The results of Instapundit's straw poll.
From the comments on yesterday's post at Instapundit, I noticed the things people said about (my governor) Scott Walker:
1. "I cast my vote for Scott Walker because he is the only one of the top three candidates who has an actual track record of executive success. We have lots of people who can give good speeches, but which other candidate has pretty much single handedly turned around a deep blue state?"
2. "I live in WI and hope Walker is governor here forever. But I would never take him seriously as a presidential candidate and no one else will either, if he runs."
3. "I agree. I consider Scott Walker the greatest public servant our state has had in my lifetime. But don't promote him to his level of incompetence."
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230 comments:
1 – 200 of 230 Newer› Newest»If Obama can limp along as president with no executive experience at all or even a political philosophy that has much relevance to the real world (witness the worldwide disappointment with him) then I'm sure Scott Walker could handle the job very well.
why not? being promoted far above the level of his inompetence seems to be working out just fine for the current guy
If you think Obama is the smartest guy in the room and I know some of you do,
"A mind becomes a detriment when it acquires more intelligence than its integrity can handle." -Cullen Hightower.
"I would never take him seriously as a presidential candidate and no one else will either, if he runs."
Seriously. And I don't know what everybody's all concerned about executive experience and political philosophy for anyway - most of these guys suck and their principles have driven the Republican party into the dumpster - while Obama "can limp along as president" and try to bring healthcare to the disadvantaged, etc. (not much "relevance to the real world" there).
"The worldwide disappointment with him" is almost a badge of honor:
Screw you, World, we rollin' THIS way,...
Walker has extensive, criminal executive experience.
"Walker has extensive, criminal executive experience."
-- And Mitt Romney never paid his taxes and killed someone with cancer.
Matthew Sablan,
"And Mitt Romney never paid his taxes and killed someone with cancer."
Actually, as a quack supplement salesman, yes, he probably has,...
garage: "Walker has extensive, criminal executive experience."
LOL
Ah yes.
All those "crimes" again.
I'm sure garage will get his daily pat on the head from his masters for all his hard work at the Althouse blog.
Possibly a cookie.
I'll take a governor over a senator or representative any day of the week.
I prefer executive experience--sitting at the top of the pyramid and knowing how to most effectively use your people is its own kind of skill that senators often do not have--but I worry that the lack of a degree thing might hurt him. It doesn't bother me personally, but a lot of people put more stock in a college sheepskin than they probably should. They have a culturally received idea that someone's not really a competent, trustworthy adult without it but can't really explain why.
Governor Baldspot Ultrasound?
I am sure his great record helping minorities as County Executive in Milwaukee ... Oh wait.
I am sure his jobs record .... Oh wait.
I am sure someone who has such universal appeal .... Oh wait.
Guy may be personable in small groups but he cannot unite a crowd. You might be able to win Gov by small bore politics , but nationally he is out of his league and has enough skeletons to haunt him.
And who would you support, Crack? I'm genuinely curious.
Just worry about the governor's race garage, you'll be plenty challenged to keep up with that, lots of facts and all.
I think Walker would be a more than competent, but not spectacular, president, just like his performance as governor. And since there is no on the radar for the Democrats that would be anything short of a disaster for the country, I'd vote for him. Right now we have government by and for federal bureaucrats, the country be damned and Walker isn't intimidated by the bureaucracy he was elected to run not serve. He just needs to carry that into the federal jungle.
Has Walker really turned around Wisconsin? He seems like he's done a decent job of getting the state's finances in order but Wisconsin's unemployment is still higher than its twin, Minnesota. Maybe in another 4 years, Wisconsin will be turned around. It takes awhile. Minnesota was run by Republicans while the feckless Dems of Wisconsin were running it into the ground. It took Mitch Daniels 8 years to put Indiana back on track after I all those years of Dem control.
As far as president, while Walker would be better than Obama and Hillary (and Paul, Cruz and the other speech givers) he should probably wait to run. He's still very young and has work to do in Wisconsin.
If I were him, I'd finish up two terms, get the college degree and then run in 2020. He'd be ready then and so would the US.
Americans need to understand governing is making decisions on costs and benefits and not about grand schemes to demonstrate "who we are" via expensive but unproductive legislation. That's exactly what Walker demonstrated in Wisconsin.
A Walker presidency would be good for America.
Has Walker really turned around Wisconsin?
IANAWR, but from what I have seen, he's at least turned around the public sector, which is where a governor wields the most influence.
Of course, commenters like garage will tell us that he's ruined the private sector by not laundering more money through 5th grade teachers' health insurance into Democratic campaign coffers and has therefore prevented private sector recovery / growth. This makes as much sense as anything that sort of person types, and I haven't heard any serious theories about why Walker has been bad for the Wisconsin economy, or why more public bloat would have immanentized anyone's eschaton besides union bosses.
I'd be plenty happy with a president who could get the federal ship of state turning in a likewise fashion.
Ted Cruz might be eligible to run, but it's a close enough question that he probably shouldn't run.
"He seems like he's done a decent job of getting the state's finances in order,"
That's usually a good first start. Everything else follows after, hopefully. Of the choices given, Walker would have been my choice too, but I'd rather not choose for a good long time yet.
Has Walker really turned around Wisconsin?
Yep, he has turned Wisconsin around and taken it backwards. And he is running against the last governor's record. As far as I can tell that's all he is running on. And running from reporters.
I would be more interested in hearing from Walker supporters in Wisconsin who think he is not ready for the big time. Anyone?
garage mahal said...
Yep, he has turned Wisconsin around and taken it backwards. And he is running against the last governor's record.
The guy he ran against, and the left generally, spent the campaign claiming Walker's plan to balance the budget without increasing taxes was draconian. Now that he's achieved that plan without the results the fearmongers claimed garage wants everyone to believe the prior governor deserves credit.
It must be hard for garage to wake up every day knowing he has come up with a new lie, but it still seems he should be able to do better.
Now that he's achieved that plan
He hasn't achieved that plan. He has raised taxes. And borrowed over 2.1 billion dollars. But what would you know anyway?
garage mahal said...
Now that he's achieved that plan
He hasn't achieved that plan. He has raised taxes. And borrowed over 2.1 billion dollars
It's an odd complaint from someone who supports higher taxes on everything. Is garage's complaint is Walker didn't raise taxes enough? In fact Walker didn't increase taxes. He did eliminate some tax credit loopholes but offset those with tax reductions.
And Walker borrowed to spend on infrastructure projects which garage flogs as being undermaintained in all other circumstances. But now we're to believe it's a problem to borrow for infrastructure spending?
But as usual garage is hoping others don't understand the details so his counterfactual talking points will sway the uninformed reader.
It's an odd complaint from someone who supports higher taxes on everything
Thanks for playing.
"But as usual garage is hoping others don't understand the details so his counterfactual talking points will sway the uninformed reader. "
garage would much prefer Governor Moonbeam with his $63 billion bullet train from "from Madera to just north of Bakersfield in the Central Valley."
Everybody wants to ride the train from Madera to Bakersfield. Actually, you would have to transfer to a bus to get to Bakersfield.
Obama's EPA is about to kill fracking with a listing of the sage grouse and prairie chicken as endangered even though they are found all over the west.
Interior is expected to decide sometime this month whether to list the lesser prairie chicken, which inhabits five western prairie states, as "threatened" under the Endangered Species Act. Meantime, the Bureau of Land Management and U.S. Forest Service are considering land-use amendments to protect the greater sage grouse, which would lay the groundwork for an ESA listing next year.
That's the kind of executive action garage prefers. None of this cost cutting that Walker is into. Kill Jobs ! That's the path to garage's heart.
@ Marshal
But as usual garage is hoping others don't understand the details so his counterfactual talking points will sway the uninformed reader.
That would only work if there were any readers here less informed than he has proven himself to be many times over.
It's not fair to compare Obama to Walker. Obama was never a governor, he was only a state senator. Illinois is a mess, but Obama only deserves a share of the blame for making things worse since he wasn't governor and was one of many state senators and representatives.
After he's president, he should become governor of Illinois. It would be interesting to see how bad he could make things as governor. They're aren't any Republicans to obstruct him, so he could raise taxes as high as he wants, spend more on education, and impose carbon emission restrictions. He could also run Illinois' Medicaid program because it's in a lot of trouble.
@ Michael K
garage would much prefer Governor Moonbeam with his $63 billion bullet train from "from Madera to just north of Bakersfield in the Central Valley."
Other than the high speed rail, he has become more like Walker than most Dems would care to admit:
In California, Governor Moonbeam goes mainstream
The state has a budget surplus just a few years after being $20 billion in the red. Crime is down, investments in infrastructure are up, and voters are giving Brown credit.
...........................
But the Brown in the governor’s mansion today is grounded much more on earth than in outer space — sometimes to his own party’s chagrin. After years of harsh cuts during the recession, Democrats, who control super majorities in the state legislature, were disappointed that Brown’s proposed budget this year called for socking away billions in a rainy-day fund for future emergencies, rather than restoring some of those cuts.
............................
In particular, Democratic Senate President Darrell Steinberg has pushed to create a universal pre-kindergarten program for four-year-olds. Brown’s budget made no mention of the program, which would have cost the state about $1 billion a year to cover 350,000 children.
..............................
California’s current budget windfall has come almost entirely from a rebounding stock market, and from billions in revenue generated by a capital gains tax — the most volatile revenue stream for any state government. Brown, scarred by budget battles both a few years ago and a few decades ago, said the state should save money in the good years to pay for the bad years.
The part I bolded - sounds like something you would hear at a Tea Party rally.
Lyssa said...
And who would you support, Crack? I'm genuinely curious.
Right now, nobody. I saw Ben Carson last night and knew he ain't it.
I think the Right's simply done too much damage, to the brand, to win without major changes. Snarling, without a heart or good reason, don't sell.
Alan M.
The Cal. Dems will piss it away. A few good years on the capital gains tax (especially since there was a big sell off to avoid the federal increase) and they see blue skies again. But there pension plans are still way underfunded, which is a structural problem.
Universal pre-k is called Head Start and it hasn't worked. I'm sure that's because the instructors aren't unionized and trillions haven't been spent on it. Kids without fathers only need more government money to succeed.
MattL said...
Has Walker really turned around Wisconsin?
Doesn't anybody have the nerve to ask blacks that question? Go to Wisconsin's ghettos?
Talk about smoke-and-mirrors. That's how it's done:
Only ask middle class or above whites how THEY'RE doing and let that be your barometer.
Considering those at the bottom sink faster, you're asking the wrong folks,...
mccullough said...
Universal pre-k is called Head Start and it hasn't worked.
It's hard to reconcile the left's support for Head Start if you judge it as an education program. Try evaluating it as daycare instead. Their support suddenly makes sense.
I agree with Crack. The Republicans and their supporters haven't hit bottom yet so they are excited about unaccomplished, marginal candidates.
Four years of Hillary and the Repubs will get their act together. Also, another crisis with the Dems at the helm this time and the citizenry will grow up a bit, too. It took the Dems awhile to get the presidency back after getting their asses handed to them in 1980, 1984, and 1988.
I'd assume - considering the emails people around him send - I'd say "no".
Marshal,
"Try evaluating it as daycare instead. Their support suddenly makes sense."
Poor people need daycare.
Poor people need daycare.
Poor people need a lot of things. Should I pay for their phones? Food? Daycare? Car? Gas? Bus fares? Medical care?
MadisonMan said... Poor people need daycare.
So they should group themselves together with whichever one is best suited watching the others' kids in exchange for part of the income the others are then able to earn.
"He seems like he's done a decent job of getting the state's finances in order,"
He has also proven that he has the ability and the political courage of his convictions by standing up to the public sector unions and winning.
Marshal, I didn't say that, I was quoting Crack.
Please be accurate in your attributions.
MadisonMan said...
Poor people need daycare.
Poor people need a lot of things. Should I pay for their phones? Food? Daycare? Car? Gas? Bus fares? Medical care?
No, I'm a reparations man - have the government give them what they're owed, and let them make their own decisions about what that may be used for.
They know better.
Crack said: I think the Right's simply done too much damage, to the brand, to win without major changes. Snarling, without a heart or good reason, don't sell.
Then, what's the point of going on about it, if there's no hope?
@ Crack:
Poor people need daycare
And they get it, man do they get it. (at least in Wisconsin).
Cashing In On Kids
Child-care scams rake in thousands
Child care loopholes lead to easy money
Millions down the drain: State unable to collect overpayments to providers in child-care subsidy program
Crime family reaps child-care cash
Government blind to child-care fraud: Officials at all levels pass the blame, share the blame
After this series:
Child-care fraud crackdown saves $45 million: Stepped-up enforcement followed Journal Sentinel series
At least some people got their reparations.
"So they should group themselves together with whichever one is best suited watching the others' kids in exchange for part of the income the others are then able to earn."
This is how a pencil is made.
It's complicated, but you just simplified something commonly referred to as a free market.
Imagine if people could organize themselves like that without having to get a third party, the government, involved?
Nah, that's too easy.
I'm surprised Cruz got 20%.
I'll be shocked if the GOP nominates Paul, but very pleasantly so.
It'd mean I wouldn't have to hold my nose to vote against Whoever The Democrats Run - which is what's going to happen in any plausible outcome anyway.
(Well, okay. It's equally plausible I'd vote LP again, if they can run someone as sensible as Johnson.
But I won't hold my breath on them not being loonies twice in a row.)
No, I'm a reparations man
The old My ancestors were wronged, I'm owed money scam.
Perhaps they should also collect from the descendants of slave traders in Africa. All that untapped money!
Mad Man said: Poor people need a lot of things. Should I pay for their phones? Food? Daycare? Car? Gas? Bus fares? Medical care?
Crack replied: No, I'm a reparations man - have the government give them what they're owed, and let them make their own decisions about what that may be used for.
Wait, are we talking about all poor people, or just those that have family history of negative treatment? I'm confused about how the majority of poor people in this country could be said to be "owed."
Lyssa said...
Crack said: I think the Right's simply done too much damage, to the brand, to win without major changes. Snarling, without a heart or good reason, don't sell.
Then, what's the point of going on about it, if there's no hope?
Because, despite what everyone thinks, I still give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Rand Paul IS making some of the right noises now, so there's hope, though it's too late to help with the coming election.
He should've done his don't stand so close to me routine, with Ted Cruz, a long time ago,..
@ Marshal:
So they should group themselves together with whichever one is best suited watching the others' kids in exchange for part of the income the others are then able to earn.
That was the heart of the Milwaukee subsidized day care scandal - these people were taking care of each other's kids - Sister A would open a day care and take care of Sister B's kids, while Sister B was running her own day care taking care of Sister C's kids, while Sister C was taking care of Sister A's kids. Now add more siblings & generations, and you have a $45 Million fraud going.
alan markus said...
@ Crack:
Poor people need daycare
And they get it, man do they get it. (at least in Wisconsin).
At least some people got their reparations.
You guys are hilarious - and cheeeeeeeap! Slavery is estimated to have made blacks earn $100 trillion for this country and you think free diapers is going to make up for it.
Really, the white outlook on what this country's done is galling,...
Crack, I think Lyssa asks you a good question: What about poor white people? What are they owed?
Daycare? Food? Gas? Housing?
eric said...
"So they should group themselves together with whichever one is best suited watching the others' kids in exchange for part of the income the others are then able to earn."
All you guys know, when it comes to blacks, is cut corners, make do, suffer - it's no wonder white children think blacks don't feel pain:
They're your kids.
If you guys would try to understand the legacy of slavery, more of America would make sense to you,..
MadisonMan,
"Perhaps they should also collect from the descendants of slave traders in Africa. All that untapped money!"
Were they the writers of "All Men Are Created Equal" or are we?
Do I live here or there?
Did they do the raping, the mutilating, the exploiting, and the mind-blowingly bizarre, or was that us?
Did they write the unjust laws, specifically for blacks, or was that us?
Did they pass Dred Scott?
Considering it's 400 years of this stuff, I could be listing this shit for a while - and none of it has to do with Africa.
We're Americans.
Crack,
$100 trillion sounds high. Also, the Civil War ruined a lot of the wealth and infrastructure of the slave states.
Personally, I'd be all for giving each black person in the US $100,000 a year for 10 years, tax free, in exchange for getting rid of all social welfare programs for everyone, starting with social security and Medicare.
Crack, what are poor white people owed?
Personally, I'd be all for giving each black person in the US $100,000 a year for 10 years, tax free, in exchange for getting rid of all social welfare programs for everyone, starting with social security and Medicare.
In 11 years it would have to be reinstituted.
Poor white people aren't owed anything. After reparations, poor black people won't be owed anything either.
MadisonMan said...
Crack, I think Lyssa asks you a good question: What about poor white people? What are they owed?
Daycare? Food? Gas? Housing?
People who haven't had anything done to them are owed nothing beyond what a normal society would and should do for it's people. And, even there, the US doesn't do enough.
Our whole attitude - about work, the poor, everything - is totally screwed up.
Look at all the kids, now, going into massive debt to earn a college degree in hopes of making money later. It's bullshit. We should've given them an education, for free, and had them pay some of their massive earnings to the treasury.
That's how you care for people. Not by sitting above them, and pointing, and laughing at a predicament no one should be forced to endure.
...or was that us?
I don't recall being involved in any of that stuff.
But I suppose I'm probably just repressing my racist memory.
mccullough said...
Crack,
$100 trillion sounds high.
Actually, I think it's conservative.
Also, the Civil War ruined a lot of the wealth and infrastructure of the slave states.
So - most of their wealth was the slaves.
Personally, I'd be all for giving each black person in the US $100,000 a year for 10 years, tax free, in exchange for getting rid of all social welfare programs for everyone, starting with social security and Medicare.
I'm positive blacks would take that deal. And be patriotic about it - not all manipulative and shit. It's the unwillingness to be honest that makes people get squirrelly.
Slavery is estimated to have made blacks earn $100 trillion for this country
Crack's original estimate was "eleventy zillion", but somebody pointed out that wasn't a real number.
MattL said...
...or was that us?
I don't recall being involved in any of that stuff.
But I suppose I'm probably just repressing my racist memory.
So if someone leaves a steaming pot of shit on the carpet, and leaves the house, you're just going to sit there, letting it stink up the joint, because you didn't put it there?
Smart man,...
mccullough said...
After reparations, poor black people won't be owed anything either.
It's good to see people keeping a sense of humor. Might be too deadpan though, some people might think this is serious.
and none of it has to do with Africa.
Selling people into slavery has nothing to do with slavery?
This is what happens when racists try to justify themselves: they end up saying all kinds of stupid shit.
Crack, you always say that you're a Republican. May I ask why you consider yourself one? That is, what beliefs are entailed in Republicanism, as you define it, that appeal to you?
So if someone leaves a steaming pot of shit on the carpet, and leaves the house, you're just going to sit there, letting it stink up the joint, because you didn't put it there?
That shit got cleaned up a long time ago. I know of at least one ancestor of mine who fought in the Civil War and helped take it out and get the place cleaned up.
I don't see why I should have to give you a sponge bath when you go dig it up and roll around in it, though.
Marshal said...
and none of it has to do with Africa.
Selling people into slavery has nothing to do with slavery?
This is what happens when racists try to justify themselves: they end up saying all kinds of stupid shit.
I've made this point before - along with you guys need to understand this history - but slavery in general wasn't the "peculiar institution" America practiced.
I mean, jesus, if it was peculiar by even the standards of the day, you KNOW it had to be weird,..
Lyssa said...
Crack, you always say that you're a Republican. May I ask why you consider yourself one? That is, what beliefs are entailed in Republicanism, as you define it, that appeal to you?
You can start with freeing the slaves,...
Yup, voter caging and supression will win big nationally.
MattL,
That shit got cleaned up a long time ago.
And a white guy determines that? Riiiight.
"I know of at least one ancestor of mine who fought in the Civil War and helped take it out and get the place cleaned up."
Good for him. An American who did the right thing. What does that have to do with the injustice that happened to blacks? You say your ancestor made it stop - great. But where's justice?
If I get stopped from committing a crime, does that mean the person I victimized is owed nothing from me?
"I don't see why I should have to give you a sponge bath when you go dig it up and roll around in it, though."
Because, such as a comment like that, you're such an arrogant white man you - and most of the rest of you through history - can't help but insult and abuse your fellow Americans without being forcibly stopped. That's why.
Nobody can call this a country when whites live off the wealth of the crime and are assholes about it, too.
Back in the late 80s, the government passed a law to pay each interned Japanese American $20,000. That would be about $40,000 today.
Not sure if descendants of slaves could get that much, but $40,000 might be workable.
MattL said...
I know of at least one ancestor of mine who fought in the Civil War and helped take it out and get the place cleaned up..
350k or so whites died to end slavery in America. I wonder why that payment doesn't show on Crack's race-ledger? We already see he claims there's some unique property of white skin which tranfers debts amongst those who share it. But apparently it has a second property which negates payment.
It's quite confusing to non-racists.
Looks like the Ronulans have switched over?
mccullough said...
Back in the late 80s, the government passed a law to pay each interned Japanese American $20,000. That would be about $40,000 today.
Not sure if descendants of slaves could get that much, but $40,000 might be workable.
You not only would be laughed at, but cursed for ever suggesting it.
The war lasted a few years. Slavery was 250+ years.
Even the Holocaust - which wasn't as bad - was only for 12 years.
And then came 100+ years of Jim Crow.
And you want to compare it to some folks put in a camp?
Did America cut off their penises in public and set them on fire?
Really, you're spouting crazy talk now,...
So far as I can tell, Crack is referring to Harper's Magazine's claim that descendants of slaves are owed for 222,505,049 hours of unpaid labor from 1619 through 1865, plus 6% interest compounded across centuries. So $100 trillion isn't what the US gained -- it is what Harper's thinks the descendants of slaves are owed.
222,505,049 hours of farm worker labor would cost around $1.6 billion today. To put it another way -- today's illegal immigrants do more work every six months than slaves did across all 236 years of North American slavery. Anyone think the US economy gets $200 trillion a year from illegals? :)
slavery in general wasn't the "peculiar institution" America practiced.
American slaves were sold into general slavery and not American slavery?
More stupid shit.
That shit [slavery] got cleaned up a long time ago.
And a white guy determines that? Riiiight.
Delusional troll is delusional?
If I get stopped from committing a crime, does that mean the person I victimized is owed nothing from me?
If you write unintelligibly on a blog, does that make you a better troll?
Because, such as a comment like that, you're such an arrogant white man you - and most of the rest of you through history - can't help but insult and abuse your fellow Americans without being forcibly stopped.
Heh. It's funny because you're projecting.
Actually, your crap on the carpet metaphor was a good one, since the current crap is a racist troll, and I have been doing something about it. I wrote a user script to hide your comments here. Sadly, I still get drawn in by the emails...
Marshal said...
MattL said...
I know of at least one ancestor of mine who fought in the Civil War and helped take it out and get the place cleaned up..
350k or so whites died to end slavery in America. I wonder why that payment doesn't show on Crack's race-ledger?
Because there's no debt - they volunteered to fight a war.
Who owes them and for what?
Marshal said...
slavery in general wasn't the "peculiar institution" America practiced.
American slaves were sold into general slavery and not American slavery?
More stupid shit.
That's brilliant:
You don't understand something and that makes me stupid.
See how racism works?
I'll say it again:
I want my (slightly more than) one square mile of the continental US landmass.
3.1 million square miles
2.9 million Native Americans
The Crack Emcee said...
Because there's no debt
Right, because debts only transfer amongst whites. Got it.
volunteered to fight a war.
Read some fucking history.
Crack,
I wasn't comparing slaves to Japanese interned. I was suggesting what might be the amount that might be politically plausible to pay out.
I think comparing the plight of blacks in the US since 1965 is comparable to Japanese Americans during WW2.
The Crack Emcee said...
See how racism works?
Every time you post.
See how racism works?
Yes, this thread is an excellent example:
Race baiter attempts shake down using accusations of racism.
I guess you're probably bitter that Jackson's and Sharpton's antics did so much to expose this tactic for what it is.
mccullough said...
Crack,
I wasn't comparing slaves to Japanese interned. I was suggesting what might be the amount that might be politically plausible to pay out.
I think comparing the plight of blacks in the US since 1965 is comparable to Japanese Americans during WW2.
But, again, the length of time is different. Pure racism, as I know it, didn't really stop until the 90s. I mean, you've still had blacks being dragged behind pick-up trucks that far in.
As a woman I want to know what I'm owed on behalf of my women ancestors who provided all that unpaid labor of cookin' and cleanin' and baby-havin'. In fact they in many cases literally "labored" to death when they died in childbirth. They were legally the property of their husbands, they could not own property or businesses...pay up! There's a shitpile on the rug!
IHMMP,
You get a fish and a bicycle.
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
As a woman I want to know what I'm owed on behalf of my women ancestors who provided all that unpaid labor of cookin' and cleanin' and baby-havin'. In fact they in many cases literally "labored" to death when they died in childbirth. They were legally the property of their husbands, they could not own property or businesses...pay up! There's a shitpile on the rug!
Bull - you can't even find your pants
The Crack Emcee said...
If you guys would try to understand the legacy of slavery, more of America would make sense to you,..
You guys are hilarious - and cheeeeeeeap! Slavery is estimated to have made blacks earn $100 trillion for this country and you think free diapers is going to make up for it.
Did they do the raping, the mutilating, the exploiting, and the mind-blowingly bizarre, or was that us?
People who haven't had anything done to them are owed nothing beyond what a normal society would and should do for it's people. And, even there, the US doesn't do enough.
I'm positive blacks would take that deal. And be patriotic about it - not all manipulative and shit. It's the unwillingness to be honest that makes people get squirrelly.
Good for him. An American who did the right thing. What does that have to do with the injustice that happened to blacks? You say your ancestor made it stop - great. But where's justice?
Nobody can call this a country when whites live off the wealth of the crime and are assholes about it, too.
Even the Holocaust - which wasn't as bad - was only for 12 years.
It is garbage like this that makes me long for the days when Althouse turned off comments. I mean this is some serious, grade A level racist, crazy @ss sh@t here! I am not sure which is more worrying, that Crack is serious or that Crack is kidding! If a white person said half of this crap, he would be ostracized for the anti-social misfit that he was but here is Crack spouting this trash like he was sitting down to tea with his church group.
For the record, Crack, I did not own slaves. My parents did not own slaves. No one in my family tree owned slaves. I was born around the time of the civil rights act and I believe (not sure) that you were born after it was passed.
Crap happens. Life is not fair. You could get hit by a bus crossing the street tomorrow. To sit around and piss and moan about crap that happened generations ago is no life. Were blacks wronged in America, yes. This country has also done more to make up for it than any other country has or would. There is no “man” keeping you down and I know you will say that I don’t know that, I am not black. You are right, I am not and I have not lived your life. I have only lived my own. I do know a lot of black people though as well as other people of color. Some are friends. Some are co-workers. Some are people I like. Some are people I don’t. You say you are a Republican but I can not point to anything you have written that indicates you are. You write like a spoiled, entitled, over credentialed, under educated child. Not like any Republicans that I know.
Life is not fair Crack. Life is not fair. Crack, life is not fair.
Being an adult is doing the best you can with what you have. Don’t have a job? Then get a job. Don’t have an education? Then get an education. Today, in America you have the best chance to make it than just about anywhere else in the world! Not happy? Then change it. Do something. Don’t sit around on the computer b@tching and moaning on blogs about how the evil white man has held you down and owes you and oh yah, all of you all are racists and need constant reminding even though you might not have done anything remotely racist yourselves.
God that is such an old and worn out shtick. Aren’t you just so tired of playing that one tune over and over again? How about learning a new song? There is real and easily available joy in this world and in this life. Just. Be. Happy.
Todd,
I was born around the time of the civil rights act and I believe (not sure) that you were born after it was passed.
Nope.
All you guys are reminding me of, is how hard MLK and the rest had it, and why he's dead.
Life is not fair Martin. Life is not fair. Martin, life is not fair.
Listening to that crap is NOT how blacks have succeeded in this country.
That you don't know that is amazing.
Obama "can limp along as president" and try to bring healthcare to the disadvantaged, etc. (not much "relevance to the real world" there).
The "try" part doesn't equate success. He created a program that will fuck up insurance for all but his cronies and screwed over the poor beyond words.
But, heck, he MEANT well. That is all that matters.
Yet again, all I hear from you is anger and accusations. No answers. Do you have an answers or are you just all b@tch and moan?
The Crack Emcee said...
All you guys are reminding me of, is how hard MLK and the rest had it, and why he's dead.
You are right on this point, MLK and the others DID have it hard. That you piss away what they and that generation (black and white) worked and suffered for is a shame.
It's all in how you frame it. What you call "voter suppression", I call "fair elections". Everyone in America is against "voter suppression" and for "fair elections".
I could get 100% of the population supporting either the Republican or the Democratic platform if I'm the only one allowed to frame the issues. Since we've seen that the framing is not done by a neutral party, arguments based on framing issues (rather than the issues themselves) are invalid for what Americans really want (but may be valid for a while longer in determining who gets elected).
Trust is a currency, and the media on both sides is currently throwing it away.
damikesc said...
Obama "can limp along as president" and try to bring healthcare to the disadvantaged, etc. (not much "relevance to the real world" there).
The "try" part doesn't equate success. He created a program that will fuck up insurance for all but his cronies and screwed over the poor beyond words.
But, heck, he MEANT well. That is all that matters.
I'm hanging on the phone, right now, signing up. At no cost. And I can't be turned down for my back problems.
It's awful.
The "try" part doesn't equate success. He created a program that will fuck up insurance for all but his cronies and screwed over the poor beyond words.
But, heck, he MEANT well. That is all that matters.
What he tried to do is get votes and campaign donations. That it can be framed as 'helping the disadvantaged' is a side benefit. As with most programs, some people will be helped and some people will be screwed. I would have bet that there would be more people helped than screwed in the short run, but it looks like I was overly optimistic...
I feel that helping people is best done on an individual level. Helping people based on Group membership both generates group animosity and wastes aid that could be better directed.
Todd said...
The Crack Emcee said...
All you guys are reminding me of, is how hard MLK and the rest had it, and why he's dead.
You are right on this point, MLK and the others DID have it hard. That you piss away what they and that generation (black and white) worked and suffered for is a shame.
Like you understand what blacks are doing and have done better than we do.
Just crazy talk.
Civilis,
Helping people based on Group membership both generates group animosity and wastes aid that could be better directed.
Too late - whites did that for 400 years. And now they want to wash their hands of it, and the people it affected, because thinking about it makes whites heads hurt.
That's not a good enough reason for anybody black to turn back,...
The Crack Emcee said...
Like you understand what blacks are doing and have done better than we do.
Says the guy who can't tell the difference between assasination and a discussion.
The fact that wrong things happened in the past is not a reason not to try to do the best job possible in directing our efforts now. We should be directing aid specifically to the people that need it, rather than throwing it around in the names of people long since dead.
Whether it's popular, or wins votes, or the intentions behind it, none of that matters. What matters is that as much help as possible goes to people that need help and as little as possible gets wasted. It matters that the help be as effective as possible.
"White people are trapped in a history they do not understand."
James Baldwin
Civilis said...
The fact that wrong things happened in the past is not a reason not to try to do the best job possible in directing our efforts now.
Another plea to destroy history - not going to happen. That history made us poor, whites rich, and destroyed our families.
All you fools think about is money - this is justice.
And, I should point out, none of you talk about justice, or patriotism, or country, or anything.
If you don't, you'll never have any of them from here on out. Blacks are terribly interested in these topics, and after 12 Years a Slave, nobody's going to stop pushing for them to finally be exposed so whites don't STAY ignorant.
Enjoy.
Marshal said...
The Crack Emcee said...
Like you understand what blacks are doing and have done better than we do.
Says the guy who can't tell the difference between assasination and a discussion.
What was he doing when he was assassinated but trying to have a discussion?
Discussions with whites in America can get you killed.
Michael Dunn taught Jordan Davis that lesson.
The Crack Emcee said...
Todd said...
The Crack Emcee said...
All you guys are reminding me of, is how hard MLK and the rest had it, and why he's dead.
You are right on this point, MLK and the others DID have it hard. That you piss away what they and that generation (black and white) worked and suffered for is a shame.
Like you understand what blacks are doing and have done better than we do.
Just crazy talk.
I never said that I understood "the black experience" so please don't claim that I did. Also, your "Just crazy talk" line is just your version of white noise. It is something you say when you have no valid response.
As I indicated earlier, I was but a child during that time and as such carry no stain for sins committed long ago by those long dead. That you continue to try and blame your current (what?) circumstances on others says more about you than me or anyone else.
What was he doing when he was assassinated but trying to have a discussion?
Leaving his hotel room to have dinner with some friends and supporters.
Pants,
Black women slaves had the double whammy of being owned by white men and having to do the cleaning, the cooking and the birthing of babies often conceived in rape, then to add insult to injury have their children taken away from them and sold down river. White women were indeed chattel, but black women had it worse yet. They had no slave women to wet nurse their children, no mammy to raise their children, no one to clean their shacks and cook their meals.
The Crack Emcee said...
What was he doing when he was assassinated but trying to have a discussion?
Event 1: Discussion -> Assasination
Event 2: Discussion -> No assasination.
Crack doesn't believe there's a difference between these events. That's what racism does: you're so fired up you can't think straight.
Pants, and don't forget the laundry! Slave women had no slave to boil the sheets and iron their dresses. Slave women slaved away until they died, no one to nurse them in their final hours most likely, unlike white slave owning women. White women pioneers that didn't own slaves probably got worked to death also, at least they could keep their children and weren't raped by the Master. Well maybe they were, the Master being their husbands.
Todd,
"As I indicated earlier, I was but a child during that time and as such carry no stain for sins committed long ago by those long dead."
But you do have a responsibility to this nation, to see that it's fair, does the right thing, and won't leave problems for the next generation.
" That you continue to try and blame your current (what?) circumstances on others says more about you than me or anyone else."
Not really. There's a too-long history of white resistance to truth.
Reparations:
1) one-way ticket back to Africa
2) 40 acres in Nigeria
3) 1 mule
I'm game for that. Where do I send my check?
Revenant said...
What was he doing when he was assassinated but trying to have a discussion?
Leaving his hotel room to have dinner with some friends and supporters.
And why was he there? He came to that state for a reason.
Crack: "Listening to that crap is NOT how blacks have succeeded in this country."
Dr Ben Carson knows precisely what it takes to succeed.
And he did it.
In glorious fashion.
And now all of cracks brand new bestest leftist white buddies are calling him every racist name in the book.
Do you think Crack cares?
Not. One. Bit.
How do I know?
Because in all his "there are racists all around me!!" mental meanderings he has not once addressed the treatment black conservatives get from white liberals.
And he won't.
What a surprise. Not.
MadisonMa'am said...
Pants, and don't forget the laundry! Slave women had no slave to boil the sheets and iron their dresses. Slave women slaved away until they died, no one to nurse them in their final hours most likely, unlike white slave owning women. White women pioneers that didn't own slaves probably got worked to death also, at least they could keep their children and weren't raped by the Master. Well maybe they were, the Master being their husbands.
Inga - as a nurse, you'll love this. Prepare yourself first. It's pretty harsh.
Inga - as a nurse, you'll love this. Prepare yourself first. It's pretty harsh.
Drago,
"Dr Ben Carson knows precisely what it takes to succeed."
Yeah - right. Blacks are already calling him "The Poison Pill".
Drago said...
Crack: "Listening to that crap is NOT how blacks have succeeded in this country."
Dr Ben Carson knows precisely what it takes to succeed.
And he did it.
In glorious fashion.
And now all of cracks brand new bestest leftist white buddies are calling him every racist name in the book.
Do you think Crack cares?
Not. One. Bit.
Nope - he's an Uncle Tom and everybody who understands the phenomena knows it.
You want him? You can have him.
And why was he there? He came to that state for a reason.
Humor is not Crack's strong suit, it would appear.
Justice is just the flip side of revenge; they're indistinguishable from outside. And the people who deserve to be brought to justice (and there are many) are dead, and so either beyond justice, or receiving perfect justice. Expecting a politician to guarantee you justice (or revenge) is asking to get betrayed.
History is great. I love history. That doesn't excuse ignoring that people need help in the now. I'm worried about how to help people now. It also doesn't excuse the willful blindness to reality: most of America reacts the same to 'Stand your ground' cases regardless of the race of the shooter and the race of the victim.
Crack: "You want him? You can have him."
Sorry massa crack, he's not yours to give away.
Will I take an accomplished neurosurgeon.
Uh, yeah.
Of course, he's worth nothing to crack....unless crack had a young loved one who needed the best pediatric neurosurgeon in the country.
But hey, if your loved one is in trouble, call on Al Sharpton instead. He's down for the struggle.
Crack: "Nope - he's an Uncle Tom and everybody who understands the phenomena knows it."
Laughable.
Carson is where he is due to his extraordinary skill, determination and perfectionist mentality.
You know, the opposite of crack.
Which is why crack would discard him.
No one owns Dr Ben Carson.
But the left completely owns crack.
Crack.
The republican.
Hilarious.
There ain't no affirmative action when you've got your hands in the brains of a young person whose life hangs in the balance.
When Carson and doctors and professionals like him are performing such work, they are so far beyond the cracks of the world that crack can't even imagine it.
Carson is his own man.
He's off the liberal plantation.
Crack no likey.
Civilis said...
Justice is just the flip side of revenge;
Bullshit - justice is the flip side of injustice.
Drago,
Hey, if your loved one is in trouble, call on Al Sharpton instead. He's down for the struggle.
You're damned right - he'll show up, too.
Drago,
"He's off the liberal plantation."
It is so ignorant to try and convince blacks to join you by saying looking out for their own interests puts them on a "plantation".
No one will join you.
Crack: "You're damned right - he'll show up, too."
Al Sharpton: Neurosurgeon.
LOL
Noted.
He's no surgeon, and you are clearly no rocket scientist.
For the good of their party and for the good of the republic, Republicans must genuinely reach out to and successfully attract black voters.
The GOP is not off to a good start. In South Carolina, where blacks make up 28 percent of voters, so few blacks voted in the 2012 GOP primary that it was statistically impossible to find among them a preference for any of the party’s candidates.
Rand Paul and other Republicans have made awkward attempts at appealing to African-Americans — so awkward it sometimes seems their intended audience is not the people sitting in front of them. Speeches by white Republicans at historically black schools and in Detroit have had the whiff of slightly smarmy non sequiturs. "Dontcha know? Republicans were abolitionists 150 years ago."
There are some obvious alterations the GOP and the conservative movement must make to attract black voters. Any project that looks like anti-black voter suppression should be first on the list to go. The Randian rhetoric of "takers" must go too. It not only alienates parts of the existing GOP base, but is pungent with contempt for those, like African-Americans, who view themselves as unfairly held outside and below the sphere of social concern.
Perhaps most difficult of all, conservatives need to bring their well-paid yappers to heel, lest they find another case like Trayvon Martin's death and use it to enflame a totally spurious debate about "the real racists." Such arguments make conservatives look like self-involved idiots and aggrieved monsters.
crack the helpless: "No one will join you."
I'm not asking anyone to join me.
The people who are the sort of people who help themselves do what's in their own best interests.
You can reason them into doing something against their own interests.
Cattle, on the other hand, will go pretty much where ever you direct them.
Food for thought.
If you were a thinker.
I'm listening to Tim Wise and he's pointing out how, during the 80s, the white lie was all the blacks were tasking white jobs.
Now the lie is we're all living off welfare.
No consistency,...
Drago,
Food for thought.
If you were a thinker.
Because Of Racism: Even Average Blacks Live Within A Sphere Of Complexity That Can Make White Brains Hurt
Crack, if I were a brother down for the struggle, I might be thinking about how the hispanics in LA and elsewhere are driving the brothers and sisters out of their neighborhoods.
By force.
Violent force.
Those latino guys are pretty much immune to your BS.
That's your long term problem.
Quite frankly, it's irrelevant whether or not you see it.
It's here. Now.
Deal with it.
Oh yes, crack.
The black mind is so much more complex.
I remember many smart black kids at my minority majority schools.
They usually got their butts kicked by other blacks for "actin' white".
"Complexity"
It probably doesn't mean what you think it means.
Drago wants to hold up a few successful blacks, like Carson, and act like they equal the black experience in America. The millions in poverty? They mean nothing - to him and Ben Carson.
That's as silly as the white libs claiming Obama's presidency would make race go away.
Talk about buying into myths,...
crack: "Drago wants to hold up a few successful blacks, like Carson, and act like they equal the black experience in America."
Hmmmm, actually I was holding up carson as an example that I would like for my children to aspire to.
But then, when you're all about grievances, those kind of thoughts never occur to you.
But then, why would they?
Thinking those kinds of thoughts mean you have to work your ass off to get somewhere.
Drago,
They usually got their butts kicked by other blacks for "actin' white".
Yeah, whites have burnished their "positive" image, to the point blacks love them, haven't they?
Hilarious. If you even ACT like a white person around blacks and they'll kick your ass. That's how cool whites have been.
You're great, Drago.
Crack: "That's as silly as the white libs claiming Obama's presidency would make race go away."
Show me one link where any liberal said obama's presidency "would make race go away"
Never. Happened.
I'm sorry that hearing that black kids beat up other black kids for "actin' white" upsets you so.
You might want to have a conversation with those black kids who beat up other black kids for actin' white and tell them not to beat up black kids who are actin' white.
Another thing, Drago?
Carson's mouthing conservative dogma is "thinking for himself"?
At least blacks have a decent excuse for their thoughts and where it leads them - circumstances dictate some of it.
Carson is going against all the other blacks for you.
I'll be watching, and I want to see what happens to him when he loses.
What kind of white support he'll get then.
Whites are fickle.
Drago said...
I'm sorry that hearing that black kids beat up other black kids for "actin' white" upsets you so.
Doesn't bother me. Why do so many white people put words in my mouth?
I'd think I write enough that wouldn't be necessary,..
Crack: "Carson's mouthing conservative dogma is "thinking for himself"?
Carson knows precisely what it takes to succeed.
He's proven it for decades.
The test of his skill is how many people he has saved.
You can jump up and down all you want to try and drag the man down.
That's what mobs do when they are crazed with their own failure. They want to destroy the one who didn't.
Carson's skill is inarguable.
Period.
He's a genius.
He's an example to what hard work and skill can achieve.
No one can take that away.
Yet I can see you so want to do just that.
Crack, I've read similar accounts, it's as bad as the Jewish holocaust. I want to see the Black Holocaust Museum one day. I'm reading "Behind the scenes, or Thirty Years a Slave" by Elizabeth Keckley. I've just begun it, I think Keckley was the servant ( freed slave) of Mrs. Lincoln, perhaps the one in the gallery who sat next to Mrs. Lincoln during the vote to end slavery, as depicted in the movie. In the movie "Twelve Years a Slave", during the scene in which Patsey was caught by the Master with a sliver of soap and cruelly beaten reminded me of accounts I read when Jews in the camps were caught with contraband. The inhumanity of being punished for the desire to be clean....
Inga: " I want to see the Black Holocaust Museum one day."
Well, there you go. You have a cause.
Start raising money for one. This could become a life passion for you.
Organize a group. Identify a location that would seem appropriate. Get the location reviewed and approved by the appropriate civil rights group.
Get busy.
If you are truly moved and want to see one.
On the other hand, you're on the left.
Just get some judge to order it, raise taxes and then let some union overcharge you 3000% to build it.
In the right circumstance it would be a "shovel ready" project!
Even though those don't exist.
Obama told us so.
MadisonMa'am,
I've been reading about a slave, a woman, who outsmarted Thomas Jefferson and escaped to freedom.
She seemed to taunt him, too. Fun-ny!
Thomas Jefferson was a trip.
He even disgusted George Washington with his bullshit.
Bullshit - justice is the flip side of injustice.
That too. The coin has three sides. They are, however, the same coin seen from different perspectives.
Justice is impossible without an outside frame of reference. What's just from one perspective isn't from another. Take the standard fictional narrative: man A is personally wronged very deeply by man B, perhaps man A lost his family due to man B. Man A wants revenge, tit for tat, so he kills man B's family. From A's perspective, justice has been served; eye for an eye, B suffers exactly as much as A. But we're outside it all. Perhaps B's family's only crime was their relationship to B. From their perspective there can be no justice. And we (as observers) can see things that A cannot. Perhaps the death of A's family was an accident. Perhaps B tried to save them and failed. Despite only seeking justice (revenge), A has ended up perpetuating injustice. And, in narrative, A ends up as a tragic villain.
I apologize to you, Crack, if I'm making this personal. I'm trying to debate, and I'm interested in arguing via facts and logic, however, I can't always separate the personal emotions out from an argument.
I want to see the Black Holocaust Museum one day.
I want to see the Abortion Holocaust Museum someday. Your picture should be prominent.
OMG Another Crack thread !
Bye.
Here's what I don't get about college-ethnic-studies style progressive group identity politics: They postulate there's this secret white privilege that white society uses to keep minorities down. How did Asians escape? How did the Chinese laborers and Japanese internees escape the racism and discrimination? How did they beat whitey at his own game?
Group politics is invidious; this simple characterization is unfair to Asian ethnic groups such as Filipinos and Vietnamese that haven't prospered as well as their group membership would suggest (and individual members of all groups that defy stereotypes).
A theory has been put forth. Evidence has been presented that contradicts the theory. Obviously, the theory needs to be amended, but it never is.
And this isn't a theoretical question anymore: http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/social-affairs/20140308/asians-rally-against-sca-5-call-it-revival-of-affirmative-action
Playing groups against each other breaks down when two of the groups you are playing have to go up against each other (and, eventually, it will happen).
The Black Holocaust: Will America re-examine it's shame? In 2015 a Black History and Culture Museum will open on the Mall in DC. About time.
I've seen the Black Holocaust Museum in Milwaukee. I'm glad to see that there will be a Washington DC museum too that will deal with the black holocaust.
I want to see the Abortion Holocaust Museum someday. Your picture should be prominent.
And then we need to add an Armenian Holocaust museum and a victims of Communism museum and so on and so on. This is why Republicans are right to stay away from group identity politics, and why group identity politics is so destructive to the country.
I can understand Blacks (and American Indians and Armenians and victims of Communism and so forth) wanting special recognition for the horrible suffering their ancestors endured. But apologies that cannot be sincere are meaningless, reparations for indirect harm is a game that only benefits the politically connected and makes the situation worse (see the aftermath of WW1), and justice is impossible. The best we can do is worry about the future, and make sure that the horrors of the past don't happen again.
Civilis,
"I apologize to you, Crack, if I'm making this personal. I'm trying to debate, and I'm interested in arguing via facts and logic, however, I can't always separate the personal emotions out from an argument."
Thank you, but it's alright, I'm as guilty as anyone from time to time.
Civilis,
Here's what I don't get about college-ethnic-studies style progressive group identity politics: They postulate there's this secret white privilege that white society uses to keep minorities down. How did Asians escape? How did the Chinese laborers and Japanese internees escape the racism and discrimination? How did they beat whitey at his own game?
They have countries they came from, with families, etc. Blacks were slaves. None of the support systems. Isolated. Like me here, actually.
The attitude that is displayed daily on these threads is what will be in the minds of minority voters as they wait in line for hours to vote. You folks on the right really must never want another Republican President. So be it.
Civilis,
"The best we can do is worry about the future, and make sure that the horrors of the past don't happen again."
I'm sorry but you're wrong. Whites made it racial. Only a racial solution will work now.
Whites just have to accept it and stop being pissed about it.
This is their legacy, too,...
MadisonMa'am said...
The attitude that is displayed daily on these threads is what will be in the minds of minority voters as they wait in line for hours to vote. You folks on the right really must never want another Republican President. So be it.
True words. It is a perfect distillation of both the problem and why it's happening this way.
I read the Washington Post daily. Washington D.C. city politics is essentially a one party town. The city in the process of running the Democratic primary which will decide the next mayor. I recommend reading the history of local politics in Washington DC. The city politics is dominated by a political machine that selects a candidate and watches as voters line up to vote how the machine decides, even as the machine costs them jobs and ruins their schools. No Republicans involved. It's just an entrenched political class and their cronies that make money off the people the politicians are supposed to serve.
They have countries they came from, with families, etc. Blacks were slaves. None of the support systems. Isolated. Like me here, actually.
Now who needs to read up on their history? The isolated China of Mao wasn't sending money to the US. Many of the south and southwest Asians were sending money home, in the opposite direction.
I guess then we whites need better family support structures if we are to catch up with the Asians.
I want to see the Black Holocaust Museum one day.
The Nazis killed approximately half of all the Jews in the world. Let's resist dumbing down the word "holocaust" until it loses all meaning and becomes just another word for "stuff we don't like".
I'm sorry but you're wrong. Whites made it racial. Only a racial solution will work now.
Whites just have to accept it and stop being pissed about it.
This is their legacy, too,...
It's always been ethnic, as long as there have been ethnicities to distinguish groups. Staying on that path is a recipe for nothing more than endless cycles of revenge under the banner of justice (look at the Balkans or Rwanda).
Civilis said...
They have countries they came from, with families, etc. Blacks were slaves. None of the support systems. Isolated. Like me here, actually.
Now who needs to read up on their history? The isolated China of Mao wasn't sending money to the US. Many of the south and southwest Asians were sending money home, in the opposite direction.
Look at my quote - did I say money was being sent, or that other groups have intact families?
I really dislike when people put words in my mouth.
The Nazis killed approximately half of all the Jews in the world. Let's resist dumbing down the word "holocaust" until it loses all meaning and becomes just another word for "stuff we don't like".
Fun fact: it took Persia 700-800 years to recover the population it had when Ghenghis Khan invaded.
All pain is individual. Someone tortured to death by the Nazis is just as dead as someone worked to death in the fields of the South. And they're just as dead as an Armenian shot by the Turks, or one of Stalin's victims, or someone that died in the Civil War. And since they are dead, there's nothing we can do for any of them, aside from using their memory to prevent things from getting that bad again.
I meant to say:
I really dislike when people put words in my mouth and then call me wrong because of it.
You were wrong to assume more than my words.
Revenant, the word is fitting. Down playing what happened to human beings in either holocaust isn't helpful. Calling what happened in this country a "black holocaust" doesn't detract from the horror of the Jewish holocaust. The article I linked to is from a Jewish publication.
Civilis,
Since they are dead, there's nothing we can do for any of them, aside from using their memory to prevent things from getting that bad again.
That is such an insane thing to say, it boggles the mind.
You really have no feeling for justice, do you?
That's sociopathic, dude.
Look at my quote - did I say money was being sent, or that other groups have intact families?
You said support systems. China was isolated. No contact. No nothing.
And I agree you have a point (if I understand you correctly) that the support systems the Chinese had allowed them to recover from the racism and discrimination they faced much better than the African-Americans that didn't have that at the end of the Civil War. I was just trying not to go there because I don't think you like the implications of that.
Civilis,
"I was just trying not to go there because I don't think you like the implications of that."
I'm not sure what implications you're talking about, but - except black resilience - not much good came out of slavery.
That is such an insane thing to say, it boggles the mind.
You really have no feeling for justice, do you?
That's sociopathic, dude.
It's sociopathic to assume that one can fairly assign justice for all the past wrongs of the world (or any wrongs at all). Since I can't do that, I'm left with working to stopping future wrongs from happening. I'm human enough and emotional enough to know that the world is complex, that bad things happen to good people, that there's no solution that is fair to everyone and makes everyone happy. Pretending to be God would make me a sociopath.
What about the Ukrainian Holocaust? Stalin starved millions of them to death in the 1930s. White on white atrocity
I'm not sure what implications you're talking about, but - except black resilience - not much good came out of slavery.
Nothing good came out of a lot of things. Slavery was one of them. As a libertarian, slavery represents the a fundamental denial of human rights of the highest order. But just because I know it's wrong doesn't mean I know how to fix it. I do know that eye-for-an-eye retribution by making slaves out of the descendants of slaveowners would be just as wrong as the original crime.
Revenant, the word is fitting. Down playing what happened to human beings in either holocaust isn't helpful.
Like I said, you're dumbing it down. Slavery in the United States doesn't even make a top ten list of atrocities committed against Africans. Heck, you could probably fill a top ten list with incidents committed against Africans BY Africans.
You want a Black Holocaust museum? Visit Rwanda.
"What about the Ukrainian Holocaust? Stalin starved millions of them to death in the 1930s. White on white atrocity"
3/11/14, 6:36 PM
Ukraine's problematic relationship to the Holocaust.
Like I said, you're dumbing it down. Slavery in the United States doesn't even make a top ten list of atrocities committed against Africans. Heck, you could probably fill a top ten list with incidents committed against Africans BY Africans.
You want a Black Holocaust museum? Visit Rwanda.
That is kinda underplaying it though. In terms of numbers, there were a lot of slaves in the US, and almost all of them before 1865 died slaves. I think Crack's underplaying the amount of slaves, both African and otherwise, elsewhere in the world, but there were decent numbers in the US.
Rwanda is horrible in the short time in which the violence happened. Slavery is horrible in that it went on for so long. Different types of horribleness, but still horrible none the less.
A lot of Ukrainians don't like Jews because many of those implementing Soviet policies in Ukraine were Jews.
A lot of the commies in the US were Jews, as well, but communism never got a big enough toehold in the US. Its certainly not fair to blame communism on the Jews, but it also wasn't anti-Semitic to execute the Rosenbergs as traitors.
That raises an excellent question: what separates a random person in Cuba or North Korea from a slave? Forced to work for their owner (Castro/Kim), killed if they try to leave, care provided at the mercy of their masters.
Revenant,
You want a Black Holocaust museum? Visit Rwanda.
As though there's a part of Africa whites didn't have a hand in, starting with taking the men to another country to be slaves, draining the continent of future generations.
Please stop talking.
Rwanda is horrible in the short time in which the violence happened. Slavery is horrible in that it went on for so long. Different types of horribleness, but still horrible none the less.
Nobody is disputing that both things were horrible. The thing is, you can turn almost anything into a "holocaust" if you draw out the timeline long enough. For example, right now black Americans murder other black Americans at a rate of around 7000 per year. Multiply that by 250 years and you get 1,750,000 -- presto, we're in the middle of a "Holocaust".
In the case of Rwanda, you have one particular incident in a MUCH bigger problem (factional violence) that has plagued what is now Rwanda for thousands of years. A million people died in the most *recent* massacres -- how many do you think died in the last 250 years of massacres?
Then there's the question of why we're cherry-picking the United States' practice of slavery out of the planet's 5000+ year history of African slavery, the vast majority of which was practiced by Africans on Africans. Even in the transatlantic slave trade of the 17th-19th centuries -- itself only a fraction of total African slavery -- something like 80% of the slaves went to territories other than what is now the United States.
So I'm sorry, but no -- if you want to call the US practice of slavery "a black holocaust", it must be conceded that it was only one of many, and not by any means one of the worse ones.
OK, I am going to troll and hijack this thread to the subject of Walker.
In the age of presidential elections being emcee'd by MTV or Hollywood, Walker needs to get some advice from Joe Biden on hair implants for appearences, and he needs to rush out and get a quick BA in Social Studies for the credential.
After that is taken care of, his policy proposals and the results of his governing Wisconsin may be discussed by those who haven't drifted off to their smartphone texting.
Crack,
You give whites far too much credit for their power. They are not the Greek Gods. Cursing them is understandable. Blaming them for tribalism in African countries is far fetched.
The Incas were murdering and throwing virgins into the volcano before he white man arrived.
Whites, like every race known to this planet, have been cruel.
In the age of presidential elections being emcee'd by MTV or Hollywood, Walker needs to get some advice from Joe Biden on hair implants for appearences, and he needs to rush out and get a quick BA in Social Studies for the credential.
Is ugliness a disability? It's certainly (to some degree) a built-in genetic trait. Should we have ugly-American anti-discrimation laws?
As though there's a part of Africa whites didn't have a hand in
I just assumed that "everything everywhere is whitey's fault" just goes without saying, Crack, but thanks for pointing it out.
starting with taking the men to another country to be slaves, draining the continent of future generations.
While slavery has, of course, been widely practiced in Rwanda for thousands of years, it wasn't part of the European slave trade. Rwanda is a landlocked country that Europeans didn't even make significant contact with until the late 19th century.
Is ugliness a disability?
The election of 1960 was close enough that Nixon's ugly mug might have made the difference.
MadisonMa'am said...
The attitude that is displayed daily on these threads is what will be in the minds of minority voters as they wait in line for hours to vote.
They'll be thinking when they're ready to give up on hatred and tribalism Republicans will welcome them?
Good.
mccullough said...
Crack,
You give whites far too much credit for their power. They are not the Greek Gods. Cursing them is understandable. Blaming them for tribalism in African countries is far fetched.
Why? You take people away, aren't you draining that continent of brainpower? And then there was the multitude of white excisions to get Africa's resources - double-dealing on tribes - that didn't start internal wars?
You've really got to think this through.
Africa was plundered and misery was left in it's wake.
I wouldn't say Scott Walker is ugly. Since the TV era, usually presidents are better looking than the average person. And they are pretty trim. Walker's hair is a bit thin by presidential standards, but other than that he is normal attractive. His personality is probably more of a hindrance since he comes across as dull.
But in a race against Hillary, I don't think his looks would matter. She's overweight and not particularly attractive, though I wouldn't call her ugly. And her personality is pretty drab.
Crack,
What I'm saying is Africa was miserable before, during, and after whites. Tribalism has been endemic in parts of Africa a long time.
BTW - Rand Paul won the Instapundit straw poll.
That means Ted Cruz will be the Republican nominee.
Watch:
Glenn's a great way to measure politics.
mccollough: "The Incas were murdering and throwing virgins into the volcano before he white man arrived."
Crack won't believe you.
He is now fully, FULLY, invested in "white is the root of all evil".
He cannot allow even the sliver of the possibility that there is something to the human condition beyond skin color.
He can't.
His current path is the only one left for him to get paid.
Or so he thinks.
Crack is just about a hop skip and jump from hitting us with afrocentric theories of how whitey stole all the knowledge of Africa and used it to build the white mans empire.
There are, today, this very minute, professors, fully tenured, teaching that very thing.
It's insanity.
Aristotle stole the knowledge from the library at Alexandria (physically impossible), etc.
If Ann ever cared to she could probably wander down the hallowed halls of UW and hear absolute insanity being presented as absolute truths.
Crack is right there with them.
Again, he has to get paid. And this is his best opportunity.
Of that he has convinced himself.
mccullough said...
Crack,
What I'm saying is Africa was miserable before, during, and after whites. Tribalism has been endemic in parts of Africa a long time.
Sure, but now we're back to culture (culture/history - the two totems):
Like Native Americans, African tribes had their own lives and ways of doing things. There were battles but not the genocide we see today. These are all remnants of the madness. Like for black criminals here, whites have introduced a there-is-no-law ethos into the world that, now, we all wish we could put back in the bottle. That's why I've said it's kind of hard to tell them not to be criminals when this very nation is one - and one far worse than anything blacks are doing today.
With some justice, to set the world to right again (remember the bad guys always lived in slanted places on Batman?) there's no reason for anyone to respect life, anywhere, because that's been introduced into cultures where it wasn't before.
We're looking at the twisted left-overs, of what was, after whites finished dining,...
The only reason there wasn't genocide among NAtive American tribes or African tribes or any tribes was because they didn't have the weapons back then to accomplish their goals of annihilating each other.
Drago said...
mccollough: "The Incas were murdering and throwing virgins into the volcano before he white man arrived."
Crack won't believe you.
He is now fully, FULLY, invested in "white is the root of all evil".
Oh, stop it. You exaggerate for effect.
Yearly celebrations/rituals where people were sacrificed were sick, but hardly genocide.
Seriously, you guys, you really lack the mental framework to deal with history and culture as it should be. You make slavery more in the past than it was, deny the effect of terrorism during Jim Crow, and think any group without guns and ships were the equal, in the potential to do damage, as whites who did have them.
None of it adds up,..
mccullough said...
Crack,
What I'm saying is Africa was miserable before, during, and after whites.
BTW - they were only "miserable" by white standards. Africa had civilization long before Europe, so the idea that, because it didn't fit the European ideal, there was something wrong with it, is preposterous.
The white idea of civilization has caused waaaay more problems, to this day, than all the indigenous peoples of the world combined. As Ghandi said of Western "civilization", we'd like to see some for a change.
whites have introduced a there-is-no-law ethos into the world that, now, we all wish we could put back in the bottle.
Tell that to the Mongols. Tell that to the Timurids. Tell that to the Huns. Tell that to the Chinese and the Japanese. Tell that to the Aztecs (whose victims got a meaningless 'justice' when the Spanish did to the Aztecs what the Aztecs had been doing to everyone else). And that's just within the past 2000 years.
Seriously, you guys, you really lack the mental framework to deal with history and culture as it should be.
We have different frameworks, each of which looks at the world from one vantage point, with one lens.
The wikipedia definition of slavery is: Slavery is a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and are forced to work. Slaves can be held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to demand compensation. Are the common people of North Korea slaves of Kim Jong Un? If not, why?
As Ghandi said of Western "civilization", we'd like to see some for a change.
Ghandi wasn't a saint, and was a bit myopic about the flaws in his own culture.
whites have introduced a there-is-no-law ethos into the world that, now, we all wish we could put back in the bottle.
I think the irony is that whites introduced rules into the behavior of nations that, while slightly self-serving (see Washington Naval Treaty for the most obvious example) were the fairest to individuals, in part as a response to the escalation of barbaric behaviors of both themselves and others.
Where is my one square mile?
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