, if you shop there, you should expect to see many people that for one reason or another, one might find offensive. Use Amazon, in front of mirror. That'll help with your paranoia of those not like you.
How convenient!!!!!!
"Why didn't they report the potential terrorists in their midst?"
Good question. We didn't hear from the moderate a Christians after the Colorado Springs massacre. If there are any.
Two threads miraculously tied together:
Pigs Root Out Ancient Hunter-Gatherers
"Says a guy who totally polices and surveills those within his own demographic, I'm sure. "
I don't even know what that means. Do I have situational awareness ? Yes. Do you ?
I keep spotting medical conditions in people I meet on the street or in a store. I avoid mentioning it almost always but once in a while I do. They are almost always startled.
Syrian refugees who sparked concerns after showing up at Texas border are Christians.
Would Trump give them refuge?
Maybe they are concerned that if they report something, they will find themselves on the hook for $15 million? It's a legitimate concern.
"Some Muslim Americans Irritated By Obama's Call For Them To 'Root Out' Extremism."
I think Tashfeen Malik would have felt the exact same way.
R. Chatt:
Exactly. It is only legitimate to construct classes based on commonly held principles or uniformly expressed behavior. The moral depravity of class diversity schemes which are an extension of racism, sexism, etc. is a resurrection of an old enterprise.
While elective abortion is a predictable and preventable form of premeditated murder, the dynamic becomes complicated when a minority demand and a majority tolerate abortion rites under the pro-choice doctrine, and presumably but not necessarily (despite the cult's desperate defense which is not in principle representative of its members) clinical cannibalism and trafficking by Planned Parenthood et al.
The only justification in the Christian religion to commit murder is self-defense.
The notable irony of today's anti-native (domestic and foreign) policy proponents is that abortion rites were claimed in America with the premise of promoting environmental (e.g. social, cultural, political) stability.
Amanda is on a roll here with her hate Christian rhetoric. Maybe the New York Daily News has a job for you.
Is your real name Stasi ?
The refugee crisis began with Obama's premature evacuation of American forces from Iraq. Followed by the poorly conceived social justice (e.g. "Arab Spring") movement that backed regime assassinations (e.g. Libya, Syria), mass murder of politically incorrect people (e.g. nationalist Muslims, Christians, etc.), undeclared coups (e.g. Egypt, Ukraine), and now a refugee crisis in order to avoid taking responsibility for causing and sustaining a humanitarian disaster.
The solutions is, of course, a quick fix, similar to the premeditated killing of over one million unwanted and inconvenient wholly innocent human lives annually in America alone under abortion rites. And the there is clinical cannibalism by Planned Parenthood et al that progresses a morally insane incentive for elective abortions. It's almost as if debasing human life is the goal and the immigration and refugee policies are designed to compensate and suppress dissenting voices.
Blogger Amanda said...
Syrian refugees who sparked concerns after showing up at Texas border are Christians.
Would Trump give them refuge?
Amanda isn't the brightest bulb. But she is smart enough not to engage anyone here. If she does, she becomes a laughing stock.
Yes, Trump would give them refuge. That's the whole point of our refugee laws. To protect those who are being persecuted. Guess which religion is persecuted in Syria.
Blogger garage mahal said...
"Why didn't they report the potential terrorists in their midst?"
Good question. We didn't hear from the moderate a Christians after the Colorado Springs massacre. If there are any.
It's come to light the Colorado Springs murderer was a Muslim.
Ooops.
"It's interesting Robert supports actual brownshirts - at Yale and Dartmouth -"
Rick, you shouldn't invent shit...it undoes anything you have to say.
I think the president meant not to personally support it and to report something that looked dangerous, whether it appeared to be recruiting to violence or preparing for it.
But I can hardly argue that any individual Muslim would be safe in confronting a radical takfiri type. They would be likely to be the first victim. They are certainly not going to stand up and argue with such a person, because these people have an ideology that justifies murder of anyone who opposes their beliefs, and in particular, considers any Muslim who does not agree with their beliefs an apostate who should be killed.
This is not realistic. If we let a lot of violent Muslims in the country, we cannot expect your average ordinary Muslim to stalk them down and fix our mistake.
Amanda wrote: Christians should've known that there would be some Christian anti abortion nutcase that would shoot up a Planned Parenthood clinic after those videos came out.
Utter desperation. One can tell from her frenzied style.
Amanda said... [hush][hide comment]
10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men
Where were good Christians? Why didn't they report the potential terrorists in their midst?
12/8/15, 12:20 PM
Incredible, they had to go all the way back to 1984 in order to get 10 (31 years). Care to guess how many months we have to go back to get a comparable number of relative Muslim committed terrorist acts?
That is not to say that you do not have a point, because you do, tight groups are somewhat responsible for what their members do - especially if they have awareness of what those individuals are up to.
On the other hand, you are pointing out a dripping leak in the dam when there is a 6 foot crack gushing water right next to you that you refuse to see. Never mind, you hang in there with your anti-Christian rhetoric and while you are there, please remind me how many gays, children, women, and Jews that Christian terrorists have killed this decade. How many buses they have blown up. How many of them have convinced children and women to strap op suicide vests and detonate them in crowds. How many have cut off the heads of innocent people. Please, I will wait...
Amanda must buy tu quoque fallacies by the gross. It's cheaper that way.
Amanda:
As has been pointed out, Timothy McVeigh declared 'science is my religion' and denied, vehemently, that he was in any way a Christian. The attack against the IRS was by a left-wing quasi-communist. Remove those from your list going back 20 years and we have...fewer than 100 deaths due to Christians. I will put that against Islam's record over the same period.
Thanks for playing, Amanda.
Translation: It's not my job, man!
I think the "irritation" reportedly felt by some American Muslims at Obama's call for them to root out extremism "in their community" has to do with the implications of that call: it assumes that American Muslims commonly have close associations--friends, family members, acquaintances, business associates--with Muslim extremists. The question has an underlying question: "Why aren't you reporting the extremists you know and that we know you know? If you're not reporting on terrorists in your midst, you must support them and applaud their acts!"
It would be like asking all Italian-Americans to help root out the scourge of the Mafia; implicit in the statement is the assumption that all or most Italians are members of or know people who are members of the Mafia.
It's an unspoken accusation against all American Muslims, (as would the hypothetical be an unspoken accusation against all Italian-Americans).
Amanda said "Nigel won't eat red M&Ms. Here are blue M&Ms. I guess Nigel won't eat them."
"The attack against the IRS was by a left-wing quasi-communist."
I haven't read the list, so I don't know the particulars about this guy, but, is it assumed that an extremist Christian cannot also be a communist, quasi or otherwise? Christianity as preached by Christ was quasi-communistic.
The list of the Christian terrorist acts is hardly complete.
Feel free to expand on it. I mean, this was the best you could find and required going back 31 or so years. Make sure that they're Christians, though. You can even cite AlterNet if it makes you happy.
There have been many other incidents of terrorist acts in the name of Christianity. For starters, here's a hint. Think about what symbol the KKK uses.
The American flag?
And you can name the Christians who support them? Care to compare their membership and jihadi-supporting Muslims? If Muslims ONLY burned crosses, they'd become almost quaint.
Good question. We didn't hear from the moderate a Christians after the Colorado Springs massacre. If there are any.
Was Dear a Christian? I have yet to see anything about his religious identification. And he lived alone in a cabin with no electricity. Wasn't like he had, you know, lots of neighbors or anything.
Blogger Robert Cook said...
"It's interesting Robert supports actual brownshirts - at Yale and Dartmouth -"
Rick, you shouldn't invent shit...it undoes anything you have to say.
So, those students rioting and invading the Dartmouth library and forcing students there studying to stand and chant "Black Lives Matter" or be assaulted were not acting like Brownshirts ?
Hmmm. I didn't know you had gone that far over the edge,
Often the "right wing Christian terrorist" label comes courtesy of the idiots at the SPLC. I feel it's fair to call them idiots because they do not seem to understand the difference between a genetic feature and a congenital feature.
The SPLC is basically a fund raising outfit. You can read its donor list here: http://www.nincal.com/usage/usg005078.pdf
Note that the DNC is on the list. For consistency's sake, the SPLC should be considered a hate group itself.
The problem with mixing 'right wing Christian terrorism' with Islamic terrorism is that the occasional right wing terrorist (and national socialists are not conservative in the American sense of the term), is that Islamic terrorists are usually part of a larger organization. It's only a slight exaggeration to say that the majority of every group of right wing terrorists are FBI informants. Because right wing terrorists cells are isolated, right wing terrorism can't metastasize. There is no central planning. They don't learn from their mistakes, because the members of the group are uprooted after their early attacks.
The inability to make distinctions like this is yet another reason why the Left in the US is not fit to govern.
Robert Cook said...
Rick, you shouldn't invent shit...it undoes anything you have to say.
Robert claims calls commenters here brownshirts and follows up with this.
Some people are clueless.
"So, those students rioting and invading the Dartmouth library and forcing students there studying to stand and chant "Black Lives Matter" or be assaulted were not acting like Brownshirts?"
Where have I ever expressed support for them?
Eric hon,
I'm not in the least bit interested in engaging most people here in discussion or debate. I am enjoying myself however by presenting information and ideas that you won't find on Fox, Breitbart, or WND. Consider my presence here a public service. Althouse does on occasion challenge deeply entrenched conservative notions and it's usually not well recieved. I think you conservatives in this little comments section bubble need your cages rattled a little bit more everyday just to keep you on your toes. If you become to complacent about the correctness of your world views, you turn into Trump supporters.
Cook said:
The question has an underlying question: "Why aren't you reporting the extremists you know and that we know you know? If you're not reporting on terrorists in your midst, you must support them and applaud their acts!"
--
You might be stretching the "underlying" part.
If it was obvious, in your face and applauded..the term "root" wouldn't be used. but you know..this elemental request needs to somehow be deemed offensive.
Robert Cook said...
It would be like asking all Italian-Americans to help root out the scourge of the Mafia; implicit in the statement is the assumption that all or most Italians are members of or know people who are members of the Mafia.
The implicit assumption is that most or all members of the mafia know other Italians. The reverse is not necessarily true. Cook's assertion is a strawman designed to create the illusion of a logical error to create an argument for those who cannot refute the expectation honestly.
assumption that the violent extremists are a small minority within the American Muslim community, and the vast majority oppose them.
There is just some good old championism going on. People root for their own team. The more Muslim enclaves build up in this country, the safer it will be for them to support Islamists, first tacitly, then overtly. It's just a defense mechanism, when you feel insignificant and outhustled in the dominant culture.
It's a matter of numbers. I don't want to get to critical mass.
"It would be like asking all Italian-Americans to help root out the scourge of the Mafia; implicit in the statement is the assumption that all or most Italians are members of or know people who are members of the Mafia."
My wife grew up in an Italian neighborhood back in the day. Yes, Robert, they did know who the Mafia were. (Of course, now you'll come back and hide behind the word "all".
Some one tell these folks that most law enforcement and Americans neither understand Arabic or ever set foot in a mosque.
Blogger Amanda said...
Eric hon,
I'm not in the least bit interested in engaging most people here in discussion or debate.
Of course you're not.
Robert Cook, lie down in the bed you made.
Sorry CJinPA, I don't often read Breitbart and WND. I'll try to do better.
No silly, don't rely on any site to think for you. My responses to your troll posts? That was me, reading your info, considering your stance, and refuting it with rational observation based on widely available information.
You realize you're commenting on a post that cited NPR as a source, and you countered with a link to the left-wing AlterNet, right?
Don't be just another cowardly troll. Have the confidence to state an opinion and support it with complete sentences. I know you can do it!
Amanda said...
I'm not in the least bit interested in engaging most people here in discussion or debate.
Since the left controls the vast majority of public space they have plenty of places to discuss events. The only leftish believers interested in combined space are only there to insult others. Althouse and others like to think leftish commenters are "driven off" but the truth is there aren't any (other than trolls).
"Where have I ever expressed support for them?"
So which is it Cookie ? Brownshirt students or Brownshirts commenters ?
You need to try harder.
Amanda:
10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men. Where were good Christians? Why didn't they report the potential terrorists in their midst?
Of that "Top 10" list, six were 17-31 years ago. Apparently such attacks are so rare that one has to collect all possible incidents from the last 3 decades. Only 4 were from this century. Moreover, consider one from this century:
8. Suicide attack on IRS building in Austin, Texas, Feb. 18, 2010.
From The Insane Manifesto Of Austin Texas Crash Pilot Joseph Andrew Stack:
The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.
I don't know of any "Far-Right" person who would write this. If you do, you and I do not reside on the same planet. Nor do I see how anyone can claim this is the writing of an "extreme Christian." It sounds to me more like the writing of a Progressive. Joseph Stack, the writer of this manifesto and the person who crashed the plane into the IRS office in Austin, was a sick, disturbed person. Unlike you, I see no reason to blame a particular side of the political aisle for his actions.
So, of your "Top 10" list, only 3 could be considered "Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men" in this century, from which 9 people were killed. Fourteen were just killed in San Berdoo. Pretty thin gruel, Amanda.
assumption that the violent extremists are a small minority within the American Muslim community, and the vast majority oppose them.
And it's just an assumption, because there is little to no evidence the vast majority of U.S. Muslims are doing a damn thing to reform their religion.
A Pew poll finds that 13% of U.S. Muslims think suicide bombings can be justified. For young U.S. Muslims, it's 1-in-4.
Only 40% of U.S. Muslims believe that Arabs took part in the 9/11 attacks.
Demanding that rational people Not Notice Things is one sure way to produce opportunists like Donald Trump, who fill the void.
I'm not in the least bit interested in engaging most people here in discussion or debate.
Then why bother? That's what blog comment sections are for.
Consider my presence here a public service. Althouse does on occasion challenge deeply entrenched conservative notions and it's usually not well recieved. I think you conservatives in this little comments section bubble need your cages rattled a little bit more everyday just to keep you on your toes.
Oh, please. What we have here is another elitist liberal who is sure she's smarter than all of the commenters here. We get plenty of exposure to the rest of the world, since it's your side that practically owns 90% of the media and all of the school systems in the country, so there is no way to avoid it. Sweetheart, you couldn't wear the jockstraps of the bulk of the commenters here when it comes to actual real-world knowledge, so let's stop with the attitude. You ought to take your own advice and get out of your own bubble.
but, is it assumed that an extremist Christian cannot also be a communist, quasi or otherwise?
Given that communism declares all religions are lies...yeah pretty much.
"I'm not in the least bit interested in engaging most people here in discussion or debate."
Best definition of a troll this week
"My wife grew up in an Italian neighborhood back in the day. Yes, Robert, they did know who the Mafia were. (Of course, now you'll come back and hide behind the word 'all'.)"
Of course. Your anticipating the problem with your anecdotal evidence does not undo the problem.
It's interesting that there's this reaction in spite of O repeatedly falling all over himself to not offend. It's entertaining seeing so many lefties normally very anti-religion and oblivious to the constitution suddenly concerned over protected religious rights. But you know..means to an end..
How did that mafia caliphate work out?
Amanda said...
How about those weird people up the block with all those kids, who walk around open carrying their assault rifles while wearing a T shirt picture of Jesus on it, at Walmart? Report them!
From what I've seen those are Indians wearing Duck Dynasty shirts (easily confused with Jesus), and every time I report them I get kicked out.
Translation: We don't want to get beheaded either.
Non-Muslim Americans simply can't be counted on to tell the difference between the radical terrorist Muslims and the moderate Muslims that support the same ideals but just don't kill people. This is the reason Trump's proposal is RIGHT.
Look at what happened in San Bernardino. Those poor people threw those killers a baby shower and look what happened to them a few months later? They didn't suspect Mohammed would go full Jihad on them and it happened anyway. Look at the 911 hijackers. The ticket agents knew something was wrong and didn't say anything. Look at clock boy. If you're guess wrong and Mohammed isn't a killer, then you're gonna get PC-slammed. If you guess wrong and Mohammed is a killer, you're dead.
Muslims routinely get a pass because the fear of PC Police is significant. The fear of San Bernardino and Paris should be greater, but so far the response is that the biggest problem in our country is people might say mean things about Muslims. Muslims' feelings TRUMP common sense security and the rest of us get our e-mail read by the Feds. When we get killed and the elites rushe out to make sure Mohammed doesn't feel bad. FUCK THAT! They should feel bad, particularly considering the number one thing pushed these days is our fucking tribal identity. Well, that's your tribe, Mohammed. Do something about it!
The bottom line is that these Muslims start ratting out the jihadists or Trump's proposal is going to carry the day. That's the trade off. Pick one. And if you believe me these people are a threat, start posting pictures of the Prophet Mohammed on your Facebook page. See how well that goes down.
"Some Muslim Americans Irritated By Obama's Call For Them To 'Root Out' Extremism." Facts are irritating. See David French, dispelling the "few extremists" myth at NRO.
I'm not in the least bit interested in engaging most people here in discussion or debate.
OK, so we can ignore you then. Thanks.
Outside of Cook, I can't think of many Lefties who are ever willing to discuss things. Are your ideas THAT weak?
. I am enjoying myself however by presenting information and ideas that you won't find on Fox, Breitbart, or WND.
They don't seem to cited that often. Fox News may be on rare occasion. Breitbart is very seldom mentioned. I don't think WND has ever been mentioned.
Consider my presence here a public service.
You shouldn't flatter yourself so.
Althouse does on occasion challenge deeply entrenched conservative notions and it's usually not well recieved.
Disagreements occur? My, clutch my pearls and call me Shirley!!
I think you conservatives in this little comments section bubble need your cages rattled a little bit more everyday just to keep you on your toes.
Our mistake was assuming you'd have a discussion in good faith. Since we know you will not, we can just go on to mocking you. Aren't you just PRECIOUS?
If you become to complacent about the correctness of your world views, you turn into Trump supporters.
Or Hillary supporters. Or *shudder* Bernie supporters.
Oh wait, you don't think you're complacent on the correctness of your world views, do you?
Oh, honey.
If only the San Bernadino shooter had waited two years! According to his father, a fellow Jew hater, Israel will be gone in two years with the Jews back in the Ukraine.
The hatred of Jews is something of a cornerstone of this religion.
Amanda said...
"Eric hon,
I'm not in the least bit interested in engaging most people here in discussion or debate. I am enjoying myself however by presenting information and ideas that you won't find on Fox, ...."
We have noticed. You are a troll. Nothing more, nothing less. All of your "presented information" has been seen by most of us before. That is why when we engage you we effectively knock down your argument and you run off with another weak squirrel post. Garage does the same thing. I have a pretty good read on you and your paradigm now.
You are just as boring and incapable of critical thought as all the other kids that come out of studies majors. You are nothing special. We get one of you every so often here. I am glad you enjoy posting like a vapid tit. All of the kids I know with downs syndrome are really happy as well.
There's not much point in arguing with someone "not in the least bit interested in engaging most people here in discussion or debate", but I'll make just three points, mostly for others:
1. Amanda keeps insisting she's linked to a list of "Christian terrorists" but the linked page does not allege that McVeigh was a Christian. As Laurel Lowrey has already pointed out (to deafening silence from Amanda - 2:26pm) he wasn't. Nor was the IRS plane-crasher - his opinions were incoherent and paranoid.
I would add that Eric Rudolph was also not a Christian: he said that he appreciated people sending him Bibles in prison but he much preferred Nietzsche.
The list of ten is down to seven now: a C- or D in most public schools.
2. As for support networks, Eric Rudolph evaded capture for years in the Smoky Mountains. Lefties assured us that the locals were helping him evade capture and providing him with food, supplies, shelter, and encouragement. When he was captured, he was dumpster-diving, which means total support for that kind of terrorist in the area was insufficient to feed one man an adequate diet.
3. An example of what Muslims need to do was provided by the Unabomber's brother. When he recognized his brother's writing style and verbal tics in the manifesto, he called the FBI and suggested they investigate. He hated to turn in his own brother, but he did it because it was the right thing to do. I hope there are plenty of Muslims behaving the same way, and we just don't know their names because they prefer not to become targets themselves, but I can't assume that that's what's going on.
Root hog or die.
How about those weird people up the block with all those kids, who walk around open carrying their assault rifles while wearing a T shirt picture of Jesus on it, at Walmart?
Why aren't the open carry enthusiasts over in Syria fighting terrorists instead of waddling their fat asses around department stores in America?
"Your anticipating the problem with your anecdotal evidence does not undo the problem."
The neighborhood knew the Mafia. The police knew the Mafia (they used to lived in the neighborhood). What don't you believe about that?
Of course Muslim Americans are irritated...
By the way, can we call them American Muslims, instead of Muslim Americans?
Dr Weevil said... I hope there are plenty of Muslims behaving the same way, and we just don't know their names because they prefer not to become targets themselves, but I can't assume that that's what's going on.
Whether or not it is actually happening the fact that people are arguing against the expectation demonstrates how extreme they are. Why wouldn't we expect them to turn in people planning violence?
Dr. Weevil..#3 is a pretty compelling point. I wonder if that will ever be brought up again in this context.
It occurs to me that many Leftists may believe that if you are an average American, among the 50% or so that both identify as a Christian and believe that abortion on demand should be illegal, you will turn a blind eye to a neighbor who is plotting to shoot up a planned parenthood facility.
"Your anticipating the problem with your anecdotal evidence does not undo the problem."
Cookie, my father was Irish and knew who the Mafia were in Chicago. In some lines of business, you could not avoid them. Everybody knew who they were. You just don;t get out much.
"Why aren't the open carry enthusiasts over in Syria "
Some of them, coward,
"An example of what Muslims need to do was provided by the Unabomber's brother."
Exactly and there is pretty good statistical evidence that there is considerable support for violent jihad in the Muslim world, even here in the US.
https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBritainFirst/videos/660586764086588/?fref=nf
I don't know how anyone can watch this video and think Muslim immigration is a good idea.
The fact is that Islamic extremists are the Islamic purists. Islam is a religion of geographic, political and theological conquest. Moderate Muslims want to be in the majority and control the culture, they just don't want to do the dirty work.
Cook doesn't actually engage. He lies, obfuscates and dissembles.
He's an ahistorical Stalinist with a slightly better than average vocabulary.
He'll spout platitudes couched as 'wisdom'. But he's really quite ignorant and unable to support his arguments... So he really has no choice other than to lie, obfuscate, and dissemble.
I am more than happy to troll you folks. You may actually have a livelier conversation because of if and you may eventually come to enjoy the thorn (me) poking your side, reminds you you're still alive. There is nothing more boring than a bunch of old white men bitching to one another another about the bad liberals. I do the Lord's work here, don't knock it. Learn to love the opposing voice in your midst, it will make you grow as a human. You will thank me one day, mark my words.
I posted this on a stale thread last night so I don't thing anyone read it. It fits too.
The so-called moderate Muslims are lukewarm, back-sliding, cultural Muslims who just want to go to Mosque and celebrate the holidays they are familiar with, without thinking too much about their religion. Maybe they have a ham sandwich and a beer every once in a while. They are sort of like Episcopalians in their approach to religion. However, as long as they are attending Mosque, they are exposed to the original scriptures and may experience a revival, return to the one true faith, and develop Sudden Jihad Syndrome. Their friends and relatives don't call them out on this because they are ashamed of being the lukewarm Muslim apostates that they are. They know that if they had the courage of their convictions, they would join the Jihad as well.
The upshot of this is that moderate Muslims have no scriptural teaching or religious authority that they can call on to justify their unfaithful behavior. There are other religions like this that come to mind, Reform Judaism and Unitarian-Universalism for example. However, these have not had much influence on the religions from which they sprang. Therefore it is unreasonable to expect moderate Muslims to have much influence on Koran following, Mohammed believing, Jihadi Muslims. They have no more influence than us other infidels, maybe less—consider Salmon Rushdie.
BTW, it is interesting to learn that some Muslims have called themselves Unitarians because they do not accept the concept of the Trinity, as Unitarian-Unilateralists also do not.
garage mahal: "Why aren't the open carry enthusiasts over in Syria fighting terrorists instead of waddling their fat asses around department stores in America?"
You have always been your own worst enemy, haven't you?
I can only hope your father hasn't had to witness what his witless son has become.
jimbino: "As an atheist, I'm again faced with watching the Worldwide Muslims and Amerikan Christianists duke it out. I know the Muslims threaten atheists, humanists and other freethinkers with death, but at the hand of Amerikan Christianists, it's death by a thousand cuts: god all over our currency, prayer and moments of silence in public meetings, Ten Commandments monuments on courthouse lawns, ubiquitous god pledges, anthems and oaths, explicit prohibitions on public service by atheists in numerous state constitutions and exclusively Jews and Roman Catholics on SCOTUS."
LOL
F'n hilarious!
Amanda: "I am more than happy to troll you folks."
Oh. So that's what you think you are doing.
Fascinating.
If they are then that's their problem.
WE didn't invent and propagate the ideas of jihad, taqiyya, dhimmi status, dar al Harb and Mohammed as the ideal of manhood. They did.
We don't have to account for the consequences of those themes. They do.
Amanda: I find your screed at 7:09 particularly repugnant. Your comments evince a sophomoric insecurity, no analysis, and links which fail to support your claims. I'd further dissect your intellectual vapidity, but I'd prefer this be published instead.
Well..Ken..it is interesting that the latest's Dad referred to him as very devout..not perverted or in a cult.
Bruce J. Russell, Sr. said...
The fact is that Islamic extremists are the Islamic purists.
--
Well..Zhudi Jasser is a popular media "reform" Muslim against "Islamists". Trouble is, is organization has only recently put up a feeble several page attempt to reform Islam. It seems too USA in nature and thoroughly under powered to be a true reform of a religion so widely practiced.
While Trump Spews Hate, These Muslims Just Raised $100,000 for San Bernardino Victims. A perfect response to Islamophobia.
Amanda said...
You will thank me one day, mark my words.
We'd likely thank someone capable of intelligent comments.
There is nothing more boring than a bunch of old white men bitching to one another another about the bad liberals
Untrue, the most boring thing on the planet is reading discredited talking points for the 50th time by someone who believes you haven't heard them instead of realizing you rejected them.
I'm irritated by 14 years of Moslem terrorism inflicted on anyone who doesn't submit.
I noticed that yesterday after reviews of the Big O's speech (which I missed because of a prior commitment to arrange my sock drawer). The thrust seemed to be
..tech companies should...;
..moderate muslims should ...;
and I said "Yeah, but what are YOU prepared to do, Obama?"
Went looking for clips of Sean Connery's line from The Untouchables. Turns out the point there is that you have to be prepared to go beyond the law in order to get the job done - something we've had more than enough of from Obama, without result of getting the job done. Not a good thing.
So there you are. Government is incapable of protecting us without unacceptably limiting our Liberty. Leaving aside that we've gone WAAAAAY to far to honor "diversity" and tossed common sense in the winds for fear of giving offense - we get back to "responsibility for your personal safety lies not on the local police, not the state police, not the Feds, but with you yourself"...
...and for that to work you must have available the reasonable means of protecting yourself. Let us preserve and respect the Second Amendment.
Amanda: "While Trump Spews Hate, These Muslims Just Raised $100,000 for San Bernardino Victims. A perfect response to Islamophobia."
A better response would be not to murder Americans to begin with.
Oh, and perhaps cutting down on the sexual slavery.
And Beheadings.
And tossing homosexuals off of roofs.
But, ok, throwing some cash around is a "good start". One supposes.
"There is nothing more boring than a bunch of old white men"
Raaacist! Sexxist! Microaggression!
The compelling reason for non-radical Muslims to take the lead in "ratting-out" Muslim radicals is simple: under the current political correctness paradigm they're the only ones who can without risking the label ... Wait for it ... Racist!
Amanda: "Learn to love the opposing voice in your midst, it will make you grow as a human."
So that explains why the left is what it is.
The left does not allow opposing viewpoints on their websites. Or on campus. Basically anywhere they have control.
Fortunately, Amanda has helpfully explained that walling themselves off has led to leftists being stunted in their human growth.
Hence, the mass graves.
Makes a lot of sense really. Even better, it comes from the horses mouth. Testimony against interest such as this is not to be taken lightly and/or easily discarded.
Amanda, in what other ways have leftists failed to grow in your "learned" opinion? Not that we can't guess (duh), but it would be interesting to have a take from "inside the asylum", so to speak.
Amanda: ".....reminds you you're still alive."
You might have chosen a different phraseology given the close time proximity of your comment to the recent murder of Americans by the lefts favorite religion.
Then again, you might not, given your obvious sympathies.
What makes anyone here think that they don't spew talking points? Much of what you rightists put forth here are conservative talking points. Isn't it boring to hear the same thing everyone else is saying and thinking? Sorry to interject a liberal point of view, aka talking point, whatever the hell you want to call it. Some of the sheer inanity of commentary here on these threads needs some pushback. I know you don't appreciate it, that makes it all the more enjoyable. I won't give up on you rigid rightists though. I'll happily spend some time getting under your skin.
Robert Cook: "Rick, you shouldn't invent shit...it undoes anything you have to say."
Intriguing advice coming from an unhinged October Surprise Truther.
This is what I hear and can visualize when reading commentary from most of the commenter's here. It's classic Archie Bunker.
Amanda said...
"You may actually have a livelier conversation because of if and you may eventually come to enjoy the thorn (me) poking your side, reminds you you're still alive."
I do enjoy people who engage in a discussion. You do not do that.
"Learn to love the opposing voice in your midst, it will make you grow as a human. You will thank me one day, mark my words."
If you grow up and engage people who oppose your voice sure. But you are here with no intent of learning anything. You are just here to troll those stupid others you disagree with. You aren't doing god's work. You are a troll that thinks too much of herself.
If you want an example of a person of the left who engages and thinks consciously I have noticed Rhythm and Balls is here. He is what you should aspire to be. Your present incarnation is stupid.
"Amanda said...
While Trump Spews Hate, These Muslims Just Raised $100,000 for San Bernardino Victims. A perfect response to Islamophobia."
Progressives are "fighting Islamophobia" which is a euphemism for people that disagree with them politically here in the US. Muslims go shoot a bunch of people and you guys start fighting against Islamophobia. We know which side you are really on.
Isn't it boring to hear the same thing everyone else is saying and thinking?
Truth doesn't have to be exciting, Amanda.
I mean, I'm pretty sure I'm a liberal. But I do know that much.
Rhythm and Balls said...
I can't find disagreement.
But I do have a request for you. Please bring Amanda up to speed on how to be a useful intelligent progressive voice here.
"Amanda said...
This is what I hear and can visualize when reading commentary from most of the commenter's here. It's classic Archie Bunker."
She is waddling off into boring troll land kinda like Garage did.
Amanda: "This is what I hear and can visualize when reading commentary from most of the commenter's here. It's classic Archie Bunker."
Liberals/leftists "hear things" from fictional characters all the time. Nothing new here.
Amanda said...
"What makes anyone here think that they don't spew talking points? Much of what you rightists put forth here are conservative talking points. Isn't it boring to hear the same thing everyone else is saying and thinking? Sorry to interject a liberal point of view, aka talking point, whatever the hell you want to call it. Some of the sheer inanity of commentary here on these threads needs some pushback. I know you don't appreciate it, that makes it all the more enjoyable. I won't give up on you rigid rightists though. I'll happily spend some time getting under your skin."
When you walk down the street and you meet an asshole, he's an asshole. When you walk down the street and everyone is an asshole you are the asshole.
I tried to listen to Amanda's link, but it was drowned out by the chants of "Death to America" from the lefts beloved islamists.
I'll try again tomorrow when it is more peaceful. Perhaps a few minutes after morning prayers and the dust from the latest islamist murder clears.
Hey Amanda,
What is your take on this talking point from Dr. Weevil:
3. An example of what Muslims need to do was provided by the Unabomber's brother. When he recognized his brother's writing style and verbal tics in the manifesto, he called the FBI and suggested they investigate. He hated to turn in his own brother, but he did it because it was the right thing to do. I hope there are plenty of Muslims behaving the same way, and we just don't know their names because they prefer not to become targets themselves, but I can't assume that that's what's going on.
I wonder what the "Archie Bunker" character of the Islamic world might say?
http://news.investors.com/021215-739192-muslim-surveys-refute-obama-moderate-claim.htm?ven=schf&src=aurlhdz
But the I remembered that Norman Lear is Jewish, and we know what the islamists do to them.
All with the tacit and not so "tacit" encouragement of the lefties.
Interesting toi see the troll going on with total tolerance while moderation detracts from the site.
You get what you support, Ann.
Goodnight.
So, to recap, Amanda, while the blood from Americans who died at the hands of her islamist pals still stains the walls, decided it would be a peachy time to reference a Jewish writers show fictional character.
Would it be inappropriate for me to say that's chutzpah?
"Why aren't the open carry enthusiasts over in Syria fighting terrorists instead of waddling their fat asses around department stores in America?"
Oh Garage. You aren't even trying anymore.
Being accused of spewing talking points by someone too lazy to make her own arguments, or to reply to the (devastating) objections others have made to the ones she spews herself - I could call it delicious irony, but it's just tedious projectile commenting.
The only slightly interesting thing about "Amanda" is the question whether she is "Georgie" under a new name. I haven't seen him around much lately, and he still owes us all an explanation of how he could call the Colorado Springs shooter a "Christian terrorist" (and blame us all for supporting him) without being able to tell us what denomination the guy belonged to and what particular church he attended, how often and how recently. Perhaps Amanda can tell us "herself".
Archie Bunker's vision, or Jimmie Carter's vision?
A perfect response to Islamophobia."
The Unabomber was turned in because his brother believed his responsibility to protect his community was greater than his duty to his family. But Muslims and leftists believe their responsibility to their community is less than that due to co-religionists? Why would a community accept people who explicitly state they will not reciprocate this responsibility?
How is it liberals are so stunted they believe community responsibility is Islamophobia? Is it because they have no sense of community?
Amanda said... [hush][hide comment]
What makes anyone here think that they don't spew talking points? Much of what you rightists put forth here are conservative talking points.
I like Limbaugh's montages of talking heads on TV using exact same words and phrases assigned to them on the same news day. Funny shit, for sure.
I don't know about "conservative talking points" being assigned, but I do know many here think alike and post repetetive stuff. Of course, our talking points make sense,
am I right?
Yo B Amanda--stfu. I'm ("me") not an old white man, you sexist, narcissistic, imbecilic, self-deluded, fat-egoed, ugly-hearted brat.
Dude you have some serious, serious issues!
And knowing just what little I do about the men that are on this blog, I'm sure they are laughing their asses off over your pathetic, whiny, little 'threat.'
Well, except for Laslo, he's probably not laughing over it, he's probably umm, how do I say this delicately, enjoying himself as he reads and re-reads your desperate attention-seeking drivel.
BTW, here's a little glimpse of how the enemy, should we not properly vet them and let barbaric ones in, views you (warning, brutal, horrific crime scene pictures): http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/09/10/before-you-follow-pope-francis-command-to-prove-yourselves-worthy-of-him/
You can spout you are a good hearted, social justicey, non-islamiphobic prog all day and night, but I'm thinking the enemy doesn't give a whit what your views are.
But you know what? Even if they knew it was you, I can guarantee you any conservative man would put his life on the line and defend you from an attacker.
"What makes anyone here think that they don't spew talking points?"
Sorry Amanda, I'm not here to engage with you about whatever stray thoughts go through your broken mind.
How 'bout them Packers?
Amanda: It's classic Archive Bunker.
Ooh, pop culture reference.
Do remember that it was "Meathead," not Archie, that abandoned his wife and child to live in a commune with "Muffy," one of his students.
Muslims should police their own or expect collective punishment.
Oh so literal Achilles. I do not in actuality think I am doing God's work. I was trolling you, lol.
Lighten up grumpy old men.
For Garagette:
8 U.S. Code 1182 (f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
"Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. ..."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182#
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And Michael K:
Yes, Ms. Althouse asks for better liberal commenters and she allows garage, garagette, and cookie to set the standard.
I can see why she voted against Obama last election: The distaste she must have for those on her 'side' must be the reason she also developed anosmia.
Walter, I am all for Muslims reporting the radicalized amongst them. See something, say something. That goes for Muslims and Christians and any other group that perverts their religion to commit violence.
Michael K said...
"Interesting to see the troll going on with total tolerance while moderation detracts from the site.
You get what you support, Ann.
Goodnight."
The moderation as a tool is understandably necessary. In reality it creates a functionality that supports trolling.
This is actually a perfect anecdote to the current conversation. If you let just anyone in you have to start taking away freedoms. In the end the trolls end up giving Ann an excuse for increased vigilance which hurts conversations both in terms of spontaneity and quality.
Rather than going back and forth with R&B for several posts you have Garage/Amanda's latest spitwad dribbling down the page.
FullMoon said...
"I don't know about "conservative talking points" being assigned, but I do know many here think alike and post repetetive stuff. Of course, our talking points make sense,
am I right?"
The current moderation delay is causing a lot of over-response in my opinion. Trolls who post stupid things are getting a lot more attention because of this. Maybe Ann wants more clicks/posts.
Char Char Binks for no apparent reason wrote: Root hog or die.
I've encountered that phrase a few times, and still I don't know what exactly is being implied, though I am convinced that in many parts of the Muslim world its Root hog AND die.
Watch the embedded video at this site. This is what Obama wants to bring to America.
Amanda said...
Walter, I am all for Muslims reporting the radicalized amongst them. See something, say something. That goes for Muslims and Christians and any other group that perverts their religion to commit violence.
Apparently Amanda just realized what it is she's spent days arguing against. Whoops. Amusing though that she claims others are in a political bubble even though it is she whose ideology prevents her from understanding what others are saying.
I find it interesting that Amanda tied the KKK to Southern Christians. I was around back then and as a young college student even participated in a couple civil rights demonstrations. In my opinion what doomed the Klan was not the FBI nor the various civil rights groups. It was the realization among Southern Christians that they were being tarred as tacit supporters of the Klan. They wanted no part of that! It must be tough to live in a small Southern town where everyone shuns you because of the white robes and pointy hood in your back closet.
In a sense we're trying the same strategy with Muslims but it isn't working. The Muslim community plays the racist card and liberals and the press back them up. So we need to tell the press to STFU and we need to lean on the Muslims even harder. It they don't like it they can clean up the jihadists or be cleaned up with the jihadists.
"Cook doesn't actually engage. He lies, obfuscates and dissembles.
He's an ahistorical Stalinist with a slightly better than average vocabulary.
"He'll spout platitudes couched as 'wisdom'. But he's really quite ignorant and unable to support his arguments... So he really has no choice other than to lie, obfuscate, and dissemble."
Whoa! I sure got under someone's skin! Being a sore loser is not becoming, LM.
Rick, sorry you were unable to understand my argument. It wasn't that people shouldn't report extremists in their midst. The argument was that extremism is found in all religions, not just Islam. I can't help if you jumped to conclusions based on what you expect liberals to say.
"The argument was that extremism is found in all religions, not just Islam.'
Ever notice how fond lefties are of the "both sides do it" argument?
Amanda said...
Rick, sorry you were unable to understand my argument.
No need to be sorry. I understood your arguments better than you did.
The argument was that extremism is found in all religions, not just Islam
Right. You criticized others for an argument they didn't make because your left wing echo chamber caricatures conservative beliefs and you internalized their propaganda.
I can't help if you jumped to conclusions based on what you expect liberals to say.
How amusing. In reality though the order was:
1) Obama states he expects Muslims to report extremists just like everyone else.
2) Some Muslims object.
3) Conservatives support this expectation and point out Muslims are asking to be treated differently from everyone else.
4) Amanda freakout.
5) Mockery of Amanda for claiming this universal expectation is unreasonable to ask of Muslims, including noting she expects it of non-Muslims.
6) Amanda adopts conservatives position.
7) Amanda pretends others misunderstood her rather than admit she attacked them based on her misconception of their arguments.
Rick,
Amanda thinks you are overthinking what Amanda meant to begin with. You project what YOU believe I meant. It's obvious you have absolutely no clue as to what my argument was, even after I explained it to you. It's neither here nor there what you think I meant actually, especially after I wasted time explaining the obvious to you. There are so many closed minds here, more than I thought there would be when I first decided to comment here. This surprises me somewhat. I gave some of you more credit than you deserve.
Robert Cook,
Thanks for your inelligent and interesting comments. It's good to know there are a few people here who are not conservatives. Althouse put forth an invitation to liberals and non conservatives to comment, but what I've observed is that it doesn't sit well with the majority of the commentariat here. They claim they want high caliber liberals commenting, but from what I've read is that even intelligent and well spoken liberals such as yourself are denigrated as being unintelligent, ignorant, dissembles, etc. based on what appears to be an opposing viewpoint. I'm quite surprised to hear such vehement angry pushback, I think conservatives here have been accustomed to responding with insult to anyone that doesn't engage in conservative group think. I think it's time for some of the commentariat here to learn a bit of tolerance to the liberals in their midst. Who knows they might even learn a thing or two in the process. Any liberal who continues to comment here after months or years of verbal abuse by certain commenters here deserve a great deal of credit.
Amanda: Rick, sorry you were unable to understand my argument.
Amanda, there is no need to be continually apologizing to people because your devastatingly brilliant comments go right over our heads. You haven't done anything wrong; it's not your fault that you're so much smarter than everyone else around here.
We admit, you're way out of our league. You've striven manfully, but even you can't make a sturdy sow's ear out of our flimsy silk-purse cogitamatatin' organs. You did your best, and there would be no dishonor in returning now to the company of your intellectual peers on tumblr and facebook.
Oh what a relief Angelyne, I didn't want to hurt your feelings, but...
I like it here, I'll stay for a while, thanks all the same.
It's obvious you have absolutely no clue as to what my argument was, even after I explained it to you
You claim your argument was to rebut that only Islam has extremists, but who were you rebutting? This was no one's point. So when you write "I can't help if you jumped to conclusions based on what you expect liberals to say." I can't help but laugh since it is the perfect summary of your comments.
Some people are so far behind they think they're ahead.
There are so many closed minds here
Only yours.
I think it's time for some of the commentariat here to learn a bit of tolerance to the liberals in their midst.
It's highly amusing, and typical, that a left winger who admits she's trolling and contributes nothing but strawmen and insults nevertheless whines about how she's treated. I see this as a form of left wing privilege. Since the left controls so much of public life they presume the rules they enforce in their space should be the norm everywhere. So they expect to insult others and refuse to engage honestly even as they complain others don't treat them with the respect they believe they are due but don't offer.
Here's a tip: if you don't want to be treated like a troll don't troll.
Rick, sorry you were unable to understand my argument. It wasn't that people shouldn't report extremists in their midst. The argument was that extremism is found in all religions, not just Islam.
If that's an argument, it's one that's way too damn broad and open-ended to be meaningful.
Further, how is "extremism" wrong? Every activist is an extremist. Abolitionists were extremists. Civil rights marchers were extremists. It's a meaningless label for those of us who value living in a democratic, pluralistic, vaguely progressive society.
The problem with Islam is the doctrines. These doctrines are known, and they are mainstream: Jihad, taqiyyah, dar al Harb and dhimmi. While we have finally gotten the fact that those with the fundamentalist, literal interpretation of them can be called "salafists," that doesn't make a lick of difference unless "non-salafists" determine an authoritative way of reforming and/or completely doing away with those doctrines - as they are an unavoidable set-up for the sort of theological domination that no free, secular society should allow. The LAST thing we need to do is to make ourselves as helpless when it comes to defeating terrorists as 14 centuries of so-called "moderate" Muslims have made themselves while remaining so all the way through the present day.
No, we don't need advice from the mainstream Muslims who have not gotten anywhere close to defeating "radical" Islam on how to defeat radical Islam.
A pretty interesting and relevant exploration on the prospect of Islamic reform...here
"Robert Cook, Thanks for your intelligent and interesting comments...Any liberal who continues to comment here after months or years of verbal abuse by certain commenters here deserve a great deal of credit."
Well, thank you, Amanda.
Yes, it can be a trial sometimes, performing this often odious but always necessary task of bringing light where there is stygian darkness, applying Bon Ami and elbow grease in the effort to scrub away the encrustation of ignorance and its toxic effluviants...but a few of us carry on. Sometimes it's just a pain.
Call me Prometheus.
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