Mindfulness in an elementary classroom, brought to you by the Center for Investigating Healthy Minds and...hip-hop?
Posted by University of Wisconsin-Madison on Wednesday, August 19, 2015
Great... or... too religion-y?
१ सप्टेंबर, २०१५
Teaching children "mindfulness" in public school?
Great... or... too religion-y?
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That's nice, but will they be able to read, write, and do math?
Looks like a religious practice to me.
Aside from academic performance, an appropriate metric should be the reduction in use of drugs to chemically level the kids.
I wish they would teach them the times tables by rote and thoroughly instead. That would better their future and make everything else academically easier for them.
But that would require effort.
Religion.
False Grackle
Nana nana nana nana Lea-der!
Leader Leader — Lea-der!
Mindfulness is not religion. It is focusing on what you are doing, very intently. A focused mind is a happy mind.
Think of it as a reset for your brain. When the human brain was developing, it was a luxury to be able to focus on the task at hand, rather than having to scan the environment constantly for food, shelter, or predators. As a result, our brain sees the times that we are focused as a time of safety and tells itself that stress responses are not needed, that our body and brain can relax. Our brain can't really tell modern stresses from the stresses from existential threats. It's all very taxing on your brain.
Meditating is not the only way to be mindful. You can do yoga, you can color, you can be engaged in some other kind of project. As long as your brain is kept from wandering, you are being mindful.
I don't know if it needs to take up school time, but I bet if they can get the kids to do it, it calms them down. It would be a good tool, I think.
Why aren't they calm? I thought that's what recess was for. Run around and play, expend some energy, come back, and get to work.
So, what is the objective of teaching this, and how do you measure whether (1) the children have learned it, and (2) what value they have derived from it?
I don't really care if it's religion-y (in a secular way) but, could a psychologist distinguish between those who had the training and those who had not, without being told?
If not, I'd question whether it has value. Using the time for dodgeball or something would at least provide exercise and release some energy.
Well, the idea would be to teach children *how* to focus so they can use that as a tool when presented with math problems and language skills. I'm not an expert, but it seems to be that reading a book would involve too much imagination to be truly mindful.
OK, people. Say they did it for 10 minutes a day. Do you still think it's a bad idea? What do you not like about kids learning to sit still and focus?
Mindfulness isn't meditation. In fact, they're pretty much opposites. In meditation you essentially lose your mind; at least, it becomes as blank as possible. In mindfulness, you're supposed to concentrate minutely on every physical sensation around you.
I'm not a devotee of either, NB, but distinctions must be made. So far as I can see, the only thing they have in common is sitting still with your eyes closed. Granted, as that's all the public sees ...
I had high hope when I read they were teaching "mindfulness". But now that I've seen it my reaction is, "this too shall pass". I doubt we will be seeing this much in practice. Check in a year later and see the results. Makes a great seven minute video, but it always fades into ineffective nothingness. I'd like to be wrong.
We may be just seeing the Hawthorne effect.
MDT- Mindfulness is absolutely mindful meditation.
You are saying one is mediation and one is not, but in reality they are two different types of meditation.
My concern with this would be that some students might use that time for private prayer to Jebus and we can't have that.
Mindful of the little prisoners in their prison garb.
Didn't the monks practice mindfulness by transcribing scripture, and coloring it beautifully?
I have seen the future, and it is nitpicking.
After watching the video, I would say all the time the kids are spending on the song and the music video seem like a bigger waste of time than the mindfulness practice itself.
So many teaching experts! Why can't people just teach the way commenters on blogs and politicians think it should be done. They know exactly how to handle a classroom!
Do I think it's harmful? No. Is it a waste of time? Maybe - it depends on the kid. Is it religion? Yes. Wikipedia says:
"Mindfulness is the intentional, accepting and non-judgmental focus of one's attention on the emotions, thoughts and sensations occurring in the present moment, which can be trained by meditational practices that are described in detail in the Buddhist tradition.
The term "mindfulness" is derived from the Pali-term sati, "mindfulness", which is an essential element of Buddhist practice..."
There's 2 references to Buddhism in 2 paragraphs. Religion. No one in their right mind would consider class-wide prayer acceptable in public school, so why should this be okay?
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In the still image, the kids appear to be holding their hands in a funny position, perhaps indicating meditation or gang activity.
Are "They" misusing a word to obfuscate?
Noun 1. mindfulness - the trait of staying aware of (paying close attention to) your responsibilities
mindfulness noun Cautious attentiveness
I think it's not religious just like singing isn't religious, even though Christians sing in church. The content, not the act, would make it religious.
Sounds like too many pupils are turning up with ADD and no one knows how to sit still and focus anymore. You can smell the desperation!
And I don't know why so many bien pensants think Buddhism as some kind of groovy non-religion. Oh because Buddhists don't believe in a supreme being. That makes it "safe" I guess. Like Jack Kerouac considered himself a serious Catholic, but went all Buddhist-y nonetheless.
It's total intellectual dilettantism.
Teach them how to reason. Then, get them to understand that thinking and reasoning are volitional acts that require constant effort.
Then, in good time, they can make their own choice about the value of mindfulness, and everything else.
I like that they brought in the artist. Sweet scene that the kids will remember.
It seems like they're simply training the kids to get in the mood to listen. Transitions in 5th grade aren't easy.
Mindfulnesslessness would be the opposite.
"Why aren't they calm? I thought that's what recess was for. Run around and play, expend some energy, come back, and get to work."
Aren't a lot of schools eliminating recess?
Opening the human spirit by concentrated self hypnotism efforts that practice a blanking out one's mental censors is a familiar gateway to occult wisdom and all of its little friends. Just calling it a physical exercise doesn't change where you end up.
The idea that this is done in a government school to further the enlightenment of children and increase their
learning skills is a big fat lie. It is done to escape the hold of rational material world and connect to the spiritual world. It is an initiation.
UW - teaching stupid stuff since 1848. Interestingly, the same year as the Communist Manifesto. Causation or Correlation?
What a fabulous video. Way to go UV-Madison!
The Freedom From Religion group'll be chiming in any moment now, right?
mindfulness is a variation of Hindu prayer, transcendental meditation, the Jesus prayer/prayer of quiet, and is a variation of hypnosis.
Hypnosis is not "sleep" as many think, but deep concentration. About ten percent of people can be easily hypnotized. Some people find their psychological defenses are destroyed by mindfulness and panic to the point of psychotic breaks.
Ah, but why worry if teacher hypnotize kids? Anyone? Anyone?
I am a physician and yes, I used hypnosis in my practice.
Any groupy regimentation of children, whether for prayer, pledges, anthems, oaths, meditation, yoga or mindfulness is objectionable. Smart is the kid who learns early to step out of line.
Regimented kids are the kind who will grow into adults who dutifully stand for public prayers and the Star Spangled Banner, and who say "So help me God."
If this were actual mindful meditation I would call it stupid. Perhaps dangerous. I have meditated 20 minutes a day for 25 years. i do not recommend it for children. But this is not that. This is making kids be quiet and sit a certain way for a picture or a video.
Check back in six weeks. Ponder the consciousness of children. Can you conceive of a value to children of this age engaging in pure focus? This is torture.
I would personally like to slap the shit out of the person who thought this up. Slap them with zen like mindfulness honed carefully after decades of practice. I would make it hurt. I would make them focus on that sting.
"Just take a deep breath" is standard and usually good advice in times of stress. Since most days have times of stress, learning some kind of relaxation technique is an important social skill. But once again it is apparently a social skill that the school must take over because the kids lack it coming in.
I have a very vivid memory of what we might now call a "mindfulness" event from my very traditional grade school in the very traditional mid 1950's. In physical education, once we had gotten all jazzed up running around and doing something or other, they had us like down on mats on our backs with arms and legs extended. We were told to relax our bodies one portion at a time--toes, feet, lower leg, leg, torso, fingers, hands arms, etc etc. It was an all boys school and of course we mocked the idea. But after a few tries it became obvious that it felt great. I specifically remember that one effect was that we breathed more deeply and slowly. The mind relaxed along with the body. It was blissful.
We spent about 5-7 minutes a day on this for what seemed like an extended period of time. Then they discontinued it but not without a little speech and an admonishment to do this kind of thing on our own. It's always stuck with me and has been useful for my entire life.
But we did this with one teacher for 7 minutes as part of the regular school day. Look at the apparatus they have put together to do something similar. Outreach specialists, graduate trained mindfulness experts, phds and psychiatrists and probably various supervisors and measurers of results. Not to mention lawyers if anyone thought to ask. It's no damn wonder that our schools are paralyzed and believe that they are underfunded. Something simple and useful has become elaborate and expensive.
And it's hard to escape the thought that much of this is created by people who are trying to find more ways to employ more people in an educational bureaucracy.
It's not fair to conservatives unless they teach mindlessness, also.
Our culture is choked with horseshit.
Any groupy regimentation of children, whether for prayer, pledges, anthems, oaths, meditation, yoga or mindfulness is objectionable.
I am sure lessons in growing up to meet your standards are in wide demand. You should make a blog, I am sure it will be wildly popular!
I just remember teachers always telling me "pay attention."
Why do people think that "mindfulness" is somehow a facet of Hindu or some other seemingly exotic discipline or belief? This is a universal human practice, often ignored or set aside but quite universal. (I am now reading about the Plains Indians, whose various habits easily come to mind.)
Nancy Reyes,
Hypnosis is not "sleep" as many think, but deep concentration. About ten percent of people can be easily hypnotized. Some people find their psychological defenses are destroyed by mindfulness and panic to the point of psychotic breaks
I was a teacher in Germany who got in trouble for hypnotizing a kid. The school administration wanted to prosecute me for "Eindringung in die Persönlichkeit" [probably because Freud was a Jew] Fortunately, the enlightened father of the kid would not coöperate.
You're right that hypnosis is not akin to sleep. It's hard to hypnotize a person who's inebriated or inattentive. I do find, however, that way more than 10% of adults and most all children can be hypnotized. Many animals, including lizards, can as well. I've hypnotized chickens many times, but the mechanism no doubt differs from that in humans.
There's 2 references to Buddhism in 2 paragraphs. Religion. No one in their right mind would consider class-wide prayer acceptable in public school, so why should this be okay?
Some Buddhist traditions also encourage vegetarianism and both that and Christianity advocate non-violence. Perhaps we should ban vegetables from the cafeterias and allow physical violence in the curriculum.
Just because a religion or two was smart enough to advocate something that was later shown through scientific secular means to have other benefits, doesn't mean we abandon the practice. It's a reductio ad absurdum to pick through religions and consciously choose to avoid something on a non-sectarian basis just because a religion was into it also.
Or otherwise, we could tell kids it's wrong and overly judgmental to oppose murder, theft, lying, etc., as those things were prohibited by Moses.
By the way this appears to be a very small class. How do they pull that off? Or is it a handpicked group for the video?
Buddhism is considered by many to be some sort of doorway to a soothing afternoon by the trickling river or a nice long gaze at raked gravel. Kinda yoga but kinda not. It is not that. Young Buddhists scrub floors, dust rafters, carry the slop.
Mindfulness is not Buddhism. What these kids are doing is not meditation.
We live in a therapeutic age, an age desperate for easy answers. They are not available.
We used to read a psalm to start the school day. I dare say it was more culturally relevant than mindfulness, but it is possible that I've underestimated the degree to which modern education has irrelevant and dedicated to the mystic BS of the day.
Please tell me this is a parody video. First clue: NOBODY in real life up-talks like the lady narrator.
It reminds me of the story of Euclid and his patron Ptolemy I. Having been educated by Aristotle himself Ptolemy respected learning and hoped to be known among the Successors as a great patron of the sciences. To that end he founded the Royal Library of Alexandria and collected the best scholars to catalogue and expand the knowledge to be housed there, among them Euclid, the greatest mathematician before Archimedes. While in Ptolemy's service Euclid wrote the Elements, the foundation stone of all higher mathematics to the present day. Ptolemy wanted to boast that he understood at least some of what was being produced by the Library, so he commanded Euclid to personally tutor him in geometry. Euclid began his lecture with his ten axioms, which bored and confused the king. Ptolemy interrupted Euclid and demanded the shorter, easy version, "Cut to the chase, Euclid," in effect.
Euclid regarded his patron in silence for a pregnant moment, and replied, "Sire, there is no royal road to geometry."
This "mindfulness" stuff is just more royal road bullshit. Professional educators have been chasing mirages for decades now. Mindfulness is just the latest example.
Professional educators, by that I mean Masters of Education and Doctōrēs Educationis, have the dubious distinction of holding advanced degrees in a field of study that has about as much relevance to reality as divination or phrenology. They've exercised a stranglehold on public education in this country for nearly 70 years, and all they have to show for their "expertise" is ever-increasing decline in academic achievement. If engineering were as immune to the principles of science as education evidently is, there wouldn't be a bridge safe to cross or an office tower safe to work in.
Every year that passes American students test lower and lower against their peers in other developed countries. Even students in developing nations like Nigeria are outpacing the average American high school senior. Professional educators are always quite willing to tell you why this has happened. First they point to their incomes as insufficient. Next, they'll blame the parents. After that they'll sound off about "cultural" issues. (Bilingual classes, "ebonics," this hip-hop thing is just a rehash of the ebonics lunacy.) And they have the studies to prove their claims. Of course the studies that shift the blame from the profession of eduction to neglectful parents or popular culture or ever-insufficient funding are produced by the professional educators themselves and peer reviewed by same. Professional educators can no more be trusted for objectivity about education, than astrologers can be trusted for objectivity about the planets.
Faced with failure after failure educators have grasped at many straws over the years. I think we all remember the Mozart Effect from about 20 years ago. Yeah, make 'em listen to the Piano Concerto No. 21, that'll fix 'em. This mindfulness crap is just warmed-over transcendental mediation, except that it's likely to be even less effective than the original version, which was, other than the waste of money and time, mostly harmless. In this case they propose to waste those precious hours of a child's critical brain growth when the intellectual habits of a lifetime are irrevocably set. It takes a graduate degree to think of something this stupid and counterproductive.
They have replaced religion/morality and education with drugs and indoctrination. Children who resist the social programs are reeducated and flogged to within an inch of their dignity.
harrogate: "So many teaching experts! Why can't people just teach the way commenters on blogs and politicians think it should be done. They know exactly how to handle a classroom"
So when will you be signing your children up for their "expert" approved ebonics training?
Next thing we should do is to ban reading The Odyssey or else the kids will end up worshipping Greek gods and that would be wrong.
I read The Illiad to my son when he was five. He fell asleep to violent poetry every night.
Rhythm and Balls: "Next thing we should do is to ban reading The Odyssey or else the kids will end up worshipping Greek gods and that would be wrong"
Hey Hey Ho Ho Western Civ has got to go!
If there is one thing the lefties hate, it's those Dead White European Males!
Can't have too many of those guys, which includes Homer no doubt!
Next thing we should do is to ban reading The Odyssey
As if banning The Odyssey or any of the classics would be any different in effect from the standing policy.
"Or otherwise, we could tell kids it's wrong and overly judgmental to..."
define marriage as man/woman?
Clearly there are cross-examples of objectionable religious practices. Who is the arbiter of religious practices in public school?
Next thing we should do is to ban reading The Odyssey or else the kids will end up worshipping Greek gods and that would be wrong.
It takes a special mind to equate the study of classics as literate with the teacher-led practice of an actual religious ritual in a public school classroom, specifically the aggressively average mind. Rhyme and Balls, just one of millions who think being on the top of the normal distribution curve is a good thing.
The orange shirts immediately reminded of Isis thugs executing prisoners.
Look, R&B accidentally said something true: "It's not fair to conservatives unless they teach mindlessness, also."
It certainly is unfair that conservatives have to be taught mindlessness, when R&B and his leftie buddies do it naturally and effortlessly.
Again, schools teaching things the parents should be teaching already (and supplementally by church, scouts, etc.)
As critical as I am about schools and teaching, parents are the last line of defense against dumbing down in the culture, media, schools, etc.
Why have today's parents outsourced parenting?
Clearly there are cross-examples of objectionable religious practices. Who is the arbiter of religious practices in public school?
Probably the culture.
When you're on the losing side of a battle that keeps gaining against your position with every year, and represents the side that isn't trying to deprive people of rights that others take for granted, it's fair to admit defeat and concede to the side that is the cultural, not religious, norm that can no longer be applied to your opposition to it - as much as you wish it could be.
It takes a special mind to equate the study of classics as literate with the teacher-led practice of an actual religious ritual in a public school classroom...
When more non-Buddhists in America than Buddhists appropriate a practice, it's fair to say that it's been co-opted for secular purposes. As less-than-average as your mind is, I'm sure even someone as special as you can appreciate that. Learn to accept the concept of something being secularized.
But then to do that, you'd have to admit that there is no "War on Christmas," either. Just a holiday that's been largely secularized away from its awkward religious roots. Nothing you can do about that, either. Especially in an explicitly secular country that managed to make said holiday into a federal celebration.
...one of millions who think being on the top of the normal distribution curve is a good thing.
I'm sure it would beat being at the bottom of it, where you reside.
You really could make a career out of being mistaken, couldn't you?
Quaestor: "Rhyme and Balls, just one of millions who think being on the top of the normal distribution curve is a good thing."
R&B: "I'm sure it would beat being at the bottom of it, where you reside."
LOL
And R&B's proceeds to step right into it anyway. Too funny.
R&B, just how many std deviations to the right of the mean would you say Quaestor happens to be?
For R&B's, as it was with bbkingfish earlier today, the "maths" is hard!
I guess now would be a bad time to recommend Asimov's "The Imaginary That Isn't". That would likely send R&B fully over the cliff.
Of course, if obama trying his hardest to hand a nuke to the Iranians won't get R&B to focus and learn, nothing will.
For whom the bell (curve) tolls ......
Mindfulness is new age bullshit.
Since you're as full of shit as Trump and Queesor it's not surprising you thought you were pretty clever to confuse right and left also. The long, lagging tail of it.
Just go away. You're like a douchebag covered in a turd, wrapped in a brown bag on fire.
But it must be hard. I get it. If you don't jerk yourself off, no one else will, Drake. Bloating your own ego is the only protection you have against acknowledging how much of an asshat everyone else in life thinks you are.
Tell us again about how you're your own #1 fan.
There's enough hot air in your skull to raise a Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade float.
If anyone else is bored by the guy in this picture, don't be surprised or feel bad. The guy bores himself. That's why he chose the picture.
Imagine what it must be like to be him!
Suicide can't be far away - if he were a better person. But no, I suspect he intends to make everyone else feel how boring he is, also.
He thinks it makes him a better person. Not just boring, but insufferable! He'll make you suffer also. No way he's going away, or keeping his shit to himself. He can't stand to!
That's quite the series of responses curve-boy!
R&B's: "Since you're as full of shit as Trump and Queesor it's not surprising you thought you were pretty clever to confuse right and left also"
That's the spirit curve-boy!
You never said "right" or "left". You said "bottom".
LOL
Tell us curve-boy, in a normal distribution, which side is "down"? And how does "down" in a normal distribution relate to "left" or "right".
This should be good.
Tell us curve-boy, do you often get ticketed for making illegal "top-hand" turns?
Are you top-handed or bottom-handed?
It's pretty clear that in this thread, R&B's is certainly on the "right" of his game.
Curve-boy: "You're like a douchebag covered in a turd, wrapped in a brown bag on fire."
Hmmm. More Ward than Winston I fear. Much, much more.
So what sort of consultant are you? A consultant for comedians who want to learn how to not be funny?
Ladies and Gentlemen, the next evolution in traveling salesmen who have killed themselves: DRAGO!
Rather far afield from mindfulness now.
Drago's rather special brand of mindlessness will do that.
Plus his assist from Quaestor and the presumption that distribution curves have no tails.
We should be "mindful" that contra Curve-Boy, we should not spend time referring to the tails of a normal distribution as the "bottom".
Let us recall:
Curve-boy: "I'm sure it would beat being at the bottom of it, where you reside."
LOL
I do congratulate curve-boy. It only took him about 30 minutes to figure out that normal distributions really don't have a "bottom".
I suppose we should also be happy that R&B's didn't fall off the "back" of the curve!
I wonder how R&B's would react if he encountered a non-normal distribution?
I bet that would be a bit of a "curve-ball" for him.
Well, it appears we have hit the "inflection" point for this thread.
Thanks R&B for being such a good sport as to beclown yourself for everyone's amusement!
That's going the extra mile and we are particularly grateful to you for picking up the slack for garage.
Not too religion-y, too New Age-y.
Ladies and Gentlemen: Autism Speaks.
And it says that the opposite of Quaestor's "top" may not be called "bottom".
Please remember that your donations will go to help the socially handicapped. The collections box will say "consulting fees" but that's just to help the special people feel less stigmatized.
Forget teaching math & English. Your employer will catch you up with that when you get your first job @ $15/hr. What horse shit...
Thanks R&B for being such a good sport as to beclown yourself for everyone's amusement!
Apparently the only person who was amused was you, Rain Man.
But that's ok. Let everyone else talk about the merits of meditation while you run around like an autistic chicken on methamphetamine with your goddamn head cut off.
Understand that mathematical anal-retentiveness isn't necessarily your friend! It's just that no one else is.
Away now. Mom's basement awaits you.
I wonder how R&B's would react...
To what? Punctuating the subject of a sentence like an asshole?
Only losers who cackle about "bottoms" being NOT opposite to "tops" would do something like that.
But I get it. You're a stickler for proper mathematical terminology when it comes to responding to a joke, but not when saying it wrong in the first place.
Being able to speak, however, escapes you. As does having a life.
Meditate on that.
Hammond,
"NOBODY in real life up-talks like the lady narrator."
Wow, your universe is a much better place than mine.
When I was a kid in the sixties, I attended Catholic school where we were compelled to attend many, many religious ceremonies. Now I was a hyperactive kid, if I were going to school now, the would pump me full of Ritalin till I was glassy eyed. Fortunately for me, Sister Mary Redempta would just give me a good smack when I acted up. It hurt, but it beat being stupefied.
Anyway, I found religious services excruciatingly boring. I didn't disbelieve in God in those days. I just wondered why it made God so happy when 12 year olds were writhing with boredom.
I also wondered about the adults involved. I would think, "Hey, we're kids. They make us do this. But the priests and nuns could be home watching TV and eating ice cream. Are they crazy?
When that dopey teacher hit that little chime, it brought it all back. Sorry kids. I know you're bored but adults ARE crazy.
Ah, R&B's triples down, as you knew me must.
I feel bad for curve-boy, who still doesn't understand, so a quick recap and then off to real work:
Quaestor: "Rhyme and Balls, just one of millions who think being on the top of the normal distribution curve is a good thing."
R&B: "I'm sure it would beat being at the bottom of it, where you reside."
The "top" of the normal distribution curve is the mean curve-boy. The average.
You, in attempting to be clever though not succeeding, thought that "bottom" in a normal distribution was an insult, but failed to recognize that asserting Quaestor was at the "bottom" of the curve could imply he was a genius. What you apparently missed in "Stats for Lefties 101" (you were no doubt the one in class wearing the "Just Visiting" sign) is that your "insult" was just as likely not an insult. Well, to anyone but yourself.
So if you want to continue to believe that "Top" (Average) in a normal distribution really means the opposite of "Bottom" in a normal distribution, carry on. We will all enjoy the show.
In terms of probability, it's highly unlikely any amount of meditation can fix that sort of ignorance.
R&B's: "But I get it. You're a stickler for proper mathematical terminology when it comes to responding to a joke, but not when saying it wrong in the first place."
Quaestor didn't say "..it wrong in the first place."
He was clearly placing you at the mean of the distribution and and then asserting that you think that is a good thing.
But keep spinning and don't be afraid to show your work in how you derived the idea that the tails of a normal distribution are the "opposite" of the mean.
Time set aside for prayer....no. Time set aside for "mindfulness"...A-OK...
As far as meditation in school goes, lefties gonna lefty. It's no more complicated than that.
Scott McKenzie might have said it best:
"There's a whole generation
With a new explanation
People in motion
People in motion"
The "new explanations" are all wrong of course. But at least the "new explanations" aren't what Dead White European Males came up with!!
One of the most entertaining of threads. R&B in rare form trying to wriggle out and not knowing whether to turn left or right or up or down. Super.
He delivered some first rate sophomoric ad hominem. Hilarious.
He can pack a thousand words into a ten word response.
"Class, Pay Attention!"
There. We're done with our Mindfulness lesson for the day.
Seriously, kids that age usually aren't ruminating on their past or future to the degree that they are missing the Present. That's for later. At that age, they should be teaching the teachers.
Funny how far East Asians(Japanese, Koreans, Chinese) have no problems in academics. You don't hear about discipline problems or issues of learning the 3 Rs. Not only that but they learn advanced poetry too.
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