People are asking. Did you not notice that he frequently sipped water? I never noticed Biden drinking water, and at the first debate, I never noticed Romney or Obama drinking water.
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469 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»People who work out consistently (presumably this includes Ryan) drink a lot of water, for a number of reasons.
My lefty friends on Facebook were focused on Ryan's water drinking to the point that if Ryan was doing shots of whiskey their rhetoric would not have changed much.
There is another option. In practice there was another tic that was determined to be annoying, like tapping fingers or twiddling thumbs or whatever. That was channeled into something more acceptable, like drinking water.
Athelete and habit. I imagine he drinks gallons every day.
My guess: it was something to do while Biden was speaking.
Drinking water helped him keep his cool and avoid beating the shit out of that smug asshole Biden.
He looked like he might have had a cold. His eyes were a little red and appeared slightly watery. I suspect that is why he was sipping water throughout.
I'm guessing it was either gin or vodka. If I'd had to put up with Biden that long I'd need something stronger than water.
Biden was too busy interrupting. Biden was dehydrated and boorish.
Brains need hydration in order to function properly. Ryan was properly hydrated.
Biden is dried up.
Yeah, his eyes were red.
I always drink water when I have to speak a lot. Some people are just prone to dehydration more than others.
Was it the $200 wine again? It's hard to stop at 2 glasses for Irish Catholics.
It's was code for "Shut up, you damned buffoon."
It gave him something to do so that he didn't punch Biden. When you're irritated and you don't want to show it, you need something to distract you.
He was dehydrated from all the hot air blowing in his direction.
Excessive water drinking is a sure sign of cocaine usage.
What makes you think it was water?
Actually, it was a specially devised clear liquid CHEAT SHEET full of rethuglican LIES!!!
Ryan is a CHEATER and a LIAR!!!
He was obviously playing one of the many drinking games that were posted all over the 'net yesterday.
Sheila said...
It gave him something to do so that he didn't punch Biden. When you're irritated and you don't want to show it, you need something to distract you.
^^ This.
It was a part of managing to remain calm and reasonable with a madman screaming at him and the "neutral moderator" interrupting him whenever he was trying to make a point.
He was obviously playing one of the many drinking games that were posted all over the 'net yesterday.
Somebody mentioned that on facebook or a blog, I didn't even notice. Maybe that happened during the 30-45 minutes I skipped.
Water? It was unicorn tears.
My very first day on-air as a rock dj was exactly like that. I must have consumed four or five gallons that night. I wasn't consciously aware of being more nervous than I'd ever been in my life, but my body, particularly my mouth and throat, certainly were.
O isn't that much older than Ryan, so I doubt it has anything to do with age.
If forced to guess I would go with Ryan being nervous, the others losing all natural human instinct at this point or Kevin's suggestion in the third comment, and in that order.
I'm surprised anyone even noticed that given Biden's buffoonery..
Getting bathed in all that hot air flowing from VP Biden's mouth, Mr. Ryan felt it was wise to frequently hydrate.
I was kind of hoping Mr. Ryan would choke and spray during one of Mr. Biden's more memorable howlers.
It's one way to stay awake. If he was driving he would have rolled down the window and stuck his head out.
Excessive water drinking is a sure sign of cocaine usage.
Yes, along with sitting calmly while watching a buffoon put on a clown show. Besides, I thought you guys were all in favor of doing mountains of coke because your demigod-in-chief just plan loved that shit in college. Or is it like freedom of speech, you're only in favor of it for yourselves and not anyone else?
It's one way to stay awake.
Are we sure it was water? Are any energy drinks clear?
Could be the lights dried him out.
Went with 4, but toyed with 5.
Honestly, I bet he does that all the time. He's a fitness freak, and they all do it.
I drink water and diet soda all day and all evening long. I picked up the habit growing up in Phoenix. There's almost always a glass or a bottle of something (not what you might think) near me. Hydration is more important than most people know.
As an ex-jock, I would say Ryan with low body fat, high metabolism from working out and the studio lights, he needed hydration. Most would need a cigarette to relax to avoid punching out the obnoxious out of line drunk at the bar.
Most would need a cigarette to relax to avoid punching out the obnoxious out of line drunk at the bar.
Hey, maybe that's why Barry Half-White can't quit the cancer sticks!
And maybe Shut-the-Fuck-Up Joey really is a genius and he's hoping to win the Presidency by knocking off the Prez with lung cancer!
Hmmm. Or maybe not....
probably parched from lying... you see it with convicts too
1. Heat generated by combination of Biden's gusty pizza cheese-smelling sighs and the dazzling white-hot glare from Biden's fake chompers led to increased need for hydration.
2. Quelling, stifling, suppressing, throwing cold water on overwhelming recurring urge to punch Biden in the face.
I noticed that during the abortion discussion, Biden was sounding a bit hoarse, and then after that Martha Raddatz was sounding hoarse during one of the following questions.
I thought they were sounding hoarse because they had spent so much time talking over/interrupting Ryan - must have been lack of hydration.
Actually the glass had a small LED display in the bottom. Ryan kept drinking from it to cheat. On the other end was a collection of Elders of the Church of Latter Day Saints, Pope Benedict XVI, Karl Rove and, of course, Sarah Palin's uterus.
I went with #5. In 10 or so years, when Ryan is old(er), he'll have an increasing need to piss at the drop of a hat, but now his sphincter muscles have a nice vise grip on his urethra. And he was thirsty, so he drank water. BFD.
Sigh. I remember those days fondly.
Icepick, that's a very good fact. I noticed, similarly, that if you zoom in on Biden's smile (gotta zoom way in) and slow down the video (slow way down) you can make out the words "RYAN'S MOTHER WEARS COMBAT BOOTS" on his teeth.
One thing I learned working in a nursing home is that often old folks don't feel thirsty even when dehydrated. The nursing home staff kept a glass of water handy for all patients and constantly prompted them to take a sip.
Old Joe probably doesn't feel the thirst, even though his old brain is shriveling up like a prune.
I don't care why. This is a scandal of the highest order. When future generations think "watergate," they'll think of this debate. It makes hankygate look mild by comparison.
It's one way to stay awake.
Are we sure it was water? Are any energy drinks clear?
It was vodka, to take off the edge of sitting next to the Dumb Blonde of the Senate for 90 mins.
I have a burning question. Is the guy behind shit my dad says Joe Biden's son?
I didn't notice either candidate drinking much, but I did notice the cameras would cut to the other candidate as one took a drink. I suspect it varies by broadcaster.
Sipping water is a good way to conceal irritation. It gives you a reason to move around a bit without looking like you're fidgeting, and tends to relax the facial muscles.
Romney, of course, is a robot, and thus does not require food or water.
Workout hounds routinely drink water.
That, and what better way than to flush Biden's grotesque adjacency away after the 'debate'.
Joe Biden's son? I pity him, he knows what we know, in a decade or less he'll be going in for plugs.
My guess is that Marathon Man Pinocchio Ryan wanted to be fully hydrated before running to his next campaign stop.
I noticed, during Ryan's RNC speech, he did an excessive amount of throat clearing. I figure, since his father died early, there's a physical anomaly he's living with - something all the work outs in the world won't fix, since they don't address the problem. I wouldn't be surprised if we discover, since all that working out requires more intake of air through a (possibly) faulty system, he may be driving himself to an early grave as well. I've seen it many times before:
The most common are those who hurt their backs and - not understanding it's a structural problem they need to adjust to - insist they're going to "strengthen" it, risking even worse damage.
Paul Ryan's never looked healthy to me - he's extremely pale - as though low blood circulation is an issue. If I was his friend, I'd be advising him to take it easy, to put his considerable energies somewhere other than the gym.
But then, I think that's good advice for almost anyone:
Being a slave to your body - just like any other kind - is still slavery,...
By drinking it, he was less likely to throw a glass in Biden's face.
As an older man, I think the answer is pretty clear.
Also, even Biden can't drink while he's talking.
As an older man, I think the answer is pretty clear.
Also, even Biden can't drink while he's talking.
It bears repeating.
By drinking it, he was less likely to throw a glass in Biden's face.
Perhaps he was concealing his own laughter, at how Biden had fallen right into the trap of acting like a blowhard asshole?
Paul Ryan's never looked healthy to me - he's extremely pale - as though low blood circulation is an issue.
I just figured he's pale because he lives in Wisconsin. If I lived there I think I'd be pale all year round.
And I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but Ryan, being a younger man, was clearly following Wheaton's Law. Biden, being an old fart, has no concept of Wheaton's Law.
Because they didn't have any beer?
Jake Diamond said...
My guess is that Marathon Man Pinocchio Ryan wanted to be fully hydrated before running to his next campaign stop.
Is that you, garage?
Damn this Jake fellow is adept at impressions. He must be trying to avoid Inga's attentions and affections.
Ryan did the right thing, keeping hydrated. Biden didn't, and by the final one-third of the debate he sounded dried out and exhausted. He should have been hydrating.
He was imagining the glass as Biden's neck...someone needs to look for stress cracks in the thing.
Is that you, garage?
Nope.
Maybe Ryan was still thirsty from writing all those letters to Obama/Biden begging for stimulus money?
He was drinking a lot of water because they were out of Ovaltine. Duh.
garage mahal said...
Maybe Ryan was still thirsty from writing all those letters to Obama/Biden begging for stimulus money?
You know, that is an amazingly stupid argument; I'd be embarrassed to make that argument if I were you.
You and nine folks go into a restaurant; you are all agreed, ahead of time, that you'll all split the bill ten ways.
A couple of folks want to order, I dunno, "Lobster a la Greque, but you object, it's too pricey. But you get outvoted.
Are you a hypocrite if you eat some of the pricey lobster you didn't want to order--but you'll have to pay for?
Please explain your answer.
Drinking water is a very repulsive habit.
Yeah right Garage. Biden/Obama answered Ryan's desperate! Cry! for stimulus! by saying:
Piss off, sucker. All this tax payer money belongs to our donors and cronies and their fake solar "start ups". The D-rich getting richer. Biden-Obama do not care about your piddly stupid little district.
Maybe Ryan was still thirsty from writing all those letters to Obama/Biden begging for stimulus money?
All...two.
I mean, it was kind of a cute "gotcha." Everybody knows that the stimulus funds were only meant for Democratic constituents, so what was Ryan thinking?
I'm glad we're focused on the important issue of drinking water, instead of trying to figure out the answer to Ryans question: Why is it important to have a detachment of Marines to protect our Embassy in Paris,but not important to have the same in Libya,when there had been requests for more security because of ongoing terror activity.
Shocking, isn't it, garage, that he'd want any of that dirty tainted stimulus money?
Much better for the federal government to confiscate billions from citizens of Wisconsin and funnel it only to other states. That makes sense.
If I rifled through your pockets at gunpoint, would it be hypocritical of you to ask for some of it back?
I bet 100% of the guys here over 55 picked the urination answer.
Drinking water is a very repulsive habit.
Be repulsive or die!
Shocking, isn't it, garage, that he'd want any of that dirty tainted stimulus money?
Ryan is like every other Republican that lies about the stimulus, privately asks for some of it saying it will create jobs and growth, and takes credit for it back in their districts. Strangely, that doesn't seem to bother other Republicans.
According to RCP average, at this point in 2008 Obama had pulled away and was +7 over McCain. Today he is -1 to Romney. Hope and change!
Option F: Ryan hoped to show those watching at home that he was calm and his hands were not shaking (i.e., he was not nervous to be on the stage with Biden).
And I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but Ryan, being a younger man, was clearly following Wheaton's Law. Biden, being an old fart, has no concept of Wheaton's Law.
Even Wheaton doesn't always follow Wheaton's law.
" Strangely, that doesn't seem to bother other Republicans."
It's their money too. You would have to be stupid to let everyone else put their hand in the kitty you are funding, and just watch. One reason conservatives want less government is so they don't have to compete with slackers to get their own money back. Is this really hard to get?
You would have to be stupid to let everyone else put their hand in the kitty you are funding, and just watch.
So....Ryan wanted this money because the STIMULUS WAS A GIANT FAILURE and would NEVER CREATE ONE JOB, and because ALL OF THE STIMULUS WENT TO GREEN JOB UNICORN CRONYISM?
Republicans in office think you're fucking stupid, and it's hard to argue with them on that.
So, when does Ann Athouse call upon liberals to learn how to speak to moderates and conservatives without making themselves repulsive to us? Sick: Vicious libs ask ‘does Paul Ryan forcibly rape his wife,’ wish rape on her.
I'm not sure that ice cold water is the smart thing to provide either. Room temperature won't shock the vocal cords as much.
I think it would have been hilarious if Ryan had done a full spit take on Biden when he told his first whopper. Then he could have kept Joe in line with judicious use of the waterglass.
Oh, I see..
While Biden behaved like a clown most of the debate... Look... Ryan was drinking water all the time... how rude?
It's funny to read a moron calling other people stupid.
He's certainly qualified to know, but lacks the ability to really know.
That's why he's a moron.
Ryan is like every other Republican that lies about the stimulus, privately asks for some of it saying it will create jobs and growth, and takes credit for it back in their districts. Strangely, that doesn't seem to bother other Republicans.
See, garage's alternative is to refuse out of principle and allow ALL the stimulus money to go to the cronies--yet still have Ryan;s constituents help pay-off your largesses. I see why you dislike what Ryan did--it means less for GM and Solyndra.
It's like you're trying to invoke the lesson of "The Little Red Hen" here or something but you're forgetting the badger and the fox are still on the hook for the debt no matter what, simply because the little red hens in DC insisted on borrowing bread instead of actually baking it.
Nerves. After listening to Biden's rude inanity - anyone would run for whatever liquid was at hand. Ryan was stuck with water.
garage mahal said...
So....Ryan wanted this money because the STIMULUS WAS A GIANT FAILURE and would NEVER CREATE ONE JOB, and because ALL OF THE STIMULUS WENT TO GREEN JOB UNICORN CRONYISM?
Another deeply embarrassing argument.
If the government proposed to buy every American not one, but six blenders, that would be a pretty major failure as policy. I fail to see why it's hypocritical to say that, and yet, once the blenders are being passed out, to go get your six.
Second, I would like an actual quote where--sans all-caps--Ryan said the stimulus would not create a single job, and that every single penny of the money went to green jobs. I don't believe he made any such charge. Thus your argument fails due to being premised on a falsehood.
Of course. The sinister Water-Drinking-Throat-Clearing Cult. Closely associated with the nefarious Gym Cult. Ryan's obviously a very very sick man and simply isn't aware of it. The so-called "doctors" are hiding it from him, pumping him full of "water," distracting him with physically debilitating "work-outs" and absurd mindless "throat-clearing" rituals.
I've seen this tragedy many times before, fools. Other people, going to the gym and drinking water. And sometimes clearing their throats before speaking. It leads to an early grave. It's so obvious I can diagnose it all the way from my comfortable recliner.
Garage, to help you understand, think of this:
Do you take all your tax deductions, even though you support higher taxes?
Are you being smart or a hypocrite, or both?
My husband has to drink water when he is making presentations at meetings or conferences. He's a competent speaker, but he sometimes gets what we teasingly describe as "Bill Clinton voice" when presenting. I chose the "nervous" choice in the survey, but it nervous isn't apt. Can't think of a better word, though.
Garage you’re ridiculous.
Oh wait - Please inform the class about some actual stimulus success stories.
That money is our money, and our representatives have a say in where it goes. Are you saying that only democrats get a say?
With Obama/Paul Krugman at the helm – it looks that way.
Reality Garage - There is a rather large list of "green energy companies" that so happen to be Obama donors and they so happened to receive government backed loans for millions, and they so happened to all go bankrupt. Thousands of people lost their jobs and the rich donors walked away richer. But I suppose you don't care about that, do you?
Wow. "Because he's clearly ill, like his father, and also a slave to his body" has got to be the most creative explanation ever. Who knew that the first sign of heart disease (which killed Ryan's father) was throat-clearing? Thank goodness there's a doctor in the house, and not one of those crazy quacks who think they can diagnose a stranger through their television screen...
@AprilApple: I think economics plays little role in garage's energy politics. He, like POTUS, hates oil companies. He'd rather rathole a bunch of money down Solyndra than extend one tax credit to company with a proven track record.
The latest meme is that if only Obama's "jobs bill" got passed a year ago we'd have 7.2% unemployment rate.
Does garage even understand how wealth is created?
@Fr Martin Fox
First, Ryan has said all along that the stimulus didn't work, and that he never requested any stimulus funds.
Then when confronted with letters from Ryan asking for stimulus funds touting the job-creating virtues of the program, he says he was only asking because of his constituents. Why? Because that stimulus money would create jobs?
He lied all about the entire damn thing. About the stimulus not working, and about requesting some of the stimulus himself.
And it turns out he requested more stimulus funds than previously thought.
Ryan is perfect.
Paul Ryan never requested any stimulus funds.
That's a lie.
Shorter Garage: "...Squirrel!"
I'm on the phone (tech support) all day. I sip at 2-liters of CokeZer0 or Crystal Lite in between calls or when I'm logged in remotely onto a computer fixing their software. My cow-orkers laugh at the big bottles while they swig from 20oz bottles that cost $.50 more than what I pay for 67.6oz. I can do math.
Stay thirsty, my friends. Like Ryan. Literally. -CP
garage mahal said...
@Fr Martin Fox
First, Ryan has said all along that the stimulus didn't work, and that he never requested any stimulus funds.
Then when confronted with letters from Ryan asking for stimulus funds touting the job-creating virtues of the program, he says he was only asking because of his constituents. Why? Because that stimulus money would create jobs?
He lied all about the entire damn thing. About the stimulus not working, and about requesting some of the stimulus himself.
And it turns out he requested more stimulus funds than previously thought.
Well, now you are restating your arguments. I don't blame you, because the arguments made earlier were ridiculous. But it's not a response or a defense of them.
(1) The "stimulus didn't work."
Again, this is a dumb argument on your part. I refer to my argument about a fictional program to distribute six blenders to every American. I like to think you would (a) have railed against such a dumb policy and yet I would see nothing wrong with you getting your six blenders, once the gov't decides to go ahead with said dumb policy. Why shouldn't you? Please explain.
(2) Ryan never requested any funds.
Winner, winner, chicken dinner! Now there's a cogent argument! Assuming it's factually true, which I simply don't know. But it's potentially a valid argument. Why don't you stick to that argument, and drop the other, dumb, one?
Maybe he is a member of a water-drinkers cult.
I drink a lot of water. Do you have a problem with that?
Again, this is a dumb argument on your part. I refer to my argument about a fictional program to distribute six blenders to every American. I like to think you would (a) have railed against such a dumb policy and yet I would see nothing wrong with you getting your six blenders, once the gov't decides to go ahead with said dumb policy. Why shouldn't you? Please explain.
Why would Ryan want to be part of a dumb policy? Nobody twisted his arm to write those letters asking for funds.
It's an admission that the program could benefit communities, but it's under Obama, so no way in hell you can come out and say that.
When I'm doing a lot of speaking, I've learned to have that water bottle nearby -- and a bag of Halls cough drops. Not only am I prone to my throat going dry when talking a lot, but that phlegm doesn't easily drain and instead gets stuck in the back of my throat unless there is something keeping it lubricated.
Garage:
So I return to my going-out-together analogy.
You and nine folks go together to dinner. You all agree, ahead of time, you'll split the tab 10 ways.
Once there, your friends--for whatever reason--order some ridiculously expensive thing. You think it's a dumb idea. You say so. But you are outvoted.
So, by your argument, you cannot, must not, eat any of what was ordered, even though you're paying for it.
Right?
According to your argument, if you go ahead and eat what you paid for, that invalidates your original argument against ordering the deep-fried Condor wings.
Please explain why this is so.
Garage:
If the government decided to create a milk-delivery program, in which six bottles of ice-cold milk were delivered to every door in America--including the doors of people who hate milk, including the doors of vacant buildings, I think you would agree that:
1) This would be an exceedingly dumb and wasteful policy; and yet:
2) It would "benefit communities."
Please explain how it is absolutely impossible for a policy to be both "dumb" and yet "benefit" people. I just showed an example of such a policy.
Please show how I'm wrong, and no such thing is possible.
Water is like lip balm.
You start using a little, you end up needing it all the time.
Hey, this issue just got teased on Bret Baier's (sp?) FNC show!
So, Father Fox, are you voting for Romney/ Ryan now? Last I heard you said you won't vote for Romney.
So, by your argument, you cannot, must not, eat any of what was ordered, even though you're paying for it.
Right?
No. I'm glad Ryan requested funds for those projects. He has every right in the world to do so.
But at least admit that the food ordered was food and not some inedible poop on a platter, and admit that you did indeed eat. And don't tell people you weren't even at the restaurant to begin with.
Paul Ryan's never looked healthy to me - he's extremely pale - as though low blood circulation is an issue.
Might be due to his German and Irish heritage. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the vessels recede from the skin surface to better insulate, as a genetic adaptation to the cold.
Garage:
If it consoles you, I am happy to agree that in my analogy, the food is not poop.
Words fail me.
Inga:
I'm not voting for Romney.
What in anything I said here causes you to ask again?
Your defense of Ryan obviously is merely defending your politics and truth as you see it, am I right? So, I would say no, just curious.
Why did Biden avoid drinking water?
He was in fear of weakening his Poli-Grip.
Please explain how it is absolutely impossible for a policy to be both "dumb" and yet "benefit" people. I just showed an example of such a policy.
Agreed. It's definitely possible.
But in this case I don't think it's analogous. Ryan was requesting milk that no one was forcing him to ask for or receive.
Inga:
No. I'm only incidentally defending Ryan. My issue was the quality of a particular argument, in this case, made against Ryan.
I'm more than willing to say the same to anyone making an exceedingly dumb argument in behalf of Romney, I'll try to watch for one.
But that one, from Garage, was a real prize-winner, and it has gotten a lot of currency, so I thought it merited attention.
I don't even know that I said whether Ryan was right or wrong in the letters he wrote. If I cared to find out, I'd probably conclude he was wrong, but I'm not sure. I don't consider the issue itself terribly meaningful; because even if the argument were valid, it amounts to, "he's a hypocrite"--which, speaking broadly, is most likely true of almost any politician. Terrible; whatcha gonna do?
Well, one good thing is the Clintons are finally dead politically.
Yes, it's hypocrisy and both sides do it and both sides call each other on it. So I don't see anything wrong with Gargage pointing it out, because as surely as the sun sets in the west someone else is sure to point out Democrat's hypocrisy.
So the question remains, who to vote for? How much hypocrisy should be tolerated?
Inga:
I don't mind Garage pointing it out, when he uses a valid argument. But he used an exceedingly dumb one.
If you want to defend it, go ahead. I was going to let it go.
Amartel,
Of course. The sinister Water-Drinking-Throat-Clearing Cult.
acm,
Who knew that the first sign of heart disease (which killed Ryan's father) was throat-clearing?
I said "an excessive amount of throat clearing". (God, I wish you guys would learn how to read, and direct your comments towards the words said and not your assumptions - it gets tiring.
Ryan's entire RNC speech distracted me with the guttural noises he'd make before almost every sentence (just as I get distracted by Obama's elongated use of the word "and") because normal people simply don't do that. I spend a lot of time listening to speeches, editing people speaking, and there's no aggressive "umpf" before almost every every line.
As far as working out goes, yes, this society is now obsessed with a lighter form of the Nazi "superman" eugenics theory, pushing "wellness" on us (AKA health beyond health) under the slogan of the Hitler Youth, "Mind/Body/Spirit." They're telling what we can eat (organics, natural) and what we can't (salt, sugar) with no regard to us as free adults with minds or choices of our own - especially not those of us raised on Sci-Fi and looking forward to a future of eating pills for dinner. Fuck that - instead, we'll do as we're told.
I know a LOT about Nazis, NewAge, and slavery, Folks, and have never been impressed by their "accomplishments" in any form:
Including remnants of them surviving past The Third Reich,...
Father Marrin Fox minces Garage Mahal and confuses Inga.
Logic, Garage, was perfected by the Roman Catholic Church and one would be unwise to attempt to argue with someone and not recognize you are being taken limb from limb. Going all caps was rather Bidenesque and a tribute to your progressive creds.
Inga, one sees, sees no evil. Because everyone does it. Inga is poorly educated and not well read.
Fr Martin Fox,
I greatly admire your patience.
And while priests do not make our Church, your example here makes me ever more proud to be Catholic.
Thank you.
I love when liberals get cornerd and are proven wrong they always (always) spout the "both sides do it" canard. Lazy.
Obama and the democrats are/were in charge of stimulus and Obamacare.
Own it.
Inga:
I tend to think about politicians in a different way.
First, I seek to avoid voting for any politician who endorses intrinsic evil (obviously as my values define it). I rule them out.
From who's left, I am reasonably comfortable voting for a fairly hypocritical pol who I think has sufficient incentives working on him that he is likely to pursue policy I favor. Nothing is certain.
Romney and Ryan fail the first test for me, but even if they passed the first, I think they fail the second. I.e., I don't believe they are going to advance meaningful good policy, no matter what they say. And what they say is thinner gruel than it seems to many who are enthusiastic for them.
"So the question remains, who to vote for? How much hypocrisy should be tolerated?"
This question would be more valid if the previous four years had not happened.
But they did.
Double down on failure, or vote for change.
Your call.
Although you know which way I think you'll go.
I might add; when the Son of God returns, I'll gladly vote for him.
Until then, I work with what we have. Politicians are--or are likely, eventually, to be discovered to be--hypocritical. So making that a thing seems unwise to me.
"Romney and Ryan fail the first test for me, but even if they passed the first,..."
I am curious.
How do Romney/Ryan endorse intrinsic evil?
Thanks for answering Father, I respect your opinion.
Michael, I'm sure the good Father is quite impressed with your superb education and keen wit.
Re: asking for money for your district, from a program you opposed.
Folks, is this really so hard to understand?
It's perfectly reasonable for a legislator to oppose a national policy proposal.
If the proposal becomes national policy anyway, it would be irresponsible for that legislator to not seek to benefit his constituency from that change in the status quo. After all, they are paying for it.
Also, opposing a policy proposal because one thinks it is likely that much of the spending will be useless or corrupt, does not mean that it is therefore impossible to use that policy to do useful, non-corrupt things.
What might be hypocritical would be publicly opposing the proposal, while simultaneously and secretly attempting to funnel money from it to ones district. However, this kind of questionable behavior is probably the norm among legislators, so I can't get too bent out of shape about it.
Both sides do it, so, whatever.
I see Fr Fox made most of my points just a bit earlier...
Tim:
Mr Romney endorses some abortion; how much varies.
He told CBS news he favors abortion in the case of rape, incest, life AND HEALTH of the mother. The rape and incest exceptions are morally indefensible and incoherent if one claims to believe an unborn child is morally a person. The "health" exception is so wide it allows for almost everything. If I recall correctly, President Clinton used to say that.
Mr. Ryan corrected this last night, so we are back to "rape and incest."
Beyond that, I am very curious to know where they stand on torture.
Father Fox,
Thank you for your answer. I understand and appreciate your position.
On the matter itself, I completely agree with you.
I wish it were possible to elect absolute pro-life candidates president, but I don't think it is, now.
In that light, Romney/Ryan are far less evil than the incumbents, so that's how I'll be voting.
I hope we can change that in the future.
Thanks again. Go in Peace.
If he's on a low carb diet you don't retain as much water because your kidneys work like normal. That's my best idea. Especially because he's a health nut, if he's ever mentioned low carb or Paleo, that could be it.
He is drinking water after the interview with the jerk in Michigan who wants to fix crime with the budget. So my guess is it's a health thing
"Beyond that, I am very curious to know where they stand on torture," lied Fr. Fox.
Mark Shields on PBS and David Brooks along with Judy Woodruff (SO of Al Hunt) said that Biden was Most Terrific. Brooks added that Ryan was a pigeon, very much off his game.
SO, I WAS CORRECT.
BIDEN FINISHED OFF RYAN.
I love Stephanie Cutter. Any help to set-us-up will be most generally appreciated.
@Fr Martin Fox
So say a guy was staying at a hotel and wanted to take a dip in the hot tub, and say there were a bunch of hot naked women in the hot tub, that guy would have to join in?
After all, he's paying for it!
Harrogate:
You called me a liar.
Prove it.
Serious level of actual proof is now demanded, promptly, or else you are demonstrated the liar.
Garage:
No, he doesn't have to, but...if he does, how is that hypocritical?
In fact, what does that have to do with anything?
First, I seek to avoid voting for any politician who endorses intrinsic evil (obviously as my values define it). I rule them out...
Romney and Ryan fail the first test for me...
Some kind of man of the cloth we have here..
He would vote for a man who backed infanticide, as Illinois legislator, twice, rather than for a pro-life candidate... thats weird!
I'm calling bullshit on this so called minister Fox.
Lem:
Who is this advocate of infanticide you assert I am voting for?
Obama. Who voted three times for a law that would allow the murder of infants who survived a botched abortion.
When you vote for Obama that is who you are voting for.
Someone who could sign on to that.
Lem:
Please cite when I said I was voting for Obama.
Now.
Garage. Read Father Fox's examples again and then read yours. His point is not that you must but that you may. A distinction with a difference. In your case ii would guess your would decide you must enter the hot tub. Assuming there is room. But that, of course, was not Fox's point. You do see that don't you?
You are the one saying you rule out voting for any politician who endorses intrinsic evil...
Not me.
I NEVER said I was voting for Obama.
Anyone who says so is a despicable liar.
Fr Martin Fox,
Lem:
Please cite when I said I was voting for Obama.
Now.
I keep warning these guys about letting assumptions be their guides:
They simply don't listen.
Lem, you know I love you, but,...damn.
You just got caught,...
Absenting from voting is voting for the status quo.
Lem:
Please explain how saying i wont vote for Romney means I WILL vote for Obama.
Now.
let me repeat that!
Absenting from voting is voting for the status quo.
Absenting from voting is voting for the status quo.
Gosh Garage you',re not doing so well in this discussion. I'd put the shovel down
Absenting from voting is voting for the status quo.
Do you want me to repeat that?
Lem:
You are an idiot or a liar...
Or you will admit you jumped to conclusions and you apologize.
Which will it be?
Baron Zemo,
When you vote for Obama that is who you are voting for.
Fr Martin Fox,
I NEVER said I was voting for Obama.
Anyone who says so is a despicable liar.
Talk about hitting a bullseye!
You're down, Baron,...
Obama would love for a lot of people to stay home.
You are an Obama supporter masquerading here as holier than thou.
You are a fraud mr Fox.
Know offer $1,000 for charity upon anyone proving I said I will vote for Obama.
I will write that check upon proof being offered.
Name the charity.
I never said any such thing and they are liars who say it.
You are an idiot or a liar...
I got you.. sir.. And a man of the cloth would not be speaking like that. Unless he wanted to borrow a page from VP Biden.
Lem, Father Fox has said in past threads that he was not voting for either candidate.
Lem --
I'm so sorry to see you forfeit your integrity.
You pile lie upon lie.
I never said I wasn't going to vote. Lie.
I never said I'd vote for Obama. Lie.
Prove it.
$1,000 to charity when you do.
Lem you owe Father Fox an apology.
Lem is not a liar.
And the father must be a jesuit.
They love to split hair.
No wonder he likes Biden.
Lem,
Absenting from voting is voting for the status quo.
Lem, it is not - that's a bogus "peer pressure" formulation, thrown at me for some time now, which has no merit.
Every American has a right to vote for who they please, or not, and neither is a statement on the outcome. We are free people. Camille Paglia just announced she's voting Green Party. Conor Freidersdorf (sp?) is voting Libertarian. I'm not voting at all.
None is endorsing Obama or Romney - that's what our votes (or non-votes) mean and this schoolyard psychology bullshit doesn't change that. If our positions "mean" anything else, it's what the Father said:
We will NOT endorse evil.
You will, apparently, so that's on you.
We won't,...
Know offer $1,000 for charity upon anyone proving I said I will vote for Obama.
As I have explained ad nauseum... a vote for neither is a vote for Obama.
Not voting for either is voting for Obama.
You are voting present.
Just the way he did his whole career.
Michael
That we can't even trust Paul Ryan how to spend our money. Yes I got it. Do you?
Lem is either a liar, an idiot, or he made a mistake and will apologize. His choice.
I never said I'd vote for Obama. Let he who says so prove it.
I never said I would not vote. Let him who says so prove it.
And when did I say I liked Biden?
Why did Biden laugh and smile so much?
Why did Ryan drink water?
Why?
Tell Me Why.........
Such important and perplexing questions.
tits.
Lem:
I'm not letting you up.
You said I was going to vote FOR Obama.
Now prove that claim or apologize.
Father Fox just breath in and relax.
This is just some blog posting board.
Don't get worked up.
Enjoy, the weekend is here!
and
tits.
Let me ask you this Father.
Would you deny Joe Biden communion?
Ok Crack.. you might be technically right about that.. peer pressure thing.. you are your own man.. nobody influences you on anything..
What gets me is this... so called Father coming in here and talking about evil coming from Romney.. and leaving out Obama.
When Obamas infanticide record speaks for itself!
How ignorant of you Lem, Father Fox won't vote for either one because they BOTH allow for abortion. He is being TRUE to his beliefs.
I don't agree with the Father, but wouldn't think of disrespecting him the way you just have.
And I said you must like Biden because you like to split hairs.
I am sorry if that is not true.
Baron --
Oh no, no switching the subject. YOU called my integrity into question. Lets deal with the accusations you helped make.
I'll be happy to address that question when the deck is cleared.
Alex said...
Does garage even understand how wealth is created?
No.
When somebody says they are not voting for Romney because he is evil bla bla bla.. it is a natural response to assume the person means to vote for the other guy.
Think of me what you will for that.
Lem --
You made the accusation. Back it up. Now.
I will write a check to charity for $1000 when you prove your claim that I said I will vote for Obama.
Lem:
It would become you simply to apologize for making a hasty assumption.
Lem,
As I have explained ad nauseum... a vote for neither is a vote for Obama.
Dude, come on, you're being deliberately hard-headed now. Don't let this election drive you over the deep end, too.
You're better than this, Lem, I know it:
Apologize.
You're simply - and obviously - wrong.
As wrong as those who say I must support Obama because we're black.
These type of formulations exist, but that doesn't make them facts,...
Garage. I would lie down if I were you. You seem to have lost it. You could be a candidate for stroke or heart attack and as much as I dislike your politics I would not want either of those things to happen to you. At least not until duck season is over. Or the spring bite.
And yet.. as I consider the Father's position.
There something that rubs me the wrong way about a "father".. man of the cloth.. telling people he is not exercising his civic duty... and seemingly using religion (Father Fox brought up evil in the context of politicians) to justify himself.
Name the charity.
I apologize if I misunderstood that fact that when you said that you would not vote for Romney ....that it means that you would ipso facto that you would be voting for Obama.
I now understand that you are throwing your precious vote away like that loon the Crack Emcee.
My apologies.
Fox is not a Jesuit. Jesuits have no patience for fools.
Crack see my comment at 7:37.
The Christian Brothers taught logic with a paddle or their fists.
Lem:
Stop while you are behind.
WHEN did I say I wasn't exercising my civic duty?
You are LYING.
STOP.
For your soul's sake.
I'll be happy to address that question when the deck is cleared.
Some "father" we have here.
Lem, it's just common sense to presume that if he thinks Romney is wrong on abortion, he thinks Obama is even more wrong. Why did he need to bring Obama into it?
It speaks for itself.
Fr. Fox,
You can always insist something is in your heart. But readers of the blog have no reason to believe you give a good rat's ass about the torture issue. You've harped and harped on "teh gays" and on abortion. Then you're "curious" about torture. Whatev.
WHEN did I say I wasn't exercising my civic duty?
So you failed to be clear.
You are voting for some nobody.. why didnt you say so?
Fr Martin Fox, you are not exhibiting Christian traits here. You shoud shut the fuck up.
*should
You might still be excercising your civic duty by throwing your vote away but I am pretty sure it is a sin of omission.
Turning away from evil is not the way to go.
Who can set me up with SC at the WH? I will give you the details of the POTUS debate prep if you can help me.
We can set you up but we can't pay for your condoms.
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