Justice Clarence Thomas has probably the most unique take...Wouldn't you know?!
... pronouncing the first two syllables as "sertzee." Several justices pronounce the last syllable as "eye," while others say "ee." Justice Anthony Kennedy... is the only justice to pronounce it “ser-shee-or-ARR-eye,” so that the end rhymes with "far cry." Befitting her upbringing in fast-talking New York, Justice Sonia Sotomayor drops an entire syllable, pronouncing the word as “ser-shee-ARR-ee.”You could make like Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Elena Kagan and swap in the abbreviation, "cert," for the word, but I don't think that's wise for lawyers arguing to the Justices, who obviously have some reason for keeping the silly word alive in the spoken-word tradition. But then whose pronunciation do you use?
Retired Justice John Paul Stevens led a faction that pronounces the word to rhyme with "Ferrari," as in “ser-shee-or-RAHR-ee.” Another group led by Chief Justice John Roberts Jr. has adopted “ser-shee-or-RARE-eye,” rhyming with “fair guy.”
No matter which pronunciation they pick... a majority of justices will say to themselves, “That is not how I would have said it.”I've always used the John Paul Stevens rhymes-with-Ferrari approach, but he's not on the Court anymore, and who do you want to butter up? I recommend saying “ser-shee-or-ARR-eye."
Much more here — PDF — in Professor James J. Duane's essay, "The Proper Pronunciation of Certiorari/The Supreme Court's Surprising Six-Way Split."
ADDED: This attention to correctness made me, on proofreading, consider switching to "whom" in the phrase "who do you want to butter up." I decided not to because it's a cheeky, casual, spoken-word-style phrase, and that makes "who" correct in context. If I really wanted to satisfy pedants who might carp in the comments, I'd have to deal with the (non)problem of ending the clause with a preposition, which would require me to write something ludicrous: "up whom do you want to butter?"
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Speaking as a former altar boy in a time when Latin was still the language of the mass, I see it as sehr-tee-or-AHR-ee. Of course, now one ever accused lawyers of being linguists.
Thanks for noting implicitly the implicit RAAAAAAAAAACISM of the linkee.
I would have preferred you to address it head-on, and call the fool out on his obvious racism.
But that would not be playing nice with another liberal, would it?
I go with a hard c.
Latin isn't that difficult.
@rhhardin You may enjoy Duane's footnote 19:
"Oddly, however, not one justice pronounces the “t” in this word like the “t” in certain, and none pronounce the first four letters “kert,” as a Latin orator would; virtually all assume that the “tio” should be spoken “shee-o” – like the “tio” in ratio."
Certainly not Maria Schneider.
I prefer the English method of contraction and slurring to arrive at
ser-CHOR-eee
Who is correct everywhere except as object of a fronted preposition, for example in "For who the bell tolls."
That's not a case mistake, though. "Who does the bell toll for" is okay.
It's a register mistake. The fronted preposition is formal register, and who-for-whom is informal register, and the two sound wrong mixed.
"Up" is a particle, not a preposition.
Not only do they have unique interpretations of the constitution but they can't even agree on how to pronounce words.
In both cases it should be what it says. So in the case the constitution there is no such thing as a penumbra. and in the case of the word the dictionary has the proper pronunciation and that is the valid one.
No one outside of Classic Departments ever pronounces the "C"s as "K"s. Nobody ever says "Kikero". It just sounds too pompous outside of a Latin seminar.
In the case, I'll give the Jews on the Supreme Court a pass, but the Catholics need to get it together & at least agree on either Classical or Church pronunciation.
Up whom do you want to butter, rh?
But the Anglo-saxon English legal system was Germanic and never used Latin. It was taken over by French of William the Conqueror's men to keep the Saxon rabble out of the government loop.
So a French "Sir see' ore ree" sounds right. And the Spanish Sotomayor comes close to that.
But the Cambridge at Oxford Philosopher/scholars wanting to end run around things French started a Latin pronunciation of French words game that snobs imitate today.
Safety officers of all kinds pronounce the h in vehicle.
They learn the word from other safety officers they've seen on TV as kids in their mobile home.
There's a traditional English way of pronouncing Latin words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_English_pronunciation_of_Latin. I think Justice Kennedy's is the closest to the English way.
As a child, I was taught the classical Latin pronunciation (v=w), except for prayers, which use the ecclesiastical pronunciation(caelis = chehlees, as opposed to kai-lees). At law school, I was taught whatever pronunciation lawyers use (res judicata = race (or ress) joodicahtuh). For a dead language, Latin sure has a bunch of different dialects.
Fascinating. I thought the universal pronunciation was Sir-she-or-are-ee.
So ... is void dire pronounced vwah-dear or vore-dire?
Bryan Garner says kah-RIB-be-un is okay as well as care-ih-bee-un. But I prefer not to consult him.
In Standard Amerikan English, the 'ti' is usually pronounced 'sh' as in "nation."
I bugs me no end to hear the limp-wristed 's' that some use in the first 'ti' in "negotiation," pronouncing it "negosiashun" instead of the unaffected and normal "negoshiashun."
Those folks need to watch fewer Brit novelas.
The pronunciation of Latin is very different between an altar boy and an Oxford scholar. I have given up myself even though I sometimes punish myself by listening to tapes of spoken Latin while following along with the text. I came up through the altar boy ranks and therefore am hopeless with classical Latin.
That is Justice Thomas' problem.
Just say cert. It will make your breath more pleasant as well.
If we had a single Protestant or atheist on SCOTUS, not to mention a math or physics major, we might hear some intelligent Standard Amerikan English spoken.
I'd enjoy hearing our bunch of unschooled Justices pronounce "voir dire" or "Sciavo."
Correction: "Schiavo"
"Up whom do you want to butter, rh?"
and you a married woman. For shame.
I'm with Tyrone - and not just because he's really Thomas Pynchon.
Latin ain't that hard to pronounce, even if we Americans don't pronounce "c" like a Roman would.
medieval latin generally took that initial C (when followed by i- or e-sounds) as CH (chapter), which I suppose is reflected in Thomas' "tz" (also a medievalistic affectation). It's like ordering bruschetta at the olive garden.
...pronounce the first four letters “kert,” as a Latin orator would...
Mr. Chips would beg to differ.
Were we have a physicist or mathematician on the Court we would be reading things like this: "The issue in this case is analogous to whether the class of all classes is a member of itself." or "The Dark Matter of the Constitution is inexorably pulling it towards..."
No, mtrobertsattorney,
If we had a mathematician or physicist on the court (we sort of do in Breyer), we'd have folks who could understand economics, cause & effect, cost/benefit, regression toward the mean, simple logic and exhaustive analysis.
Anyway, the question really is: "Is the class of all classes not members of themselves a member of itself?"
But besides the specific STEM knowledge, we'd have Justices who had actually received a liberal education, math and physics being important parts of such, instead of a bunch of wishy-washy English, poly sci, and history majors. None of them even has an advanced degree in economics, for chrissake, and they're all clueless when it comes to statistics and probability, without which it's hard to understand the deep stupidity of Obamacare, for example.
The non-ecclesiastical Latin pronunication is ... kehr--tee--oh--rah(stress)--ree
The English pronunciation turns out to be a quick "sir cher ee". And the Writ was a tool of the Court of King's Bench in England sent out as an Order to another Court demanding certified information on a case so the King could take over the case.
The English commoners like to elide speech. Like Norwich comes out Norridge. But talking in scholarly Latin can still impress peasants.
I'm sticking with Kick-er-oh: ker-ti-o-rah-ri
"Up" is a particle, not a preposition.
Of which I will not put!
No one outside of Classic Departments ever pronounces the "C"s as "K"s. Nobody ever says "Kikero". It just sounds too pompous outside of a Latin seminar.
I went to a web page that verbally pronounces Latin.
Julius Ceasar is pronounce: OO lee us KAI ser.
At least it explains the German word for Emperor.
I take it that jimbino thinks the question "What is Justice?" can be answered by a mathematical equation.
As for Breyer, his lack a traditional liberal education has turned him into a narrow-minded technocrat. He knows little of history and nothing of philosophy.
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