Then, after Gaye’s family sued them, Thicke made headlines last year when his deposition leaked with his shocking, embarrassing defense: The singer claimed he was “high on Vicodin and alcohol” during the writing process.
As for all those interviews where he boasted about helping write it and how he was specifically inspired by Gaye’s “Got to Give It Up”? Well, he was lying, Thicke said, and just envious that Williams, also the producer of the song, would get all the glory.
March 10, 2015
"Robin Thicke, Pharrell Williams owe Marvin Gaye’s family $7.4 million for ‘Blurred Lines,’ jury decides."
"The trial was notable primarily because it’s unusual that these battles to go to public.... But this case was messy from the beginning. In August 2013, Thicke, Williams and T.I. filed a preemptive suit claiming no infringement."
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18 comments:
Meh. These were all just knockoffs of the original song, which was by Weird Al.
In principle, this could be a very destructive ruling (more on that in a moment) but there have been rulings for sympathetic plaintiffs in the past that don't seem to be all that far reaching (e.g. Harrison's My Sweet Lord)
In the past, the standard idea is that you could copyright a melody, but not a chord pattern. (No one has a copyright on the 12-bar blues or rhythm changes.) Here the thing that has been "stolen" is, for lack of a better word, a "groove." Now, admittedly, it has been stolen in almost every detail. But it's still just a groove, and until today, I would have thought it was transferable as a 12-bar blues. We will see.
Old story: James Brown is interviewing a guitarist. Asks,"Can you play an E9 chord?" Guitarist say, "Sure" and plays one. JB says, "Yes. But can you play it All. Night. Long?" Does everyone who plays an E9 chord all night long owe James Brown money?
I am progressively less convinced that there is value in the jury system.
"Weird Al" mocks rock & roll music; Spike Jones mocked "Big Band" music. Composer Peter Schickele mocks classical music under the name "P.D.Q. Bach". In 1971, there was a movie called "Silent Running" staring Bruce Dern (implausible plot: space cargo vessels in orbit preserve the last vestiges of Earthly plants), and Peter Schickele "wrote" the score - by plagiarizing DOZENS of then-popular works, three bars at a time. It's a musical hodge-podge, of course, but it sort-of weirdly works.
This fracas reminds me of that. Aside from one sequence of chimes and drums, I don't hear a whole lot of similarity.
For a short interesting comparison see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziz9HW2ZmmY
Whoever invented that riff cam up with something great.
It's not the same song. It has similarities to the song. So now you can be sued for songs that sound a bit like other songs? Or are reminiscent of other songs?
Then, after Gaye’s family sued them, Thicke made headlines last year when his deposition leaked with his shocking, embarrassing defense: The singer claimed he was “high on Vicodin and alcohol” during the writing process.
It's the people who bought it who should sue. They must have been high on Vicodin and alcohol during the listening process.
Copyrights are also ridiculously long.
"For a short interesting comparison see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziz9HW2ZmmY
Whoever invented that riff cam up with something great."
Again (and if there are lawyers on this blog who know the law, please correct me - I learned this stuff from other musicians, so it has to be true) I don't think you can copyright a riff. Maybe a distinctive bass line, but if that's the case, then there will be others suing the Gaye family. The judge initially refused to let the jury hear the song. Insisted they work from the sheet music. Thicke and Williams may win this on appeal.
The melody line sounds nothing like the melody line of Got To Give it Up. E bass line sounds a bit like the bass
Line. Only at bar 3 or 4 it changes to a different chord.
What sounds similar is that it's done in falsetto, and there's a background "whoo" noise in both.
So it's really the rhythm that sounds similar. When I first heard I thought they were doing a derivation of the song Got To give It Up. But you shouldn't be able to sue for a song that sounds like the style of someone else, unless you lift the melody line.
Think about how many rock/pop songs sound like other rock/pop songs.
As a trial lawyer, this was a one way bet since getting past summary judgment. Humans are pattern seeking machines - it is a prime feature of our conciousness. At trial, you state that the defendants stole the song, and play them side by side. Over and over. The jurors will find similarities. If you play Wagner and Blurred Lines enough times you will find similarities.
Well, somewhere George Harrison is saying "Welcome to the club."
Except in George Harrison's case, it really was the same song, down to the background vocals.
I don't think George meant to copy the tune, he just ended up in the same place, whereas as Thicke and Williams deliberately started in the same place, and went somewhere slightly different. Different enough, in my view. We'll see how the appeal turns out.
Except in George Harrison's case, it really was the same song, down to the background vocals.
I think there must be a case to be made for familiarity.
Being of a certain age, I remember when "He's So Fine" was a big hit and I sung it everywhere I went. Needless to say, I was a big Beatles fan as well.
When the controversy came out I was shocked. I heard a vague similarity, but nothing more. I thought the suit would be tossed out on its ear.
Since I knew both songs intimately, I could easily differentiate the two and thought they had virtually nothing in common.
I now believe a casual listener would not. Since I had never heard "Blurred Lines", I went to the youtube link above and thought, "Hell yeah....that's a blatant ripoff".
But if dance music were my thing, I might say, "Whatchu talking bout, Willis...they are nothing alike".
What about "Every Breath You Take?" "Ghostbusters" is just "Gloria."
They don't sound the same to me at all.
Ghostbusters is Huey Lewis' song I Want a New Drug. This has already been proven in court.
Bob R said...
"For a short interesting comparison see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziz9HW2ZmmY
Whoever invented that riff cam up with something great."
Again (and if there are lawyers on this blog who know the law, please correct me - I learned this stuff from other musicians, so it has to be true) I don't think you can copyright a riff. Maybe a distinctive bass line, but if that's the case, then there will be others suing the Gaye family. The judge initially refused to let the jury hear the song. Insisted they work from the sheet music. Thicke and Williams may win this on appeal.
I don't know enough about the subject to agree or disagree. I note only that it is a very catchy beat. You can't ignore it.
"Footloose" by Kenny Loggins
"Authority Song" by Meloncamp
both great songs but very similar.
"Stranglehold" by Nugent
"Bullet the Blue Sky" by U2
Incredibly similar and yet both good songs i could listen to over and over.
Joe Satriani Sued Cold Play for their Viva La Vida copying his If I could Fly.
I don't get the lawsuits but, hey, if it copies substantially it might make sense.
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