You might think so if you read the headline and the partial transcription at Real Clear Politics, but I've watched the video and did my own transcription:
"I read a great book on St. Francis of Assisi, who the Pope... models himself after. The environment was given to us by the Lord, and it needs to be taken care of. And it shouldn't be worshiped, that is called pantheism. So, I think the Pope pointing out the fact that we need to take care of the environment is good. I don't agree with his conclusion that all of it is bad because of free enterprise, because it's lifted people out of poverty, and he cares about the poor, and so do I. But, I mean, a nice warning to people about the environment. In my state, we've reduced emissions by 30% over the last 10 years. We want to develop renewable. So, I have no problem. If the Pope wants to talk about pollution and how we need to be conscious of it, good for him."
And after a question about legislation, Kasich indicated he didn't know what the Pope's legislative agenda is and: "Let's not get carried away... I think what he was trying to say is we care about the environment, and I agree with him."
Reading the presentation at Real Clear Politics, Meade said "I think the Republicans have their new Todd Akin" — that is, a dumb guy who will emit sound bites that will get a lot of attention and embroil other Republicans in distracting discussions that will tarnish them all. I was going to frame this post around that idea. But Kasich did not accuse the Pope of pantheism, nor did he equate environmentalism with pantheism. He didn't even distance himself from environmentalism.
But "pantheism" is a powerfully distracting word, and it would be helpful to Democrats to exploit whatever they can find to make Republicans seem to have some weird notion that environmentalism is religious heresy.
ADDED: You know, Kasich is a little blabby and he may be kind of dumb. I'd advise him to think about what he wants to say before he just starts riffing. Have a point and get to it. He was asked a question about whether environmentalism is a moral issue, and he began soberly telling us about his readings on theology. He may believe he's the thoughtful, educated man in the GOP group. That's a huge vulnerability! Remember, Todd Akin seemed to think he was lecturing us on science.....
June 23, 2015
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
100 comments:
Either Akins or Perry. "I will tell you, it is three theisms when I get there that are gone. Atheism, Pantheism, and - what's the third one? Let's see,"
I don't see this quote really working against Kasich--even out of context, it's hard to see it as him calling the Pope "pantheist" and in fact only calling "worship" of the environment "pantheist". Not that his critics won't try to go there--they certainly will!--but I don't see this getting the play that "legitimate rape" did.
Kasich seems to say what he's thinking, without much political filtering. I like that.
Imagine a debate between Hillary and Kasich on the part religion might play in the political philosophy of a President.
Oh, for the love of God, don't let pantheism become an issue in this campaign!
The Pope is from Argentina, he knows nothing about economics or the environment. His business is saving souls. He's becoming an idiot tool of the progs.
John Kasich To Pope Francis: The Environment Shouldn't Be Worshiped -- "That Is Called Pantheism"
I see something like that and dismiss it instantly as unimportant rubbish.
Not worth serious consideration on the merits.
I hope I'm not the only one.
One of the reasons Catholic intellectuals are so smart is they have to do the hard work it takes to figure out how they're not polytheists.
"Pantheism" was my first thought as I read outtakes from his screed.
But remember people, global warming is a scientific issue and abortion is a moral one. The Pope has strong authority on one, and none on the other. Ask any atheist lefty.
Republicans don't terribly support Kasich since his asinine Medicare expansion and he has less than zero shot at the nomination.
And the Pope is a dimbulb. I love how the environmental movement will NOW take the word of a man of God on an issue. It's like they didn't mean how they only worry what "scientists" think. And the Pope pissing on practicing Catholics to placate atheists is a stupid move, but he is going to be good at stupid moves for years to come.
Thank God I'm not a Catholic. Having to pretend that imbecile is infallible would make me question faith.
And, again, odd how Hillary is never asked to comment on the idiotic comments of Democrats. No Democrat is. Any idea why?
The Professor said, "You know, Kasich is a little blabby and he may be kind of dumb. I'd advise him to think about what he wants to say before he just starts riffing. Have a point and get to it."
That's not my reading. He's very quick in interviews. Not as strictly on-message as most big-time politicians, but not dumb like Obama. He knows what he's doing, and he's forcing people to google "pantheism". What percentage, do you suppose, knew what the hell he was talking about?
Walker still seems to me like the one to beat. He seems always ahead of the question and aware of how his answers will be perceived. Kasich is wilder. But Kasich has a great CV.
Explaining that Catholics owe the environment stewardship rather than worship is a pretty easy case to make.
The body given the power to exercise that dominion is crucial in American politics. The Pope personifies the international control that Democrats have to sell, and it's the Democrats who used fear to oppose their own president on the biggest piece of international law to come down the pike.
The substance of this issue is too frought for Democrats to exploit Kasich's putative papal appellation.
I love that the Pope's top scientific advisor worships Gaia, not God.
Cute. Good choice, Pope Ricky Ricardo.
https://stream.org/scientific-pantheist-who-advises-pope-francis/
Meaning that, yes, a pantheist was key in the most asinine Enyclical in recent memory.
Kasich and Rubio would be a tough ticket to beat. Ohio and Florida would be theirs. No way Repubs nominate someone who talks about the environment and who helped the poor though.
Kasich is smart but often comes across as dumb. He needs a better hair cut.
Maybe Kasich was conflating pantheism with animism.
In any case, effective presidents don't need to be mental giants. I'll take a Harry Truman (iq 132) over a Jimmy Carter (iq 156) any day. And Kasich is definitely a Truman.
Oh, for the love of God, don't let pantheism become an issue in this campaign!
Yeah, because everybody knows the real problem is Panentheism!
Don't let those goddamn liberals immanetize your eschaton!
If religion is the opiate of the masses and environmentalism is the cocaine of the masses,
the pope is pushing a speedball.
Reading too much into it.
Akin was going to win a senate seat, Kasich won't win anything beyond what he is now. Destroying Akin had strategic purpose right before an election and an immediate payoff.
Your average person does not know what Pantheism is and could care less about the pope because they are not Catholic.
Kasich is not dumb, Akin was dumb.
It is summer of 2015 and people are doing summer stuff. Words uttered by a third-tier candidate in 2015 mean nothing.
Oh, and FWIW, Obama (iq 145) has a higher iq than hillary (iq 140).
PanPolititionists will be on stage at the casting call. Assuming each one has or is his or her or it's own god, goddesses, or ancestors they worship that could be about a thousand right there, assuming the monotheism of Judeo-Christianity does not assert itself.
El Popeo has a stable of venerated Saints on his side to make it a fair fight.
thanks for that link, Garage
My understanding is that the Pope makes that distinction in the document -- he calls out environmentalism as pantheism, and lays out the Catholic perspective of a humanist environmental stewardship, which places man at the center of creation and grants him dominion, ref Genesis. Looks like Kasich understands this and is not misrepresenting. To say that Kasich is accusing the Pope of pantheism is simply malicious.
Most people don't know pantheism (or John Kasich) from pan noodles. Really, Althouse, I realize you're trolling your readers but this is lame.
Thanks Caroline Walker.
In a way, progressives practice Peter Pantheism.
No one really ever has to grow up.
Good old Todd Akin had a hoax science on his side too.
Surprisingly the real science was called upon by the NYT in Pope Todd's case.
But that is too much to expect in a city in the running for Capitol of the new UN the World Energy Commission with a Papal wing decorated in gold.
Environmentalism definitely is a religion, at least for some people.
It's got rituals, holidays, sin and atonement, the condemnation of heretics -- heck, Al Gore made billions selling indulgences. And the faith is now in the grips of an apocalyptic end-of-the-world movement.
There's this weird thing going on today where irrational (aka wrong, or that-other-guy's) beliefs are called a religion, and your own (aka rational, logical, and scientific) beliefs are not. Religion is a much broader category than that. Try to fit the Confucian or the Taoist into the current model of what is and isn't a religion.
Let's try and gin up more stupid controversies! This is super important, you guys!
Too many politicians speak (on and on and on) when they shouldn't. Given that they get their job by speaking, that's not surprising.
No one is advocating environment-worship (except, perhaps, people on the far left).
It amuses me to hear leftists say that capitalism is bad for the environment and things would be better under a more socialist form of government. They obviously have not seen what communist governments like the old Soviet Union as well as modern day China and Vietnam have in the way of pollution. I've been to China and Vietnam and felt my eyes burning from air pollution the likes of which we have not seen in the US since the 1960s.
The sad fact is that cleaning up the environment is primarily something that wealthy nations can afford to do. Poor nations seldom can afford to care much about the environment - they're struggling to survive. And how do nations become wealthy? It isn't via socialism or communism, that's for sure.
His statements were fine. The usual suspects are making a big deal out of nothing. Sure, if someone lies and misrepresents what he said, it sounds worse than it was but that can be said about almost any statement.
The real problem is that many do not want to hear a dumb ole Republican throwing around concepts like "pantheism." Republicans aren't smart enough to make off the cuff references like that!
Perhaps Althouse can advise the democrats to propose everyone in the US wears a name tag. A great addition to the party platform!
Kasich is a damn fine governor. He's taken a state (Ohio) who had two morons as previous governors and has returned it to stability. He's a bit blabby and, at times, he can be an asshole. But he's a good governor who's doing the hard work of governing. Oh, and he's not dumb but you'll find that out later.
You can read the Pope's letter here.
"I will tell you, it is three theisms when I get there that are gone. Atheism, Pantheism, and - what's the third one? Let's see,"
Agapism, botulism, capitalism .......
Oh, and FWIW, Obama (iq 145) has a higher iq than hillary (iq 140).
I wonder what the IQ of the average person that posts IQ scores for presidents based on hoaxes?
My guess is that the more the person in question agreed with the estimator on political questions, the higher his or her IQ. I am guessing that W comes out in the low 90s, right?
Based on the fact that he didn't get into Columbia immediately which says something about his SATs (you can't claim he was disadvantaged, he attended an elite prep school), and other factors of his academic performance, Vox Day estimates his IQ at around 116. Which is fine.
Katich is anything but dumb. He's a budget and numbers guy. Some would say he's more 'wonkish' than is good to be if running for office. And, yes, he does tend to riff on subjects ranging far and wide. But this is not a dumb man. This is NOT Todd Akin, and it's lazy to toss that out there.
It's amazing how Democrats can put up mediocre minds that are heralded as the 'smart power' people. John Kerry for one. But…that's just one. There are, literally, hundreds more to that list. (including a former Secy of State).
Agree with him, don't agree with him. But John Kasich is not a stupid man. Enough already with the tired 'dumb Republican' thing. It's tedious.
"Kasich is not dumb, Akin was dumb."
Kasich has a BA in Poli Sci. Akin has a BS in engineering.
Your point ?
Kasich is a sly devil opening the debate to Francis of Assisi' s insanity that the Church finally had to claim for its own because he became so popular for showing mercy to the down and out of Italy. The made him a statue of his own outside in the garden.
The Argentine Jesuit knows that is a perfect opening to steer Catholics where the UN wants them
by pretending a fictional disaster calls for world tyranny in place of the silly experiment in nations with elected representatives the Protestants fought for and won.
Todd Akin is a creation of the Democrat controlled media for the weak minded.
It works. And Republicans need to realize it works. It even works on smart, clever, deep thinking people like Althouse.
There are more "Todd Akin" like people in the Democrat party (Joe Biden being a fantastic example) than there ever will be in the Republican party. But if we didn't have the internet, you'd never know it.
If you remember, back in the 80's and 90's, Kasich and Penny (D-Minn) would present a balanced budget to Congress-- to the horror of the statists.
Their persistence produced something that was as close as we ever got to balance since 1969 (also came close during the last years of Clinton).
His persistence when everyone in congress insisted it couldn't be done or would cause the collapse of modern society impressed me. Plus he retired from Congress in his prime.
Some would say blabby-- but I always thought of it as honest, plain speaking.
Oh, and FWIW, Obama (iq 145) has a higher iq than hillary (iq 140)
Prove it, since we've never seen any evidence of it!
Kasich taint dumb but he grates on me like fingernails on a chalkboard. But those are Republican fingernails so dammit, I'd vote for him.
Kasich is below the cut, so he needs to say something that will draw attention. Being seen to call out the Pope may help among Protestants, and conservative Catholics.
"ADDED: You know, Kasich is a little blabby and he may be kind of dumb. I'd advise him to think about what he wants to say before he just starts riffing. Have a point and get to it. He was asked a question about whether environmentalism is a moral issue, and he began soberly telling us about his readings on theology. He may believe he's the thoughtful, educated man in the GOP group. That's a huge vulnerability!"
A bit much coming from someone who voted for Obama. Kasich is more circumspect than blabby. The Pope with his eco nonsense is almost arriving at paganism.
"Agapism, botulism, capitalism ......."
...dogmatism. Wait, no... the kids, like all kids, love dogmatism and I just want to say this right now, that regardless of what they say about it, we're gonna keep it.
I think John Kasich was saying (but he cut short his words) that the Pope was saying the environment needs to be taken care of. And he agrees with that. But, says Kasich, it shouldn't be worshipped (so that you would say never disturb anything - never cut down any forests and so on) and the Pope obviously was not endorsing that because that would be pantheism, and pantheism is against a core doctrine of the Roman Catholic church.
Everybody's talking about Atheism, Pantheism, Botulism, Capitalism, Shagism, Dragism, Tagism, This-ism, That-ism/All we are saying, is give Popes a chance....
@Caroline Walker.
Even more so, then. The distinction between what he is saying and pantheism is in the document Kasich was referring to. Now what sosrt of belief would be pantheism may be different than what might be implied from what Kasich said.
Very funny, Althouse!
"All we are saying, is give Popes a chance...."
Papism?
Kasich is playing learn on the job political speech discipline in the age on the internet where facts and words are never ignored and always make half of the people mad. But playing it down the middle makes everybody mad.
The sincere doofus that means well is an Ohio persona that will not excite people from any other areas. He has the problem that Walker was accused of having: Midwestern boringness. Meanwhile Walker has an excitement that attracts people. Go figure.
I blame Henry VIII. He asked for it.
"Kasich has a BA in Poli Sci."
That doesn't vouch for much intelligence!
I'm not saying K is dumb, just that his manner of speaking betrays a delusion that he will be perceived as smart. It's a vulnerability. He needs to confront that and take account of himself and work with people that will help him not blow it (as Rick Perry famously did).
Here's Todd Akin's educational background (from Wikipedia):
"Akin graduated from John Burroughs School, a private prep school in suburban St. Louis,[4] and went on to attend Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Worcester, Massachusetts, earning a B.S. in engineering from its School of Business in 1971. After graduation, Akin served as an engineer officer in the National Guard of the U.S. Army... After leaving active duty, Akin sold large computer systems for IBM, then worked as a manager in his family's steel business. Akin earned a Master of Divinity degree in 1984 from Covenant Theological Seminary where he studied Greek, Hebrew, and a socially conservative interpretation of the Christian scriptures. He did not enter the ministry."
How many states did Obama visit?
The news media will twist anything to help Democrats. Even make stuff up. No one with a brain believes anything that Obama says or the news media reports.
Akin and Kasich share a characteristic of being too sincere in politics. It is a lot better to be cynical, which I think Cruz shows to some advantage. Kasich looks to me like he actually believes the people he is talking to are interested and want to hear what he says. With the media, that is almost always a mistake.
I do think Kasich is smart in terms of budget matters but few are interested. Paul Ryan is a bit that way. You could see Biden in the debate make a successful effort to blow up Ryan's arguments by playing the fool, which Biden does well.
Romney also was too sincere. Reagan was always ready to make a humorous comment that even his opponents might laugh at. He cracked up Mondale in their debate.
Carter, like Hillary, was absolutely humorless. Reagan managed to make Carter look foolish with his "There you go again..."
The Republican has to be able to think on his feet and make fun of Hillary in a subtle way like Reagan could do.
I might add that Bush did it in his debates with Gore, another stiff.
Kasich was raised as a Catholic, but after his parents died in a car crash, he became an Episcopalian. You know what that means.
I would estimate, based on nothing more than their public statements, that Sarah Palin and Barack Obama probably have about the same IQ.
...by pretending a fictional disaster calls for world tyranny...
UN
Anarchism
Didn't the pope refer to "sister earth"? He may not be a pantheist, but he is bordering on idolatry of inanimate objects, the "golden calf". God spoke of conservation, not environmentalism.
Also, science is a frame-based philosophy, that does not indulge in liberal assumptions of continuity and uniformity, does not process inferential logic, and demotes the significance of correlation. Unfortunately, the scientific method has failed to constrain secular excess.
Todd Akin is a creation of the Democrat controlled media for the weak minded.
His campaign was also bankrolled by Democrats, it should be noted. He was hardly a conservative choice.
Episcopalians, unlike Catholics, don't pray for dead people any more.
http://archive.churchsociety.org/crossway/documents/Cway_106_WhatShouldWePray.pdf
I like Kasich, even with his gaffs. The so-called best and the brightest have screwed things up quite royally, imo. I want to know if someone has heart, if they are kind, if they are humane and if they work cooperatively. I am not looking for an ideologue or a theocrat.
Oh, for the love of God, don't let pantheism become an issue in this campaign!
For the love of gods, let it.
Scott, source for the IQs? I'm somewhere in the 140-160 range depending on which test and I don't think either is terribly intelligent. Verbose, yes, but is that what you consider intelligence? I suppose most verbose people do. Imho, talking isn't the best thing most people do.
Pantheism? Would that be like saying "my opponent was a thespian in college?"
after his parents died in a car crash, he became an Episcopalian. You know what that means.
Trouble!
With a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for pantheism.
or Popeless.
Poor Kasich, he's Popeless.
The lesson here--stay on message! If someone asks you about the Pope you say "I'm running for president, not America's Next Top Catholic. Let's talk about policy."
On the other hand, this does get some press for Kasich and there's nothing like the Left misleadingly insulting you to get support in the GOP primary. I see potential for a win out of this!
Well for the past twenty years "global warming" has replaced "God's will." Once upon a time whenever something bad happened the religious leaders would tell us that it was "God's will." Now we're told instead that it's due to global warming. The Pope is just the latest to sign on.
Truly great entertainment would be presidential debates between Kasich and Slow Joe Biden.
I'd advise him to think about what he wants to say before he just starts riffing.
I would call that "advice from the Midwest."
Episcopalians are not Popeless. They have the British Monarch and his appointees to top their hierarchy, although they will say they are independent of the ArchBishop of Canterbury while they bow and scrape to him and his opinions in an odd historical habit.
Episcopalians proudly accept anybody who believes anything, and like it most if you believe nothing at all except whatever you already believe.
Forgiveness is everything in Episcopalian land. Not a bad strategy for growth, but they have no growth. Go figure.
Q: How do you get eight Popes in a Fiat Cinquecento?
A: Have them take off their hats.
"I think what he was trying to say is we care about the environment"
If only.
Yes, Kasich is too blabby. He's not dumb but is speaking style is too disjointed.
He's also the kind of holier-than-thou Republican who will keep lecturing other Republicans on not caring enough about the poor.
By the way, who did more for the poor -- St. Francis or "markets"?
"Kasich was raised as a Catholic, but after his parents died in a car crash, he became an Episcopalian. You know what that means."
In the absence of any other information relating to the incident or his conversion, it means nothing.
"Scott, source for the IQs?"
I did a search on Bing. "What is [politician's name] iq?" ... and Bing told me.
"Based on the fact that he didn't get into Columbia immediately which says something about his SATs (you can't claim he was disadvantaged, he attended an elite prep school), and other factors of his academic performance, Vox Day estimates his IQ at around 116. Which is fine."
I don't want a president who has the IQ of my plumber. As for his academic performance, he was probably high most of the time, which explains why the media has displayed an aggressive indifference to his undergrad years at Columbia.
I'll take economics for the win, Alex.
What are markets?
Regardless of any debate about Kasich, the Pope did make statements which, if he truly believes them, make places him at least on the fringes of the Pantheist camp.
Well, if you asked Bing, I am sure that it is authoritative! After all, it asked the internet and Bing has access to information that nobody else has seen, apparently.
"I don't want a president who has the IQ of my plumber"
Well, that's what we have. Actually 116 is probably around average for a college student.
Heaven knows that nobody ever games search engines. Just ask Rick Santorum.
Kasich was raised as a Catholic, but after his parents died in a car crash, he became an Episcopalian. You know what that means.
He digs chick priests?
Kasich was raised as a Catholic, but after his parents died in a car crash, he became an Episcopalian. You know what that means.
He decided to not be a member of an actual church?
I don't want a president who has the IQ of my plumber.
I do. Plumbers have USEFUL knowledge. Our pols lack that.
Forgiveness is everything in Episcopalian land. Not a bad strategy for growth, but they have no growth. Go figure.
Because Progressive churches alienate the ACTUALLY religious and the barely religious aren't numerous enough to cover that.
Yes, Kasich is too blabby. He's not dumb
Ala Newt Gingrich? Wasn't he also blabby but smart?
I don't want a president who has the IQ of my plumber.
I do. Plumbers have USEFUL knowledge. Our pols lack that.
My plumber and roofer! Very smart.
I think people frequently confuse "credentialed" for "intelligent".
Obama has tons of credentials. What has he done that shows true intellect? He seems absolutely baffled that his hare-brained schemes fail when it was obvious, from the start, they'd fail.
How many Ivies now simply buy into the bullshit they peddle? They seem to believe that if they lie often enough, it'll become truth.
And IQ is not that useful. I knew a MENSA member who couldn't keep a job as a prison guard.
"My plumber and roofer! Very smart."
Mine too. Plumber anyway. He has a PhD.
I do my roofing myself.
Which, come to think of it, probably isn't very smart.
My tree guy, Brent, is super smart. And hiring him was one of my smartest decisions.
I worked for a plumber one summer. He said I needed to know three things.
"Shit runs downhill",
"Payday's on Thursday",
and "The boss is a son of a bitch."
I don't know if he was smart or not, but I know he lived well and enjoyed his time on this planet.
People are concerned because the Pope keeps leaving work early, but I'd leave early too if my boss never showed up.
It's unbelievably ridiculous that Althousie would castigate Kasich as dumb. To successfully represent a state as diverse and important as Ohio in both the Congress and its Governor's office takes no fool. She's probably just jealous. I'm a big fan of the guy. What she hates is that he does heterodoxy right. He doesn't oversimplify things, and that makes him a successful independent, instead of just another party tool. Her vision of politics is as narrow as Tim Russert's, despite obviously understanding that excessive one-sided partisanship is ineffective. Kasich gets the middle better than anybody, and that's probably why he wins it.
damikesc:
There are many who also confuse intelligence for goodness. I think this class of confusion has far more insidious consequences.
Almost as bad as the Arianism and Manichaeism that some Catholics evince on a regular basis since the Inquisition tailed back.
Kasich may be an intelligent man, I don't know. But he is wrong on this pantheism thing. At first glance it looks like it, but if you read what the guy actually wrote, he is using it as a metaphor. He certainly hints at it, he may even be inviting people to draw that conclusion, who knows? But he is not declaring the planet a conscious being.
“Praise be to you, my Lord, through our Sister, Mother Earth, who sustains and governs us, and who produces various fruit with coloured flowers and herbs.” - Pope Moonbeam
I take it back. Kasich is right.
@Meade, old joke relevant to your comment at 4:06
It's late on a Sunday and the drain backs up at a brain surgeon's house.
Brain surgeon finds a plumber who's available 24x7 and calls him.
Plumber arrives, fixes everything in just 15 minutes, and presents his bill.
Surgeon explodes. "Do you realize that you make more on an hourly basis than I do as a brain surgeon?"
Plumber answers, "Yeah, I never made much money back when I was a brain surgeon either."
Post a Comment