३० ऑक्टोबर, २०१५

"My little girl stood up to this entitled young man. She stood up to the entitled culture at St. Paul’s School."

"She stood up to the rape culture that exists in our society and allows ‘boys to be boys.’"

Said the father of sexual assault victim. The victim herself said: "What he did to me made me feel like I didn’t belong on this planet and that I would be better off dead.... Without just and right punishment, I really don’t know how I’ll put one foot in front of the other. I don’t want to feel imprisoned for the rest of my life. I want to be safe again. And I want justice."

The judge sentenced Owen Labrie to 1 year in prison, 5 years of probation, and a lifetime of registering as a sex offender.
The trial jury’s acquittal of Mr. Labrie on the main rape charges, three counts of felony aggravated sexual assault, led his lawyer, J. W. Carney Jr., to refer during Thursday’s hearing to what his client and the girl had engaged in as “a consensual encounter between two teenagers.”
Labrie was also convicted of the felony of using a computer to lure a minor, and for that, he received a 7-year suspended sentence.
The hearing closed a dramatic trial that illuminated the clubby sexual culture among some students at St. Paul’s School... the existence of secret keys, passed among boys, to private spaces on campus, as well as a list of girls Mr. Labrie had compiled, with the victim’s name in capital letters.

Both sides agreed that Mr. Labrie, then 18, had invited the girl, then 15, to join him for a “senior salute,” a practice in which younger students met seniors for a romantic encounter before graduation....
The linked article, in the NYT, used the word "girl" to refer to the victim 10 times. The word "boy" only appears twice in the article, in that quote from the father about our "rape culture" that "allows 'boys to be boys.'"

The word "man" also only appears in the article in a quote from the father, who calls him "this entitled young man."

But he was 18, and he did operate within a culture of entitlement that included preying on young women — girls. It appears that there were many other boys... young men... around him who did much the same thing and left their prey too hurt or embarrassed to come forward.

But how many poor boys have analogous stories of getting involved in gang behavior? Do we ask why the one boy who gets caught should go to prison and have his life ruined? I think we do not. We want the risk of the criminal behavior to be there, hanging over everyone, caught and uncaught, especially when so few are caught.
In her statement, the girl spoke of the isolating, suicidal thoughts and panic attacks that followed the assault. The trial itself, she said, traumatized her further.

“It’s terrible to say, but I know why people don’t come forward,” said the girl, who described feeling “physically and verbally violated” by Mr. Carney’s cross-examination.

७३ टिप्पण्या:

rehajm म्हणाले...

who described feeling “physically and verbally violated” by Mr. Carney’s cross-examination.

During discovery and leading up to trial defense teams make damn sure alleged victims know this is what will happen. too.

Meade म्हणाले...

Why isn't Bill Clinton a registered sex offender?

Bill Harshaw म्हणाले...

"life ruined" is too glib. While he and his parents may now see his life that way, in truth his life will be different, certainly, but he's many years to find a good way. The stories of people overcoming physical disabilities, addictions, etc. may feed our inner Pollyanna, but they can be true.

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

@Meade, it's a good question -- but was Bill ever convicted of a sex offense? (I honestly don't recall - but I don't think he has been).

I hope the young woman in question comes to realize that things that happen to her do not necessarily define her, or won't control her life. I say that as an old person, true. But I hope she can find someone who can convince her of this reality.

The teen years: How does anyone get through them unscathed? They don't.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

Why isn't Bill Clinton a registered sex offender?

Maybe if the kid stood up and stated publically that he was a Hillary! supporter they would have bought him a free ticket to Orgy Island.

Gusty Winds म्हणाले...

On the upside, Dad's used to pull out a shotgun or just beat the shit out of a kid like this, so maybe it is better in the hands of the courts.

I reality if he did this to my daughter I'd probably want justice as well.

Owen म्हणाले...

Can we hope that one deterrent effect of this sad case is that girls not accept invitations to engage in "senior salutes" or other similar activities? Unless Labrie physically overpowered the complainant, we are left again with the problem of "it takes two to tango." Girls have a responsibility as well, to recognize and avoid stupid situations.

MacMacConnell म्हणाले...

Who that attends St. Paul doesn't live in a culture of entitlement?

n.n म्हणाले...

Progressive morality has consequences. Profitable consequences. It's ironic that the people and groups who normalized and promoted this corruption are now offering solutions to repair the damage they caused. The State-established pro-choice cult is remarkable.

That said, it's illegitimate and illogical to characterize a class of individuals based on exceptions, not principles, not uniform behavior. The crisis, if it does exist, can be characterized by policies (e.g. anti-native policies, class diversity, politically favored congruences, pro-choice/abortion, planning/cannibalism) that denigrate individual dignity and debase human life.

I Have Misplaced My Pants म्हणाले...

Sorry, the time to "stand up to" was for the girl to scornfully say, "I'm not going in some dirty janitor's closet with you, you moron; what's wrong with you?" and go find her girlfriends to hang out with.

I'm sorry for the girl's anguish, but I can see the problem here in her father's attitude.



That's a bullshit mentality and does nothing to equip anyone, male or female, to go through life assertively and self-protectively.

She should have been taught from the time she was very small to have agency and strength over her own body, and over her reactions to the bad things that will inevitably happen to her.

I teach my daughters--from hard-won personal experience--that

*many males will have prurient interest in them, and
*how to spot it for what it is, and
*that their best bet in avoiding being taken advantage of is to avoid situations where it's likely to occur, and
*that their worth is so great and they are so precious (in mind, body and soul) that they never have to make room in their lives for anyone who treats them as less than deserving of respect and caring, and
*that even if someone gets through the above common sense filters or is a simple predator, that the most important healing will always happen inside their own souls, not through what happens to the other person, and that they never ever have to let that person or experience define their lives.

Birkel म्हणाले...

Romeo and Juliet must be a macro-aggression these days.

I Have Misplaced My Pants म्हणाले...

P.S. Dad, she's not a little girl. Stop treating her like one and referring to her as one. She's a young woman who has the capability to overcome this experience and become stronger and wiser as a result.

rocky77777 म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Unknown म्हणाले...

OMG . I FEEL SAD . I AM FROM INDIA . AND HERE FROM PAST 2 YEARS AFTER THE DELHI BUS GANGRAPE INCIDENT THERE IS A LOT OF AWARENESS ABOUT RAPE AND NOW RAPISTS ARE TREATED LIKE HELL HERE ! ONE RAPIST WAS MADE TO EAT HIS OWN FAECES .I HOPE THESE RAPES END AND MEN AND WOMEN START LIVING WITH EACH OTHER WITH LOVE . THE GAP BETWEEN THE GENDERS IS GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER :(

madAsHell म्हणाले...

2015-16 Cost of Attendance

Tuition, room and board $54,290
Mandatory fees $1,085
Estimated personal expenses $2,610
Estimated total cost of attendance
(not including travel) $57,985


Wow!!

We put the kids through private school. In hindsight, it was a complete waste of money. Scholarship is not enhanced by throwing around money.

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

She's a young woman who has the capability to overcome this experience and become stronger and wiser as a result.

Agreed. It sounds like Dad is trying to fix things, rather than giving his daughter the tools to fix things herself.

I'm not sure I'd not be doing the same thing in his shoes, but I hope I'd at least recognize what I'm doing might not be in my daughter's best interest. The syntax of that sentence is kinda tangled, but I hope the meaning is clear--ish.

madAsHell म्हणाले...

Sorry, I should have provided a link to St. Paul school tuition.

clint म्हणाले...

As with most news articles about trials, it's impossible to tell what happened. We have quoted conclusions that contradict one another and no description of any evidence.

This could be anything from a brutal rapist getting a slap on the wrist to a boy's life being ruined by a girl's embarrassed regret.

This paragraph is troubling:
That, Judge Smukler said, it was not [a consensual encounter]. The jury found that the girl had not successfully communicated a lack of consent, but “that does not mean the victim consented to the sexual penetration,” he said. “Indeed, it is clear from the impact of this crime that she did not.”

MadisonMan म्हणाले...

This paragraph is troubling:
That, Judge Smukler said, it was not [a consensual encounter]. The jury found that the girl had not successfully communicated a lack of consent, but “that does not mean the victim consented to the sexual penetration,” he said. “Indeed, it is clear from the impact of this crime that she did not.”

Yep, everyone with a son should make sure the son understands this kind of thinking. The lack of No, or a Maybe, or even a Yes, can become a resounding No in the future when the impact of the event is re-evaluated, especially if a parent is there to help.

Martha म्हणाले...

St. Paul's bears some responsibility. How could the adults supervising these sexually aggressive young men not be aware of the Senior Salute tradition and the consequences of an 18 year old graduating senior having his way with an inexperienced 15 year old young girl?
Owen Labrie was awarded the Rector's Award for outstanding character at his graduation days after the assault. How could St. Paul's be so oblivious.

I remember my prep school niece leaving a family dinner early to return to her prep school for annual dance for freshman female students and their senior male student dates. I asked my niece's father why he thought that was a good idea—even my 12 year old nephew was snickering about the set up.

bgates म्हणाले...

The lack of No, or a Maybe, or even a Yes, can become a resounding No in the future

This leaves men with two alternatives: living with the possibility that any apparently consensual sexual encounter in the past could be grounds for prison time in the future,
or celibacy.

On second thought that's not quite right - celibacy is no defense.

Tank म्हणाले...

@Clint

I saw that too. It is troubling.

It's always hard to tell from news accounts what happened at a trial, or in real life. News accounts seem always to get at least some facts wrong.

Larry J म्हणाले...

Owen said...
Can we hope that one deterrent effect of this sad case is that girls not accept invitations to engage in "senior salutes" or other similar activities? Unless Labrie physically overpowered the complainant, we are left again with the problem of "it takes two to tango." Girls have a responsibility as well, to recognize and avoid stupid situations.


Not any more, Owen. In today's environment, young women are not responsible for anything they do or allow to happen. Your observation would be met with loud screams that you're blaming the victim.

Sexual assault is wrong. Rape is a felony and even more wrong. Nothing excuses the assaulter or rapist. That said, it isn't unreasonable that young women learn how to avoid dangerous situations and how to defend themselves. That starts with learning to be aware of their surroundings (situational awareness). Those young college women who get stoned or blackout drunk are not "asking for it", but they've put themselves into a dangerous situation where they're unable to be aware of the situation. There are people out there who prey on others, either for a living or just for fun, and they are especially attracted to gullible, drunk, or stoned people who won't be able to fight back.

I Have Misplaced My Pants म्हणाले...

The jury found that the girl had not successfully communicated a lack of consent, but “that does not mean the victim consented to the sexual penetration,” he said. “Indeed, it is clear from the impact of this crime that she did not.”

I would find this attitude, frankly, more damaging and insulting to myself or my daughter than the actions of the young man.

It's ok honey. You're young and dumb and weak. We don't expect anything of you. You're passive; a male is active; you're receptive; a male is aggressive. Whatever happens to you is going to happen to you; come find a big grown up man afterward to tell you how to interpret the reality of the event and to decide on the right course of action.

I'd be furious if someone communicated that attitude to my daughters, that it was ok to be that passive; that our expectations are that low. For God's sake, did no one ever tell this girl that if you want a boy to stop touching you, you have to use your Big Girl Voice and say "STOP THAT," and if he doesn't listen, you scream in his face and knee him in the balls to get the point across?

Bryan C म्हणाले...

"My little girl stood up to this entitled young man. She stood up to the entitled culture at St. Paul’s School."

Nonsense. Frankly, if the defendant wasn't an "entitled" rich kid at an "entitled" fancy school I doubt we'd even see any charges filed. It certainly wouldn't be in the news.

Pregnant 15-year-old girls in boring, non-entitled urban public schools are too common to even be worth mentioning. Every one of those underage girls (or boys) is also incapable of consent, under the law, and every one is just as much a sex offender as this guy is. How many are charged? Should they be?

Those school administrators feel entitled to give out free birth control to their underage charges, actually encouraging a culture of statutory rape. How many of them are being charged, or jailed?

TreeJoe म्हणाले...

From a criminal law standpoint, the boy was old enough to be held accountable for activities done with a girl not old enough to make her own decision. Whether you agree with that law or not, let's accept that as it is. Fine.

But the idea she didn't consent doesn't hold up to the evidence. There is a very significant difference between not consenting and regretting.

More troubling is the effort to re-define consent vs. regret - diminishing regret clearly and hazily re-drawing consent.

I work in medical research where people consent to take part in a study and it's a major, structured, ethical process with multiple regulatory bodies involved. In that environment, a patient does not need to give ongoing consent to each subsequent study visit - the act of showing up is considered consent unless they verbally or in writing withdraw consent.

That's considered a LEGAL and ETHICAL consent process when peoples lives are on the line...

mccullough म्हणाले...

The father should have just thrown him off the roof where he brought the girl. Justice is always individual.

Owen म्हणाले...

Larry J: quite so. I have been following the trainwreck of "yes means yes" and its proper slogan should be "We'll tell you when you get to 'yes'." The premise is, as you say, that women lack agency and others (conveniently ready to step forward) must protect them from their own passivity, ambivalence or later regret. The companion premise is that "rape culture" suffuses every relationship and every encounter, down to the least kind word or gesture. The structure of this argument parallels exactly that of institutional racism.

I have many objections to this trainwreck but one of the strongest is its immorality. In claiming women are victims, it victimizes them. It turns the. Into passive recipients of state protection, to be administered by an ever-stronger bureaucracy and attendant rent-seeking activists.

Birches म्हणाले...

Sorry, the time to "stand up to" was for the girl to scornfully say, "I'm not going in some dirty janitor's closet with you, you moron; what's wrong with you?" and go find her girlfriends to hang out with.

Yep. This story bothers me a lot because apparently the school was supposed to TOTALLY know what was going on with their male students, but somehow, for some reason, this 15 year old girl wasn't warned off a Senior boy being interested in her by some of the other female upperclasswomen, whom I presume, would also know all about the Senior Salute as former victims. Girls talk. If this practice was as common as the media is making it out to be, then everyone should really be aware of the practice. Or are we implying that the other girls never said anything out of intimidation?

mccullough म्हणाले...

She said she didn't consent. That's enough evidence to convict. The jury didn't believe beyond a reasonable doubt that he raped her. But you don't need any corroborating evidence for the accuser's testimony. He's lucky to be alive.

Deirdre Mundy म्हणाले...

Wasn't she below the age of consent? That means that legally, she couldn't consent. And since the Senior boys were deliberately going after the young girls, part of the 'ritual' was statutory rape. Otherwise, Jr/Sr girls would have been OK targets.

Ken B म्हणाले...

"Do we ask why the one boy who gets caught should go to prison and have his life ruined? I think we do not. "

We should, unless we want to be a punitive society that offers no chance of reform or repentance. We want deterrence and punishment, but shouldn't we at least ask about anything that has lifetime consequences?

Owen म्हणाले...

Tree Joe: good point about the consent process in clinical trials (with which I have familiarity). Insofar as the "yes means yes" argument gains ground, I expect it to undermine the strength of the medical consent forms. Because if even "yes" doesn't mean yes when given by a traumatized, intimidated, confused woman (who then engages in what is commonly understood as normal human activity with, usually, no injury, disease or other unwanted physical sequelae) then how can "yes" mean yes for that same woman, or anyone, who then engages in a (by definition) unnatural act with sometimes-negative results?

Reaping the whirlwind here...

अनामित म्हणाले...

"This leaves men with two alternatives: living with the possibility that any apparently consensual sexual encounter in the past could be grounds for prison time in the future,
or celibacy."

I would agree if they were both adults, but this is statutory rape we are talking about

CStanley म्हणाले...

I find it hard to be aas absolutist as some of the commenters here.

IHMMP: I admire the way you describe teaching your daughters but I don't think it takes into account the variances in temperament and maturity at that age. Some children learn to assert themselves well, others by temperament have a much harder time of it no matter what the parents teach them. There's a need for the kind of example you are giving, but IMO that's far too black and white, and that's why we have statutory rape laws. Girls that age can't give legal consent because many or most of them do not understand the physical and emotional consequences of sex yet. Sure, they should be taught to say no, scream and kick if that doesn't work....but the law should protect them even if they failed to do those things adequately.

I think too many people are conflating this case with the college campus nonsense. These are high school kids, and the senior young men are preying on freshman girls. Consent has no place in that discussion.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan म्हणाले...

madAsHell said...
Scholarship is not enhanced by throwing around money.


Hallelujah.

Owen म्हणाले...

C Stanley: well said. I was focusing on the consent problem generally, and did not mean to suggest that the boy (man?) was not guilty of statutory rape. I am not a criminal lawyer but I imagine that offense is not mitigated much by claims of ignorance or trickery: "She told me she was eighteen!"

That said, the girl and her father are not free of blame here. She could have saved herself, and this poor bastard, a world of hurt if she had just said no. How hard would that have been? Really?

J म्हणाले...

I attended a combined high school and 2 year college, military boarding school 80% male. We had high school freshman and college sophomores together, which ended up how you expect. I knew plenty of girls (and was sometimes one of them) who thought it was flattering to hook up with the college guys. It's hard for me to imagine that the girl didn't know what she was doing, or didn't know any other girls' cautionary tales about the senior boys.

rcocean म्हणाले...

Why in this age of "I am women hear me roar" women can't simply "communicate" that they don't consent to sex. Here's an idea, if some guy tries to assault you, you scream, you slap you face, you knee him in the balls, etc.

What the hell is he going to do? Go to the cops?

What's really happening is that all these teens are engaging in sex, and the liberal teachers either tolerate or approve of it. "They're just having fun" "they're just teens" "it can't be stopped". So now we're in the same situation as the colleges where bad sex = rape. Or yes= no or no= yes depending on how the girl feels after the act.

Roughcoat म्हणाले...

Was making out with my girlfriend at the drive-in when we were both 16 a felonious act?

CStanley म्हणाले...

How hard would it have been? Really??

Obviously you have never been a 15 year old girl. Look, plainly it was stupid for her to have gone with him. But I think it's ridiculous to think that a 15 year old girl off at boarding school isn't vulnerable to a popular senior boy.

The parents absolutely should have warned her, and she should have listened. Like every one of us should have heeded all kinds of warnings from our parents, and didn't? Sometimes you don't know until it's too late, and at that age this comes with the territory.

IHMMP presented it as though the father is reinforcing weakness in the daughter. I don't know, maybe the way he talks about is open to that criticism, but pushing for charges doesn't have to be presented that way. Instead, it could be presented to the girl that she made a serious mistake and should learn from it, but she was put in a position that she wasn't ready to handle and the law should address the person who took advantage of that situation.

CStanley म्हणाले...

Birches and Jessica- I think you ignore the extent to which some girls are socially isolated. As a former shy kid, I imagine there were all kinds of things that went on at my high school that I was not aware of, and in fact there were things I became more aware of later. As a Freshman, I certainly wouldn't have been in a position to be warned by an upperclass girl, and if rumors did filter down I probably wouldn't have believed them.

I'm obviously not aware of this girl's social situation, but I'd put me hey on the side that she wasn't in with the popular crowd, and probably feeling isolated.

CStanley म्हणाले...

Me hey = money

Real American म्हणाले...

@Roughcoat - did your gf sign a permission slip first?

Roughcoat म्हणाले...

Real American,

She'd usually get things going by unzipping my pants. I construed that as permission. Of course, I could have told her to stop.

Yeah. Sure. Sure I could.

Sebastian म्हणाले...

"living with the possibility that any apparently consensual sexual encounter in the past could be grounds for prison time in the future"

Indeed.

" I am woman hear me roar"

After the fact, in court, with a lawyer by my side. Or before the college hearing panel, with no attorney on the other side allowed.

The infantalization of girls is the reductio ad absurdum of feminism.



rcocean म्हणाले...

I assume the verdict will be followed by a lawsuit and a nice payoff for the girl and her family.

Birches म्हणाले...

@ CStanley

This isn't a 1500 person HS. It's a HS of 525 which boards their students. One can argue about prosecuting for statutory rape because of the age difference. But then, one must also acknowledge that the sentence and prosecution has no bearing on whether or not the sex was consensual; it has everything to do with (usually) parents who want someone to pay for the deflowering of their daughter.

Martha म्हणाले...

Owen Labrie had dated the freshman girl's sister who was his age and a senior at St. Paul's. I assume he never raped the older sister. But he behaved like a predator toward the 15 year old sister.

The men commenting here are minimizing what this 18 year old male did. Sex is not a game for inexperienced girls. This was not a relationship. Owen Labrie set out to "slay" the freshman using every trick he could. He called himself "Sleazy Labriezy". Does Labrie deserve to be labeled a sex offender? I think so.

CStanley म्हणाले...

Birches, I'm not following that. Do you disagree with the statutory rape concept in general, or is your objection specific to this case?

Also don't know why the size of the school is relevant. My high school was less than 500 students, but I still didn't know most of what went on because I was so introverted.

Birches म्हणाले...

@ CStanley

I'm merely juxtaposing this use of Statutory Rape to prosecute a kid some people see as a predator and the more common use of using Statutory Rape because Papa didn't like that his daughter was having sex. Both kids get the same punishment. And I'm wondering why society think one should be eliminated and one should be punished more. If one thinks a 15 year old is not old enough to consent, then it should be consistent all the way around, not just because some kid is a dbag and planned a conquest. Because then the law boils down to, well, it's a criminal offense because the girl didn't enjoy it or the aftermath. To me, that's getting awfully close to the idea of hate crimes, which I do not agree with. Personally, I find all instances of teenage sex immoral and wrong, but then again, I'm not in favor of prosecuting them. If the kid raped her, then get him for rape. If 15 is too young to consent to sex, then let's get extra DAs and start churning out justice for all.

Birches म्हणाले...

One of my best friends had a boyfriend in 7th grade. He could drive. Eventually they had sex twice and then he broke up with her and never saw her again. Should he have been prosecuted for his awful behavior? Or only if he made a list?

Birches म्हणाले...

Another one of my friends also had a boyfriend in 7th grade. He said unless she had sex with him he would break up with her. She broke up with him and never looked back.

CStanley म्हणाले...

OK Birches, I think I see your point and can agree somewhat about the distinction between what is immoral and what should be illegal. But since rape is based on absence of consent and I really don't think young teens are capable of anticipating their own reactions to sex and therefore incapable of giving consent, I think that statutory rape should remain on the books but enforced with discretion. The keeping of a list, if it really is part of a pattern of predation, in my estimation would warrant prosecution if the victims were willing to come forward.

And of course some of the "similar situations" posited by guys here really weren't similar at all (Roufhcoat describes a situation without age imbalance, and describes the other person as his girlfriend so clearly there was a relationship and not predation, etc) so of course those are the situations which should not be prosecuted even if Daddy found out and was displeased.

I Have Misplaced My Pants म्हणाले...

I had overlooked the statutory rape angle. I've used up all my free views so I can't go back and read the article again to get clear on that. Was it statutory rape, or was he protected by a romeo & juliet age clause?

At any rate, I take your well-stated points, cstanley, and I certainly think that his behavior was vile, but boys/men like that are all the MORE reason for girls to be raised to know the difference, as best they can, between honorable males and cads* and to know that they are too important to be treated like meat a la Sleazy Labriezy. Sending their young daughter to boarding school without this training, and then bleating after the fact that the criminal justice system is responsible for repairing the damage, was a grave mistake on the parents' part in my opinion.

This is just as important with introverted bookish girls, because they and their lack of savvy can make them extra vulnerable. To use my own daughters as an example, my oldest is autistic and completely uninterested in boys/femininity, and her younger sister is gorgeous, outgoing, popular, and already batting away boys in the 7th grade. I have the same talks with both of them because while the issue is more immediate with my social butterfly, eventually my oldest (who is beautiful in her own way too) is eventually going to attract the attention of some boy, probably in college, and she needs to be prepared as well and not be blindsided by male attention which may or may not be honorable.

*just as we should prepare our sons to know the difference between honest, sensible girls and Emma Sulkowicz, and to spend time with the former and avoid the latter

MayBee म्हणाले...

Why do we assume boys are so good at knowing what they are doing? The awkward boy who thinks a girl wants to have sex with him, but stops before they actually have sex. They fumble around in a janitor's closet. Boys can be confused about what's going on and what to do, too!
The problem with all of this is it takes the humanity away from individual boys and men. Assumes they are all pick up artists and sex savants.

CStanley म्हणाले...

I agree with all of that, IHMMP. I think part of the problem I have in accepting when things should be considered immoral but legal, is that we've had Sudan erosion of other institutional and cultural forces to effect moral behavior. I think more and more, the ability to distinguish between creeps and decent guys gets harder when all of our kids are struggling with the new "modern love" rules.

The Godfather म्हणाले...

As I understand it, the jury acquitted Labrie of rape, but convicted him on four (?) misdemeanor sexual assault charges. They also convicted him of the felony of using a computer to lure a minor. It's the latter that I want to focus on. Apparently, this is based on his having invited the girl to their meeting by email -- is that correct? So that if he had dropped her a note, or whispered in her ear, but had otherwise done what he did, he would not have been guilty of a felony, and would not have to register as a sex offender? Is this really what this statute is supposed to be about?

If you really know about this issue, I'd sure like to hear from you.

Birches म्हणाले...

I think more and more, the ability to distinguish between creeps and decent guys gets harder when all of our kids are struggling with the new "modern love" rules.

All the more reason to scrap "Modern Love" rules.

Beach Brutus म्हणाले...

As a law blog my concern is the judge acknowledging that the jury acquitted the young man on the rape and felony sexual assault charges, but explicitly disregarded that at sentencing. See quoted paragraph from the article above:

"This paragraph is troubling:
That, Judge Smukler said, it was not [a consensual encounter]. The jury found that the girl had not successfully communicated a lack of consent, but “that does not mean the victim consented to the sexual penetration,” he said. “Indeed, it is clear from the impact of this crime that she did not.”

richard mcenroe म्हणाले...

This was well-understood math in my youth. If you're 18, 16 will get you 20. Simple equation.

richard mcenroe म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
अनामित म्हणाले...

Punishment is fine, but it makes sense at some point to ask if the punishment fits the crime. I don't happen to think that an incidence of a teen getting caught up in an encounter that a jury has found not to be rape and not to be sexual assault deserves being on the sex offender registry for life.

Larry J म्हणाले...

"Blogger richard mcenroe said...
This was well-understood math in my youth. If you're 18, 16 will get you 20. Simple equation."

Jimmy Buffet sang about it in his song, "Livingston Saturday Night".

"Fifteen will get you twenty
Well that's all right
Rocking and a rolling
On a Livingsyon Saturday Night."

Martha म्हणाले...

Buzz feed this summer during the trial:

After Labrie’s friends were done testifying, St. Paul’s Dean of Students Chad Green took the stand. Green read aloud a “standard bearer contract” he said Labrie signed in order to become an official student leader and spoke of the sex policies and “age of consent” training Labrie received.

The entire point of St. Paul's School Senior Salute was to commit statutory rape. Labrie knew the rules but chose to break the law.

Labrie changed lawyers rather than accept a plea deal that would have kept him off the Sex Offender Registry and required only 30 days in jail. The victim would not have been required to testify publicly and relive her ordeal in front of a smirking Labrie.

Owen Labrie still does not believe he did anything wrong.

MayBee म्हणाले...

cyrus83- the sex registry is a joke. Actually, a crime

MayBee म्हणाले...

Owen Labrie still does not believe he did anything wrong.

Owen Labrie was convicted of misdemeanor sexual assault plus a felony count of using a computer to lure the girl to a sexual encounter. The felony conviction is absurd, considering he himself is a teen and a peer.

I can see how he might think he didn't do anything criminal.

The Godfather म्हणाले...

@ Martha, do you know the source of the info about the plea bargain that Labrie supposedly rejected? I'd be surprised if any of Labrie's lawyers disclosed such (presumably) confidential information.

Martha म्हणाले...

According to the Boston Globe:

Merrimack County Attorney Scott Murray, whose office prosecuted the case, said Friday that he believes the most recent deal offered to the 20-year-old Labrie called for a 30-day sentence.


https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/10/30/convicted-prep-school-grad-had-nixed-lighter-sentence-deals/qqWm4xAK9vUXBcJcvbKPfO/story.html

Martha म्हणाले...

and WPTZ.com October 30:

Merrimack County Attorney Scott Murray said Friday he believes the most recent deal offered to 20-year-old Owen Labrie called for a 30-day sentence and no sex offender registration.


http://m.wptz.com/news/owen-labrie-rejected-deal-with-lighter-sentence/36160042

Joe म्हणाले...

So, I actually read the various articles. I can see why jury failed to convict; both teens sound full of shit, taking their side to an unbelievable extreme.

The Godfather म्हणाले...

Thanks for the information @ Martha. I'm surprised that prosecutors are allowed to disclose such information while there's still a possibility of a new trial. This does lend support to the notion that the actual sentence is too severe.

Birches म्हणाले...

Doesn't seem like quite the entitled man, the media makes him out to be. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/caitlin-flanagan-real-sin-st-paul-rapist-article-1.2418160?cid=bitly