२३ जून, २०१३

"Snowden has ticket to Cuba, may go to Venezuela: Russian reports."

Put that into your conspiracy theory.

UPDATE: Email from CNN: "Edward Snowden, the man wanted on U.S. espionage charges, has arrived in Moscow, WikiLeaks said in a Twitter post on Sunday. The organization has said it helped Snowden leave Hong Kong, but it has not revealed what country could be his final destination."

May I recommend — for publicity purposes — hopping across the steppingstones of the world, hitting each traditional or present Enemy of America?

ADDED:
Flew in from Hong Kong thanks to Wikileaks
Didn't get to bed last night
In my head I heard conspiracy theory freaks
Man, I had a dreadful flight
I'm back in the USSR
You don't know how lucky you are, boy
Back in the USSR, yeah 

९८ टिप्पण्या:

madAsHell म्हणाले...

I'm going with Hillary....

"At this point, what difference does it make?"

अनामित म्हणाले...

The Phillip Agee of this generation.

edutcher म्हणाले...

Vlad: I know, I will make him look like fool I have seen him to be.

Choom: Doot do do do doot.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

The great thing about Aeroflot equipment is that while it may be primitive, it doesn't need all the parts working.

Astro म्हणाले...

As I commented last week, let's not make Snowden the story. I don't care where he is or what he's doing now.
The story is about what the NSA has been doing.

Nomennovum म्हणाले...

I admire Snowden in a certain way.

He has a very hot stripper girlfriend free of charge.

As for his giving away state secrets, well, to the extent it hurts our nation, Choom doesn't care. To the extent Snowden's treason and Hong Kong/China's nose-thumbing embarrass the jug-eared motherfucker, said motherfucker cares greatly. To the extent it hinders Barry's spying on real enemies -- that is, conservative US citizens and organizations -- he apoplectic.

edutcher म्हणाले...

I guess Moochelle should have made kissy-face with the Red Chinese First Lady, no matter how gorgeous she (RCFL) is.

अनामित म्हणाले...

He must have been in a conspiracy with Sean Penn or a bunch of other Hollywood leftists.

lemondog म्हणाले...

The story is about what the NSA has been doing.

True nuff.

Even Pelosi was dumped on...
Pelosi booed by activists after criticizing leaker Edward Snowden

oowwweee

Paco Wové म्हणाले...

Cuba Venezuela Russia

Paragons of human liberty, all.

Nomennovum म्हणाले...

If I had to flee to a third world communist shithole, Cuba would be my first choice. The climate is so much nicer than, say, Detroit.

ricpic म्हणाले...

What happened to Iceland?

Icepick म्हणाले...

Paragons of human liberty, all.

Hey, none of them are tracking my every digital interaction. That's reserved solely for Uncle Sam.

Nomennovum म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
Nomennovum म्हणाले...

Ah, I see from your update, Snowden went to Russia. Not a bad choice, if you don't mind long and bad winters. The place doesn't really qualify as "third world," "communist," or even "shithole." And the women are considerably better-looking than the typical American porker. Many look just like Snowden's hot stripper girlfriend that he left behind.

(He left her behind, right? Strippers are crazy.)

Lem Vibe Bandit म्हणाले...

I hope he is up for the feeling of being used... the way he used everybody for his own ends.

edutcher म्हणाले...

Nomennovum said...

Ah, I see from your update, Snowden went to Russia. Not a bad choice, if you don't mind long and bad winters. The place doesn't really qualify as "third world," "communist," or even "shithole." And the women are considerably better-looking than the typical American porker. Many look just like Snowden's hot stripper girlfriend that he left behind.

(He left her behind, right? Strippers are crazy.)


No, you go down to Yalta and it's nice all year round.

(I worked with a woman from there and, when we'd kid her about Cold Russian Vinter, she laughed and rolled her eyes.)

edutcher म्हणाले...

PS He didn't just leave her behind, he left her smile, her pole...

lemondog म्हणाले...

Snowden will undergo dramatic plastic surgery and fingerprint alteration.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

What you want is a friendly girlfriend, not a hot girlfriend.

That's probably what Snowden found out.

Nomennovum म्हणाले...

Edutcher, my thoughts exactly. Yalta was the USSR's Miami Beach, if a tad chillier in winter. Call it the totalitarians' Virginia Beach.

But isn't it in Ukraine? In any event, Russia certainly holds sway there.

edutcher म्हणाले...

lemondog said...

Snowden will undergo dramatic plastic surgery and fingerprint alteration.

No, but after Vlad makes sure his brain is washed squeaky clean, he'll be pensioned off to a dacha in the Crimea where he can watch the Poles dance.

Nomennovum म्हणाले...

What you want is a friendly girlfriend, not a hot girlfriend.

Sorry, but like the feminists, I want it all.

Douglas B. Levene म्हणाले...

The US Air Force should intercept whatever plane he's on and force it to land on US soil (or a friendly country) somewhere. Who's going to complain and who cares if they do? Remember, an illegal arrest is not a defense to a criminal charge.

Lem Vibe Bandit म्हणाले...

Rh lol

अनामित म्हणाले...

Re:
"Flew in from Hong Kong thanks to Wikileaks
Didn't get to bed last night
In my head I heard conspiracy theory freaks
Man, I had a dreadful flight
I'm back in the USSR
You don't know how lucky you are, boy
Back in the USSR, yeah"

He Had a Ticket to Ride.

On Aeroflot.

Only a Stop-Over in Russia?

Day Tripper.

edutcher म्हणाले...

Douglas said...

The US Air Force should intercept whatever plane he's on and force it to land on US soil (or a friendly country) somewhere. Who's going to complain and who cares if they do? Remember, an illegal arrest is not a defense to a criminal charge.

The Aeroflot flight is probably Hong Kong to Russia (maybe Vladivostok) over Red China.

I don't think Little Zero has the testosterone to pick a fight with either of those countries, let alone both.

Moochelle, maybe...

अनामित म्हणाले...

Snowden in America Again?

'You Won't See Me'

"When I Call You Up
Your Line's Engaged..
By the NSA"

Tim म्हणाले...

Focusing on Snowden is a distraction from the real issue:

"Our" government considers each one of us suspected terrorists.

There is no other explanation for the extensive monitoring of all of our electronic communications.

Eric the Fruit Bat म्हणाले...

The cool thing about Cuba is you can leave your shirttail out and still be well-dressed.

edutcher म्हणाले...

Tim said...

Focusing on Snowden is a distraction from the real issue:

"Our" government considers each one of us suspected terrorists.


Not "Our" government, the Choom Gang.

We haven't had a government since January 2009.

Paco Wové म्हणाले...

"There is no other explanation for the extensive monitoring"

I think an unwillingness to do the actual work of making judgements and accurately profiling likely terrorists and the groups they come from explains a lot of it. Similar to the sorts of policies that see bullies and the bullied both hauled to the principal, and the sorts of laws that get homeowners sent off to prison for shooting burglars.


अनामित म्हणाले...

"The White House ...gave a pointed warning to Hong Kong against delaying the process of returning him to face trial in the U.S."

Who the hell did he think he was giving "a pointed warning"? He requested tiny Hong Kong's help, and proceeded to kick them in the face.

"It ...said U.S. documentation did not "fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law."

Bravo!

Love little Hong Kong's giving the big bully a bloody nose. Love the Nobel laureate's "Smart Diplomacy" skill: couldn't persuade little Hong Kong to comply with a diplomatic request.

Wonder if it's the Teleprompter reading genius's way to prevent a trial on American soil? Wonder how far along is the Bully-in-Chief readying a drone kill of an American on foreign soil?

America's degeneration into a third world bully is complete.

Mogget म्हणाले...

LOL, clearly Mr. Obama is respected by the authorities in Hong King, China, and Russia. I knew it would take this turn.

edutcher म्हणाले...

As did we all.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

The massive surveillance is okay.

It's not based on suspicion but on having data in the future to go back to when something suspicious turns up, to trace out a whole network.

The problem is trusting it not to be used politically, once politicians control it.

My feeling is that at the moment it's controlled by military-mind types, nose to the grindstone.

But Obama is appointing new agency heads. There's the problem.

Tim म्हणाले...

"I think an unwillingness to do the actual work of making judgements and accurately profiling likely terrorists and the groups they come from explains a lot of it. Similar to the sorts of policies that see bullies and the bullied both hauled to the principal, and the sorts of laws that get homeowners sent off to prison for shooting burglars."

That's part of it, but not the essence of it.

Monitoring all of our communications isn't easier than monitoring, say, those who associate with a radical Imam or who are in electronic communication with terrorist or terrorist affiliated groups.

Yes, monitoring obvious groups requires a certain wisdom, political fortitude and clarity of principle and purpose Western Civilization is increasingly incapable of, with the Left in the vanguard, but in the end, it is just easier for them to consider all of us terror threats - e.g. Napolitano's report on returning veterans and pro-life activist, of which she said "The document on right-wing extremism sent last week by this department’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis is one in an ongoing series of assessments to provide situational awareness to state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies on the phenomenon and trends of violent radicalization in the United States."

This NSA action is the rational result of that policy.

We are all suspected terrorists.

Aridog म्हणाले...

Astro said...

As I commented last week, let's not make Snowden the story ...

Oh, my [vapors coming on], you MUST make him the story. It is so convenient to hide the other couple dozen significant scandals. Worry worry worry what wee little needle dick the bug fucker Eduard is up to next.

Pay no mind to the string of senior leaders testifying before Congress with "I donno," I can't recall," "No...not wittingly," "least untruthfull...," "At this point in time what difference does it make?!", "I take the 5th," so on and so forth.

You know the NSA can read anything it wants, even if the database initially corrals mere metadata ...but something is gloriously fucked up when it can't predict Boston, or Snowden hissef. Hello? Does anyone think for a millisecond he just up did it all on a spur of the moment, with no calls and advance planning, discussions with others, etc?

Tim म्हणाले...

"The problem is trusting it not to be used politically, once politicians control it."

No, that's not the only problem.

They can order the service providers, even pass a law to ensure it happens, to keep the information themselves for a reasonable period - five years, ten years, before destroying it.

And, once a suspect comes to their attention, they send a demand for all the information related to that suspect, and then, once received, do actual police and intelligence work related to the suspect.

The aren't doing that, even though it is simpler and cheaper.

Instead, they are tracking my emails and internet activity because, at root, they suspect I (and you, and everyone we know) might possibly be terrorists.

Clyde म्हणाले...

If he shows up in Pyongyang, we'll know he really is a bad dude.

rhhardin म्हणाले...

They can order the service providers, even pass a law to ensure it happens, to keep the information themselves for a reasonable period - five years, ten years, before destroying it.


The point of these huge data centers is to take over the job of storing it, which the providers were not in the business of doing. Okay, we'll store it, in other words.

They don't suspect you do being a terrorist. It's easier to store everything and come back to what there's a reason to come back to, when clues are obvious.

They only follow fruitful clues because it's costly to follow clues.

It's like surveilance cameras. You don't suspect the trees of anything, but if something's stolen, you go back to the tapes and see what was up around then.

Tim म्हणाले...


Even before a former U.S. intelligence contractor exposed the secret collection of Americans’ phone records, the Obama administration was pressing a government-wide crackdown on security threats that requires federal employees to keep closer tabs on their co-workers and exhorts managers to punish those who fail to report their suspicions.

Aridog म्हणाले...

rhhardin said ...

My feeling is that at the moment it's controlled by military-mind types, nose to the grindstone.

The leading generals may still be in uniform, but certainly are not nose to the grindstone military types. It has never ever been more necessary for flag rank to be politicized that it is today.

Snowden had absurd access and he was not in uniform, a military wash-out essentially.

Tim said ...

... Napolitano's report on returning veterans and pro-life activist, ... this department's Office of Intelligence and Analysis is one in an ongoing series of assessments to provide situational awareness to state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies on the phenomenon and trends of violent radicalization in the United States.

Fat Janet is not military or even close to it. She is however an example of how policy is set these days.

And you're right...it points to classifying all of us as potential terrorists. So much easier than having real evidence.

I'm pretty sure actual military nose to grindstone types did not dream this DHS activity up.

Aridog म्हणाले...

Tim said ...

... requires federal employees to keep closer tabs on their co-workers and exhorts managers to punish those who fail to report their suspicions.

Bwahahaha. That'd be the new whistle-blower rules.

Tim म्हणाले...

"The point of these huge data centers is to take over the job of storing it, which the providers were not in the business of doing. Okay, we'll store it, in other words."

Except, they have been storing it, for their own purposes, and there's no information to the contrary. I'd like to see it, if there is.

As for CCTVs, they don't usually keep video for more than a week or so (if even that) - video storage being so much physically larger than just "meta-data," so I'm not so worried about that, now (until they find ways to dramatically compress video data - which they will).

And I will agree with you the larger issue is trust - but I'd differ in that the permanent government, of unelected, un-fireable bureaucrats, have their own political agendas (remarkably consistent with the Democrats) that tend to outlast the transitory needs of a politician living from one election to the next. It isn't an accident the security state has done nothing but grow since Dec. 7, 1941.

Browndog म्हणाले...

It's easier to store everything...

Recently, in light of the Snowden event, intelligence official were hauled in front of the sub-committee.

Two different officials gave two different answers on two different days.

Hey, why are you guy spying on everyone?

One said: When you're looking for a needle in a hay stack, first you need a hay stack.

The other: You gotta start somewhere.

To some, I guess, this makes perfect sense.

To me, I don't want anyone who thinks this way in charge of finding terrorists....or anything for that matter.

अनामित म्हणाले...

Tim: Yes, monitoring obvious groups requires a certain wisdom, political fortitude and clarity of principle and purpose Western Civilization is increasingly incapable of, with the Left in the vanguard,...

The PTBs, right or left, have long since detached themselves from any notion of civilizational (or merely national) pietas or loyalty, so this is inevitably where they end up. The malice of the left provides it with some measure of organization and direction, the "right" will throw around the massive weight of the state apparatus with little idea of any goal or purpose but the maintenance of the apparatus itself.

...but in the end, it is just easier for them to consider all of us terror threats - e.g. Napolitano's report on returning veterans and pro-life activist, of which she said "The document on right-wing extremism sent last week by this department’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis is one in an ongoing series of assessments to provide situational awareness to state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies on the phenomenon and trends of violent radicalization in the United States."

Would that the American people had but one neck!

edutcher म्हणाले...

Interesting Big Sis has been able to stay out of the Scandalabra so far, although I fear it won't last.

Turns out the New RINO AmnestyCare lets Big Sis decide if the border fence is built.

Aridog म्हणाले...

Tim said ...

... the permanent government, of unelected, un-fireable bureaucrats, have their own political agendas (remarkably consistent with the Democrats) that tend to outlast the transitory needs of a politician living from one election to the next.

Good summary of my comments going back over a year about the "institutionalized government" that merely runs a different flag up the pole after elections, as necessary, but continues with their own personal agendas unimpeded. These people never ever leave the confines of what I call the "public or private beltway circle" ...they just slither around in it.

Oh, and ... SES and above can be fired...they are appointed positions, but they're seldom fired because they have accumulated dirt on their superiors. Lois Lerner, thy name is "can of worms"...and her bosses know it. Thus what you say is true in effect [un-fireable], just not systemically...but politically.

GS grade civil servants can be fired as well, for cause if a manager has the guts and patience to do so. It helps if said boss has not been malfeasant him or her-self, thus able to be extorted by their subordinates. Again, all too often, the GS graded manager either hasn't the patience, or time, or the disposition, to discharge a flagrant jackass...thus they usually get a "transfer" and become some one else's problem. Similar in the military too...on that topic, think Major Nidal Hassan ... useless unqualified Medical Corp Captain at Walter Reed...promoted to Major and transferred to Fort Hood.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

CNN has reported that Snowden is now in Moscow.

Alan Dershowitz pointed out that the Obama administration blundered in charging Snowden with espionage, since that makes it easier for foreign countries to offer him asylum. I see this as a win-win for Putin. He humiliates Barack Obama and his FSB (successor to the KGB) can quietly and gently pick the brain of someone from inside the NSA, learning about the American electronic espionage capabilities -- and perhaps how to defeat them.

jr565 म्हणाले...

He's going to all the communist countries because that's where his heart is at. And all the libertarians defending this guy are there too.
No conservatives, they.

jr565 म्हणाले...

Libertarians are getting in bed wit Code Pink. Conservatives/Republicans should not join them.
For libertarians who think they will get along with the liberals though, how did that whole liberaltarian experiment workout?

jr565 म्हणाले...

lemondog wrote:
True nuff.

Even Pelosi was dumped on...
Pelosi booed by activists after criticizing leaker Edward Snowden

oowwweee

The same wackos that booed Bush. And libertarians are those same wackos.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

America's degeneration into a third world bully is complete.

Reminds me of a joke Ronald Reagan told.

jr565 म्हणाले...

Valerie Plame says that America shoudl thank Snowden and Clapper should resign.

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/#r/archive/segment/valerie-plame-americans-should-thank-snowden-clapper-should-resign/51c1e13f78c90a474a000195

Again, be careful who you get in bed with conservatives.

Browndog म्हणाले...

Suddenly, without warning, all these communist countries--China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela--are hostile to America??

It's the first I've heard of this in the age of Obama...

"I wasn't aware of this until I read it in the papers today"
-Barack Obama

"me neither!"
-Joe Biden

"As Sec. of State, I wasn't made aware of this either. That's why we need a woman President."

Achilles म्हणाले...

jr565 said...
He's going to all the communist countries because that's where his heart is at. And all the libertarians defending this guy are there too.
No conservatives, they.

6/23/13, 11:16 AM

Bullshit. And you know it too.

Big Mike म्हणाले...

Put that into your conspiracy theory.

I already did at 11:15. Alan Dershowitz -- you may have heard of him, Professor? -- already explained why this administration made it easy for Snowden and Putin alike.

Browndog म्हणाले...

jr565 said...

As leader of what conservatives are allowed to think...

..I await your orders. Sir.

Tim म्हणाले...

"Bwahahaha. That'd be the new whistle-blower rules."

That, and "Big Brother" was first "little Brother;" he had to start somewhere. Internally is the easiest, safest bet.

edutcher म्हणाले...

Achilles said...

He's going to all the communist countries because that's where his heart is at. And all the libertarians defending this guy are there too.
No conservatives, they.


Bullshit. And you know it too.


There are such things as Conservative Libertarians and I think that's what Achilles means, but I fear a great many "Libertarians" are just Lefties who don't feel a bit of guilt when it comes to keeping their own money from the government.

edutcher म्हणाले...

PS In the you-can't-make-this-up department:

Chuckie Schumer is threatening Vlad with "serious consequences" for harboring Snowden.

What's he gonna do, send 35 million Mexicans over the border into Russia?

Y'know, picking a fight with Vlad is not like picking a fight with Choom...

Rusty म्हणाले...

Boy. Is he in for a rude awakening.

Cedarford म्हणाले...

JR565 is right. Libertarians are geting in bed with some real winners lately.

1. The scumbag Nakoula who declared he wanted to provoke Muslims into killing and harming Americans. Caught with 6 forged passports and thrown back in jail off probation (In CA, 1/3rd of new jail arrivals are probees that fucked up). Nakoula, the Noble 1st Amendment Hero.

2. Any Wall Street billionare that offers a flat tax proposal through the libertarian institutes he helps fund and steer where he pays 18% and you pay 18% on your 30K a year menial job with no deductions. Libertarians love that shit. Huge tax increase for the working poor, a freedom-loving windfall for billionaires.

3. Manning and Snowden. Traitors or heroic freedom-lovers! and defenders of the Sacred Parchment? Libertarians love 'em, even if they have been offered sanctuary by our enemies.

4. Ron Paul in bed with La Raza, calling for liberty and Open Borders.

5. Rand Paul sleeping with the hardcore Jewish leftist lawyers in demanding that we not target "technically" American citizens now wholely loyal to Al Qaeda - and now overseas trying to kill us in sanctuaries Rands precious "arrest warrants" are laughed at.

lemondog म्हणाले...

re: Schumer, Putin scared

edutcher म्हणाले...

This is sooo cool, I mean where's Solo and Kuryakin when you need them?

Snowden can't leave the airport without a visa, so he'll be staying at the airport hotel.

PS Check out Snowden's lawyer and "traveling companion".

This all so Kennedy Administration.

jr565 म्हणाले...

edutcher wrote:
There are such things as Conservative Libertarians and I think that's what Achilles means, but I fear a great many "Libertarians" are just Lefties who don't feel a bit of guilt when it comes to keeping their own money from the government.

Exactly! Have you looked at Ron Pauls foreign policy? That is so far left it's to the left of Code Pink. Libertarians are just greedy lefties.

jr565 म्हणाले...

Libertarians are conservatives weird cousin who you vouch for beacause he's your cousin, even though you know that but for him being your cousin you'd probably lump him in with your enemies.

jr565 म्हणाले...

And all life decisions are tradeoffs. But conservatives should not make the trade off of becoming the left on foreign policy simply because Ron/Rand Paul has some interesting economic ideas that you might agree with.

And even those economic ideas, while good in the abstract would probably never work in reality, since they are based on absolutism and not reality which requires that tradeoff between absolute principles and reality.

edutcher म्हणाले...
ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.
jr565 म्हणाले...

Wikileaks is now assisting fugitives escape justice.They should not be treated as a news organization.

edutcher म्हणाले...

jr565 said...

Libertarians are conservatives weird cousin who you vouch for beacause he's your cousin, even though you know that but for him being your cousin you'd probably lump him in with your enemies.

No, you take them as they make themselves known as evaluate what they say and do.

Some I trust, some I don't.

jr565 म्हणाले...

There are such things as Conservative Libertarians and I think that's what Achilles means, but I fear a great many "Libertarians" are just Lefties who don't feel a bit of guilt when it comes to keeping their own money from the government.

Bill Maher is a great example of that. At one point he identified as libertarian. But would anyone say he isn't a lefty? He just has a problem paying high taxes. (of course he has no problem getting on board the lefty bandwagon villifying the rich and saying they have to pay their fair share).

अनामित म्हणाले...

"Libertarians are getting in bed wit Code Pink. Conservatives/Republicans should not join them.
For libertarians who think they will get along with the liberals though, how did that whole liberaltarian experiment workout?"

6/23/13, 11:18 AM

Jr. It's a mixed up, messed up political world out there, LOL.

Cedarford, I agree with your entire comment until number 5, "Jewish lawyers".

William म्हणाले...

What's the over/under on Iceland vs Venezuela. My money would be on a country that actively dislikes the USA and wants to embarrass it.....Many pole dancers break up with their boyfriends. But none get million dollar book deals. If I could pick one unequivocal winner out of this mess, it would be the girl friend.

edutcher म्हणाले...

Does Venezuela have the same cachet now that Hugo's gone?

Frankly, I'll be surprised if he leaves Russia.

jr565 म्हणाले...

edutcher wrote:

No, you take them as they make themselves known as evaluate what they say and do.

Some I trust, some I don't.


I agree. I shouldn't lump ALL libertarians into one group. But I think many/most of the libertarians i argue with are in fact leftists, especially on the internet.
Take in point The Tea Party. I want to be supportive of the Tea party, and certainly I'm more supportive of the Tea Party than say Obama's redistribution society.
But then I hear people who are tea partiers supporting people like Snowden and I have to wonder who I'm getting in bed with.

I always liked Sarah Palin. And she's come out in some support of Snowden revealing this information. But she was also supportive of Bush's war on Terror. and Bush's covert NSA program. ANd I can imagine, when the Times leaked that she probably had some harsh words for the Times and those leakers who revealed that info. And yet now she's on Snowden's side.
She was this close to being VP. If she was in the White House her and Mccain would have continued the NSA program because those would be the tools used to combat terrorism (not the only tools, but one of the tools of their arsenal). She would not be supporting a Snowden leaking that program under her watch.
So, again, lets not become hypocrites following the libertarians when they are lefties at heart in many cases. I don't carry water for lefties. And if the conservatives start adopting Code Pink as their allies, then there is something wrong going on.

अनामित म्हणाले...

Yup, so right, we dodged a bullet in a Sarah Palin VP. Whew!

jr565 म्हणाले...

One of the reasons I stopped being a democrat was because of the Iraq war. Too many hypocrites piling on Bush saying he lied (and people died) when only one administration previous we had a whole history of the previous administration acting in accordance with the belief that Iraq was the enemy that needed to be contained and was refusing to comply. After hearing that shit for close to 8 years, to have democrats turn on a dime and pretend that history didn't occur, was the height of hypocricy and arrogance. I couldn't give a vote to democrats ever again.
But I'm starting to see that with some libertarians/republicans now. Piling on to attack the NSA program. The program started under Bush by the way which most conservatives at any rate supported. Because they were the party of defense (as opposed to the weenie lefties who were saying we should negotiate with dictators without preconditions, or who blamed America for causing terrorism. (think Robert Cooke and anything he might utter on these boards for an example).
The same potential for abuse was available under Bush's NSA program, and would be there under Ronal Reagan's (or whatever ideal conseravative president we could bring up)NSA program. Granted he dind't have an NSA program the way we do today, but then agian, there were no cell phones when Reagan was president. Nor was there an Al Qaeda, nor a 9/11.Yet we had a monitoring program that monitored our enemies. How do we know it wasn't being abused?

jr565 म्हणाले...

Inga wrote:
Yup, so right, we dodged a bullet in a Sarah Palin VP. Whew!

Well she didn't come out and say "I Support Snowden leaking programs". Rather it was arguing about the lack of trust of this adminstration. And Inga, she has a point. Because this administration has been one of the worst, in terms of politicizing disagreement and targeting it's enemies of any I've seen.
That being said, some libertarians are going too far and questioning the validity of an NSA style program in itself. Palin, and the other Tea Partiers have to be VERY careful not to go to the other side on this.
I think Palin has been better than Say Rand Paul on this. I still like Palin, I like Rand Paul less and less. But, she has to be careful in threading that line.

jr565 म्हणाले...

That being said, some libertarians are going too far and questioning the validity of an NSA style program in itself. Palin, and the other Tea Partiers have to be VERY careful not to go to the other side on this.

To restate. Libertarians can make the argument, since they are at heart lefties. I expect them to side with Code Pink on foreign policy. Conservatives, who agree with libertarians on econmics should not get in bed with them on foreign policy simply because they agree with them on fiscal matters.

jr565 म्हणाले...

We simply have to know if people like Palin are Libertarians in the true sense, or conservatives with libertarian streaks. If they are the former, they will NEVER get my vote.

jr565 म्हणाले...

Are tea partiers for limited govt, strong defense, reigning in excess spending, having a free market (but one with some degree of regulation)low taxes, but not no taxes.

Or are the Tea Party the group that wants to abolish govt, have the Ron Paul foreign policy in place.

If the former, then I'd be supportive. If the latter, then my choice is oppressive govt versus anarchy?

Grandma म्हणाले...

Tim at 10:35, re pp4:
And they called me Chickn Little on 2 18 2o11--duck duck n go to huffpro n pic w Jobs, the0, et al..

"...on how to win the future...."
Riiiiiight.

Peace be with y'all!

TmjUtah म्हणाले...

If Snowden was bent on punching some "Enemies of America List" he could have just skipped the pikers and gone to the White House.

Humperdink म्हणाले...

What great theater this has become. Snowden's 15 minutes of fame has ballooned. OJ's white Bronco ride on an international scale. Even Dershowitz is on board for the ride.

Choom has had so many fingers poked in his eyes, it's a wonder he can see at all. The TOTUS will be braille for a few weeks.

Humperdink म्हणाले...

"in braille"

Freeman Hunt म्हणाले...

Putin is spending a happy afternoon in contemplation of what he might trade him for.

edutcher म्हणाले...

Inga said...

Yup, so right, we dodged a bullet in a Sarah Palin VP. Whew!

No, President Palin (I'm betting McCain wouldn't have lasted his first term) would be proving we ducked a bullet not letting in the Choom Gang.

jr565 म्हणाले...

INga wroet:

"Yup, so right, we dodged a bullet in a Sarah Palin VP. Whew!"

We dodged a bullet but got hit by a drone strike. Which is worse?
Especially for someone who is supposedly against the NSA style surveillance programs. How has Obama been on implementing the police state that liberals were so against when Bush was doing it?

अनामित म्हणाले...

Let's see, it's a choice of incarceration in a US jail never seeing the light of day except to go to court or an exile in a country where you can have a life and some freedom of movement.

अनामित म्हणाले...

Regardless of where he goes, he won't live a long life.

Aridog म्हणाले...

According to some pundits, Snowden arrived in Moscow but was separated from his luggage, belongings, and 4 laptops, while in his "in transit" status at the airport hotel. By now you can figure the Russians have 100% of whatever he had on those laptops. Seems likely the Chinese downloaded everything as well during his stay in Hong Kong.

So what's next? More drama is about all there can be.

Freeman Hunt म्हणाले...

That has the makings of a movie. The hero poses as a whistleblower/traitor in order to hop around the globe to all of his countr's enemies so that they will all unknowingly download a supervirus from his computer.

ampersand म्हणाले...

I would like to hear Snowden say
"I AM INWINCIBLE!"

Big Mike म्हणाले...

Yup, so right, we dodged a bullet in a Sarah Palin VP. Whew!

Given his coarse mouth and unbelievably gaffe-laden remarks, I'd rephrase the above to "dodged a bullet in a Sarah Palin VP but got his with a howitzer in a Joe Biden VP."

Inga, sweetheart, ask your daughter to explain the phrase "shot at and missed but shit at and hit."

Mark म्हणाले...

Those Langley girls really knock me out
They leave the Fourth behind
And Utah girls make me sing and shout
Big Brother's always on my my my my my my my my my mind

Mark म्हणाले...

Exactly! Have you looked at Ron Pauls foreign policy? That is so far left it's to the left of Code Pink. Libertarians are just greedy lefties.

In a way it feels really good to be the Emmanuel Goldstein of the moment.