Pushback the Night?
The question in the post title is from Cathy Young (quoted by Instapundit).
The question that begins this post is my suggestion for the name of the movement — a suggestion intended only as dark humor (I hasten to add for the that's-not-funny crowd). It's a variation on Take Back the Night.
Reactions have consequences.
A correction is needed, but that doesn't mean you should advocate for something you'd like to call "pushback against the anti-’rape culture’ movement." Think about what is wrong with that phrase.
1. It's hard to understand with that "against the anti-" double negative. There are better ways to be positive.
2. No one wants to be "against... anti-rape"! You're relying on people to bunch "anti-rape" with "culture" — nudging with quotation marks — and to know that you can be both anti-rape and anti-"rape culture." That's a distinction that can be discussed calmly to good effect, so how can we get into a workable relationship where we can have a calm discussion?
3. No pushing! Eschew violent imagery. We don't need a "pushback" against a "movement." We need people to calm down and recognize that we want harmony and a good experience for everyone on campus. We don't want rape and we don't want kangaroo-court justice.
4. And we should want much more than that. We want ample and fair protection for anyone accused of misconduct, and we want young adults to develop rewarding relationships and good moral character. The present-day stress on 1. not raping anybody and 2. not utterly railroading the accused is shockingly debased. Where is the love? We need much higher aspirations.
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What about the --
2016 "Take Back The White House" campaign of HRC?
How about we just tell feminists to stop acting hysterically?
...and we want young adults to develop rewarding relationships and good moral character...
Oh, we want that, do we? Well then push-back the Federal Government.
Federal control of welfare and education have destroyed the Family. Do not look to Government for moral guidance. It will not be found there.
I hate this whole rape debate. I hate that I am forced to defend oafish behavior (Paglia's word) even the behavior of cads, because I think that the right to due process is a fundamental, foundational right in our democracy.
That doesn't mean that I think that somebody who would roofie my daughter's , or anybody's daughter's drink shouldn't spend years in jail.
This has to do, I think, with excessive abstraction and fetishation of the concept of "consent." Consent can be given in an infinite number of ways. To suggest that it can be revoked purely inside the mind of the female partner is ridiculous.
It is almost as if feminists hate our species.
It is almost as if feminists hate our species.
Well...you're half right....
"How about we just tell feminists to stop acting hysterically?"
I read somewhere recently — or somebody told me — that men are actually more emotional than women and that it seems otherwise because it is more necessary for men to hold in the emotion to avoid getting into fights and other trouble. In this view, women are just more free to express emotion.
But the truth is, we are all human, and we all have emotion interwoven with all of our thinking, and that is a necessary and valuable part of humanity. It gives us the capacity to love one another.
Find the love, college students... and everybody.
I think violent imagery is more apt since the sissies are so opposed to it.
Re: "But the truth is, we are all human, and we all have emotion interwoven with all of our thinking, and that is a necessary and valuable part of humanity. It gives us the capacity to love one another. "
From Dale Carnegie:
The Big Secret of Dealing with People
“When dealing with people, let us remember we are not dealing with creatures of logic. We are dealing with creatures of emotion…”
Of course, I came across this in reading how Charles Manson used Carnegie's guidance to pimp his women and control his followers.
Thus, all people who follow emotion would be Manson's bitches.
I have extrapolated.
I am Laslo.
"Where is the love? We need much higher aspirations."
Good luck with that. Chivalry isn't just dead, its derided.
And pretty much every kid going to college has seen copious amounts of hard-core, horrendous porn.
And once in college you can be sure that traditional morality and the religious impulse it comes from will be mocked and portrayed as a tool of patriarchal oppression.
We are in the post-Christian secular utopia where all decisions are made free from concern about a mythical God that atheists have been striving for.
Good luck with that.
Maybe we should call it the Year of Female Sexual Responsibility. They earth at young women take responsibility for their actions on campus, and stop drinking to insensibility if they don't want want to get laid by random guys. Both sexes are doing it, but the guys tend to be more realistic - they only want together laid. The co-eds seem to also want to get laid, but by an alpha male that they can bring home to meet the parents.
exaggerated or uncontrollable emotion or excitement, especially among a group of people.
This seems to sum up the modern feminist movement.
Sorry, iPad problems. Should have been: "The year that young women take responsibility for their actions, and stop drinking to insensibility if they don't want to get laid by random guys".
And what is love?
You speak of it as if it is some how transcendent.
But it is just a brain state caused by hormones and receptor cells.
In any event, you should stop trying to impose your morality on others.
Like Ralph Hyatt, I am curious about Professor Althouse's definition of love. Also, her definition of "good sex" as I recall her using that phrase in a different thread about this topic.
Seriously, we now live in a society where movies are produced which promulgate the message that if a porn star moves in next to you, you can have sex with her as long as stop being studious and conscientious and instead adopt a self-created code of behavior that licenses you to do pretty much anything you want to do.
And that creating and living by such a self-created code is the pinnacle of morality.
There needs to be a hard right pushback on college campuses over EVERYTHING, ASAP.
The pendulum swing has gone insane. Time for a massive correction.
Sure, it'll suck for some people, but gotta break some eggs here and there.
I hate this whole rape debate. I hate that I am forced to defend oafish behavior (Paglia's word) even the behavior of cads, because I think that the right to due process is a fundamental, foundational right in our democracy.
That these feminists aren't seeking to end co-ed dorms or alcohol availability near campuses shows that they are not serious.
Take away those two things and the "problem" will likely go away.
But they want the liberty of these without any semblance of personal responsibility on the women.
If I had daughters, I'd tell them it is fucking moronic to get drunk around people you do not know well. It's dumb to get drunk period, but around people you don't know if really, really fucking dumb.
And if the idea of spending many years with a dude is loathesome, you probably shouldn't fuck him. If you get pregnant, that dude will be involved in your life --- if you're lucky --- for a long, long time.
I just tell my sons that if a girl is drunk, don't be alone with her for any reason. And if you don't want to raise a kid, you best not stick your dick into a vagina.
The whole thing is a manufactured publicity campaign in the first place, intended to stir up the Democratic base.
"Find the love, college students... and everybody."
That is what is causing the trouble, for crissakes !
College students binge drink. When I was in college I drank a lot more than I ever did after. Even so, I got straight As once I settled down a bit. Classes were tougher, based on what I saw of my youngest daughter's course materials. Some of what she was taught was lies. I helped her figure that out and she is at least as conservative as I am.
She saw none of the "rape culture" and neither did my middle daughter ten years ago.
The hysteria is political and is bing stoked for political reasons. Claire McCaskill is a despicable human being; and fat, too.
There is religion and there is religiosity. There is rape and there is rapiosity. There lately has been a rapid rise in vapid rapietists without a corresponding rise in actual sex crimes. Rapiety should neither be condemned nor encouraged. It's to feminism what belly button bling is to libertinism--a fad that will pass.
"How about we just tell feminists to stop acting hysterically?"
How about...
"Who'd want to rape you, anyway?"
But higher aspirations would require actual vision and courage on the part of the people who run these places, and some recognition that 20-year-olds are not quite actually adults. Neither of these things necessarily increase alumni donations or a school's rankings in US News & World Report, so I am not optimistic.
Planned Intimacy will relieve participants of legal and moral liability.
I recall a movie where government planning includes intimacy and parenthood in order to secure taxable assets and reduce unwanted lives. The created state was characterized by male and female profiling, as well as womb banks and sperm depositors. It was notable for its forward thinking about progressive morality, typically realized in the privacy of a government-approved bedroom and hatchery.
Bring Back the Knight.
Relations between the sexes are better than when Obama took office.
Right?
This nonsense was going on even back in the late 70s when I was in college.
I wonder how often those 'special' rape-report phones-on-poles around campuses are used and how much it cost to install and maintain them. Now that everyone has a smartphone, what's the point of them?
"Anti-anti-Communism" had a good run in progressive circles. Of course, as Prof. Althouse has said, only dweebish old white men were anti-Communism in the first place. The kewl kids had a properly ironic attitude about gulags, though not about rape.
"The present-day ... is shockingly debased... We need much higher aspirations."
Indeed. But what drove us into the gutter?
College is way overpriced.
Don't let the small issues distract from that.
1. Yes; the "Pushback the Night" meme is fraught with public relations danger. Still, I like it because it is all about competing slogans. It's not funny to joke about someone's rape, but it's okay to joke about hyperpartisan feminist sloganeering.
2. The "anti-anti" appellation can be a tough one to pull off, but it has been done very successfully on at least one topic. That is, "the anti-antiterror Left," as popularized by James Taranto of the Wall Street Journal and several others. "The anti-antiterror Left" is a name that sticks, rightly, and works.
3. Yes, 2015 is going to be a big year to substantively push back on the subject of campus sexual assault. Because the proponents of new Title IX strictures have gone so far off the rails. And because the Obama Administration, through the Department of Education Office of Civil Rights has dug in so deep on the subject. And because Sens. McAskill, Blumenthal, and Gillibrand seem so willing to use it for political gain. And because there are always the lawyers (there are ALWAYS the lawyers) who will see an opening to sue institutions of higher education on behalf or wrongfully-disciplined male students. And because we're ramping up for a war of gender issues in 2016.
If men and women would simply behave as gentlemen and ladies this problem would solve itself - and most other 'concerns' as well.
It's not anti-anti-rape. It's anti-moral panic.
Equating pro-due process with pro-crime is one of the oldest rhetorical tricks used by those who spread moral panics.
Lets push back on the whole society is racist and hates blacks meme. And lets similarly push back on the the whole society is sexist and condones and sets up a race culture for women.
Both postions are absurd on their face, and having to cater to such extremists is the first problem needing to be addressed.
That doesn't mean I'm for racism or rape.
When times are tough people turn to Laslo. Here: let me help.
Ask any prospective college-age female partner what she thinks of Lena Dunham. The answer should give you all you need to know about the prospective bats in their attic, and act accordingly.
For an earlier generation the name to ask was Janeane Garofalo. Same theory.
I am Laslo.
"How about we just tell feminists to stop acting hysterically?"
Absolutely not! The longer the Left's most toxic actors are front and center, the quicker the masses turn their backs on them.
@Althouse, we cannot get to your #4 and go through #3. You and your fellow 21st century liberals have set the bounds for a "debate" that explicitly includes violence, not least of which is the vandalizing of the Phi Kappa Psi fraternity house on the UVa campus after it became clear that the Rolling Stone article was a hoax based on a young woman seriously in need of psychiatric counseling.
There is no calm discussion. The time for that was years ago and you -- YOU! -- sat on your hands and offered up something along the lines of "oh, my." There is no love to be found. You stood idly by allowing your fellow 21st century liberals to sow the wind; now reap the whirlwind.
"But the truth is, we are all human, and we all have emotion interwoven with all of our thinking, and that is a necessary and valuable part of humanity. It gives us the capacity to love one another. "
And yet is the very thing that every demagogue since time immemorial has used to rile the mob. A lot of people seemed prone to manipulation of their emotions and will in turn do potentially harmful things.
Not saying we need to all be Spock, but emotions are the currency of the ideologues.
On a logical level, if rape culture was really that bad on campus no one would let their daughers attend. But the feminists change the dynamic from a place where almost no rapes occur to a place where there's a rape behind 1 in 4 doors. That's just twisted.
"Where is the love?" Indeed. Good point.
Pushback... Instapundit likes the word 'pushback.' He uses it a lot, and he has become shrill in his anti-feminism and anti-Obamism, which is making it harder to read him.
Calm... that's a good word. Calmly discussing things, with all our thoughts and emotions intertwined with one another.
May you have a calm new year!
"Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., during an interview reported by Chuck Raasch of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, indicated that she was not happy about disputing statistics regarding campus sexual assault.
“Frankly, it is irritating that anybody would be distracted by which statistics are accurate,” McCaskill said."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/claire-mccaskill-statistics-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-statistics/article/2557887
Just like what a demagogue would say. Arent the "statistics" what are driving the narrative that there is a rape culture? if 1 in 4 women are getting raped then there would be a rape culture. But if only .6 % of rapes are occuring, then perhaps there is no epidemic after all and lefties are engaged in hysterics.
Do we really neeed to take back the night for .6% of women and treat that as a rape culture?
If you want real rape culture take a look at Haight Ashbury in 1967.
Hippie girls used as disposable sex bags. Their daughters grew up suspicious of men, and now fight for their Mothers' Lost Honor through the promulgation of Rape Theory.
Pinata, hung.
I am Laslo.
Individual dignity. Intrinsic value. Go forth and reconcile.
"Rape culture" = Incubi v2.0
"We need people to calm down and recognize that we want harmony and a good experience for everyone on campus."
Who is this "we" you speak of?
I think the federal monies and attendant regulations are at the heart of the abuse.This whole idea of Universities having their own (speech)laws and legal system needs to be dismantled. It's just another example of the Two Americas result of public sector distortions.
But I find Michael K's front line reporting of his daughter's experiences encouraging...even with these gems having been unleashed:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/most-hateful-quotes-of-2014/
"Pushback... Instapundit likes the word 'pushback.' He uses it a lot, and he has become shrill in his anti-feminism and anti-Obamism, which is making it harder to read him. "
Says another candidate for moral panic.
jr,
Yes..it is telling how stats are fundamental..until they don't support the desitred narrative:
Julia Horowitz, a journalist at University of Virginia’s school newspaper, wrote that while the Rolling Stone “gang rape” story may be false, “from where I sit in Charlottesville, to let fact checking define the narrative would be a huge mistake.”
#TakeBackRape
"Innocence before guilt"
"Take back your right"
"What do we want? Due process. When do we want it? Now."
"How about we just tell feminists to stop acting hysterically?"
How about...
"Who'd want to rape you, anyway?"
"Don't flatter yourself" also works.
Just like what a demagogue would say. Arent the "statistics" what are driving the narrative that there is a rape culture? if 1 in 4 women are getting raped then there would be a rape culture. But if only .6 % of rapes are occuring, then perhaps there is no epidemic after all and lefties are engaged in hysterics.
I'd ask a question of feminists who buy that stat:
Let's say there's a local restaurant. And 1/5 of all patrons for (x) period of time got food poisoning when they ate there.
Would YOU go there? Would YOU eat at that place?
Why do these people assume young women are going to willingly pay insane amounts of money to go to a place with a higher rape rate than almost any city.
...and why don't cities AROUND colleges (such as Madison, WI or Columbia, SC) have the same massive rape rate that the college has?
Julia Horowitz, a journalist at University of Virginia’s school newspaper, wrote that while the Rolling Stone “gang rape” story may be false, “from where I sit in Charlottesville, to let fact checking define the narrative would be a huge mistake.”
Note: she's a JOURNALISM student who is saying that facts really aren't important when compared to a narrative.
And people think we're KIDDING when we say the media will happily push a narrative over facts?
@damikesc, while you're at it, you might ask the University of Virginia and the Charlottesville police how's come a serial rapist was able to operate in Charlottesville and no one seems to have been concerned in the slightest with stopping him?
He should have been easy to identify: 6' 2" tall, black, wears his hair in dreadlocks. Nevermind. I can see why there was no hurry to catch him.
How about "PUSHBACK THE LIE?" It's both more accurate and more appropriate....
What is required is: Due process; And, that based on provable facts.
(I might add: Severe punishment of those making false accusations.)
Forget it, Walter. It's Charlottesville.
As much as I love C'ville, there is no more wretched hive of scum and villainy than UVA, when it comes to political correctness.
That a "journalist" at The Daily Cavalier would write something that vacuous surprises me not in the least.
Well, Mr. Jefferson always did have a hardon for things French. It stands to reason that his intellectual descendants would favor the Napoleonic Code when it comes to the presumption of guilt. Perhaps they should build a guillotine in front of the Rotunda for the 1,900 or so rapists presumably matriculated at UVA. I can't see how anything less than blood will satisfy the feminists.
"Who is this "we" you speak of?"
Me and all the people who can see that I'm talking sense. I'm not a politico or ideologue. Straighten up and acknowledge that I'm seeing clearly and getting it right. You are the "we." Come on!
You know the best reason to oppose the pushback against the rape culture meme, and all the false rape accusations is because it is bad for women, and good for men.
Whatever you call it, it should be made clear that the "anti-rape culture" folks have made it absolutely clear that they actually favor more rape than less. When told rapes are at an all time low, they get pissed. When common sense advice for avoiding rape is made, such as not getting wasted in the company of drunk horny young men, these folks get indignant. Such advice is not welcome. They've even redefined sexual assault and rape to include consensual sex that the female later regrets. Also, they've gone so far as to make up false allegations of rape just to get more PR for their "cause", which has the effect of making actual rape victims less believable. They've also made many accusations of rape, but has refused to identify the rapists, thus endangering many other potential rape victims. These "anti-rape culture" advocates get more power and prestige and dollars from more rapes and thus are interested in the most rapes, real or imagined, possible.
As such, the anti anti-rape culture crowd is actually anti-rape
Straighten up and acknowledge that I'm seeing clearly and getting it right.
No, ma'am, you aren't. You are years behind the curve. The Democrats are owned by an extreme outgrowth of liberalism that not only advocates violence, but is something that one cannot discuss matters with, cannot debate with, cannot negotiate in good faith with. They can only be suppressed. The vision you have cannot be realized absent their complete suppression.
"I read somewhere recently — or somebody told me — that men are actually more emotional than women and that it seems otherwise because it is more necessary for men to hold in the emotion to avoid getting into fights and other trouble"
Um..Bill Burr, for one ;)
http://tinyurl.com/pgfwgr3
The 1 in 5 statistic, the UVa frat-rape claim, and other "proofs" of the "rape culture" were implausible from the outset, yet they were taken seriously by the media and politicos until disproved, and the disproof hasn't inhibited their proponents. Why? They are part of an ideological offensive. If you take absurd claims like this seriously, you are part of the problem. Rape isn't laughable, but "rape culture" is, and we should laugh at it.
and..this seems relevant to arguments that shift when facts no longer support: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNSt3wJXZk0
I'm with Ralph Hyatt. The song "Because The Night" comes to mind which is about love and lovers. I think current young couples maybe see sex apart from love, or don't see the love part at all. And two weeks ago Patti Smith sang her trademark tune at the Vatican Christmas concert.
When times are tough people turn to Laslo.
Thank you, Laslo. You made an old man chortle. Happy Holidays.
The problem with the 'anti-rape' groups is they are anti many more things than rape. It is that portion that must be combated.
FIRE has a guide 'FIRE's guide to Due Process and Fair Procedure'. How about 'Pro Fair Procedure'?
Just thinking outside the box here..but what involved parent would surrender their sweet baby girl to an environment where over her four-year matriculation she stood a 20% chance of being raped? And surrender moreover, what, $40K/year for the privilege?
"The problem with the 'anti-rape' groups is they are anti many more things than rape. It is that portion that must be combated."
Hmmm..instead of holding feet to the fire on their claimed statistics etc, calling them out on unspoken concerns? If there is difficulty with the former..
Over Thanksgiving weekend, five freshman boys at William Paterson University in New Jersey allegedly gang-raped a freshman coed. She went to the police, and they were arrested and charged with major felonies including aggravated sexual assault and false imprisonment, and they are now facing possible terms of up to 50 years imprisonment. http://www.nj.com/passaic-county/index.ssf/2014/12/wpu_rape_case_what_we_know_what_we_dont_know.html. For some reason, the media and feminist discussions of campus rape have completely ignored this apparently horrible crime. I can't imagine why that might be.
@Douglas:
Yes...there is an interesting fact that is implied loudly, but never explicitly stated.
Of course, it fits a pattern, doesn't it? Both the fact itself, and its omission from the story.
The first day I read the "1 in 5" statistic, I googled Clery report data for my daughter's enormous state university.
The result was <1%, not 20%.
Then I googled my alma mater, Harvard, and the entire Univ. of California system.
The results were equally low.
I would follow my daughter around campus with a loaded shotgun if I thought she had a 1 in 5 chance of being raped, and I know no parent who wouldn't.
Big Lies need to be smacked down hard, and their proponents need to be shamed, ostracized, thrown out of office and removed from civil society.
The "Women earn 77 cents" meme has been around for decades and seems to be a perrenial; no amount of debunking ever causes it to wither.
In McCarthy's heyday, few were willing to oppose him because most realized that, as wild and reckless as his accusations might be, there really were communists and they really were working to establish tyranny. And so HUAC and others were not stopped until they'd done a great deal of damage.
Today, as distasteful as "accused men don't need no stinkin' rights" anti-rape crusade may be, most realize that there really are rapists, and they really do injure and abuse.
So perhaps in a few decades the federal government's attempt to deny due process to those accused of on-campus sex crimes will be viewed with the same distate McCarthyism is viewed today, but, it's hard to see any correction coming along any time soon.
There'll always be pushback against overreach. The SJWs here overreached, big time. They took something that should have been about making rape rarer and easier to prevent (and harder to get away with) and turned it into the usual SJW show trial mob justice mess.
I see this less as a victory for anti-anti-rapists (would that be "pro-rapists"?) and more the reassertion of the seriousness of this particular type of crime, and the need to properly balance justice with the rights of the accused. Just like with other serious crimes.
Let the SJWs deteriorate into irrelevancy. The adults are talking now.
@RealAmerican: That sounds like what I've suspected for quite a while about "anti-abortion".
Why isn't anyone wondering whether these cases of "Leftist" overreach are really Leftist? Because it certainly seems like something a Republican strategist would dream up.
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