"You have a weight and balance issue because that many people moving around in an aircraft, you could have the plane potentially losing control and its very, very dangerous...."...
‘I don't see there being any reason why this should cause any trouble. We asked the staff and they said it was safe,’..."
१ मार्च, २०१३
"Aviation danger probe after EVERY passenger on flight leaps in the air at the same time..."
"... at 30,000ft for Harlem Shake flash mob."
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That's why they make xanax.
White folks don't even have the sense to steal stuff from other people when they do the flash mob thing.
They endanger their own lives instead.
Says it all.
You don't want them all going to the tail but otherwise it should be okay.
The dynamics go unstable if it's tail-heavy though, even if you don't stall the tail plane.
You get all the passengers jumping in the air at once in normal turbulence, all the time.
"Dude, Videotaping This Crime Spree Is The Best Idea We've Ever Had!"
Let's all get up and run to one side of the plane!
Rocky Mtn boho college, I'm not surprised in the least.
Meh.
The cool story is the one at the bottom of the linked page about the photographer being led around the world by his very nicely shaped girlfriend. Very well done. Young people living and loving, very much alive.
Just wait till Moochelle does it.
Faux Vibrancy!
Well, they were mostly white.
Montaigne probably had something to say about defining deviancy down.
From an evolutionary standpoint, if you're not on the savanna, all bets are off.
Shake, rattle and roll.
Must this be said: Not everything you see on the internet should be attempted at 30,000 feet?!
I'm a safety professional and this is why I'll always have a job!!!
A shame the plane didn't have bomb bay doors.
"that many people moving around in an aircraft, you could have the plane potentially losing control"
Sounds like the genius who said the island was so over built, it would tip over.
How loud was the music? Can you imagine being stuck in a crowded space like that with music blaring and people everywhere jumping about? And not being able to get away from it if you want to? Talk being a captive audience, if not participant!
I am completely without the knowledge and expertise to make a judgement as to whether this was a physically dangerous thing to do or not from an aeronautics (is that the word?) standpoint. I need neither to state that it was stupid and thoughtless. Plenty could go wrong regardless of whether the integrity of the flight itself was at risk or not, and I would have been furious had I been on that plane, in that enclosed space. Air travel is uncomfortable, unpleasant and intrusive enough as it is, for crying out loud.
Yes, as rhhardin said, this happens all the time in turbulence, and then it's everything on the plane, not just the passengers, so easily double the effect on the airframe. People who fly planes or other aircraft, get used to being weightless. When you are learning to fly and not even in possession of a pilot's license yet, you go up alone and practice this repeatedly.
That what blew me away in getting my license is that with just a few hours of flying experience, they give you a plane and let you fly alone over a city, practice stalls and other maneuvers, go cross country to a strange airport, and hopefully return with their plane. It's a wild and exciting experience, and it surprisingly almost never goes bad.
the folks at the FAA that felt this needed investigation are sequester candidates.
In general, I don't like those who make up their own rules and impose their actions on everyone else in (relatively) small and definitely confined spaces from which individuals can't remove themselves. This is why an antic like this is so offensive. Who the eff are these people to turn a commercial air flight into a sound/dance stage? There's youthful joie de vivre, and then there's dumb-assery.
Here's what the probe will conclude: The passengers were never in any danger, but this is a very dangerous practice, and should never be done again.
Now, I would like just 10% of what will be spent to determine that. I'm faster, with the identical result, and you need to save money. Call me.
Wouldn't it be great if there had been several babies and/or toddlers on the flight who started screaming in response and didn't let up until the plane touched down? Justice would demand that the instigators of this asininity be seated right next to the babies and toddlers and their harassed caregivers. What a marvelous example of self-expression that would be!
Colorado College has a Frisbee team?
Everybody joined in, so who's complaining. I doubt that the crew really minded either, and probably danced too.
The idea that everyone getting up would destabilized the plane seems a little crazy, and if true, then planes are crazy dangerous, and should be grounded in favor of zeppelins from now on.
"That was my Ultimate Frisbee team and a bunch of random people as well," 21-year-old senior team captain Dan Eppstein tells the Los Angeles Times about the episode. "Everyone who was on that flight joined in."
Eppstein says his group consulted with attendants before the performance, saying they gave students permission. He says the group also canvassed other passengers and said none objected.
The part that makes me say, "what?" - Steve Wallace, former director of the FAA's Office of Accident Investigation, disagreed in an interview with CNN.
"I think there is a safety issue here. Turbulence injuries are the most common type of injuries, and they are virtually eliminated when people are in their seat belts," he says to the news network.
He also suggested it could be used as a ruse by terrorists.
It's not as though they are all jumping in unison anyway - video
People behave!
I remember when I would have to put on a jacket and tie to fly with my parents. Now I see sweatpants and, dare I say it, shorts.
Between the time a man leaves diapers and the time he returns, no man should leave the house in shorts unless he is going to the gym or its over 80 outside.
People on planes should have some sensitivity about the anxieties some people have about flying on planes.
Whether this is actually dangerous or not, it's disturbing to anyone with a fear of flying (or claustrophobia).
Even just reading this story, before I looked at the video, I was saying out loud, I never want to get on an airplane again. Want to never fly again?
I won't vow to never fly again, but I'm avoiding it as much as possible.
It's not just that I visualize plane crashes (even though I realize they're quite unlikely). It's the degradation of being packed into a tube with so many people. It seems to me that a very high degree of courtesy is in order in that situation.
It's not a place for hijinks. Hijacks are worse. But still: no hijinks.
I surprised at how many fuddy-duddies there are commenting in this thread. I, for one, would welcome being on a flight like this. I wouldn't want them ALL like this, of course, but a relief from the monotony, a relief from this idea that plane flight is so different from every other endeavor that we must be poked, prodded, scanned, and herded like cattle, that would be very welcome.
I don't see any real danger. There's not enough room, physically, for everybody to go to one side of the plane or the other. If the plane can't handle a slight imbalance (the equivalent, I suppose, of putting all the fat people on the left side and all the skinny people on the right side), then they need a bigger margin of safety.
Moreover, I don't see any signs of fear or terror in the video. The newspaper report does not indicate that any passengers have complained. It appears that the only complaints are from officious FAA bureaucrats, the type who think that cell phones might cause a plane to crash.
Ann, you suggest that this is being imposed on the other passengers against their will. There's no evidence of that. For all we know from the article, the students asked their fellow passengers if any of them would object, and they all said they were fine with the idea. Certainly there's a number of non-students visible as active participants in the dance.
LIGHTEN UP, PEOPLE!
bpm....
the folks at the FAA that felt this needed investigation are sequester candidates.
Best comment winner.
Besides, it good practice for when the elevator starts crashing to ground because you have to jump just as it hits bottom.
"You have a weight and balance issue because that many people moving around in an aircraft, you could have the plane potentially losing control and its very, very dangerous,’ he said.
The actual spread of weight is very limited because people can't all physically go to one side or one end unless they purposely pile on top of each other.
rhhardin, PatHMV: You are both tragically wrong about the aircraft stability issue. There is a real danger, but only if
1) There are persons from the Warsaw area on board, and
2) too many of them are looking at scenery out the LEFT side of the aircraft.
(This humor brought to you gratis by the Mathematicians Can TOO Be Funny! committee.)
I'm a pilot, retired from a major airline. This is much ado about nothing.
I'm a pilot, retired from a major airline. This is much ado about nothing.
It would've pissed me off had I been on the plane. The whole flying experience is irritating enough without a bunch a assholes dancing all over you.
Between drinking corpse water, being swallowed by a sinkhole or having everyone on the plane do the Harlem Shake, I'll pick the last one. (I'd pick it over less dreadful options too. It looks like they were all having fun.)
I have never been in an airliner with enough room for all the passengers to stand up at the same time and be able to jump. Cargo planes,...them, neither.
I'm with the folks who find this not necessarily unsafe, but boorish and stupid.
Harlem Shake is awesome.
Tom said...
Must this be said: Not everything you see on the internet should be attempted at 30,000 feet?!
I'm a safety professional and this is why I'll always have a job!!!
The plane was already in flight. It's center of gravity was already determined on the runway before take off. If everyone crowded to the rear of the plane during flight, yes, you would have a shift in weight, but the considering the mechanics of powered jet flight are in play, they don't or won't make that much difference in the flight characteristics of the plane that the pilot couldn't handle quite easily.
If you look at the video, people are evenly distributed throughout the cabin. Yes, they are gyrating, but that level of gyroscopic movement isn't anywhere near enough to overcome the inertia or alter the momentum of that plane. In fact, I seriously doubt the pilots felt a thing.
Ann Althouse said...
People on planes should have some sensitivity about the anxieties some people have about flying on planes.
Whether this is actually dangerous or not, it's disturbing to anyone with a fear of flying (or claustrophobia).
Even just reading this story, before I looked at the video, I was saying out loud, I never want to get on an airplane again. Want to never fly again?
I won't vow to never fly again, but I'm avoiding it as much as possible.
It's not just that I visualize plane crashes (even though I realize they're quite unlikely). It's the degradation of being packed into a tube with so many people. It seems to me that a very high degree of courtesy is in order in that situation.
It's not a place for hijinks. Hijacks are worse. But still: no hijinks.
Ann, do you know how long it would take to coordinate the Harlem Shake. Not long. Also, there wasn't a single person that I saw or read about in the article that complained.
I surprised at how many fuddy-duddies there are commenting in this thread.
Confined space, Pat, confined space, without the ability for bystanders to remove themselves.
Think of "flash mob" in a different circumstance--say, a mall or park, for example--and then think of it in terms of this one. Bystanders can get away in the former examples, unlike in this one. They also aren't paying a large premium just to be present, unlike in this one.
Some folks are saying, "Lighten up"? That's fine. I say, "Grow up." Learn when and when not to impose, egregiously.
I keep seeing variations of, "No one complained."
Who cares about that? That's not the point, and nor should it be. Sometimes context, not a collective mob of caring or not caring, matters more. Think about it, please.
Also, hi, PatHMV!
I've always enjoyed your calm perspective and common-sense approach, in general--though not so much in this case. Hope you and yours are doing well (haven't run into you online for a quite a while).
Warm regards,
reader_iam
Sometimes this place sounds like a retirement home without the fun.
rcommal said...
I surprised at how many fuddy-duddies there are commenting in this thread.
Confined space, Pat, confined space, without the ability for bystanders to remove themselves.
Think of "flash mob" in a different circumstance--say, a mall or park, for example--and then think of it in terms of this one. Bystanders can get away in the former examples, unlike in this one. They also aren't paying a large premium just to be present, unlike in this one.
Some folks are saying, "Lighten up"? That's fine. I say, "Grow up." Learn when and when not to impose, egregiously.
3/1/13, 5:04 PM
Blogger rcommal said...
I keep seeing variations of, "No one complained."
Who cares about that? That's not the point, and nor should it be. Sometimes context, not a collective mob of caring or not caring, matters more. Think about it, please.
3/1/13, 5:07 PM
I have thought about it. I'm making a broader assumption that everyone on the flight was asked if they would like to participate or if they would be bothered by it. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, then I'm not sure why you are looking for a reason to keep shoving the stick up your butt even further. Sometimes fun is fun. y u so siruis?
Because some spaces, some contexts, require both more circumspection and seriousness (not to mention more--dare I speak word?--civility). That's why. Shoving a stick further up my butt, as you put it, is well worth standing by that principle, Methadras.
As for your (among others') assumption, I'm not speaking to it because I don't know whether it's valid or not and I don't actually have any way of determining that (not to mention determining the element of acquiescence [for whatever reason], as opposed to agreement, much less desire, much less preference). I think my point, the principle, stands alone for itself. I understand that you and others disagree. So be it.
***
Just for fun, though, what if even a single person on that flight objected but felt it safer to just go along? Or even just objected, but was just over ridden. (Remember, it's not as if that person could have just removed himself or herself.) Would that change your point of view? Should it?
rcommal said...
Because some spaces, some contexts, require both more circumspection and seriousness (not to mention more--dare I speak word?--civility). That's why. Shoving a stick further up my butt, as you put it, is well worth standing by that principle, Methadras.
Well, whatever keeps your back straight and your underwear from getting wedged. Have fun dying with a permanent scowl on your face.
Why, thank you, Methadras! I take and will take all good wishes however and wherever I find them. All best to you, in return--except that I hope you die both far from now and with a smile on your face. Seriously.
I drove 100mph down the road and nobody got hurt. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
I drove 100mph down the road and nobody got hurt. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
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