David French's National Review article —
"Wisconsin’s Shame: 'I Thought It Was a Home Invasion'" — has attracted a lot of attention, but
M.D. Kittle of Wisconsin Watchdog focuses on one detail. Cindy Archer "looked outside and saw a person who appeared to be a reporter. Someone had tipped him off." Kittle writes:
But Archer’s suspicion that a reporter was present was apparently right – and indicates that secrecy is a tactic rather than a principle: a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article published on the day of the raid, Sept. 14, 2011, indicates that a Journal Sentinel reporter arrived in time to see “about a dozen law enforcement officers, including FBI agents” raid Archer’s home....
“Around 9 a.m., a reporter saw four FBI agents – two of them wearing latex gloves – talking in Archer’s backyard before going into her house. Later, one removed a large box and put it in the trunk of an FBI car. They left about 10 a.m,” the Journal Sentinel story reported....
The secrecy of the John Doe investigation is supposed to protect those who may have done nothing illegal, and Archer has never been charged, yet her name was in the newspaper the day of the raid
and she was forbidden to talk about it. As French put it in his article:
As if the home invasion, the appropriation of private property, and the verbal abuse weren’t enough, next came ominous warnings. Don’t call your lawyer. Don’t tell anyone about this raid. Not even your mother, your father, or your closest friends.
The entire neighborhood could see the police around their house, but they had to remain silent. This was not the “right to remain silent” as uttered by every cop on every legal drama on television — the right against self-incrimination. They couldn’t mount a public defense if they wanted — or even offer an explanation to family and friends.
পোস্টগুলি
২৮৫টি মন্তব্য:
«সবচেয়ে পুরাতন ‹পুরাতন 285 এর 201 – থেকে 285I'm sorry Garage, I can't keep up. Now you are saying it never happened.
Don't you get tired of backtracking?
if there is a D after your name, as long as you are not found in bed with a dead underage girl or 2 live underage boys, you can pretty much do as you please.
Ask Chuck Chvala about that.
It seems to me worth spelling out just how nasty it is to tell someone they can't consult a lawyer. Yes, that sounds totally unconstitutional, but they can't find out whether it is without consulting a lawyer, which they can only do if they're absolutely sure it's protected by the constitution, and if they could be absolutely sure they wouldn't need the lawyer. So they're left terrified to do something they're pretty sure they're allowed to do, because they can't find out whether it's allowed without doing it.
garage mahal said...
if there is a D after your name, as long as you are not found in bed with a dead underage girl or 2 live underage boys, you can pretty much do as you please.
Ask Chuck Chvala about that.
4/22/15, 2:17 PM
And that is one of the reasons I did not say absolutely. There are exceptions to every rule and generally does not mean always. But why let a good ideology get in the way of common sense or recognizing the difference between right and wrong.
And that is one of the reasons I did not say absolutely. There are exceptions to every rule and generally does not mean always. But why let a good ideology get in the way of common sense or recognizing the difference between right and wrong.
Do I need to remind you that he supported the indictment of Rick Perry?
Dim Tim doesn't know that the fascists abolished trade unions. Remind anyone of a party here in the US?
Why won't Republicans vote for Jews in congress?
I expect garage to be off the rails, but this display by ARM is truly astounding. There's some serious trolling going on---no one can be that self deluded.
Bobber Fleck said...
Worst of all, the situation is so complex that it is very difficult to turn it into a "Bush lied, people died" style bumper sticker against the Democrats.
I disagree...
Chvala should have sued prosecutors like Club for Growth did to halt the John Doe against him.
ARM
You seem to be on crack. You are aware, are you not, that the epicenter of anti-semitism resides in the progressive movement? The most rabid Jew haters in America today carry the same water you carry and for the same goals.
The care-trolling is a little nauseating.
garage mahal said...
Chvala should have sued prosecutors like Club for Growth did to halt the John Doe against him.
4/22/15, 2:55 PM
He very well maybe should have and it might have worked. Guilty or not, each person should have access to the same set of tools to defend themselves with. Despite the fact that he (you know) was actually guilty of crimes.
CWJ-- Madison Man is one of many who have to realize that the middle is shrinking more and more every day in this country. You don't get to declare nonpartisanship when the proglodytes offer only conformity or punisbment. Cruel neutrality is nothing but a hope they come for you last.
"Dim Tim doesn't know that the fascists abolished trade unions. Remind anyone of a party here in the US?
Why won't Republicans vote for Jews in congress?"
First, the communists (and pretty much any totalitarians) always abolish trade unions--any organization not controlled by the state is verboten. Second, I have yet to see a Republican or libertarian actually advocate abolishing trade unions. They may wish to give employees the right to not join them, or the right to employers to not have to deal with them, but that is very different from preventing employees from forming them and not allowing employers to deal with them if they choose. Perhaps you don't like such stances (as they do in effect reduce the power of unions over employees and employers alike) but that's a poor analogy.
As for Republicans not voting for Jews in Congress? Do you have any evidence that Republicans won't vote for Jews who otherwise fit their political preferences? It's absurd to say "a Republican won't vote for Chuck Schumer, must be anti-Semitism!" just as it's stupid to say "Democrats voted for Eric Cantor's opponent--they must hate Jews!" For that matter, Democratic Senators mostly voted against Clarence Thomas--surely they must not want a black man on the Supreme Court!
"I expect garage to be off the rails, but this display by ARM is truly astounding. There's some serious trolling going on---no one can be that self deluded."
Yeah, I'm not proud to be trolled...
Does anyone else see the irony of someone who calls himself "A Reasonable Man" calling everyone who disagrees with him a "fascist"?
Would "A Reasonable Man" do that? How about a reasonable woman?
Would anyone that was reasonable defend the tactics used by the DA's office?
Doesn't seem reasonable to me.
Despite the fact that he (you know) was actually guilty of crimes.
Of course. I suspect Club for Growth, Walker, and a host of others are guilty as well. That's why they are running around with their heads cut off. Going so far as removing Shirley Abrahamson as Chief. You know that's why they did that to her, right?
I see the irony in someone complaining about anyone on this particular forum being called a fascist. It is the single most abused term used here. Abused by ahistorical idiots.
If you can't beat them, join them.
Why won't Republicans vote for Jews in congress.. That Eric Cantor seemed to be such a nice boy.
garage mahal said... [hush][hide comment]
Despite the fact that he (you know) was actually guilty of crimes.
Of course. I suspect Club for Growth, Walker, and a host of others are guilty as well. That's why they are running around with their heads cut off. Going so far as removing Shirley Abrahamson as Chief. You know that's why they did that to her, right?
4/22/15, 3:39 PM
And therein lies the difference! He WAS/IS guilty and you only SUSPECT that these other folks are. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? What has OVER 2 years of aimless digging turned up? When is enough, enough? It seems for you that point is when they finally manage to find something, even if it takes 100 years! Cause they just HAVE to be guilty, right? They may well be but after all this time and all this money what is it you hope to get? Walker kicked out of office? Is that your holy grail? And if that never happens, will you wind up like Queeg rolling steel balls around in your hand and muttering about strawberries?
And therein lies the difference! He WAS/IS guilty and you only SUSPECT that these other folks are.
Should Chvala have been investigated at all?
The usual suspects attempt to deny and divert.
Much like Islam you can excuse anything in the name of liberalism.
Rusty should have gone the whole hog and called us non-wingers Islamo-fascists. Come on Rusty you can do it. Why break the streak?
The state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property. (Barkai 1990, pp. 26–27)
Sound like Democrats or Republicans to you ARM?
The citizen in the Fascist State is no longer a selfish individual who has the anti-social right of rebelling against any law of the Collectivity. The Fascist State with its corporative conception puts men and their possibilities into productive work and interprets for them the duties they have to fulfill. - Benito Mussolini
Sound like Republicans or Democrats?
To maintain high employment and minimize popular discontent, fascist governments also undertook massive public-works projects financed by steep taxes, borrowing, and fiat money creation. While many of these projects were domestic—roads, buildings, stadiums
Sounds like they were getting the same advice Krugman gave to Obama.
Most of these descriptions fit that darling of the Hollywood Left, Hugo Chavez a lot better than they fit, for example, Romney.
Fascism is the fraternal twin of communism. I can't imagine why somebody would want to tar supporters of liberal democracy, where the people are sovereign over the government, with that label.
Dim Tim doesn't know that the fascists abolished trade unions. Remind anyone of a party here in the US?
What party "abolished" trade unions here?
Even FDR said public unions were an extremely bad idea since you're negotiating AGAINST the citizenry.
Why won't Republicans vote for Jews in congress?
Can you name any who ran?
Chvala should have sued prosecutors like Club for Growth did to halt the John Doe against him.
Maybe he should have.
You've yet to explain the relevance, however.
First, the communists (and pretty much any totalitarians) always abolish trade unions--any organization not controlled by the state is verboten.
Communists and Nazis treated labor unions identically.
They created "state" unions for employees to join.
Of course. I suspect Club for Growth, Walker, and a host of others are guilty as well.
Chvala was convicted. CFG and Walker aren't even going to get indicted.
Going so far as removing Shirley Abrahamson as Chief.
Yes, making Chief voted by the justices as opposed to being given because somebody hasn't died yet is horrible.
I'm just stunned. I suppose most of you know what goes on here in Althouse threads and engage Garage and ARM for whatever personal reasons animate you, but really.
Garage is a cartoon. His purpose is to derail these threads with "squirrels" and links that in no way support his point, but so many of you dutifully follow him down the rabbit hole and the original thread is lost. Mission accomplished. It is very hard, very hard, not to think that he is being paid for this.
ARM on the other hand is a different story. Today he let the mask slip, as he sometimes does, and the anger inside totally blows away his "i'm just a littlr old moderate gane" game.
ignore them both!
Moderation in the face of extreme stupidity is no virtue.
The mindless name calling directed at the few non-wingers here is so pathetically childish that I usually ignore it but most of the liberals have departed because of these fascist tactics. The fascist tactics of Jew haters who wouldn't vote for poor Eric Cantor. Walking in lockstep with the Nazi's.
>>Moderation in the face of extreme stupidity is no virtue.
Any mirrors in your house?
richard mcenroe @ 3:09,
Your comment is directed at me but I don't understand it. MadisonMan was essentially accused of espousing things that he had not said.
"start using them against Democrats.
They have been. For decades. It is called the 'war on drugs'."
Hilarious. So the drug users are all Democrats ? Nice of you to tell us.
"The fascist tactics of Jew haters who wouldn't vote for poor Eric Cantor. Walking in lockstep with the Nazi's. "
So, Eric Cantor lost because he's a Jew ?
Interesting theory.
It sort of goes along with you Obama voters. Race, color and religion establish turfdom in politics.
Hmmm.
Thanks for sticking up to Madison Man. I found the calling him out comments strange as well. I always thought him more of a libertarian.
You should not have to be a Republican, and I most assuredly am not a Republican, to recognize that David French is guilty of committing journalism in the first degree. Shame on anyone who would shoot the messenger.
Curious, I go back and look through the comments.
Oh. Well, thanks for the support people. I appreciate it.
If the Republicans were just more sensible, I'd be a Republican. Ditto for the Democrats. I mean really, Democrats: Hillary!!!?
ARM has become totally self-refuting at this point. He started out with "they deserved it for not caring about poor people enough" and he's ended with accusing everyone here of wanting to kill Jews.
But the only fascists here are he and garage, who defend the use of the power of the state to silence political opponents. The Jew-hating is optional for Fascists.
Jew hate is very nearly mandatory for the radical left in this country, however.
Gabriel said...
ARM has become totally self-refuting at this point. He started out with "they deserved it for not caring about poor people enough"
This is pathetic bullshit. Typical of the jack-booted fascists who wouldn't vote for Eric Cantor.
Did you enjoy the rally at Nuremberg?
I was around when the John Doe investigations were going on. Here's what I saw.
Walker won the election. The left started a recall. The left began an investigation of his time as county executive (John Doe). The left occupied the Capital building. The left legislators ran out of the state. The left sent the governor of the state and his wife death threats. The left began arresting Walker allies.
This was all OK with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
So no local paper to turn to.
Should we have turned to the Federal government? HA HA HA
The New York Times? HA HA HA
THE ACLU? HA HA HA
We put our heads down and waited for the next election and when we got the chance we voted for Walker and the Republicans. We showed it was the Democrats who were dying, not democracy. I recommend this course of action to the country at large.
Because the left is doing this all over the place: first Walker, then Rick Perry. They want you to give up on democracy. Stay tuned, understand their lies and remember to vote.
Why won't Republicans vote for Jews in congress
Why did the Democrats run Leiberman out of the Democratic Party?
@MadMan, which plank in the Republican platform do you object to most?
@garage, Charles Chvala was the subject of a "John Doe" search, but I do have to ask whether it included predawn police raids on otherwise ordinary citizens?
If people whose only association with Charles Chvala was shared political ideology were treated the way conservative activists were treated by Chisholm and Kluka then I conclude that Wisconsin is a filthy state. I emphatically do not conclude that Chisholm's fishing expedition, abetted by the terminally brain-dead Kluka, were justified.
You are worse than scum, garage. Pond scum at least has a viable ecological niche. I cannot imagine a self-respecting pond that would permit you to float on its surface.
@ARM: Keep digging that hole. You'll be out sooner the faster you dig.
Accuse more and more people of wanting to kill Jews. That's the way to people to accept your arguments and make common cause with those who share your beliefs.
Gahrie said...
Why did the Democrats run Leiberman out of the Democratic Party?
You mean the guy they selected as vice-presidential candidate who received a majority of the country's votes. That Lieberman?
Shame about the war.
ARM's only purpose is attacking everyone else, so much so that he's turned a politically motivated police raid on conservatives into an excuse to attack conservatives. Then he whines because apparently he believes he deserves something other then being treated in kind.
It's a strange internet.
@RIck: The accusations that commenters here desire to kill Jews is just bizarre though.
The struggle over Walker was red state model vs. blue state model. In 2008 the occupations that employed the most people nationwide were: #1 manufacturing and #2 construction. And Wisconsin had more jobs in manufacturing than most states. By 2014 manufacturing was #7 and construction was #12 in terms of jobs and IT was #1, heath care #2 and service #3. So the whole Wisconsin economy has been under threat since 2008. The teachers unions and service unions wanted Wisconsin to respond as did Detroit - tax and spend, unbalanced budgets, corruption and finally bankruptcy. The blue state model in its final phase. Walker wanted to balance the budget, keep taxes down and attract new jobs from the new economy. He thought that the Illinois/Chicago corruption machine would crash like Detroit and its death throes would send businesses fleeing if there was anywhere to go and his plan was to be the place to which they went. The red state model rising.
And Walker succeeded. Wisconsin is not going bankrupt. Wisconsin is restructuring toward the new economy Wisconsin has job growth - not as much as is needed but not a Detroit catastrophe where every year there are fewer jobs.
You would think the Democrats would be glad that the state isn't crashing like Detroit or California. No.
The Democrats DO NOT CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO THE WORKERS. They just don't care. Did any Democrat in Detroit care what would happen to pensions if the city went bankrupt? They did not. They stole and swilled at the public trough and celebrated themselves and left the city in tatters. And the Democrats in Wisconsin wanted to do the same thing to Wisconsin. This is what Democrats do - these days anyhow. THEY DON"T CARE.
And this is the story of Scott Walker - that he managed to stop these rotted corpses of liberalism from feasting in the wreckage of another city and another state. And they went mad and burst into houses and tore up people's rights.
And you can share in the fun. Just vote for the red-state model in all elections. The unions will unmask - it will be Halloween every day for awhile. It will be bad times for housewives like Mrs. Archer. But your children will thank you
Plenty of hysterical whiners here, I'm not one of them.
In principle I don't like any of these investigations of active politicians. Given how crazy partisan a lot of people are it seems they are always prone to abuse. But, after the Clinton debacle, I am not sure that any Republican has much to complain about. They ramped up the stakes for no good reason. It only made Clinton more popular and may help elect his wife.
Gabriel said...
@RIck: The accusations that commenters here desire to kill Jews is just bizarre though.
He'll say anything he thinks will piss someone off. You can't take what loons say seriously.
Rick,
The first "fucker" of The day was dealt by ARM at 8:58. That's what is curious. I can't find what was said prior to that that would enrage him enough to drop his mask like that. And Drago wasn't even involved at that time.
I can't explain it in such an otherwise disciplined troll. Oh well. I guess you can only play act so long before the truth comes out.
"CWJ said...
Rick,
The first "fucker" of The day was dealt by ARM at 8:58. "
Probably woke up with morning wood thinking about how he was going to stick to the conservatives today, then got frustrated when it didn't work out as it did in his fantasy.
You guys are sore losers when someone points our the hypocrisy that generally goes unchallenged around here. If you are going to throw around terms like fascist and police state you probably want to move out of that glass house first.
If hypocrisy really bothered ARM you'd think he'd work on his own. He's claimed conservatives support gestapo tactics because they don't criticize them enough. Yet he didn't criticize these raids and denied that constituted support for them.
Also the conservative "hypocrisy" he alleges actually comes from taking different people's views and conflating them while his own hypocrisy comes from his own words. So everything he criticizes about conservatives is more true of him than they.
Meanwhile he's still here only to attack and whines that others don't treat him with a respect he doesn't offer or therefore deserve in return.
@ARM, you seem to be under the impression that Eric Cantor lost his primary because of his Jewish heritage. That is yet another mistake due to your lack of perception.
The 7th Congressional District is shaped vaguely like a barking dog and stretches from the Tidewater, circles north and west of Richmond, and reaches up past Culpeper almost to the Shenandoah Valley. Except for the Richmond suburbs it is a fairly rural region of the state, with a per capita income of $33,000 (versus a state per capita income of $49,000).
Cantor lost because (1) he started taking his voters for granted and lost touch with them, as exemplified by (2) his support for open immigration. You see, working class people who had fallen on tough times used to be able to pick up odd jobs here and there. But thanks to runaway immigration those jobs are taken up by -- what's the latest euphemism? -- undocumented laborers. The tough times get that much tougher. Eric Cantor forgot that in the end, one needs to represent one's district. Politicians who forget that are called ex-politicians.
@ARM, I have numerous Jewish friends. I recently had to tell one of them that when the pogroms come -- and I no longer think it's an "if" -- they're going to come from the left side of the political spectrum, the side she reflexively votes for. It got her thinking, which is a good thing.
Big Mike - your comment is spot on, but you didn't even need all that. You see, if Republicans hated Jews and wanted them killed, they wouldn't have voted for a Jewish Republican rep in the South in the first place.
Blogger Birches said...
I expect garage to be off the rails, but this display by ARM is truly astounding.
I'll say. He doesn't just sound unreasonable, he sounds truly loony.
Remember all the silly "Republican Jew Hater!!!" talk the next time Obama gives the Israelis a good hard kick in the nuts.
"Typical of the jack-booted fascists who wouldn't vote for Eric Cantor.
Did you enjoy the rally at Nuremberg?"
Hey, great argument on the merits !
NOT.
Come on, You can do better than this.
"You mean the guy they selected as vice-presidential candidate who received a majority of the country's votes. That Lieberman?
Shame about the war."
You mean the guy the Democrats ran against him whose father was a partner in JP Morgan?
Come on, you can do better than this.
You are gonna take it.
Yes, you're gonna tKe it,
You are gonna tKe it,
Evermore!
Their life is condescending,
boring yet never ending.
We want everything,
Everything from you.
We'll fuck the powers that be,
Then video the rapey rapey,
All the while you'lol pay,
Not a thing you'll do.
You are gonna tKe it,
Yes, you're gonna tKe it,
You are gonna take it,
Evermore.
With apologies the Rat or Dee Snyder or somebody.
AJ Hammer Diego Ross?
http://youtu.be/KOqk_q4NLLI
Twisted Sister in the cellR.
Tupac took five bullets and didn't die.
How's about that.
Lots of folks round here, and by here I mean my world Earth, don't understand time.
Wisest thing never is to have music replace understanding.
Perhaps Manson was triggered by this?
One solution would be to ban all potentially harmful music.
Other understandings seem to me racist and hateful Nd they bring me down.
BRING ME DOWN?
YOU CAN'T BRING ME DOWN!
(some heavy metal group who knows, along with what Hitler knew, repetition and big lies like Hillary Clinton is likeable Nd cares about you work)
Nd I hope y'all keep y'alling along y'ally.
---It looks like our current prison system, where millions of people are in prison or gaol for minimal offenses ---
Tell it to the millions of black and poor victims of violence.
My view is this: The great Derek by Rick(y) Gervais made me cry, think about the idiocy, then feel like crying, BUT NOT CRYING, 'bout the fact I cried.
It was when Derek jumped out of the car and ran back toward his father.
The reason I bring it up is my theory is Derek is Hitler (hence the obvious resemblance) re-interpreted as a person (TIME) destined to be the opposite of the Fuhurehruehru fuckheadcunt Hitler.
They haven't broached beheadings in my limited viewings.
Holy fuck what if the end point of Derek is tenderness leads to the gas chamber?
Every once in a while, people decide to scape-goat the "other." They proceed to heap undeserving blame on the "other," to ascribe wild conspiracy theories, to issue threats, to dehumanize, to cause property damage, to lie, to cause legal danger, to cause physical harm, and finally, cause death.
And we all look back and wonder, how can a populace go so far off the rails? When did reason end, and why did it end? At what point did it make logical sense to toss an innocent person into a furnace?
A good friend of mine is Jewish, and I got to hear her say once more, "Never again!"
But my question to her is, never again, what? Nazi Germany didn't begin with tossing Jews into the furnaces, it began with propaganda, othering, scapegoating, and weaponizing government agencies against political opponents.
Because by the time one group of people is on the cusp of tossing another group of people into the ovens, it's way too late. The time to be concerned is far before that point.
I get that some are unhappy with the political results that have occurred in Wisconsin the last few years. But being unwilling to recognize and acknowledge that harassing political opponents is wrong? That is on the long road to tossing political adversaries into ovens.
Anyone by definition unaborted can do better than the clumps flushed, no matter how clinical the setting.
Evil only conflates "clinical" with rape.
Easy answers are abundant yet unprofitable and mostly not that entertaining, but the life sustention abides.
The solution is Christ worship top to bottom at government levels that include direct contact with Superiors (Superiors here defined as those Military +3.15 and all other government employees Superiors minus 2) limited to protection of protection from only themselves.
AReasonableMan said...
Rusty should have gone the whole hog and called us non-wingers Islamo-fascists. Come on Rusty you can do it. Why break the streak?
I'm not the one making excuses, for fascist behavior, you are. And here's the difference between you and me.
If the subject of this political outrage had been a democrat I'd be just as concerned and vocal.
You're as moraly bankrupt as comrade bob.
Rusty, "morally," I'm one of the 1% of the 1%, bub!
The hypocrisy here, which is as obvious as the nose on an elephant, is that Republicans, over the last forty years, have steadily built a police and surveillance state by hammering the republic with 'soft on crime' and 'weak on security'. While the Dems showed no spine in caving in to these canards they were not the drivers of this particular movement. We now have much of the apparatus of a fascist state thanks primarily to the Republicans.
In light of this history, for straight-line Republican voters to come on here and call anyone a fascist is ridiculous. It is not simply that they look stupid and ahistorical but they reveal that they have no intention of correcting their past mistakes. They are actually just fine with our police and security state. For some of these same individuals to claim to be libertarians moves from the absurd to the surreal. How can people be so completely deluded?
McConnell is currently trying to extend surveillance under the Patriot Act.
"The hypocrisy here"...
is that ARM seems to think hypocrisy is a vice even while gleefully engaging in it. Worse he believes others alleged hypocrisy justifies his crapping all over the board to prevent others from engaging each other even while he excuses his own hypocrisy.
And further his allegations of hypocrisy on the part of conservatives is absurd. It's perfectly reasonable to believe police should be aggressive in apprehending criminals while still supporting limits to that policy. ARM only arrives at the "hypocrisy" charge by insisting supporting laws at all means you must also support every tactic used by police.
It's such a fundamentally dishonest position it's quite absurd he considers himself either "reasonable" or a "moderate". That so many people have this sort of delusion does demonstrate how extreme the left is, so that's useful.
Rick, you don't really have a point. The key issue is how our police force, prosecutors and surveillance force gained so much power relative to the people they nominally serve. If you don't want to address that issue that is fine but for people to simply throw out the word fascist every time something in this corrupt system doesn't go their way is not productive.
Ignoring the predominant role of Republican 'law and order' voters in creating this regime is equally unproductive. The current, appalling, system reflects the votes and desires predominantly of Republicans.
"AReasonableMan said...
....but for people to simply throw out the word fascist every time something in this corrupt system doesn't go their way is not productive. "
Between the two of us one has accused others of being fascist, and for that person to whine about others not being "productive" in their comments is idiotic. Do you ever apply any of your standards to yourself? Or do you have special rules for Althouse?
Quit criticizing others as if you have any standing to do so. No matter what failings you point to in others yours are worse. Not only have you engaged in every activity you criticize you're only here to attack others which they are not.
Don't piss on people and whine when they piss back. And certainly don't expect others to forget that's who you are.
@May Bee I don't think this order to remain silent even could pretend to be to protect the target, although maybe that is a carryover from the idea this is a grand jury investigation.
The supposed reason would be to maintain the confidentality of the investigation. This is sometimes done when company's are subpoenaed.
I don't think we ever hear of this being told to ordinary people, or targets, in any other investigation.
If you don't want to have one target warn the other, they do the raid simultaneously, or they say they'll be more lenient.
There's an example of this in the current issue of the New Yorker in the article about the person who might have singlehandedly destroyed the music CD-ROM business.
Telling people not to talk to ther lawyer could not possibly be any kind of a legal requirement, but it might have been an assertion that if they involved a lawyer, they'd go harder on them.
The New Yorker doesn't meantion not talking to a lawyer, but rather not warning a possible co-defendant.
Telling people not to use a certain lawyer (or else they don't get a good deal) is sometimes done in big conspiracy cases.
Jeb Bush, by the way, is now testing out how far you can stretch the envelope with co-ordination.
From: What did the Journal Sentinel know and when did it know it?
“No one connected with the John Doe probe, certainly not any law-enforcement officers or prosecutors, tipped me off to the fact that that home was being raided in plain sight on the east side of Madison, where many of the state’s most liberal residents live. The real mystery, to me, was why only one reporter showed up,” he wrote in an email to Wisconsin Watchdog.
Crap! Forgot to hyperlink:
http://watchdog.org/213772/john-doe-journal-sentinel-jason-stein/?roi=echo3-26255661101-27306216-f00ab126994d28e4459226a3f7767013
ARM, you dumb schmuck, Hitler didn't abolish trade unions. He organized them into a massive national union under his control. He gave them profit-sharing, paid vacations, health care, and seats on corporate boards.
You shouldn't call yourself 'reasonable' for the same reason you can't call yourself 'smart'.
Livermoron said...
Hitler didn't abolish trade unions.
Literally no one other than you believes this to be true. Read a book some time.
@MadMan, which plank in the Republican platform do you object to most?
Anything that has to do with Reproduction or with marriage.
Mitch Daniels was right.
ARM:
I've read plenty of books on Naziism. Many in the original German!
You know nothing of real fact about what happened.
Why don't you try looking it up yourself? Try looking up the Deutsche Arbeiter Front, Wandervoegel, and more.
You are just dumb.
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