8:15: Rick Perry is the Tim Tebow.
8:20: Ron Paul identifies 2 factions in Congress: those who are for welfare and those who are for warfare. (He's against both.)
8:22: Listening to Huntsman, I blurt out: "He'd be a great candidate if only he hadn't worked in the Obama administration." He just can't get any respect. It's kind of sad! He was reelected governor with 80% of the vote. He's used to being immensely popular, so it must be bewildering not to get any traction. And yet, he knows exactly what his problem is. Too bad... perhaps for all of us.
8:25: The first commercial break. I go over to read what my son John is live-blogging:
9:07 - Rick Santorum is asked why he's doing so badly when he's spent more time in Iowa than any of the other candidates. "I'm counting on the people of Iowa to catch fire for me." He says he presents a "clear contrast" with the others because he's been a consistent conservative. If that's so clear, yet he's going nowhere, doesn't that imply that hardcore conservatism isn't the voters' top priority?(John is in the Eastern Time Zone.)
8:35: Ron Paul goes after Gingrich on government-sponsored enterprises. They're not private business. Gingrich, given a chance to defend himself, says some government-sponsored enterprises do a lot of good. Then Bachmann gets to pile on: Gingrich stands for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and "they need to be shut down."
8:45: Rick Perry seems to be trying to get in on that Ron Paul small-government magic. Perry's new thing: "Part-time Congress."
9:01: Megyn Kelly invites them to trash those terrible judges, the legislators in black robes. At one point, she insists that they all name their favorite Supreme Court Justice. Rick Perry says: "Alito, Thomas, or Roberts — pick one!" What about Scalia! Man! What happened? Scalia used to be the favorite. Next, it's Romney, and he recites: "Roberts, Thomas, Alito, and Scalia," then almost giggles, as if to say: I did it, I named all the conservative Justices!
9:02: Gingrich agrees about those 4 Justices, then chooses Scalia, because he's "the most intellectual." Hmmm, maybe that's why Scalia didn't rate with Perry.
9:03: Ron Paul says: "All of them are good and all of them are bad." And Bachmann puts Scalia at the top of her list, then adds the other 3: Roberts, Thomas, and Alito. Huntsman gives a little homily about the rule of law... then picks Roberts and Alito.
9:10: "A foreign policy based on 'pretty please,' you've got to be kidding." Romney mocks Obama's request that Iran return our drone.
9:21: "I'm very concerned about trying not to be zany," says Gingrich, in a reference to something Romney said the other day.
9:48: I'd like to see all of them with false eyelashes.
9:51: Gingrich would like to "eliminate abortions as a choice... defund Planned Parenthood and shift the money to pay for adoption services to give young women a choice of life rather than death." Why not eliminate the word "choice" then?
9:52: What happened to the Ronald Reagan commandment "Thou shalt not speak ill of another Republican?" That's the new question.
9:53: "There's an NFL player. His name doesn't come to mind, but he said if you don't get your tail kicked every now and then, you're not playing at a high enough level." Hey! That's the second time Perry dragged in football. Gratuitously. And ineptly reminding us of the way he can't remember stuff. And he wants to give "all you all" credit for letting him play at a high enough level. So he dragged in football again, quite unnecessarily, and got stuck not remembering something again.
9:54: Romney these attacks don't matter. Obama's the real opponent. Gingrich agrees: everyone on the stage is his "friend" and would be better than Barack Obama.
9:55: "I kind of like Huntsman. I think it's a shame he ruined himself by working for Obama," say I. Meade says, "I don't like him at all he's..." "Smarmy?" I volunteer. "Yeah, smarmy," says Meade. "He's a smarmdog."
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Ask them whether they (a) are afraid of the National Defense Authorization Act, currently roiling Glenn Greenwald, or (b) have read the bill! I don't understand why some people are addicted to the rush of feeling angry and afraid.
There sure have been a lot of debates this time. I wonder how many debates President Obama will agree to once the nominee has been decided.
When I checked the Republican Primary Debate Itinerary, I was surprised to find that not one was being hosted within 500 miles of me. 6,153 debates and not a single one within driving distance. The jerks!
The difference between Diane Sawyer and Megyn Kelly is like night and day. Megyn is not only easier on the eyes but a great questioner as well.
Since this will have the greatest national audience, it should get interesting. Perry or Santorum will have one last chance to take away some of Newt's support.
And maybe some of Paul's, also.
Reporter-centric questions, so far.
If that's so clear, yet he's going nowhere, doesn't that imply that hardcore conservatism isn't the voters' top priority?
At least not among enough of them, at least not his particular brand of them, and maybe not even among his own.
Santorum comes across as a lightweight.
And a whiner.
That's why he gets no support.
Fox News is in the tank for Romney and hates Newt.
Chris Wallace wants to incite a food fight - stooooopid questions, can we hook him off the stage?
I agree, Titus.
"He'd be a great candidate if only he hadn't worked in the Obama administration."
His time with the Obama administration has nothing to do with his unpopularity. His unpopularity was caused by his early campaign strategy: appeal to centrists and the media by bashing Republicans for being dogmatic conservatives. He treated the primaries like the general election, ignoring the base in favor of the electorate.
This explains why the only people who like Huntsman are Democrats. He's done nothing during the primaries to appeal to the Republican base. Why should he expect a high level of support when he's done nothing to indicate he wants support?
Newt has now complimented Romney twice - strange strategy!
Romney is getting wonky - he's really in his lane.
Lawyers are the problem, as our next POTUS just stated clearly.
The history is subjective, which, compared to a lie, is all it takes for conservatism to win.
I feel quite well tonight, and hope all Americans realize our future looks as bright as can be expected, which is brighter than anywhere else with the exception of history.
Did Huntsman dismiss NATO, Africa, the Middle East, Russia, and all others when he said the only 21st Century relationship that mattered was the American/Chinese?
Is this something or is this nothing?
Like the Patton speech that left out the Soviets and got him in trouble (in the movie at least).
Perry brought up the part-time Congress in the last debate. It's one of the few things that I remember anyone saying that I liked. Can you run a campaign on ideas that would be almost impossible to implement?
He also said he wanted to privatize the TSA and criminalize security groping. I would enjoy watching that but I doubt he would have an easy time shutting down a large government agency no matter how unpopular they are.
Perry's suggestion to have Congress in session every other year is pretty dopey even for him.
My least favorite debate so far. WEAK. This is the second time FOX has done a terrible job.
There's time left, maybe it'll get better.
TSA groped a wide receiver for the Chicago Bears on Wednesday. Their goose is cooked.
TSA groped a wide receiver for the Chicago Bears on Wednesday.
Did the wide receiver then proceed to fumble his luggage?
Fox News is in the tank for Romney and hates Newt.
You're kidding, right? If debate time is the judge, you'd have to say they are in the tank for Paul. Bachmann 2nd. On Fox, itself, it is all Newt, all the time by the hosts and shock when guests argue for Romney.
This is the worst debate.
Bachmann is extremely effective as an attack dog.
It's all Newt because they are bitching at him the entire time.
"He'd be a great candidate if only he hadn't worked in the Obama administration."
Working for someone doesn't mean anything, does it? I mean, what difference does it make? He does seem like a great candidate. He's the only Republican candidate I would look at seriously at this point. Well, I'll give Romney another chance.
Why would they pat somebody down who flies on chartered jets?
Great throat-ripping non-zany stuff from Gingrich on the pipeline. Force the vote on the pipeline.
Am watching the GOP debate with a hottie in Crystal City. Every time Newt says anything, she is excited. I hope the GOP goes for Newt. All. The. Way.
You know, GOP, I cannot see Romney. He is invisible. That is the right thing. We do not need him or his VP (Jindal may be). We just want to see Newt/Perry as the GOP ticket.
Why?
We want Obama/Biden to be victorious.
Ellen Barkin is also live (drunk?) blogging on Twitter
For those who thought that Gwen Ifill should not have moderated the V.P. debate back in 2008, what do you think about Chris Wallace moderating tonight's debate, in light of this footage?
Titus, you are right about Newt. Other candidates were asked about policy, and he was invited to defend himself from charges of being a dirty lying hypocrite.
We seem finally to be away from that horror show and into some better topics, especially energy.
He didn't fumble his luggage. Somebody intercepted a pass to his charitable foundation.
For those who thought that Gwen Ifill should not have moderated the V.P. debate back in 2008, what do you think about Chris Wallace moderating tonight's debate, in light of this footage?
That's Chris Wallace's opinion. Now, if he stands to gain financially from one person winning the Iowa caucus, by book sales or some other method — than that would be more disqualifying.
Newt is the King. We love Newt.
Perry is the V-POTUS. We love Perry.
GOP: Your mission is to support Newt/Perry.
Sell your house, car, empty your bank. Support this ticket.
Avoid Romney (or his VP, Jindal).
Mitt Romney is a fucking fake and liar.
Titus = America's Politico.
I still can't understand why Republicans, who advertise their support for smaller government intrusions into personal liberties, get so hung up on social issues. Abortion is a hot button topic but is ultimately a very difficult decision that should be made by the individuals involved based on their personal views, NOT by omnibus legislation!
"Abortion is a hot button topic but is ultimately a very difficult decision that should be made by the individuals involved based on their personal views, NOT by omnibus legislation!"
Only a pro-abortion person would say this. If abortion is murder, then a person's personal views don't matter. If a mother kills her 5-year-old because she no longer wanted him, would you agree that it was her personal choice, it should be legal?
Mary Beth said...
Perry brought up the part-time Congress in the last debate. It's one of the few things that I remember anyone saying that I liked. Can you run a campaign on ideas that would be almost impossible to implement?
It's how DC ran before AC.
He also said he wanted to privatize the TSA and criminalize security groping. I would enjoy watching that but I doubt he would have an easy time shutting down a large government agency no matter how unpopular they are.
Especially since they're so bad at it. Any private company could do a better job than TSA.
How many times have they missed stuff the auditors have tried to slip through?
Chris Althouse Cohen said...
Bachmann is extremely effective as an attack dog.
Christie's already auditioned for Milton as his Veep. I suppose Mrs Bachmann's doing the same for Perry.
Rick Santorum is asked why he's doing so badly when he's spent more time in Iowa than any of the other candidates. "I'm counting on the people of Iowa to catch fire for me." He says he presents a "clear contrast" with the others because he's been a consistent conservative. If that's so clear, yet he's going nowhere, doesn't that imply that hardcore conservatism isn't the voters' top priority?
I've been considering Santorum, and his problem is the same as Cain's and (now) Perry's - gravitas.
He ain't got it.
mettle said...
"Abortion is a hot button topic but is ultimately a very difficult decision that should be made by the individuals involved based on their personal views, NOT by omnibus legislation!"
Shooting up a shopping mall is a hot button topic but is ultimately a very difficult decision that should be made by the individuals involved based on their personal views, NOT by omnibus legislation!
A total lack of empathy, an inability to comprehend any views but one's own, is a textbook telltale of sociopath.
"9:48: I'd like to see all of them with false eyelashes."
Funny!
Romney will make an excellent president.
If a mother kills her 5-year-old because she no longer wanted him
I'd like to see someone campaign for legalizing post-natal abortions. It would restore parental authority and reduce the number of unruly, obnoxious children, possibly without actually reducing their number, because parents would be more inclined to have more if they aren't bratty, and there's a remedy for a hopeless case.
I think the Republican candidate should definitely campaign on making all abortion illegal.
That's such a winning strategy!
Time and time again, Republicans nominate candidates who say they will get rid of abortion...and they never do! But sure -- they'll take your campaign contributions and votes.
Suckers.
Huntsman looks like Mr. Magoo and, like Romney, will say or do anything out of desperation - they're not Men but modern facsimiles.
The problem with all of the candidates, Obama included, is they are a reflection of the post-Baby Boomer era at this time:
None of them can articulate anything that approaches true American character.
They've all either compromised their values, or failed to be tested, in such a way that brings respect. How can that happen when you're 50 or over? Lack of true character.
Santorum looks like he's never been in so much as a fist fight. Gingrich has no ethics, and so on.
I don't know who's going to get the nomination, but this election has two clear themes coming:
Get rid of Obama and hold your nose.
The shame is overwhelming.
And yes - the fault of the Boomers - for destroying meaning in civic life.
I'd like to see all of them with false eyelashes.
That's exactly my point.
Frankly, I think working for Obama could have been a fantastic opener for Huntsman, if he'd made his campaign all about sorrow-anger at seeing Obama's cack-handed mismanagement of foreign policy first hand and wanting to step up and spare the country four more years of that.
Instead, very, very early, the perception developed that he was embarassed to be a Republican, embarassed to be associated with conservatism, and he didn't move forcefully enough (or at all?) to counteract that.
I think Lord Salisbury was the last politician to rise to supreme power largely thanks to the votes of voters whom he transparently despised. And Huntsman is no Salisbury.
MadisonMan, that seems to be the grand strategy.
Newt did a good job of staying in character as the Good Jovial Newt.
Ron Paul was as mentally ill as I have ever seen a candidate.
Romney handled himself well. When the subject of Bain Capital making money came up, he actually showed some real emotion. There is something that excites him.
And Julio Jones made some really spectacular catches...switching back and forth missed some debate, but I was able to mainly tune out Santorum and Bachmann.
Huntsman ran against the base. I can't figure out why either. Maybe he's running for Secretary of State.
Here's my two bits:
Iowa: Ron Paul
New Hampshire: Huntsman eats into Romney, but Romney wins
South Carolina & Florida: Gingrich.
I never thought I'd say this, but Gingrich could win the nomination.
Romney will make a great Brylcream commercial.
BTW, he has private sector experience. I know because he drones on bloodlessly about it every time he's asked a question.
It's not so much that he's worked for Obama, it's that Huntsman is generally an insipid speaker whose applause lines are talk show host's about Republicans being anti-science, bigoted, over controlling cretins. Since all those things are true, you'd think they would be wildly enthusiastic about him.
Gingrich also worked for the Democrats, i.e. Freddie's Fannie and if he thinks they hired him for his expertise from Habitat for Humanity or it wasn't a political payoff, he really is grandiose. Admitting a mistake would be better.
Crack... How are you doing?
I generally agree with you views, but Newt is an old Traditionalist, not a Boomer. And Newt has ethics...several sets of ethics to be used when and as needed.
But politics, with or without perfect ethics, has been our substitute for Wars of Succession, and that has worked well.
I say Crack MC should run for office. The radical center-right (Althouse Heads) would support him. Meade could do the low budget but quirky commercials (see the new Old Milwaukee ads).
Romney, the ex governor from Massachusetts, basically has changed his mind on every major issue....but that's ok.
Of course LawnBoy likes him.
i don't have a dog in this hunt. i read this blog because it is interesting. i have only commented a few times because the tone is so angry. i never really analyzed the anger. i just saw it.
there is a post in the complaint thread by a ndspinelli. he pleaded with ms. althouse to delete a comment he had made. he says he deleted it right after it was made but it is now posted by meade. it is a desperate plea and it has been ignored. i wrote saying that i worked in mental health and this should be taken seriously. you do not fool around with this kind of thing. that has been ignored also. you need to take a very close look at ann althouse and determine if she should be a blogger. she has intellect for sure. but she has no conscience that i can see.
I'd like to see all of them with false eyelashes
The mascara, hair dye, and fake tan aren't enough for you? I'm just glad they're not having their lips puffed up like half the chicks in Hollywood.
I don't have a problem with the Meadehouse Full Monica being applied to Mittens 24/7, but the incessant sliming of The Speaker has me wondering for the first time since the beginning if I don't perhaps spend too much time hanging out here.
There are no boundaries to the ugliness. I have not seen that before by the hosts, only in the comments.
Fox liked Bachmann in post-debate commentary but she again, like Santorum - are the yipping attack dogs. Little attack dogs. Too much time given them. Hope they leave the contest after NH.
Thought Newt did well but with one big exception - he has no real defense against being a Beltway Bandit. Who is part of the whole big revolving door scam, who enriched himself to nearly 100 million dollars staying around 14 years after leaving the Speakership and engaging in influence peddling. His defense that he isn't "technically" a lobbyist isn't flying. Fine moment talking about the Wyden/Ryan plan and how a suggested Romney compromise factors in. I think he knows he will not get the nomination, but he and Callista will get a lot more money by casting himself as a warm, generous Newt on Free TV for marketing purposes.
Romney - solid and Presidential. At his best in talking about leading America to where it needs to go and why Obama has been a poor leader he can replace to all American's benefit.
Ron Paul is Ron Paul. I like him. I don't want him in the Oval Office.
Rick Perry - "Awww, shucks folks! I know I'm second tier now and I'll just enjoy myself. The stress is off!"
Huntsman - OK but Chinacentric. Only America and China will "count" in the 21st Century? Wrong.
I'm on board for a "Draft Steve Largent" movement. Who's with me?
(Largent's key selling point is that he got on Newt's wrong side for the right reasons.)
i read this blog because it is interesting...
you need to take a very close look at ann althouse and determine if she should be a blogger
Hilarious.
Meade said...
"Romney will make an excellent president.
He'll make an adequate president and that's good enough.
MadisonMan said...
"I think the Republican candidate should definitely campaign on making all abortion illegal. That's such a winning strategy! Time and time again, Republicans nominate candidates who say they will get rid of abortion...and they never do! But sure -- they'll take your campaign contributions and votes. Suckers."
As you well know, however, it's not that simple. Until the Supreme Court repudiates Roe-Casey, there's not a lot that Presidents can do about abortion. All they can do is slowly try to change the Supreme Court. Sometimes they goof up (so to speak—I think Justice Souter was a fine judge, just wrong on some important points), but that doesn't mean that they aren't doing what they can.
Beta Rube - A good chunk of the country, that now has approval ratings of Congress down at 8%, thinks a substantial part of the problem is Insiders from both Parties that come to DC to "do good" for themselves vs do good for the nation. Whores that can be bought.
Many believe Newt is part of that crowd that sold us out to the jobs exporters, Fannie and Freddie, the "entitlements" special interests groups, the defense contractor cabal, the illegal immigration lobby, the unions, AIPAC - or anyone else waving dollars at them.
Tg,
Crack... How are you doing?
Alright, but going up and down. Spreading holiday cheer during the day, but thinking too much at night, when I'd usually be composing. Politics, with or without perfect ethics, has been our substitute for Wars of Succession, and that has worked well.
Yeah, but for how long? We can't afford more of this. The recession is good for centering us, but doesn't leave a lot of room for error - and we're now too well-practiced at A) bullshitting ourselves, and B) letting things go until something or someone breaks or dies.
I'm worried this opportunity will slip away.
Chuck66,
I say Crack MC should run for office. The radical center-right (Althouse Heads) would support him. Meade could do the low budget but quirky commercials (see the new Old Milwaukee ads).
Shhh! If ScottM sees that he'll be all over me for being unworthy - and not being humble - making Meade's job all the harder.
But thanks,...
Christopher Hitchens died.
In my experience the comments and posts at Althouse Blog are very mild compared to the rest of the Blogusphere where angry condemnations based on irrational fears are the rule, and good humor is MIA.
The opinions here seldom seem angry and are never irrational, although a few condemnation experts show off sometimes towards other commenters. But Meade now handles them gently on the complaints page.
Crack, you got my vote.
Who decides if Althouse should be a blogger? That's what I want to know.
Titus,
Christopher Hitchens died.
Fucking fuck shit.
Now I'm crying. It's got to stop,...
At least he didn't fold,...My man.
Newt is 68 years old and he has been many thing sin his life.He was an insider at one time, and he did more for conservatism on the inside than Mitt or anyone else on that stage has dome from any position.
He engineered the turn over of the house during a Democratic presidency. This was just about impossible, but he took on the Old Guard and won.
The day after the House went Repub, Rush opened his show with the phrase "America The Way It Ought To Be." Mitt could not have pulled off a seminal feat like this in a million years. It was a bold move in difficult times.
Newt is obviously flawed, but on that stage tonight he was an historical figure surrounded by decent but small men.
I’m not the first to say tonight that Romney looked presidential, but he did: Extremely solid performance by him. He also looked surprisingly comfortable under attack, which is a notable improvement over the previous two debates.
We’re looking forward to a quietly dignified and successful Romney presidency.
Rube -- Gingrich cannot win the general election. Get it through your head.
Oh, I forgot to add, we came up with both “smarmy” and “smug” when trying to identify what it was about Huntsman that we found so unappealing. That’s probably unfair, but I think it is true that he has little to offer that isn’t better represented by Romney.
…unless we’re completely missing something.
You always hope but statistics are brutal. RIP Christopher Hitchens.
Perry and Huntsman: provincial appeal but not so much beyond their state lines.
Hitch: The Greatest Atheist That's Ever Lived (1949-2011)
Well put The Crack Emcee. All you other fuckers click that link. Hitch will be missed.
Damn, that guy could write.
What's the chance that there will ever be a true debate over what republicanism means, in these modern ages in the USA? I think the chance is almost none, alas, especially since "republican" (l.c. and u.c.) is now a foul word and concept pretty much back and forth across the political board. Even conservatives despise the very idea and concept. So sad.
So, it's over, is that it? Is the very philosophy of a republic dead?
I can't help wondering, and so I do wonder.
rcommal,
What's the chance that there will ever be a true debate over what republicanism means, in these modern ages in the USA? I think the chance is almost none, alas, especially since "republican" (l.c. and u.c.) is now a foul word and concept pretty much back and forth across the political board. Even conservatives despise the very idea and concept. So sad.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm proud to be a Republican and I know exactly what it means.
Care to explain what YOU mean?
Christopher Hitchens will be remembered as a Communist ... and that is the way it is after life.
Jeebus! Why all these debates? Isn't it clear by now to individual Republican voters who their choice is? (I hardly think they're going to be drawing many non-Republican voters, so it's really their party. I'm not voting for Obama, but I wouldn't vote for one of these aspirants on a bet!)
Isn't it equally as clear that none of the Republican candidates is worthy of getting into even the waiting foyer of the White House, much less into the Oval Office?
Well, maybe Huntsman could be...not that I know much about him, other than that he seems the least temperamentally--or willfully--crazy or ignorant, and that he likes Captain Beefheart...in short, he seems like the sort of rational conservative that used to be common in national politics, not the foaming-mouthed John Birchers and religious fanatics (or pretend religous fanatics) who have taken over the party today. But then, not knowing much about him, perhaps he has many negative qualities that I'm unaware of. For Republican voters, it seems his very rationality is his primary negative attribute.
I agree with Meade, smarmdog.
Rick Santorum, thanks for playing, we have a lovely parting gift for you on your way out.
The more I see of him the more I wonder how he got to be a Senator in the first place.
MadisonMan said...
I think the Republican candidate should definitely campaign on making all abortion illegal.
That's such a winning strategy!
Time and time again, Republicans nominate candidates who say they will get rid of abortion...and they never do! But sure -- they'll take your campaign contributions and votes.
Suckers.
No. Just end taxpayer funding for abortions. Amung some inner city groups it is the preferred method of birth control. So Margret Sanger gets her wish in the end.The states are free to attend to it their own way. Why are we subsidizing other peoples bad behavior.
@ Cedarford
Huntsman has the good sense to be running for Secretary of State now. His suggestion about China, inviting the dissident to the White House, is the best idea I've seen in the debates. Romney covered his KKK flank with his ant-immigrant demagoguery, but, now that Gingrich has cleared it, I understand he has moved over. Nice strategic move. I wonder if he can do that on his promise of punitive tariffs on China? Newt can maybe give back, become secretary of Commerce in a Romney administration; looks like he'd enjoy the White House dinners.
Huntsman displays too many of the same personality traits that Obama has that have worn thin on the public: the smuggness, arms length from people contact, elitist trying to sound streetist by using terminology that just doesn't match the person looks like trying too hard...a few years ago these things would have been ok. Today, draws to close a gut reaction to him and gives you that smarmdog feeling.
Sunny J, said perfectly.
Ron Paul just proves that he's a sheepish coward isolationist nut job. You supporters of his just keep rabidly supporting him okay?
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