Althouse: "The Smashing Trumpkins."

September 5, 2015

"The Smashing Trumpkins."

"Billy Corgan applauds Trump for ‘f—ing’ up the political class."

61 comments:

Wince said...: "Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage."

The world is a vampire, sent to drain
Secret destroyers, hold you up to the flames
And what do I get, for my pain?
Betrayed desires, and a piece of the game

Even though I know - I suppose I'll show
All my cool and cold - like old job

Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Then someone will say what is lost can never be saved
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage

Now I'm naked, nothing but an animal
But can you fake it, for just one more show?
And what do you want?
I want to change
And what have you got, when you feel the same?

Even though I know - I suppose I'll show
All my cool and cold - like old job

Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage; 9/5/15, 7:37 AM
Michael K said...: "Actor Owen Wilson made similar comments last month when he praised Trump for “not following the script.”

Wilson, after the awful movie he made and which I had the misfortune to see 30 minutes of last week, should shut the f up.

It's called "No Escape" and is best avoided.; 9/5/15, 7:42 AM
Eric the Fruit Bat said...: I'm pretty sure that just about anybody can be a politician. You only have to get involved in politics and that's not much of a barrier to entrty.

So I'm not quite sure what all this talk about "political class" is about, as if were something immutable and pernicious.

But it's good to see that Mr. Corgan retains the worldview of somebody who made himself rich by channeling his inner child and setting it to music.; 9/5/15, 8:19 AM
harrogate said...: "and it's best avoided."

Speaking of things best avoided, near the top of the list would be assholes who want revolution: "I have even been saying that we need a revolution, and maybe it is coming."

Even worse than the tone and content of this keyboard warrior's "thoughts" is he seems to think he can spew this type of bile and then turn around and say he didn't, or he is being misunderstood, or it's the fault of the person who noticed him saying it.

No wonder he likes Trump. They have more than a little in common, stylistically.; 9/5/15, 8:36 AM
Sebastian said...: Riight. Barry and Valerie and Susan and Kerry and Jeh Johnson and John Koskinen and Gina McCarthy and Mark Pearce and Richard Cordray and Melvin Watt and Tony Kennedy are quaking in their boots.

Populist hot air only solidifies control by the real political class. Of course, it is not clear Trump and the Trumpkins want it any different.

For entertainment purposes, it's more fun to "tell it like it is" to third-rate radio hosts or candidates who lack energy.; 9/5/15, 9:07 AM
harrogate said...: Also it's sort of entertaining how "telling it like it is " or "speaking your mind" seems to mean, via Trump this time, hatefulness. If you are preaching hate and being a dick to anyone who questions your ideas then you are speaking from the heart. An odd conception of honesty, that. Wrong too.; 9/5/15, 9:15 AM
Phil 314 said...: Don't be Trump chump.; 9/5/15, 9:17 AM
Michael K said...: "turn around and say he didn't, or he is being misunderstood,"

Creepy stalker, how about a link or a clip of what you accuse me of ?

Other commenters on that thread don't believe you. Is this some sort of catharsis you are having.

Have you lost your job ?

Did your wife (or husband) leave ?

I'm starting to worry about you.; 9/5/15, 9:27 AM
harrogate said...: If you could read you'd see I gave you your precious link. It's just I knew you were lying and dislike people calling for political violence and so I talked about it . If you don't think these things then why do you write them, Mr. Man?; 9/5/15, 9:34 AM
harrogate said...: Trump has a lot of appeal for those who would like to do political violence in the U.S. To be sure, he has appeal to other kinds of assholes too, but he's basically made the "don't tread on me" nutjobs a particular niche all his own.

Corgan is a great musician but he's being very naive here. It's sad to see. But at least he is not Ted Nugent.!; 9/5/15, 9:40 AM
Michael K said...: OK harrogate, I see what you are after.

"I gave you your precious link."

No prominent Republican challenged the ruling class’s continued claim of superior insight, nor its denigration of the American people as irritable children who must learn their place. The Republican Party did not disparage the ruling class, because most of its officials are or would like to be part of it.

I assume you want this is be the permanent situation. You hope to attach yourself to some ruling class individual and ride to a position you could not attain on your own.

Well, there are revolutions and revolutions. I would like to see one in the behavior of the political class. I fear what we will have instead is a violent revolution after the country is wrecked by you leftists.

And no, I do not like Trump who I consider to be a fool if not worse.

I'm not the only one concerned, but of course, you cannot understand. I can only wonder at the hatred you seem to have for those who disagree.

It's not healthy.; 9/5/15, 9:47 AM
harrogate said...: Did you notice that I directly quoted you saying "we need a revolution"? Gee I know it's a lot of words but if you're gonna pretend to talk about things then at least take your head out of your nethers.

I don't hate "those who disagree." I do hate political violence and those who defend it .; 9/5/15, 9:50 AM
harrogate said...: "There are revolutions and then there are revolutions."

Spin away, dude. I promise I won't bring this up again. Your brand of idiocy is not so deep as a well nor so wide as a church door. But it's enough. It'll do.; 9/5/15, 9:52 AM
Michael K said...: " I promise I won't bring this up again"

Good. This hatred is bad for your health.; 9/5/15, 9:58 AM
chickelit said...: harrogate opined...Speaking of things best avoided, near the top of the list would be assholes who want revolution

You meant assholes like Louis Farrakhan, didn't you?; 9/5/15, 10:27 AM
harrogate said...: "You meant assholes like Louis Farrakhan, didn't you?"

Not a Farrakhan fan, no. Do I share more of his concerns than, say, Trump's or Walker's? Absolutely. But I do see him as open to violence as a corrective. Which makes him an asshole.; 9/5/15, 10:40 AM
MayBee said...: I don't want political violence.

My husband, a life-long Democrat, and I agree: we don't care for Trump's ideas, but we do find his choice to say what's on his mind without apology refreshing in politics.; 9/5/15, 10:51 AM
harrogate said...: People are always celebrating that he "says what's on his mind" and it's true that this is another way of lamenting what liars most all politicians are. But most all of us have that Drunk Uncle who also "says what's on his mind" and what's on his mind , as with Trump, is fucking stupid. (Ok maybe in some cases it's not the Uncle.)

Full disclosure: there WAS one moment with Trump that I found legitimately refreshing. It was during the debate when , after being attacked again and again he just came out and said, gesturing with both arms across the stage of stooges, 'I've given all these people money.' That was fun.; 9/5/15, 11:00 AM
buwaya said...: News today - third month in a row of new record numbers of firearms background checks - the highest months since 1998
Jun- July - August 1.5, 1.6, 1.7 million.
I doubt most of these people are buying guns because they are fun alternatives to golf.; 9/5/15, 11:01 AM
Titus said...: I want drama and chaos-go Trump! I like that he goes after everyone.

tits.; 9/5/15, 11:01 AM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "Not a Farrakhan fan, no. Do I share more of his concerns than, say, Trump's or Walker's? Absolutely. But I do see him as open to violence as a corrective. Which makes him an asshole."

Oof. Is there some kind of Leftist stylebook for writing faint-hearted condemnations of the lunatics that Leftists actually encourage. That harrogate doesn't understand how his quote above invalidates any criticism he makes of Trump is pretty amazing.; 9/5/15, 11:08 AM
harrogate said...: Gee Cracker was it not a "strong enough condemnation" for you? This really saddens me.

But see, sometimes you agree with people on some things and deplore other things about them, including what they seem to think are the solutions. Unlike Trump, I don't labor under the delusion that the strongest possible attack, every time, is good rhetoric.; 9/5/15, 11:21 AM
Michael K said...: Harrogate seems to be stalking me for some reason and I have others things to do so I will be around the internet but elsewhere.

My comments about "revolution" were about posts on this blog. I am very concerned about a violent revolution and have posted such concerns on my own blog but did not realize he/she would go there looking for something.

If anyone is interested, I have sent the last couple of days converting some old lectures on medical history to blog posts. They are Here.; 9/5/15, 11:21 AM
Laslo Spatula said...: Our Political Class does not fear the People.

Gotta keep the political violence card in the deck.

I am Laslo.; 9/5/15, 11:23 AM
harrogate said...: Hey Laslo if you ever pull that card from the deck are you sure it's the "political class" you'll go full Laslo upon?

I am damn sure not Laslo.; 9/5/15, 11:31 AM
RecChief said...: Billy is behind the time, the fucking up of the political class started long before he was born. One thing Laslo has correct, the political class doesn't fear the People, as it should. That fear would keep them in check.; 9/5/15, 11:38 AM
harrogate said...: Please elaborate on who makes up the "political class" in your mind. Surely it's not exclusive to the men and women who court elected offices?; 9/5/15, 11:40 AM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "Gee Cracker was it not a "strong enough condemnation" for you? This really saddens me. "

It's all good. The important thing is that you share more of a racist lunatic's concerns than, say, Trump or Walker.; 9/5/15, 11:56 AM
harrogate said...: Cracker, you don't think blacks in America face institutional barriers? You don't think the police treat them differently? You really believe anti-black racism has ended and now it is just a grievance industry? Or can you not perhaps see where some of these concerns are truly valid?; 9/5/15, 12:02 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: Harrogate,
Good Lord, no. The whole edifice of Democrat Party power is built on the continued exploitation and holding down of African-Americans. Slavery, Jim Crow, destroying the Black Family, flooding Black urban areas with drugs, abortion, fostering grievance instead of achievement, patronizing tolerance for the Black lunatics and extremists who serve the Democrats agenda while dragging Blacks further down, you name it, White liberals have not missed a trick.; 9/5/15, 12:21 PM
chickelit said...: harrogate said...
Cracker, you don't think blacks in America face institutional barriers? You don't think the police treat them differently? You really believe anti-black racism has ended and now it is just a grievance industry? Or can you not perhaps see where some of these concerns are truly valid?

Harrogate's apologia for Farrakhan is almost althousian in its reflexive defense of anything black. The thinly veiled defense of Farrakhan is beyond the pale.; 9/5/15, 12:26 PM
Bricap said...: The donor class running against the political class, it could be. Not sure why Corgan is relevant. Away from this, I never cared for his self indulgent catalog, either.; 9/5/15, 12:47 PM
BN said...: Paraphrasing someone (who was it, i wonder, and what happened to him?): you might not be interested in revolution, but revolution is interested in you.; 9/5/15, 12:47 PM
Anonymous said...: Populist hot air only solidifies control by the real political class. Of course, it is not clear Trump and the Trumpkins want it any different.

Sebastian, your comments are sounding more and more like one of those "cuckservative"/"conservapundit" twitter troll accounts.

Keep 'em coming. Good stuff.; 9/5/15, 12:56 PM
harrogate said...: I'm sorry that so many people who are in good faith really seem to believe that the complaints of BLM are all fabricated. I guess it's like the popular meme, White people get to say what is racist and what isn't. They know best.

Speaking of political violence , meanwhile, when Trump supporters violently attack "one of them Mexicans," it's a safe bet he will respond by saying "well, my supporters are very passionate." Classy , that.; 9/5/15, 1:10 PM
harrogate said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/5/15, 1:14 PM
chickelit said...: I'm sorry that so many people who are in good faith really seem to believe that the complaints of BLM are all fabricated. I guess it's like the popular meme, White people get to say what is racist and what isn't. They know best.

It started with "hands up don't shoot" didn't it, which was a fabrication. The problem as I see it is that legitimate grievances exemplified over and over again with bad examples. Why make the guy killed in Ferguson into a hero? Why make the guy who slammed the guy's head into the pavement in Florida before getting shot into a hero replete with Presidential commentary? Even if I were completely on your side, I'd advise you to choose better examples to defend and that includes the thoroughly reprehensible Louis Farrakhan.; 9/5/15, 1:19 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Lirbuls like Harrogate desperately cling to the race card. It is about all they have left.

Populists like Trump offer one main thing - competence which is the demonstrated ability to fix things. No one in the political class can claim the competence card.; 9/5/15, 1:25 PM
harrogate said...: Chickelit, fwiw I agree those were bad examples indeed to bring up to make this point although in the case of ferguson we did learn that there is a long and disturbing history in terms of how law enforcement treats people of color there. And certainly the way police handled those protests raised a lot of red flags for people across the political spectrum, including many conservative commenters on these boards.

Whatever the case, there are to date many many "examples" we have seen that taken together , at the very least suggest we need to be looking a lot more closely at how our police officers are behaving towards black citizens.; 9/5/15, 1:27 PM
chickelit said...: And certainly the way police handled those protests raised a lot of red flags for people across the political spectrum, including many conservative commenters on these boards.

As I recall, riots were the immediate aftermath which are intrinsically hard to control.

I am still bothered by the Bosnian man hammered to death. That seemed to be clear-cut case of racial hatred.

Crickets from the media regarding the fallout and aftermath.; 9/5/15, 1:31 PM
harrogate said...: You're right that incident did not get the attention it deserved.; 9/5/15, 1:33 PM
chickelit said...: @harrogate: If you go back to the first night of the Ferguson rioting, you'll find an account of a Washington DC reporter live-tweeting or live blogging from a McDonalds restaurant. Of course he whined about his "civil rights" when the restaurant tried to close down early (along with free WiFi) that night in order to safely allow their employees to get out of harm's way. That event triggered me. The journalist (I believe he was black) obviously had no sympathy for the working poor at that restaurant. I can find the link if you want.; 9/5/15, 1:36 PM
chickelit said...: And hopefully that reporter has slunk back into obscurity...; 9/5/15, 1:38 PM
harrogate said...: But riots were not the "immediate aftermath." We saw on camera people standing around yelling things and the police facing them in riot gear . Whenever black Americans try to speak for their political rights , they have extra pressure to not seem "too excited." Hell, the media fawned all over black Americans in charleston for not rioting. Which was grossly insulting .

These are American citizens , you know, whose life experiences have led them to the conclusion that the police are a threat to their very right to live. That they must be extra careful around police and even then it is not always enough. And yet a litany of people look at those arguments and wave them away dismissively . Also grossly insulting.; 9/5/15, 1:40 PM
Fernandinande said...: harrogate said...
Cracker, you don't think blacks in America face institutional barriers?

You didn't ask me, so I'll answer: No, it's just the opposite.

You don't think the police treat them differently?

Yes; the police are more likely to shoot white people.

And when black cops go to the wrong address and shoot an unarmed white guy in his own house and also shoot each other and kill his dog, the MSM and most websites don't mention anyone's race, much less harp on it for months. (an exception))

You really believe anti-black racism has ended and now it is just a grievance industry?

Pro-black racism exists in every level of gov't, as well as in most private businesses, especially those with deep-pockets.

Or can you not perhaps see where some of these concerns are truly valid?

What concerns?; 9/5/15, 1:42 PM
Michael said...: Harrowgate

I am sad too that you missed the real civil rights movement. I am sure you would have been there risking yourself. Positive. Maybe even front row.

Marching on the internet is easier. Supporting fools easier still. But you can still seek out and find those who believe they are in Selma. They are not. You are not.; 9/5/15, 3:47 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "White people get to say what is racist and what isn't. They know best. "

No, White liberals get to say what is racist and what isn't. And every single choice they make enhances their power and leaves Blacks further in the shit. There will come a day when Blacks are no longer willing to exchange their dignity and their lives for government cheese. On that day the harrogates of America will insist that, really, it was all done with the best of intentions.; 9/5/15, 4:01 PM
Paco Wové said...: "And yet a litany of people look at those arguments and wave them away dismissively"

Because they think "those arguments" are bad. See Fernandinande's post above for examples of why.

An argument's earnestness is in no way correlated with its accuracy.; 9/5/15, 5:14 PM
Paco Wové said...: "I knew you were lying and dislike people calling for political violence and so I talked about it"

On reading the provided link, it seems as though Harrogate is intent on characterizing Michael K's words as calling for violent revolution, even though that is by no means clear, or even likely, based on reading what Michael K actually wrote.

Michael K really seems to make you angry, Harrogate. Why is that?; 9/5/15, 5:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Dismissiveness is bad. Except when it's done to the "don't tread on me" nutjobs.; 9/5/15, 6:34 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 9/5/15, 7:38 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Why make the guy who slammed the guy's head into the pavement in Florida before getting shot into a hero replete with Presidential commentary?

So says a guy making a hero out of a clearly violent sociopath who implies that he'll shoot anyone that "hits" him after conveniently winning a trial against the last person he did that to. Thanks to a key source for any evidence that he didn't personally approve of being conveniently shot dead and buried.; 9/5/15, 7:46 PM
RecChief said...: harrogate said...
Please elaborate on who makes up the "political class" in your mind. Surely it's not exclusive to the men and women who court elected offices?

Absolutely not, it's also the people who buy those men and women. And don't think I am thinking exclusively of Tom Steyer. It's a cesspool on both sides in the binary system we have. Especially right now.; 9/5/15, 7:46 PM
chickelit said...: So says a guy making a hero out of a clearly violent sociopath who implies that he'll shoot anyone that "hits" him after conveniently winning a trial against the last person he did that to. Thanks to a key source for any evidence that he didn't personally approve of being conveniently shot dead and buried.

Show me a link to where I made a hero out of the guy whose head was slammed into the concrete. You're projecting, R&B. I have in past lionized many people here and elsewhere, but they tend to be important or forgotten scientists and artists or the like.; 9/5/15, 7:57 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: By persistently saying "head slammed into concrete" as a substitute for his name you're making a not-so-sly attempt to promote him as a martyr. I'm not sure that's the exact same thing as a "hero" (so congratulate yourself on slipping away on another technicality if you must) but it's damn close.; 9/5/15, 8:24 PM
chickelit said...: I use the graphic language of "slamming his head against the concrete" because a cousin of mine died that way in a bar fight in Wisconsin. I recalled that scene (I did not witness it) when the Florida story first broke. I may have been more acutely aware of its lethality as a weapon because of it.; 9/5/15, 8:40 PM
Bleach Drinkers Curing Coronavirus Together said...: Sorry to hear that.; 9/5/15, 8:48 PM
Interesting,not crazy said...: harro...
fwiw I agree those were bad examples indeed to bring up to make this point although in the case of ferguson we did learn that there is a long and disturbing history in terms of how law enforcement treats people of color there.

Cannot imagine why cops treat blacks different. Let's go down to the hood after dark and observe the racist cops in action.

Any cops been ambushed by AA's lately?

What are the chances of an AA carrying a gun?; 9/5/15, 9:20 PM
furious_a said...: ...m to believe that the complaints of BLM are all fabricated.

If the Left can blame Sarah Palin for Gabrielle Giffords getting shot, then the Right can blame #BLM for Deputy Goforth's execution slaying.

Goose. Gander. Sauced.; 9/5/15, 10:46 PM
Achilles said...: The reason the left and Obama chose violent thugs like martin and Ferguson guy as examples was because they want white people to think of black people as a block group of people like martin, and they want black people to think of all cops as racist killers. The media and Obama feed off of division and hatred. That is why they are promoting it.

If Black people took a step back and looked at who is ruining their lives they wouldn't vote for progressives anymore.; 9/6/15, 3:01 AM
Phil 314 said...: I generally don't agree with Harrogate's views but I'm impressed that he stayed in the conversation, admitted where he was wrong and still stuck to his convictions. Yes a little insult early but better later.

That was in definite distinction from R&B, ad hominem is his stock in trade.; 9/6/15, 10:11 AM