1. Scott Walker's name does not appear in today's article "Spectrum Brands to move headquarters to Middleton."
The company, whose brands include Rayovac, Remington and Cutter, said in a news release that it is shelving plans to move its base to Miramar, Fla., home of Russell Hobbs. Spectrum Brands bought the small appliance company in 2010.2. Scott Walker's name appears in this column about how "anti-government right-wingers" like to say that government "doesn't create jobs."
If the government does not create jobs, then why did Republicans such as Scott Walker and Ron Johnson make job creation pillars of their campaigns for government jobs? Why did the Walker regime throw $4 million at Spectrum Brands... under the guise of job creation or retention?
Posts
93 comments:
No net new jobs were created Mr. Johnson. Walker simply kept jobs from being moved from WI to Florida.
If the government does not create jobs
I love how this is supposed to be a serious question.
The government doesn't create jobs, but can foster an environment favorable to job creation.
For examples, see the Reagan Presidency.
For a counter example, see the Obama Presidency.
Nice statistical analysis.
Althouse must teach the law school's class on statistics.
What I want to know is if Walker wins in a recall election is whether garage mahal will move to Quebec?
Hoosier Daddy said...
What I want to know is if Walker wins in a recall election is whether garage mahal will move to Quebec?
No, but the silly narrative of "The election was corrupt" is already being built by the endless "Out of State money" (note no union money comes from out of state (giggle)) and "billionaire contributions"
They already have the memes ready to go if Walker wins.
The WiSJ mentions Walker in articles that are about politics, but not in some articles that are not about politics?
I would be interested to see if WiSJ used to credit Doyle in stories about businesses moving to, or staying in, or leaving Wisconsin. That might be more telling.
Spectrum Brands? I use Cutter products and Nature's Miracle. Not a fan of Ray-O-Vac.
Jay nailed the comment I was going to highlight. Government can kill jobs easily, but can only help create jobs by maintaining rule of law and then STAYING OUT OF THE WAY.Even subsidies, credits, loan guarantees and what-have-you don't create jobs. Eventually the public purse crowds out private capital, reducing overall employment in the sectors in which government sticks its fingers.
Walker simply kept jobs from being moved from WI to Florida.
Spectrum was never planning on moving. But they did receive 4 million dollars from taxpayers. Just in case.
There you go again, Professor. You are arguing facts again, not mind control memes from the 1930s.
Let's wait for Garage to reply to you and make out real clear contrast here.
Curious.
Being from out of State, what is the Wisconsin State Journal?
Is it a public entity, i.e., printed/published by the state, or a private entity?
That may have something to do with your question.
"Being from out of State, what is the Wisconsin State Journal?"
It's a regular newspaper. Privately owned.
Spectrum was never planning on moving. But they did receive 4 million dollars from taxpayers. Just in case.
A paltry sum against the Solyndra deal, in which the company knew they were going under and were still pushing for hundreds of millions more on top of what they had already received at taxpayer's expense. I don't recall your outrage over any of that, so I'm going to assume there's no outrage over a measly $4 million here.
Never forget, Demos don't let facts get in the way of a good lie.
(I mean it's not a govt entity. Not sure how widely owned the corporation is.)
A paltry sum against the ....
SQUIRREL!
garage mahal said...
Spectrum was never planning on moving.
Hilarious.
Yes, you got them garagie!
They only publicly said they were moving, but it was all a millionaires and billionaires plot to get that 4 million!
SQUIRREL!
I learned from the squirrel dropping gold card member himself.
They only publicly said they were moving, but it was all a millionaires and billionaires plot to get that 4 million!
They were never planning on moving out of the area. They've said this publicly. But what would you know, you don't read the links. Hell, you don't even read your OWN links.
"... Spectrum was never planning on moving. But they did receive 4 million dollars from taxpayers. Just in case..."
Ok so I read an article on NBC15 that said they got a $4 million award if they maintain 470 jobs and make $40 million in capital improvements.
So you gave them $4 million in return they have to spend $40 million.
Government does not create private jobs, but they sure cause them to leave a state. Take California. I do consultant work for a company with close to 200 employees (hi-tech jobs) near Folsom, they are going to be announcing shortly they are leaving the state to relocate in Salt Lake City. California is bleeding jobs, and it is all because of Liberal Democrat policies. This hold true for the company that I do work for. Seen where there is 4 new rather large companies a week, every week leaving California. Mostly to NV, UT and TX.
But what would you know, you don't read the links.
You mean like this?
said in a news release that it is shelving plans to move its base to Miramar, Fla.,
Again, you beclown yourself here every day, but you'll be back tomorrow.
"... "We were close to a decision to move up to 300 full-time jobs from the Madison area to Florida," CEO Dave Lumley said in a news release."
There are no American tanks in Bagdahd!!!!!
Sometimes I really feel sorry for garage, then it passes.
Sorry, Althouse ... but this is extremely lame.
`Bob McLaughlin' is a write-in letter to the newspaper.
Blaming the newspaper for biased coverage based on the fact that people writing letters to them mention Scott Walker a lot is bizarre.
Write-in letters. Seriously?
Perhaps you should stock up on some tin-foil, as it's going to be a long spring.
Sometimes I really feel sorry for garage, then it passes.
When you say "it passes", do you mean you pass it?
garage mahal said...
They were never planning on moving out of the area. They've said this publicly
Um, that would be false.
But thanks for participating.
Again, the lies you need to tell yourself in order to be a leftist are endless.
I wouldn't be so generous as to call the State Journal a newspaper. It's more like biased fishwrap for the Capital Times, "your progressive voice", which failed as a newspaper years ago and is now a free weekly insert, also available in free newspaper boxes at grocery stores.
"... When you say "it passes", do you mean you pass it?.."
No, more its more like indigestion or heartburn that slowly subsides.
I do think down deep inside garage is a good guy. I can feel it, like when Luke was able to finally connect with the good part if Darth Vader and they were able to defeat the Emperor together.
Then again I could be completely wrong and he's not Darth Vader but the Borg.
Then again I could be completely wrong and he's not Darth Vader but the Borg.
Nerd.
So you gave them $4 million in return they have to spend $40 million.
$40 million in capital expense will generate approximately $800,000 in property taxes in Dane County. The State is offering to offset this for 5 years. Kind of like a TIF district without the district. Isn't this why we have a state Economic Development Corporation? Now, you could be against the entire WEDC in free-market principle, but if you're not against the concept, you shouldn't be against it spending money in accordance with its charter.
And a proud card carrying member of Nerd Local AA-23.
Speaking of nerds, I got Star Wars Old Republic and its pretty good so far. Only signed up for a month but ill probably extend it. This last WOW expansion didn't blow my skirt up do I'm branching off to see how this goes.
Speaking of nerds, I got Star Wars Old Republic and its pretty good so far.
Okay, that hit close to home. What server :)
"... Now, you could be against the entire WEDC in free-market principle,.."
Does it really conflict with free market principles? I would argue providing incentives to keep or relocate businesses is part of the free market.
A few years back,.Indy went on a big refurbishing kick in some blighted areas of downtown. Fixed up a whole bunch of old beat up homes and then sold them on the market with the incentive of a five year property tax abatement.
Naturally this pissed many people off yet totally overlooked that a previously blighted and depopulatef section of town is being revitalized with the prospect of additional tax revenue down the road.
I'm on Anturi Reach. Just started the other day so I'm a wee level 8.
Um, that would be false.
But thanks for participating.
They just moved their headquarters back to Madison from Atlanta in 2010. Before the forgivable loan was made. But they were going to move again, to FL, but decided not to, in part due to a 4 million loan? After previously saying they had no plans on relocating? Anyways, must be nice.
Speaking of a need for nerds, the nerd part starts at about 4:20.
I'm on Anturi Reach. Just started the other day so I'm a wee level 8.
I've got eight different classes to 10, samples, if you will, but I don't remember the PVP server I was on. What's your screen name? I was going to delete one of them and try an operative anyway.
"... But they were going to move again, to FL, but decided not to, in part due to a 4 million loan? After previously saying they had no plans on relocating?.."
That is what the article you said Jay didn't read indicated.
So the answer is yes.
"... What's your screen name? I was going to delete one of them and try an operative anyway..."
Korbandallas.
I'm on Pve server though. I did a year on pvp in wow which was fun for awhile until you're trying to complete a quest and some op geared twat corpse-camps you for 20 minutes.
So I switched to a Pve server and just joined battlegrounds for my pvp fix.
So far it seems like they followed the wow model closely and ill be interested to see the group instances and end game content. I might need to take some much needed vacation time.
That is what the article you said Jay didn't read indicated.
They have said publicly two different things.
"... They have said publicly two different things..."
Probably. But you said he didn't read the link which he obviously did cause he pasted the quote from it.
I'm guessing there is more to the story though. Getting $4 million on condition you spend $40 million doesn't seem a good deal on the face of it.
But you should be happy garage. The frozen tundra of Wisconsin over the sunshine and tropical temperatures of Florida?
That would have been an easy choice for me.
Korbandallas
LOL, why not just go with meatpopsicle?
I'll log in tonight and look you up. Overall, I'm pretty happy with it so far. Sending companions off to grind is a nice mechanic.
Government stimulus money works! Creates jobs even.
Spectrum has been moving from here to there since they declared bankruptcy and are now trying to start fresh and I am glad they will stay here. Yes in part government tax incentives encourage jobs and also lower building costs as this report mentions:The Company said annual cost savings and major space efficiencies provided by the facility in Middleton, coupled with a recent five-year, $4 million award (or $800,000 per year) from the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation (WEDC), were substantial enough to shelve plans to move its world headquarters
"... LOL, why not just go with meatpopsicle?.."
Actually, and I'm not kidding, that was my backup if Korbandallas had been taken.
"... Government stimulus money works! Creates jobs even..."
When used properly, yes it can.
"Why did the Walker regime throw $4 million at Spectrum Brands... under the guise of job creation or retention?"
Well, it's a LOAN. It will be forgiven if Spectrum retains jobs here AND invests additional millions.
The easy answer is both. And Walker and Johnson both profess that governments role in job creation is simply creating a business and tax environment that allows creation by the private market.
And is Spectrum doesn'y follow through, the state gets it's money back with interest.
Still thick to the whole job creation thing, aren't you.
Garage: "Government stimulus money works! Creates jobs even."
Governments that use capital to attract or retain important businesses can indeed "create" jobs. There are auto plants all over the south that are thriving and which were attracted to the area by non-union labor, tax holidays, cheap bond offerings and the like. In contrast to, say, Solyndra most of these kinds of incentives are very carefully vetted by professionals and only a few of them pass muster and receive the aid requested. The kind of "stimulus" the president talks about are extra months of unemployment which do not encourage job seeking much less job formation.
Garage, I must say your incomprehension of finance is stunning, really stunning. I have come to think that you have a small trust fund or some other means to insulate you from the real world. Nothing else could explain it.
I know you don't understand statistics, but it's stilly to draw inferences frmo such a small sample size.
You might as well infer that articles about jobs occur on sunny, but cold days.
The Wisconsin State Journal is a business. As such, they are out to make a profit by providing their subscribers with what they want to read. And very few of them are interested in reading pro-Walker stories.
Garage, I must say your incomprehension of finance is stunning, really stunning.
I haven't received a dime from the government.
How many Finance Titans in your field have received hundreds of billions from taxpayers from finance fuckups?
Did the article say a net increase of 60-70 jobs?
I guess better than no jobs but that isn't a huge number.
My company is currently adding 60-70 new jobs a quarter but we are all about clouds and applies.
And we are in horrible Massachusetts!
"... How many Finance Titans in your field have received hundreds of billions from taxpayers from finance fuckups?.."
Garage are you joining the ranks of the Tea Party who opposed taxpayer funded bailouts?
"... I haven't received a dime from the government..."
Actually you have. Every deduction you take iis a dime the Federal government let's you keep. Since the Democratc mindset is that its not really your money, just the governments money that they haven't chosen to confiscate, every dollar you earn is money the Feds give you.
Hoosier
I dont know what would have happened if the banks weren't bailed out. Don't claim to be that smart. But I get a little weary from the strutting and preening from the so called Masters of the Universe.
Speaking of job creation: Since Walker's budget was passed, Wisconsin has lost jobs for six straight months. But liberals don't know what they're talking about? Yah right.
I would argue providing incentives to keep or relocate businesses is part of the free market.
If you have to change your political position in order to keep businesses from leaving your political position is wrong.
A few years back,.Indy went on a big refurbishing kick in some blighted areas of downtown. Fixed up a whole bunch of old beat up homes and then sold them on the market with the incentive of a five year property tax abatement.
And wasted taxpayer money rather than encourage private investment.
Garage: I will repeat. Your incomprehension is stunning.
I assume your question pertains to TARP. I will answer with a question: how much TARP money has been repaid with interest? How many banks were compelled to accept TARP money that did not want it?
I do believe we have a little trust funder in you Garage, I do think I have turned the key on this puzzle.
Wisconsin has lost jobs for sixty straight months
FTFY
I'll flip the "since Walker's budget" on you and say that Walker had a six month run of job-creation going that the destabilizing riots, talk of strikes, and uncertainty-creating recall disrupted.
You going to be on tonight HD?
I do believe we have a little trust funder in you Garage, I do think I have turned the key on this puzzle.
I'm on 100% commission. Sell nothing, I earn nothing. I've received no government loans or bailouts in my entire life. But the Smartest Men in the Room, through their own fuckups, received hundreds of billions of dollars. Stick in that in your fucking pipe and smoke it!
Who is better at finances again?
garage: I don't believe you. I think you receive passive income from a trust or an inheritance or a rich wife. You have each and every attribute of a trust funder.
You have each and every attribute of a trust funder.
Except the bat-themed vigilante gig, of course.
garage: I don't believe you.
Your prerogative.
Maybe Garage's garage is really a bat cave. That would be kinda cool.
I have a man cave, no bat cave though. I would trade in a minute for a trust fund.
I have a man cave, no bat cave though. I would trade in a minute for a trust fund.
I've been cramming a fully function woodworking shop into a smallish two-car garage (no pun) for about six years. Since we're redoing the basement and my little computer/man-nook is going to go back to being the foyer into the back yard, I have decided to move all of the power tools and such out to my fathers, who will get far more use out of it (he's about to retire).
Sure, a little piece of me is going to die with each tool loaded on to the truck, but I'll rationalize it by knowing that I'm going to be commandeering 10x10, inclosed and insulated, with floor to ceiling built-in shelves, enough juice to power three computers, a tv and a small frig (required), plus my leather easy chair that got bounced from the living room to make room for the two-year-old's new train set table.
A true man cave.
garage mahal said...
Speaking of job creation: Since Walker's budget was passed, Wisconsin has lost jobs for six straight months. But liberals don't know what they're talking about? Yah right.
You support Obama's decision to kill the Keystone XL Pipeline.
You have no credibility on "jobs"
Jay: Garage has no credibility on jobs for lots of reasons including the fact that he hasn't one. As a trust funder he can claim to be 100% on commission and to get nothing unless he sells something. Which is technically correct since he sells something and needs no income from commissions. I have known a bunch of them over the years and G has all, every, earmark of being one. Including pretending to want to be one.
Michael
How much are you willing to bet, right here, and right now? Put up or shut up time, big talker.
Garage: I don't bet against trust funders, pal.
Hahaha. All bark, no bite. Run along little doggie!
Garage: Dude, there is no other explanation for your economic stupidity than your trust fund. And I do not make bets with trust funders. You can bait me all you like but I won't bet with a trust funder.
Garage: By the way, being a trust funder is not something that you yourself did so I wouldn't be ashamed of it were I you.
What's funny Michael: Some asshole did some oppo research and posted here on Althouse where I work a while back. Apparently I struck a nerve, which is what I suspect is going with you about this trust fund nonsense.
Also funny: There is someone on this very thread that knows where I work.
Michael said...
Jay: Garage has no credibility on jobs for lots of reasons including the fact that he hasn't one.
Now that I believe.
"...enough juice to power three computers..."
Not a lot of juice.
Unless the computers are small children and the juice is apple.
Or the computers are apple and the juice are the small children.
'Row'. 'Row'.
Garage. You work at Althouse?
I plan on logging in as soon as I get home from the gym.
"... But the Smartest Men in the Room, through their own fuckups, received hundreds of billions of dollars. Stick in that in your fucking pipe and smoke it!.."
Funny cause when GM received billions of taxpayer dollars to save them from pies poor management, I kept hearing from your side how necessary that bailout was.
Garage. You work at Althouse?
No. Are you admitting you were wrong? Laughably wrong.
The headline in todays Appleton Post-Crescent is that people are "lining up" to oppose Walker. One person declares her candidacy and the Post publishes that as people "lining up"? Madison isnt the only WI city was a crappy newspaper
Garage. "What's funny Michael: Some asshole did some oppo research and posted here on Althouse where I work a while back"
You work at Althouse! Dude, i was wrong. Unless she doesnt pay you in which case you could still be a trust funder. I am more confused than ever, especially how you could be so profoundly ignorant of economics and still be a working man. I bet the professor is a good boss.
"I haven't received a dime from the government."
"Garage: I will repeat. Your incomprehension is stunning."
Liberals lie. Incomprehension would be an advancement.
Don't doubt it.
I am more confused than ever, especially how you could be so profoundly ignorant of economics and still be a working man.
Maybe, but as I said earlier, I can't be any worse at economics than your banking colleagues appear to be. And you don't appear any better than they at admitting your mistakes. I would blame your advanced age, but my mother is 87 and she is sharper than ever. Must be something else.
If the government does not create jobs [...] why did the Walker regime throw $4 million at Spectrum Brands... under the guise of job creation or retention?
Er, for job retention?
If you spend a bunch of money to keep 100 jobs from leaving the state, the net benefit to your state is that you keep, say, 98 jobs you would otherwise have lost. The other state loses 100 jobs it would otherwise have gained. The economy as a whole is 2 jobs worse off, but "the economy as a whole" isn't the problem of a state governor or legislature; they're out for themselves.
Of course, if EVERY state does this -- and every state does -- then there's no net benefit for anybody. Just a wasteful transfer of money from taxpayers to people who make campaign contributions.
I can't be any worse at economics than your banking colleagues appear to be.
"His banking colleagues?"
Does Michael work for the Obama administration? Or is he one of the handful of Wall Street insiders who don't? :)
Garage. The mistake the bankers made was to lend money to people who had shit credit and no intention of paying back the borrowed money. The bankers admit that many, if not most, people need to rent and not buy because most have not the means for home ownership. Everyone now admits that it was a mistake to loan to deadbeats and then to leverage those bets. No one in banking does not admit that mistake. Only dumbasses think that it takes one to tango.
I am in an entirely different area of investment banking than those who conceived and packaged many of those esoteric loans and the synthetics that mirrored them. I doubt you know the difference between a merchant bank, an investment banker, a mortgage banker or a bank teller. Bankers are just a political foil to you.
Comedy Gold: [in reverse order]
I doubt you know the difference between a merchant bank, an investment banker, a mortgage banker or a bank teller
Garage. The mistake the bankers made was to lend money to people who had shit credit and no intention of paying back the borrowed money.
Not too mention you are like a million fucking light years off from the true trajectory of my life history. Full of so much wrong and fail today, Comrade. I do enjoy the banter though.
"Not sure how widely owned the corporation is."
The Wisconsin State Journal is currently owned by Lee Enterprises, which has newspapers (and I think a TV station or two) all over the country.
Weird lil' quirk about the print media in Madison: The Capital Times and the Wisconsin State Journal were two of the 3-4 daily newspapers back-in-the-day. Both the WSJ and the TCT needed a new printing press but neither could afford one on their own, so they formed a third company called Madison Newspapers. This other company (MNI) owned the actual press and the building that held it, as well as ran the advertising dept, admin, delivery, and all the other parts of a newspaper except for the editorial part. (At the time, the afternoon paper was the more popular edition so in exchange for the TCT getting the prime slot they had to give up the Sunday edition to the WSJ.) This arrangement continues to this day, tho the TCT has now gone to a weekly "free" publication.
garage mahal said...
Maybe, but as I said earlier, I can't be any worse at economics than your banking colleagues appear to be.
Oh yes you can and are.
Just think how silly, ignorant, and incoherent your posts here are in that you have to argue with people that you actually have a job.
A person with a brain would re-think.
You'll march onward in a beclowning manner.
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