The Daily Hampshire Gazette, which first covered the story, quoted one Smith sophomore, Cecelia Lim, as saying, “it felt like she was invalidating the experience of black lives.”...
“I regret that I was unaware the phrase/hashtag 'all lives matter' has been used by some to draw attention away from the focus on institutional violence against Black people,” [Smith College president Kathleen McCartney wrote].... “It minimizes the anti-blackness of this the current situation; yes, all lives matter, but not all lives are being targeted for police brutality. The black students at this school deserve to have their specific struggles and pain recognized, not dissolved into the larger student body."
१० डिसेंबर, २०१४
The president of Smith College apologizes for saying "all lives matter."
Why? Because the slogan is "black lives matter."
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
पोस्ट्स
१६८ टिप्पण्या:
black lives aren't being targeted for police brutality. That lie leaves the protesters without any moral authority at all. Which is why millions of Americans are ignoring the liars.
More popcorn.
Let academia reap the harvest of all those "studies" programs they fostered. May their endowments wilt under the punishment of all the Title IX lawsuits brought by both men and women...
All lives matter but some lives matter more than others. Noted.
They caught her telling non-racist truth. No wonder she apologized. That was a Gruber in the first degree.
Any man's death diminishes me, but my attention is favored nation or something...
Anthony Scalia ;)
"All lives matter" minimizes nurture of biases to become prejudices.
Individual dignity matters.
Intrinsic value matters.
It's unfortunate that the president apologized and, in so doing, promoted a cause of prejudice.
Sebastian: "All lives matter but some lives matter more than others"
This could be the lead marketing catch phrase for a Kennedy family biopic!
Don't you dare "other" me!
Unless it's when I want victim status, then, Don't you dare do anything other than "other" me!
Did I get that right?
Postpone Final Exams!
Call in the grief counselors!
Board up the windows!
The students have been offended!
Teachable moment missed.
All lives matter in the following, descending order......
Now watch the struggle to prioritize the list. Although old, white males can be pretty assured to come in last place.
Stupid feminist privilege recipient learns that a white woman is still a white.
Dueling affirmative rewards.
The forced public groveling ... it's so 1930s USSR, so 1966-76 PRC.
What next? Airplaning? Forced parading through streets wearing shaming boards?
Black lives do matter, though. White lives matter but that doesn't need to be said.
Pogo asks what's next.
These folks are over in former Puritan-land.
Bring back the stockade to allow pelting with fruits and veggies.
Scarlet letters, too.
Oh the Shame!
She's a white woman. There were lots of witches in New England who were white women.
And we know what they did to witches.
That's the delightful thing about watching those in the hyper-PC mode:they have run out of serious racist targets, and are now turning in each other for the slightest of missteps. They used to complain, with justification, that some were passed to them. Then it turned to "you're not really with us." Now they complain that "you're not with us enough. "
"Go to Smith, she couldn't even spell it"
/obligatory quotes.
This president has no courage.
I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Old white males are not last in the eyes of the left. That place is reserved for unborn babies of any and any or all ethnic, sexual, racial or other description applied to a person.
Too close to a pro-life slogan for comfort?
Although old, white males can be pretty assured to come in last place.
add "piano playing hetrosexual" to that and you have a line by Clint Eastwood in "In the Line of Fire"
Good opportunity for President Obama to step in as a uniter.
Bet he doesn't take advantage of it. But at least him being President is forcing the Democrats to take ownership, right? I mean, just look at how they handled the torture report!!
There is a finite of grief to go around. That's why I go around to funerals and yell "I TOO HAVE SUFFERED GRIEF!!!!"
all black lives matter
...not so much.
Defriend her! Twice! First for the oversight, second for the correction.
Isn't the prostestors issue about black male lives? Why are women, including the head of an all female college, trying to insert themselves into this issue? Who are killed more by police, white men or black women?
Seriously? Seriously? Dumb,dumb dumb.
Vicki from Pasadena
So, it would be ok with her if the police failed to respond to crimes on her campus, especially ones where she is the victim, since she is whitel and only black lives matter???
"Some recent adorable Tumblr posts pointed out that not everyone who talks about social justice is a social justice warrior. There are also 'social justice clerics, social justice rogues, social justice rangers, and social justice wizards'. Fair enough... But there are also social justice chaotic evil undead lich necromancers." -- Scott Alexander
The behavior of blacks is the sole reason that they are in trouble with the cops. They simply want to be able to act like savages and yet still demand all the benefits of civilization. It does not work that way.
I am ashamed of this academic for backpedaling on this matter. Blacks bring it on themselves, and there is no reason not to call a spake a spade.
Where is the "lameness" tag?
What's more fun than watching liberals trip over each other because their well-intentioned blather is tossed into the woodchipper of hypersensitivity? Yesterday the anti-KKK sculpture at the University of Iowa, today the president of Smith. More cowbell please!
The writer John Leo used to present the "Sheldon Hackney Award" to the most cowardly, craven, politically correct university president of the year. Named after a former University of Pennsylvania president.
It used to be an annual award, but we'd need a monthly version these days.
We are an utterly juvenile nation that deserves whatever's coming.
Sad. Kneel down to the altar of liberalism.
The Democrat Party is frantic to avoid the splintering of the black vote and will do anything to divide them from everyone else by crying racism at every opportunity. Plantation politics.
I mean, in the context of a specific protest centered around a perceived problem black men have, changing the slogan from Black Lives Matter to All Lives Matter does change the focus (from anti-racism to anti-police brutality, etc) so the objectors do have a point. Whether the Pres. of a famously Progressive college is obligated to mirror the exact phrasing, meaning, etc of a specific group of protestors in order to be considered a good lil' liberal, that's another point entirely--and a much funnier one from here on the sidelines.
Conform and congratulate yourself for your conformity while proclaiming to the world what a free thinker you are, white woman!
"but not all lives are being targeted for police brutality"
Could a grammar savant explain this phrase? Whence the word "for"?
Here's another way to write it, but it feels a little too kinetic to be a match:
"but not all lives are being targeted by brutal police"
Kelly Thomas says, "Tell me about it"
The thesis that "blacks are being targeted for being black" is simply untenable, no matter how well it sells.
Thus it should be demolished. Because it's false.
I mean, er, if truth matters, I guess.
(There are things to complain about regarding the black experience in the US, and black people are arrested and jailed out of proportion to their population.
But the reason simply isn't "because cops and judges and laws are racist against black people".
[Oh, some are, but not enough to be The Main Cause; actual bigotry against black people is marginal in terms of outcome at the high level.]
That's too easy, and pretending it's the reason leads to "fixes" that don't fix anything.
BarrySanders20 wrote -
"Don't you dare "other" me!
Unless it's when I want victim status, then, Don't you dare do anything other than "other" me!
Did I get that right?"
Yep. I think so. The apology is worse than the original supposed offence.
Keep picking at that wound lest it heal.
Who does it serve to let black people think white people think their lives don't matter?
If there was intentional police targeting of black people and unnecessary default to deadly force on the part of police when dealing with black people, repeating the banal statement "all lives matter" would be a way of obscuring a problem. The fact that all lives do (or should) matter does not mean it is the appropriate response when someone says "black lives matter." The person who says black lives matter is trying to make a statement that society at large does not value black life. The appropriate non-glib response is to argue from the facts that society does value black life. Imagine a demonstration in New York in 1938 where people were marching with signs saying "Jewish lives matter" in response to escalating Nazi oppression. It would still be true in that case to respond that "all lives matter" but it wouldn't be constructive. I am not at all saying that black life in America is as fraught with peril as Jewish life in Germany - just pointing out that you can establish cases where stating a general truth is not the appropriate response to a specific assertion.
My first thought was that she had it right the first time.
Then I realized that if only black lives matter, then shouldn't it be open season on the white protesters?
Just askin'
I suspect there's some ultimate relationship between the hands that wring and the hands that strangle, but I can't put my finger on it.
"The black students at this school deserve to have their specific struggles and pain recognized, not dissolved into the larger student body."
Speaking of blacks on campus, maybe she could work this in with the "gang rape" meme. It turns out that there actually have been some gang rapes on campus recently, they just weren't perpetrated by white frat boys. How about "Black crimes don't matter"? Can we get a ruling on that slogan?
I stopped watching news on TV around 2000; I got tired of newscasters YELLING at me. So tired of the dramatic anger and chirpy, plastic newscasters.
I keep hoping...and hoping...that some day I'll get so disgusted with the news via the internet, I'll finally stop compulsively surfing the web, reading about stupidity upon stupidity upon stupidity.
I feel that day approaching, and its getting closer every time I read about morons like this academic administrator. This, on top of the story about the woman offended by some Hanukkah wrapping paper that incorporated a swastika-like pattern (which I had to HUNT for), causing it to be pulled nation-wide....
Its all too much stupidity. A person can only take so much.
Self-destructive stupidity takes over.
The Vice Chancellor For Diversity at Smith may have had to remind McCartney of her place in the Progressive Stack.
Derbyshire's theory is that blacks are just stupid, and black societies are cesspits because there aren't enough smart blacks to support the rest.
I'd be interested in supplying contrary evidence, if I were black.
That doesn't seem to be in the cards. They've got their appointed clownish black leaders and are going with it.
Imagine the sound of disapproval! The sound of approval is bad enough.
Who does it serve to let black people think white people think their lives don't matter?
There you go again, MayBee, making sense.
Smith to bed, Mount Holyoke to wed
Shanna said...
"Go to Smith, she couldn't even spell it"
Hehehe, love that movie!
Hilarious. Everyday, the left reaches new heights of self-parody. And, increasingly, toxicity.
Lesbian lives matter big time at Smith.
Northampton is the lesbo capitol of the world!
rhhardin said...
"Derbyshire's theory is that blacks are just stupid, and black societies are cesspits because there aren't enough smart blacks to support the rest."
It's a bit more complicated than that, and it's not Derbyshire's theory. It is actually due to a guy who calls himself Griffe du Lion. He is probably an academic, but does not want his real identity known, for obvious reasons.
http://tinyurl.com/yo85xv
When will we see a real man (or woman) who stands behind what he says and refuses to apologize but reinforces it by repeating it even more strongly?
Charles Barkely showed such courage a few days ago
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/12/3/7326217/charles-barkley-ferguson-comments-protests-race-relations
Maybe the school newspaper could publish a weekly rank order list of what lives matter most. That would be helpful for us.
rhhardin said...
"I'd be interested in supplying contrary evidence, if I were black."
The difficulty is that there are some very intelligent black people, but that is not really "contrary evidence" to Smart Fraction theory. The mean IQ for blacks in the US is about a standard deviation lower than whites, and it is even lower in many African nations. It is far from clear how public policy should address this issue, but the current approach - outraged denial - is unlikely to produce a resolution.
@etbass
gamergate
MayBee said...
Who does it serve to let black people think white people think their lives don't matter?
12/10/14, 12:51 PM
Well, based on current crime stats, black people don't think black lives matter.
Somehow I am sure that is still my fault...
"The black students at this school deserve to have their specific struggles and pain recognized"
I'm doubting a lot of the pain of Smith College students. The very concept of attending an elitist liberal arts school of that level was way beyond the comprehension of this poor non-black person. I worked my way through six years of non-elitist school. I'm not sympathetic.
The pain of black Smith College students.
LOL.
We are living in bizarre land.
This is a great post that gives the Althousian clan the freedom to fully express and rejoice in their common racism. Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
Let's see, blacks have a lower IQ, so it's their fault. A full stddev lower makes them Untermensch. I am sure 400 years of systematic oppression has nothing to do with it. It's all because they are genetically inferior, e.g. closer to the apes!
Unfortunately, that's just not true. Whites are closer to the apes than Africans. Maybe that is why we can't seem to ever be able to rid ourselves of chickenhawkin fox news minion limbaugh lovin (just for you, Drago) white trash.
Be sure to hit the Althouse Amazon button on your way out. Special Today Only: King-Size Sheets (White Only)
The difficulty is that there are some very intelligent black people, but that is not really "contrary evidence" to Smart Fraction theory. The mean IQ for blacks in the US is about a standard deviation lower than whites, and it is even lower in many African nations. It is far from clear how public policy should address this issue, but the current approach - outraged denial - is unlikely to produce a resolution.
Let's smoke salvia together and then bust out your skull-measuring calipers and get crazy with some serious race science.
Howard: "Unfortunately, that's just not true. Whites are closer to the apes than Africans. Maybe that is why we can't seem to ever be able to rid ourselves of chickenhawkin fox news minion limbaugh lovin (just for you, Drago) white trash."
Always nice to be remembered.
Though I must admit that what your standard gibberish is quite difficult to decipher.
I think what Howard is getting at is that some posters (not me) have posted things that Howard disagrees with therefore Howard has decided that those views belong to me.
Howard probably believes this is "science".
In the same way that Howard actually believes, he actually does, that "Total War" was invented in 1864 in the US.
Black lives matter?
To whom?
Certainly not blacks.
And the President basically APOLOGIZED. For saying all lives matter.
I hope these petulant shit bricks will list what lives don't matter.
...again, we fund higher education for WHAT reason? Is it solely to keep unemployable morons in position to "teach" not-terribly-intelligent students?
Whites are closer to the apes than Africans. Maybe that is why we can't seem to ever be able to rid ourselves of chickenhawkin fox news minion limbaugh lovin (just for you, Drago) white trash.
Don't worry. Althouse keeping bigots like you and Crack around are why I don't use her Amazon portal.
"The black students at this school deserve to have their specific struggles and pain recognized"
The fact that they are in college would be a testament to the fact that they've some of their overcome their specific struggles and would be better recognized for that.
garage: "Let's smoke salvia together and then bust out your skull-measuring calipers and get crazy with some serious race science."
Oooooh, you should read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin_theory
Let's bust out the melanin content analysis and get crazy with some serious race science.
Of course garage, as an Ice person, you will naturally be found wanting, again.
The good news: You're used to it!
Their new hashtag should more accurately read:
#onlyblacklivesmatterscrewwhitey
We don't call them young-skulls-filled-with-mush for nothing...
New slogan: Stop apologizing.
Someone says or does something innocuous, the mob descends for its five minutes hate of the day, the person apologizes. Stop apologizing.
Drago: rHard-on the dog fucking Amateur radio math dweeb is the racist and misogynist I was targeting. I know for a fact that some of your best friends are black.
Idiots. Why has this epidemic of idiocy been ignored ?
"Derbyshire's theory is that blacks are just stupid, and black societies are cesspits because there aren't enough smart blacks to support the rest.
I'd be interested in supplying contrary evidence, if I were black."
You misstate Derb's points. He was telling his Eurasian children how to protect themselves from crime. On IQ, he stated that the distribution is:
There are black geniuses and black morons. There are black saints and black psychopaths. In a population of forty million, you will find almost any human type. Only at the far, far extremes of certain traits are there absences. There are, for example, no black Fields Medal winners. While this is civilizationally consequential, it will not likely ever be important to you personally. Most people live and die without ever meeting (or wishing to meet) a Fields Medal winner.
Actually, there is a history of Nigerian immigrants doing very well in math, especially in the financial industry. They tend to be Ibo tribe or "Igbo" as some call it. That subgroup of Nigerians were the victims of the Biafran war in the 70s.
There are quite a few influential Ibos in the world, many in Ivy League colleges. They benefit especially from US affirmative action intended for American blacks who are not in a position to benefit.
I deal with many black medical students. Few are Americans.
"The most dangerous place for an African-American is in the womb." Pastor Clenard Childress, Jr.
Jupiter said...
"rhhardin said...
"I'd be interested in supplying contrary evidence, if I were black."
"The difficulty is that there are some very intelligent black people, but that is not really "contrary evidence" to Smart Fraction theory. The mean IQ for blacks in the US is about a standard deviation lower than whites, and it is even lower in many African nations. It is far from clear how public policy should address this issue, but the current approach - outraged denial - is unlikely to produce a resolution."
Stuck on stupid. You people must be moby's.
If she keeps making comments like "all lives matter" she might get banned from commenting at Huffington Post. I know that happened to me. Now I know why.
Michael K
excellent points. Perhaps the absence of american africans you have noted might have something to do with the lingering effects of slavery, jim crow, lynching, segregation, etc.
I think this is Cracks main point. Even if most whites no longer feel overtly racist anymore, the weight of history still effects american africans.
Of course, the bleating pinko apologies are not the answer either.
The Black issue is still messed up and we need to keep working at bring it to rights. Recognizing that as whites, we have built in advantages is one step.
However, the white trash won't let their hatred and fear of black men admit there is a disparity.
Diamond Head, you make the central point from which the apology flowed. Your example is excellent. I think most, if not all of us understand that point.
What we, OK, what I, am poking fun at is that the good Prezzy was trying to get down with the struggle and in doing so said ALMOST the exactly right thing. For this she was pilloried to the point of apology. Now, admittedly, the tipping point on some of these folk is decidedly easy to achieve, but still, how important was this correction? The blue on blue attack. The othering for the slightest offense. The cries of "No, no, I'm one of YOUUUUUUUUU! These are amusing and frightening at the same time.
Achilles said...
"Stuck on stupid. You people must be moby's."
I think you may be right, about the "Stuck on stupid". The heavy emphasis most race realists place on IQ may be an over simplification. Low IQs may explain why blacks in the US don't make much money, and why African economies are not very productive. Still, there are a lot of people who are not terribly bright, but still manage to get through their lives without raping, robbing or killing anyone. There are probably other factors required to explain why American blacks have such a high proportion of violent criminals. The appalling disintegration of family structure may play a role, as well as the collection of social pathologies we call "black culture".
Be that as it may, the reason for the hostility between the police and black Americans is that the police are called upon to arrest criminals, and the "black community" may want them arrested in the aggregate, but almost never in the particular. "He's a good boy! He didn't do nothin' wrong!"
It is not clear that there is much of anything government can or should do about this. But pretending that the police are at fault is unlikely to resolve anything. It is customary at this point to say that black people are the ones who are harmed the most when the police cannot enforce the laws. Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn.
Howard said...
However, the white trash won't let their hatred and fear of black men admit there is a disparity.
12/10/14, 3:10 PM
Do you REALLY feel that is the case or is it possibly "why the hell should I feel sorry for him/her just because they are black when I have it just as bad?"
There are some places in America where overt racism exists but it is getting much fewer and much farther between. On the other hand there is still a lot of "racism of low expectations" (I believe) in many more places. It was on full display these last few weeks with all the Ferguson news front and center where apologists were out in full force saying that burning down their own neighborhoods was justified instead of holding everyone to the same standard, regardless of color. Treating everyone equal starts with treating everyone equal. It is not racist to point that out.
rhhardin said...
"Derbyshire's theory is that blacks are just stupid, and black societies are cesspits because there aren't enough smart blacks to support the rest."
Derbyshire is wrong. There is more than IQ to creating a free civil society and it really isn't a requirement. This hypothesis is not just wrong, but really evil and counterproductive.
There are 3 foundations our free societies are based on: Nuclear Family, Protestant based morality system that stresses individual virtue, and small less-intrusive(relatively) government. Freedom to associate, private property, and enforcement of contract are the primary functions of the government inside the borders.
When the United States was founded there was nothing like it in history. Really the only places in the world that have true upward mobility and individual achievement are places recently pacified by the US. South Korea, Japan, Europe. Australia was founded in a very similar manner to the US from the same population, cast-outs/criminals from British feudal society.
Even Greece and Rome, with some semblance of democracy and far advanced compared to other civilizations of their time were extremely oligarchic with huge underclasses that didn't participate politically. It took invasions by the US in WWI and WWII to take Europe out of it's essentially feudal governing structure. Even today France's political structure is essentially nepotistic with over 90% of political leaders going to one school and school admissions tied to family/wealth. Catholic centered morality systems tend towards powerful central control and countries that have this as a cultural cornerstone represent this. They also tend toward extended family based situations.
We need to stop saying retarded shit like focusing on IQ scores and actually understand the underpinnings of a free society. Then we must note how progressives have gone straight after these pillars and combat that. At this point whether Derbyshire is right or wrong people that bring that kind of crap up are moby's or idiots.
Inevitably after a couple of weeks, this has been appropriately reduced to meaningless sloganeering. All that's left is for Sharpton to trademark the phrase.
Achilles said...
"Derbyshire is wrong. There is more than IQ to creating a free civil society and it really isn't a requirement. This hypothesis is not just wrong, but really evil and counterproductive."
"At this point whether Derbyshire is right or wrong people that bring that kind of crap up are moby's or idiots."
First of all, the hypothesis is not Derbyshire's, he merely finds it persuasive. You might take the trouble to read an account of it, by the man who created it, and the evidence adduced; http://tinyurl.com/yo85xv
before calling it "wrong". I don't guess you really need any information to call it evil.
Incidentally, do you have a particular reason for including an apostrophe in the plural of "moby", or do you form all plurals that way? What is a "moby", anyway? Is that like a troll?
Howard: "I know for a fact that some of your best friends are black"
I'd like to know more about your black friends though they are probably much too numerous to mention by name. Do you guys crank up Kool and the Gang every weekend? Or perhaps Tower of Power was more to your liking?
I'm quite sure that garage keeps his "I like blacks" card up to date by watching at least 3 to 4 episodes of Starsky and Hutch and then not averting his eyes when Huggy Bear pops in.
Incidentally, whatever the role of IQ in creating a free civil society, I believe its role in academic success is undisputed. And that is why all the hand-wringing and conciousness-raising about the plight of blacks in education is such happy horseshit. If IQ is critical to educational success, and blacks have low average IQs, then there is no educational intervention that is going to allow them to succeed at the level of whites, let alone Asians.
Since the Progressive establishment refuses to recognize this fact, it prefers instead to blame "racism". Every negative aspect of black culture and behavior is somehow the fault of white racism, although it doesn't seem to keeping the Koreans back. This is wearing thin, and it will wear thinner, as whites, finding ourselves becoming a minority, begin to seek our own racial spoils.
The students all proudly chanted "Black LIves Matter" and then marched off to their rally to support Planned Parenthood...
The good thing about large modern universities is they usually have a pretty horizontal organization structure. This allows one segment to go batshit crazy while others produce good work.
Presidents matter very little (in the short run) at places as large as UW and VT. Yeah, they can shift money between undergraduate, graduate, and research programs. They can also make long term commitments for building projects and new programs that spread the money out. But the law school, math department, etc. can usually muddle along if the faculty are good enough to start with.
Smith is fairly small (2,600 undergrads) so it may not have that type of insulation. And since it is a liberal arts college, public perception plays a bigger part in who applies. But a $1.5 billion endowment will support a lot of batshit crazy. And if you are the type of person who applies to Smith, this controversy may be a feature rather than a bug.
excellent points. Perhaps the absence of american africans you have noted might have something to do with the lingering effects of slavery, jim crow, lynching, segregation, etc.
Because Africa, certainly, has licked that slavery problem cold. And violence in Africa is unheard of anywhere in the entire continent. Really.
And blacks in the Caribbean --- they've had such easy lives of opulence, huh?
The Black issue is still messed up and we need to keep working at bring it to rights. Recognizing that as whites, we have built in advantages is one step.
Can you explain how it ISN'T racist to assume whites have to "fix" black culture?
I'm fascinated. Honestly.
...then explain why it is the job of whites to fix black culture...
"focusing on IQ scores" is important in some ways: IQ matters sometimes, and it is reasonable to expect activities and occupations that benefit from a higher IQ to have a lower representation of blacks.
It is reasonable to expect that overall blacks will have lower income as occupations that benefit from higher IQs generally command higher salaries. It is reasonable to expect a larger fraction of a lower IQ population to participate in government assistance programs, which are really really good at displacing reliance on family structures. Whether IQ is more directly related to criminal behavior or poverty, it is reasonable to assume blacks will have more interaction with the criminal justice system.
It would be wrong to try to jigger the statistics to equalize them because it will inevitably result in creating income disparity in the black community as the more capable of the black population capable of performing well will be in higher demand as compared with other black people as well as other races and therefore command higher salaries (I have some experience with this, required to pay a fresh out of college and very capable black engineer 50% higher salary than an otherwise comparable engineer), putting people with less capabilities into situations for which they are not suited and will perform poorly, and reward criminals with a "get the f out of jail card" for being black and therefore encouraging criminal behavior.
There is real racial discrimination, and it needs to be identified and eradicated -- but not every racial disparity is caused by racial discrimination. Laying off all disparities to 'white privilege' and 'racial discrimination' is unfair, dishonest, and not counterproductive.
“It’s hard to challenge minds while walking on eggshells.”
- Greg Lukianoff, Foundation for Individual Rights in Education
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
damikesc: Don't worry, no one expects anything from your kind: I'm talking about human beings.
Drago: I live on the Bleeding Heart edge of the Left Coast in a Librul ecology paradise, so natch we don't have many brothers around.
It seems to me, being a foreigner and part Asian, etc., that the real conflict about "racism" is not between blacks and whites, but between one very privileged faction of whites and their more common brethren. This is really mostly class conflict where actual blacks and their problems are, in literary terms, a mcguffin. Its all about the bigshots finding a handy stick to beat on the rednecks, just to keep them down. America is tending towards an aristocratic and oligarchic system, and "racism", " sexism", etc. are just arguments to justify the codification of priveleges.
The difficulty is that there are some very intelligent black people, but that is not really "contrary evidence" to Smart Fraction theory. The mean IQ for blacks in the US is about a standard deviation lower than whites, and it is even lower in many African nations. It is far from clear how public policy should address this issue, but the current approach - outraged denial - is unlikely to produce a resolution.
My argument with Derbyshire, when I comment over at Taki, is that IQ is not as important as he thinks it is.
There are some nice theories by Acemoglu et al on why nations fail, and they put it down to institutions and culture; and Weingast on the various stable economic systems, most of which are plunder systems of various degrees.
It's easy to be stuck in one of those without being fatally stupid. They're stable, like organized crime.
So Derbyshire would have to deal with those, more probable, theories before deciding that his beloved IQ test matters.
As to average IQs, I'm unimpressed with any difference. Group divergence will always result in differences in everything.
The kind of stupidity blacks are exhibiting is social, not intellectual.
They're helped along by the media. You blacks are so cool and so justified.
You'd think only women would fall for that.
Michael K wrote -
"Actually, there is a history of Nigerian immigrants doing very well in math, especially in the financial industry."
I appreciate your intent, but I've got to believe that everyone who has ever received an e-mail from a Nigerian prince with banking problems did a spit take reading that.
Howard: "Drago: I live on the Bleeding Heart edge of the Left Coast in a Librul ecology paradise, so natch we don't have many brothers around."
Ok, now that's funny.
I used to live there as well, though not in a Librul ecology paradise.
It was more of a Librul "thunderdome" paradise.
It says a lot about the mindset of leftists that their main problem with our police state is the color of the people the police spend most of their time picking on.
Presumably if cigarette resellers were murdered by police in a racially balanced manner, there wouldn't be anything for the Left to complain about.
Its interesting that the enemy people in Ferguson, etc. are the lower middle class who bought or rent cheap houses in an outer suburb of St. Louis, and are living essentially hand-mouth, not especially better off materially than their black neighbors, who mainly live rent-free in apartment units developed for the section 8 market (lots of that everywhere). The police that people complain so much about are themselves mainly from this white lower middle class - its a tough job, and does not pay well in small towns like this, the benefits are mainly in job security.
The fact that the real fight is between people who will be running Wall street or raking it in from the gross rents in the political - bureaucratic aristocracy, and the retired plumbers in two bedroom shacks in unfashionable suburbs, makes the moralistic posturing surreal.
Shoot looters, whatever color.
Left out of all this angst is this: People have the right to be racist just like they have the right to discriminate against left-handers, redheads, capitalists, polar bears or any other damn thing. GOVERNMENTS are not allowed to discriminate.
Revenant: "Presumably if cigarette resellers were murdered by police in a racially balanced manner, there wouldn't be anything for the Left to complain about."
Well, agreed, since it is empirically true that individuals who are not of the appropriate melanin content that are killed by police goes unremarked upon. Further, individuals of the appropriate melanin content who are killed by other individuals of the appropriate melanin content also goes unremarked upon.
Thus, it is inescapable that Revenant's observation is quite true.
Jack Wayne: "Left out of all this angst is this: People have the right to be racist just like they have the right to discriminate against left-handers, redheads, capitalists, polar bears or any other damn thing. GOVERNMENTS are not allowed to discriminate."
I'm afraid the left has turned your truism into something 180 degrees out of whack.
Diamondhead: "you can establish cases where stating a general truth is not the appropriate response to a specific assertion."
Yes, and in fact, here's one that conservatives have had a problem with:
Most times when Islamic activists like CAIR have been asked to denounce the barbaric actions of HAMAS and allied groups, they reply breezily:
"We oppose all forms of terrorism."
When what is both wanted and needed is for Muslims to denounce the terrorism coming from their fellow Muslims. Instead, we get statements about terrorism that are so generic as to be valueless.
rhhardin: "Derbyshire's theory is that blacks are just stupid, and black societies are cesspits because there aren't enough smart blacks to support the rest.
I'd be interested in supplying contrary evidence, if I were black."
Why?
Black people have nothing to prove to Derbyshire. Or to you.
"Perhaps the absence of american africans you have noted might have something to do with the lingering effects of slavery, jim crow, lynching, segregation, etc. "
This is pretty silly. You don't think that African blacks don't have troubles ? How about AIDS and violent Muslims and tribal wars and starving in Zimbabwe ?
The students from the West Indies are descended from slaves. My student from Eritrea was smuggled out of the country by her parents to South Africa, then to Paris, then to French speaking Guadalupe and finally to Los Angeles where she was living with her grandmother.
Her car broke down and to fix it she had to dispense with the lap top that all medical students use instead of a microscope. I loaned her my own diagnostic instruments and tried to promote her a laptop from the computer company my daughter-in-law was working for.
That year, I had three black students in my small group. She was one. Another had played waiter polo at UC San Diego. How many blacks play water polo? The third was another American and he flunked out.
The "lingering effects of slavery, jim crow, lynching, segregation, etc. " are in their heads. The worst of them come from leftists who think blacks can't make it without them.
Jack Wayne: "People have the right to be racist just like they have the right to discriminate against left-handers, redheads, capitalists, polar bears or any other damn thing."
Not in America.
The 1964 Civil Rights Act outlawed private discrimination on the basis of race.
If a white business owner refuses to serve a black customer on racial grounds, he's in violation of the law.
People have the right to be racist just like they have the right to discriminate against left-handers, redheads, capitalists, polar bears or any other damn thing. GOVERNMENTS are not allowed to discriminate.
If you mean that we have a natural right to discriminate in that manner you are correct. But we haven't had a *legal* right to do it for nearly fifty years.
Perhaps the absence of american africans you have noted might have something to do with the lingering effects of slavery, jim crow, lynching, segregation, etc. I think this is Cracks main point. Even if most whites no longer feel overtly racist anymore, the weight of history still effects american africans.
The problem is that his argument is circular. He claims that black Americans have problems because of "the weight of history", but the only evidence that "the weight of history" is harming black Americans is that they have problems.
Left unexplained is why black Americans, out of all the races and ethnicities in America, have been uniquely affected by their history, despite that history not being uniquely awful. After all, until recently most of the *world* lived in abject poverty with no political, economic, or legal rights to speak of. As bad as black Americans had it under Jim Crow, most of Russia, India, China, and Africa had it much worse. Why aren't *they* weighed down by the hundreds of years of constant grinding oppression with no opportunities for education or advancement? Why is it that, for example, Chinese-Americans came through multiple waves of genocide preceded by thousands of years of illiteracy and serfdom... but aren't crippled by "the legacy" of that? For that matter, why are black immigrants from nations with their *own* histories of oppression and slavery, such as Argentina or the Dominican Republic, more successful than American blacks despite having even worse historical baggage?
Derbyshire's got his theory. My theory? Those other people aren't taught from birth that the United States won't allow them to succeed. Black Americans are. If you tell people they cannot succeed, they tend to believe you.
buwaya puti @ 4:40,
I would not argue with your insight. You hit the nail on the head. As much as the USA tried and in many ways succeeded to form a new classless society. There must be something in human nature that when writ societywide works to consistently undermine the attempt.
"I'd be interested in supplying contrary evidence, if I were black."
Why?
Black people have nothing to prove to Derbyshire. Or to you.
I owe blacks good advice, however.
It you'd like more, what blacks have to do, as a race, is take up a collection to aid poor whites.
They'd be surprised how much dignity they'd wind up with, dignity that they are withholding from themselves.
Whites aren't withholding it from them. They are.
You get dignity by helping somebody else. You get dignity as a race by helping another race.
This is not complicated, just not mentioned.
Too many people like blacks bewildered, sort of pets for the left.
sinz52 said...
Jack Wayne: "People have the right to be racist just like they have the right to discriminate against left-handers, redheads, capitalists, polar bears or any other damn thing."
Not in America.
The 1964 Civil Rights Act outlawed private discrimination on the basis of race.
If a white business owner refuses to serve a black customer on racial grounds, he's in violation of the law.
This entire post is so lacking, it boggles the mind.
First of all, "racism" is a belief.
Thought crime much?
Secondly, you marry racism and discrimination as if they cannot be separated.
Everyone discriminates every single day, all day long.
Thirdly, as far as the Civil Rights Act.....read it again.
.
Re: rhhardin:
My argument with Derbyshire, when I comment over at Taki, is that IQ is not as important as he thinks it is.
There are some nice theories by Acemoglu et al on why nations fail, and they put it down to institutions and culture; and Weingast on the various stable economic systems, most of which are plunder systems of various degrees.
I think it's obvious that institutions matter a lot. North Korea (socialist) and South Korea (fascist, more recently democratic) are the obvious example of two populations basically genetically identical whose standard of living has diverged dramatically thanks to their differing institutions. Though South Korea is obviously helped by the fact that it got Jeolla Province which is indisputably the Best. Meanwhile, North Korea got Hamgyeong Province whose denizens weren't even allowed to sit for the civil service exams for most of the Chosun dynasty (ha ha).
That institutions can hobble a high IQ population doesn't really tell us anything about the "smart fraction" hypothesis though, since I don't think Derbyshire (at least) denies that institutions play a role -- as I've heard it, the point is that there need to be enough "smart" people to keep the institutions running. Both good institutions and a "smart fraction" could be necessary yet insufficient conditions for building a decent country.
All that said, though, my impression is that in most countries that have developed more or less successfully, development preceded conventional "good" institutions (e.g. in South Korea, which has a higher corruption score than Botswana even today, and which was vastly more corrupt during the 70's and 80's, when its long economic expansion really kicked off). As far as I can tell, the institutional requirement for development seems to be that the government allow for private sector wealth and get the hell out of the way, whether as a matter of laissez-faire policy or (more commonly) because the regulators are all being bribed to look the other way. Oh, and stop it with the huge massacres, just do little ones. Or maybe just have dissidents disappeared from time to time.
That's a pretty low institutional bar and doesn't actually require smart people to run it. Totally venal stupid people could manage that much too.
Whether you're black or white, your life matters to very few people.
Black Lives Matter
Number of unarmed blacks killed by police 1999-2014
76
Number of unarmed blacks killed by abortion every day
1876
But just turn your head away and pretend you don't see.
sinz52 said...
"Black people have nothing to prove to Derbyshire. Or to you."
Yeah, that's fine. I'm not really holding my breath anyway. But why does it seem like everyone thinks white people have something to prove to blacks?
Number of unarmed blacks killed by police 1999-2014
76
I'm curious where you got that number from, considering that there are no accurate statistics on police shootings in America.
Black Lives Matter
Missouri Abortion Statistics Breakdown
Total abortions for 2012: 9027
Of Caucasian women: 4836 or 48.36% of all abortions
Of Black women: 3266 or 32.66% of all abortions
Population Statistics for the State of Missouri [2013] from the United States Census Bureau state there are a total 6,044,171 residents, 83.7% Caucasian, 11.7% Black.
Summary
Black Missourians make up 11.7% of residents and 32.66% of all reported Missouri abortions
from http://keeplifelegal.com/2014/11/25/death-is-sold-here-breakdown-of-actual-black-deaths-in-missouri-before-after-michael-brown/
Well, do black lives matter? Smith College, I'm talking to you.
Smith,
Yo Smith ...
No I guess black lives don't matter to Smith women and their kind - black and white together on killing black babies. That's OK.
Add Bruce Dueno de Mesquita on the theory of power in dictatorships.
I'm not sure it applies to US Blacks because their leaders are chosed to satisfy the needs of the media and the left, rather than by economic plunder directly.
Interesting observation, Balfegor.
Why is it that, for example, Chinese-Americans came through multiple waves of genocide preceded by thousands of years of illiteracy and serfdom... but aren't crippled by "the legacy" of that?
Can you imagine if white teabaggers were enslaved for hundreds of years in this country? We'd never hear the end of it. They think they're enslaved because they can't buy an old light bulb.
Can you imagine if white teabaggers were enslaved for hundreds of years in this country? We'd never hear the end of it. They think they're enslaved because they can't buy an old light bulb.
Eh, as trolling attempts go I give that one a 3 out of 10.
rh hardin and others on IQ
The studies on IQ come from one single source - members of the American or Englsih Eugenics Societies. Spearman, Burt, Jensen, Bouchard, Eysenck, Lynn, Brand, JP Rushton - all eugenic society members and most funded by the Pioneer Fund. So the statistics have one source and that's very significant because it undercuts the argument that "all studies show that IQ has a significant heritable component which explains the IQ deficit." These aren't studies from many sources; they are studies from one basic source.
Second, Cyril Burt was shown to be a fraud and his fraudulent research was the basis for all work up till 1976 when the fraud was detected. This includes the work of Arthur Jensen. So the work from 1945 to 1976 is not valid.
Third HJ Eysenck, an IQ researcher also proved the truth of astrology using, as he said, the same statistical methods as he used in his IQ research. Yep.
Fourth, the statistical methods used in social science research trace back to RS Fisher. He is a great man in the statistical world but you may not know that his methods showed that tobacco is not an important cause of lung cancer. He was chief scientific adviser to the Tobacco Institute and his reputation kept Big Tobacco going for many years. This has never really been studied - how was he so wrong?
So I don't think anyone has to accept the alleged IQ-Genetic deficit link. Not till these questions are answered, anyhow. And there is a lot more I could say about post-Millenial studies on embodied society as a possible cause of school failure.
Revenant
the number "76" is a new list just out today from the NAACP. People are crowd sourcing a whole bunch of lists on the topic including whites killed, police killed, etc.
So I've added my list of unarmed blacks killed by abortion
The studies on IQ come from one single source
Unless this statement was somehow written a century ago and only posted today, it is false.
the number "76" is a new list just out today from the NAACP.
URL, please?
Revanent
http://gawker.com/unarmed-people-of-color-killed-by-police-1999-2014-1666672349
Revenant
I said IQ studies are from one one single source and Revanant said: "Unless this statement was somehow written a century ago and only posted today, it is false"
The single source is eugenics. This is true. I listed the main figures Spearman, Burt, Eysenck, Jensen, Bouchard, Lynn, Brand - the sources used by Charles Murray, for example. I said they are (or were when alive) members of the English or American Eugenics societies and they are (or were). And I made other points which I think you ought to answer and not just shout "Wrong" as if you were a snarky mindless liberal. You're better than that.
The worst thing to be is an Asian, Jewish female. No shot at a college or a job.
"Liberals have no idea how deeply they drink from the well of bigotry."
— as T.I.V. said.
wildswan,
The NAACP is saying "these 76 black people were killed by police while unarmed during the last 15 years".
They are not claiming those are the only such people killed during the years in question. Your claim that only 76 unarmed black people were killed by police in the last 15 years is not supported by your link.
The single source is eugenics. This is true.
Not unless you're writing this a century ago. There have been countless IQ studies since then by a wide range of different groups and individuals.
Also, while the eugenics movement was wrong about many things, it was entirely correct in believing that intelligence is heritable. :)
She was simply misheard when ordering a pizza.
Olives Matter.
I am Laslo.
Revanant
I read two stories about that list. Here is the link to the story I read first where the headline was:
"A List Of Every Unarmed Black Person In The U.S. Killed By Police From 1999-2014"
http://www.vibe.com/naacp-legal-defense-fund-unarmed-blacks-killed-by-police
And my point was that
1876
unarmed Blacks in the US are killed every day by abortion whereas that NAACP list was
76
unarmed blacks killed in fifteen years
"They think they're enslaved because they can't buy an old light bulb."
No, I stocked up, asshole.
You might try saving sometime.
Well the fact that blacks commit 200x times the interracial aggravated assault that whites do and yet the media talks exclusively about cops killing black babies kind of speaks to the fact that only black lives matter.
Revenant to garage: "Eh, as trolling attempts go I give that one a 3 out of 10."
True, but on the "garage scale" (with the handicap already factored in) it's a solid 8!
I have no opunion one way or the other, but I do find it interesting that Revenant starts asking for links in garage-like fashion as soon as someone suggests something that fails to support his/her the cops are jerks opinion.
on the other hand, if he/she is honestly collecting sources of data, my apologies.
Opunion? Really, CWJ? Sorry,
The black students at this school deserve to have their specific struggles and pain recognized, not dissolved into the larger student body."
I detect fat shaming in that sentence. Time for another apology.
Then please settle down for a long winter's nap.
And my point was that 1876
unarmed Blacks in the US are killed every day by abortion
Yes, I think everybody understood what you were trying to say.
"There have been countless IQ studies since then by a wide range of different groups and individuals."
The best known IQ studies are those by the people I mentioned - Spearman, Burt, Jensen, Eysenck, Bouchard, Lynn, Chris Brand, JP Rushton. And these were eugenics society members and all but Spearman were supported by the Pioneer Fund. Even Charles Murray positioned his discussion of IQ as being in the "Galtonian tradition." The Galtonian tradition was the tradition upheld by eugenic Society members in England and America - the people Murray used were the people mentioned above who were all eugenic society members.
And it has not been proven that what IQ tests measure is a genetic inheritance. You aren't citing any authorities whereas I'm saying that the major authorities were discredited by the Burt fraud. And why did Burt resort to fraud if the link is between genetics and IQ is evident? The genetics-IQ link is like climate change science - it's false statistics serving an agenda.
I think black criminality stems from structural issues such as poverty, population density, and insufficient access to quality education. I think it is like white criminality in that way? Am I naive? I am skeptical of claims that black Americans can be statistically shown to be more criminal than they "should" be. I have a genius iq but my father and mother are probably exactly average.
wildswan said...
The single source is eugenics. This is true.
No, that's not true in the least. Beside the fact that "eugenics" isn't a source of anything, recognition of group/racial differences in IQ is standard academic psychology.
Report of a Task Force established by the Board of Scientific Affairs of the American Psychological Association
Members of the Task Force:
Ulric Neisser, PhD, Chair; Emory University
Gwyneth Boodoo, PhD, Educational Testing Service
Thomas J. Bouchard, Jr., PhD, University of Minnesota
A. Wade Boykin, PhD, Howard University
Nathan Brody, PhD, Wesleyan University
Stephen J. Ceci, PhD, Cornell University
Diane F. Halpern, PhD, California State University, San Bernadino
John C. Loehlin, PhD, University of Texas, Austin
Robert Perloff, PhD, University of Pittsburgh
Robert J. Sternberg, PhD, Yale University
Susana Urbina, PhD, University of North Florida
"African Americans.
The relatively low mean of the distribution of African-American intelligence test scores has been discussed for many years. Although studies using different tests and samples yield a range of results, the Black mean is typically about one standard deviation (about 15 points) below that of Whites"
I promise only the second question mark on my last was intended.
I have no opunion one way or the other, but I do find it interesting that Revenant starts asking for links in garage-like fashion as soon as someone suggests something that fails to support his/her the cops are jerks opinion.
I find it interesting that you see a claim that police have killed 76 unarmed black people in 15 years and immediately think "this shows that police aren't jerks". :)
I asked not because I think the statistic should be higher, but because -- like I noted -- there are no good statistics on police killings.
The best known IQ studies are those by the people I mentioned
Ah, so now we've quietly moved from the objectively false claim that IQ studies have a single source to a new claim, that the "best known" studies (whatever that means) have a single source.
Still nonsense, of course, but edging progressively closer to reality.
And it has not been proven that what IQ tests measure is a genetic inheritance.
It has been proven that what IQ tests measure is largely, if not entirely, genetic.
You aren't citing any authorities
Neither are you. You're just naming scientists and claiming they are both eugenicists and the "best known" IQ researchers.
whereas I'm saying that the major authorities were discredited by the Burt fraud
That's a very silly thing to say, given that Burt's fraud was discovered forty years ago and most of the relevant work on hereditary intelligence has been done in the last quarter-century.
So I am reading the internet, drinking a cup of Fair Trade tea with a touch of almond milk, when I see a story about "black lives matter". Needless to say, I was confused: of course black lives matter, I read the New York Times. My 'Emotional Support Negro' was watching college basketball so I waited until commercial break, then asked him a question.
"Black people: they know their lives matter, right?"
"My black life does, Little Bitch."
I get uncomfortable when he calls me that, but I decided to stick with the conversation at hand, I do not want to digress and undermine trust discussing how terms of affection can differ in different cultures, and some may not even see the pain they can cause others. I have a friend who is Canadian, and I am sure I must have inadvertently upset him somewhere along the line without even knowing it -- Canadians are touchy that way.
"I mean, 'all' black people."
"So now I'm supposed to talk for 'all' black people? We all look the same to you, is that it, Little Pussy?"
"That's not what I meant..."
"Are you talking about the couple of nice American Blacks you see at work, or are you talking about the American Blacks on the street in the wife-beater shirts that you are afraid will jack your car and slap down your lily-white ass?"
"I guess I just kinda meant in general."
"Cause the nice American Blacks at the Office, they'd beat down your lily-white ass, too, you just don't realize it."
"Maybe I'm asking the question wrong..."
"This is about the coming Race War, isn't it?"
"Whoa -- that is NOT what I am talking about..."
"Cause whenever you whites get all concerned about us blacks it's because you're afraid the Race War is coming, all big-ass negroes kickin' down your door and shit."
"I don't think it's because we're afraid of any 'Race War'..."
"Oh, do NOT give me that air-quote shit, I'll beat your pale ass down myself."
"sorry."
"There is gonna be some monster-ass black men armed and drivin' Impalas down every white neighborhood in America, and we're gonna drag each and everyone of you white boys out in your driveway and beat you in front of your bitches..."
"This is escalating past what I am comfortable talking about..."
"We're gonna turn all your fat-ass wives out as hos on the street and your little girls'll all be dressing in TuPac T-Shirts."
"Look! The basketball game is back on!"
"And you: I got plans for you."
"Oh God..."
"But for now, how about let's just watch the game and pretend this whole little discussion never even happened."
"I'd appreciate that."
"You gonna grab a beer?"
"Yeah: I think I need one. Even though using alcohol as a coping mechanism can cause poor life choices, it can occasionally be acceptable for social discomfort, in moderation. I think I read that somewhere..."
"I hear that. And..."
"Yeah?"
Get another Forty for me, will you, Little Bitch?"
I am Laslo.
Sorry Revenant, you give the game away. I neither said nor thought any such thing one way or the other. Nor did I write what you put in quotes.
That's twice now in as many days that I've been misquoted. As I said to harrogate yesterday, up your game.
Fernandinade mentioned a Report commissioned by the APA. In the first paragraph that Report said"
"Concepts of "intelligence" are attempts to clarify and organize [a] complex set of phenomena. Although considerable clarity has been achieved in some areas, no such conceptualization has yet answered all the important questions and none commands universal assent. Indeed, when two dozen prominent theorists were recently asked to define intelligence, they gave two dozen somewhat different definitions (Sternberg & Detterman, 1986)."
And at the end summing up the Report said:
"Several culturally based explanations of the Black/ White IQ differential have been proposed; some are plausible, but so far none has been conclusively supported. There is even less empirical support for a genetic interpretation. In short, no adequate explanation of the differential between the IQ means of Blacks and Whites is presently available."
So that Committee doesn't support your contention that the IQ-Genetic link has been established.
In the post World War II era the English and the American eugenics societies pushed the IQ-genetics link - their members were prominent in all disputes on the subject. The APA committee includes John Loehlin and TJ Bouchard, both members of the American eugenics society.
Edelman did the same emails to groupon, threatening to call the Liquor Licensing Board.
Revanant said challenged me for saying that :The best known IQ studies are those by the people I mentioned." I take this from Charles Murray who in the Bell Curve begind with a little mini-history of the IQ-Genetics debate. He mentions a classical, a revisionist and a radical tradition and he states (p. 19) that he [Murray] is following the "classical tradition" which began with Spearman. Arthur Jensen is "the archtypal clssicist" (p. 15). The classical tradition is marked by adherence to the concept of the "G factor" in intelligence. The G factor makes us smart or stupid and is largely inherited. And all the people I mentioned are those whom Charles Murray goes on to discuss and defend in his book published in 1994. Their work is the basis of the classical tradition, defended by Murray and by you. So I'm not pulling names out of the air.
The APA Report was a response to the Bell Curve and (as you see in my comment above) that Report said the cause of black-white differences on IQ tests was NOT established. That was in the late 1990's, not forty years ago. Since the Bell Curve controversy not much new has been done. The Human Genome Project made the concept of the G factor very questionable. And the whole field is inert but however Steve Sailor reiterates the old arguments. And against those old arguments, I bring up the argument that the IQ studies are coming from a closely knit group of researchers, not a disparate group, and a group whose members also hold the questionable doctrine of eugenics. I'm trying to make people see where the argument is coming from and where it is going.
There's a list of eugenics society members online built up over the last twenty years.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/97130973/American-eugenics-society-1945-2012
http://www.scribd.com/doc/97123506/Eugenics-Society-Members-A-Z-2012
Saying all lives matter is saying black lives matter. That great college education again.
What these poor students are feeling is anger at the idea that black lives can't be promoted as mattering more than non-black lives. The exact same thing that racist whites did for centuries.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
The Civil War and then the Civil Rights Act clarified that black people are created equal.
The "all men" in the Declaration is not including all men. The emphasis on a particular subset is meant to highlight the incompleteness of the original that was exclusive even as it suggested universality.
So too, it make sense to emphasize a subset as a critique and correction of historic meanings.
The POTUS of me says my attendance of Steel Panther December 21 is all but certain.
Think, you fools!, of what "all but certain" means. Do not be stupid and conform via your differencenessies dumpkoph.
With all due respect, everybody seems to be missing the point here. This isn't a story about race. It's a story about why women shouldn't be college presidents. I know some of you will say, Smith is a women's college, of course it should have a woman president. But for its first hundred years, through 1975(!), Smith had male presidents (except for one lamentable two-year period on the eve of World War II when a woman served as acting president). Those were years that gave us notable Smith alumnae like Julia Child, Betty Friedan, Nancy Reagan, Gloria Steinem, Sylvia Plath and Julie Nixon Eisenhower. It's not too late for Smith to reclaim its greatness and select a male as president. My suggestion: Jonathan Gruber.
Louis, at 9:04-
Add fatherless homes. Government dependence has destroyed the family structure. Especially the black family, which was mostly intact up until the Great Society.
Black economists, Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams have wrote extensively on the subject.
This is worse than apologizing for using the word niggardly. At least the man who used that word wasn't responsible for educating people.
It's amazing how the Emperor is dressing so skimpily in these protests. It's not at all obvious that there is any disparity in police killings, or that the disparity doesn't run in the opposite direction implied by the orthodox hashtag: the best estimate I can come up with is that about 30% of 1000 annual police killings are black, more than the general black population, and less than the number of murders by the same population.
What's the right number to use? Who knows? You have to look at the individual cases to see if a bias can be detected. No one, at least in the press, has done that.
McCartney's original email is curious, by the way, in how she presupposes the existence of excessive force in the Michael Brown case. Members of the Smith College community would do the same thing as officer Wilson, but can glide above expressing a kind of other-worldly judgment, knowing they will never be in his position.
Don't worry, no one expects anything from your kind: I'm talking about human beings.
Not sure where you're in position to discuss a group you aren't a part of.
Again, enlighten us why, say, Jews --- who've been oppressed and attacked for millenia in many, many places --- are able to exceed while blacks seemingly cannot.
Then explain why it is the job of whites to "fix" black culture. Or how we can do so in the first place.
Thanks, sub-human.
The black experience in this case is don't be an extremely overweight male with asthma and most medical problems associated with being overweight, a rap sheet as long as my arm, out of prison and on probation who refuses to follow orders from a law enforcement officer who is on the scene because of complaints from black business owners in the neighborhood, black superior officers on scene supervising the take down which did not involve choke holds but institutional takedown procedures taught at the academy and the perp dying in the ambulance the way to hospital because of prior breathing/heart problems from his physical condition. No apologies necessary especially from the Smith administrators.
Gollee whillikers. Say "All lives matter" to State Senator Obama whilst he was advocating partial birth abortions--aka infanticide. Those lives didn't matter.
wildswan, am I misreading, or have you capitulated on the fact that black people as a race have lower IQ than white?
Is that 'racist'? Does that have any bearing on 'black lives matter'? And of course, 'At this point, what difference does it make'?
Ahhh, Smith College. The best thing about the place is its statue of Calvin Coolidge, which you can almost hear saying, "The business of America IS business, you ignorant little sluts."
Revanant said challenged me for saying that :The best known IQ studies are those by the people I mentioned." I take this from Charles Murray who in the Bell Curve begind with a little mini-history of the IQ-Genetics debate.
No, that isn't what Rev was challenging you on. Regurgitating Murray's "mini-history" in response is just so much squid ink.
...a group whose members also hold the questionable doctrine of eugenics.
Psst...wildswan...the genetic fallacy doesn't actually have anything to do with genetics. Yeah, I know, that "genetic" seems to confuse a lot of people.
I'm trying to make people see where the argument is coming from and where it is going.
That's mighty white of you. Why, if it weren't for truth-dealers like you, tearing the lid off intelligence researchers rolling in their endless jillions of Pioneer Fund research bucks, while honest White Privilege Interrogators and Disparate Impact Inquisitors have to go begging for federal dollars and Ford Foundation grants, we might, in our ignorance, never notice these people were peddling Tainted Ideas. If only we lived in a world where stout high walls of protective disclaimers, caveats, disinfectant mealy-mouthedness, and the occasional purifying public struggle session protected the curious innocent from corruption, should he peer into the subject. If only the casual consumer of MSM reportage ever encountered IQ debunkers!
Comments: TL,DR. Exhibition of insanity, one (1) each.
Idiocracy unfolding before our eyes, though not in the way Mike Judge envisioned.
Well, it sounds like we are finally having that national conversation about race. Where's Eric?
Jupiter said, "What is a "moby", anyway? Is that like a troll?"
The Urban Dictionary says - An insidious and specialized type of left-wing troll who visits blogs and impersonates a conservative for the purpose of either spreading false rumors intended to sow dissension among conservative voters, or who purposely posts inflammatory and offensive comments for the purpose of discrediting the blog in question.
This is what you get when all the college presidents are women and liberals.
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