We got into a huge fight. Mel told me that I needed to realize what she was up against. And then she told me something that really hit home. She said, “Sometimes it comes down between cleaning the house, and taking Tristan and Norah to the park. Or spending time having fun with them, or teaching them to read or write. Sometimes I can either do the dishes, or teach our son how to ride a bike, or our daughter how to walk. I’d rather do those things, frankly. I’d rather not be that mom who ignores our kids, and myself, because I’m so busy worrying about what the neighbors might think of our messy house.”How about spending time teaching Tristan and Norah how to help with the dishes?
IN THE COMMENTS: Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) says:
Our daughter turned 3 a few months ago. So far this month she's done all of the following, most of them several times, and it's not an exhaustive list: picked up her books and toys; swept the kitchen floor; vacuumed her room (sort of); fed the cats every day; fed the dogs; rinsed dishes and placed them in the drainer (we wash by hand); set the table for supper several times; picked raspberries; made and baked cookies in her own toaster oven; cracked and scrambled her own breakfast eggs; hung clothes on the line; brushed out a shedding dog and put the fur in the trash; picked tomatoes; sliced cucumbers with a very sharp serrated knife (under close supervision); competently nailed in shoe moulding with her own 12 oz hammer; figured our which wire nuts I need or three different projects and handed me the right one; helped prune *roses*; cut zinnias and made a vase of them for Papa's office; handed me wrenches (usually the right one) as I have repaired farm equipment; and ... had a glorious good time with each and both of her parents as we go about the normal activities of our lives.
*None* of that has prevented her from beginning her basic reading, becoming fluent in two languages (beginning a third), going for walks with us, taking music lessons, spending hours creating kingdoms in her sandbox, or bringing us caterpillars she wants to watch become butterflies.
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The retort is that Tristan and Norah are 3 and 1, so they really can't help. However, Tristan and Norah take naps and that's prime cleaning time. However, fb (or Althouse) calls....
And it's not bad parenting to take one morning of the week and NOT be "super"mom, put in a movie and fold some laundry or run the dishwasher so that it's out of sight.
If you name your kids Tristan and Norah, you may not be grooming them to wash dishes.
Or maybe he realized that he was already digging a deep hole, and that telling Mel she might teach the kids to do the dishes would deepen it further.
Plus if he did his own dishes in the morning, how many damn dishes could they have?
Also, paper plates. Are kids named Tristan and Norah not allowed to eat from paper plates?
Tristan, Norah and Baby Aspen. Yikes. He really did have a traumatic childhood.
Do these newspaper and blog editors actually read his blog before then publish to much information musings as a worthwhile commentary on parenting? Unfortunately they probably do.
It is not that hard to keep a house tidy but Mr. Mel should remember that he married her for better or worse. To me that would include not writing about the worse bits.
I'm not convinced the confessional style works in an advice column. Ms Manners gives you advice. She does not confess.
But if she does the housework, what will the maid have to do?
If a mom is "teaching" her kids how to walk and ride bikes, that gets filed under "entertainment for mom".
The kids themselves do not need help with those things. They are entirely capable of learning on their own.
Clint will be happy to know that my first impulse upon reading this headline was to judge him, not his wife.
Why?
Because all the guys I know work and clean, whether the mom is full time stay at home or not. Some have maids, some do not. The guys still clean.
(Upon reading the full article, I see he did pitch in, but nevertheless worries about his wife getting judged.)
Oh, I totally believe in kids learning to do chores; but before they were 8, my kids weren't very helpful. Chores for young children are to teach them skills that will pay off later; you don't really get any significant help keeping things clean.
Anyway, Hubby and I had this exact fight many times. When our kids were young, I generally had the house clean every day. I just couldn't make any guarantees about what 15 minute period that cleanliness might occur in. Hubby would come home and simply have no clue how 2 or 3 small things (an untaken nap, a missed ingredient, the finding of a sharpie) could derail our home life so much.
What finally helped was when I compared that tendency to come home, look around, and make a snap-judgment, to backseat driving. We call it "backseat prioritzing" now, and everybody's clear about why it's not cool.
"I'd rather not be a Mom who ignores our kids" is the warning sign. In too many Moms it translates to "I'm going to be the Mom who makes the kids the sole focus of my life." I hear from them when their kids are freshmen in college.
Their names are Tristan and Norah. She's better off teaching them how to take a punch, as that's what they'll be doing for the next twenty years.
"We always have random kids hanging out in our living room, "
There's a difference between messy and dirty and they need to work on the dirty. But whether he realizes it or not, he hosts the fun house, where kids like to hang out. Other parents have clean houses and there's a reason that's not where the kids go when they have free time.
Our daughter turned 3 a few months ago. So far this month she's done all of the following, most of them several times, and it's not an exhaustive list: picked up her books and toys; swept the kitchen floor; vacuumed her room (sort of); fed the cats every day; fed the dogs; rinsed dishes and placed them in the drainer (we wash by hand); set the table for supper several times; picked raspberries; made and baked cookies in her own toaster oven; cracked and scrambled her own breakfast eggs; hung clothes on the line; brushed out a shedding dog and put the fur in the trash; picked tomatoes; sliced cucumbers with a very sharp serrated knife (under close supervision); competently nailed in shoe moulding with her own 12 oz hammer; figured our which wire nuts I need or three different projects and handed me the right one; helped prune *roses*; cut zinnias and made a vase of them for Papa's office; handed me wrenches (usually the right one) as I have repaired farm equipment; and ... had a glorious good time with each and both of her parents as we go about the normal activities of our lives.
*None* of that has prevented her from beginning her basic reading, becoming fluent in two languages (beginning a third), going for walks with us, taking music lessons, spending hours creating kingdoms in her sandbox, or bringing us caterpillars she wants to watch become butterflies.
And, Oh, Yeah, Birches: Nap time for kiddo is nap time for the parents (not cleaning time) ... unless the two kids are on different schedules (of course they are), or, like our daughter, stopped all naps before hitting ONE.
It can still be a fantastic experience. And I agree that Mr. Edwards has "No idea what [he's] doing."
I haven't gone through this myself, so yes I am "judge-mental" when I see other people's homes. Somehow, my mom and my sisters (all had 4 kids each), not only made 3 meals a day (including lunch and snacks for dad to take to work) , did all the house chores, sometimes including the "man/yard" work so the weekends we could spend more time together (my sister got up an hour before everyone to get started), the house was spotless, the kids (including me as I was almost a generation younger than my sisters), learned to walk, ride bikes, swim (red cross lessons at the beach), etc. I don't remember my mom being all that involved in me riding a bike (trike to bike with training wheels and one day dad would take them off).
I have noticed the many of the current generation of "stay at home," moms don't do a lot of that. The houses are dirty (some just messy, others dirty!), the kids clothes aren't as clean, dad makes his lunch, sometimes cooks dinner too and I have no idea what "supermom" does because the kids are watching videos or coloring. One I know did make it to 7 with out learning to ride a bike and I was incensed because she did need to be coached because she was afraid (if I didn't live so far away, I would do it). They don't know how to swim either. The minivan's floors are filled with kid garbage. Girls have hair that is in knots - why? "She won't let me touch it."
However, they all seem to make it out to "mommy's night out with the girls" and sometimes overnights in the city with "just the girls." Which my mom and sisters never did with young kids.
Obviously this touched a nerve because they all give themselves the super-mom badges. My sisters and mother were good moms (my mom cleaned the kitchen floor every night when I was crawling) and took pride in their job.
Sounds like a typical Dr. Laura S phone call. Dr. Laura usually advises dealing with reality and compromising.
The retort is that Tristan and Norah are 3 and 1, so they really can't help.
My son, who's 1 1/2, thinks that putting dishes away is the best thing ever. If you're trying to empty the dishwasher, and not including him, he stands around and begs as if you have the world's best candy and are not sharing.
Granted, his help is not particularly *helpful*; I'm sure that it takes longer to pick out the dishes that he can safely handle, then follow him and guide him in putting them where they go, but it's fun and adorable, and amuses the heck out of him (he claps for himself when he does it correctly), and is a great way to get things done while still spending time together.
Article: How to raise another slob who has zero concept of what it takes to take care of yourself and your home environment.
In all things a balance. For many years we lived only a few blocks away from my in-laws. From time to time, my wife would ask her mother to go shopping or to go to lunch. Her mother was almost always too busy with house cleaning.
The house was less then 2,000 square feet, and the only people there were my mother-in-law and father-in-law. She did not seem to grasp that she needed to make time for other things. Now, of course, it's too late.
What I see now is that there is a lot of her mother in my wife--though you couldn't tell it by looking at our house.
Cleaning is a skill that kids need to learn along with piano lessons, riding a bike, etc. We got rid of our cleaning person when the kids got old enough to help. We all (mom, dad, kids) clean the house together, working side-by-side on the weekend. My kids know how to clean and when they got to college and lived in apartments they would complain their roommates did not know how to clean! Messes are ok as long as the floors, counters, etc. under the messes are clean.
I think small children sometimes actually enjoy chores. I know I enjoyed sweeping when I was a little boy.
I enjoy the presumption that the vast majority of children are born with no predispositions and will embrace the environment the parents raise them in.
I used to feel the same way.
There goes Bart Hall again. Braggart. ; )
We will want to keep an eye on that daughter of yours, Bert. Keep us posted.
The reason why it is very difficult to keep a clean home with kids is linked to having to be watching them 24/7. In the good old days, mom just kicked the kids outside so they could ride their bikes all day while she cooked and cleaned. Alas, that is no longer an option. I have a 2,4 and 6 year old in a 2 bedroom, walk up condo. No fenced in backyard, no playroom other than their bedroom, no garage to store bikes etc, no regular access to a swimming pool. My husband works all the time so it is just me, myself and I. No, the condo is not clean. I cannot clean with the kids in the place--they make another mess as soon as I turn around from cleaning the first mess. And since I believe kids need to be outside as much as possible, I take them to the park for hours. Their outdoor time is a higher priority for me. I'm trying not to freak about them not knowing how to swim or ride a bike yet but it is not easy. Keeps me up at night.
Brando's comment gave me a good laugh.
The author seems caught up in the feminist point of view that being a stay-at-home mom is not on par with other professional occupations.
Shame on him, the sonofabitch. He should be doing his own laundry. Jerk.
I grew up in a house with 13 foster kids.
Clean the house?
I have NO IDEA what world you people live in,...
Beta male straight up.
Take the red pill, dude. There is no reason she can't play with your kids and clean the house also.
Beta male straight up.
Take the red pill, dude. There is no reason she can't play with your kids and clean the house as well.
Set expectations for her.
Not cleaning is lazy. Been home with kid, still cleaned.
When you don't clean, you're making the other spouse do it. It's the same as going on strike. That doesn't mean the working spouse is off the hook, but it's a matter of time and energy. You can't expect someone to work all day and do all the daily cleaning tasks as well. I've been on both sides of that. When I was at home I liked having a cleaning routine.
Too many educated people have decided that cleaning the house is demeaning. It's not. Have some pride.
I'm SAHM with two small kids (3 and 4 months). This is totally silly. This is just a person who doesn't want to clean. Your kids don't need constant stimulation and giving it to them turns them into neurotic messes. When it's time for me to do some cleaning I get the baby situated (either asleep or playing somewhere safe near me) and either have my 3 year old help with the chores or tell her to entertain herself while I get some work done. She knows its part of Mommy's job to keep the house clean. I've posted here before (I was a federal clerk and practicing Big Law attorney for years). When I hear all this whining about being a Stay at Home Parent I'm always stunned by it. Being at home has its challenges, but it is not a hard job. I would take being home with my kids over practicing as an attorney every day of the week and I'm so grateful my husband shoulders the burden of financially providing.
People who say being an at-home parent is the hardest job have never had a hard job.
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