Althouse: "Laws do not allow teachers to use children for partisan political advocacy, but that has not been the case, particularly in Wisconsin."

March 31, 2012

"Laws do not allow teachers to use children for partisan political advocacy, but that has not been the case, particularly in Wisconsin."

"Elementary school children have been forced to take part in anti-Scott Walker activities, even those young enough to not have any real grasp of the actual political issues facing the world. Big Labor has made the classroom much more political than it should be."

A billboard in Madison.

104 comments:

edutcher said...: Oh, boy.

This is where we came in about 14 months ago.; 3/31/12, 10:48 AM
cubanbob said...: If Walker survives the recall election he should go for the kill and get the legislature to ban public employee unions. That would not only the best revenge but the best public policy for the taxpayers.; 3/31/12, 10:49 AM
massconservative said...: Actually, I have no problem with the left using little children as political pawns...hear me out. Knowing how contrarian kids are, in 10 years they will completely reject the ideas of the left and become radicals. Although this time they will become conservative radicals to "fight the power". Imagine being dragged to these noxious rallies as a pre-teen; with old-farts banging drums, screaming and acting like assholes in general. Any future self-respecting teen would have to reject that just on general principles!

A better alternative future than one where they wait until college to indoctrinate.; 3/31/12, 10:54 AM
rhhardin said...: It's pandering to women, not using children.

This wouldn't happen if we didn't let women vote.

My position is it's fine for women to run for office, not not to vote.; 3/31/12, 10:59 AM
edutcher said...: massconservative said...

Actually, I have no problem with the left using little children as political pawns...hear me out. Knowing how contrarian kids are, in 10 years they will completely reject the ideas of the left and become radicals.

That's why college kids love Ron Paul. They've been raised on by the hard-core Lefties in the teacher unions and now they're sick of the whole Lefty mindset.

PS rh, the dumbest thing we ever did was give women the vote.; 3/31/12, 11:08 AM
purplepenquin said...: Kinda funny how the article points out that the quote on the billboard is made-up.

Kinda sad that very few...if any...of the Anti-Union crowd will even care about that.; 3/31/12, 11:22 AM
Anonymous said...: "PS rh, the dumbest thing we ever did was give women the vote."

???; 3/31/12, 11:23 AM
garage mahal said...: If Walker survives the recall election he should go for the kill and get the legislature to ban public employee unions

He won't have the legislature to do that. He doesn't have it now. I doubt Walker even wants to be a governor without a total sycophantic legislature. He's never worked with anyone before, can't see him wanting to do it now.; 3/31/12, 11:43 AM
massconservative said...: The article say the quote is apocryphal...but that it is in line with a number of other quotes that have been verified. To wit; (from the article)

"The Wikipedia entry lists other quotations from Shanker that are not disputed, including some that would fit perfectly with the stated goals of READER-WI.

Such as this one: "A lot of people who have been hired as teachers are basically not competent."

And this one: "It is as much the duty of the union to preserve public education as it is to negotiate a good contract."

Never let the truth prevent you from smearing a group you disagree with...sad.; 3/31/12, 11:47 AM
Mary Beth said...: READER-WI's talking points are written in Waksman's trademark trolling style, which attempts to be mocking and sarcastic, but often falls flat. The group jokingly claims it gets financing from the Koch Brothers' oil empire and Bradley Foundation "blood diamond" sales, and adds, "Our talking points come directly from Faux News. Roger Ailes sends us e-mails each morning, pre-approved by Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Frank Luntz, Sarah Palin and Andrew Breitbart, that tell us exactly which lies to spread."

Does "falls flat" mean "repeats the same nonsense that their opponents always say"?; 3/31/12, 11:48 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Kinda funny how the article points out that the quote on the billboard is made-up."

Yeah, that's why I linked to that article (and I didn't put the quote that's on the billboard -- about representing schoolchildren when they start paying union dues).

That seems like a joke that somebody made a long time ago, like what somebody imitating the teacher's union president would have him say.

As such, it's a telling quote. It states a theory about what the teachers' unions do, and it's up to the voters in the recall election to think about whether that is what has been happening.

That is, it's a provocative parry in a debate about unions and education.

What then is the response to that parry?

If your response is to say it might not be a real quote... that doesn't matter enough. No one currently running for office is accused of saying it. It's an assertion about what the teachers are really doing.

In response they need to step up and convince us they are really first and foremost about the children.

If they take us off on the sidetrack of whether a union president really ever blurted out the truth so blatantly, I'm going to feel that they don't have a good argument on the merits.; 3/31/12, 11:58 AM
SGT Ted said...: I'm sure that the Union member lawbreaking is completely justified, because it serves the Democrats moneyed interest in the unions strength and because of the oppressed teachers of WI and their plight.; 3/31/12, 12:01 PM
purplepenquin said...: Never let the truth prevent you from smearing a group you disagree with...sad

Truth is that the billboard is using an untruthful quote.

Like you just pointed out, they could have used an actual/real quote but instead they decided to make something up in order to smear a group they disagree with.

That ain't just sad, it is also shameful...; 3/31/12, 12:01 PM
Craig said...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FfNKySqL9E&feature=player_detailpage; 3/31/12, 12:13 PM
Original Mike said...: "It states a theory about what the teachers' unions do"

It is what teacher's unions do. It's what they're suppose to do. And part of the union's strategy to acheive their goal is to claim that they have the student's best interest at heart. The people who are taken in by that strategy need to think more clearly.; 3/31/12, 12:15 PM
garage mahal said...: In response they need to step up and convince us they are really first and foremost about the children

The old "I called you a pigfucker. Respond!" politics.; 3/31/12, 12:15 PM
rhhardin said...: A parry is defensive use of the blade to deflect an attack.

A riposte is a counterattack immediately after a parry.

Rules give an attack right of way, then the riposte if the attack is parried. No use attacking in response to an attack, you lose on points.; 3/31/12, 12:17 PM
purplepenquin said...: If they take us off on the sidetrack of whether a union president really ever blurted out the truth so blatantly, I'm going to feel that they don't have a good argument on the merits.

It is not a "sidetrack" at all to point out that the billboard is nothing more than a strawman. The fact that they needed to fabricate the quote tells me there is very little merits to their argument.

It is no different than putting up a billboard that says "The workers of Wisconsin need to just just shut up and do as they are told!" and the Recall Walker website underneath.

Too many people try to make-up what others say/beleive in order to argue with that instead of actually listening to what is actually being said...that is sad enough, but it is really sad when others start defending that type of behavior and instead choose to scold those those who say "Hey! That ain't what was actually said, so why are you lying?"; 3/31/12, 12:27 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: The primary objective of the Teacher's Union is the Teacher's union. The Teacher's union number two objective is to extract money from its members and give it to the democrat party. The kids come last. People are starting to notice, so the democrat lie machine is in full propaganda mode. Waiting for Superman?

If we change to a competitive model with parent choice and vouchers, it would be preferable. In a perfect world we could push the corrupt teacher's union out of business. Then we could watch the shackles fall off and our children would finally receive an education worthy of what it takes to compete in the real world. (instead of the professional baby-sitting and neo-whiny leftist indoctrination throw-more-money-at-it broken system we have now); 3/31/12, 12:36 PM
rhhardin said...: I don't see the problem with the quote in any case. He represents teachers, not children.

That he should be represnting children is a woman's idea.

You don't want the public employee union for a different reason, namely that it's organized crime when negotiating with the representatives of the people.; 3/31/12, 12:36 PM
massconservative said...: No, they don't use an untruthful quote...they use an unverifiable quote and one which is in character with the other quotes which are verified.

Also they did not decide to make the quote up, it is an apocryphal quote often attributed to Shanker.

So it seems your argument is they used an unverified quote when his actual words would have made the case for them just as effectively.

Funny that.; 3/31/12, 12:38 PM
traditionalguy said...: Once Teachers Unions were only a glimmer in the eye of State Teacher Associations that were voluntary clubs with memerships willing to join wanting to support teacher viewpoints on educational issues. It worked like the ABA works today.

But even then there was a recognition that the teacher formed State Education Associations could push a high class political angle really saying to the parents, "That's a mighty nice set of children you have got there, and it would be a shame if anything happened to them."

So the State Education Association has always mixed an old role as child care-takers with a new role as child hostage takers who must be obeyed.

If it was not for Governments hitting a wall of serious deficits, the Teacher's Unions would still be obeyed by the politicians.; 3/31/12, 12:39 PM
bagoh20 said...: Fake but accurate.; 3/31/12, 12:40 PM
Original Mike said...: Truthy.; 3/31/12, 12:45 PM
Rusty said...: purplepenquin said...
Never let the truth prevent you from smearing a group you disagree with...sad

Truth is that the billboard is using an untruthful quote.

Like you just pointed out, they could have used an actual/real quote but instead they decided to make something up in order to smear a group they disagree with.

That ain't just sad, it is also shameful...

So. It isn't about the children?; 3/31/12, 12:56 PM
gadfly said...: This video of former NEA General Counsel Bob Chanin pretty much says that the bottom line for teacher's unions is jobs, paychecks and union power!

WTF, everybody knows that school kids don't pay union dues!; 3/31/12, 1:18 PM
garage mahal said...: I thought we might see the governor out stumping with Romney or Santorum, you know, where they join hands up in the air as they tout all the great Walker reforms, and how they are going to take back the country from the evil Obama.

Walker nowhere to be found. Huh. I wonder if he is even in the state.; 3/31/12, 1:40 PM
alan markus said...: Truth is that the billboard is using an untruthful quote.

Like you just pointed out, they could have used an actual/real quote but instead they decided to make something up in order to smear a group they disagree with.

That ain't just sad, it is also shameful...

How may libs believe that Sarah Palin really said "I can see Russia from my house"? A lot, I think.; 3/31/12, 1:46 PM
Col Mustard said...: Walker nowhere to be found. Huh. I wonder if he is even in the state.

You're confused. It was the Dem legislators who fled when they couldn't have their way.; 3/31/12, 1:53 PM
Beta Rube said...: Does anyone dispute that WEAC uses kids as rally props when it suits their agenda?

Meadehouse has beaucuop video from a year ago that shows just that.

This seems too obvious to me to be controversial.; 3/31/12, 1:55 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: Both sides use their children. Let's say involve their children. Involve them in their adult activities. It's how families are knit. Now, using somebody else's kids, however, uncool.

I will now start reading your comments and maybe learn something. Spout first, read later, that's what I say.; 3/31/12, 1:58 PM
Unknown said...: Who can I recall that uses children for their own selfish adult purposes?
Cindy Sheehan
Any muslim jihadi
both sides of the kony2012 campaign
andrew sullivan
David Letterman
pedophiles; 3/31/12, 2:13 PM
SomeoneHasToSayIt said...: When the public Unions and the elected politicians sit down at the bargaining table, who, precisely, is representing the interests of the tax payer, who pay the salaries on both sides of the table?

Since the answer is "No one.", that pretty much settles the case about whether they ever should BE public Unions.

Everything else is commentary and footnotes.; 3/31/12, 2:14 PM
PackerBronco said...: garage mahal said...

He's never worked with anyone before, can't see him wanting to do it now.

Actually as Milw. County Exec he had to work with entrenched Dems in positions of power on a daily basis. It's people like Falk and Barrett who lived in a political cocoon all of their lives, never really having to deal with meaningful opposition.

Once again, GM shows his inability to understand even the most basic facts.; 3/31/12, 2:17 PM
Christopher in MA said...: Purple: ". . .they decided to make something up in order to smear a group they disagree with."

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood just as it narrows the mind. . .the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded with patriotism, will offer up all of their rights to their leader, and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."

- Noted scholar B. Streisand quoting "William Shakespeare" during the tyrannical reign of George W. BusHitler

To quote garbage, I don't remember you pigfuckers whining very much about smearing back then.; 3/31/12, 2:18 PM
PackerBronco said...: garage mahal said...

Walker nowhere to be found. Huh. I wonder if he is even in the state.

Since Walker has not endorsed a candidate, he can hardly be seen stumping any of them.

GM has problems understanding reality methinks. It so much easier for him to write about the fantasies of his fevered brain.; 3/31/12, 2:20 PM
Alex said...: Here we go with some troll citing Palin children in 3...2...1...; 3/31/12, 2:30 PM
Alex said...: garage seems to think Walker is a "dead-man walking". I mean who are WE to question the GREAT Garage Mahal????; 3/31/12, 2:31 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: I don't like the billboard. I think I could do better. All of us could make a better billboard than that. Moreover, together we could avoid questionable quotes. We could come up with something that goes BLAM there it is all at once, none of this cogitation required about what was just seen on a billboard we just passed.

Could you stand a billboard anecdote? Okay, goes like this:

It was a phase.

Years ago from now I was in an AOL chatroom hosted by NYT. Since then the hosted chatroom was dropped. During that time a constructor showed up, Frank Longo, if you know him. He's a stud. You can see yourself by searching American Crossword Tournament photos, but Frank's studliness is irrelevant to the question he posed to us people in the chat room. He thought himself not that great at making clues because so many are changed by the editor,

"How does this sound for clue? [Plug along the highway? 9 letters]

The ? indicates the clue is a stretch. So stretch away we did but the clue stumped everybody. We were all thinking spark plugs. Finally I guessed an outer cloud word 'billboard' to the word-cloud 'ad', and was right, thus winning the admiration of my peers, once it was explained because the stretch was nice and stretchy, for that fleeting moment which I hope to relive by relating this anecdote. There. Breathes. Yes, that feels great.

I have more crossword constructor related anecdotes that can stir your soul this same way but they're probably best saved for when their words match like this one did. And back to the present day billboard, we could still make a better billboard because this billboard already has too many words.

(I love the sound of squabbling birds outside.); 3/31/12, 2:40 PM
garage mahal said...: Since Walker has not endorsed a candidate, he can hardly be seen stumping any of them.

So why hasn't Walker endorsed yet? He has no opinion on it? Seems a bit...odd.

Paul Ryan appeared with Romney at 12 events in Wisconsin so far.; 3/31/12, 2:45 PM
sakredkow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/31/12, 3:05 PM
sakredkow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/31/12, 3:09 PM
bagoh20 said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/31/12, 3:15 PM
bagoh20 said...: Even if the quote is true, I don't really see anything wrong with it. The highest priority of the union should be the interests of the dues payers, just like a corporation's should be it's stockholders. We would like our teachers to care about the kids, but I don't expect anyone to put their own interests second to other people's kids. It's the parents' responsibility to put their kids first and fight for their interests.

If you expect the teachers to do your job against their own interest, you will be disappointed. If you expect the union to, you're nuts.

That's why we should not put our kids second by having unionized teachers for whom we are forced to pay, under a system where we are not even represented at the bargaining table. It's bad enough that politicians and union leaders bargain away your money without you there, but bargaining away your kids future too?

Parents need to get their head around this: They're your kids and your responsibility. Nobody else cares about your kids enough to protect them, nobody.; 3/31/12, 3:20 PM
Curious George said...: THis quote was first attributed to Shanker in 1985. He died in 1997. There is no record of him denying it. Odd.; 3/31/12, 3:24 PM
Curious George said...: purplepenquin said...

Truth is that the billboard is using an untruthful quote."

Actually, the quote is in question. Why are YOU lying?; 3/31/12, 3:28 PM
Quaestor said...: I object to the use of children in political debate, in political advertising, in demonstrations -- no use of children as rhetorical tools full stop.

However, the Adversary has no scruples. The Democrats have used children in this manner ruthlessly (and sometimes artfully) through the decades, and attempts to shame them over their rank exploitation of persons with little ability to discern or choose has been met with derision. Their use of children has only increased and the level of exploitation has risen from mindless emotionalism (LBJ Daisy ad) to gross propaganda worthy of Joseph Geobbels. (Obamajugend)

If we can't persuade them to cease this unfair use of much too easily misled citizens then we should use the enemy's weapons against him, but do it better. That billboard is the pits. It's the obvious product of someone with little experience in advertising. If I saw that thing while driving at 65 mph I'd likely ignore it. Able to study it at length on the web I am still unmoved. Yeah, I know it's sarcasm, the point being that union bosses are venial, mercenary and only in it for the money -- the same could be said of most lawyers. But sarcasm it not an effective rhetorical tool. It's like Carl Chessman making sarcastic expressions at the jury whenever a prosecution witness speaks. He was hoping to make the jury doubt the testimony, but instead he was persuading them he was an arrogant jerk, a guilty arrogant jerk. The billboard needs to come down. It won't have the desired effect; it makes the sponsor look like an arrogant jerk.

Here's an idea off the top of my head for a better billboard; 3/31/12, 4:01 PM
Fen said...: ...Democrats using the corpse of a child [Treyvor Martin] as a prop to advance their politics.; 3/31/12, 4:09 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Severavility?

If the liberals trow out the quote as unattributable.. they can save the status quo..

Ok, for the last time.. this is governor Walker.. and this is your brain on governor Walker.

Any questions?; 3/31/12, 4:10 PM
Quaestor said...: "has been met with derision" should read "have been met with derision."

Damn, I hate blogger sometimes...; 3/31/12, 4:20 PM
PackerBronco said...: garage mahal said...
So why hasn't Walker endorsed yet? He has no opinion on it? Seems a bit...odd.

What's the advantage to Walker at this point to endorse either candidate? It seems to me he gets one group or the other of his supporters annoyed with him.

You don't endorse just for the heck of it. This isn't blogging after all ...; 3/31/12, 5:12 PM
FedkaTheConvict said...: He won't have the legislature to do that. He doesn't have it now. I doubt Walker even wants to be a governor without a total sycophantic legislature. He's never worked with anyone before, can't see him wanting to do it now.

You lie so easily. Throughout Walker's tenure as Milwaukee County Executive the majority of the county board were Democrats. Ever heard about Lee Holloway?; 3/31/12, 5:44 PM
Penny said...: Kids experiencing the "town square" and democracy in action.

Very cool.; 3/31/12, 9:25 PM
Penny said...: When I was a kid, the "Really big shew!"... was Ed Sullivan.; 3/31/12, 9:27 PM
Anonymous said...: The demonization of teachers continues. Who's next, what profession? Nurses? Doctors? Firefighters and cops probably.

Looks like the only good employee works for minimum wage at Walmart nowadays. Those uppity employees, they just don't know their place.; 3/31/12, 10:39 PM
bagoh20 said...: "The demonization of teachers continues."

Is that really what it is without cause? Teachers were once practically saints and somewhat still enjoy an exceptional level of good will. Lately people are getting tired of paying more and more for something and getting less in return, with the only suggestion put forward by teachers is to simply spend more money, again. It hasn't worked, so it's a hard sell.

As a nurse you too have enjoyed enormous goodwill from people, and I deeply respect the profession, seeing it as one of the hardest there is, but the goodwill you enjoy may blind your to what being demonized is really like.

My job, as a corporate CEO is probably the most demonized legal job there is, and probably even below any illegal one. That's despite the fact that we run and provide nearly everything outside of the government either directly or indirectly, and our work funds the government side as well.

We get attacked on the floor of the Congress every day, and by the President every time he opens his mouth. We are the cause of all things evil or unfortunate. We enjoy this level of goodwill despite the fact that virtually everything we provide is better and cheaper that in was in the past.

I suggest CEOs be put in charge of education. I know parents would be happier, and I bet teachers and children would as well, because if they were not, some other education CEO would make dammed sure it was available at his school. There are some people who would not be happy: bad teachers and wealthy union leaders. I can live with that.; 3/31/12, 11:07 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/31/12, 11:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Bagoh, I have several friends who teach at Milwaukee Public Schools. They work their tails off, they use their own funds to provide the kids with supplies, hats, mittens, etc. They get sworn at by irate parents, they are at risk for bodily harm in the higher grades. In my opinion, they deserve every penny they earn.

Unions aren't perfect, but as speaking as a nurse, I found working in a unionized facility far preferable. Nurses and teachers have risky jobs, if all employers were scrupulous there might not be a need for unions.; 3/31/12, 11:30 PM
Seven Machos said...: Nurses and teachers have risky jobs

Laughable.; 3/31/12, 11:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Yeah Seven, can't be compared to your job as a Mexican wrestling lawyer, choke hold!; 3/31/12, 11:37 PM
Seven Machos said...: Allie -- You are not funny when you try to be and you are hilarious when you try to make serious arguments. Please keep this fact in mind if you want to make people laugh.

Thanks. And keep on surviving out there in the brutal, dangerous world of assisting doctors. Wash those hands often!; 3/31/12, 11:48 PM
Anonymous said...: Seven, don't let any lawyers kick you in the balls when you're wrestling, such peril!; 3/31/12, 11:52 PM
Seven Machos said...: Okay. You unflatten your poor face and lose some weight.; 3/31/12, 11:53 PM
Anonymous said...: LMAO, you little weak sister. I am at my ideal weight for my age and height. Let's see that mug of yours, I bet it's as ugly as your personality.; 3/31/12, 11:56 PM
Seven Machos said...: I don't believe you. You make no mention of your weirdly flat face, though. Was it an ironing accident? A steam roller?

Anyway, Allie, just so you know, the silly ad hominem attacks I am making are in response to your silly ad hominem attacks, in the vain hope that you will see the fruitlessness of the endeavor.

Obviously, it's not working. So, have another doughnut. Also, maybe you can save up some money from all that dangerous, terrifying nursing work to get the help you so desperately need from a qualified plastic surgeon.; 4/1/12, 12:00 AM
Anonymous said...: Ohhhh Nacho, scared of Allie? Or maybe he's at a sidebar discussing his sore nuts with the judge.; 4/1/12, 12:01 AM
Seven Machos said...: I also think you should get your forehead halved. Is that possible?; 4/1/12, 12:03 AM
Anonymous said...: Weak sister, take off your mask, weakling. You have a reputation far and wide here and elsewhere. Go have some more cocaine. Maybe it will give you courage, coward, post a picture of your hideous face.; 4/1/12, 12:04 AM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/1/12, 12:08 AM
Seven Machos said...: So, I see that the point I am making, that silly ad hominem attacks are pointless, has not brought any reflection but has merely increased the volume of silly ad hominem attacks.

Okay. Also hilarious. Maybe if my eyes were on the sides of my head like yours, I wouldn't be able to comprehend it, either.

Good luck in the big, bad world of changing bedpans.; 4/1/12, 12:09 AM
Anonymous said...: Seven here is a legitimate attack, you are a huge weak, weird hypocrite, you are always the one yo begin with the ad hominems.

You met your match in me.; 4/1/12, 12:12 AM
Fen said...: Allie: The demonization of teachers continues.

Hyperbole much?

Pointing out that teachers use kids as political props != demonization.

BTW, I've worked graveyard shifts in the ER as security at a major hospital (Baylor Regional). I've also served six years in the Marines as an infantryman. Please don't pretend your job as a nurse is "dangerous".; 4/1/12, 12:15 AM
Anonymous said...: But dear nachos YOUR eyes ARE on the sides of your head! How else would you be able to see out of those goggles?

Maybe that's a trait of weak sister syndrome.; 4/1/12, 12:15 AM
bagoh20 said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/1/12, 12:17 AM
Seven Machos said...: That was a horrendous run-on sentence with a misspelling. It was also factually incorrect, as I called your absurd statement that teachers and nurses have risky jobs laughable, which it is. Your astoundingly stupid response was purely an attack against me -- against my awesome little picture no less -- and it had no logical or substantive content whatsoever. You have yet to offer any logic or substance since.

And so I would say that I have not met my match in you, which, of course, anyone would expect given your inability to counter argument with anything but insult and your poor, narrow education, such as it must be.

But I thought you were leaving. What happened? Couldn't see the door? Turn sideways and spot the door with one of those side eyes and shuffle. Try that.; 4/1/12, 12:18 AM
Anonymous said...: Fen, oh good lord, security guard, oh so dangerous. And I didn't say dangerous, I said risky.

My daughter is serving with the Marines in Afghanistan now as a Corpsman, since you brought up being a Marine. Now that takes some balls, unlike what Nachos has .; 4/1/12, 12:19 AM
bagoh20 said...: Now girls and boys, lets keep it clean, we don't want any bullies in here. How dangerous your job is is not the point. What is the point is a solution. The teachers union is only interested in one: more money. I'd have no problem with that if there was any evidence that lack of money is the problem, but in fact the evidence shows just the opposite: the best performing schools are not the most expensive. Our most expensive schools in NY, or DC perform far below others especially in other countries where they often spend less. There certainly is no positive correlation with money and performance. I think without unions, the best teachers, schools and methods would get the most money, and there would be some incentive to be better.

We spend far more per pupil than we used to, and teachers need to buy their own materials? Sounds like something is wrong to me, but not enough money seems like the least likely.

And I don't know how risky lawyers or nurses find their days, but I know a lot of CEO's who have gun within reach at their desk as I do, but that makes it less risky not more.; 4/1/12, 12:19 AM
Anonymous said...: Nachos, I'm playing with you, do you think I give a rats ass what you have to say. Weak.; 4/1/12, 12:21 AM
Fen said...: Allie: Seven ...you are always the one yo begin with the ad hominems.

Your first exchange with Seven on this thread was at 11:37 PM - "can't be compared to
your job as a Mexican wrestling lawyer, choke hold!"

The first ad hom was yours.

I hope your read medical charts better than you've read the thread. Because I've never known a nurse to be so sloppy. No doubt this is just another persona you adopted for your sockpuppet.

Quick: whats the needle size for lactated ringers?

Because I think you are a fraud.; 4/1/12, 12:21 AM
Fen said...: 3 minutes and no response?

C'mon Allie, this is something a nurse can answer in her sleep.

Google not helping quickly enough, eh?; 4/1/12, 12:24 AM
Anonymous said...: Ah see Machos? Now there's a REAL man and and a handsome devil. Don't you wish you had Baghos blue eyes and rugged good looks, mmmm, mmm. I bet he's strong, not a weak sister, nope.

Now I'm out of here, before Meade gets ideas.; 4/1/12, 12:25 AM
Seven Machos said...: do you think I give a rats ass what you have to say

Clearly, you do not because you have spent the last hour of your life replying to my comments. How would anyone construe that you are at all concerned.

As long as you refuse to leave, as you promised you would, though, you need to improve your grammar dramatically, particularly since you say you long to be my match. I know it must be hard with that flat head and those eyes so far apart to see the sentences you are constructing, but do try. Remember: Beethoven was deaf in his later years and Stevie Wonder is blind. Don't let your facial handicaps hold you back from good writing. Be handi-capable!; 4/1/12, 12:27 AM
Anonymous said...: Oh good grief Fen, how utterly rediculous. I'm not going to play with you, you are dull and predictable.; 4/1/12, 12:28 AM
Fen said...: Allie: how utterly rediculous. I'm not going to play with you, you are dull and predictable.

I see Google couldn't save you.

You're a nurse who doesn't know what lactated ringers are?

Poser. Pretending to be a nurse to prop up your credibility. Yes, by all means, bravely run away.; 4/1/12, 12:29 AM
Anonymous said...: It's been great , put ice on those sore nuts I just kicked Seven.; 4/1/12, 12:30 AM
Fen said...: No. You just outed yourself as a fraud.; 4/1/12, 12:31 AM
Seven Machos said...: how utterly rediculous

Fen is awesome. Fen can also spell. And his face doesn't look like it was crushed by an anvil.

I suppose you will say that your job as a nurse on the razor's edge of life and death gives you no time to learn to spell (or write proper sentences). I don't buy this excuse.; 4/1/12, 12:31 AM
Anonymous said...: FEN, dumbass, I said I won't play your game. I don't need to prove a thing to you, I kow who I am and that's all that counts.; 4/1/12, 12:32 AM
bagoh20 said...: Despite her political failings, I think this Allie person has extremely good instincts and taste.

And is "Mexican wrestling lawyer" an ad hominem attack, because it sounds like a pretty cool gig to me.

You kick ass by day and kick ass by night, followed by tequila, salsa and chips. Where do I sign up?; 4/1/12, 12:32 AM
Fen said...: Tune in next week:

AllieSockPuppet: "I'm a police officer and I say -"

Fen: "What does 9mm stand for?

AllieSockPuppet: "Er...uhm... thats a really dumb question. I'm not going to waste my time with an answer. Instead, I'll pretend I'm leaving the thread but waste even more time blah blah blah"; 4/1/12, 12:34 AM
Seven Machos said...: An ad hominem attack is an attack against the person that substitutes as for a response engaging the substance at issue.

Allie is a fat, flat-faced moron with her eyes on the sides of her head. That was an ad hominem attack.

Get it?; 4/1/12, 12:35 AM
Anonymous said...: Muwahhhh, big sloppy kiss for the weak sisters, nighty night!; 4/1/12, 12:36 AM
Seven Machos said...: I got $100 says flat-faced Al writes at least five more comments and then promises to leave again. Fen, you want that action?; 4/1/12, 12:38 AM
Fen said...: Allie: FEN, dumbass, I said I won't play your game. I don't need to prove a thing to you,

Yes, you do. You've presented yourself as a nurse here, no doubt to trade on the respect we have for them.

But you don't know something so basic as the needle size for lactated ringers.

Thats like someone claiming to be an electrician not knowing what Voltage stands for.

You are a fraud.; 4/1/12, 12:40 AM
Anonymous said...: And as for Bagoh, well you know Althouse doesn't like flirting so I won't go there, but I'm tempted, good night to you for real.; 4/1/12, 12:40 AM
Fen said...: Fen, you want that action?

Nah. I'm betting that she's currently cursing her browser as she googles "lactated ringers"; 4/1/12, 12:41 AM
Seven Machos said...: Four more and I win!; 4/1/12, 12:41 AM
Fen said...: Allie: good night to you for real.

Sure.

Its really kinda sad when a troll gets trolled. You'd think they would understand the concept.

So what do you really do at the hospital, Allie? Mop floors? Validate parking? Ask your nurse friends what lactated ringers are on Monday. You'll be pisses that you were outed on such an easy question.; 4/1/12, 12:44 AM
bagoh20 said...: "Althouse doesn't like flirting"

How convenient for them, now.

Goodnight.; 4/1/12, 12:46 AM
Seven Machos said...: She sure showed us, though. The misspellings. The utter lack of knowledge.

Truly impressive.; 4/1/12, 12:46 AM
Fen said...: Its a fucking IV bag.

So we're expected to believe you are a nurse who doens't know what size needle to reach for when she starts a patient on IV fluids, something they do dozens of times each day.; 4/1/12, 12:47 AM
Seven Machos said...: Maybe she only deals with especially dangerous IV bags -- the ones without ringers that will kill you in an instant if you aren't completely precise. I'm sure that's it.; 4/1/12, 12:50 AM
Fen said...: Risky, not dangerous, remember? :)

Well, I've played with my food long enough. I need her rested for tomorrow's thrashing.

Take care Seven!; 4/1/12, 12:56 AM
chickelit said...: "lactated ringers"

Even I know what those are. Those are those nipple piercings that some younger women like. They set off metal detectors.; 4/1/12, 7:31 PM