President Bush "knew everything he needed to know, and wanted to know... He knew the techniques... there was no effort on my part to keep it from him. He was fully informed."
Said Dick Cheney.
He also called the report "full of crap."
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I will always admire Bush for selecting a competent Vice President who didn't view the job as a stepping stone to the Presidency.
The Report has done what it's supposed to have done: deflected the microscope from Obama and his problems back to Bush.
I think Diane Feinstein and the Democratic SSIC can arguably be charged with doing to potential real intelligence gathering reform what Barack Obama and the Democratic Congress have so far done to potential real health care reform: convert a real problem issue into a short-term, terminal partisan wad-shoot.
Sen. Kerrey may have said it more elegantly.
Otherwise, those that have the facts don't matter, since the truth doesn't either. It's the new way for journalism: Invent what's needed to promote the narrative.
Where is Hillary Clinton urging her former Senate colleagues to STFU?
Secretary Kerry has been vocal on this front.
Yawn...we all knew about these tortures. In the meantime, let the drone killings continue....I mean why not, nobody calls that torture right?
Before you speak, you must consider your pulpit.
Cheney went on FNC with a Darth Vader reputation.
He can't sway anyone that way.
Thanks, Dick.
I saw the interview. To Bret Baier's credit, he asked tough questions and followed those questions up with more tough questions. To V.P. Cheney's credit, he fielded all the questions without complaint. (He did seem uncomfortable at times.) It is an example of how news interviews should be conducted.
Oh, Cheney doesn't like the report?
Well I guess it's been debunked then!
Being mean to Al Qaeda guys was Bush's fault, and him a compassionate conservative.
The next thing we will find out is that Bush really was pro Israel and pro Egypt.
Bush had that Texas Ranger mentality that was once very mean to noble Comanches as soon as Rangers got their order for two Walker Colt six shooters apiece and could for the firts time shoot back as fast as the Commanches could shoot their arrows.
Texans are mean I tell you. Especially Texas Christians
The Democrats have shown repeatedly that they cannot be trusted with important government functions, such as national security matters, as they will tell outrageous lies just to score political points and protect themselves from being held to account.
"Thanks, Dick"
Yes, thank you Mr. Vice President.
I enjoy the substantive comments from "garage mahal" and harrogate. Withering criticism from those two intellectual giants really put Cheney in his place.
Harrogate, do you really believe that all those poor dem senators were not informed and/or did not approve of these techniques?
If so then I guess if you like your narrative you can keep your narrative.
@DKWalser - I was also impressed with the interview. Something you don't see much anymore.
"I will always admire Bush for selecting a competent Vice President who didn't view the job as a stepping stone to the Presidency."
It's weird that the job is viewed that way, since it has hardly ever happened. Only 4 VPs have entered the presidency through running for President and getting elected President, and George H.W. Bush is the only one since 1836.
I enjoy the substantive comments from "garage mahal" and harrogate.
Thank you, and Molotov.
"Cheney went on FNC with a Darth Vader reputation.
He can't sway anyone that way."
He doesn't care. He knows the left is crazy, as we see here from time to time. He knows that they kept us safe although I think Bush got too wrapped upon the democracy thing in Iraq, and especially Afghanistan. Those people are Muslims, meaning they are not ready for modern life until Islam has a Reformation.
Alexander the Great would recognize Afghanistan except for the AK 47s.
Is anyone surprised about anything in that report? We were mean? It is all stuff that most people assumed was happening, even others in Europe and in Asia. My only surprise is that even "meaner" events weren't occurring or surfacing in this report.
Even though some foreign governments are condemning actions outlined in this report, they have to be laughing about the "outrage" that it has produced.
Many are still trying to apply western philosophy into subjects where it ne not be applied.
"Harrogate, do you really believe that all those poor dem senators were not informed and/or did not approve of these techniques?"
Drago, you've asked me this before, and I have answered it. I do believe that most of the Dem Senators knew, and either approved, or were too chickenshit to try tgo do anything about it, or some combination of both.
Hell, we (regular citizens not privy to WH briefings) knew they were using torture. How could it possibly be that the Dem Senators didn't know?
Michael K, the left was always crazy, and always will be.
The question is: what is their motivation?
Garage: "Thank you, and Molotov"
It's better if you say it in Austrian. You could get a "corpse-man" to assist you if need be.
BTW Nixon was V.P. under Eisenhower.
Harrogate, I thought you had but I wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying.
Special Report with Bret Baer is the one Fox News show I try to watch.
He consistently does a good job, and the panel discussion is always interesting, although always lopsided to the right.
Interestingly Special Report with Bret Baer is beating the network (not cable, networks) in multiple key markets during the 6pm hour.
Impressive.
WH Chief of Staff to Joe Biden: "Goddammit, Mr. Vice President, stop leaving your banana peels on the frigging stairs!"
Old and Busted: Enhanced Interrogation
New and Hot: Diversity and Sensitivity Training
[WATCH] This Black Woman’s BOLD Statement Will Enrage Ferguson Protesters
http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2014/12/watch-this-black-womans-bold-statement.html
"Interestingly Special Report with Bret Baer is beating the network (not cable, networks) in multiple key markets during the 6pm hour."
It's the straight news program I watch. I gave up on network news years ago.
"I will always admire Bush for selecting a competent Vice President who didn't view the job as a stepping stone to the Presidency."
Ha! Cheney picked himself to be vice-President. Probably to insure the "Bush" presidency would be run the way the bosses wanted it run. Why would he want a "stepping stone" to the presidency when he was the defacto president?
There's no question Cheney was competent...but is it a plus to have someone who is competent who is also evil?
Sen. Kerrey may have said it more elegantly.
@Clayton, particularly when Kerrey wrote "There was no operating manual to guide the choices and decisions made by the men and women in charge of protecting us. I will continue to read the report to learn of the mistakes we apparently made. I do not need to read the report in full to know this: We have not been attacked since and for that I am very grateful."
It's a reminder that once upon a time Democrat politicians understood that they had a responsibility to the public and to the nation as a whole.
Why would he want a "stepping stone" to the presidency when he was the defacto president?
That's been an extreme left-wing meme for some time now, and the ignorant keep resurrecting it no matter how many times it's been debunked. We were very fortunate to have George W. Bush and not the loathsome Al Gore as President on September 11, 2001.
Good for VP Cheney: He has nothing to hide, and neither does his boss. I think this report is going to backfire badly on its authors and sponsors. Feinstein let slip that they had to issue the report before the GOP got control, i.e. it is a late partisan hit job, and a way to deflect attention from the current disasters in foreign policy. The CIA must be furious and somehow I think they will find ways to get even. As for the quality of the report: apparently the investigators never got around to interviewing key witnesses who knew/used these interrogation methods?
As for the shocking revelations themselves? Compared to ISIL's beheading YouTubes? Meh.
@Big Mike:
It is simply confirmation that Bob Kerrey is another amoral apologist for torture.
By the way, the military has done nothing to "protect us" since WWII. There is no war we have started or joined since then that has been necessary to our defense, or that has furthered that aim.
The report would be more meaningful if it represented something unique or partisan. I wonder if there will be repercussions for assassinating foreign leaders and undeclared regime changes. I think Benghazi, ISIS, and Ukraine were only segues to a new order. Not to mention normalization of premeditated murder to relieve "burdens" and increase taxable activity.
Drago, did you notice that Baier was beating network news in Black markets? Not sure about the rest, but Baltimore is, as Det. Pendleton noted in "Homicide," a brown town. Aren't Jacksonville and St. Louis also? What does that mean, I wonder.
Bush never watched a video on the job. Obama watched a video and the violations of domestic and international order have been progressive. I wonder who he will sacrifice in order to save himself this time.
"Robert Cook said...
Ha! Cheney picked himself to be vice-President. Probably to insure the "Bush" presidency would be run the way the bosses wanted it run. Why would he want a "stepping stone" to the presidency when he was the defacto president?"
LOL. Jedi mind control?
"There's no question Cheney was competent...but is it a plus to have someone who is competent who is also evil?"
Yep, nothing says evil like giving away millions to charity to serve your country.
"Why would he want a "stepping stone" to the presidency when he was the defacto president?"
Wait, wait ... I thought Karl Rove was Running the show.
"Cheney picked himself to be vice-Pres"
What a liar ! I almost admire the effrontery but I can't see you to see if you were smiling at it.
Cheney turned Bush down twice and it cost him millions to accept finally.
We were lucky to have him there and, I suspect, it will not be too many years before we learn what Obama has cost us. Clinton was very lucky to get out before the consequences of his feckless policies came to bite us.
Is it OK if I believe:
1. The committee is full of crap
and
2. Dick Cheney is full of crap?
The committee was a hit job, and Cheney could look you in the eye and lie about anything.
I saw the interview, and Cheney's most frequent response to Baier quoting specific allegations was that "he had not read that," or "he had not seen that," with a clear intimation that neither was he going to.
Basically, the whole interview boiled down to that they did what they thought they had to do at the time, and he (and presumably George W.) was not going to weasel out of it now. Nor was he going to say a bad word about people who had acted on their orders, whether or not 100% good judgment had been used in all cases.
Dick Cheney is Dick Cheney, and he tells it like it is. He is not the problem.
A parallel might be when Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus in Maryland and around D.C. area.
"Should I have let all other principles go in order to maintain this one?" (or something like that) - anyway he did not dodge the question.
The Supreme Court said that the President indeed did not have the power to do that, but they prudently waited until the war was over before saying so.
In politics it is better to be thought the liar than they guy who was lied to.
"Schwarzkopf notes that the unnamed official who'd made the comment "was a civilian who knew next to nothing about military affairs, but he'd been watching the Civil War documentary on public television and was now an expert."
Guess who Schwarzkopf is talking about?
"What if we parachute the 82nd Airborne into the far western part of Iraq, hundreds of miles from Kuwait and totally cut off from any kind of support, and seize a couple of missile sites, then line up along the highway and drive for Baghdad? Schwarzkopf charitably describes the plan as being "as bad as it could possibly be... But despite our criticism, the western excursion wouldn't die: three times in that week alone Powell called with new variations from Cheney's staff. The most bizarre involved capturing a town in western Iraq and offering it to Saddam in exchange for Kuwait."
Contrast Bret Baier's interview with Cheney to the committee member Senator Dan Coats (R-IN) on Bill O'Reilly. The guy would not give O'Reilly one straight answer. You could not tell him from a Democrat.
@Althouse said "Only 4 VPs have entered the presidency through running for President and getting elected President, and George H.W. Bush is the only one since 1836."
Since WWII there have been 12 presidents. Of those, 5 were VP first: Truman, LBJ, Nixon, Ford and Bush1. Bush1 is the only one of those to be elected directly from VP to the White House; Nixon did it a decade after Ike stepped down. Truman and LBJ took over while VP when their predecessors died, but were then re-elected on their own. Ford took over when Nixon resigned, and then was defeated by Carter.
So 42% of our presidents for the last 70 years.
Cjf
Owen said...
As for the quality of the report: apparently the investigators never got around to interviewing key witnesses who knew/used these interrogation methods.
Did the Democrats use Rolling Stone fact checkers?
I believe Dick more than I believe DiFi. I remember the "we're all in this together" mood after 9/11 and the 500-1 vote (roughly) to go to war in Afghanistan, and how soon there appeared an "I was for it a'fore I was agin it" caucus which soon mutated into the "the war is lost" coalition of Democrats. This latest load of crap is just the natural progression of lying progressives and their regret for ever being patriotic.
Yeah, I question their patriotism.
garage mahal: ""Schwarzkopf notes..."
LOL
Stick with us here garage.
The topic is the senate dems "CYA" report.
Do you need some time to refocus?
Believing Diane Feinstein on anything is an act of folly. She is perhaps THE most egregious thief in the Senate and will say anything for a short term advantage.
Since we cannot reach a consensus when enhanced interrogation is justified, the resolution is directed by legal and moral precedent in the pro-choice policy. So, when the choice is to inject a lethal dose, or to decapitate and dismember a human body, for cause of money, pleasure, ego, convenience, or population control, then it is morally and legally justified to employ enhanced interrogation of enemy combatants for cause of self-defense.
I like to be as cynical as the next guy, but isn't it entirely possible that multiple motives can be operating simultaneously? Sure, members of Congress are unprincipled, led around by partisan interest, and hypocritical. But that doesn't mean that in service of those base instincts good work can be done. If torture is going to be authorized through legal channels by democratically elected members of government, then the electorate has a right to know how that torture is being doled out. An imperfect report is better than no report at all. Does Cheney's entire argument boil down to, "Trust me?"
"Does Cheney's entire argument boil down to, 'Trust me?'"
It's a BIT more wide than that. It's "trust the owners of the country."
"Does Cheney's entire argument boil down to 'trust me?'l
No, it boils down to "Fuck you!"
Cook: "No, it boils down to "Fuck you!"
Cookie gets disoriented and thinks he's at an OWS rally or something.
"Cook: "No, it boils down to "Fuck you!"
Cookie gets disoriented and thinks he's at an OWS rally or something."
Cheney may think that but he is not a leftist idiot who spews vulgarities as punctuation.
It is once to see that garage doesn't believe Schwartzkopf is a war criminal.
No, Cheney's argument boils down to enhanced interrogation can be used in privacy when there is probable cause that a threat exists to the nation, its allies, or interests. This is in contrast to a pro-choice policy that establishes premeditated murder of wholly innocent human lives can be committed in privacy for pleasure, to facilitate taxable activity, and as an enhanced population control technique.
He is also stating that both he and Bush are taking responsibility, and will not summarily sacrifice the subordinates. Neither Bush nor Cheney are watching a video.
Politics and the merits of the report aside, most Americans don't care. They see the beheadings on TV and have no problem with what the CIA does to suspected terrorists.
"Cook: 'No, it boils down to "Fuck you!"'
"Cookie gets disoriented and thinks he's at an OWS rally or something."
12/11/14, 3:11 PM
Drago's inscrutable nob-sequitur suggests he doesn't understand this is the crux of Cheney's, uh, " appeal," for those who find him appealing: that he is as belligerent and heedless of propriety or legality as they.
"Belligerent", "heedless of propriety and legality" is an absolutely spot on description of each and every OWS rally that one could possibly generate.
Well done comrade.
Btw cookie, do you have a spare $1 million hanging around? If so you and garage could purchase James Foleys headless body from ISIS.
ISIS has decided to market the remains.
Nice.
You can return to crying about waterboarding now.
BTW, John Brennan was on TV tonight and flatly admitted that "non-authorized" EIT methods were used in "some" instances.
"Cheney's, uh, " appeal," for those who find him appealing: that he is as belligerent and heedless of propriety or legality as they."
There is a certain subset of humans who expect others to make sure they are safe but they do not wish to acknowledge this fact. Orwell said it best:
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
There is a segment of the Democrat Party, or sometimes the Socialist Party, who deny they are alive because of men they disdain.
Some of them over the years have chosen to take risks like Lew Ayres and John Walton and act as military corpsmen and risk their own lives in battle.
Others prefer the safety of the internet or the Senate (yes, I'm talking about you, Senator Durbin) where they can snipe at better men.
As we see.
And a CIA oldtimer named Rizzo confirms that, but says that it in each instance the CIA self-reported to the DoJ, and in each instance that was the last they heard of it.
And they all say that the Congress committees were thoroughly informed at the time, at least about all "authorized" methods, and all they ever heard from these late-blossoming doves were demands about why didn't the CIA get rougher.
mccullough:
I think most Americans would hesitate to offer their consent for commission of actual torture; but, like commission of premeditated abortion of wholly innocent human lives in the case of rape, there is a morally ambiguous loophole in the case of enhanced interrogation.
These moral loopholes need to be addressed, but I don't think the great majority of Americans are prepared to have that conversation. Also, in the case of enhanced interrogation, there is probable cause to believe that the subject has hostile intent, and information useful in carrying out self-defense, that is self-evidently lacking in the case of pregnancy following rape.
If Cheney is darth Vader is al Qaeda or ISIS the rebellion? And is the guy chopping off all the journalists heads Luke Skywalker? Whos Han Solo? Sadaam Hussein?
I 'll take the Empire then, thanks. I hope the rebellion gets drone striked into non existence. And if the heads of ISIS get water boarded for being douchesacks, before being shot by firing squad I'm all for it. for that little twerp chopping off people's heads I'd be ok if he was killed and then his head put on a spike as a warning for anyone who wanted to Join ISIS.
He actually said "full of shit".
3000 reasons why this was needed.
Simple question Mr. Cheney: What operational terrorist plots were disrupted thanks to the torturing of detainees? Give us an example of a crucial piece of intelligence that made America safer.
https://books.google.com/books?id=ZU00AQAAQBAJ&pg=PT652&lpg=PT652&dq=Michener+knife+work+in+the+swamp+Betsy+might+not+understand&source=bl&ots=42EBKmM9uV&sig=U_bf4PpSPK3qfjfv7kB4YGZDINY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YFWMVOSsFNXGsQTvgoCgBA&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Michener%20knife%20work%20in%20the%20swamp%20Betsy%20might%20not%20understand&f=false
P.S. Do not tell Mother or Betsy Belle about the knife work in the swamp. They might not understand.
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