Passing a right-to-work law in Michigan comes as a deep blow to unions, especially in a state the United Auto Workers union calls home. They see right-to-work as political payback for unions' traditional support for Democrats.Check out the slide-show at the link, especially the view of the Capitol Rotunda at slide 4. Skimpy compared to the Wisconsin protests of 2011.
११ डिसेंबर, २०१२
"The Republican-led Michigan legislature approved a pair of right-to-work bills..."
"... sending them on for the governor's expected signature, as thousands of union activists continued protesting outside the state capitol."
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१३३ टिप्पण्या:
What does it say about unions if they can't survive without workers being forced to join?
Funny how they're not called right-to-undersell-the-competition bills.
Mitchell the Bat said...
Funny how they're not called right-to-undersell-the-competition bills.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Is the Bat referring to "the good old days" when the unions and the Government between them arranged for General Motors to be No.1, Ford to build and sell one year old Chevys for 50 dollars less, and Chrysler two year old Chevys for 50 dollars below Fords?
Skimpy perhaps but much more violent.
There is nothing to protest at this point. The vote was a fait accompli. Republicans acted swiftly.
The unions overplayed their hand in trying to amend the Michigan Constitution to enshrine unionism. They lost, giving the Republicans an opening to pass this legislation. Of course, Democrats can repeal it in a few years if they take power again.
Obama was in Michigan yesterday and gave the de rigeur rail against "right to work," something that was passed on a bi-partisan basis over Truman's veto in 1947.
The 2010 elections have consequences, including gerrymandering the state and federal representative districts. Now Indiana and Michigan, two rust belt states, are right to work, and dozens of states are refusing to expand Medicaid or set up federal exchanges under Obamacare. Obama won re-election, but he didn't win.
and "furrin" competition, except from Canada, since Canadian auto workers also belong to the UAW, severely discouraged?
They see right-to-work as political payback for unions' traditional support for Democrats.
Good. I wish we would see more of this sort of payback. There should be payback for the stupidity of blindly following Democrats down the primrose path, and dooming the very industries that put Michigan on the map.
Unions are valued like lawyers are valued. You hire one when you are abused. But a law that forces paying one when you are not being abused is the equivalent of an Established National Church.
The new law only removes the mandatory membership dues paid to work.
If the GOP overplays their hand the voters will put the Democrats back in. Remember Michigan is a deep blue state that loves their unions.
Just for fun, shall we make a list of groups who protested a practice (from which they financially benefited) whose time had come and gone?
Ooops, d=deborah.
Good. I wish we would see more of this sort of payback
Wave that fascist freak flag high brother! Wave on.
gm...
Wave that fascist freak flag high brother! Wave on.
That's what you do every day here Comrade.
Passing a right-to-work law in Michigan comes as a deep blow to unions...
I think I get it now.
If you are going-to-work and only if you are going-to-work, from now on, you can pass on the right... Its a deep blow to unions because they work by the side of the road... and if you have people speeding up to pass on the right, that leaves the unions, working by the side of the road, no alternative but to go "off the cliff".
Thats a blow alright.
Well, yeah, it is a response to Union political activism, especially in the public sector. However, it is also progress to remove distortions from the economy and government, including health care, which are then expected to be absorbed by businesses, employees, and taxpayers generally.
@mccullough: "There is nothing to protest at this point."
Maybe, but the Democrats and Unions (but I repeated myself) are already promising "Blood". So don't be surprised when progressives act as progressives usually do, violently and stupidly.
From founding the KKK after the civil war until today. Democrats are a violent and nasty bunch.
But of course they do it for the "greater good".
Hope and Change
They got some blood already; at least one person was physically assaulted, while unknown number of others were trapped in a tent that the protestors destroyed.
In fact, apparently, the assault was caught on tape.
Union busting. Stormtroopers. Chemical weapons. Nightsticks.
A GOP wet dream, all in one day!
Skimpy compared to the Wisconsin protests of 2011.
In fairness, it took a week or so to get the protests rolling in WI.
Michigan had 14 House seats up and Republicans won 9. The Governor is a Republican and so is the state legislature. But the state went for Obama because of an unbelievable turnout in Detroit. So Republicans have work to do in Michigan but it is not exactly what one thinks of as "deep blue." Rather the rural/suburban areas were outvoted by dysfunctional Detroit which is still collapsing. Under Obama's leadership, so far as he leads, the day will never come when Detroit leadership tries to exercise fiscal responsibility. But the day will come when Michigan as a whole will have to stabilize fiscally - the New Red Dawn.
Garage: People attacked other human beings. Many were *armed*. With *knives.*
The protest needs to be stopped, now. The protestors have shown they are not able to be responsible, non-violent human beings. I'm sorry, but once you start using weapons to attack others, yes. The police need to come in and not play nice anymore.
Garage: Are the police not supposed to maintain order? What is your objection to their presence, except that they may prevent the union violence? Especially since they obviously failed.
I object to the state forcing me to pay dues to an organization I disapprove of, and Garage calls ME a fascist?
These public employee union members are the dregs of the American political scene. No other group on either side so regularly engages in intimidation and violence. They are truly the lowest of the low, and the sooner we're rid of them the better off we'll all be.
Just watched the video of fat-assed ignorant Union thugs #1 and #2 beating on Steven Crowder. Those useless old pussies should rot in jail.
Hagar said...
Is the Bat referring to "the good old days" when the unions and the Government between them arranged for General Motors to be No.1, Ford to build and sell one year old Chevys for 50 dollars less, and Chrysler two year old Chevys for 50 dollars below Fords?
Hagar, I've been driving Detroit products since the middle 60s. In those days, neither Ford, nor Chrysler, ever made a car as good as a Chevy, even a two year old Chevy.
Professor- you often discard, applaud, caress, probe, linger on, explore and/or question words and language usage. What do you think about how the word "choice" has come to dominant our political landsdcape with school choice, pro abortion choice, choice to join or not join unions etc..
@Garage ...
Project much?
Seems to be a feature built into progressives. "We must be violent and kill them ... Because they maybe possible kinda are violent in my weird realistic hallucinations ... Those evil conservatives want to create camps of women forced to give birth and never have access to tampons. Now let's make them pay for us to kill our kids! FREEDOM! Hey! Stop drinking that sugary pop you evil capitalist."
It's only a matter of time before we get the firm hand of leadership from the President!
garage mahal said...
Wave that fascist freak flag high brother! Wave on.
You don't know jack shit about Michigan fatso, so you can shut up now.
Note that the resident fat dipshit can not bring himself to condemn the violence of the protestors.
Can't even acknowledge it, in fact.
(sort of) Blogger garage mahal said... Wave that fascist freak flag high brother! Wave on.
responding to Blogger Chief Mojo, who said, ""Good. I wish we would see more of this sort of payback"
Gabage? You obviously have a shallow view of what constitutes Fascism. I assure you, punishing assholes for their stupid political beliefs isn't fascist.
unions are against the right to work. that says it all.
American leftists love fascism:
"I proved this when to an American Government class at the height of the Cornell crisis I read some speeches analyzing the situation and calling for what ought to be done. The radicals in the class were enthusiastic until I revealed that the speeches were by Mussolini."
--Democracy and the Constitution, by Walter Berns
Is garage in a union?
It's like the same Pearl Harbor rhetoric coming out Michigan.
The bigger economic picture is lost in loyalty to group.
"But the state went for Obama because of an unbelievable turnout in Detroit."
Unbelievable is right. Detroit is a wasteland created by black politicians like Coleman Young and the wife of Congressman Conyers.
At least the city council is honest about it.
I went off the cliff... I cant view/scale the WSJ pay-wall.
They all look like Lions fans to me.
Small wonder they're pissed.
(I refer to the video that shows the assault of Crowder)
Its a good thing Meade decided not to go..
Or did he?
You don't know jack shit about Michigan fatso, so you can shut up now
Fascist teabags like you are the same in Michigan, Wisconsin, and everywhere else. Don't deny your heritage, it goes back a long ways.
They see right-to-work as political payback for unions' traditional support for Democrats.
When Republicans protect freedom of contract it's political payback. When Democrats force citizens to pay money to unions which supply money and manpower to elect Democrats it's standing on principle.
Fox News had a bit last night about those workers at Chrysler caught drinking and smoking pot on break being back on the payroll.
Union rules!
The thugs in the assault captured on video (currently up on Instanpundit) put an ugly, undeserving face on the union membership.
It will not play in Peoria.
chickelit "The thugs in the assault captured on video (currently up on Instanpundit) put an ugly, undeserving face on the union membership."
Would that it were so. But it isn't: union thuggery and intimidation are normal and routine.
the white hispanic union thug was wearing a t-shirt with a fist. looking for trouble.
Darn it, can't find it, one of the quotes from the union guys sounds like they're totally entitled to take over the state, citizens be damned.
And Garage is reduced to repeatedly hurling his "fascist!" spitball.
Truly, Garage is the Mortimer Snerd of the Althouse blog.
wildswan ... don't forget that the same turnout, in Detroit and across the state also rejected Proposition 2, and all the rest of the propositions both state and in Wayne County. They elected Obama by about 10% margin and they also rejected the scam propositions. It didn't take much to make the legislature realize the time was ripe, overdue actually given the agency shop affair vis a vis caretakers.
The Unions did it to themselves and now shout loudly to distract folks from that simple fact. Even Republican Governor Snyder was on their side until the Proposition 2 fandango...which is why you see signs say Snyder is a turncoat. He was okay with supporting work rules as they were, but not to a punk boy for SEIU dipwads now running the AFL-CIO.
Quick comparison...
Its ok for Obama to union bust the top 1%...
But when Michigan tries it... they are fascist?
So, GM, what do you call the citizens who voted all the union proposals down, the least by 52%?
Some of us may know nothing about Michigan, but maybe with the vote last month and the bitchslap, neither you nor the unions do, either.
garage mahal said...
Fascist teabags like you
Anyone else notice the left insists on exactness when defining socialism, but fascism means whatever they neeed it to mean that particular second. And this isn't just the nuts like our examples here. You'd think they'd notice the double standard and decide having an ounce of intellecual integrity was preferable, but apparently not.
I don't know, Garage, but if there's "fascism," in Lansing, it doesn't look like it is coming from the RTW supporters.
Or has the definition of fascism changed to supporting a policy, and working through the democratic process to pass it into law?
Althouse!!! Meade must go. Crowder got physically assaulted today. Check out the video over at Instapundit. This needs to be documented.
It's the pot talking, it didn't addle his sperm, it addled his brain.
Meade must go.
No matter how many Michigan papers he reads saying Snyder supported the unions until Prop 2, it'll never sink in or be the union's fault they overreached.
Snyder didn't want this. Sometimes elections do have consequences, like the new (temporary) $63 per employee charge for Obamacare to cover pre-existing conditions. It's in the new regs written.
KA-CHING
Garage you fat tub of goo,
You have been presented with video evidence of your union homeboys assaulting Steven Crowder and attacking a tent with knives that contained human beings, including women.
Can you not bring your union loving corpulence to to acknowledge some wrongdoing here? "There will be blood" is threatened from the very statehouse floor, and now it has come to pass.
What say you blubby?
Dude! Aren't most of the people protesting old white people?
Why are you standing up for the oppressors?
And Garage is reduced to repeatedly hurling his "fascist!" spitball.
Fascists hates unions. Right wingers hate unions with the same zeal. Sorry if that's an inconvenient fact for you to absorb. I say relish it!
Sure about that, GM?
"There will be blood" is threatened from the very statehouse floor, and now it has come to pass.
You're such a fucking dope. LOL
google and 2 minutes is your friend:
lookee what I found and the Nazi unions actually had their own logo:
When Hitler came to power, he moved to correct this hyperinflation while keeping his national socialist views front and center. In 1933, the Nazis disbanded the Weimar unions and replaced them with the new and improved union, the German Labor Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront, DAF), which was comprised of 2 primary entities, the National Socialist Factory Organization and the National Socialist Trade and Industry Organization. The labor contracts that were Weimar contracts were now DAF-honored contracts. The Nazi’s funded the DAF’s coffers with the Weimar unions’ stockpile of wealth (the existing unions were part of that inflation problem). One of the new unions’ most popular programs was the Strength through Joy (Kraft durch Freude, KdF)) program, which developed the KdF-wagen, that later became the Volkswagen, or People’s Car.
The primary goal of Germany’s national socialists was to “create a classless” society. Hitler’s unions were central in this cause. In fact, Hitler gave the unions their long-awaited demand, one that the Weimar unions were never able to pull off, a National Labor Day, May 1, 1933.
http://thegraph.com/2011/02/hitler-didnt-outlaw-unions-as-a-national-socialist-he-went-double-down-on-them/
@garage:
Facists hate unions? That'd be news to Hitler, who was pro-union, like any good leftist would be:
http://thegraph.com/2011/02/hitler-didnt-outlaw-unions-as-a-national-socialist-he-went-double-down-on-them/
lol, garage lies again.
Once again the GOP is on the side of the free-loaders.
@garage
or here, liar:
http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/Nazis_were_socialists_article_Nazi-German_Labor_Unions_info_pdf
Leftists have long tried to deny that fascism is left wing economic and government thought.
It's called a Big Lie. A concept popularized by that socialist, Adolf Hitler.
Once again the GOP is on the side of the free-loaders.
You mean all those corporations receiving subsidies.
Really garage. Get off your fat ass and go to Lansing. Are you scared? Have to check with your boss?
Yes, I am such a dope.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2515629#.UMdhiYPAcaB
Video don't lie.
Neither does the scale, you two hundred and twenty pound obese piece of shit.
The video of Crowder getting assaulted doesn't lie either, and hopefully a couple of your union buddies will be seeing the inside of a cell soon.
Patrick said...
"Look for the Union Label"
Now Patrick, that simply isn't fair.
Really, it just isn't.
No reasonable person, anywhere, believes one can, let alone should, judge union activists and thugs by the same standards one judges normal people.
Besides which, trolls have to have heroes too, don'cha know?
garage mahal said...
Fascists hates unions. Right wingers hate unions with the same zeal. Sorry if that's an inconvenient fact for you to absorb. I say relish it!
12/11/12 3:22 PM
We should be careful how we criticize this particular gem. It's probably the expression closest to his true ability to reason he will ever post. If we're too harsh you never know what he might do to himself.
Skimpy, but oh so impolite!
machine said...
Once again the GOP is on the side of the free-loaders.
Garage's inability to think seems to be infecting the other trolls.
Hmmm, you'd think the Republicans won the last election.
garage mahal said...
Union busting. Stormtroopers. Chemical weapons. Nightsticks.
A GOP wet dream, all in one day!
Off Insta:
STEVE CROWDER SENDS THIS FOOTAGE OF HIM BEING ASSAULTED BY UNION THUGS IN MICHIGAN. Crowder emails: “The video is self explanatory. I was sucker-punched 4 times on camera, without retaliation, choked, and the AFP tent is torn to the ground with women and children inside of it. Extremely violent footage. Please post for truth.” It’s also rich listening to the union guy yell about “parasites” and “freeloaders.” Don’t they know those words are racist?
PS Somebody tell garage (and all the other Lefties) the only difference between fascism and communism is foreign policy.
--Once again the GOP is on the side of the free-loaders.---
The citizens who bitchslapped the unions down 6-0?
Maybe they were sick of union tyranny?
And God.
No reasonable person, anywhere, believes one can, let alone should, judge union activists and thugs by the same standards one judges normal people
I do lose sight of that fact from time to time. You'd think I would be better about it, having been reading Althouse over the last 18 mos.
Hitler was pro-union?
I really have heard it all. Thanks guys. For that.
Yes, he was GM. Either your lready knew that, or you didn't. Either way, it's further proof that you're a dope.
GM: "I really have heard it all."
Apparently, you haven't heard, read or learned close to "it all".
Hitlers unions and the purpose of those unions were hardly a state secret.
Once again, the most basic historical facts elude you.
Why do you suppose that is?
Garage,
I see you are refusing to acknowledge the assault as well as the violent rhetoric employed on floor of the michigan house.
Some commenters on this site have defended you as a basically okay guy, and capable of being reasonable at time. I have never claimed to be among those commenters, but I respect several of them. I doubt any of them can feel that way after today.
"Fascists hates unions. Right wingers hate unions with the same zeal. Sorry if that's an inconvenient fact for you to absorb. I say relish it!"
That must be the reason why Mussolini was so popular in the US during the thirties. Hitler was an anomaly. Mussolini was the real father of Fascism and he did not lose his popularity in the US until he joined the Axis with Hitler. Fascism is Socialism with a crony capitalist twist. Like the Obama administration.
Yes, he was GM. Either your lready knew that, or you didn't
I bet that would have come as some surprise to the labor unions that were quite famously abolished in May 1933, and to the labor leaders that were imprisoned and sent to concentration camps.
I really need more conservative customers. They'll buy anything.
A little history lesson, from the Nuremborg trials:
The first Nazi attack was upon the two larger unions. On April 21, 1933 an order not even in the name of the Government, but of the Nazi Party was issued by the conspirator Robert Ley as "Chief of Staff of the political organization of the NSDAP," applicable to the Trade Union Confederation and the Independent Employees Confederation. It directed seizure of their properties and arrest of their principal leaders. The Party order directed Party organs which we here denounce as criminal associations, the SA and SS "to be employed for the occupation of the trade union properties, and for the taking into custody of personalities who come into question." And it directed the taking into "protective custody" of all chairmen and district secretaries of such unions and branch directors of the labor bank. (392-PS)
These orders were carried out on May 2, 1933. All funds of the labor unions, including pension and benefit funds, were seized. Union leaders were sent to concentration camps. A few days later, on May 10, 1933, Hitler appointed Ley leader of the German Labor Front (Deutsche Arbeitsfront) which succeeded to the confiscated union funds. The German Labor Front, a Nazi controlled labor. bureau, was set up under Ley to teach the Nazi philosophy to German workers and to weed out from industrial employment all who were backward in their lessons. (1940-PS) "Factory troops" were organized as an "ideological shock squad within the factory" (1817-PS). The Party order provided that "outside of the German Labor front, no other Organization (whether of workers or of employees) is to exist." On June 24, 1933 the remaining Christian Trade Unions were seized, pursuant to an order of the Nazi Party signed by Ley.
Article Summary
Nazi Germany and Organized Labor
The National Socialist Union of Employers and Workers
from The Literary Digest, 1935
"The Third Reich, under Hitler, has wiped out corporate trade-unionism by forcing all workers to join one great government union, the National Socialist Union of Employers and Workers..."
Crowder got physically assaulted today. Check out the video over at Instapundit. This needs to be documented.
It's already on video. Isn't that enough?
What does AFP mean? I'm assuming it's not Agence France Presse.
I see that lardass would rather talk about Nazi's than address the subject of the post. Not surprising.
May your ineveitable death from obesity related illnesses be slow and painful.
The Union thug would never have punched Crowder if it wasn't for that son of a bitch LBJ, or Obama, or whatever.
But Union violence is cool!
AFP = Americans for Prosperity.
Yes Garage, we all know that Hitler got rid of the Weimar unions.
The part you keep "forgetting" to mention is that Hitler then installed his own unions.
As a lefty in good standing, I'm not surprised that you keep "forgetting" to mention that.
Of course, if we would just put in place a "workers paradise" as in the Soviet Union, why, unions wouldn't even be necessary!
Forward!
What does AFP mean?
Americans for Prosperity
If obama had a union thug son, he would look alot like the guy that hit Crowder.....
http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/Nazis_were_socialists_article_Nazi-German_Labor_Unions_info
With the original article.
Hmmm, forced to join a union against their will, how symmetrical.
According to librul stooge Bob Beckel, we are forever indebted to unions for having weekends off. Following that logic, blacks should be forever indebted to the Republican party for ending slavery.
Nobody else is complaining - so I must be the only one blocked by a WSJ paywall.
Not all of us have free reading rights like UWM employees.
The part you keep "forgetting" to mention is that Hitler then installed his own unions.
Which reduced workers pay, took away collective bargaining, and the ability to strike. That might sound eerily familiar to public workers in Wisconsin.
Once again, the most basic historical facts elude you.
Why do you suppose that is?
Public education by unionized [aka incompetent] teachers?
:-)
garage - Wisconsin is broke. Deal with it. The gravy train is over.
garage mahal said...
The part you keep "forgetting" to mention is that Hitler then installed his own unions.
Which reduced workers pay, took away collective bargaining, and the ability to strike. That might sound eerily familiar to public workers in Wisconsin.
They also ended up doing better because the economy improved.
At least for a while.
GM: "Which reduced workers pay, took away collective bargaining, and the ability to strike. That might sound eerily familiar to public workers in Wisconsin."
It is also eerily familiar to what George Meany had to say: "“It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.”
It is also eerily familiar to what FDR had to say: ".. Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations ... The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for ... officials ... to bind the employer ... The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives ...
"Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people ... This obligation is paramount ... A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent ... to prevent or obstruct ... Government ... Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government ... is unthinkable and intolerable."
Who knew that garage thinks George Meany and FDR were nazi's!
So workers in Michigan now get a choice. How is that a bad thing?
The part you keep "forgetting" to mention is that Hitler then installed his own unions.
___________________
Which reduced workers pay, took away collective bargaining, and the ability to strike. That might sound eerily familiar to public workers in Wisconsin.
Funny how government tends to exert authority how it chooses and not how those trying to exert their own would choose for them. You'd think such observations would at least slow the left's attempt to install government as the final arbiter of everything.
garage keeps calling people who believe in the Right To Work legislation "fascists".
That seems eerily familiar with Lenin's, Stalins, Mao's and Castro's tactics.
Just sayin'.....
"Skimpy compared to the Wisconsin protests of 2011."
hmm, it's the holiday season and Snyder's signature is a done deal. Coming after a longgg national election where most folk want to move on from politics.
Besides, the only way to "rationally" undo Snyder/MI Reps attack on unions is to bounce him in 2014 along w/the Rep controlled state legislature.
Stay tuned ...
btw, the irony that Willard's dad was a big supporter of unions. But that was wayyy before cons were consumed by their hatred of Dems/Clinton/Obama.
and so it goes ...
Rusty: "So workers in Michigan now get a choice. How is that a bad thing."
It is a bad thing to garage and pals because the "workers in Michigan now get a choice."
QED
Our stalinist lovin' buddies on the left are not real big on the whole "individual rights" thing.
Most importantly, it doesn't allow for dues to be forceably taken from some working folks to directly fund political viewpoints of the left in opposition to the individuals viewpoint.
And that is a very very very bad thing in garages eyes.
Very very bad.
So tell us Drago: what other freedom things do you feel workers are entitled to, besides being able to freeload off other's dues? You must have more than one on your list?
The troll forgets/didn't know that Stalin abolished trade unions.
Although Michigan has not (nor Wisconsin before it) abolished trade unions, this is no surprise, as the Socialist are the very first to call "Nazi!" to distract from themselves and their failing efforts.
shiloh: "btw, the irony that Willard's dad was a big supporter of unions. But that was wayyy before cons were consumed by their hatred of Dems/Clinton/Obama."
Short answer: it's not 1965 anymore and we are currently at $16Trillion+ in public debt at the Federal level and $82B+ in debt at the Michigan state level.
garage: "So tell us Drago: what other freedom things do you feel workers are entitled to, besides being able to freeload off other's dues? You must have more than one on your list?"
Define "freedom things".
@garage:
Hitler was pro-union?I really have heard it all. Thanks guys. For that.
lol. Note how garbage pail simply refuses to acknowledge the truth: Hitler supported unions. Despite all the links and evidence, he still denies it, trying claim a purge of its leadership is the same as being against thgem.
Since Hitler purged the leadership of his secret police, I guess he was against that too, huh?
Considering fascist economic theory involved the government working hand-in-glove with unions whilst controlling the boards of corporations ("trust us," they said), you'd think garbage pail would know better than to open his mouth and spew lies.
But he is a leftist, like Mein Obama. By any means necessary.
Troll Logic:
Big, expensive, inefficient Government with monopoly power: Great!
Big, expensive, inefficient Labor with monopoly power: Great!
Big, inexpensive, efficient Business with market power: Evil!
garage: "So tell us Drago: what other freedom things do you feel workers are entitled to, besides being able to freeload off other's dues? You must have more than one on your list?"
No individual should be compelled, as condition of employment, to join a union which does not represent his or her economic or political interest as defined by that individual.
It's really that simple.
Which makes it kryptonite to the left.
Define "freedom things".
Freedom to work in a safe and clean work environment, sick leave, paternity leave, health insurance, pensions, sick days, etc etc etc.
Define "freedom things".
Freedom to work in a safe and clean work environment, sick leave, paternity leave, health insurance, pensions, sick days, etc etc etc.
You've mistaken "freedom" for "benefits." Those can arguably be good things, but they are not freedom.
How is it that so many get those without union membership anyway?
garage mahal said...
Define "freedom things".
Freedom to work in a safe and clean work environment, sick leave, paternity leave, health insurance, pensions, sick days,
Non-union employment sure must suck without these. Oh wait..
I can't wait until he claims the unions created the middle class.
shiloh said...
Stay tuned ...
Sounds like a threat.
Unions were created so uneducated slobs like garage mahal could make $40/hour with lavish benefits.
garage: "Freedom to work in a safe and clean work environment, sick leave, paternity leave, health insurance, pensions, sick days, etc etc etc."
These all exist in RTW states.
Do you have anything else?
Marshall: "Non-union employment sure must suck without these. Oh wait.."
LOL
Garage and his pals think RTW states exist in some sort of circa 1910 Chicago upton sinclair novel!
These all exist in RTW states.
Really? For all workers? I think you better check your facts again.
garage: "Really? For all workers? I think you better check your facts again."
LOL
Don't leave us in suspense!!
Which subset of "all workers" are you talking about?
LOL
Hitler, Stalin, Mao had compulsory unionization - in the unions that solidly supported their agenda. No choice to opt out for workers. Sounds familiar?
"Freedom to work in a safe and clean work environment, sick leave, paternity leave, health insurance, pensions, sick days, etc etc etc."
And someone is supposed to provide all of these? It's not like freedom of speech, you actualy require other people at gun point to provide all of that.
BTW, when you hire a babysitter, do you also provide her with health insurance, sick days and pension?
Define "freedom things".
Freedom to work in a safe and clean work environment, sick leave, paternity leave, health insurance, pensions, sick days, etc etc etc.
With the exception of a few of those items (pension and perhaps health insurance) there are state and federal laws that protect workers. OSHA handles the safety aspects. The average worker is well protected and Unions exist today to only extort money from the workers to funnel to Democrats. It is an unhealthy corrupt system.
In the past, Unions served their purpose and were needed to protect workers. Today, they are about as useless as tits on a boar.
Re: garage --
The Nazis were socialists -- they were explicitly a workers party. Sure, they purged rival union movements. They also purged factions within themselves (e.g. Night of the Long Knives), and purged other socialist movements. None of this means they were anti-union, any more than Bolsheviks purging Mensheviks shows that the Bolsheviks were really conservative reactionaries because look! They're purging radical socialists!
Anyhow, if you want to know what Hitler thought about unions, there's no need to guess. He has an entire chapter about it in Mein Kampf! He recaps his basic views here:
In the first volume of this book I have already expressed my views on
the nature and purpose and necessity of trade unions. There I took up
the standpoint that unless measures are undertaken by the State (usually
futile in such cases) or a new ideal is introduced in our education,
which would change the attitude of the employer towards the worker, no
other course would be open to the latter except to defend his own
interests himself by appealing to his equal rights as a contracting
party within the economic sphere of the nation's existence. I stated
further that this would conform to the interests of the national
community if thereby social injustices could be redressed which
otherwise would cause serious damage to the whole social structure. I
stated, moreover, that the worker would always find it necessary to
undertake this protective action as long as there were men among the
employers who had no sense of their social obligations nor even of the
most elementary human rights. And I concluded by saying that if such
self-defence be considered necessary its form ought to be that of an
association made up of the workers themselves on the basis of trades
unions..
So yeah, he thinks unions are necessary to defend workers' interests against employers. Ultimately, though, his overpowering will to extend the state into all reaches of human life means that once the National Socialist state comes into being, instruments of class conflict like trade unions will have to be replaced.
Garage is not wrong about the good that unions have done for wage slaves in hard times.
But freedom to work without paying for a mandatory lawyer team trumps the need for every major business to be required to pay massive dues into a State Establishment Union.
Capital needs labor. And Obama Dems want the veto power over the use of capital by a labor monopoly. The question is why do they seek power.
FYI, Hitler was a power seeker and sought only a temporary fascist top down direction to concentrate his economic control for creation of a war machine. He needed a war machine for total world conquest, then brief enslavement, and then murder of all non-Aryans. After that he likely would have had the German fascists killed too for whatever reason seemed right to his demons.
Traditionalguy, I've heard many people use the term "slave wage", but I could not find anyone who could explain what the hell this expression mean.
Garage,
"...besides being able to freeload off other's dues..."
Who's saying anyone can do that? Nobody except you... enjoy your straw man, fella!
I find it amusing that Obama supporters...who support a philosophy of "tax the rich" to pay for social programs...are hitching about "freeloading".
You happily voted for freeloading last month.
Unions are not legally required to negotiate for non members.
@ Hyphenated American...The history of mining and steel production in the early 1900s is a sorry tale of men and families trapped into 72 hour work weeks with dangerous to deadly work conditions and not enough money to survive. much less move away.
The Company Store owned them.
That was a small step up from chain gang slave labor of innocent men all over the south building the public roads or just being rented out to slave masters.
Unions were once a needed antidote to a terrible abuse of working men. And they were only violent when the Owners sent in private gangs of murderers to kill the leaders of strikes.
Do we still need them? That is the only question.
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