Althouse: "They were drinking, eating and laughing when this is pretty much a gravesite."

२१ मे, २०१४

"They were drinking, eating and laughing when this is pretty much a gravesite."

"I don’t think alcohol should be allowed in there. It’s a sacred ground and they desecrated it."

४० टिप्पण्या:

Alex म्हणाले...: Oh get over it.; २१/५/१४, ११:४६ AM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: How Victorian of those partiers.; २१/५/१४, ११:४७ AM
ron winkleheimer म्हणाले...: I don't think that having a party before the dedication is necessarily disrespectful. A good friend of mine died recently and his widow held a celebration of his life after the graveside service.

He was an avid hiker so she brought one of his hiking staffs and it was passed around and you told stories about him when you held it.

There was alcohol and food there as well, including boiled peanuts, one of his favorites.

And Irish wakes are not considered disrespectful.

However, in this case, some people are going to consider it disrespectful. And since this is a national monument, care should be taken to not offend sensibilities unnecessarily. So in this case I think it was an error to have a "festive" affair.; २१/५/१४, ११:४७ AM
RMc म्हणाले...: Museums have to attract visitors to survive.; २१/५/१४, ११:५६ AM
SteveR म्हणाले...: I tend to agree, they can have a "VIP" party anywhere and often do. Its almost like they wanted to mark the territory. Building the museum, in this instance should not have been a reason to get together and "pat each other on the back".; २१/५/१४, १२:०३ PM
readering म्हणाले...: I guess it was catered by an outfit specializing in Irish wakes.; २१/५/१४, १२:०३ PM
YoungHegelian म्हणाले...: How much you wanna bet that in the future the Museum management allows the museum to be used for catered affairs, such as business conferences & what not? They don't want to leave that money on the table.

In retrospect, it seems that the Museum may just be a bad idea all around. It's a big on-going expense, and it's going to be difficult to bring in that sort of money without appearing so crass as to dance on the graves of the hallowed dead. I think NYC should have stuck with a large outdoor memorial & left it at that.; २१/५/१४, १२:०९ PM
J Lee म्हणाले...: The $4 billion subway station entrance being built next to the Museum is designed to also house a retail mall, but be lavish-looking enough to hold future high-dollar receptions and special events (to the point that the walls and floors of the downstairs platforms are made of white marble).

The politicians rebuilding the World Trade Center site always saw it as not just a memorial and restoring office space, but as some sort of downtown entertainment and cultural destination point. You can kind of see a party being held after hours at a shopping mall (the world's most expensive shopping mall, BTW), but doing it at the 9/11 Museum just reeks of self-centered/self-congratulatory obtuseness.; २१/५/१४, १२:११ PM
David म्हणाले...: I've laughed at many a cemetery. In fact getting to laughter is one of the goals.

On the other hand, I've never organized a self promoting party at a cemetery.

I wonder if they served drinks when Lincoln spoke at Gettysburg?

I bet they did.; २१/५/१४, १२:११ PM
great Unknown म्हणाले...: None of the type of people they associate with was hurt, so what's the big deal. Just because they have to provide bread and circuses for the masses doesn't mean they should restrain their pleasures when the plebes aren't around.

And afterwards, they hopped on their private jets to spread the word on global warming...; २१/५/१४, १२:१६ PM
rhhardin म्हणाले...: The whole thing is a soap opera.; २१/५/१४, १२:१८ PM
rhhardin म्हणाले...: Graveyards are good places to train dogs to track

Large grass areas, lots of landmarks, little foot traffic.

Soon the attendants notice you and set in motion rulemaking to prohibit the practice (a dog might push over a fragile old person, a safety matter).; २१/५/१४, १२:२० PM
Jolan.False म्हणाले...: I think this is related to another issue you explore on this blog: Why commemorate the dates of people's deaths, instead of their births? Likewise: Why commemorate (celebrate? sanctify? immortalize?) the site of these deaths? We can't create museums at the birthplaces of the 2753 dead, excluding the murderers (although what a beautiful art installation if we could!). So we do this instead. But why this? What do we take ourselves to be doing when we do this?

In any event, my brothers and I did shots of whiskey, with our mom and dad, at the funerals of each of our grandparents. I do think that plenty of the deceased are very happy with people drinking on the occasion of their deaths.; २१/५/१४, १२:२४ PM
Dr Weevil म्हणाले...: The argument from propriety cuts both ways. The people who made it "pretty much a [mass] gravesite" didn't think alcohol should be consumed there, either, so doing so seems quite fitting in one way.

Did they serve any pork dishes with the alcohol? I hope so, though the story doesn't mention it, since that would also have been appropriate.; २१/५/१४, १२:३० PM
Illuninati म्हणाले...: Obviously, alcohol should be banned at Ground Zero out of respect. The remains of the hijackers who were devout Muslims are there. It is sacrilegious and disrespectful to these stalwarts Islam and to all other Muslims who come to this holy ground to serve alcoholic beverages there.; २१/५/१४, १२:३१ PM
David म्हणाले...: From an article by Glen LaFantaise "Lincoln and the Gettysburg Awakening." (Journal of the Abraham Lincoln Association, Winter 1995)

On the night before the dedication of the cemetery, the crowd took over the town and turned it into something resembling a fairgrounds. Along the streets, torches lit the way for the surging mass of people who jammed the avenues and the taverns, the hotels, and the boardinghouses. The noise in the street was almost deafening. Bands played, people sang, and rowdies shouted.[8] There was an odd festive air, an air for wild rovers, in Gettysburg that night—not the kind of atmosphere one would associate with the solemn occasion of a cemetery dedication. Men were drinking, and some men were getting drunk. Even John Hay and John Nicolay, Lincoln's private secretaries, imbibed a few glasses of whiskey and sang a few songs. Nicolay, said Hay in his diary, "sung his little song of the 'Three Thieves,' and then we sung 'John Brown.' " [9]; २१/५/१४, १२:३६ PM
Tank म्हणाले...: It's the never ending search to be aggrieved or a victim.

==============================

Dear Mayor Mike Bloomberg and Condé Nast honchos, please join us for an evening of standing around in a somber and respectful manner on the eve before the opening of the Museum. No food, drink or laughter will be served.; २१/५/१४, १२:३७ PM
David म्हणाले...: After the Civil War, elaborate cemeteries became common. They were purposely designed to be public parks, where people could stroll, picnic and play. Historians call it The American Cemetery Movement.

Alcohol was involved.; २१/५/१४, १२:३९ PM
Ignorance is Bliss म्हणाले...: The people who perpetrated 9/11 would, given the power, forbid you to drink alcohol.

I say they should serve alcohol there all the time. And bacon. And scantily clad women.; २१/५/१४, १२:४१ PM
Curious George म्हणाले...: As long as the food did not contain trans-fat, and wasn't too salty, and they provided calorie counts to guests, and the soft drinks not too big, and there were 2 bathrooms for women for every one for men...I'm okay with.; २१/५/१४, १२:५४ PM
MadisonMan म्हणाले...: The politicians rebuilding the World Trade Center site always saw it as not just a memorial and restoring office space, but as some sort of downtown entertainment and cultural destination point.

Aah. Feature Creep.; २१/५/१४, १:०४ PM
Anthony म्हणाले...: I would have been okay with a nice monument somewhere on the site and rebuilding the whole damn thing.; २१/५/१४, १:०४ PM
Sigivald म्हणाले...: What Alex said.

People (many of them trying to protect others) died there.

Think they'd all hate someone celebrating the building and museum opening?

Think they'd want people to be Eternally Sad there?

I wouldn't.

(And as Hegelian said, the museum is either going to have to self-fund by selling things or be a drain on the taxpayer forever.

Sell things.); २१/५/१४, १:०७ PM
Sorun म्हणाले...: I don't mind if you drink at my gravesite, but please no farting as it would likely be in my general direction.; २१/५/१४, १:०९ PM
traditionalguy म्हणाले...: I suppose the Muslim tourists are the ones dancing on the graves.; २१/५/१४, १:०९ PM
Wince म्हणाले...: Well, then only one type of alcohol should be sold there:

Bacon Infused Vodka!; २१/५/१४, १:३५ PM
Blue@9 म्हणाले...: Sheesh, I hope there's copious amounts of alcohol at my funeral, and I hope they pour one out for me. It's about celebrating life, not communing with the dead.; २१/५/१४, २:३३ PM
Joan म्हणाले...: How many alcohol-fueled parties have been hosted at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC? I am not trying to compare 9/11 to the Holocaust, but I think that many people, including me, believe that both museums are places commemorating (not celebrating) tragic events, and as such, they are not appropriate venues for such parties.

Of course I could be wrong about the Holocaust Museum. For all I know, they're hosting parties every night. Somehow I doubt it.; २१/५/१४, ३:११ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Biggest outrage since Jerry Seinfeld and his girlfriend were caught making out during Schindler's List.; २१/५/१४, ३:१३ PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...: I've eaten and drank in museum venues many times, once a business dinner in a Connecticut art museum (the local host had donated to the museum).

It's not like they are selling beers in "Remember 9/11" cups or anything that gross. It was an event to mark the public opening of an important museum. Let's not turn alcohol into the next tobacco-Nazi target just because "some people" (and you know who you are, cough cough Baptists and Muslims) are offended by fermented potables.; २१/५/१४, ३:३४ PM
Mike (MJB Wolf) म्हणाले...: You can buy a "Never Again" shot glass at the Holocaust Museum. Or Cafe Press. One of the two.; २१/५/१४, ३:४४ PM
The Godfather म्हणाले...: The only reason for a 9/11 museum is so we NEVER FORGET. Same for a Holocaust Museum.

The reason for booze is to forget. I wonder (I really do wonder, because I don't know) whether they have cocktail parties at the Holocaust Museum in DC, or at Auschwitz.; २१/५/१४, ३:५४ PM
Lydia म्हणाले...: David said...I wonder if they served drinks when Lincoln spoke at Gettysburg? I bet they did.

I think you'd lose that bet. There was drinking the night before, but the mood was somber at the dedication cerermony for the Gettysburg National Cemetery where Lincoln gave the address.; २१/५/१४, ४:०५ PM
Lydia म्हणाले...: The Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C., knows how to do respect, and has very tight rules of conduct, among them:
--Eating, drinking, and smoking are not permitted.
--Open food and drink containers are not permitted in the building.
--Video/audio-recording is not permitted.
--Cell phone use and photography are not permitted in the exhibitions.; २१/५/१४, ४:२९ PM
Jaq म्हणाले...: I agree. The seats should all be of the finest pigskin, and alcohol should always be available.; २१/५/१४, ४:२९ PM
Chris म्हणाले...: Elitists just don't get it. Would you have a cocktail party celebrating the opening of a holocost museum? You've got to be pretty self-absorbed to not see how this looks - and how it would offend normal peoples' sensibilities.; २१/५/१४, ४:५७ PM
The Godfather म्हणाले...: Thank you @Lydia.; २१/५/१४, ९:३४ PM
love johnson म्हणाले...: Do they have parties at Pearl Harbor? Arlington National Cemetery?; २२/५/१४, ५:३५ AM
Joe म्हणाले...: If we ceased to drink, eat and laugh anywhere someone died and/or was buried, we'd have major problems drinking, eating and/or laughing anywhere.

We have over sentimentalized death. Sometimes, it becomes almost cultish. (Given the rather extreme embalming process, how is it different than the ancient Egyptians and mummification?); २२/५/१४, ८:३९ PM
RonF म्हणाले...: I have left strict instructions that when I die only good Irish whiskey is to be served at my wake - no cheap booze! if someone wants to tell jokes about me and laugh it up and toast me over my grave I say go for it.; २३/५/१४, १२:०१ AM