"Anywhere in the world, whoever uses religion for political aims, or to benefit some and not others, will fall... You can't fool all the people all the time, let alone the Egyptian people who have a civilization that is thousands of years old, and who espouse clear, Arab nationalist thought."
Said Bashar Assad.
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147 comments:
Could the past be prologue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Republic
"the Egyptian people who have a civilization that is thousands of years old, and who espouse clear, Arab nationalist thought..."
Because Arab nationalist thought was such a winner in its own right.....
You can't fool all the people all the time, but if you can do it just once, it lasts for four years. - Roger Price
Underestimating the problem.
Are Egyptians Arabs? Both Arabs and Islam are alien to Egypt, and were introduced through coercion.
How long before and under what criteria, does an invading population and culture supersede the legitimate people and character of the native population?
This is not a particularly interesting question, other than it has a universal relevance, and is often answered with a unique prejudice.
Egypt was always a relatively secular country.
The idea the crazies could establish themselves there wasn't the easiest shot in the world.
The Pencil Neck, however, is trying to reassure himself that what happened in Iran can't happen to him.
n.n said...
Are Egyptians Arabs? Both Arabs and Islam are alien to Egypt, and were introduced through coercion.
How long before and under what criteria, does an invading population and culture supersede the legitimate people and character of the native population?
This is not a particularly interesting question, other than it has a universal relevance, and is often answered with a unique prejudice.
Egyptians are not arabs and no arab would dare consider an egyptian on par with them. Anything less than an arab is to be sneered at and at the worst tolerated.
n.n said...
Are Egyptians Arabs? Both Arabs and Islam are alien to Egypt, and were introduced through coercion.
As a very spirited (and proud) Egyptian lady once told me, "I am not Arab. I am Egyptian. The Arabs are barbarians. The Arabs invaded Egypt. I am not Arab. I am Egyptian."
Those Pharaohs were so darn democratic.
Islam is a scourage.
I declare Fatwa on Assad!!
One good note so far, the Egyptian army arrested Mahdi Akef.
This guy's a bad actor.
Removing Islam from politics and politics from Islam is impossible. Islam is a FULLY integrated system which does not allow of such separation.
Because Arab nationalist thought was such a winner in its own right.....
Actually there is nothing wrong with Arab nationalism. I would actually like to see a little more of it.
The problem is Islam.
I think what is happening in Egypt and Turkey is huge. This is the halt, perhaps temporarily, of the effort to rebuild the Caliphate across north Africa and into Europe. If Bush had accomplished this with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, it would be like Reagan with the fall of the Berlin Wall. It's remarkable that Obama isn't ceasing this great moment. Instead, he still is pushing the leading from behind strategy. This strategy is alienating those who are currently working to inherent Egypt. It's happening in Libya too, and will likely occur in Afghanistan and Iraq if he continues this strategy.
The Egyptian people seem to have gang raping women down pat. What a civilization!
It's remarkable that Obama isn't ceasing this great moment.
He would if he were not really on the side of Erdogan and Morsi..
""Anywhere in the world, whoever uses religion for political aims, or to benefit some and not others, will fall.."
"Anywhere in the world"?
Hell, we can't even get that implemented here,...
Oh, BTW:
Somewhere, George W. Bush is smiling,...
So Iran doesn't have "political islam?"
There are no good guys over there, and the best that can be hoped for is that they all kill each other and/or starve to death.
Leland said...
It's remarkable that Obama isn't ceasing this great moment.
He's too busy trying to save the Moslem Brotherhood.
And cover up yet another foreign policy disaster.
PS Think you meant seizing (which could have 2 meanings here*), but, yes, any American President normally would.
*At the thought of the loss of one of the Moslem dictatorships he tried so hard to foster, he may well be seizing (5a).
That would be good.
Now if only America's good little Republicans would follow suit and quit trying to turn congress into a monastery and America into a giant church.
So Iran doesn't have "political islam?"
There are no good guys over there, and the best that can be hoped for is that they all kill each other and/or starve to death.
Before tens of millions of repressed Iranian democracy advocates and activists do every intelligent person the good service of garroting "President-Mom-Jeans" from a lamppost, they would surely vote for this as most ignorant comment of the century.
It's remarkable that Obama isn't ceasing this great moment.
"Ceasing"?
You can't fool all of the people all of the time.
But that's what armies and secret police and universal surveillance are for. Then you can focus on the people who most troublesome.
Ah, the call for violence, very classy Bitchmo.
I'm sure your sidekick cunt Inga will rouse herself from her alcohol induced stupor to be notifying the internet police about your comment any minute now.
Maybe Obama can serve up my location to your Iranian buddies or just whisk me off in the dead of night like Nakoula.
Ethnic Egyptians are a special race themselves that we're conquered by Arabs from Saudi Arabia like everyone was up to Tours in France was the high water mark when Franks from Belgium area killed them because of Islamaphobia.
most ethnic Egyptias are Muslims so they can be part of the winning side, but they think Arabs are stupid. They revere the Pharoahs for wisdom.
Rhythm and Balls said...
That would be good.
Now if only America's good little Republicans would follow suit and quit trying to turn congress into a monastery and America into a giant church.
Last I saw, the only establishment of religion here was the one around Ritmo's Messiah.
And, Ritmo, from me to you becuase no one deserves it more.
PS You'll never see Der Fuhrer doing any of this.
Somewhere, George W. Bush is smiling,...
Here, in Zambia, where he's helping renovate a women’s health clinic.
Imagining what the Green Revolution would do with you makes all your catty little insults worth it, Fat Jeans!
Well, on the one hand I don't exactly think Syria's president gets high marks for being politically wise. Savvy, yes, since he's managed to deal with the Shiite radical Hezbollah up until now without getting his Christian-Alawite ass killed. But not wise. I don't even accord him an evil wisdom; I just view him as a somewhat intelligent thug.
All the same, while it pains me to think this, I hope he's right in this one, specific regard. Because it would be nice if this marked a change in how political Islamicists are viewed by the populaces of Middle Eastern nations. The less appealing the politico-religious shysters are, the better off the populations there will be. Sure, you'll still have the non-Islamic-radical evil ones - again, Assad's the perfect example of this - but one more group of bad guys getting marginalized is always a good thing.
That's a pretty funny link, ed.
Do you always outsource your wittiness to others?
Leland,
If Bush had accomplished this with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, it would be like Reagan with the fall of the Berlin Wall.
"If"? "If"? You've never understood the war, the strategy, or it's aims at all, do you?
Look at a map of the Middle East, find Iraq and Afghanistan, and then see if you can suss out what we're up to, based on their locations. Hint:
Saudi Arabia - where all 19 high jackers came from - sits right in between them. Hmmmm.
Wouldn't a little taste of democracy fuck THAT place up. Everybody's watching - and it's coming. Or do you think people under Arab dictatorships are going to see Saddam, Mubarak, Morsi, and possibly Assad overthrown without eventually thinking, "Why are we still kowtowing to these assholes?" No. The natural inclination is to say "enough."
Where do you think this drive for democracy in the Middle East sprang from? Iraqis with purple fingers, that's where. Bush said all along, if you can establish democracy somewhere over there - and, since we already had obligations to Iraq, it was perfect - democracy would spread. He knew it. Because he's a good man giving everyone the benefit of the doubt. How long that can take, by country, is the question.
If Americans hadn't irrationally fought Bush (BDS) it probably would've happened sooner, and smoother.
Oh, you mean that Green revolution that your affirmative action hero refused to lend even verbal support to? That one?
The one that was brutally put down through force when President Foodstamps didn't say shit, instead waiting to support the Muslim Brotherhood taking power in Egypt over a flawed but at least pro western Mubarak? (That worked out great by the way.)
But, despite what I just posted, and despite hoping that the hideous and evil bastard Assad is accidentally right just this once, I have to admit that he's probably saying it simply because he's at odds with the MB at this time. It's probably just him puffing his chest out so he can draw some sort of parallel to his own nation's problems. It's almost certainly not any sort of perception of trends by him as much as it is an act of stating something just to try and make it become true.
Oh, you mean that Green revolution that your affirmative action hero refused to lend even verbal support to? That one?
Hey, if anyone suffers under the illusion that her FAT MOUTH (or anyone's) could run the world, it's PRESIDENT FAT JEANS!!!
LOL.
Your leftwing authoritarian violent fantasy is kind of dated Bitchmo.
Sounds like a rehashing of "When the revolution comes, you will not be spared." Except you outsource your threat to a bunch of Persians.
Nothing new? I thought you lefties hated outsourcing.
Quite the toughguy you are Bitchmo.
Rhythm and Balls said...
Imagining what the Green Revolution would do with you makes all your catty little insults worth it, Fat Jeans!
You mean those Mongolian Green Nazis or those terrible green cars that pollute as badly as internal combustion ones?
That's a pretty funny link, ed.
Do you always outsource your wittiness to others?
And it's so true.
If anyone could count on FAT JEANS to do anything, it's to lend "verbal support".
If you can't be verbose or verbally talented, then be a verbal supporter, a la FAT JEANS.
It's got a nice ring to it. Kind of like, "If you can't be an athlete, at least be an athletic supporter."
Lol.
Wow, you are using CAPS!
That makes everything you say so much wittier and hard hitting.
Did you learn that devastating technique from the boozed up old cow?
However shall I come back from the stinging insult delivered in ALL CAPS?
You mean those Mongolian Green Nazis or those terrible green cars that pollute as badly as internal combustion ones?
You can't make this up, folks.
ed is actually so dumb, (audience interrupts, asking "How dumb is he?!" - more on that later) - that he actually confuses the Green Revolution for true democracy in Iran for an environmental protest.
LOL!!!
Of course the Egyptions want Arab Nationalism. They don't have any oil.
Great link, edutcher. Perfect for the 4th.
And you're right, I haven't seen anything like that from Dear Leader (his core constituency would probably go into conniptions if he did).
However shall I come back from the stinging insult delivered in ALL CAPS?
Not with any of the wits you were ever purported to have intact, apparently.
Bush said all along, if you can establish democracy somewhere over there - and, since we already had obligations to Iraq, it was perfect - democracy would spread. He knew it.
Exactly what I think too. Problem is, the leftists "No Blood for Oil" crowd make it so you can't say what we are doing over there.
But, it's hard.
I think Hitchens was a big proponent of the Iraq war for this reason.
Nothing about Obama completely abandoning the Green Revolution that you were hoping would "garrote" me from a lamp post early.
But you did use ALL CAPS!
Truly the left is blessed to have such a master debater as Bitchmo demonstrating the highest levels of liberal thought and discourse.
Bravo sir, bravo.
As fun as it is to bash The Talking Horse and FAT JEANS, it's a bit sad to waste time with those two bozos on July 4th. It's like I'm witnessing a nightmare of George Washington's as he envisioned how ignorantly future generations of American wastrels would waste their freedom.
Ignorance and trash talk may be the only birthright to which they can lay claim. What a pity.
Oh well. Happy 4th.
Actually there is nothing wrong with Arab nationalism. I would actually like to see a little more of it.
Like the Saddam Hussein kind? I think that was his goal, to unit Arabia and the oil resources there. Nothing wrong with this in principle, but, we have the idiot leftists who refuse to develop our own oil resources.
How can you let another region like Arabia have that kind of power over the world?
Nothing about Obama completely abandoning the Green Revolution that you were hoping would "garrote" me from a lamp post early.
Fantasies of American presidents on galloping white horses (or landing on aircraft carriers) aside, I wonder what better fate you'd find appropriate for someone who (like yourself) believes that Iranians protesting and dying for democracy and freedom are a rotten bunch.
Nice how when you're not trash talking them you say that Obama needs to give them a better sense of false hope.
Stunning cognitive dissonance, that.
Rhythm and Balls said...
You mean those Mongolian Green Nazis or those terrible green cars that pollute as badly as internal combustion ones?
You can't make this up, folks.
ed is actually so dumb, (audience interrupts, asking "How dumb is he?!" - more on that later) - that he actually confuses the Green Revolution for true democracy in Iran for an environmental protest.
It's had several uses, genius, including agriculture, technology, and, yes, automotives, but, considering how your Messiah betrayed the Iranians, you are the last guy in the world to invoke it against anyone else.
You are witnessing a nightmare of that slave owning racist who murdered so many native Americans?
Oh no, you must be so devastated. Those dead old white men haunting you Bitchmo?
Tuck your tail between your legs and run off like the little bitch that you are.
It's had several uses, genius, including agriculture, technology, and, yes, automotives...
Not in a discussion on Iran - it didn't. And even deep down in your third copy of the 21st chromosome, you agree.
Nasser was a big fan of Arab Nationalism and he wanted to be to it what Lenin was to Communism.
Lessee, there were 2 Arab-Israeli Wars under him.
Yeah, we need more of that.
You are witnessing a nightmare of that slave owning racist who murdered so many native Americans?
Oh no, you must be so devastated. Those dead old white men haunting you Bitchmo?
The only reality in which people are either completely perfect or completely evil is the one that Bitchy FAT JEANS makes up when not dreaming of presidents marching into cities all over the world on white horses, shiny armor and the aircraft carrier that they first landed on before being brought ashore.
Get real.
Uh, Ritmo, you forget.
Choom screwed us on both instances.
Is that like fantasies of a bunch of Persians on the other side of the planet performing violence on someone who you disagree with politically?
It is an overgeneralization to say that there are no good guys in that part of the world The kurds, the Israeli's, and the Coptic Christians are a tiny percentage of the population there, and I exclude them from that group.
There is even smaller a percentage of good guys in the American political left.
I hope that both of those groups (minus the exceptions I mentioned) continue to kill each other and eventually starve.
Actually there is nothing wrong with Arab nationalism. I would actually like to see a little more of it.
Like the Saddam Hussein kind? I think that was his goal, to unit Arabia and the oil resources there. Nothing wrong with this in principle, but, we have the idiot leftists who refuse to develop our own oil resources.
How can you let another region like Arabia have that kind of power over the world?
I would like to see the Middle East become a secular region of the world. The only possible force for acheiving this is Arab nationalism. Rather than Hussein, I'd like to Abdullah II of Jordan lead the movement.
does this apply to the church of progressivism?
...someone who you disagree with politically?
We don't merely just have a political disagreement. We have a disagreement on responsible, global leadership. You think responsible leadership is about saying nice, flattering and disingenuously hopeful things to people for whom (we can now see) you feel utterly contemptuous for as they fight for freedom, and I don't.
This never used to be something that would create any political divisions. Because even a mere 20 years ago, no Republicans in responsible positions of leadership thought something so dumb. That shameless and empty demagoguery was a great foreign policy. Only you and your ilk now do.
It is an overgeneralization to say that there are no good guys in that part of the world The kurds, the Israeli's, and the Coptic Christians are a tiny percentage of the population there, and I exclude them from that group.
Then why did you do it? Because you like to divide your "good versus evil" mindset onto ethnicities? That will be a great way to improve the global order... in a world full of dangerous idiots.
There is even smaller a percentage of good guys in the American political left.
Think what you want.
I hope that both of those groups (minus the exceptions I mentioned) continue to kill each other and eventually starve.
Hate to burst your bubble, dollface, but mass starvation is not the fate of that region. I realize that upping the ignorance ante has an appeal to you like diamonds to Anna Nicole Smith. But you aren't entitled to agreement or making that ignorance seem more influential than it should be. That's where I come in.
Folks, I would be really careful about advocating for Arab Nationalism simply because it's positioned itself as an enemy of political Islamicism. It has too much in common with German nationalism in the early 20th century for me to think that it's even remotely a good thing.
The fact that it's taking the role of being the political opposite of radical politico-Islamicism doesn't automatically mean that it's moderate. Far from it, unfortunately. There are indeed Arab nationalists in the crowds protesting the Morsi government, and what they want doesn't resemble freedom in the slightest.
I hate to Godwin this thread, but seriously: When thinking Arab Nationalism, don't equate it to honorable and laudable national patriotism like what we have in the US. Again, think "Nazis". No, Arab Nationalism doesn't automatically mean Arab National Socialism, but it's light years closer to Giovanni Gentile and Benito Mussolini - and Adolf Hitler - than it is to any western leadership you can think of. Trust me, the world doesn't need any of that.
So violent fantasies of having Persians on the other side of the globe perform violence on people who you disagree with on what constitutes responsible global leadership (as you define it, which is somehow different than political disagreement in your head) is just fine and dandy?
If you don't think that there will be mass starvation in Egypt (a country full of millions of illiterates that imports 40% of its calories, has dwindling currency reserves, and no oil) in the next several years, then you probably believe in the tooth fairy.
And Keynesian multipliers.
And global warming. And all manner of retarded leftwing religious hokum.
The nice thing about being in my position is that I don't have to fantasize about groups on the other side of the planet doing violence on those I disagree with.
Islamists, much like Obama voters, do plenty of violence on one another every day, be it in the streets Cairo, the suburbs of Damascus, or the streets of Chicago.
Hope and Change!
Wait, I know how your mind works Bitchmo.
HOPE AND CHANGE!
Rhythm and Balls said...
...someone who you disagree with politically?
We don't merely just have a political disagreement. We have a disagreement on responsible, global leadership. You think responsible leadership is about saying nice, flattering and disingenuously hopeful things to people for whom (we can now see) you feel utterly contemptuous for as they fight for freedom, and I don't.
It wasn't the Conservatives that sold out the Iranians, the Libyans, and the Egyptians, and is trying to sell out the Syrians.
It was your own Little Zero.
This never used to be something that would create any political divisions. Because even a mere 20 years ago, no Republicans in responsible positions of leadership thought something so dumb. That shameless and empty demagoguery was a great foreign policy. Only you and your ilk now do.
Ilk???
Anybody who ilks is just proving how narrow they are.
And Ritmo doesn't believe in freedom, he believes in his Messiah and all the power he collects for the Left.
Oh, and by the way, Ritmo, that drivel you belched, "This never used to be something that would create any political divisions. Because even a mere 20 years ago, no Republicans in responsible positions of leadership thought something so dumb."?
That started about 50 years ago and it was people like you that started it.
You wanted the people of Indo-China enslaved under the Commies (sweat shops ringing any bells?) and you tore the country apart to get what you wanted.
You did it 25 years ago when it looked like Ronald Reagan was serious about winning the Cold War. that time you lost.
You did it again 10 years ago when Dubya was getting too popular fighting terrorists. Too bad, he won in Iraq anyway, although Choom has done his damnedest to lost in A-stan.
And now your Fearless Leader is someone who supports and encourages terrorists.
You're the one who "feels utterly contemptuous for people as they fight for freedom". You always have and you always will.
Mommie Jeannies wastes 9 paragraphs to say that it's a kick-ass foreign policy to give false hope to people dying in the streets for freedom. But she thinks their ethnicity is beneath her anyway, so maybe there is a method to her madness.
She also thinks the same Egyptians who exported grain to imperial Rome 2,000 years ago will forget how to trade.
And then throws in the usual, RNC/FOX boilerplate.
Welcome to your party's intellectual foundations, Republicans.
ed wastes even more writing his own manifesto.
From a literary standpoint, he's a regular Ted Kaczynski, or Chairman Mao.
Just much less literate.
Rhythm and Balls said...
So Iran doesn't have "political islam?"
There are no good guys over there, and the best that can be hoped for is that they all kill each other and/or starve to death.
Before tens of millions of repressed Iranian democracy advocates and activists do every intelligent person the good service of garroting "President-Mom-Jeans" from a lamppost, they would surely vote for this as most ignorant comment of the century.
Ah. But our president made sure that the Iranian Greens would never get the chance.
She also thinks the same Egyptians who imported grain to imperial Rome 2,000 years ago will forget how to trade.
Did they import to or export from?
They are good traders, currently importing 40% of their foodstuffs. The US brings in about 15%, mostly conveniently inexpensive fruit and vegetables which could otherwise be grown domestically.
They wont starve if they run out of money but they will eat less well.
Yes Bitchmo, the population of Egypt is exactly the same now as it was 2,000 years ago. They will be exporting food again in no time. They will do such a bang up job of trading too, why don't you list me what products they will be exporting?
While you are at it, why don't you tell me what a "kick-foreign policy" is?
Nothing to say about how political disagreement is different from "responsible global governance", except in your deluded libtard head.
Nothing about how its okay to call for garroting from lamp posts by people on the other side of the planet.
You are a sad little boy way out of your depth, with no arguments to make other than ranting about fox news.
I will give you credit though Bitchmo, you have made a very convincing argument for one left wing position today. You demonstrate quite well that in some cases abortion would have been a good idea.
Ah. But our president made sure that the Iranian Greens would never get the chance.
Rusty, you too can march in on your white horse, shiny armor, and aircraft carrier-assisted landing, with President (not) McCain, a few trillions thrown into the effort (off the books, of course) and a promise that America has the resources to remake a country three times as populous as Iraq.
Rusty for President and Invade Iran! Best debt-reduction policy and feelgood for freedom policy ever invented!
Yes Bitchmo, the population of Egypt is exactly the same now as it was 2,000 years ago.
Well, it's certainly possible that, unlike you, they might actually have the ability to remember things.
Rhythm and Balls said...
She also thinks the same Egyptians who exported grain to imperial Rome 2,000 years ago will forget how to trade.
First, they haven't had the grain in a long time
Second, it takes money to buy food, genius, and the Egyptians are a little short these days.
ed wastes even more writing his own manifesto.
From a literary standpoint, he's a regular Ted Kaczynski, or Chairman Mao.
Just much less literate.
Translation:
Fuck, he knows the history of the late 20th century.
And he knows I'm dissing my own side to try to look good.
PS You're renouncing Chairman Mao?
I'll bet you spent your teen years dreaming of going over there and helping the Cultural Revolution.
Any support for the greens did not involve riding in on horses,etc. a poor deflection from an inarguable point. Obama went silent when the green revolution began to gain slight momentum. Maybe it was the right thing to do but a silly shining armour counter argument suggests some lack of depth with regard to the topic.
Is there any starker display that everything Bitch Jeans says about Iran is for her own pride and domestic consumption?
Trillions more to remake a country so that she can feel good about her own personal understanding of freedom.
Never has so much been asked of so many so that so powerless a country can be used as so big a prop for so little a person to feel so good about what freedom means.
Any support for the greens did not involve riding in on horses,etc. a poor deflection from an inarguable point. Obama went silent when the green revolution began to gain slight momentum.
It had no chance at the time to succeed. But I realize I'm saying this to someone who might think that "pump and dump" is an admirable financial strategy so I don't labor under any illusions that the lesson won't be lost on him.
Rhythm and Balls said...
Yes Bitchmo, the population of Egypt is exactly the same now as it was 2,000 years ago.
Well, it's certainly possible that, unlike you, they might actually have the ability to remember things.
You didn't put this in all caps, so I guess you will have to clarify what they need to remember about trading.
What are they going to trade? Sand? Their high tech literate workforce? The amazing manufacturing that comes out of Egypt?
What are they going to trade Bitchmo? Carbon credits?
Egypt produces nothing except poverty. The one thing that was somewhat keeping the subsidized bread afloat was foreign tourist dollars (gone) and foreign aid (the spigot is drying up).
You claim that they will just remember to trade, because 2000 years, because shut up.
That claim goes nowhere besides your retarded little trolling head.
Rhythm and Balls said...
Is there any starker display that everything Bitch Jeans says about Iran is for her own pride and domestic consumption?
Trillions more to remake a country so that she can feel good about her own personal understanding of freedom.
Never has so much been asked of so many so that so powerless a country can be used as so big a prop for so little a person to feel so good about what freedom means.
Ritmo, I knew Winston Churchill (read his books).
Winston Churchill was a friend of mine (admire him greatly).
You are no Winston Churchill.
A pack of Winstons, maybe - cancer and all, but that's it.
RB. I made the point because your glibness is no mask for your shallowness. What, by the way, is pump and dump?
Twenty bucks says you don't even personally know anyone not from America, let alone from England. So anyone with a connection to Churchill is as out of the question as is your ability to travel to another galaxy.
Which part of the flyover are you from, ed? No need to get specific, I'm just wondering which rectangular state or states might get me a better idea on the region that harbors someone as isolated from the world around him as you.
I made the point because your glibness is no mask for your shallowness. What, by the way, is pump and dump?
But my understanding of Iran and American political reactions to it is on-target.
And it's one thing to play coy and at all times above-board when it comes to what you do, but not about what goes on in one's own industry.
Pump and dump is what Titus does to Bitchmo before leaving him in the bushes in search of someone more fabulous.
Still waiting to hear what Egypt is going to trade to make up for that 40% of its populations calorie intake that they are currently needing to import.
Pump and dump is what Titus does to Bitchmo before leaving him in the bushes in search of someone more fabulous.
The keen mind of the RNC's proposed foreign policy speaks!
Still waiting to hear what Egypt is going to trade to make up for that 40% of its populations calorie intake that they are currently needing to import.
Wait as long as you like to continue engagement on an issue you're as disingenuous about as you are on Iran - your hatred of ALL its people very much withstanding. Even Michael knows that starvation is not an issue - much as that deprives you of your need to feel superior to 84 million brown people around the Nile delta and south.
You advertisement to not ever be taken seriously on these things has been noticed. I've said my peace and am responding appropriately by ignoring you. Anyone intelligent or curious enough to become intelligent (which by definition, excludes you) is welcome to continue that discussion with me.
RB. But my understanding of Iran and American political reactions to it is on-target
How would we know since you have not expressed either an understanding or your opinion of the American political reaction. You have only sneered at thise who bother to articulate their views.
I am off for a run before it is too late. You realy can fuck up a thread RB. Too bad you arent as smart as you think or wish you were. Or maybe the chip on your shoulder resides there because all of your peers who are not so clever are doing better in life.
Cheers.
Gee Michael -
You managed to throw in no less than two or three incoherently disingenuous ideas in that short comment, which must be a record even for you. But you were right on Egypt and the options in Iran - even if you seemed incapable of following through on making sense of how that disconnected with subsequent political advocacy in the Party of NO. So that's something, I guess.
And if you wonder why Obama is so ambivalent and somewhat sympathetic to the MB ask him what they did to help in the murder of Ambassador Stevens and 3 other Americans on Sept 11, 2012. The MB worked with Axlerod and the OFA to create a political trap for Romney but were double crossed and Al Qaeda killed our citizens.
Where was Obama the night of Sept 11 2012?
Rhythm and Balls said...
Still waiting to hear what Egypt is going to trade to make up for that 40% of its populations calorie intake that they are currently needing to import.
Wait as long as you like to continue engagement on an issue you're as disingenuous about as you are on Iran - your hatred of ALL its people very much withstanding. Even Michael knows that starvation is not an issue - much as that deprives you of your need to feel superior to 84 million brown people around the Nile delta and south.
It's not?
Maybe you better tell the WFP.
Oh, yes, people like Ritmo have a deep connection to the "brown people around the Nile delta and south".
It's on their "I'm a Lefty" membership card.
Methadras, edutcher:
I was just thinking about the special and unique attention given to Israel, and America, for that matter. Are they so vulnerable that they can be isolated at will and the antagonists can attack its legitimacy without consequences or suffering the bigot label?
So you, much like the Egyptian government, can't answer that question.
Because the answer is nothing.
I acknowledge your concession Bitcmo.
Still waiting to hear what Egypt is going to trade to make up for that 40% of its populations calorie intake that they are currently needing to import.
5,000 years of history if the Muslims don't completely fuck it up.
Assad is a fascist. The Bro's are fascists. The mullahs in Tehran are fascists. The House of Saud--you guessed it--fascists.
Assad has hated the Bro's for a long time. He'd like nothing better than some kind of a Nasserite flavor of Pan Arab fascism to emerge in Egypt, and the rest of the ME for that matter.
He's longing for the good old days when your enemies slept with the fishes and the western money flowed.
So pick your nazi--the Islamism is just a front. You got yer Shi'a version, your Saudi flavor--Wahabi I think they call it--ad nauseam.
The fact that it's taking the role of being the political opposite of radical politico-Islamicism doesn't automatically mean that it's moderate. Far from it, unfortunately. There are indeed Arab nationalists in the crowds protesting the Morsi government, and what they want doesn't resemble freedom in the slightest.
This is true. There is in fact no broad sentiment, or indeed ability for, what we consider to be a classical liberal democracy. The very concept of equality is still rejected by the vast majority of Arabs. My family before yours, my tribe before yours etc. They truly believe this stuff.
We have to destroy the power of Islam above all. The only way to do this is to give the Arab people an identity to replace it. Arab nationalism provides this.
After they have created a secular nation state, evil as it maybe, then we can attempt an Arab Enlightenment, or if you are a real dreamer an Islamic Reformation.
They key to understanding the Middle East,(apart from Israel) is to remember that they are trapped 500 years back in history, and Islam is keeping them there. (on purpose)
Issob Morocco sez:
Where was Obama the night of Sept 11 2012?
How many times does he have to tell you? We have an ongoing investigation and can't comment. But, we gonna get 'em! Ask DOJ.
Same answer on IRS!
Rhythm and Balls said...
Ah. But our president made sure that the Iranian Greens would never get the chance.
Rusty, you too can march in on your white horse, shiny armor, and aircraft carrier-assisted landing, with President (not) McCain, a few trillions thrown into the effort (off the books, of course) and a promise that America has the resources to remake a country three times as populous as Iraq.
Rusty for President and Invade Iran! Best debt-reduction policy and feelgood for freedom policy ever invented!
All the Greens wanted was some acknowledgement that their cause was noticed outside of Iran. The west and more importantly the United States failed them.
hyperbole doesn't help your case.Whatever your case is today.
"the same Egyptians who exported grain to imperial Rome 2,000 years ago will forget how to trade."
Egypt didn't *trade* its grain with Rome 2000 years ago. Rather, Augustus, after deposing Cleopatra, directly annexed Egypt to the Roman Empire, at which point Egypt's grain was considered Rome's grain, and there was no need to trade, barter, haggle, or engage in any other business dealings over it. Rome just took it.
edutcher,
Thanks for the correction. Engligh isn't my strong suit, but then I make more money doing other things. There may be reasons to cease what's going on, but better to seize the moment to build allies.
Very good.
This Assad guy bugs me. I wish him ill. And that's bad. I must now pray.
Sweet Jesus in heaven, please hear my prayer.
Lord look at bastard Bashar Assad
And smite that surly ugly ass hat.
Cause his palaces to fall and waste,
And Lord, please do these things in haste.
Amen,
your friend Chip.
Okay, that one didn't come out so nice, apologies, but English isn't my strong suit either.
Egypt isn't likely to face starvation not because of their trading skills-they haven't what to trade but rather because the West will provide enough food aid to prevent them from starving.
Agriculture is water intensive and water is something that is in short supply in Egypt, the Middle East and North Africa. Claiming the Egypt and Libya were the breadbasket of the Roman Empire is pointless. Those countries were considerably wetter two thousand years ago and vastly less populated.
"... or if you are a real dreamer an Islamic Reformation."
Sorry, we've actually had an Islamic Reformation, and as far as dreams go it is a real nightmare.
"water is something that is in short supply in Egypt"
Indeed; the Jonglei Canal project was one of the secondary factors leading to the 2nd Sudanese Civil War.
Egypt may be secular (I do know that the average Cairo Egyptian has a very relaxed view of Islam). However, the Egyptian Islamic scholars frequently discuss their notion of the world. They divide the world into 2 parts. The first part they refer to is known to them as the world of Islam. The second, or rest of the world, they refer to as the "world at war".
That description says it all vis a vis the non Islam's issues with the "religion of peace".
Maybe it's better worth hoping for some Caliphate to return, you know the old Islam, not the Islamist Caliphate nor the Western fusions, where, as Bernard Lewis noted, power was distributed more evenly and the Sultans more accountable to those they ruled.
Maybe you can hope for some concept of Western liberty, small l liberalism, or democratic representation to take root but that's if there's some kind of reform within Islam, and I'm skeptical that's about to happen.
In the meantime, Arab nationalism and Islamism still play front and center. If you are waiting for some kind of Western style revolution we can recognize, odds are you'll be waiting for awhile.
Meanwhile or current foreign policy is hopelessly idealistic, further out there than Carter.
And smite that surly ugly ass hat.
When you look up Assad's father, Google's People also search for is a veritable assembly of Al-Assads.
It's ass ads all the way down.
Except for R&B, the intellectually limited troll, the Obots seem to be missing here.
Wonder why?
Except for R&B, the intellectually limited troll, the Obots seem to be missing here.
They are waiting to find out which side we are on?
It can get confusing with Kerry's we were for the muslim brotherhood before we were against them.
I would like to thank the Egyptians for a new word for Inga though. Hayzaboon.
Seems to fit.
The money we give Egypt is tied to a no coup clause. I'm not making this up.
Santa Claus with strings attached.
So, the Egyptians are no fools, they took their cue from our very own Supreme chief Justice Robert's Penalty/Tax mimic.
"This is not a coup, but the will of Egypt's people"
Its funny how it just so happened that their interim new president is also, or was also, the chief justice of the Egyptian supreme court.
I don't know if the new constitution, which I suppose they are going to rip up, allows for an interim president to remain a justice.
I'd imagine the cries of 'no justice no peace' would have to be ameliorated by the audience of a new justice, or an interim justice, until the interim president relinquishes his internship and returns to being a justice again.
And that's just keeping track of one guy and what he may want to decide with regards to his future... career guidance counselors are very busy right now over there.
Isn't it hilarious that by a confluence of letters, if not imagination, Monica Lewinsky could have been president of Egypt.
Hey, isn't an impeachment a kind of political coup?
But instead of William Rehnquist we would've had Al Gore as president.
It's so good to see hombre around! How many dicks has he been off sucking and slurping on, one wonders? Nice of him to take time off from his busy schedule of fellatio to showcase his unlimited intellect here.
Remind me, what does he have to contribute to the discussion? Oh that's right. Nothing.
Suck away, hombre! Suck away!
The money we give Egypt is tied to a no coup clause. I'm not making this up.
Wow. Lem having something to say that isn't made up? That's impressive! We know how hard it is for him to stick to reality, what with the allure of little pink elephants dancing around his head. Someone buy that wino a drink!
For years democrats whined and carped about our foreign policy. We were supporting dictators who were evil and hurting their people while serving our interests. And we were imperialists! They want us all to forget how Reagan fought the Soviet Union and how they apologized for that regime. Even now history is being rewritten. Every move republicans made was second guessed and the names they used to describe the soldiers who fought in the varied conflicts were awesome. Lies were told about every war by people like Obama.
Iraq is the latest and one of the best examples for leftist liars. They try to inflate the cost of the wars. Ritmo is here using his own made up numbers. But the biggest lies are the best ones. No mention how the Brits just got done helping the Iraqis finish destroying the rest of the chemical and biological programs in Iraq. And no mention of the origin of the weapons Assad is using on his people. Lies about how many civilians died, counting suicide bombers and militants in the casualty numbers. And constantly taking every mistake and crime and smearing us all with it.
And this thread Ritmo flings his lies out there like candy. We remember slimebag.
So R&B, Hombre says you're an intellectually limited troll and your answer is a lot of sexual innuendo with a gay sex slur theme. A very intellectual response, I for one am impressed!
"Anywhere in the world, whoever uses religion for political aims, or to benefit some and not others, will fall... You can't fool all the people all the time, let alone the Egyptian people who have a civilization that is thousands of years old, and who espouse clear, Arab nationalist thought."
It's rather galling when some authoritarian thug says things that make more sense than what the president of the United States says.
"...a gay sex slur theme. A very intellectual response, I for one am impressed!"
Glad you liked it! Last thing I wanted to do is surpass the thought content of hombre's extremely unintellectual insult. I know he'll appreciate me coming down to his limited level like that.
"For years democrats..."
...learned from their mistakes. Something that Republicans can't do when they revert to pontificating on history without any comment on what they might have actually learned from it.
The rounding up and arresting of the Brotherhood is very encouraging.
If Egypt is to ever get back a vibrant tourist industry, we all have to be convinced that the Brotherhood is sealed in a can.
Methadras, edutcher, traditionalguy:
Exactly. I wonder about the serial inconsistency of individuals and groups who adhere to a philosophy with selective (i.e. changing) principles. The discrepancies that are observed with their treatment of people and nations in the Middle East and Africa is revealing.
I'm attempting to analyze the chaotic transformation which some people describe as consistent and even "fair". The best I can conclude is that it can be characterized with properties similar to atmospheric weather phenomenon, which literally follows the prevailing winds, and similar to climate phenomenon, which exhibits aperiodic recurrences of a typical behavior.
End the occupation of Egypt, I suppose.
Make love, not war, until a sovereign entity is deemed inconvenient to your material, physical, and egoistic desires.
Anyway, perhaps a less "enlightened" people will be capable of determining an appropriate compromise.
Whatever it is that the Egyptians in Tahrir Square don't like about the Muslim Brotherhood, it is obvious from their posters and signs that they're blaming it all on Obama.
In his arrogant stupidity, Obama has reaped a whirlwind.
Whatever it is that the Egyptians in Tahrir Square don't like about the Muslim Brotherhood, it is obvious from their posters and signs that they're blaming it all on Obama.
Apparently this form of "obviousness" is only discernible to FOX Nationals and other palm readers.
It's good to know that Republicans have gotten so bored of seriously discussing domestic concerns and criticisms that they've taken to making Obama the de facto leader of Egypt.
Wow. I checked into this thread, on one of the few posts Althouse has put up, on two of the most momentous events of the decade (Syria and Egypt)...only to find Ritzy Brazziere calling people fat and dick-suckers.
This place has really gone downhill.
Maybe you need another post calling your conservative commenters bigots, Althouse. It's been what, two days since one of those. Or you can pick out some commenter who's been here for 7+ years and tear him a new asshole for his lack of reading comprehension, while in multiple threads you have Ritzy admittedly purposefully misreading others and derailing threads.
What was once the best comments section on the Internet is devolving into a madhouse with inmates flinging shit at one another. But hey, those inmates won't be conservative bigots. They'll be enlightened leftists who call people dick-suckers (Ritzy), faggots (AReasonableMan), and call gay men "bitch" (Inga).O
Pastararian, this is a remarkably one-sided post. Why don't you call out edutcher, PMJ and Jay? They repeatedly abuse any non FOX-approved right thinker in thread after thread even when the threads are largely apolitical. They are the ones that degrade the discourse on this site. A little balance on your part would be helpful. Edutcher may have posted here for 7+ years but I doubt that you can point to one original thought that he has posted in all that time.
Isn't it a bit disingenuous to suggest that the current Egyptian civilization is thousands of years old?
Edutcher may have posted here for 7+ years but I doubt that you can point to one original thought that he has posted in all that time.
That is a remarkably one-sided comment.
Scott M said...
That is a remarkably one-sided comment.
I am open to debate on this. Given that he posts 50-100 times a day it shouldn't be difficult to find one post that deviates from right-wing orthodoxy, if one exists.
I don't consider myself clever enough to criticize edutcher for a lack of creativity. I will say that he's almost always on topic, his stands on issues are consistent, and he didn't deserve to be berated.
Jay will sometimes open with a personal jab, but on substance, he's a very good commenter.
There are a few crazies here on the right. You'll have that in any group of people this large. There must be something like 500 regular commenters here, about 400 of whom are either conservative, libertarian, or something in between.
We also have some obvious mobies here, all leftists posing as conservatives.
You're one of the better leftist commenters, ARM. You only occasionally act like an asshole. Ritzy could be a good one, but he chooses to drag discussions into slap-fights, and he's admitted this. Inga is useless, and contributes nothing but "Good one, some feller!", underhanded insults, and self-righteousness when others respond in kind.
There are a lot of good conservative commenters that don't comment as often as they once did, and the place is poorer for it, and I don't think Althouse's apparent disdain for these people has helped.
ARM is the very definition of a mumpsimus. As is Inga. R&B is simply disturbed.
And now the Brotherhood's trying to rally their own base for protests. The cynical part of me wonders if the news reporting profession will understand the difference between the grass roots movements and the astroturf'd ones.
Pastafarian said...
You only occasionally act like an asshole.
Which would make me a regular human being.
There are a lot of good conservative commenters that don't comment as often as they once did, and the place is poorer for it, and I don't think Althouse's apparent disdain for these people has helped.
Other than abortion and gay marriage Althouse is very solicitous of her right wing posters. Althouse has attacked left-wing posters including myself when I have expressed incredulity over one or the other conspiracy theory. In the particular case of edutcher I thing you are wrong because his comments are so voluminous that the obscure any sensible arguments.
As a general principle a better balance between right and left leaning posters would be a good thing in terms of producing a more reasoned debate.
Michael said...
ARM is the very definition of a mumpsimus.
Exhibit #1,273,963 in name calling rather than reasoned debate, albeit a somewhat novel name.
I am always surprised at the magical thinking that goes on in debates about the middle east. The US has very little influence on the internal dynamics of these countries. The clearest evidence of this is Iraq. We invested more than a trillion dollars and thousands of lives and the place is no better now than it was before the war, by some metrics worse.
"Pastafarian said...
There are a lot of good conservative commenters that don't comment as often as they once did, and the place is poorer for it, and I don't think Althouse's apparent disdain for these people has helped."
That's been going on for a while. I remember back when SippicanCottage decided to leave. That was years ago. But this sort of thing always happens to forums. I hate it, but the unfortunate truth is that the internet is as open to idiots as it is to thoughtful people. Sometimes the best choice is to just ignore them, but some people choose not to do that.
I am always surprised at the magical thinking that goes on in debates about the middle east. The US has very little influence on the internal dynamics of these countries. "
And yet Hanoi Kerry spends all his time trying to bring the Jewish-Arab peace. I guess he is just an idiot.
And btw, speaking of idiots, Obama is much nicer to,Islamists like Erdogan and Morsi than a secular and pro-western bibi Netanyahu. Why?
"The clearest evidence of this is Iraq. We invested more than a trillion dollars and thousands of lives and the place is no better now than it was before the war, by some metrics worse."
You are th first one to claim that sad dam Hussein is no worse than today's Iraqi president.
Hyphenated American said...
You are th first one to claim that sad dam Hussein is no worse than today's Iraqi president.
But, as usual, that is not what I said. The violent death rate is much higher, bad for Iraqi's. The government is pro-Shia pro-Iran, bad for us. The government is looking increasingly like a dictatorship, bad for democracy.
ARM - you make some claims as to violent crimes in Iraq today. On what factual evidence do you base that claim?
Surprised that Pastie made his getaway as quick as he did his entrance, ARM? I'm not. Plead as he does for honest, special treatment as a prelude to a decent debate, he never seems to recognize the main course. It's all just about "Respect me! Respect me! Respect me!" and no matter how nicely you tell him anything, he'll still refuse to engage on any single substantive point made - which one presumes is the whole purpose of all this.
He is the expensive perpetual cock-tease of our nation's political dialogue. And there are many more like him. They all expect to be treated like princesses, no matter how much they withhold of something so simple as a cogent point.
Say hello to the beauty queens of American political discourse. Nothing to offer, but please buy them flowers and tell them how beautiful they are!
Kudos to you for still trying, though. I suppose the silence they can only offer in return is enough of a confirmation of what we're all saying.
" The violent death rate is much higher, bad for Iraqi's"
Do you include the death of 500,000 Iraqi children due to sanctions, as per comrade Madeline Halfbright?
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