"... by his assailants before they killed him. This is obviously false since his assailants did not kill him face-to-face. He was murdered, of course, but he died from asphyxiation by smoke inhalation in a burning building."
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196 comments:
I'm pretty sure that, at this point, no one knows exactly how things went down.
I would not be at all surprised at anything we eventually learn.
Link goes to a pro-Obama hate site.
Since ALTHOUSE is part of the vast Right Wing Conspiracy, perhpas you can flag some recent Libyian rape postings?
"Link goes to a pro-Obama hate site."
I told you where the link went. It's no more of a "hate" site for the left than Free Republic is for the right... is it?
What are the DU folks saying about the claim that Obama / State Dept had 48 hours notice of the threat?
I told you where the link went. It's no more of a "hate" site for the left than Free Republic is for the right... is it?
Usually, your sarcasm detector is better calibrated.
Poor Althouse!
I assume if we retrieve his body we will find out if this is true or not, but it certainly is possible considering Islam's take on sodomy, which is, it's prohibited by the Koran, unless, you know, there's a good reason for it. Jihad being one of those reasons.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/raymond-ibrahim/sodomy-for-the-sake-of-islam/
Oddly, the Tayyar website no longer seems to say it's sourcing from AFP. I don't read Arabic, but here's the Google Translation.
Died of aphyxiation? Where did the bloody hand prints come from?
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/09/bloodstained-walls-at-consulate-reveal-americans-were-dragged-from-building-before-their-death/
Also kind of bizarre that the update (cited in the DU article) doesn't indicate that AFP hadn't heard he was raped, from their sources, just that they hadn't confirmed.
I also wonder if the original attribution to AFP wasn't a result of imprecise google translation -- there's a few bits that show up in there as Libya's government killing the ambassador, suggesting that the translation engine isn't working quite right.
Who has/Where is the body of Mr. Stevens?
As already mentioned, pro-Romney hate site ?!?
until an autopsy is done, we aren't even sure of the exact cause of Steven's death. But I'm not holding my breath that any signs of assault will be publicly revealed.
I'm not going to DU so... which horrible RW sites are going on about this "news?"
Because I'm sure not going to google something with the word rape in it either.
April
Steven's body is on its way to Andrews AFB
I went to DU once. I haven't felt so icky since that summer college job at the waste water treatment plant.
Synova said...
I'm not going to DU so... which horrible RW sites are going on about this "news?"
It must be here, since according to our trolls we're a RW hate site.
The extreme right wing has approximately the same number of members as do the 'former members of Occupy' do.
Yawn.
Maybe they're confused with Darrin Stevens, from "Bewitched".
Darleen - Thank you. (and good)
Yeah, "Pro Romney Hate Site" to me reads like they're a site that's pro (for) hating Romney.
I kind of wish they had raped Stevens so, that way, there'd at least be a gay storyline that would immediately make his attackers more understandable and sympathetic in this country.
Coming from foster homes, that seems to be the way this society works now, anyway,...
This seems to be a controversy being ginned up by DU. DU admits the original source is some pro Ghadaffi site and the only thing now on the Washington Examiner is the disclaimer.
This reminds of the left;s preoccupation with Bush buying land for an escape to Peru which had the same weird sourcing, but since it was the left, was OK
I guess I never visit "pro-Romney hate sites" or encounter "RW conspiracists", because I've never heard this supposed rumor before now.
"Left wing hate site" would be redundant.
But I'm not holding my breath that any signs of assault will be publicly revealed.
Wince. Poor phrase choice for an alleged asphyxiation...
Crack made me LOL.
Oh wait... I have a "hate" site bookmarked... brb...
I scrolled half way down to find it, and this is what it said...
", and wish to emphasize — as Picket did in an update — that this is an unconfirmed report. Obviously a mob that would attack our consulate and kill four Americans is capable of anything, but we do not yet have confirmation that this reported atrocity actually happened."
Okay... so?
What does Bob Dylan think of anal rape?
Is there any hint in the fashion world that could help determine if Stevens was raped or not?
Would that even be rape-rape? Let's ask Whoopi before we rush to judgment.
Joy Behar can shine some light on this...her, or Bill Maher.
Jon Stewart should have some great ass-rape material on file. All great comics do.
Is Jay-Z on the down low, too? Is Beyonce a beard?
*Suggested angles with which to report the news of the day, Obama's USA, 2012.
Professor, calling DU a "hate site" is a fair characterization. They practice hate their every day, they ban alternative views, they spout crap, etc. How far to the left must it lean before you call it what it is?
I admit it. I hate the backward, blinkered, barbaric scum that killed the ambassador. Rape is neither here nor there. It couldn't make me hate them more. Does that make this an RW hate site?
*there
DU is ground zero for loony leftism. ignore as usual.
I heard the rumor yesterday on talk radio, but discounted it because of the unlikelihood that the Islamic terrorists had him long enough.
I think that the more plausible rumor is that the ambassador in Egypt had forbidden her Marines from carrying live ammunition. This is something that a muddle headed liberal would do, because it would, well, maybe incite violence, or something bizarre like that.
If he died of asphyxiation, what then are we to make of the photo of him being dragged through the streets? I believe the photo is at the same link that elkh1 posted.
"I think that the more plausible rumor is that the ambassador in Egypt had forbidden her Marines from carrying live ammunition"
Egypt =/= Libya. Though, I imagine, as more embassies get attacked, this thing will get more and more confusing. My favorite part was seeing a report: "Unrest spreads to Africa after attacks in Egypt."
What's sad is Obama's spokesperson came out and continued to say that all of this is in reaction to a You-tube video that no one watched.
How ignorant is Obama. Is he really basing his policies on ignorant beliefs like this? What moron would actually beleive that all of these protests and assainations are all related to the youtube video?
WHere is the press on this?
ONe would think that on the anniversary of 9-11, they would have upgraded security a little. How stupid can you be.
Wait, I've got the perfect rejoinder, the conversation-stopper on this subject.
No, wait again; it's not perfect for this situation.
I'll wait.
Matthew Sablan said...
"Unrest spreads to Africa after attacks in Egypt."
Hee-hee. So who is the president of Africa these days?
Shorter DU:
The outrage isn't that Soetoro's Middle-East Policy has failed, that Soetoro's State Department didn't provide a secure facility for the consulate in Benghazi, or that Soetoro slept through his Ambassador's murder; no, the true outrage is Romney speaking out against the failure of Soetoro's policy, and some blogging report that Soetoro's Ambassador was sodomized before his murder.
Sad thing is, too many idiots (Althouse house trolls arriving in 3, 2, 1...) will parrot this set of talking points as the *real story.*
Here's a better translation.
The Google translation is horrible.
"Hee-hee. So who is the president of Africa these days?
And does he speak African?
My heart goes out to Ambassador Stevens' family. Bad enough to lose a loved and respected family member in such an awful way, but worse to now see left and right (and whatever Althouse) is using his death for entertainment.
prairie wind, the Ambassador's murder was an important event. It's reasonable for people to speak out on it and have opinions on it. It'd be pretty stupid not to have any reaction to it at all.
"It couldn't make me hate them more."
And if visiting Althouse doesn't make you hate more, then it must not be a RW hate site, furthering the 'cruel neutrality' meme ever so slightly...
I've certainly never understood the reason for the rape claims, since the only claims I've seen about the deaths were from asphyxiation due to the fire...
(That said, the fact that DU is rallying behind it is an excellent reason to be suspicious of it, if previous experience is any guide.)
Synova: I've seen the claim of possible rape here and there, though I wasn't taking notes of where. Of course, none of them were places I'd consider "Right Wing Hate Sites", but I'm not a DU poster, and I'm pretty sure their standards for "hate site" are rather more lax than mine.
Fine, DU. Maybe they didn't rape him. (At least not while he was still alive.) They only breached the facility and brutally murdered the Americans inside and took intelligence files stored there and happened to leave Ambassador Stevens trapped and suffocating in the building they had set on fire.
What's the difference? Do we give the mob a special commendation for heroic not-raping above and beyond the call of duty?
Anyway, the only reports of this that I saw were clearly labeled as unconfirmed and single-sourced, even when they appeared inside comments. One item among many just as horrifying. Nothing "ablaze" about this except, of course, our embassies.
"I've certainly never understood the reason for the rape claims, since the only claims I've seen about the deaths were from asphyxiation due to the fire..."
The implications of the rumors I heard were that his body was sodomized after death.
It's really not that important. And, no, I don't expect to ever hear official confirmation of this even if it's true. It's not in this Administration's nature to trust its subjects with such dangerously inflammatory facts.
So they're necrophiliacs in addition. Interesting!
Among some people, a rape might seem like a high-fiving event. Rape can be a vector.
What exactly is a "hate site" anyway?
I'm confused about this post for a variety of reasons
Why is Althouse posting about people at a nonsensical site making unsubstantiated claims that other undefined but opposing groups are making unsubstantiated claims about a largely irrelevant possibility?
Group A: I fucking hate group B. Also, Person C was murdered.
Group B: I fucking hate group A. Also, Person C was raped and murdered.
Group A: ! Did you hear the vile like that Group B just said? Now I really fucking hate those guys!
Me: ?
"But many RWers will "know" this story is true to their dying day."
Based on the evedence they present there, it is unclear if any "RWers" believe this.
OTOH, we do know that at least one left winger is of the view that, "many RWers will "know" this story is true to their dying day."
So the story is revealing, though possibly not in the way cthulu2016 had hoped.
Another day on the internet!
Another hysteria!
I guess the Althouse "war against trolls" must be over. I can't imagine a topic more likely to generate useless fighting, and less likely to add to anyone's edification.
How ignorant is Obama.
This should be a post all by itself. The comments would go on for days and days. And with no repeats.
Bob Ellison, I went back and read through the comments and...maybe I generalized my reaction to a couple of specific comments.
The rape issue is irrelevant. We already have abundant evidence we are dealing with barbarians --- both in the Middle East and in our media. As the link above shows there were at least some people taken from the embassy alive and they no doubt suffered a much worse fate than asphyxiation.
There hasn't been one tenth the outrage from the press about the death of our ambassador than there was over Romney standing up for Western values and daring to criticize something the State Department did. The press is every bit as fanatical in their protection of Obama as the Islamists are in their protection of Mohammed.
Even if Obama wasn't a failure in every regard this sort of creepy, mythologizing, cult of personality which the press has created should be enough to warrant his removal from office. It has gotten so bad that the only way to even know what is going on is to read foreign news sources.
Hey. I think this report is more important than whatever DU is talking about.
Awkward.
Since the DU provides no links to any of the alleged sites, it appears their post should be titled "How a Vile Qaddafi loyalist Claim becomes USA LW dogma to blame on the RW"
Could this all be a false flag operation designed to aid in Obama's reelection? That is, was the embassy personnel purposely under-protected and the Muslims incited? Bonus, Hillary is left holding the bag.
Sloanasaurus,
"ONe would think that on the anniversary of 9-11, they would have upgraded security a little. How stupid can you be."
Oh, the dial on their stupid meter goes to 11!
I have no interest in sites I never read reporting factual inaccuracies found on sites I never read. But I am very interested in commenting on sites I do read about sites I never read reporting on sites I never read. And I hope people who never read my comments will read my comment about reading sites talking about sites I don't read reporting on sites I never read.
Apparently, Obama is denying that he received any intelligence reports that there was a threat to the embassy in Libya on 9-11. THus, there was no reason to have any security.
What planet is Obama on. Isn't it a given that we should have increased security on the anniversary of 9-11 no matter what. Does Obama even remember 9-11? Does he recall what it was about. Does he assume that killing Bin Ladin was the end of the war and that everything would be at peace? What an idiot.
The rape charge is based on what they did to Qaddafi- sodomizing before death ( with a knife or stick) prevents entry to heaven due to impurity. ( nice that god ignores whether the person is good or bad)
The story gets murkier too, today on the news the version is the consulate was hit by 150-400 fighters, no guards. No demonstration either before. Totally planned. Supposedly the guards left because of reaction to the film ( more likely to save their asses)
There are bloody fingerprints on the pillars where it happened. Someone was trying to hold on. Who it was is a mystery
Story just keeps evolving
This is the first I've heard about it. Lets ask Lara Logan if something like that could possibly happen. The Ambassadore was missing for at least 8 hours so who knows what could have taken place in that time.
The one picture I saw of Stevens, his shirt had ridden up and there appeared to be a huge bruise on his upper back. I think there is a huge difference between dying of smoke inhalation and being beaten and perhaps tortured to death.
Heartbreaking coverage of the bodies coming home.
Apparently, Obama is denying that he received any intelligence reports that there was a threat to the embassy in Libya on 9-11. THus, there was no reason to have any security.
An intelligent assumption would be that every embassy, consulate, etc in the Middle East needs more than the usual security.
As an Althouse hillbilly, I'd have expected to hear about the rape here first. Have I been going to the wrong site all along for my pro-Romney hate needs?
Apparently, the DUh crowd thinks if Stevens simply died of asphyxiation, well, that's not so bad.
shiloh said...
As already mentioned, pro-Romney hate site ?!?
As opposed to DUh?
mittens hyperbole train wreck lemmings
<<<<<<<>>>>>>
:T ;S :Q ;N
Three on a match
Nonapod said...
What exactly is a "hate site" anyway?
Anything that doesn't tow the Lefty line.
"It's no more of a "hate" site for the left than Free Republic is for the right"
Spend a little time at each, and then report back.
I guess that after fucking goats for years, a man might look pretty good to a crazy person.
Going Home.
DU! Man, I haven't been to DU in years. I still remember the post wherein one of the brilliant minds on DU setup a chicken wire cage in their backyard and set it on fire attempting to prove that the WTC was destroyed from within using C4. Smart ones they.
"It's no more of a "hate" site for the left than Free Republic is for the right"
The irony of this statement is that Freepers reportedly hate Romney as much if not more than DUers. So both sites are virulently anti-Romney, i.e. pro "Romney hate."
I wouldn't know, since I visit neither.
Is it true?
I don't know, and neither does anyone else without major inside knowledge.
Is it possible?
Sure. We really have no clear information when, where and how the ambassador died. The death was a terrible one, rape or no rape. You can be sure of that.
Does it really matter?
I see how one can argue that it does, but in my mind his murder can't be made uglier or more reprehensible.
It's hardly debatable this his murderers would have made his death as painful and humiliating as they could.
And... here it is
Good speeches by Obama and Clinton at the return of the four murdered victims' remains. Tellingly, they refused to lay the blame on a disrespectful American film. That was Jay Carney's job earlier this morning.
In order to "receive intelligence reports" you either have to attend meetings or read the minutes.
In order to "receive intelligence reports" you either have to attend meetings or read the minutes.
Allie--didnt see the coverage of the Ambassador, his fellow FSO and the Marines coming home. Its too bad Mr Obama does afford the same sensitivity to the continuing flow of American bodies coming home from A-stan. And let me assure you, I hope your daughter is not one of them. From Mr Obama's point of view, I suspect--his advisors told him that he needed to do that--not that, of course, he would think of that on his own.
Mr Obama is a piece of shit. Posturing over dead bodies is the lowest of the low--and Mr Obama does not disappoint.
I often wonder if the internet has exacerbated or just illuminated the despicable mindless vicious nature of political disagreement. Is DU a "hate" site? Are some of the RW sites? Isn't vicious, ugly, ignorant and dishonest enough?
Rialby said...
And... here it is
Classic.
Never let a crisis go to waste as Dems have learned their lesson well from Ailes/Atwater/turdblossom.
And clueless Romney not only doesn't mention Iraq/Afghanistan during his convention speech, but also doesn't thank the troops serving in harms way overseas.
My how the former party of foreign policy/national security er Reps have fallen. Indeed as (8) years of inept/incompetent Cheney/Bush changed everything.
Again, thanx Dick/George!
The right has seized on rape, it was repeated last night as true by that drooling moron Sean Hannity on Fox News. (Hannity is as repulsive as Sharpton or Maddow on the Left).
Not surprising. Just as the Left has their rape narratives, the Right loves a good rape tale.
Remember PVT Jessica Lynch, medal of honor fighting to the death Hero Jessica gang-raped by Arab savages?
As true as the rape tale the whore in the Duke Lacrosse incident told that was gobbled up by the Left.
My heart goes out to the families of the slain embassy staffers--how hard it must be to see your husband's body paraded around like a piece of garbage. I can only wish them peace in the fact that he did his duty. And is now sacrificed on a partisan shit storm.
God bless the family members of the slain embassy staff--and god damn mr Obama and Hillary Clinton--
The DU comments are pretty funny. "Isn't Qaddafi dead?" inquires the first, confused. "Yes but that detail barely slows some folks down" says "Cthulu" who is not slowed down at all and goes on to provide a random historical parallel and later explains that it is important to bump this story, not because of its disturbing but because it shows how the wingers are trying to influence an election by relying on Gaddafi followers for news. No projection there, Cthulu. DUH. Also, the story doesn't say what "right wing hate sites" are going nuts over this. I visit several sites that I'm quite sure would give Cthulu vapors but I've not seen anything about this.
shiloh said...
Never let a crisis go to waste as Dems have learned their lesson well from Ailes/Atwater/turdblossom.
And clueless Romney not only doesn't mention Iraq/Afghanistan during his convention speech, but also doesn't thank the troops serving in harms way overseas.
My how the former party of foreign policy/national security er Reps have fallen. Indeed as (8) years of inept/incompetent Cheney/Bush changed everything.
Again, thanx Dick/George!
Your comments would look really great if they were all in caps. I think you should go for it.
Heartbreaking coverage of the bodies coming home.
And the President is busy hanging with Jay Z and Letterman.
Heartbreak and anger.
The irony of Republicans hypocritically being the party of god and religion aside, god bless Roger J.
I used to spend much more time at this blog, but since I've decided to skip Shiloh and Crack's comments, I've become a much more efficient reader!
I would urge Tyrone to not bold quoted comments, but rather use italics as I don't need to see Shiloh's grammar-compromised rantings in that strong of typeface.
Tyrone, I'll bite ...
As a liberal, ((( thank god ))) for Willard Romney!
Sorry have never used caps as shouting is so childish! :-P
Roger, I wish the President, whether it was Bush or Obama would be there in person for every single troop that comes home in a flag draped coffin. It might make a President think more about involving our troops in foreign wars in which we not attacked.
And yes as any mother of any service member, please God no.
Someone give EMD a hug!
Roger J. said...
Allie--didnt see the coverage of the Ambassador, his fellow FSO and the Marines coming home. Its too bad Mr Obama does afford the same sensitivity
==============
Maybe it's just me, but the Oprahfication of America disgusts me.
And while America is heading down the toilet - instead of working his ass off to fix it, along with Cabinet members and people in Congress - they are instead supposed all for show? Meet the expectations of assholes in the media, the Left and Right? To all be obedient to the new "Empathy Expectation" that the Consoler in Chief and others must bypass all other responsiblities - be at every military casket arrival, at each "fallen hero Ambassador" arrival, handing out ice after each hurricane, that all tripe in the US and overseas have the need to visit "The Hero Wounded Warriors" before any other vital duty happens????
Fuck the casket ceremonies and visits to Haiti to hand out free diapers - that is luxury time if other critical duties are attended to. As useless as a President playing golf ...
Deal with an 18% effective unemployment rate. Instead of mournathons...work on why Muslims are killing us.
I read this blog daily but rarely comment - you all say what I am thinking better than I can. Buy I just have to add that Shiloh is the most incredibly rude, arrogant, ignorant, pathetic piece of shit imaginable. Are we sure he's not BO?
I note that Shiloh has mentioned me in one of his mindless posts--Heres a story you might want to note: In an action in Viet Nam, three company commanders were wounded (me included), two platoon leaders were killed, one of which was my scout platoon leader,and one of my squad leaders killed--to this day, I have a mass said for the troopers I lost on that sad day. I will remember them to the day I die. They were my band of brothers.
And you, Shilo, are an absolute piece of shit.
"rude, arrogant, ignorant, pathetic piece of shit imaginable."
Again, marylynn is the perfect edification of the Republican party ie god/religion etc.
Looking at photos of the compound in the British press, I have the following observations:
1. At least one long section of the wall that Administration sources have said was "fortified" is nothing more than a chain link fence, that anyone could penetrate in 5 minutes with a shovel, or in 1 minute with a pair of bolt cutters.
2. The vegetation grows right up to the wall and fence line in several photographs. No attempt whatsoever was made to clear a field of observation or deny concealment to any attackers.
3. A photo taken from across what appears to be the consul's main enterance shows a 2 story building, easily within small arms range. A shooter in that building could sweep the entire front clearing of the compound clean. It is unclear if embassy security held the 2 story building, but I doubt it.
3. The Independent, I believe, indicated that they had a 30 man Libyan security detail, plus a handful of Americans. This sized detachment is far too small to defend a compound of this size, plus the 2 story building, in 3 shifts. Yet the Administration characterizes the security there, which capitulated within 15 minutes, as "robust."
Here's the tweet President Obama sent as the 4 coffins were being removed from the planes:
Winter is coming, but these sweatshirts are perfect for fall: OFA.BO/rj5Tns
"I wouldn't know, since I visit neither."
Truly an expert on them, then. Glad you felt compelled to offer your opinion on them.
shiloh said...
Never let a crisis go to waste as Dems have learned their lesson well from Ailes/Atwater/turdblossom.
No, the turd is all on the little animal's side.
From 1857 on.
And clueless Romney not only doesn't mention Iraq/Afghanistan during his convention speech, but also doesn't thank the troops serving in harms way overseas.
Whereas uncaring Choom rolled over and went back to sleep hearing one of our embassies had been overrun.
My how the former party of foreign policy/national security er Reps have fallen. Indeed as (8) years of inept/incompetent Cheney/Bush changed everything.
Yeah, how many embassies were bombed/occupied/attacked back then?
lol lol lol
mittens mama grizzly lemmings Althouse
<<<>>>
K: I; 9)
You can't keep a good man down.
AllieOop said...
AllieOop - Roger, I wish the President, whether it was Bush or Obama would be there in person for every single troop that comes home in a flag draped coffin. It might make a President think more about involving our troops in foreign wars in which we not attacked.
Fuck the ceremonies for the Heroes.
Attend to critical job duties 1st. If our leaders have spare time - then hand out fucking bags of ice to needy welfare mommas after a hurricane or Personally do "greet and meets" with The Hero Families of the Hero Fallen.
(Would that asshole Bush had just spent 1/10th the time on looking at the looming fiscal disaster the bankers and financiers had been building with loads of warning signs 2003-2008 - that he spent with Hero Families of the Hero Fallen)
EMD said...
I would urge Tyrone to not bold quoted comments, but rather use italics as I don't need to see Shiloh's grammar-compromised rantings in that strong of typeface.
I take your point, but when I used to use italics it always seemed like an insufficient distinction between their words and mine. Besides, how do you italicize italics? Anyway, I hate it when comments don't make it clear when they are quoting someone else's comment. It makes for confusing reading.
Roger, I knew Rangers Led The Way, but you are the man.
My heart goes out to you.
Althouse, please give Roger J. and his kindred spirit, edutcher, a hug!
... is it?
Yes, it is. I remember the thread where they made up the Trig conspiracy story. They knew it was false and at the end one plaintive poster noted that it wasn't true, to be answered by the "all is fair in war" take common to the left. The left is always at war, it is how they have managed to ignore the murder of 100+ million people by fellow lefties. And yes, I think the current left is perfectly capable of such things if they ever acquire unchecked power.
Rialby said...
And... here it is
9/14/12 2:06 PM
That is a stupid experiment. It is not the temp that a substances burns at but the heat(energy) released, e.g. calories it produces. You have heat in and out. This so-called experiment is severely flawed in that the heat is easily dissipated, just to point out a blatant one. In a confined environment, the heat will build up and, even if you burn enough paraffin, soften steal.
C4--you are correct--now in terms of how we honor our fallen, when the political oprahfication goes away, our fallen are respected and honored by their comrades in arms.
what the politcos do, of course, as you rightly point out is oprahfication. I care little for the media coverage of these events--but I assure you that the sacrifice these men endured, will be remembered in the memories of their comrades. Anything else is bullshit.
Siloh: fuck you you wouldnt know heroism or sacrifice it it bit you in the ass.
...perfect edification of the Republican...
Edification? Geez, get thee to a dictionary.
Interesting liberal sites are quite happy, especially after the Dem convention.
Whereas con sites like Althouse are angry, depressed and deflated!
Again, the yin and yang of cons knowing Obama is gonna win, but having to give the impression Willard has a dog's chance in hell!
shiloh is confusing delusion with happy.
DNC was a massive circle-jerk, of course shiloh "got off" on it.
shiloh said...
Interesting liberal sites are quite happy, especially after the Dem convention.
When they sober up, it's going to be one Hell of a shock.
Lets not forget the Libyan rebels shivved gaddafi up the rectum before he died. We only know because they got it on video.
Edutcher--rangers do not lead the way--they are privileged to lead the troopers they serve with. A good ranger never forgets that. But I appreciate you kind thougts.
(Would that asshole Bush had just spent 1/10th the time on looking at the looming fiscal disaster the bankers and financiers had been building with loads of warning signs 2003-2008 - that he spent with Hero Families of the Hero Fallen)
"That asshole Bush" tried to address the housing crisis, but Barney Frank and Chris Dodd blocked him from doing so, after taking lots of sweetheart deals from the industries they were supposed to watch.
Then "that asshole Bush" tried to reform social security, which would have made the financial crisis much less severe, but was blocked from doing so by Democrats who demagogued the issue.
Then "that asshole Bush" was given a Democrat-controlled Congress. That Democrat-controlled Congress brought on and exacerbated the financial crisis. Bush could have vetoed, but it is clear that he believed that elections have consequences, that a body duly elected has a mandate from the people...even if they bungle the mandate badly, as Democrats did in 2007 and 2008.
If you believe that we get the govt we deserve, than there was no reason for President Bush to veto any of the laws passed by Barack Obama and the Democrats.
Please look again at the chart here:
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/
Even with the "Bush" tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the deficit was declining right up until 2007 (the result of the last budget that the GOP passed in 2006 before the Democrat wave took over).
Despite their incessant whining, the Democrats own the lousy economy, not "that asshole Bush".
Cause and effect, Cedarford. Progressives don't understand it, and it makes them incoherent. Despite your anti-semitism, you aren't enough of a progressive to be able to ignore cause and effect like they do.
RogerJ: I hope the masses you offer are celebrated at Holy Rosary! I went to Mass there every Sunday as a boy. Was an altar boy. Father Wiley.
I have many friends who perished in Viet Nam. I hope they were led by men like you.
Michael--thank you so much--and yes I have the masses said at Holy Rosary--If you so inclined have a mass said in your parrish for Lt Joe Lauinger and Sgt Willard Croy on the the 8th of January every year. It has been my privilege to meet with both of their families. I cannot repay them enough for their sacrifices.
Sue, I was upfront about the fact that my comment was based on hearsay. Which site was I unfair to-- Free Republic? Are there not a lot of Romney haters there? Anyway, I didn't mean so much to target FR with my snark but rather the reference to "pro-Romney hate sites."
But you're right that it was a lazy comment, just based on hearsay, so it was a cheap shot on my part.
Didn't know quite how to put it.
Re: Obama
Winter is coming,
Yes. Yes, it is.
lol. Lefties get off on "rape" fantasies and cuckhold fantasies, so this is pure projection.
Face it: the people watching black-on-white porn are neither the black guys nor the rightie guys, but rather the limp-wristed, self-loathing whiteys who'd like nothing more than to see their women mounted by an African stud while they're "forced" to watch, or be "raped" by a dark-skinned gangsta thug in prison.
So this is a projection of their sick fantasies---an Obama-loving goodie-goodie white guy being held down by swarthy, dark-skinned crowds and "raped."
All this sickness after Obama let their man die.
Abominable.
This link is actually the first time I ever heard that the there was a suggestion of anal rape.
Egypt =/= Libya. Though, I imagine, as more embassies get attacked, this thing will get more and more confusing. My favorite part was seeing a report: "Unrest spreads to Africa after attacks in Egypt."
Not sure of your point there. Yes, the two locations are some 700 miles apart. The allegation is that "[U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson] did not permit US Marine guards to carry live ammunition, according to USMC blogs. Thus she neutralized any US military capability that was dedicated to preserve her life and protect the US Embassy. " And, it was U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens and three others who died. Also notable though was that Stevens did not have a Marine security detachment with him, but rather some unarmed former Seal contractors, two of whom died - one while allegedly trying to find a weapon.
And on schedule, the "whores" moby/troll returns.
And on schedule, the "whores" moby/troll returns.
Yeah, where on earth did that come from? Cor.
And right on schedule, the David Brookses of the world come out to attack the person who tells the truth about the left.
I have just registered the domain proromneyhatesite.org and it will be up shortly.
"Remember PVT Jessica Lynch, medal of honor fighting to the death Hero Jessica gang-raped by Arab savages?"
She never told that story. She wasn't responsible for it and really shouldn't be trashed for it.
I took off the part where I explained, also, that at that part of the war they didn't even bother to train the support troops to use the guns they were given and it wasn't until later that they decided to give everyone bullets no matter what their jobs were behind the wire.
Which might be relevant to the weirdness of not giving Marines ammunition in Cairo or having "security" that is unarmed in a country like Libya.
Hmmm ... no parallels with the Iranian hostage situation and April Glaspie (the ambassador there at the time re: marines and defending the Embassy)?
Circa 1979 under Carter -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis
No history majors on the board?
_Jim
Oops (my bad) - Glaspie was Gulf War era:
April Catherine Glaspie (born April 26, 1942) is a former American diplomat and senior member of the Foreign Service, best known for her role in the events leading up to the Persian Gulf War of 1991. Glaspie was appointed ambassador to Iraq in 1989. ... She was the first woman to be appointed an American ambassador to an Arab country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie
Still, the events surrounding the Iranian Hostage crises parallel Obama and his (lack of) actions and clarity regarding OUR (the US's) will ...
Lets not forget the Libyan rebels shivved gaddafi up the rectum before he died.
This is a fact. And there is some overlap between those Libyan "rebels" and the recent Libyan "protesters."
Which explains why pro-gaddafi Libyan press might make up and propagate such a rumor about the ambassador's death (they did report it). But it also, unfortunately, makes such a rumor (unconfirmed Libyan press report) not inconceivable, not beyond the realm of possibility.
I very much doubt the rumor's veracity. (The fury directed at Qaddafi-- a mob turning on its dictator-- seems a special case.) But in the unlikely event it were true, I doubt American officials would report it.
Synova, I just read that the Pentagon denied that the Marines at the Embassy in Cairo had any weapons restrictions.
link to article
No reliable info on security in Benghazi, yet.
>> Sloanasaurus said...
Apparently, Obama is denying that he received any intelligence reports that there was a threat to the embassy in Libya on 9-11. THus, there was no reason to have any security.
What planet is Obama on. Isn't it a given that we should have increased security on the anniversary of 9-11 no matter what. Does Obama even remember 9-11? Does he recall what it was about. Does he assume that killing Bin Ladin was the end of the war and that everything would be at peace? What an idiot.
9/14/12 1:25 PM
Wasn't last year the first time Obama participated in any 9/11 memorial service?
I don't think Obama cares unless there's an opportunity to further his celebrity. (ie: 10 year anniversary)
I guess I never visit "pro-Romney hate sites" or encounter "RW conspiracists", because I've never heard this supposed rumor before now.
Apparently, Washington Times citing a Libyan news agency is the extent of the conspiracy.
Meanwhile the Obama campaign is citing Xinhua, which is a Chinese propaganda mill. That, however, is cool.
And clueless Romney not only doesn't mention Iraq/Afghanistan during his convention speech, but also doesn't thank the troops serving in harms way overseas.
Well, he managed to not show the ships of a different country at his Convention.
Can Obama make a similar claim?
Allie, did you read the whole article? Most people quoted in the post don't think that they had ammo. It wasn't the Pentagon's call to issue ammo. Shame.
Apparently, Obama is denying that he received any intelligence reports that there was a threat to the embassy in Libya on 9-11. THus, there was no reason to have any security.
Skipping more than half of his briefings and all since 9/5...I don't doubt that he didn't receive any reports of it. I doubt he even reads the PDB as is.
Obama's busy plastering "Vote For Me" bumper stickers on caskets.
Anyone think our media is going to drill him about politicizing our dead while looking like Bob Barker giving away brand new Cadillacs?
It's official. The news media is the official arm of the Democrat Party. They have become Pravda.
I just read that the Pentagon denied that the Marines at the Embassy in Cairo had any weapons restrictions.
It doesn't matter if it's true. That's the point.
I just read that the Pentagon denied that the Marines at the Embassy in Cairo had any weapons restrictions.
The ambassador has that decision.
And clueless Romney not only doesn't mention Iraq/Afghanistan during his convention speech, but also doesn't thank the troops serving in harms way overseas
Amazing -- a speech that wasn't about the war contained no mention of soldiers.
Well one thing's for certain: he's no patriot. A patriot would find a way to mention our brace men and women in each and every speech he made. :)
I'm surprised Ally the Obama Whore isn't dancing with joy at the idea of a white man being raped by dark skinned thugs.
Wait, because it would look bad for Obama....
What about Obama's gross attempt to suppress freedom with this story. It is now being reported that the White House has requested that Google remove the so-called offending video.
What is this? So if we are just living free here in our own country and some idiots claim they are killing people somewhere because of something we said over here, the government is going to come punish us. This is a sad thing Obama has done. He has no respect for freedom.
If Obama (his administration) really requested removal of the video, how could he possibly refuse to publicly condemn and request that the Scientology movie not be shown?
Allen, it appears that the Pentagon is refuting what all those other sources are saying, they have stated that at the Cairo Embassy, no restrictions were placed on weapons, by anyone.
"Pentagon Denies Reports That Marines At U.S. Embassy In Egypt Had No Ammunition
September 13, 2012
A Marine spokesman at Pentagon, Lt Col Chris Hughes, says these reports are false. He commented to Fox News on the record:
"“The Ambassador and RSO have been completely and appropriately engaged with the security situation. No restrictions on weapons or weapons status have been imposed. This information comes from the Det Commander at AMEMB Cairo.”"
Also, it's not as though anyone actually believes that anyone rioting actually watched it.
Or anyone condemning it in the US actually watched it.
iqvoice sez:
I guess the Althouse "war against trolls" must be over.
There are a number of ways of thinking about the post. The way I like to think of it is the democrat underground making a stink about something that may (or may not) have been falsely reported. As in "anti-trolling."
Another way of thinking of this is that the pre-report was false, also "anti trolling."
And yet a third is the attempt to set the record straight with her readers, also "anti trolling."
Anyway you look at it, it's an anti-troll post, but ironically, as you point out, it's hopeless.
I think I like the Crack's post most on this one. It keeps me safe in my partisan positions.
It seemed like a pretty outrageous rumor, Allie. Not impossible, but a bit hard to believe.
I hope that the quote you quoted says what it seems to say. I do, however, note the present tense. The Ambassador is engaged and there are no weapons restrictions. Two days ago the Ambassador was in DC and the remaining staff was tweeting without the ability to get their statements cleared. Who knows what the base-line policy at Cairo is concerning the Marines and their weapons and when or if it got modified for increased threat?
Allen, it appears that the Pentagon is refuting what all those other sources are saying, they have stated that at the Cairo Embassy, no restrictions were placed on weapons, by anyone.
"Pentagon Denies Reports That Marines At U.S. Embassy In Egypt Had No Ammunition
September 13, 2012
A Marine spokesman at Pentagon, Lt Col Chris Hughes, says these reports are false. He commented to Fox News on the record:
"“The Ambassador and RSO have been completely and appropriately engaged with the security situation. No restrictions on weapons or weapons status have been imposed. This information comes from the Det Commander at AMEMB Cairo.”"
There are many ways to parse that so that every word is 100% true, despite the Ambassador forbidding using deadly force, or refusing to allow ammunition to be dispersed, etc.
I know that your daughter being in the medical corps doesn't mean you should be familiar with militaryspeak, but that was a wonderfully-worded cya example. That way he can tell the truth w/o being in the position of calling anyone a liar, even if someone in the operational chain of command of the Marine Guards is.
Yes Synova, I noticed the present tense also, which is concerning, I hope they come out again and make it perfectly clear as to what the weapons status was on THAT night and before.
Allen, it appears that the Pentagon is refuting what all those other sources are saying
The correct word to use here is "denying" or "contradicting". "Refuting" means "proving to be false".
The story may well be false, but thus far all we have are conflicting reports.
Revenant said...
And clueless Romney not only doesn't mention Iraq/Afghanistan during his convention speech, but also doesn't thank the troops serving in harms way overseas
Amazing -- a speech that wasn't about the war contained no mention of soldiers.
Well one thing's for certain: he's no patriot. A patriot would find a way to mention our brace men and women in each and every speech he made. :)
===================
Right! Because America only exists to serve the Hero Troops and Hero defense contractors and support all the wars that we are heroically waging!!
Amazing when you look at WWI circa 1917-1918 how much similar we are to the HERO!! rhetoric that the Germans, French, and Brits spewed in every speech they made.
Didn't end with speeches. The Brits had "heroes-only" cemeteries proposed where not even the wife of the Hero could sully the hallowed ground. The French had heroes-only whorehouses. The Germans, not to be outdone, had sausages reserved for heroes only, and besides human heroes - built cemeteries for hero war horses and war dogs.
Those people could be excused somewhat. WWI was an existiental war.
BUt America has been at war for Freedom Lovers!!! 42 out of the last 50 years. Most in low-level wars.
Besides Hero Soldiers and Defense contractors and the Heroes of Homeland Security Who Keep Us All Safe....
We also have Hero teachers, Hero cops and firefighters, Hero government lawyers fighting the evil corporations and environmental despoilers. Hero doctors and nurses. Caring, nurturing hero mothers and hurricane compassion workers.
Must every fucking speech run down a checklist of the fucking heroes??
How about speeches that deal with specifics of economic recovery? Jobs? China and the Muslims? Our rotting schools and infrastructure?
Speeches that recognize accomplishment and don't dwell on victimhood or how merely showing up and participating in a uniform is worth endless recognition???
The actual condition related to security at the Embassy is *probably* classified, one way or another, on any given day.
Of course, if that were the case they could probably say so. But if I were in charge the guidelines for when weapons and ammo were issued and when my guards were unarmed, would at the very least, be need to know information. Basic OPSEC.
All the Romney apologists in this thread are duly noted!
yashu said...
Lets not forget the Libyan rebels shivved gaddafi up the rectum before he died.
This is a fact. And there is some overlap between those Libyan "rebels" and the recent Libyan "protesters."
Which explains why pro-gaddafi Libyan press might make up and propagate such a rumor about the ambassador's death (they did report it).
No, it isn't a fact. There is video of a rebel jamming a stick at the anal area of Gadaffi, but the dictator was fully clothed. There was no clothing penetration, let alone anal penetration without which there is no sodomy. Vicious beatings aside, the worst one can say about Gadaffi's anus is that he was 'goosed' with a stick.
Libyan press did not report the possible sodomy of the Ambassador, at least, not the report bouncing around the interwebs. A Lebanese newser, Tayyar.org, started the story by quoting AFP sources. AFP later denied they had reported any such thing and Tayyar removed the AFP reference.
Since when do we actually believe ME 'news' sources when we know we can't believe 50% of what they say half the time? The only way it will be known whether or not rape and sodomy took place is when a real autopsy is done and prob'ly not even then as neither government nor family will release that information.
All the Romney apologists in this thread are duly noted!
Please give us the actual list so we know who can expect a knock on their door, or a bashing in, late at night.
Yeah, he was "asphyxiated" and after that was hanging onto a wall with his bloody hands as he was dragged away by the mob.
AllieOop said...
Allen, it appears that the Pentagon is refuting what all those other sources are saying, they have stated that at the Cairo Embassy, no restrictions were placed on weapons, by anyone.
It's not uncommon for Marine guards to have no bullets in their weapons. I would doubt very much the Marines at our embassies and consulates in Canada or Germany are loaded for bear.
It is equally not uncommon for the overseeing agencies to deny the fact the guards are toothless. Remember, in Oct 1983 during the Reagan admin, the Marine guards in Beirut were bulletless when the suicide truck came barreling through to kill over 200 sleeping Marines. The authorities thought the sight of big scary M16s would be enough in a country where a kid's first gun isn't a Red Rider BB gun but a Kalashnikov.
Christopher Stevens was the stepson of a dear friend of mine, the son of his wife, whom I also know well, from a previous marriage. I met him once, several years back.
Honestly, if we are going to be debating whether he was asphyxiated or had his throat cut or was garroted or shot, and whether he was raped before or after, and was dragged around Benghazi before or after he died, please count me out.
shiloh,
Interesting liberal sites are quite happy, especially after the Dem convention.
Whereas con sites like Althouse are angry, depressed and deflated!
Yes, shiloh. Conservatives hear of attacks on our embassies and consulates, dead Americans (a more personal connection for me there, but never mind that), and spreading chaos, including attacks on the embassies of our allies. And whaddaya know, they're "angry, depressed, and deflated."
Apparently, per you, the same news makes Democrats "quite happy." Glad you're proud of that.
No MDT, your fellow hypocritical cons are angry, depressed, and deflated re: Obama.
And I was referring to this entire blog, not just this thread, but you already knew that pretending ignorance.
Actually, they're angry, depressed, and deflated re: Romney as many of them stated during the Republican primary process!
And Obama's inevitable re-election makes them angry, depressed, and deflated ...
We are "angry, depressed and deflated" because we are in mourning for our country.
Win or lose, this election has been about some of our society's least accomplished people, news journalists, waging, perhaps successfully, a sustained attack on one of the most accomplished presidential candidates in history.
It is about the banding together of economic illiterates to support one of their own kind as he destroys our children's legacy by amassing an unsustainable debt and putting them at risk with a dangerously credulous foreign policy.
Any sane person should be angry and depressed.
Shiloh even for a TROLL you are a hack and a miserable creature. It makes me overjoyed to be anything but a Democrat.
I don't want to know what Cedarford thinks of Progressive Jewish Heroes.
The more things change...
CnP From Wikipedia
The Beirut Barracks Bombing (October 23, 1983 in Beirut, Lebanon) occurred during the Lebanese Civil War, when two truck bombs struck separate buildings housing United States and French military forces—members of the Multinational Force in Lebanon—killing 299 American and French servicemen. The organization Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the bombing.
The blasts led to the withdrawal of the international peacekeeping force from Lebanon, where they had been stationed since the withdrawal of the Palestine Liberation Organization following the Israeli 1982 invasion of Lebanon.
The sentries at the gate were operating under rules of engagement which made it very difficult to respond quickly to the truck. Sentries were ordered to keep their weapons at condition four (no magazine inserted and no rounds in the chamber). By the time the two sentries were able to engage, the truck was already inside the building's entry way, armed.
shiloh said...
Actually, they're angry, depressed, and deflated re: Romney as many of them stated during the Republican primary process!
And Obama's inevitable re-election makes them angry, depressed, and deflated ...
You were in the Navy, right? I bet they had you doing a lot of painting in confined spaces.
shiloh said...
Actually, they're angry, depressed, and deflated re: Romney as many of them stated during the Republican primary process!
And Obama's inevitable re-election makes them angry, depressed, and deflated ...
No, the reason the little animal is being so monotonous is that his side is losing.
Quoting polls that are obviously inaccurate as well as slanted, mindlessly regurgitating the same shopworn talking points, provoking anyone who attempts to debate - clearly, he's in panic mode as are the rest of the trolls.
To recap - Foreign policy in ruin
Worst weekly jobs report in 2 months
Manufacturing down again
US credit rating downgraded again.
mittens hyperbole lemmings cons
lol lol lol
^^^^^^^mittens^^^^^
'R :t ;( %6
Never smile at a crocodile
Indigo Red beat me to it. It's pretty clear nothing works in the middle east. Since Pennsylvania is the Saudi Arabia of natural gas, we should disengage and let them fight it out on their own. However, that will never happen, so we will go from one clusterfudge to the next. and so it goes
"We are "angry, depressed and deflated" because we are in mourning for our country."
Just like your hero, wannabe C-in-C Romney, on the anniversary of 9/11 and Wednesday morning when the only thing on his mind was attacking Obama w/his lies and misinformation for political gain.
btw, how did that work out for not ready for prime-time Willard?
And edutcher seriously, are you Althouse's pet seal!
Here's one popular right-wing site that talked about these allegations, though with a "just asking questions, not saying I think this happened" tone. I don't know if this is enough to merit the phrase "all ablaze", but the story was put out there yesterday.
By the way, Obama's Intrade re-elect number as of a few minutes ago was 67.3%. Thus far, it doesn't look like the online political investor / gambler community is thinking that the events of this past week or the events of the political conventions were damaging to Obama's re-election chances.
And how many of those bets are made by Lefties stoking the "All is lost" meme some phony folksy's sockpuppet has been pushing?
shiloh said...
btw, how did that work out for not ready for prime-time Willard?
Last I looked, he was up by 3.
And edutcher seriously, are you Althouse's pet seal!
No, but you must be. Your pet wussy must be all hot for her to spend all day here.
#####Althouse####
You always hurt the one you love.
shiloh drooled: "the only thing on his mind was attacking Obama w/his lies and misinformation for political gain."
Have you ever had an original thought? This comes right out of the marching orders from the Obama campaign to the Obamamedia?
You are not just a troll, you are an ignoramus.
re: intrade.
So if Obama is at 67% to win right now, and I put down $100 on Romney to win, how much do I get if he does?
Slightly OT, is it possible that Intrade numbers could be influenced by a supporter with deep pockets to further the cause of a candidate?
I'm having a banana and peanuts. Fuck you.
Seeing Red,
It was a Lebanese paper? My mistake. And I specifically said I didn't believe it. My only point was that the origin of the rumor was a foreign press report, not a concoction by right-wingers out of thin air.
I agree that "the only way it will be known whether or not rape and sodomy took place is when a real autopsy is done and prob'ly not even then as neither government nor family will release that information."
Anyway, those murders by a mob were brutal and barbaric enough as it is.
Michelle DT, my deepest condolences.
hombre said...
shiloh drooled: "the only thing on his mind was attacking Obama w/his lies and misinformation for political gain."
Have you ever had an original thought? This comes right out of the marching orders from the Obama campaign to the Obamamedia?
You are not just a troll, you are an ignoramus
In his defense, he's a very bright sixteen year old.
Siloh doesn't care about our Foreign Policymakers Overseas -- he doesn't care if they live or die, only that Obama wins re-election.
Meanwhile, look around the ME and North Africa, to quote a recent movie "The Fire Rises," And the GOP is not in charge of the Executive branch.
Someone should remind Siloh that Obama is the Commander in Chief and its his job to protect these places, not the Governor of MA -- he doesn't sit in the Oval office.
Is Hillary responsible for the Marines not being posted at Benghazi?
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/14/Colonel-Says-Hillary-Clinton-Made-Decision-to-Have-No-Marines-at-Benghazi
Typical. I'm sure there will be no commentary from the media or the left.
Of course, the autopsy--and test results that erase speculation--aren't in yet. Photos show what looks like a bloody handprint on the wall, smeared as if the person making it were dragged away forcibly. And this is a society where Imams have issued opinions blessing sex with a deceased wife because her marital duties don't end with her passing. And such rulings are not rumors or slander, but a fact that can be traced back for centuries in several Muslim countries.
The speculation comes not from Righy-wing sources, but from Arab language websites and video-hosting sites--like the dozens of camera phone videos depicting the actual rape and sodomy of Laura Logan that appeared shortly thereafter that contradict her own story of fondling and nothing else. The key to finding the arab versions is searching in Arabic, not English--even at YouTube.
Not surprising that a loser like C-fudd has such bitter, seething resentment against people who actually accomplished something at least once in their lives.
Jumping back in a day later - the latest rumor is that the ambassador's dead body was dragged through the streets. Apparently a bunch of photos of this online on the American designed Internet using (mostly) American invented cell phones.
If this is true (and at this point, we don't know), it is may be even more problematic than if the ambassador had been raped.
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