And he even apologized. ("I did not intend to hurt or offend anyone... Words are important. I understand that, and will choose mine with great care going forward.... Behavior like this undermines hard-fought rights that I vigorously support.")
Is that fair?
Baldwin — like many celebrities and assorted other humans — wants esteem from those whose esteem he's decided he values, those in the entertainment industry and among the American cultural elite, and these days, it's easy to see that this means that he ought to support gay rights. But that doesn't tell us how he really feels at a gut level. What pops out when he's angry and looking to express hatred shows us what he hides when he's doing his mundane PR.
Who knows how much hatred against gay people there really is out there and to what extent it's apportioned among people who support gay rights on the one hand and people who oppose gay rights on the other? I don't find it hard to imagine someone who hates a particular type of person nevertheless believing that those people deserve equal rights — because it makes sense philosophically or it fits a political ideology. I also don't find it hard to understand someone feeling no hostility for gay people and still rejecting same-sex marriage and thinking that all non-procreative sexual behavior should be discouraged.
Eagerness to support gay rights may stem from a desire to compensate for strongly felt aversion to gay people. Baldwin's problem is that this compensation cannot stand up to his intense emotionality, and paparazzi who know this have made a game out of provoking him to the point of explosion. It's actually kind of sad. He's a great actor, and since he tends to play villains — wonderfully — he doesn't even need us to think that he's a good person.
But should he have a political talk show on MSNBC? That's for MSNBC to decide, and obviously they have. MSNBC has chosen to be more genteel and respectful toward the cultural elite. It doesn't seem to know how to foster vibrant discourse about politics, and the gambit of putting on the over-passionate Baldwin was always lame, even before he embarrassed them.
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LBJ said a lot of bad things but signed the Civil Rights Act. Which was more important?
I don't care much about what goes on in peoples' heads, and I put little stock in what they say. What matters is what they do.
Our culture is so full of lies that we over-value emotional outbursts and incidents of mispeech in an attempt to get at what people really think. This is a mistake.
Look at what people do to reveal what they really think.
Define "fair"
Gay rights people have become really intolerant of other peoples speech when it crosses them.
Following the SNL Post, This Seems Appropriate (from Wiki):
"Nevertheless, the season 19 Valentine's Day episode hosted by Alec Baldwin with his wife at the time Kim Basinger had a sketch where Baldwin played Mr. Armstrong, a scoutmaster who made overt sexual advances toward Canteen Boy, stirred up much controversy due to its implications of pedophilia and many gay television viewers complained to NBC that they felt that the skit was homophobic. Canteen Boy had clearly understood what was happening or was ill at ease with the attitude, as he runs off into the woods. "
A Certain Consistency.
I Am Compelled to Connect Dots.
Baldwin is getting off easy because of his history of overt liberalism. One could argue he deserves the ultimate leftie punishment- social banishment- but the court of leftie appeals considers your past contributions and weighs them against your crimes and your potential to further the leftie cause in the future.
But that doesn't tell us how he really feels at a gut level. What pops out when he's angry and looking to express hatred shows us what he hides when he's doing his mundane PR
Is it common knowledge that what is said in the heat of anger is a window to true nature? News to me. I always believed those words were only the mind's quick summation of what would be considered most harmful to the recipient.
Scout Master: That’s okay Canteen Boy let’s just, lie here and… look at the stars…. [ Scout Master puts his mouth on Canteen Boy’s cheek and neck ] Do you know um… [ Takes Canteen Boy’s finger and suck it ] do you know how.. how to play… "Truth or Dare"…Canteen Boy?
Canteen Boy: Um, refresh me!
Scout Master: You choose between telling a secret… or doing a Dare…
Canteen Boy: All right: "Dare."
[ Scout Master whispers something inaudible at Canteen Boy’s ear ]
Canteen Boy : [ Looking scared ] You know what mister Armstrong, let’s start off with the Truth!
Scout Master: I’ll tell you a Truth canteen Boy! You know what I hate? Underpants!
[ Scout Masters removes his underpants underneath his sleeping bag ]
Canteen Boy: Gee, I think if you worry about bugs, underpants would be your last line of defense!
Scout Master: [ Throwing his underpants away ] Problem solved!
The difference between Paula Dean and Alec Baldwin is that Paula Dean did it years ago in a southern accent.
If it had been his first or second "mistake" I could see where he wouldn't think it was fair. But this is like the bazzillionth time he has done this. I think we know what he thinks about gay people.
What I want to know if YOU, Professor, think it was fair what happened to Paula Dean?
The differences between how the two are/were treated is remarkable to my mind.
dammit Fitz stole my thunder :-)
Alec Baldwin Would Never Stop at a Chick-fil-A, and That is What is Important.
I remember an indian slur being mentioned in the news once, and couldn't think of any indian slurs.
Hey wampum-nose.
You have to make do.
Gay slurs are the same sort of deal.
The milk cartons in grade school had homo milk printed on top.
Listeners emailing Armstrong and Getty mention whether they're fags or not (friend of Armstrong and Getty, they always claim).
It always meant bassoon to me.
I Couldn't Figure Out the Slur Because they Put an Asterisk over Some of the Letters. This is Not 'Wheel of Fortune', People: I Don't Want to Buy a Cock-Sucking Vowel.
Give Baldwin a pass for just being an ass. He's human. It's part of our condition.
A gay and an indian walk into a bar.
"Nice feathers," said the gay.
He's a flaming asshole.
Everyone knew that.
It's human nature. We all enjoy the guilty pleasure of seeing The High And Mighty make fools of themselves. He is a great actor. I enjoy his work. I also enjoy watching him making an ass of himself and then grovelling for forgiveness.
Alec Baldwin's behavior has been personally offensive on so many subjects, and at so many levels, that the last thing I worry about is being "fair to Alec Baldwin".
At some point after a long course of bad behavior, the world no longer needs to cut an arrogant ass any slack. As I recall, he was going to move to Canada if George Bush won a Presidential election. Alex, your exit visa is waiting and your departure is long overdo.
An "oopsie" in that last post. Alec Baldwin's departure for Canada is long overdue.
Althouse said:
"I also don't find it hard to understand someone feeling no hostility for gay people and still rejecting same-sex marriage and thinking that all non-procreative sexual behavior should be discouraged."
Your point should be obvious, but leftist propaganda can not allow this possibility.
The other two points you make do not necessarily go together. For example, personally I am against changing the meaning of the word marriage to mean something it has never meant. When gay marriage first came up, I thought it was silly. I still do. Perhaps the main reason the left wants to change the meaning of words is so they can crawl into people's heads and change the way they think by deleting the words necessary to think thoughts the left wishes to abolish. The left has used the mimetic process to convince gay people that it is not enough to have a private commitment between themselves, they must force everyone else to consent to their arrangement and to admire it.
As for discouraging all non-procreative sex that is not how the original proposition went. Originally the left stated that what they wanted is for people to respect the right of consenting adults to do whatever they wanted in the privacy of their own bedrooms so long as they were not hurting anyone else. If the left had stopped there, I doubt there would be any controversy about their sexual behavior whatsoever.
When people are mad, they say something they think will hurt the person at whom they are angry. It really doesn't tell you their deeper thoughts about people in general.
He is a homophobic hypocrite. He is not punished. Homophobic, misogynist MSNBC has to protect itself from blowbacks. If Palin was not a conservative, Martin Bashir would be fired too. "Martin Bashir: Sarah Palin deserves to have someone defecate into her mouth."
Some People Just need a Little Extra Time in the Snuggle House.
Would Alec Be Okay with a Professional Male Snuggler?
Queer theory queered the word homophobia. Baldwin is a bully who sees what he feels is a weakness, and a person's sexual orientation is a target he can readily see being a trained Actor, so he uses that "weakness" to destroy his target.
Queer theory has forced people to conclude the bully is somehow afraid of the weakness (weakness in Baldwin's mind not reality*) of his enemy.
Science is on my side. Bully's bully because they feel strong and superior to the bullied, not because bully's are ultra-insecure or other fantasy.
*Many gays use the trauma of being bullied as a reason to work dilligently to become rich and powerful like Titus or Charles Nelson Reilly.
MayBee, Why did wife-beater Baldwin think that accusing someone gay hurts? "In vino veritas", how about in rage veritas?
Didn't he deny saying it, claiming he said fathead and that he had hired an expert who examined the soundbite?
Now he admits it?
He's a liar and a scumbag. A self-righteous one too. But he's a great comic actor, so I say who cares.
Your philosophy created this world where, if you do not follow the 'progressive' line of thinking, you are to be ostracized and characterized as extreme, racist, sexist, privileged, etc. You must not be allowed to exist. No writings, speeches, no guest appearances at a University. You must also be subjected to daily invectives from the media- print and broadcast. You must be hounded out of daily society. You must either repent (read: agree to be re-educated) or you must be removed.
In the old Soviet Union, this was business as usual. The Red Chinese made the Soviets look like pikers. And of course, Pol Pot in Cambodia did this very quickly and efficiently.
Our 'progressives' in this country are still learning, but they've had such great mentors from the 20th century. They'll get it yet.
Baldwin's saving grace is that he's a media produced liberal. Otherwise he'd have been thrown out a few issues ago. His problem is that he used up his 6 free passes he received as an official 'progressive'. Eventually, even Trotsky was done away with.
My advice to Baldwin, just find a way to claim some sort of victimhood. Tears help. You'll get your show back in no time flat. Look at Al Sharpton. He still has a show on that network. Al…Sharpton…has a show on that network. Jesus.
I love that they think progressive means something forward thinking. That's funny.
My first impression of the video was that the paparazzi-style ambush of Baldwin needed to be counterpunched by something equally offensive. A silent blow to the interlocutor would have been more appropriate.
Was the guy with the camera actually gay? If so, he probably didn't understand the sorts of protective feelings he aroused in a parent.
BTW Althouse...isn't this Baldwin stuff Andrew Sullivan's latest cause célébrité?
Well played. At least here people get to speak their mind.
Did I have a post deleted? About the gay mafia? I can't remember if it was here. If so, what was so offensive about it?
Hum, what would Mel Gibson think? Did he do more wrong that Baldwin?
My bad, it was in the chik-fil-A thread,. Carry on.
I think he should be banned from SNL. The only punishment he would recognize.
I think we found the perfect actor to play HNIC in the Biopic!!!!
Charley Sheehan found himself in the enviable position where holing up with a bevy of porn stars and a mountain of cocaine actually enhanced his reputation and marketability. Thus so with Alec Baldwin. The man has achieved enduring fame for being a loud mouthed jerk. This only serves to add luster to the shine. His greatest role was on 30 Rock where he played the part of a corporate executive with Republican connections. Baldwin's crassness has thus served to blacken the reputation not of liberals but of Republicans. He is probably right now in negotiations to play Mitt Romney in a six part miniseries on the last election.
uttering or shouted?
honestly, every time he loses his temper, he does this. when people lose their temper, they say things. not things they didn't mean, but things they really believe, but bypass their filter. Now, the problem I have with this is that the left, would crucify him if he wasn't so strident in his profession of leftist views. they give him a pass. and that is the problem with leftism in general.
Is there any evidence that the people he's calling faggots are actually gay? "Cocksucking faggot" is something a straight guy says to insult another straight guy, not a homosexual. I know that in and of itself would be just as offensive to GLAAD, et al, but it really is a different thing.
Although I can't pretend to really care either way. There are lots of reasons to dislike Alec Baldwin but his calling an obnoxious, pushy photographer a cocksucking faggot isn't one of them, even if the photographer in question is gay.
What is more offensive to me is Mr. Baldwin taking money from Capitol One (did I hear a $1 Million) whilst crowing his support for the OWS bank haters! Really?
Of course the letter label is what makes the difference!
(D) - grace, forgiveness, redemptions, only human, etc ...
(R) "BURN IN HELL", "EAT SHIT", etc ...
@Farmer
I've really can't recall ever homosexual slurs against someone who is actually gay, either in my life. So common I didn't know f*gg*t reference homosexuality for some time in my youth. But it just shows how common the slur was. I'm happy not to hear it.
But I disagree with gay marriage, so.. no TV show for me.
Exposing the hypocrisy between real and feigned feelings is always fair.
Baldwin's Id always prevails over his Superego. Entertaining.
"I also don't find it hard to understand someone feeling no hostility for gay people and still rejecting same-sex marriage and thinking that all non-procreative sexual behavior should be discouraged."
How about someone actually kind of liking homosexuals and enjoying their company, but being sick and tired of their ridiculous pretense that they are not damaged?
Excerpts from Dalton's "Sermon on the Double Deuce"
"If somebody gets in your face and calls you a cocksucker, I want you to be nice...
It's two nouns combined to elicit a prescribed response."
Slurs, threatens, and bullies. Alec threatens several journalists and it looks like his wife is no better by using him to go after a woman at 1:32.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z9FDD7udJE
Such a turd.
"Is there any evidence that the people he's calling faggots are actually gay?"
I gave you evidence.
Alec is an Actor.
Capital A.
He sees, and is trained to see things like gayness.
Like farmers see, and are trained to see, government insurance payments.
Thanks Titus for pointing that out to me.
http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=55000
I looked up a bunch.
Now it all makes more sense.
I always knew they were the way they were based upon my arguments and their interactions.
Gay rights: You have the right to be gay. You do not have the right to anyone's personal approval of it. Jerks don't get much sympathy, and will use up/waste others' supply of sympathy.
Those companies earned those billions in contracts and deals.
They are serving their fellow countrymen.
The government is able to help, needed, and corruption is a part of the reality, sad as it is.
Death from Ethanol still is not a consideration; too much money.
If he had used a racial slur, this would be an open and shut case.
His resorting to homophobic slurs has happened in the past.
Not an AB admirer and dislike the whole celebrity culture/obsession but I can understand feeling harassed by celebrity media types and driven to angry outbursts of frustration. He has indicated wanting to run for public office. Does he really have the temperament?
LBJ said a lot of bad things but signed the Civil Rights Act. Which was more important?
And when Johnson signed the 'Great Society' legislation, he said "I'll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years."
"Rights" are defined by constitutions. There are no "Gay Rights" beyond those allocated to all citizens.
Just as long as his pig of a daughter doesn't become a lesbo, he'll be okay.
If Baldwin Called Obama a "C**cksucker" Would He Be Homophobic, Racist, or Correct?
Yes, There is a Joke Inside There Inferring that Michelle Has a Penis. Happily Married; Swallows.
Cut the guy some slack he suffers from a disorder of some kind anger management maybe yeah he's disordered man not like them tea bagger cheap bastards holding on to their last dimes yeah Alec has his own share of misfortunes what with a pig daughter and a hindu wife demanding sex from him all day and half the night you know how those people are with their flexibility and such and them chakras screaming for attention just like them narcissistic gays look at me look at me. Is it no wonder he called the fotog that vile name?
I await, eagerly, the day when someone beats the shit out of this asshole. On camera. Without mercy. The old fashioned way.
The journalist he oushed the other day, a former prizefighter, has challenged him to a fight with proceeds to go to GLAAD or whatever it is called. I hope AB takes him upmand gets his cocksucking jaw broken.
'In vino veritas' translates into Southern as 'A drunk man speaks a sober man's mind.' Human wisdom directs many channels into one river.
Baldwin deserves to be slammed for this, and more, because that's what he's done to others who have done less.
No, he can't buy a pass.
I'm no fan of Alec Baldwin, but Andrew Sullivan is wrong. Alec Baldwin was saying he was going to kick the reporter's ass, and was calling for his followers to "straighten [him] out"-- which, though ambiguous, could be violence, I suppose-- but it was not occurring for the reporter being gay. Gay people are not exempt by reason of their sexuality from anything bad happening to them for other reasons. And calling him a "queen"? Well, if I call a woman a bitch, am I hating women in general for using a derogatory term specific to women about a woman for actions that have nothing to do with her gender? It's time for the political correctness Nazis to suffer publicly for their actions, in my opinion.
It's interesting to note that in a progressive society, thought crimes are considered to be a greater violation of individual, societal, and even human rights. Perhaps it's because this class of crimes is easier to exploit in redistribution schemes.
Anyway, the key to his salvation lies in the "urban dictionary" and the "millions and millions of little screens".
"Eagerness to support gay rights may stem from a desire to compensate for strongly felt aversion to gay people." Whom do I quote?
I don't care about whether he was trashing on this minority or that identity group - what I do care about is that he has a history (and, based on his regular-as-clockwork eruptions, a future) of verbal assaults in public, on strangers and family members alike. He may be a talented actor, and I don't care what MSNBC does about their televised partisan cheerleading sessions, but why in the name of all that is holy and sacred, does Capital One continue to use this man as their choleric, ready-to-stroke-out face to the world?
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