Althouse: "Talking with my teammates, they gave me the confidence I needed... They said, 'You're still our teammate. You're still our brother."

१६ ऑगस्ट, २०१५

"Talking with my teammates, they gave me the confidence I needed... They said, 'You're still our teammate. You're still our brother."

"'We kind of had an idea, but your sexuality has nothing to do with your ability. You're still a ballplayer at the end of the day. We don't treat you any different. We've got your back.' That was a giant relief for me... I never wanted to feel like I was forcing it on them. It just happened. The outcome was amazing. It was nice to know my teammates see me for who I am, not my sexuality."

David Denson, the Milwaukee Brewer and the first openly gay baseball player.

EMD called attention to that in the previous comments thread. I didn't realize none of the baseball players had identified themselves as gay yet.

Oh, wait a minute. He's not even a major league player! I don't even know why this is news. A minor league player is openly gay? Good lord, the lack of social progress surprises me sometimes. Haven't we done this already? Wake me up when the many gay major leaguers break their silence. That Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article is long. For a minor leaguer!

३६ टिप्पण्या:

furious_a म्हणाले...: Wake me up when the many gay major leaguers break their silence.

Haven't you heard? The whole sport is gay.; १६/८/१५, १०:१७ AM
Jason म्हणाले...: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXacL0Uny0

All is proceeding as the prophets have foretold.; १६/८/१५, १०:२३ AM
Jason म्हणाले...: Seriously, why the fecking feck would this be news at ANY level of play? Who gives a rat's ass?

I swear, the capacity of gays and their advocates to obsess over their penises and what they want to do is boundless.; १६/८/१५, १०:२६ AM
Mark म्हणाले...: Why this obsession with knowing people's sexuality?

Meanwhile, ask Michael Sam how, instead of being a football player focused on football, his whole "hey, I'm gay" thing has worked out. After receiving nothing but cheers and adulation for his "brave" coming out, he just announced he's leaving football for mental health reasons.

You want to treat people right? Then get over this obsession with knowing about their personal lives. Don't use them like pawns for your purient and ideological purposes.; १६/८/१५, १०:२६ AM
Emil Blatz म्हणाले...: Any gay bowlers on the Pro Bowlers Tour?; १६/८/१५, १०:२८ AM
Paco Wové म्हणाले...: "Good lord, the lack of social progress surprises me sometimes."

Many things in this world surprise me, but I have to say that "lack of social progress" would not even make the top 10.; १६/८/१५, १०:२९ AM
Gahrie म्हणाले...: I wonder if there are any gays on the LPGA tour?; १६/८/१५, १०:३७ AM
Gahrie म्हणाले...: Good lord, the lack of social progress surprises me sometimes."

Because of course, no social progress will occur until gays dominate every aspect of our society.; १६/८/१५, १०:३८ AM
Hagar म्हणाले...: I will be happier when we get back to people keeping their sexual inclinations to themselves.; १६/८/१५, १०:४० AM
Real American म्हणाले...: Coming out to your teammates: personal.
Coming out to the media: political.; १६/८/१५, ११:०१ AM
Michael K म्हणाले...: " Who gives a rat's ass?"

Exactly ! Who cares except the SJWs ?; १६/८/१५, ११:०५ AM
geokstr म्हणाले...: Most of the gay professional athletes are in the women's leagues: basketball, golf, soccer. Though not pros, softball is another hotbed of lesbians. They appeal to the masculine tendencies of the butches (the ones who play the males in lesbian relationships.)

I question the Professor's contention that there are "many" gays in male pro sports like football, basketball and baseball. Given that less than 2% of males self-identify as gay, and there are 750 major league baseball players, that would mean approx <15 might be homosexual.

But as the bigger, tougher, stronger, nastier, highly competitive, more testosterone-laden lesbians might gravitate to sports that would emphasize those characteristics, what would be the attractions to the average gay male of sports that emphasize strength, power, violence and physical confrontation?

Sure, there certainly are gays who would enjoy and excel at those sports, but it's like saying there are women who could pass the same physical tests, without first chickifying the requirements, as men for Navy Seals, firefighters, policemen, et al...but there are very, very few of them. I would contend that a much larger cohort of the 98%+ of heterosexual males is competing against a much smaller % of the much smaller gay male population for the same jobs with the expected results.

Of course, the current player-safety trend in the NFL and the onerous restrictions on defense are leading us to the NFFBL - the National Flag Football Ballet League, so that could change everything.

:-); १६/८/१५, ११:२० AM
Unknown म्हणाले...: Yes we're over it. Shut up already. Starting a while ago you're piling on. Most people never cared. Some who were indifferent are forming new opinions, and they're not the opinions you want to provoke.; १६/८/१५, ११:३६ AM
Sam L. म्हणाले...: That Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article is long. For a minor leaguer!

He's GAY; why else?; १६/८/१५, ११:३८ AM
Birkel म्हणाले...: Those 2% of players will make a big difference. Or why I stopped caring about the rhetoric and started loving the curveballs.; १६/८/१५, ११:४१ AM
Sebastian म्हणाले...: "That Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article is long. For a minor leaguer!"

Anything for the cause. Sports have been somewhat immune from Prog infection, but that bastion is now being breached.

"Don't use them like pawns for your purient and ideological purposes."

Sweet thought, but beside the point: Progs need pros as pawns.

"Good lord, the lack of social progress surprises me sometimes."

True, there are a few areas of American life still somewhat undisturbed by Prog obsessions and control, but as the article indicates, "progress" is marching on.

Won't be long before professional athletes will be required to prove Prog purity as a condition for playing.; १६/८/१५, ११:४७ AM
Clyde म्हणाले...: How'd that work out for Michael Sams?; १६/८/१५, ११:५५ AM
Wilbur म्हणाले...: Do you really believe there are "many" gay major leaguers? My life wouldn't change if there truly are, but do you base this assertion upon anything factual?

Color my world with muted shades of skepticism.; १६/८/१५, ११:५९ AM
अनामित म्हणाले...: At this point, the media circus and ensuing distractions that would surround such an announcement are likely the biggest impediments a major league player would have toward doing this. All of them can see what happened to Michael Sam, who even this week was in headline news for quitting the CFL to focus on mental health.; १६/८/१५, १२:२१ PM
Wilbur म्हणाले...: Conversely, I think it likely that if Michael Sam had made an NFL squad, especially as an active player on gameday (even if just a special teams player), the attention devoted to him would have dissipated eventually.

It's the fact that he performed below standard and failed to make an NFL roster that played into the narrative: that he was the victim of discrimination for failing to be drafted and then was unfairly denied a chance to play in the NFL.; १६/८/१५, १:२० PM
Doug म्हणाले...: Ann, why do you think there are so many gay major leaguers?; १६/८/१५, २:१६ PM
Static Ping म्हणाले...: I have to agree with geokstr. Given that men are less likely to be homosexual/bisexual than women and sports tend to attract the more masculine, it is quite possible that there are no gay players in Major League Baseball at this time. If you asked me to bet serious money on that assertion I wouldn't, but it is not a remote possibility either. I sense that the probability that there are no gay Major League Baseball players is higher than there is a WNBA team with no lesbians.

There have been two former MLB players that came out after their playing days: Glenn Burke and Billy Beane. Glenn was out to his teammates but not the public while he was playing. From what I read he had very impressive tools so many people thought he was going to be a star, but he never amounted to anything beyond a fair to poor backup outfielder. Whether you can blame this on the pressure of keeping his secret or his tools not translating into baseball talent is up to debate. Lots of great athletes have been mediocre baseball players and some fatsos have been good ones. Billy Beane, not to be confused with Oakland general manager and Moneyball subject of the same name, was a fringe outfielder for a few years and was generally terrible. He works for the MLB now as their Diversity Officer or whatever the politically correct term is these days.; १६/८/१५, २:२० PM
Doug म्हणाले...: Gays don't have the necessities to play in the majors or the NFL. Maybe you'll get an occasional outlier who will infiltrate, bit professional sports are going to dominated by masculine, women-living men. Gays are just too fabulous to be the best.; १६/८/१५, २:२६ PM
M Jordan म्हणाले...: I'm so glad I got to live through the period of human history where gays became not just acceptable but exemplary. Because being gay is exemplary.; १६/८/१५, ३:१२ PM
John henry म्हणाले...: Ann said:

Wake me up when the many gay major leaguers break their silence.

How nmany gays do you think there are in the major leagues, Ann? How many is "many"? Got a number?

Approximately 2% of men are gay. There are about 1000 players in major league baseball.

That would mean that there should be 20 gay players. Is that "many"?

20 assumes that players are in the same proportion to population. As others have pointed out, gay men are less apt to participate in sports so perhaps 20 is high. Would 10 players still be "many"? 5?

We realize that you see everything filtered through a gay lens. Even so, you sometimes seem to go overboard.

It just ain't that big a deal.

John Henry; १६/८/१५, ३:१३ PM
jeff म्हणाले...: Is he the pitcher or the catcher, or is he a switch hitter?; १६/८/१५, ३:२६ PM
Static Ping म्हणाले...: Since I am a bit of a baseball nut, I figured I would give some context to David Denson's current status.

David Denson is currently playing for Helena (Montana) in the Pioneer League, an Advanced Rookie league. Advanced Rookie classification is the second lowest of the minor leagues, just above the Rookie League classification. This is the lowest classification where the team is actually trying to win and has its own facilities, as the Rookie League classification is mainly there as a player development tool. (They do not charge admission for Rookie League. They do for Advanced Rookie.) Generally players in Advanced Rookie are going to be young (the average age in the Pioneer League is 21) and mainly consists of players recently out of high school (possibly promoted from Rookie League), college prospects starting out, and young international signings from the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, etc. The league plays a short schedule (70+ games) to accommodate players completing their college/high school season, getting drafted/signed, and then starting play in June. It is not unusual for an Advanced Rookie team roster to boast multiple future major leaguers, but the majority of the roster is not going to make it or even get close. I have never heard of a player being promoted to the major leagues directly from Advanced Rookie as there five minor league levels above it.

Mr. Denson was drafted in the 15th round in 2013 as an 18-year-old out of high school. For those of you not familiar with the baseball draft, the 15th round is a late round. The large majority of the players drafted in this round will not make the majors and even fewer will have any significant major league career. Looking at the draft from 2000-2009 the best player to come out of the 15th round was Will Venable, a solid but unspectacular outfielder. The next best is Mike Pelfrey who was a decent pitcher until he suffered an injury. That's not to say that being drafted this late or later is doom; future Hall of Famer Mike Piazza was infamously drafted in the 62nd round. Players have gone undrafted and had very good major league careers. But in the general order of things the 15th round of the MLB draft is less important that the 7th round of the NFL draft in which Michael Sam was drafted.

David's minor league career so far has been unremarkable. He's still a bit young for the levels he is playing, but he's a first baseman/corner outfielder. Players at those positions are expected to hit. Real prospects at this level should be beating up the league and forcing a promotion to a higher level of competition. In 2014 he was a barely above average hitter as a member of Wisconsin in the Midwest League (Short-A, one level up from Advanced Rookie). This year he was awful at Wisconsin and, as I read it, demoted back to Advanced Rookie where he's better but not impressive. I checked some top prospect lists for the Brewers going into the season and he's not mentioned. He very much looks like an organizational player, someone who fills in gaps in minor league rosters so the real prospects have someone to play with. However, organizational players are expected to move up with the prospects they play with, and if he does not start developing soon he probably will be released within a season or two, if not at the end of this season. Then again, players have turned things around when they seemed to be finished, so you never know.

In my opinion, Michael Sam has a much better chance of making an NFL roster than David Denson has of even making the high minors. Sam played well but not great in college, which for all practical purposes is the NFL’s minor league, but his size and game does not translate well to the professional ranks. So far, Denson has shown nothing of interest.

Whether his coming out is because he thinks it important or because he’s trying to hang on when his career is slipping away I leave up to the reader.; १६/८/१५, ३:३८ PM
Original Mike म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; १६/८/१५, ४:३३ PM
LL म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; १६/८/१५, ४:४७ PM
LL म्हणाले...: In doing so, he becomes the first active player in affiliated professional baseball to reveal he is gay.

Sean Conroy, a pitcher for the Sonoma Stompers of the independent Pacific Association, revealed in June that he is gay, becoming the first active pro baseball player to do so. That league is not affiliated with MLB. In the history of the game, only two major-leaguers revealed they were gay — Glenn Burke and Bean — and both did so after leaving the game.

Jeez, talk about qualifying everything. If he were left-handed, can he say he is the first left-handed player in affiliated professional baseball to reveal he is gay?; १६/८/१५, ५:०७ PM
Static Ping म्हणाले...: LL: There is a difference, but it is splitting hairs. Independent baseball leagues are not part of the "affiliated" minor leagues, but they are performing a similar task to the minors: developing players. Indie teams still want to win the league and make money, but if major league teams show interest in their players they most certainly will sell their contracts. Most indie players are trying to find a way to the majors; occasionally, this indie path does work. Independent baseball is what the minor leagues used to be before farm systems were developed, though there are differences.

Indie leagues rosters are a mix of younger players that were not signed, former major leaguers and minor league veterans who are typically too old for the low minors and cannot find a home in the high minors, and guys that have no future but want to play pro ball. When an indie player joins affiliated baseball, they are almost always assigned to the high minors: AA or AAA. Of course, most indie players do not get selected for such honors, but even so a good indie player is probably a better player than than the large majority of players in the low minors. The thing is a 32-year-old indie player who clearly does not have major league ability is significantly less valuable than a 21-year-old who is clearly not major league caliber yet and may never be as good as the 32-year-old but with some luck has the potential to be a major leaguer.

Sean Conroy plays in the Pacific Association, which I have never heard of, but most likely the level of competition there is significantly better than the Pioneer League. In the present Conroy is probably a better player than Denson, though because of his younger age Denson is probably marginally more of a prospect.; १६/८/१५, ११:१५ PM
Peter म्हणाले...: In the print Journal-Sentinel, this was the above-the-fold, front page headline. In type of a size that was once reserved for declarations of war.

Seriously, it's that big a story? Or is it just the Journal-Sentinel being determined that you'll not only accept it, but you better learn to celebrate.

Yes, the J-S editors sure know what's important.; १७/८/१५, ९:०२ AM
Unknown म्हणाले...: So there are gay people everywhere. Huh. Who knew?; १७/८/१५, ११:०७ AM
Pianoman म्हणाले...: Sometimes I wonder if this stuff is deliberately posted in order to cause Shouting Thomas' brain to explode. Like that dude in "Scanners".; १७/८/१५, १२:०९ PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...: Oh, wait a minute. He's not even a major league player! I don't even know why this is news. A minor league player is openly gay? Good lord, the lack of social progress surprises me sometimes.

Tradition and locker room culture are very strong in some places. The most traditional of Anerican sports is not changing as you wish?Maybe it's your definition of "progress" that needs recalibration.; १७/८/१५, १:२८ PM
Static Ping म्हणाले...: CORRECTION: The Midwest League is classified as Low-A, not Short-A, so it is two steps up from Advanced Rookie. That makes his struggles this year less concerning as he's still young for the level. However, he did do badly enough that they sent him to extended spring training while waiting for the Pioneer League season to begin.

I also found one analyst who put Denson as his #17 prospect in the Brewers system. He's more of a fringe prospect than an organizational player at this point, but the distance between the two is thin.

More here: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-future-for-david-denson-on-the-field/; १७/८/१५, ४:०४ PM