Althouse: It's an anti-flag wave.

June 23, 2015

It's an anti-flag wave.

Joining Walmart — Amazon, Sears, and eBay are ending their sales of Confederate battle flag merchandise.

111 comments:

damikesc said...: You know who could've stopped their sales long ago.

Hillary.

Maybe somebody should ask her why she didn't.; 6/23/15, 2:34 PM
Jaq said...: Still no news on the Che posters then? Oh wait! All the people he personally shot in the head at the garden wall, before a delightful breakfast of Caribbean citrus juice and fresh fish had it coming. Right?; 6/23/15, 2:35 PM
Scott said...: Target is the lone holdout. Those Minnesota racists.; 6/23/15, 2:38 PM
lemondog said...: No flag left behind......

So how will they dispose of the inventory?

Oo..Oo....maybe I should corner the market........; 6/23/15, 2:38 PM
TosaGuy said...: What if two gay people wanted a Confederate flag on their wedding cake? Can someone who is not black refuse to make it?; 6/23/15, 2:41 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: So this means that swastika and hammer-sickle stuff is also gone, right? Or is American slavery the WORST THING EVAR!!! now?; 6/23/15, 2:41 PM
Rob said...: Awaiting the delicious irony of a black market in Confederate flags.; 6/23/15, 2:42 PM
Known Unknown said...: If Confederate Flags are outlawed, only outlaws will have confederate flags!; 6/23/15, 2:46 PM
clint said...: Has anyone realized that this just means evil racist organizations have a new revenue stream as the sole suppliers of confederate flag gear?; 6/23/15, 2:47 PM
garage mahal said...: #RacistWhiteTrashLivesMatter; 6/23/15, 2:49 PM
Jaq said...: White Trash.... remember when Democrats used to care about the working class?; 6/23/15, 2:51 PM
Big Mike said...: Gonna be hard on Civil War reenactors, at least the ones portraying Southerners.; 6/23/15, 2:51 PM
garage mahal said...: Racist white trash = working class? Since when?; 6/23/15, 2:52 PM
Big Mike said...: @tim, that was a long, long time ago.; 6/23/15, 2:52 PM
Known Unknown said...: Gonna be hard on Civil War reenactors, at least the ones portraying Southerners.

I bet the will be able to obtain flags through military history organizations -- or the same places they get uniforms, et al.

Also, Etsy.; 6/23/15, 2:54 PM
Jaq said...: Right, "white trash" is not a racial slur, I forgot. On account of trailer trash and the like enjoy so much #WhitePrivilege; 6/23/15, 2:55 PM
Left Bank of the Charles said...: I score this one for Mitt, and Meade.; 6/23/15, 2:55 PM
Hagar said...: Well, that should open up some opportunities for mom & pop stores to sell Confederate memorabilia.
Silver lining and all that.; 6/23/15, 2:56 PM
Big Mike said...: @EMD, I was being tongue in cheek. But I think you knew that.; 6/23/15, 2:56 PM
Original Mike said...: Bakers are still free to bake confederate cakes, right?; 6/23/15, 3:00 PM
damikesc said...: Perhaps it's time to revisit the ban on internet sales taxes. I don't love the flag either, but if companies want to be in bed with movements, perhaps their subsidization should cease. I don't want to support Thought Police, personally.

ebay still sells Che Guevera T-shirts. Still sells Mao and Stalin memorabilia. So their morals are...odd.

White Trash.... remember when Democrats used to care about the working class?

Never?

And color me stunned that removing the flag from State grounds was only the first in the Left's calvacade of bitching.; 6/23/15, 3:01 PM
Known Unknown said...: Perhaps it's time to revisit the ban on internet sales taxes.

I'm sorry, I thought you were a rational person.; 6/23/15, 3:03 PM
Hagar said...: Large chains are too vulnerable to government pressure tactics.; 6/23/15, 3:04 PM
Fernandinande said...: FOR SALE on EBay: Hillary Clinton 2008 Confederate Flag Pins

Original Mike said...
Bakers are still free to bake confederate cakes, right?

Only if they don't want to.; 6/23/15, 3:04 PM
Jason said...: I just got a creepy ad in my Facebook feed from eBay.

It's a photo of a Che Guevara T-shirt. The caption says, "Still thinking?"

I shit thee not.; 6/23/15, 3:05 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: The market for these flags, apart from people buying them for history displays, consists of a teeny-tiny minority of powerless, poor, uneducated white people. It's not like we're doing truth to power here. We're symbolically sticking it to the handful of already socially marginalized people from already socially marginalized groups in every town.

I live in Arkansas. The last time I saw one of these flags, I was driving through another state and there was an old trailer near the highway that had one of these flags flying. Yeah, stick it to that guy in the old trailer! Down with him!; 6/23/15, 3:06 PM
Hagar said...: The Republican nominee for governor of Kentucky is calling for removal of the Jefferson Memorial there.
Perhaps that would also be a good idea for Washington, D.C.

After all, Thomas Jefferson was the first to advocate for "nullification," which James Madison modified to "interposition," so perhaps Madison should go too.; 6/23/15, 3:08 PM
damikesc said...: I'm sorry, I thought you were a rational person.

If internet companies have a burning desire to make their voices heard, fine. I see no point in subsidizing them. If the company dies in the process, c'est la vie.

Ditto fighting the minimum wage now. If the Chamber of Commerce wants to increase immigration against the will of voters, then let them be forced to pay the people they demand to be let in a shit ton of money.

Stop protecting people who are trying to stifle society.

Large chains are too vulnerable to government pressure tactics.

Not looking for pressure. Looking to stop subsidizing people who don't need it.; 6/23/15, 3:09 PM
Brando said...: Clearly the businesses here are reacting to consumer pressure (though I hadn't heard of any proposed boycotts--maybe they're trying to get ahead of it?). I don't see why conservatives (and anyone else with a brain) don't bring pressure on these same businesses to stop stocking Che Guevara merchandise as well.

My attitude though is if you don't like a business selling something, don't buy it. Just mock the people who do.; 6/23/15, 3:10 PM
Known Unknown said...: "The Republican nominee for governor of Kentucky is calling for removal of the Jefferson Memorial there.
Perhaps that would also be a good idea for Washington, D.C."

We should just remove everything.; 6/23/15, 3:11 PM
Known Unknown said...: I see no point in subsidizing them.

I don't see it as a subsidy. I get that point-of-view that it can be viewed that way, it's just that I don't agree with it.; 6/23/15, 3:12 PM
Original Mike said...: "Yeah, stick it to that guy in the old trailer! Down with him!"

Like they say, "Any squirrel in a storm". (That is what they say, isn't it?); 6/23/15, 3:12 PM
Brando said...: "The market for these flags, apart from people buying them for history displays, consists of a teeny-tiny minority of powerless, poor, uneducated white people. It's not like we're doing truth to power here. We're symbolically sticking it to the handful of already socially marginalized people from already socially marginalized groups in every town."

Real bravery would have been trying this fifty years ago when the "proto-confederate" crowd had real pull. Of course, there were more important issues to fight than symbols back then.

I don't think anyone wanting a confederate flag is going to have trouble getting hold of one--demand will always be met for something so easily made.; 6/23/15, 3:13 PM
Known Unknown said...: Like they say, "Any squirrel in a storm". (That is what they say, isn't it?)

I thought it was "any bitch in a circus" but I'm probably way off.; 6/23/15, 3:13 PM
David said...: I understand the motivation, but this will send the flag further underground, make it even more deliciously outlaw for those who seek that status and perhaps as a result empower bigots rather than hinder them.; 6/23/15, 3:15 PM
Brando said...: ""The Republican nominee for governor of Kentucky is calling for removal of the Jefferson Memorial there.
Perhaps that would also be a good idea for Washington, D.C."

We should just remove everything."

That's the direction we're going in. Once you start pulling one type of merch off the shelves, it's hard to find a place to draw a line.; 6/23/15, 3:15 PM
damikesc said...: Clearly the businesses here are reacting to consumer pressure (though I hadn't heard of any proposed boycotts--maybe they're trying to get ahead of it?). I don't see why conservatives (and anyone else with a brain) don't bring pressure on these same businesses to stop stocking Che Guevara merchandise as well.

Because Progs love Che and they know conservatives don't have the infinite time to bitch about it.

Real bravery would have been trying this fifty years ago when the "proto-confederate" crowd had real pull. Of course, there were more important issues to fight than symbols back then.

Real bravery would've been fighting this in 1987, when Bill Clinton supported the Confederacy being honored on the Arkansas state flag or Hillary doing this in 1986-1992 when she was on the Board.; 6/23/15, 3:15 PM
damikesc said...: That's the direction we're going in. Once you start pulling one type of merch off the shelves, it's hard to find a place to draw a line.

It's easy to draw the line.

"Do Progressives hate it?"

If they don't, it's safe.; 6/23/15, 3:16 PM
Brando said...: "I understand the motivation, but this will send the flag further underground, make it even more deliciously outlaw for those who seek that status and perhaps as a result empower bigots rather than hinder them."

This move by the big stores will only prevent people from whimsically buying a confederate flag along with a crate of paper towels and a pack of scented candles.; 6/23/15, 3:16 PM
Matt Sablan said...: "... pressure on these same businesses to stop stocking Che Guevara merchandise as well."

Republicans are really bad at playing by other people's rules.; 6/23/15, 3:16 PM
Brando said...: "It's easy to draw the line.

"Do Progressives hate it?"

If they don't, it's safe."

You're assuming there's anything in existence that the Left won't ultimately hate. Given time, they come after everything.; 6/23/15, 3:17 PM
lemondog said...: We should just remove everything."

ISISism; 6/23/15, 3:18 PM
Known Unknown said...: No more Confederate Flags.
No more Fat Shaming Subreddits.

What's the world coming to?; 6/23/15, 3:18 PM
garage mahal said...: Amazon, Wal Mart, Sears, and eBay represent "progressives", and "the left".

Neat trick!; 6/23/15, 3:19 PM
Jaq said...: With the Greek default and King vs Burwell coming at the end of the week, this has the flavor of obsessing over shark attacks in August 2001.; 6/23/15, 3:24 PM
Jaq said...: Is the two minutes up yet? These things just seem to get longer. Like the rabbi and cantor who think that Saturday is all about them.; 6/23/15, 3:25 PM
Known Unknown said...: ebay still sells Che Guevera T-shirts. Still sells Mao and Stalin memorabilia. So their morals are...odd.

I suppose, but those are symbols of other countries. The nuance that they were still 'evil' is lost on these retailers.; 6/23/15, 3:26 PM
Known Unknown said...: You can still buy your Civil War Era flags right in the heart of the Union (Columbus, Ohio.); 6/23/15, 3:28 PM
n.n said...: The murders in Charleston likely had little do with the Confederate flag, a distance cause. The psychotic break was more likely triggered by a near cause, institutional discrimination, including class diversity policy that denigrates individual dignity, and civil rights organizations that have a noticeably pro-choice or selective outlook. His consumption of psychotropic drugs only contributed to nursing his cognitive dissonance. The noise from the public and private social complex is an effort to obfuscate their role in creating moral hazards. The prejudiced reporting of the Press serves to amplify and displace culpability. Establishment of a pro-choice State religion has far-reaching consequences.; 6/23/15, 3:30 PM
MountainMan said...: So, once they start banning things, where does this end? Will they only ban the flags? How about the Confederate Battle Flag bikinis? Do they go, too?

I wonder why no one is talking about banning the current (adopted 2003) Georgia state flag, known as the "Georgia Stars and Bars." That's right, the current flag - which replaced the flag that incorprated the battle flag - is specifically and intentionally based on the first national Confederate flag, the "Stars and Bars." All they did was replace the 13 white stars in the canton with the Georgia state seal. Does that not make it a hate symbol as well? This was actually the flag of the Confederate government, not simply a flag used as a guide on a battlefield. And if flies over the state capitol and every public building and school in the state.

I guess everyone is too historically ignorant these days.; 6/23/15, 3:34 PM
Known Unknown said...: I guess everyone is too historically ignorant these days.

Dude, give it time. It won't end here.; 6/23/15, 3:36 PM
Known Unknown said...: Mississippi getting on the flag jag; 6/23/15, 3:37 PM
Wilbur said...: I suggest the name of the Wisconsin capital city be changed to honor some non-slave owner.; 6/23/15, 3:38 PM
Michael said...: Well, problem fixed.; 6/23/15, 3:39 PM
Jaq said...: garage, what was Hillary doing on the board of Wall Mart?; 6/23/15, 3:41 PM
Known Unknown said...: From the Montgomer (Ala)- Advertisder:

A few months after the flag came down, Mercedes-Benz announced that it would open a plant in Vance, near Tuscaloosa, bringing the automotive industry to Alabama overnight. At the groundbreaking for the plant in May 1994, Mercedes-Benz executives told Folsom that it would have been difficult for them to come to Alabama if the Confederate flag still flew over the Capitol.

Says the company who employed slave labor during WW2. Wow.; 6/23/15, 3:42 PM
Hagar said...: The stores reaction was too fast for a response to calls for boycotts, besides I have not seen any such.
A few discrete phonecalls between some people you never heard of, but near their respective thrones, is probably more like it.; 6/23/15, 3:44 PM
tim maguire said...: I can't get too worked up about it. Sure, the Confederate flag can mean more than racism, Jim Crow and slavery, but it also means those things. Folks who want to make a statement about states' rights would do well to find a different symbol.; 6/23/15, 3:44 PM
victoria said...: Hello bandwagon.... Let everyone jump on. Especially all you Republicans. If you can't not commit,then join all the rest.

Vicki From Pasadena; 6/23/15, 3:50 PM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: I recently came into possession of a Confederate flag - the local VFW was getting rid of a bunch of donated flags and I got a few (SC, NC, old GA, and Confederate). It's in my attic somewhere.

From the comment threads today I've learned that Garage, R&B, and Meade (and I guess the Prof) are all my moral superiors. They are good people, I am not. They are compassionate decent people, I am backwards trash. Although I live in a minority-majority city (and county) and get along just fine, and some of them live in places so white the Vox staff would blush to consider it, I must listen to their judgment of my heart--I am ugly and stunted, they are clean and just. Distressingly no one has mentioned what steps I could take to purify my soul in a way my moral betters would approve--I can only conclude I will never be one of the enlightened. They'll spit on my memory when I'm gone, of course, but my death will be the nation's salvation--when people like me (southern "typical white" guys) die off maybe the nation can finally heal.
Thanks for the lessons, folks.; 6/23/15, 3:51 PM
Monkeyboy said...: When the mob is cheering the destruction of statues along Richmond's monument way will they see the parallels to ISIS destroying art in Mosul and the Bamyan Buddahs?And if they do...will they care?; 6/23/15, 3:54 PM
Known Unknown said...: I might buy one of these and open up a gulag.; 6/23/15, 3:59 PM
Eric the Fruit Bat said...: Now would be a good time for somebody clever to do a parody of that Steinberg cover for the New Yorker, except from North to South.

What?

Too late?; 6/23/15, 4:00 PM
the wolf said...: I'll just go ahead and assume we're completely out of real problems. It's a great day.; 6/23/15, 4:16 PM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: " garage mahal said...
#RacistWhiteTrashLivesMatter"

Among the unemployed, overweight, white, populist, Midwest schlubbery righteousness reigns! Never mind that they're the most racist, misogynist, ignorant, and homophobic group of guys I've ever met.; 6/23/15, 4:18 PM
MayBee said...: Monkeyboy said...
When the mob is cheering the destruction of statues along Richmond's monument way will they see the parallels to ISIS destroying art in Mosul and the Bamyan Buddahs?And if they do...will they care?

Exactly!

Besides, aren't a lot of lefties proud of traveling the world and seeing the remains of ancient cultures and previous empires?
Why do they want to do the opposite in the US? Imagine a world wiped clean of any reference except to current political regimes?; 6/23/15, 4:20 PM
MayBee said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/23/15, 4:20 PM
garage mahal said...: Among the unemployed, overweight, white, populist, Midwest schlubbery righteousness reigns!

Sorry to offend, "Cracker".; 6/23/15, 4:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Monkeyboy: When the mob is cheering the destruction of statues along Richmond's monument way will they see the parallels to ISIS destroying art in Mosul and the Bamyan Buddahs?And if they do...will they care?

I was just thinking about Monument Way in a mental review of "hurtful" places that need to be razed and paved over. ("Hurtful" being the adjective just used by the governor of Virginia re the Battle Flag on VA license plates. Painful to hear a grown man express himself in that simpering manner.)

Maybe that would make a nice apéritif to dynamiting Stone Mountain. Surely we can't let that stand. And Gettysburg is still entirely too reverent toward the Confederate dead; it's a positive scandal. Don't get me started about what the National Park Service is maintaining at Appomattox. Burn it down!; 6/23/15, 4:33 PM
Etienne said...: Millions of Chinese are going to starve, with no flags to make.; 6/23/15, 4:35 PM
Rusty said...: I,m sTill trying to figure out what this has to do with the sociopath that murdered a bunch of people.
Oh well.
Gun Control!; 6/23/15, 4:47 PM
Anonymous said...: GOD HATES FLAGS!; 6/23/15, 4:53 PM
Anonymous said...: Blogger tim maguire said...
I can't get too worked up about it. Sure, the Confederate flag can mean more than racism, Jim Crow and slavery, but it also means those things. Folks who want to make a statement about states' rights would do well to find a different symbol.

And this is why it works. Every. Single. Time.

We are fat and happy. We have food, shelter, medicine, pretty much whatever we need. In all the world, we are in the top 5% and most of us are in the top 1% of the Earth's population when it comes to wealth.

It's going to be hard to get us worked up about anything. Let the destruction continue. Eventually they'll get you off your couch, hopefully it's not to be hanged.; 6/23/15, 5:02 PM
Fernandinande said...: HoodlumDoodlum said...
They are compassionate decent people, I am backwards trash.

Mess with me and you mess with the whole trailer court.; 6/23/15, 5:19 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Washington and Jefferson were slave owners - why are they still on Mt Rushmore? I am extremely offended by that!!; 6/23/15, 5:22 PM
Gahrie said...: I want to know when they are going to stop selling white sheets.; 6/23/15, 5:25 PM
Lewis Wetzel said...: The old Radical Republicans are the new mainstream.
I guess they found their bloody shirt.; 6/23/15, 5:26 PM
jimbino said...: I can't wait for them to stop dealing in currency that insults atheists, agnostics, freethinkers and humanists with "In God We Trust."; 6/23/15, 5:42 PM
Meade said...: Paul Zrimsek said...
"GOD HATES FLAGS!"

Zrimsekian comment humor at its very finest!; 6/23/15, 5:45 PM
lemondog said...: Retailers pull Confederate flags--after sales soar

There may be another explanation for the surge in Confederate flag sales: an informal movement that seems to have begun on Facebook to make June 27 “National Burn the Confederate Flag Day.”; 6/23/15, 5:47 PM
Jaq said...: What is really funny is that Hillary used the flag in her campaign against the "Light Bringer" in 2008.

It would be interesting if she ever gave a press conference where she took questions.; 6/23/15, 6:07 PM
Jaq said...: She defended a serial sexual harasser and probable rapist, attacking his victims as "nuts and sluts," and ran a racist campaign against Obama using symbols of treason and white supremacy and yet she is the best the Democrats have.; 6/23/15, 6:10 PM
n.n said...: Gahrie:

White sheets... pro-choice/selective-child pins, and selective "equal"-ence gray-colored rainbows. It's amazing how some people will qualify "progress".; 6/23/15, 6:14 PM
Michael K said...: "Amazon, Wal Mart, Sears, and eBay represent "progressives", and "the left".

Neat trick!"

Well, Sears is failing. Amazon has yet to make a profit. Wal Mart is China, Inc. eBay, I dunno.; 6/23/15, 6:23 PM
n.n said...: exhelodrvr1:

Blacks and some Indian tribes were also slaveholders. Not to mentions the latter was genocidal, ergo the alliance of Indian tribes and nations with Americans. The reimagined narrative falls apart from there. Well, that, and the conditions of "slavery" varied widely.

That said, this narrative is not about slavery, or even prejudice, but about displacing culpability through a chosen scapegoat: The Confederate flag. They will milk it for all the leverage it is worth and in so doing progress the status quo. That's what they do when they lack sufficient leverage to control a society. They choose a scapegoat and project all their failures on it, thereby recruiting the "good" people to their cause.; 6/23/15, 6:27 PM
rhhardin said...: It's a "the discussion is already over" media blitz.

The first notable one was Imus being fired in 2007. All of the sudden it was everywhere and everybody was turning on him.

That was Media Matters' doing.

It's a trick.; 6/23/15, 7:12 PM
rhhardin said...: Ich fahre die Fahne

I carry the flag, in a letter of pride back home from a young soldier.; 6/23/15, 7:14 PM
ken in tx said...: http://dixieoutfitters.com/pages/; 6/23/15, 8:05 PM
CWJ said...: Of all the things over which to to get exercised ... Really? What a passive aggressive country we have become. It's all retribution and punishment all the time 24/7. Hooray! Another scalp until the next target is chosen!; 6/23/15, 8:10 PM
Michael said...: If you sent the MSM out with a bounty they probably couldn't round up fifty pictures of people flying that flag across the whole south. There just aren't that many people left who are steeped in that kind off deep redneckery. I travel around some in the rural south and see a hell of a lot more interracial couples in the crossroad convenience stores and Wallmarts than I see confederate flags. I continue to be amazed at the incidence of those couples. We have come a long way. Without the help of our clueless northern friends whose love of the cliche is exceeded only by their embrace of the stereotype.; 6/23/15, 8:15 PM
rhhardin said...: Hey yeah, Walmart and Sears ought to stop selling white sheets.; 6/23/15, 8:30 PM
MountainMan said...: But Amazon has no problem carrying this unique iPhone case:

http://www.amazon.com/Premium-Protection-Military-Hitler-Packaging/dp/B00Z18ROU0/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435109966&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=adolph+hitler+iphone; 6/23/15, 8:45 PM
google is evil said...: I hope someone sues and takes these idiots for Billions. The arbitrary nature of the decisions is unconstitutional. How is this any different from the bakers refusing service? This will continue until some politician has the courage to stand up to the mob. Until then Nikki Haley is done as a politician on any national level. And I say this as a West Coaster and Mexican who believes in opportunity.; 6/23/15, 8:49 PM
Meade said...: "How is this any different from the bakers refusing service?"

What service is Walmart, et al. refusing? They're choosing to not offer a product. Just like they choose not to offer pornography. How is that unconstitutional?

Arbitrary? Quite the opposite: Their decision is based on reason.; 6/23/15, 9:04 PM
Michael said...: Meade

But the baker cannot choose legally to not offer a certain product.; 6/23/15, 9:46 PM
bgates said...: Perhaps that would also be a good idea for Washington, D.C.

-which should be renamed Obama, D.O.

Wait a minute - from French district (16c.), from Medieval Latin districtus "restraining of offenders, jurisdiction," - "restraining of offenders" sounds pretty racist too. Better rename the capitol "Obama, O.O."; 6/23/15, 11:29 PM
Unknown said...: Ann-Will you be giving back any and all monies you earned from purchases of Confederate flag merchandise through your Amazon portal? If not, them why not?; 6/23/15, 11:52 PM
Gahrie said...: But the baker cannot choose legally to not offer a certain product.

Fuck the baker.

He made a woman feel bad. Worse, he made two women feel bad.

He's lucky he didn't get lynched.; 6/24/15, 1:41 AM
Jaq said...: I guess the baker should have just said "We don't offer that product" when asked to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding! Problem solved.

"Special Pleading," the concept of the year:

Unexplained claims of exemption from principles commonly thought relevant to the subject matter; 6/24/15, 6:03 AM
jr565 said...: Michael wrote:
"But the baker cannot choose legally to not offer a certain product."

if the baker is selling products in his shop that he's baked for sale to the public, then, you're right. But could a caterer not do a job for a certain client? Why not? People who do such types of work turn down clients all the time for any number of reasons.
So then, if a baker makes cakes for specific ceremonies he should be able to say yes and no in those specific cases. Since he's doing work for a specific function.; 6/24/15, 8:39 AM
jr565 said...: And yes. The baker can choose not to stock certain items. They don't have to sell EVERYTHING. They sell the things they want to sell. So Amazon has every right to not sell things like swastikas. And by extension, the confederate flag. I think to short sighted and politically correct, since the confederate flag has some positive value, unlike, say a swastika. And it seems like Amazon is catering to the mob.
But certainly they can do so.; 6/24/15, 8:43 AM
jr565 said...: Hypothetical- a baker who bakes cakes needs to bake cakes for everyone. What if someone came in and asked for a cake thst said "happy birthday confederacy" and the icing was made to look like the confederate flag. Could the baker refuse service?; 6/24/15, 8:46 AM
Meade said...: Yes. The baker is also free to make a cake that says "God Hates Fags" and then offer that product for sale. What he can't do is offer that product for sale to everyone except Rachel Dolzal because he doesn't like one of her perceived racial characteristics or because she seems to be gay.; 6/24/15, 8:56 AM
Jaq said...: I guess it all comes down to whether or not the cake baker is an artist or not.

There is an old saying that you can't make the producer hire the singer and you can't force the singer to sing.

If the wedding cake was a bog standard item that sits on a shelf and a gay couple came in and tried to buy it and they refused, that would be rightfully illegal.

If they are asking the baker to use their skills to create a special cake bespoke for their wedding, then it is important to strip the baker of any claim to the title of "artist" so that it is acceptable to force them to work on a cake, regardless of their wishes.

Personally, I don't think I would shop at a bakery that I knew was anti-gay. That is not the issue. The issue is the constant special pleading, this is right, that is wrong! Why? Context! There are no rules! There is no rule of law. Abstract thinking is so male! Don't you know that the law is applied "contextually" now and that "context" is whatever we decide it is this week?

Why can't Neil Young be forced to perform at a Donald Trump campaign event? Is music more of an art that baking? Why yes! Context!

It's special pleading and things unsaid all the way down.; 6/24/15, 9:09 AM
President-Mom-Jeans said...: I guess Meade thinks its okay Bitchtits to call people "Cracker" and refer to "blackys" but its not okay to call him out for it.

Way to go, lawn bitch.; 6/24/15, 9:30 AM
Lucid said...: If a baker can sell a cake to Rachel Dolzal that says "Happy Birthday!" does that mean the baker must also sell Rachel Dolzel a cake that says "Death to America" or "God Hates Fags" or "Happy Gay Wedding Day"?; 6/24/15, 9:32 AM
MayBee said...: "God Hates Fags"

Your hypothetical doesn't really match because you are talking about a cake they make that they've created and are offering to everyone.

What if the baker regularly makes a "God Hates Sin" cake. Then a black person comes in and says, "I would like a God Hates Gays" cake. Can the baker refuse that? How about a gay activist wants a cake that says, "God Hates the Mormon Church" (why, you may ask, do the want this cake? Did you see the California anti-prop 8 ads?) How about...you are a cake baker who makes novelty penis cakes. Then someone wants to come in and have one made for a gay man who is known pedophile?

I think a creative person shouldn't be forced to create something for cause he doesn't believe in.; 6/24/15, 9:32 AM
Jaq said...: Cake bakers have been defined as craftsmen, not artists. Music though is not a craft, it's an art. I wonder if a wedding singer could be forced to perform at a gay wedding?

Don't look for consistency MayBee. Madness lies in that direction. It's all about contextual thinking!; 6/24/15, 9:44 AM
Meade said...: rhhardin said...
"Hey yeah, Walmart and Sears ought to stop selling white sheets."

First they might want to stop selling burning crosses.; 6/24/15, 12:05 PM
furious_a said...: The Republican nominee for governor of Kentucky is calling for removal of the Jefferson Memorial...

That's the Jefferson *Davis statue*.; 6/24/15, 2:53 PM
Rick Caird said...: If South Carolina removes the flag and Walmart, etc. remove the merchandise, can we not say that Dylann Roof won?; 6/24/15, 5:38 PM