Althouse: "In the United States, emissions dropped by a remarkable 7 percent in the recession year of 2009, but rose by just over 4 percent last year..."

December 4, 2011

"In the United States, emissions dropped by a remarkable 7 percent in the recession year of 2009, but rose by just over 4 percent last year..."

"This country is the world’s second-largest emitter of greenhouse gases, pumping 1.5 billion tons of carbon into the atmosphere last year."

As Joni Mitchell sang in "Big Yellow Taxi": "Don't it always seem to go/That you don't know what you've got til it's gone?"

How about a little love for recession when we've got it?

117 comments:

Wally Kalbacken said...: I recently upped my emissions.; 12/4/11, 4:53 PM
Anonymous said...: I don't think this thing that's been in the air for eons is going to hurt anybody or anything. But I don't believe a lot of religious hooey.; 12/4/11, 4:53 PM
MayBee said...: It seems to me the recession-like living conditions are exactly what the AGWers want the living conditions to be permanently, and by law.; 12/4/11, 4:56 PM
Phil 314 said...: BO's initiatives worked!!; 12/4/11, 4:56 PM
Chip S. said...: Well, there's cyclical effects and then there's secular trends. Or are you skeptical about the environmental Kuznets curve?

wv reconiz: to be able to ID a stripper without her g-string; 12/4/11, 4:57 PM
Phil 314 said...: Next you're going to tell me the ocean level has dropped; 12/4/11, 4:57 PM
sakredkow said...: I had a wonderful day at the beach today in the Great Lakes! Very balmy, we sat in our long-sleeved shirts enjoying a rare December treat.; 12/4/11, 4:58 PM
HT said...: What is it that's so good about the recession & emissions?

___
phx said...

I had a wonderful day at the beach today in the Great Lakes! Very balmy, we sat in our long-sleeved shirts enjoying a rare December treat.

12/4/11 4:58 PM
____

Get used to it, if you're not already.; 12/4/11, 5:01 PM
mesquito said...: Imagine how good The Black Death was for the planet.; 12/4/11, 5:03 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/4/11, 5:04 PM
Anonymous said...: I'm still looking forward to the day we don't know we've got Joni Mitchell.; 12/4/11, 5:05 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: I don't think this thing that's been in the air for eons is going to hurt anybody or anything. But I don't believe a lot of religious hooey.

That's the point, isn't it? Anyone who goes from AGC (cooling) to AGW (warming) to ACC (climate change) is in it for the religion, and not the science. Or, even two out of three.; 12/4/11, 5:05 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: Next you're going to tell me the ocean level has dropped.

I think that it has in some places. Problem is that the model where melting glaciers in the northern hemisphere is, by necessity, greatly simplified. For one thing, continents go up and down for different reasons. For another, ice and glaciers haven't been reacting uniformly around the planet. And, finally, how do you define the ocean level any way?; 12/4/11, 5:10 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: I recently upped my emissions.

That was my initial response to this too. But, in my case, probably more a wish that I had, than that I actually had done so, since increasing my carbon emissions would take more work than doing essentially nothing (except stocking up on real light bulbs before the end of the year).; 12/4/11, 5:13 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: What is it that's so good about the recession & emissions?

An excuse to increase government regulation, while further deepening the recession, in order to justify even more government regulations and involvement in the economy?; 12/4/11, 5:15 PM
Synova said...: "It seems to me the recession-like living conditions are exactly what the AGWers want the living conditions to be permanently, and by law."

MayBee has it. The economic first-world has to be crippled and the third-world has to be kept in idyllic poverty. The developing world can't be shamed out of their industrial revolutions nor kept in non-technological poverty, so we'll just ignore their carbon emissions for now in favor of trying to shame the US, because lord knows we love the shame.

But anyone who thinks that economic disaster is good for the environment simply hasn't thought. Wealth allows us the option of making "green" choices. It also gives us options not available to those who don't have that comfortable margin between them and starvation.; 12/4/11, 5:15 PM
Mikio said...: Newt urging action on AGW in 2007

Oh please let it be Newt. haha; 12/4/11, 5:18 PM
Joe said...: (The Crypto Jew)

It seems to me the recession-like living conditions are exactly what the AGWers want the living conditions to be permanently, and by law
No, because the drop, I’ll bet is not severe enough. Think 1850 without the factories….; 12/4/11, 5:20 PM
Brian Brown said...: It seems to me the recession-like living conditions are exactly what the AGWers want

Actually, since in this recession you can still own an SUV and incandescent light bulb, they want it worse.

Much worse.; 12/4/11, 5:22 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: "This country is the world’s second-largest emitter of greenhouse gases, pumping 1.5 billion tons of carbon into the atmosphere last year."

You've got to buy into the global warming bullshit for this to matter in the least,...Jesus, Ann, are you still trying to remind us "the good people" are the ones dumb enough to respond to the constant "green" nudging we're receiving?

Simply incredible,...; 12/4/11, 5:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Maybee nailed it and those who seconded her with, "no, they want it worse" hammered it all the way in. Only when we go back to "1850 without the factories" they won't let us use any animal labor or eat any meat because that would be cruel.; 12/4/11, 5:38 PM
Hagar said...: Imagine how good The Black Death was for the planet.

Not to mention the European invasion of the Americas.; 12/4/11, 5:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Sorry, I mean MayBee.; 12/4/11, 5:40 PM
Ralph L said...: Government actions to reduce acid rain have caused sulfur deficiencies in many of our customers' fields. The state soil testers didn't even bother measuring sulfur levels until a few years ago.

I wonder if the new, stricter diesel emission standards will put more carbon in the air, since some of the old soot falls to earth.; 12/4/11, 5:40 PM
Moose said...: I think all those OWS kiddies should fart into baggies and bury them. Call it carbon sequestration.; 12/4/11, 5:44 PM
edutcher said...: Well, we can blame it on Recovery Summer.

Or all the vacations taken by the Obamas and the Pelosis.

MayBee said...

It seems to me the recession-like living conditions are exactly what the AGWers want the living conditions to be permanently, and by law.

It was also the goal of the New Deal.

Funny how that works out.; 12/4/11, 5:58 PM
rhhardin said...: It sounds like an AF, anthropomorphic fluctuation.; 12/4/11, 6:00 PM
sakredkow said...: Well, we can blame it on Recovery Summer.

With those extended summer hours.; 12/4/11, 6:01 PM
rhhardin said...: There's greenroom gasses, from pundits waiting to go on, this year.; 12/4/11, 6:04 PM
REI said...: There is something being blocked right now that would do great good for the US and the world if it could proceed. It is the nuclear project being backed by Bill Gates.

The traveling wave reactor, that uses spent nuclear fuel, and can run untouched for decades, is something that could be operating now, and would be, if not for our insane regulatory mess.

These reactors would be buried in the ground at thousands of substations, providing a level of protection from sabotage and EMP attack available in no other way.

The grid would be dramatically simplified and toughened, and the power would be far less expensive than from any other known source.

The problem of storing spent nuclear fuel would be solved, and it would become an asset instead of an expensive problem.

As reported in the Wall Street Journal, the Microsoft founder is funding and guiding a start-up called TerraPower LLC, where he serves as chairman, Mr. Gates has become a player in a field of inventors whose goal is to make nuclear reactors smaller, cheaper and safer than today's nuclear energy sources.

The 30-person company recently completed a basic design for a reactor that theoretically could run untouched for decades on spent nuclear fuel. Now the company is seeking a partner to help build the experimental reactor, and a country willing to host it.

To understand how a traveling-wave reactor works, think of a wood-burning stove. Today's reactors use dried wood—enriched uranium-235—that burns hot and quickly. A traveling-wave reactor would start with a little bit of dried wood to get a hot flame going, but most of the fuel would be green, or wet, wood—depleted uranium-238. The wet logs wouldn't burn as hot as the dried ones, but they would continue to burn long after the hot flame goes out.

It's a slow, controlled reaction that could continue over many years without need of human intervention. And in TerraPower's design, the core of the reactor, where fission takes place, would be small: a cylinder about 10 feet wide and 13 feet long.

That such a project is being blocked is the tip of the iceberg of insane overregulation. This reactor should be designed, tested, and implemented here in the USA, and soon. The international market for these reactors would provide massive revenue for decades, and truly end the world’s reliance on fossil fuel.; 12/4/11, 6:05 PM
john said...: "pumping 1.5 billion tons of carbon ..."

It's not so much the carbon, it's that damn pump. If we could just find the switch to that pump, these people would quickly have to find another metaphor.

OTOH, if we work a bit harder and get it up to a couple billion or more, we could go full Sagan on ourselves.; 12/4/11, 6:06 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: From InstaPundit:

CAN YOU WRITE A FULL-LENGTH STORY ABOUT WEAKENING SUPPORT FOR GLOBAL-WARMING REMEDIES AND NOT MENTION CLIMATEGATE? You can if you’re Neela Banerjee in the L.A. Times.

Or Ann, doing a post like this one, and acting like ClimateGate never happened either,...oooh, carbon emissions - Hold me, Mommy!; 12/4/11, 6:21 PM
Henry said...: MayBee has it right. Emissions reduction aligns with recession.

It's very important to note that this puts the lie to the myth of green jobs.; 12/4/11, 6:22 PM
Anonymous said...: "The combustion of coal represented more than half of the growth in emissions, the report found."

Caused by the Bamster's govt-sponsored electric cars?; 12/4/11, 6:22 PM
Ambrose said...: "Imagine how good The Black Death was for the planet."

The resulting lower population levels in the early 15th century may have contributed to the Renaissance

(not that I am saying the BD was a good thing); 12/4/11, 6:39 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: This means that Al Gore's beachfront mansion could get swept away by the sea any day now.

Very troubling.; 12/4/11, 6:41 PM
MadisonMan said...: I thought this was an interesting article on what happens when CO2 builds up in the atmosphere, irrespective of how it changes the temperature, or not.

Buffering acid for the win at the hatchery.; 12/4/11, 6:53 PM
ndspinelli said...: Joni Mitchell is the talentless counterpart to Bob Dylan.; 12/4/11, 6:57 PM
Anonymous said...: The comments to your linked article are illuminating, Madison.

You could read them. But it wouldn't help you. There is no helping the True Believer.

But humor me: how many carbon molecules can dance on the head of a pin?; 12/4/11, 7:01 PM
bgates said...: It seems to me the recession-like living conditions are exactly what the AGWers want the living conditions to be permanently, and by law.

I don't think that's precisely right. I think they want vibrant and exciting living conditions in New York City, San Francisco, Seattle, and the hip and/or non-white ethnic areas of Chicago and Los Angeles;
they want full employment in the bars, playhouses, museums, sushi restaurants, and nightclubs in every college town in the country (and of course at the colleges themselves);
and they want every single American not covered by the above categories to die.

They're opposed to the existence of vast amounts of human suffering. But only because it presumes the existence of vast amounts of humans.; 12/4/11, 7:04 PM
Peano said...: The increase solidified a trend of ever-rising emissions that scientists fear will make it difficult, if not impossible, to forestall severe climate change in coming decades.

The science is settled.; 12/4/11, 7:17 PM
Browndog said...: "Conservation"...the Good Witch-

Was highjacked by "Environmentalism", the evil, progressive Witch.

The Crying Indian still cries...for different reasons....and the same reasons.; 12/4/11, 7:25 PM
Chuck66 said...: We can have both....a better economy and limits on emissions., Just open up Yuca Mountain for nuclear waste.; 12/4/11, 7:30 PM
MadisonMan said...: You could read them. But it wouldn't help you. There is no helping the True Believer.

I don't need to read the comments to know what they say. They are as predictable as the change in the seasons.

To answer your question: It depends. Is the pin submerged in sea water, and is the temperature of the sea water changing?; 12/4/11, 7:33 PM
MadisonMan said...: By the way: Go Pack!; 12/4/11, 7:33 PM
Chuck66 said...: Browndog, I am a rightwinger who supports conservation, recycling, mass transit, etc. The less we use of scarce but valuable resources, the more we have of them, and the cheaper they stay.

But like the animal "rights" movement, the conservation cause has been highjacked by the looney left.; 12/4/11, 7:33 PM
Synova said...: "There is something being blocked right now that would do great good for the US and the world if it could proceed. It is the nuclear project being backed by Bill Gates."

The opposition to nuclear of any sort is what proves the real motivation of the AGW church.

Nuclear provides abundant power and no carbon emissions to speak of.

You'd think that the people fussing about CO2 would be pushing nuclear. But no, they're not. So it must be the abundant power that they are opposed to having. If we had abundant power people might think they can breed, they might build a civilization, they might do all sorts of things if they had abundant power.; 12/4/11, 7:36 PM
gadfly said...: Sez here that new satellite data shows North America to be a NET USER of CO2. Dueling climate models, one of which uses real data.

Then there is the confusion among climate "scientists" and politicos between cause and effect. It seems that tests prove that warming precedes increases in CO2 -- not the other way around.; 12/4/11, 7:37 PM
Chuck66 said...: To show how wacked the so-called enviromental movement has become, look at the proposed iron mine in the Mellon-Hurley area. Even though iron mines operate without problems in Minnesota and the UP, and even though the Flambeau mine in Ladysmith went off without a hitch, the enviromentlist wackos are trying to block the Wisconsin mine by using junk science.

Why? I can only think of one region. Religion. Neo-Pagen nature worshippers have anti-mining as part of their religious dogma.; 12/4/11, 7:37 PM
traditionalguy said...: That Factoid is a trifecta of nonsense.

CO2 is not a greenhouse gas, even if there was any greenhouse effect of long IR radiation "trapping, which there is not.

Sorry, but the truth is out now.

The story based upon measurements of CO2 emissions they throw around in a scientific like jargon do not exist either. They are also made up.

I thought educated people commented here. What's up?; 12/4/11, 7:37 PM
Anonymous said...: I don't need to read the comments to know what they say.

The comments are a great discussion of several alternate explanations for the phenomenon.

I had a great professor who was a Catholic priest. It was his view that a good priest and a good professor must understand the arguments of opponents. Otherwise, he said, your belief system will be destroyed in a generation.

I'll let you draw the inferences about the quality of your own work and the future of the environmental crusade.; 12/4/11, 7:39 PM
Virginia said...: Chuck66 said...

Browndog, I am a rightwinger who supports conservation, recycling, mass transit, etc. The less we use of scarce but valuable resources, the more we have of them, and the cheaper they stay.

But like the animal "rights" movement, the conservation cause has been highjacked by the looney left.

12/4/11 7:33 PM

____

I think this is too easy and blame-shifting.

What happened to those Republicans of whom you say you are one? *You* were hijacked by the left? How does that work? No, I think you all just quieted down too much. You lost your voice. Or to put it in a more recognizable way: you couldn't figure out how to interrupt a 'looney' conversation.

Conservation is key. We can talk about alternatives but it doesn't mean much without conservation.; 12/4/11, 7:41 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: @Madison Man - It's tedentious at best (and blatantly dishonest at worst) to use the scare term "Ocean acidification" to describe a shift in ocean ph from 8.13 to 8.08 over 20 years.

The oceans are a wee bit less alkaline than they were 20 years ago. They are not acidic, or close to it.

And the idea that humans can optimally manage ocean ph levels to two decimal places is absurd on its face.

But by all means, thanks for sharing the next big environmental hysteria with us. No doubt the only things that can save us from the doom of "Ocean acidification" are "higher taxes" and "giving more power to the government".; 12/4/11, 7:43 PM
Titus said...: I just watched The Kids Are Alright and could not stop crying.

I cry a lot.; 12/4/11, 7:45 PM
MadisonMan said...: btw, 7M, I found that article after reading two more interesting one, experiments on growing shellfish in different CO2 environments. (here and here). They seemed a lot more robust (naturally) than results from "the field" even though those results seemed to confirm the lab results.

I write this as a lover of quahog.; 12/4/11, 7:45 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: What an interesting song linked. I had previously only heard the newer, rock version.

Always hated it and still do. The fact is, for every acre of pavement that is paradise no more, many acres of paradise (that not a single soul visits or appreciates) are not paved.

Delving into why some paradise is paved whereas other land which could be considered paradise isn't will eventually lead to the concept of civilization in any conversation it would seem to me.

That said, the song's message, that it "always" seems to go people are unappreciative and displaying something like the opposite of humble gratitude, grips me.

If a person getting paid from William F. Buckley's memory feels free to advance those who soil Buckley's legacy that shows me many things. For one, I've had to conclude my sycophancy toward Buckley isn't on as solid of ground as I had presumed, or else Steyn's death-fantasy-fuckwiticy would have been sensed sooner by those at NR/NRO and addressed such that Steyn would be persuaded to view Buckley's winning playbooks (sybolized by this book and it's cover but Buckley left us Americans many winning playbooks), and follow suit.; 12/4/11, 7:50 PM
Wince said...: "Don't it always seem to go/That you don't know what you've got til it's gone?"

With respect to Obama's reelection, I'm willing to take that risk.; 12/4/11, 8:06 PM
Anonymous said...: Madison -- I'm afraid to respond at this point. At this point, you are simply the religious zealot who keeps coming up with Bible verses no matter what.

Maybe more protein in your diet. It's my understanding the deprogrammers make sure the cult members they are trying to reform eat plenty of protein.; 12/4/11, 8:08 PM
MadisonMan said...: @Maguro, enhanced CO2 will acidify the ocean, the theory is that acidification might be detrimental of shellfish development. Experiments in the lab show that changes from 250 ppm to 350 ppm in CO2 do have a negative impact in the lab on shellfish development, and that that impact continues as concentrations increase. Whether or not that lab result occurs in nature is as yet an open question.; 12/4/11, 8:12 PM
Anonymous said...: So, so far, by his own admission, all Madison knows is that scientists are willfully killing mollusks in the places where the scientists work.

I note also that we are not given the motives of these scientists for this behavior.; 12/4/11, 8:14 PM
MadisonMan said...: Seven, my diet tonight was mostly vegetables and fruit. Squash, brussel sprouts, grapefruit. On the plus side, though, the squash was positively swimming in chicken and bacon fat. (The kid ate the chicken and the bacon strips that were baked on top of the cut up squash).

Not sure how much protein it was.; 12/4/11, 8:16 PM
Titus said...: My doc was Mark Ruffalo's doc when he had a brain something or another. My doc has a pic with Mark and him in his office. Mark's character in The Kids Are Alright loves Joni Mitchell. He fucks a lesbian, played by the amazing and beautiful Julianne Moore.

I know Boston and Mass is all liberal and awful and shit but when it comes to health care professionals it is number one. The Saudi Royals come to Boston specifically and take out full floors at the hospitals when they are getting treatment.

I had lunch with my doc Friday. He had lunch with my parents when he was in Madison doing some presentation. He knew I was in HR and I actually helped him get a job in industry at Novartis. He is a Harvard doc. He is jew, natch. His wife is a lawyer. He has three sons, one at Brown Med School, one at Tufts Med School and one at Harvard Law. He told me he told them they will have everything they will ever need but there number one goal in life will be to give back, money is secondary. Although, during lunch he asked if refills were free. One of the sons, on an internship, lived in Vietnam, and started the first HIV center there.

He and his wife Esther will be celebrating their 35th anniversary traveling to Cambodia and Vietnam.

I had cancer at the age of 30 and he saved my life. Each family member would come to Boston during my 3 hour chemo. Chemo lasted for 6 months, weekly I would drag my sorry ass into the hospital. Afterwards I would throw up for 3 days, not eat, not be able to speak for days and felt like I was ready to die. I would write things down in order to communicate with my mother. I lost all my hair, was pale white and weighed 120 pounds. I couldn't put any food in my mouth so I was hooked up to some machine that pumped my veins full of nutrients. People who saw me then said I looked like death. My mom would go to a church and pray all day. She befriended amazing nuns who she still corresponds with. I wanted to go back to Wisconsin but he told me Wisconsin may be good for cows but people from all over the world come to him for this treatment and I am going to back to Wisconsin? He told me if I went back to Wisconsin I would die. Years later he told me another patient similar to me went back to West Virginia...and died.

He is the most amazing person I have ever met and I deeply love him. And he told me I was going to survive. I am so grateful I met a man like him. He is an angel.

When I think of the amazing accomplished heath care provider I have I think...what the fuck does some poor schmuck do in small town America?; 12/4/11, 8:23 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: Mad Man - You do realize that atmospheric CO2 levels have been well over 350 ppm in the past and that shellfish did just fine back then?

I mean, has "science" really decided that the ideal ocan ph is 8.13 and that any devation from that is cause for alarm and, er, "global action"?

If so, science is an ass, to paraphrase Dickens.; 12/4/11, 8:29 PM
jeff said...: What country is the number 1 emitter? How big is the spread between number 1 and 2? And how bad must the protests be in that country based on all the noise in this one?; 12/4/11, 8:32 PM
bagoh20 said...: China.

Since Tienanmen Square it's been kind of quiet. A silent spring.; 12/4/11, 8:35 PM
BobJustBob said...: Over at Watts Up With That they discussed the oyster problem. The acid problem?

Identified water quality/hatchery problems:
Shellfish hatcheries have historically used coarsely filtered but otherwise untreated seawater for larval culture with few problems, and larval shellfish have thrived in water in the Pacific Ocean and coastal estuaries. Upwelling of deep, cold, nutrient-rich water from the continental shelf off the coast of Oregon and Washington is typical during summer months in this region and drives high primary productivity.

Since 2003, however, higher than normal upwelling increased the extent and intensity of intrusions of deep acidic, hypoxic water off the Oregon and Washington coasts, and contributed to the formation of persistent dead zones. These events have resulted in fundamental changes in the character of our coastal bays, which contribute to high larval mortality throughout the entire year.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/21/oyster-crisis-yale-360-wwf-eco-activist-elizabeth-grossman-wrong-again-about-ocean-acidification/

She would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddlesome kids!

This Internet thing has promise...; 12/4/11, 8:41 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Although chronologically it might not make sense (the ups and downs do not coincide that well), William F. Buckley Jr. and his intellectual framework, written as well as spoken -- though in my limited online searching skills I have not been able to see entire Firing Line episodes much, to my dismay -- resemble Vince Lombardi ('59-'67 Head Coach and '68 GM).

America was in great peril when WFB arrived on the scene, as was the 1958 1-10-1 Green Bay Packers.

You all can fill in the details, but I trust you catch my drift about winning playbooks existing, who wrote them, and who not only reads but understands and follows them.; 12/4/11, 8:46 PM
Unknown said...: Since CO2 emissions have little to do with climate change..who cares other than bureaucrats with a wish to control?; 12/4/11, 8:49 PM
Anonymous said...: How will you respond to Bob, Mad Man? I suggest something from Song of Songs. It's beautiful, and woefully under-quoted.

I humbly suggest:

My beloved is mine and I am his.
He feasts in a field of lilies.

Do you think that field of lilies means what I think it means?; 12/4/11, 8:50 PM
sakredkow said...: But like the animal "rights" movement, the conservation cause has been highjacked by the looney left.

Not really. I don't think it has to be that way. The CC needs to also be represented by people such as yourself who have good will.; 12/4/11, 8:51 PM
MadisonMan said...: You do realize that atmospheric CO2 levels have been well over 350 ppm in the past and that shellfish did just fine back then?

The studies I cited are for cold waters, for which waters CO2 solubility is higher. As I said, I love quahogs. I do not know enough about the fossil history of bivalves to comment on their distribution with respect to cold water during the Carboniferous (for example) when CO2 levels were higher.

An interesting question (I find it interesting, at least) is how warm can the ocean get before CO2 is released due to decreasing solubility and the pH drops? I should think there's some kind of oscillation at work here, between temperature and pH.

To answer your final question, as far as I can tell science has only observed that the pH is changing. Policy makers are the ones who decide which pH is "ideal". Hope this helps.; 12/4/11, 8:52 PM
sakredkow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/4/11, 8:55 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amilm-QQZkQ

Tradition, and youtube, are the voice of those not standing round the corner.; 12/4/11, 8:56 PM
bagoh20 said...: You're starting to see the damage done by the dishonest, corrupt AGW scientific consensus cabal.

From now on, we will waste enormous energy and time just verifying what "scientists" tells us. Science, now more than ever, will be political. Opportunities will be lost, maybe fatal mistakes will be made, because we can no longer trust science. It's a despicable tragedy caused by small men with too much power.
In fact, that's a accurate description of the United Nations in general. It poisons everything it touches.; 12/4/11, 8:57 PM
Anonymous said...: Policy makers are the ones who decide which pH is "ideal".

Suppose you could go back in time, to 1700, or 1900, or even 1960, and you asked someone what the government should mandate as the proper ph level in the ocean?

What do you think that person would say? Why?

Much depends on how you understand the story of King Canute and the waves. If you understand it properly you'll know that King Canute was much savvier about science than Mad Man.; 12/4/11, 8:58 PM
MadisonMan said...: @Seven, as I said, I found that article after reading about the two laboratory experiments. Perhaps that author was grasping at straws. All I can show you is the theory and the laboratory confirmation of the theory. Finding something in nature to confirm an experiment takes time.

As for lilies, my least favorite flower. I've lived in two houses, and have actively eradicated the day lilies at both of them. I put them by the road, let people know, and they take them! Suckers.; 12/4/11, 8:58 PM
sakredkow said...: Opportunities will be lost, maybe fatal mistakes will be made, because we can no longer trust science.

Bagoh don't be such a victim. Take a little responsibility for yourself.

Fatal mistakes happen. When they happen to us personally, it doesn't really matter who or what caused it. Can't take it back because "It's the scientific community's fault."; 12/4/11, 9:01 PM
Anonymous said...: In my humble experience in Seattle: Some greens are actually dangerously Malthusian...some are ex hippies, some conservationists, some naturalists, some anti-establishment..for many of them science and environmental science are one in the same.

There are some actual scientists and thinkers, but they can be swayed by public sentiment and rising and falling trends, and who gives out the money.

Most get their livelihoods from the public trough, though not all, and there's as much enlightened behavior as you'd expect at a trough.

"Activism" is a virtue, regardless of fact or knowledge of a subject and it's closely related to the social and political philosophies of Leftism, humanism, materialist egalitarianism etc.

"Community" is a buzzword, and there's always some new law protecting salmon, orcas, enforcing existing recycling laws etc.; 12/4/11, 9:01 PM
MadisonMan said...: Suppose you could go back in time, to 1700, or 1900, or even 1960, and you asked someone what the government should mandate as the proper ph level in the ocean?

The first two years, it's a lot easier to answer:

What is pH?

(pH was first proposed in the 19-teens, IIRC); 12/4/11, 9:02 PM
Anonymous said...: pH was first proposed in the 19-teens, IIRC

Before that, people just drank vinegar because they thought it was water.

Your understanding of the philosophy of science is woeful. That's among the reasons why you stick to verse.; 12/4/11, 9:04 PM
Anonymous said...: As to actual climate science, I remain skeptical but open, especially when I see so many people and so many reasons that have little to do with supporting actual science.; 12/4/11, 9:04 PM
Anonymous said...: SHOULD stick to verse; 12/4/11, 9:05 PM
Psychedelic George said...: Global warming is so yesterday.

Fracking is where the activist action is. Where I live I actually see street signs up denouncing. This is at the intersection where Whole Foods is...

Fascinating...once one scam is discredited, they move on to a new one. It will take about 10-15 years of wrangling before fracking fears are dealt with.

Then it will be something else...like the dangers of commercial space tourism emissions, insufficient radiation shielding in Virgin Galactic ships, or fears that housebots will run wild during our noctural dormant hours and crawl up our nostrils.; 12/4/11, 9:08 PM
Anonymous said...: George said:

"Then it will be something else..."

Well put. Except when you elect someone like Obama, and these clowns can kill thousands of jobs, and envelop the rest of us and the economy in their righteous idiocy and vast bureaucratic bloat.

Keep in mind this stuff has been taught in the schools for decades.; 12/4/11, 9:16 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Bagoh don't be such a victim. Take a little responsibility for yourself. ".

I'm sorry, but I don't understand that. I'm not even a player here. I'm not gonna be making the science, setting policy, or suffering the mistakes.

I live a comfortable life in a secure nation. But when science gets mixed up with global politics, millions can die as they have and continue to from things like the DDT ban.

Maybe the distrust is a good thing, long overdue

But to your point: I'm not the one I'm worried about.; 12/4/11, 9:17 PM
sakredkow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/4/11, 9:21 PM
MadisonMan said...: That's among the reasons why you stick to verse.

Well, I did cantor at church today.; 12/4/11, 9:22 PM
sakredkow said...: And yet, disasters, accidents, miscalculations, F-U's, all happen, at anyone's expense.

To say "now we can never trust the scientists" is a little bit victimology to me.

You aren't totally at a loss in evaluating who to believe.

Being on his/her own resources in figuring out who to trust is kind of the condition of a man.; 12/4/11, 9:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Regarding our hostess' suggestion that we show the recession a little love before its gone: Being employed in the corporate world, I have learned to enjoy recessions because my employer doesn't waste money on having consultants train me on achieving "breakthrough" results, nor am I pulled from my job and sent away for training by consultants who talk about being more productive. When good times resume, we'll again be subjected to the tyranny of the consultants.; 12/4/11, 9:28 PM
ricpic said...: Wow, Titus, I just read your post at 8:23. You've done some sufferin'. Gives me a whole new perspective on you. Doesn't change the fact that anyone who cries over The Kids Are Alright has lousy critical faculties. But still, a new perspective...; 12/4/11, 9:43 PM
MadisonMan said...: I was trying to remember if Titus had told that story before.

Memory isn't what it used to be.; 12/4/11, 9:47 PM
sakredkow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/4/11, 9:48 PM
sakredkow said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/4/11, 9:53 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: I always thought it was odd that the panel chairman of the UN's climate science group, the IPCC, is Rajendra Pachauri, who is a railroad engineer! Watt the f is up with that?; 12/4/11, 10:01 PM
bagoh20 said...: Another blessing of recession is that many of my large corporate customers no longer sick their MBA's on my company trying to get us to sign on to the latest business management fad they learned about at university.

This always happens in good times: reams of paper and silly new words for old ideas. It's all very expensive and time consuming, and invariably falls apart never amounting to anything that survives recession.

A recession is good for culling the herd of such bullshit. When you are struggling to survive, the truly necessary stands out like a beacon. If you aren't carrying the light you are in trouble. I have a pile of business cards from such formerly employed graduates.; 12/4/11, 10:14 PM
bagoh20 said...: I don't know if it's well known, but I just discovered the coolest site.

They have 2700 videos that are short educational spots about all kinds of things: mathematics, science, politics, music, medicine, etc.

It's just a guy explaining things very well with simple graphics. Like having a tutor on any subject you want. Some are basic, and some are more advanced, but the guy is good teacher. Excellent resource for a home schooler, or if you just want to re-learn something you didn't quite get the first time or forgot. And it's free!

Khan Academy; 12/4/11, 10:25 PM
Titus said...: I never told this here madman and ricpic.

It's true an I just had a moment where I thought I would share. I am fab, yes, but I also very human. We all suffer.

now back to tits.; 12/4/11, 10:26 PM
Michael said...: Titus. Philo of Alexandria said it best all those centuries ago. "be kind, for they too are engaged in a great struggle"; 12/4/11, 10:34 PM
Heart_Collector said...: Little GTO, you're really lookin' fine
Three deuces and a four-speed and a 389
Listen to her tachin' up now, listen to her why-ee-eye-ine
C'mon and turn it on, wind it up, blow it out GTO

You oughta see her on a road course or a quarter mile
This little modified Pon-Pon has got plenty of style
She beats the gassers and the rail jobs, really drives 'em why-ee-eye-ild
C'mon and turn it on, wind it up, blow it out GTO

\
Gonna save all my money (turnin' it on, blowin' it out) and buy a GTO (turnin' it on, blowin' it out)
Get a helmet and a roll bar (turnin' it on, blowin' it out) and I'll be ready to go (turnin' it on, blowin' it out)
Take it out to Pomona (turnin' it on, blowin' it out) and let 'em know (turnin' it on, blowin' it out), yeah, yeah
That I'm the coolest thing around
Little buddy, gonna shut you down
When I turn it on, wind it up, blow it out GTO; 12/4/11, 11:28 PM
Ralph L said...: Well, I did cantor at church today
In a few years, they'll let you trot.; 12/5/11, 12:45 AM
Methadras said...: Bruce Hayden said...

Next you're going to tell me the ocean level has dropped.

I think that it has in some places. Problem is that the model where melting glaciers in the northern hemisphere is, by necessity, greatly simplified. For one thing, continents go up and down for different reasons. For another, ice and glaciers haven't been reacting uniformly around the planet. And, finally, how do you define the ocean level any way?

Or what the ideal temperature for the planet should be.; 12/5/11, 2:21 AM
Toad Trend said...: "Emissions rose 5.9 percent in 2010, according to an analysis released Sunday by the Global Carbon Project, an international collaboration of scientists tracking the numbers."

More dangerous than the supposed figures compiled by these so-called scientists would be the all-eggs-in one-basket trust we would be willing to give.

A jaundiced eye is standard in consideration of this 'report' from the old grey lady. The goal of these 'scientists' is to sound the alarm, so it is their stated interest to 'find' emissions.

Bullshit never goes out of style!; 12/5/11, 5:34 AM
Toad Trend said...: "A recession is good for culling the herd of such bullshit."

Yes. Cost-cutting. Fat-trimming.

Too bad there are few college-level courses on survival.

Most courses are geared to living in good times and assuming a certain level of activity. This is not realistic.

Assumptions are at the root of a lot of trouble these days.; 12/5/11, 5:39 AM
Joe Schmoe said...: I don't know if it's well known, but I just discovered the coolest site...Khan Academy.

Bagoh, I was going to make some wiseass comment about your being late to the party, but you deserve better.

This is a well-known site and another headache for higher ed. Unlike Phoenix University or other 'for-profit' colleges, Khan is free, which makes it harder to demonize it. The guy who did all of the videos, Salman Khan, now gets funding from Bill Gates' foundation.

I like the site myself, and I see it as a nice complement to traditional in-person learning. They're still working out the evaluation component. Is this the future of learning, all online? Can credentials from Khan Academy ever match sheepskins from traditional universities? Not anytime soon, but who knows in the long run.; 12/5/11, 5:43 AM
HT said...: Which came first green-ery or wealth or environmental exploitation? Wasn't it really: environmental exploitation/wealth/green?

Back to earlier comments and quoted comments - it isn't just the mere presence of carbon dioxide that those who believe in climate change say is the problem, it's the increase in carbon dioxide.

Just thought I'd point out the obvious.; 12/5/11, 6:56 AM
KCFleming said...: We live in a strange time, where the ability to collect and analyze data regarding our world is matched only by the doubt in its integrity and mendacity of its practitioners.; 12/5/11, 7:20 AM
Anonymous said...: But humor me: how many carbon molecules can dance on the head of a pin?

Approximately 44 million. It really is quite simple math.

What was your point?; 12/5/11, 8:00 AM
KCFleming said...: That's just how many can fit on the pinhead.

But how many can dance on it?

If it's a waltz or swing or hip hop, far fewer.; 12/5/11, 8:08 AM
Henry said...: dance implies gas, not diamond.; 12/5/11, 8:12 AM
Meade said...: MadisonMan said...
"I was trying to remember if Titus had told that story before."

He tells stories. Are any of them true?

Doubtful.; 12/5/11, 8:18 AM
KCFleming said...: "Henry said...
dance implies gas, not diamond."

That's how most of my dates used to go.; 12/5/11, 8:27 AM
sorepaw said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/5/11, 10:29 AM
sorepaw said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/5/11, 10:30 AM
sorepaw said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/5/11, 10:31 AM
Known Unknown said...: How about a little love for recession when we've got it?

I hope this is facetious.; 12/5/11, 2:07 PM
Meade said...: It is.; 12/5/11, 2:15 PM
Triangle Man said...: @Meade

Kids on the Intertubes would have responded with "WOOSH!"; 12/6/11, 9:09 AM