"Man Uses Spreadsheet to List All the Times Wife Turned Down Sex; Wife Posts It on Reddit."
You can see the spreadsheet at that link, but not at the original Reddit post, where the image is removed and the discussion is now locked. I haven't read the 600+ comments over there, and I'm sure there are many things one could say about this couple's problems and what might help, but I'm just going to observe that if he thinks she's sexy when she thinks she's "gross" and needs a shower, she could see things from his point of view for a few minutes and then take a shower. I know that sounds a bit efficiency-expert-y, but why prioritize your negative body image when he likes you the way you are?
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Funny only once is he responsible: "You're too drunk". All the other times she put it on her self(centered) feelings.
I vote with Ann on this.
Maybe she just doesn't dig sex or sex with him.
This inspire me to finally make that PornPoint presentation application...should be better than a mere spreadsheet!
I know that sounds a bit efficiency-expert-y, but why prioritize your negative body image when he likes you the way you are?
Silly Althouse...that is easy...because it is always, always about what the woman wants.
A guy at work said that it was his birthday so he'd get annual sex tonight.
My office mate replied he envied the situation because his wife wouldn't leave him alone.
The same office mate, when an old co-worker came in to say he'd miss some meeting because his mother-in-law died, said that he wished his mother-in-law would die.
He was a cliche terrorist.
"The same office mate, when an old co-worker came in to say he'd miss some meeting because his mother-in-law died, said that he wished his mother-in-law would die."
Back in the 80s, when my husband left me, I told a guy in my office that my husband left me, and he said "I wish my wife would leave me."
"Funny only once is he responsible: "You're too drunk". All the other times she put it on her self(centered) feelings."
But my point was that her feelings were negative about herself, and he was bringing her a more positive view of herself, and she rejected thinking highly of herself.
That's not easily dismissible as "self-centered."
That's a sad failure to see what is good about what you have.
But my point was that her feelings were negative about herself, and he was bringing her a more positive view of herself, and she rejected thinking highly of herself.
No..those were merely excuses to avoid having sex with her husband. My guess is that it is actually the opposite...she thinks that he doesn't deserve sex with her. I'd bet money that she is having an affair (emotional or physical) and is having her needs filled somewhere else.
But my point was that her feelings were negative about herself, and he was bringing her a more positive view of herself, and she rejected thinking highly of herself.
verses:
“These songs, which presume to assure women that they are attractive (and, by extension, worthwhile),” Rebolini writes, “assume that the singer’s relationship to our bodies overrules our relationship with them."
Better watch out, Professor, or she'll go black in the eyes for a second, and wheel around on you, forcefully informing you: I don’t fucking care if he as a more positive view.
That's not easily dismissible as "self-centered."
It's easily dismissible as passive-aggressive. If she tells him no because of some fault of his then she looks like a bitch. If she tells him no because of some self-perceived fault of her own, and he then complains then he is an asshole.
Ann Althouse,
"That's a sad failure to see what is good about what you have."
Don't get me started,….
I wonder how the feminists would respond to a male redditor posting a list given to him by his wife of the times he refused chores or assisting with the housework.
Yes, the comparison of sex and chores is advised.
"what might help"
Nothing. It's a hoax, a click-bait. The couple want to claim their 15 seconds of fame on the internet. The site harvests traffic.
There's nothing wrong with a guy wanting to bonk his wife/gf. If she with holds it to that degree, there is a problem.
And the excuses are prettly lame."I need to take a shower" which she doesn't even do until the following day.
If she is not interested in sex, she should give him the option to cheat outside the marriage. Or give up the marriage.
Or at least meet him half way. Maybe initiate sex with him some time.
Man is a child. Wife is a moron.
The next excel file he sends her is going to be the 17 times he thought about initiating sex with her but didn't because he didn't want to feel like he was bothering her.
There will be a separate sheet on their that shows the numer of times she initiated sex with him in that same period and it will be blank.
Then his third spread sheet he sends her way will be the amount of sex he got from other women outside the marriage who had no problem giving it to him, and on the last sheet will be a scan of the divorce papers.
And she can go back to her tv shows and showers.
Are women really clueless about how important sex is to most men in a marriage?
I am interested in the women who criticize him for keeping data. So he keeps objective evidence that she can't undermine and it's his fault for proving exactly when and why she has rejected his expressed desire to have sex. So much easier for women to be vague about the topic and dismiss the significance of number of times for rejection if no data is kept. The women who criticize him don't want to be confronted with facts.
And now that she knows, does she start giving better reasons, knowing that she will be confronted with the evidence at a later time?
7/21/2014: No. Vaginal discharge.
7/22/2014: No. Inpatient abdominal surgery.
7/23/2014: No. Mother in law sleeping in bed.
7/24/2014: No. Gave birth today. Sore.
ETC ETC
The problem with this controversy is that it misses the context. Those of us who lived through sexless marriages can very much relate. Based on my own experience, I imagine that after many arguments one conversation went something like this:
Her: You're such a pervert, we just had sex last weekend.
Him: No, last weekend, you were on your period. The last time we had sex was six weeks ago after we got back from dinner and a movie.
Her: No way. I remember.
It's called gaslighting and can make you feel like you are going insane. So you start keeping a journal of all things, not just sex. In this guy's case, he kept just a sex journal, but the rationale was likely the same.
As for the negative comments, part of it is the classic "what women want is good, what men want is bad." But another part is that many people just can't empathize with the situation. The American uncomfort with sex also plays a roll.
Several years ago, while trying to deal with my then wife, I frequented a religious forum hoping to find some help. A woman posted that her husband never wanted to have sex. Ever. I'd say that fully half the responses were blaming her; she was lousy in bed, she had bad hygiene, she was too horny, she was unreasonable, he was tired, she lacked respect and so on. It infuriated me, so I defended her and got attacked as well.
BTW, what the woman did is despicable. My ex did similar things; taking what I thought were extremely private conversations and blasting them to online friends, usually out-of-context and twisted in her favor and to make me look bad. (With the latter in mind, it's possible she made up the spreadsheet based on a conversation or email.)
Man is a child.
It is this attitude that infuriates me. It is obvious to me that the spreadsheet, or at least some of the data, was the result of years of the wife telling him he was mistaken and a liar. This is a man at the proverbial end of his rope.
This isn't just about sex, but about intimacy, trust and honesty. That the woman published this is extremely telling. No surprise, that to an extent her public shaming tactic worked--she now looks like the victim and he the abuser.
Man is a child.
Ohhhh, a married man wants to have sex with his wife. How immature. What a jerk.
nn Althouse said...
"Funny only once is he responsible: "You're too drunk". All the other times she put it on her self(centered) feelings."
But my point was that her feelings were negative about herself, and he was bringing her a more positive view of herself, and she rejected thinking highly of herself.
That's not easily dismissible as "self-centered."
That's a sad failure to see what is good about what you have.
7/20/14, 8:57 AM
Gahrie said...
But my point was that her feelings were negative about herself, and he was bringing her a more positive view of herself, and she rejected thinking highly of herself.
No..those were merely excuses to avoid having sex with her husband. My guess is that it is actually the opposite...she thinks that he doesn't deserve sex with her. I'd bet money that she is having an affair (emotional or physical) and is having her needs filled somewhere else.
7/20/14, 9:09 AM
1-who wants to bet that she was giving him plenty of nooky before they were married?
2-who wants to bet against her currently having an affair (emotional or physical)and is having her needs met elsewhere?
Interesting how younger men who have long term girlfriends but not wives don't seem to have this problem.
"But my point was that her feelings were negative about herself, and he was bringing her a more positive view of herself, and she rejected thinking highly of herself."
You are operating under the assumption that those were reasons why she wasn't interested in having sex; they weren't. They were justifications. She simply doesn't want to have sex with him anymore and she's coming up with whatever excuse fits the moment to get him to leave her alone. If she wanted to have sex with him, she would.
Source: bitter experience.
I don't know about showers but when any man goes on a diet, his wife should immediately hire a private detective.
But my point was that her feelings were negative about herself, and he was bringing her a more positive view of herself, and she rejected thinking highly of herself.
That's not easily dismissible as "self-centered."
That's a sad failure to see what is good about what you have.
This presupposes that she is telling the truth in her objections. She might also be trying to avoid telling him the real reason, which is that she finds him icky and gross. Classic projection or classic lie. Hard to decide.
On the other hand he may not be telling the truth. Its quite likely that he is not giving the "whole" truth, especially as she sees it. It would really be interesting (if she had been keeping notes too) to compare the reactions.
Setting all this aside, a willing, considerate and eager sexual partner is quite wonderful. It's too bad so many people find impediments to this.
Sex and marriage are tricky.
Not sure how involving Reddit helps.
Best of luck to them.
Does the guy look bad in this case because he resorted to a particular digital tool -- a spreadsheet?
The information didn't actually need to be a spreadsheet; it is nothing more than a list. Is a "list" less nerdy than a "spreadsheet" and thereby less likely to be ridiculed?
I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think that a lot of what makes this story an icon of human-interest joke stories is the "spreadsheet" aspect.
I'm with Joe, by the way. What possible excuse/reason does the woman have for posting the spreadsheet and her story online? It is a grievous insult to the man that a private communication be communicated to third parties or even strangers for the mere amusement of the communicator. Women are terrible abusers in this regard. Really despicable.
As for the matters of sexual preference, I make no judgment about the man or the woman. As for the morality of sharing private communications, the woman is a hateful bitch and someone should tell her that. I hope she reads this.
Agree that the public sharing of intimate information is nasty.
Beyond that though, if there was a way to imagine that we know this information without knowing how it was shared, I don't think I agree with any of the comments so far. They are having trouble with intimacy, that's as much as we can tell from the data. Assigning blame is impossible from the limited information, and it's counterproductive anyway.
I guess by making this public they sort of invited that kind of speculation (presume she is the one who decided to go public, though I don't know that for sure either) but the responses really say more about the responders' own projections than anything intrinsic to this couple's married life.
@chuck-
If the details are correct, my view is that the nastiness on the husband's part was the way he delivered the information to her. If he truly wanted to document her excuses and confront her about it in a manner to try to resolve the problem, he would have chosen a time when they could sit down together and discuss it. By dropping it on her while he was out of town, and with hurtful commentary, it doesn't seem that his goal was reconciliation.
The spreadsheet part IMO adds levity, which could have been a good thing if he hadn't botched the delivery of it. Whether he botched it because he was really just venting anger, or because he's a bit clueless on communication skills and conflict resolution, we have no way of knowing.
CStanley:
I think my point is that of all of the major/minor problems and failures of communication between this couple, the one and only thing that I find inexcusable, inexplicable and despicable is her posting the spreadsheet (and the story) online.
And it is of a piece, with the habit of so many (thankfully not all women) to take their marital problems to their BFFs and other non-professional third parties. I can think of few things (okay, infidelity is one) more destructive to quality marriages. I have known lots of women with that habit. Almost without exception, those women are divorced. Or should be divorced.
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