Althouse: At the Rose Fly Café...

May 29, 2012

At the Rose Fly Café...

... you can talk all night.

46 comments:

Patrick said...: At one of the cafes in March, I commented that I'd had a good day, based upon what I thought was a pretty good oral argument at the Court of Appeals. Turns out I was right! The government overstepped its bounds and tried restricting my client's use of his property.

Sometimes being a lawyer is really cool.; 5/29/12, 8:17 PM
edutcher said...: Tell Rose to zip her fly.

Lovely pic, Madame. My sister's birthday is June 1 and the blooms we'd get outside our backdoor were always her "birthday roses".

Patrick said...

At one of the cafes in March, I commented that I'd had a good day, based upon what I thought was a pretty good oral argument at the Court of Appeals. Turns out I was right! The government overstepped its bounds and tried restricting my client's use of his property.

Sometimes being a lawyer is really cool.

We have a very good friend who does family law and, when she can, she tries to see that everybody wins - not always possible, much less easy - but what she said I always like, "I just want the lawyer to be the good guy once in a while".; 5/29/12, 8:21 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/29/12, 8:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Had a terrific dinner (vegan, of course) in Charleston, SC. Tomorrow breakfast in Charlotte, NC. We are making inroads on all Red states. To leave no stones unturned.

The GOP will find problems now through November. We were on the call today where Garry W. questions for Romney were discussed. He is on queue! Cory, should use him as a role model. You just wait, we have celebrities lined up to come out for the POTUS Obama every week from now thru election day.

By Labor Day, Romney will be over a dozen points behind. By October 1, he will have lost it.

Me thinks, he has already lost it. Why? The blonde from WH tells me this each night.

GOP voter: You need to win. Support us. Be a hero. Support a destiny. You will find the POTUS on Mt. Rushmore. Don't be a loser (by supporting Romney). Forget him.; 5/29/12, 8:29 PM
edutcher said...: To the surprise of no one, President Choom strikes again.

Poland is outraged after Little Zero described Medal of Freedom awardee Jan Karski as being infiltrated "into the Warsaw ghetto and a Polish death camp to see for himself".

Of course, the death camps were German.

Maybe Trump is right to demand his academic transcripts. It get harder to believe Zero didn't suffer sufficient brain damage during his exploits at Punahou to impede his scholarship.; 5/29/12, 8:31 PM
Patrick said...: It's sometimes nice to see lawyers be "the good guy," but clients rarely want the good guy to be their lawyer. When individuals are involved in litigation, it's about the money, but there is almost always something driving it along with the money. Hard feelings really make it hard for people to make rational decisions. When I can overcome that, I can usually get a good result.

In this particular case, not resolving the matter with the City was pretty easy.; 5/29/12, 8:37 PM
FedkaTheConvict said...: Today is the 164th anniversary of Wisconsin statehood. In the years preceding admission to the Unions, the territorial legislature resisted statehood citing increased taxation to support the federal government. It took at least three votes over several years before the territorial legislature agreed to become a state.

History will repeat itself next Tuesday as we repel the attempt of the Democrats and unions to expand government and again increase our taxes.; 5/29/12, 8:45 PM
edutcher said...: Patrick, she meant in the sense that everybody got what they wanted and no one felt cheated; a tough proposition, I agree, but she was talking about the honor and reputation of her profession as much as anything.

You know that many legal actions end with somebody feeling they'd been wronged.; 5/29/12, 8:48 PM
paul a'barge said...: Let's talk about Aaron Worthing.

Shoud he have represented himself in a court of law?; 5/29/12, 8:49 PM
Shanna said...: I don't suppose anybody wants to talk about why I can't find wedges under 5 inches? I have no particular desire to be 6 feet tall. No? Carry on.; 5/29/12, 8:55 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: I met a very sad family. The wife is a harridan of an order I wouldn't have thought to exist. Her husband and children wear the faces of beaten dogs. Her mouth issues criticism and nagging in a continual stream of consciousness, and her tone makes anyone in the vicinity wince. We've been around them several times; it's always the same.

What a shame. But what can one do? Not a thing, not a thing.; 5/29/12, 8:57 PM
Hagar said...: Several Nazi "death camps" were located in Poland. Since half or more of today's Poland has been part of Germany or the Holy Roman Empire in the past, most places in today's western Poland have dual names in Polish and German or the same name spelled differently.; 5/29/12, 8:58 PM
kristinintexas said...: Shanna, I'm with you. I'm 5'9", and while I don't have a problem with being tall (anymore), I don't understand why all heels lately have to be so dang high. I just want some cute shoes somewhere north of flat but south of nosebleed. *sigh*; 5/29/12, 9:05 PM
kristinintexas said...: Actually I read somewhere that the worse the economy is, the shorter the skirts and the higher the heels.; 5/29/12, 9:08 PM
Shanna said...: Actually I read somewhere that the worse the economy is, the shorter the skirts and the higher the heels.

Well maybe that explains it. I just need some brown sandals that aren't flip flops!; 5/29/12, 9:13 PM
Palladian said...: I can't believe I've survived 37 years...; 5/29/12, 9:15 PM
Paddy O said...: "Actually I read somewhere that the worse the economy is, the shorter the skirts and the higher the heels."

Well, it's certainly true for me.; 5/29/12, 9:19 PM
Paddy O said...: Palladian, Happy Birthday?; 5/29/12, 9:20 PM
edutcher said...: kristinintexas said...

Actually I read somewhere that the worse the economy is, the shorter the skirts and the higher the heels.

Other way around, at least for skirts. In the 20s and 60s, skirts went up; the 30s and 70s, they came down.; 5/29/12, 9:49 PM
Synova said...: Tomorrow is my 25th wedding anniversary. My mom sent me the family silver bowl. :); 5/29/12, 9:52 PM
KCFleming said...: Happy anniversary, Synova.
Happy birthdate, Palladian.
Happy legal decision, Patrick.

I built a square picnic table this weekend; metal base and wooden top. It was quite clear that the manufacturer had never actually built the table.

The measurements were, oh, 1.5 inches off, in total. Oops.

Rewired a wall sconce that quit working, too.

And my bro-in-law announced he wanted a "friendly divorce" from his sisters, at least, from the land they were given by their parents, meant to be shared. In Wisconsin that means it gets sold at public auction. Very sad, especially on Memorial Day.; 5/29/12, 10:08 PM
traditionalguy said...: Peace Rose is my favorite. Red ones are nice too, but they can't beat the Peace Rose.; 5/29/12, 10:15 PM
JAL said...: @Patrick Turns out I was right! The government overstepped its bounds and tried restricting my client's use of his property.

Well done.; 5/29/12, 10:20 PM
William said...: I recently read Churchill's account of his young life, My Early Life. He was born the grandson of a Duke and the son of a Parliamentary leader. In the Victorian era, that certainly gave you a leg up. Status anxiety was not one of Winston's problems. His only real financial difficulty was not being able to maintain a string of polo ponies while stationed as a subaltern in India.....There was some talk in another thread of how hard times and menial jobs are character building and whatnot. That was not my expeience, but I'll concede the point. I'd just like to point out that wealth and indolence are also character building.....If you're born poor, you spend an awful lot of time trying to convince people that you're significant and worthwhile. For the most part it's a losing battle. You're a negligible quantity of an inexpensive substance, and you get dusted off. When you try to stand out, the efforts stand a fair chance of making whatever sparkle you achieve appear slightly ridiculous-- like glitter dust on a sweatshirt.....The children of the wealthy and powerful don't have these problems. People have been differing to them, or anyway their families, all their lives. They don't have to prove the legitimacy of their existence or authority. It's a social construct. They have more time to think lofty thoughts and pursue higher ambitions....I suppose many of the high born run their vessels onto the rocks, but an appreciable number take the kind of brave voyages that we in the rowboats can only dream about.; 5/29/12, 10:28 PM
Synova said...: On the other hand, William, when only worthy work matters and all the poor people have to ape the rich or be even lower, socially, than they really are... you don't get Winston Churchill, you get Saudi Arabia.; 5/29/12, 10:32 PM
Palladian said...: Thanks Paddy & Pogo...; 5/29/12, 10:35 PM
wyo sis said...: Freeman
What you can do for her captive victims is try to be their friend in spite of it. I'll bet they have their share of friends coming and going, mostly going, to add to the burden. They need to see kindness and caring as an example that not everyone is that way. If the kids want to have successful lives they'll need to work very hard against their background. It's sad indeed. The worst part is we all know a family like that, although not always with an abusive mother.; 5/29/12, 10:55 PM
paul a'barge said...: I met a very sad family. The wife is a harridan...

Michelle Obama.

Straight up.; 5/29/12, 10:55 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Happy anniversary, Synova.
Happy birthdate, Palladian.
Happy legal decision, Patrick.

I second this! Good tidings to you all.

Especially exciting for you, Synova. Twenty-five, that's a major one. Hope you have a wonderful day.; 5/29/12, 11:22 PM
Ralph L said...: Me thinks, he has already lost it. Why? The blonde from WH tells me this each night
AP, that must be demoralizing to you. I'm told Viagra might help, but I have no first hand experience with it.; 5/29/12, 11:26 PM
Synova said...: Oh brilliant! I just posted a crabby comment to iO9 and it said "email" so I filled it in and now it looks like it's going to put it in the header...

I am sooooo screwed.; 5/29/12, 11:42 PM
Saint Croix said...: The wife is a harridan of an order I wouldn't have thought to exist. Her husband and children wear the faces of beaten dogs.

I think domination goes hand in hand with passion. The more passionate I feel about something, the more willful I can be about it. As I've gotten older I've realized that my passion can make me a monster. So then my options are to bottle up my passion, keep it to myself. Or work on feeling less, caring less.

In my youth I was way more laid back. My mom accused me of not caring about anything. So it's a weird kind of dynamic. The more you care, the more of a monster you can be.

C.S. Lewis used to imagine hell as populated by domineering types who want to devour souls. But the other thing I notice about Lewis is that he does not strike me as a particularly passionate man.

And of course for me passion revolves around sex. Lewis described sex as an appetite, and he used to complain about the appetites of other people. He said our sex appetite was way out of whack compared to our food appetite. And I guess if you see sex as appetite, then there can be a danger in devouring other people.

I had a girlfriend who would nag me all the time. We would annoy each other a lot, fight a lot. The sex was amazing.

I have an aunt. She would never fight. She was always nice, always. Put up with a controlling man for 20 years. Got sick of it, divorced him.

Married another controlling man, divorced him in five.

My mom--who is also as sweet as can be--also married a controlling man, my father. They're still married. Everybody in my family gives my dad a hard time. My mom says we're not allowed to own a gun because she would have shot my dad by now.

So, there you go.

What you can do for her captive victims is try to be their friend in spite of it.

That's so funny. My reaction was you could try calling her a bitch in public. The father would defend her, the kids would defend her, you would bring the whole family together.

And I'm only half-joking. Maybe she doesn't know she's a bitch. She probably thinks she's lovable. She cares. What's obvious to you is hidden to her. The conflict is there. Fighting just puts it out in the open.

I'll probably go to hell for bad marriage counseling. Call her a bitch! Start a fight! I just spread war wherever I go.; 5/30/12, 3:23 AM
edutcher said...: Congrats to Synova and Palladian (whatever our differences may be).; 5/30/12, 5:33 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Saint Croix, your comments interest me on a personal level. I should probably not go here, but what the hell.

Having marital difficulties because I am the passionate one in my marriage, and I am also twelve years younger than my husband which I believe is starting to contribute. He is steady and trustworthy and kind and good and works diligently at a fairly undemanding white collar job to support me and our four young children, and (bless him) he coaches our son's baseball team and is involved in little league administration. These two endeavors seem to just about tap him out. He generally prefers to spend his free time reading baseball blogs and/or watching TV.

Trying to coax any kind of enthusiasm from him for any kind of zest-for-life is like pulling teeth. Intimacy, hobbies, working out, travel, date nights, anything--if I say "I would like to _______, what do you think?" I get something along a spectrum of "Meh" to ten reasons why it won't work. He'll go along with it, usually, if I do all the work to make it happen, but he won't initiate anything himself. If I express my disappointment and frustration that I always, always have to drive the bus, and that it's hurtful to me that he's so unmotivated to do anything to enjoy life with me at his side, and tell him how much I love it and what a turnon it is for him to be decisive and purposeful, then he gets very defensive and I'm being "critical," "nagging," and/or "controlling." He just seems to want to be left alone. There was a time when he claimed to be in love with my passionate, energetic side.

I've thought about whether he's depressed; maybe. He's always been laconic and comfortable with routines, but he seems to be more so as the years go by. I think it's just him. I can't help but wonder what happens to couples like this: what does the passionate one do if the nonpassionate one increasingly wants to just sit in a little room? Stay home out of loyalty, or stride forth and live life and do the things she wants to do without a partner? Take dancing lessons with someone else? Travel alone? Obviously there's a specific marital danger in this approach, in which I am entirely (ok, 97%) uninterested, but how can that temptation be avoided?

(Freeman, my apologies for sidetracking your observation about the horrible woman and her poor family; Saint Croix's comments caused me to reflect about the role of passion in a marriage, specifically mine. I hope you are available to be friendly to that family despite the awful woman. It means a lot to a troubled family, particularly kids, to see what normal is.); 5/30/12, 7:04 AM
KCFleming said...: Erika,
That's typical middle-aged male behavior, to my eyes, especially common in introverts.

He's tapped out. No more emotional energy to give. Can barely handle blogs, but just barely. Four kids'll do that. It'll improve once they are old enough not to need so much supervision.

However.

I used to be the same way. But I saw how that behavior led to divorce a number of times. Even though in my view marriage supersedes all other demands, even for myself, I was devoting no energy at all to it.

Date night twice a month is a minimum. But it's a good start. And it teaches the kids that they are not the most important thing in the world. They are second to their parents, and must give them deference.

Otherwise you are just their employees.; 5/30/12, 7:17 AM
Michael Haz said...: Erika, I don't mean this to be a comment made in jest, but in seriousness.

Ask your man to have his MD do a test for testosterone and thyroid. Simple blood tests. Most men don't realize it, but the reason they become so lethargis in early middle age is the decline of both of those things in their blood.

Supplementing both makes a world of difference.; 5/30/12, 7:23 AM
KCFleming said...: Second that.

Getting him to go without being seen as nagging (again) is a tough one, though.

It'd be better to come from someone else, or a men's magazine. I dunno.; 5/30/12, 7:27 AM
lemondog said...: Any one see a 3rd hawk?; 5/30/12, 7:32 AM
traditionalguy said...: Erika... Let me share some things that I have learned:

Until the kids can leave the nest, you will have plenty to do. They can be a social place for you as a parent attending their activities with other parents. The key is friends who see you regularly. Also the churches have always been in business to provide that outlet to defeat lonliness.

After you get past the kids leaving, then form a circle of female friends who enjoy doing planned activities together. The best ones will have every age group in 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s etc. The group should include singles, marrieds whose husband stays home, widows, widowers, and the recently divorced. Put on dinners and parties at each other's homes and enjoy meeting new people they bring with them.

The lack of interest that he shows in you is cruel. And that makes him into a very difficult friend. But determine to be confident that he is just different and it is not any defect in you.

Dance lessons, golf lessons, and girl friends getting together for planned activities may become so much fun that you are glad that he stays home.

Life is a social event. When you seem stuck in a small circle, then enlarge the circle. Be a social director for others and surprisingly many attractive folks are in that same situation and will join your circle.

Then one day use your circle's clout to support a political candidate for a local city/county office. That is fun too.; 5/30/12, 7:44 AM
jungatheart said...: Erika, I agree with Pogo, he's tapped out. If he's an introvert, he's probably coming home from work emotionally exhausted. I would try a school year with no kid-related extra-curricular activites...coaching, scouts, etc. That might be enough to lower his stress to answer your requests. You go ahead and plan the dates, it's no biggie. Finally, treat him like a king when he gets home.; 5/30/12, 8:24 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: Erika, I would only add, not that I'm an expert, that it might be worthwhile to invest a significant amount of time in finding a group of female friends. I did that, and though I'm not in your situation, it has paid off. I now have friends I look upon like sisters. If you have such friends, you can enjoy all those things you'd like to do no matter how things turn out with your husband's social preferences and without any risk of impropriety.; 5/30/12, 8:53 AM
traditionalguy said...: First rule of life: We cannot change a spouse. Accept him and find a life for yourself that lets him stay home and dream about sports.

"Passion" is a word for desire that causes men and women to open their emotions. He desires sports dreams.; 5/30/12, 9:00 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: Oh, I forgot to describe how to do that. Go to everything you can. Join groups for women and groups for moms. Get on meetup.com. Get involved at church, an arts center, or something similar. Go to events. Talk to any woman you happen to be near. If she's even remotely interesting, introduce yourself. (This will feel weird at first, but that's how it's done. The other person generally appreciates it.)

If you do that for a while, you will meet a LOT of women, all kinds of women. Over time you'll figure out who you're compatible with for close friendship. There's your group.; 5/30/12, 9:01 AM
Christopher in MA said...: Coming in a bit late to the thread. Erika, I'd have to agree with the advice given you. As it happens, my wife and I share somewhat of the same situation (13 years, no kids). I'd prefer to sit at home and read than most anything else, and there are many times when we've planned to do something that I just back out because I don't want to go anywhere. But I encourage my wife to go out, make friends and do things, which she does. I support her and encourage her, and that approach seems to work for us.

As far as other topics - Palladian, Synova and Patrick, many congratulations!

I have no particular desire to be 6 feet tall.

More's the pity, Shanna. I happen to find tall women very attractive.; 5/30/12, 9:24 AM
William said...: Marriage lacks spice? I understand that there are some new drugs available that can add zest and elemental passion to the most ennervated relationship. Try bath salts on date night and see what thrilling adventure awaits you at the Olive Garden.; 5/30/12, 10:35 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: Thanks for the advice, folks. I'm definitely plugged into lots of networks (church, MOPS, the kids' sports and activities, my book club) and don't lack for female friends. I understand and honor how he needs man-time and undisturbed quiet and do my best to give that to him regularly. I would be less alarmed if we still had tiny kids, as that is indeed utterly exhausting, but the three oldest are in elementary school now and are less work. (Of which I do 90%, anyway.)

I know it's my job to accept him for who he is, or has become....but I'm in my early thirties, and having a hard time with the idea of spending the rest of my life unsatisfied in the intimacy department, and having to largely go outside my marriage for companionship if I want to do anything other than sit beside him on the couch and read our laptops.

Ah well. I guess that's really the only answer, to accept that and live with it, or to leave, which isn't a choice at all. It just would be a little easier to accept if he cared just a little bit that I'm unsatisfied and tried just a little bit to meet me halfway-but why should he bother, because he knows I'll never leave or cheat.

Thanks for the ears and the input. There's no one I actually know whom I can talk to about this.; 5/30/12, 7:10 PM