Here's the Metafilter discussion, where one commenter says "I'm ambivalent about this in that there is a part of me that doesn't want to feel any sympathy for her at all... [b]ut there's a tinge of pitchforkery (jumped on by the usually deeply racist media) that gives me huge pause for thought" and links to this aggregration of Tweets:
[O]n Twitter, the righteous have massed. The Twitter Hunters are in favour of shooting the mother and leaving her child possibly orphaned. Some order a hit. Others want her to be sent to Africa where intolerant blacks will judge her. Others want “the slag” raped. Intolerance will not be tolerated.
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58 comments:
That poor, cute, little boy is starting w/ an 0 and 2 count on him. Hopefully he can recover from being in that hole and succeed. That's all I take from this. When I would see kids visiting their shithead fathers[not all of them were shitheads] in prison my heart would bleed for them.
Well, the beer in the UK is obviously still effective.
This is just what rednecks do, people.
Get over yourselves.
Was she arrested for saying "racist" things or for cussing/yelling around children? I suspect the police reports list the latter but it's actually the former.
A woman who is probably mentally ill ranting and swearing on a tram.
A child who seems to belong to this apparently mentally ill woman.
What should we do about it?
Not the best mothering in the world antagonizing a crowd like that. Stupid at the very least.
Lots of anger and frustration there no doubt shared by many native Brits as they see their country changing around them and not for the better. The perfect example of which is her being arrested for voicing her opinion, hateful though it is. England is going downhill fast.
I would support a possible arrest on disturbing the peace-level charges, but I too, suspect the content is seen as more unlawful than the outburst itself.
"Was she arrested for saying "racist" things or for cussing/yelling around children? I suspect the police reports list the latter but it's actually the former."
Actually the British police have no problem arresting people for "racism." Happens quite often, even for perceived instances. I recall one recent story when a couple passed a pub and found the music racist although it was anything but. The owner got arrested I believe.
Lots of anger and frustration there no doubt shared by many native Brits as they see their country changing around them
John Cleese not the least among them. He moved away from London saying it no longer feels like a British city.
It was very brave of her to speak her mind in the fascist society which is modern Britain, populated by hateful racists who call themselves "progressives", "anti-racists" and other silly, self-aggrandizing names. The psychological projection of their hatred onto other people is a wonder to see.
I guess this opens up another topic - what did she say that was "racist"? Was her assertion that black/brown/Polish people should go back where they came from "racist"? Was her assertion that black/brown/Polish people aren't English "racist"?
Is "racism" still defined as a belief that one race is superior/inferior to another or has the definition of "racism" been expanded? Is the admonition to go back where they came from racist because it implies that black/brown/Polish people aren't good enough to be English?
"John Cleese not the least among them. He moved away from London saying it no longer feels like a British city."
I had two friends visit London this past summer and that was their observation. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just that it appears to be the case.
Although on second thought, if true, I find it sad that the traditional British culture may be dying. Probably is dying.
"Is "racism" still defined as a belief that one race is superior/inferior to another or has the definition of "racism" been expanded?"
Of course it has been expanded. It's now anything the left wants it to be.
Well, to be fair, the Right used the go back where you came from is racist argument against Helen Thomas...
"A woman who is probably mentally ill ranting and swearing on a tram."
What suggests to you she may be mentally ill? This sort of obstreperous ranting is not at all uncommon on public transportion in New York City...I am not surprised to see similar clamor on the London transit. The woman simply feels no inhibition against expressing openly what many think privately.
Social media (indeed all media) can quickly become a lynch mob. It happens all the time. It's always a good thing when someone notices that.
"Well, to be fair, the Right used the go back where you came from is racist argument against Helen Thomas..."
Wasn't that anti-Semitic, not racist? I get so confused sometimes . . .
British culture is not dying. It's changing. This influx is a direct consequence of the Empire and the immigration laws that the Empire fostered. When I was in London in the 60's and 70's there was already a strong visible and influential element from the Indian subcontinent. Britain will survive. Indeed the immigration in the long run will be a positive, just as it is in the USA.
What suggests to you she may be mentally ill? This sort of obstreperous ranting is not at all uncommon on public transportion in New York City.
The gold standard for public and mental health ... the NYC transportation system.
Thing is, the Limeys did it to themselves. They were warned, they didn't want to listen. Now they have to live with it.
Another way we can learn from the Euros.
This thread is disheartening. Yes, there are many issues here involving immigration, culture, political correctness, etc. However, many people here who ranted, justifiably so as did I, about how Jerry Sandusky flourished, are now having no empathy for that little boy just trying to diffuse the situation by showing his toy. He almost assuredly deals w/ this all the time and is already showing signs of an emotionally abused child, trying to help his mom. My heart breaks for the kid.
Can someone show some empathy.."Bueller..Bueller..Bueller."
Of course we do not see what might have ignited the rant.
Destroyed by diversity and the dole - the people formerly known as English.
It is not an indication of mental illness to feel entitled to express one's opinions publicly and vocally, no matter how objectionable to prevailing standards of "polite" conduct.
One might very well disdain someone's opinions--or their manner or choice of place in expressing them--without seeing such impropriety as indicative of disordered thinking.
Michael said...
Of course we do not see what might have ignited the rant.
------Feeling like an alien in your own country might do it.
She was Occupying The Tram! That should be her defense.
------Feeling like an alien in your own country might do it.
Well, honestly, if she thinks she's an alien, she might actually be crazy.
I live in NYC and used to travel by subway. Subway rants are as inevitable as tornados in Kansas. For that reason I always travelled with a Walkman and a book to read. Don't listen and never make eye contact....The woman's a jerk, and I feel sorry for her son. But she's a woman with a child in her lap. There's no implied physical threat in her ravings. In many of the rants I pretended to ignore, I was alert for any sudden movements. I would not find it a difficult challenge to tune her out.
It is not an indication of mental illness to feel entitled to express one's opinions publicly and vocally...
Out loud. To yourself. With the angry f-bombs flying from your mouth constantly. With a four-year old on your lap.
Why should anyone think this might be a person with a disordered mind?
I think a lot of people actually believe your ideological views are what determines your state of mental health.
If you believe as I do, you are undoubtedly sound, no matter how you act out.
If you believe as they do, you are probably mentally ill.
"Out loud. To yourself. With the angry f-bombs flying from your mouth constantly. With a four-year old on your lap.
"Why should anyone think this might be a person with a disordered mind?"
She wasn't talking to herself...she was ranting about and at the people around her.
I take it you don't live in a big metropolitan area where public transit is the primary means of conveyance for many, if you think this suggests mental illness.
Do her words qualify under our law as "fighting" words, and, therefore, regulated and even criminalized (misdemeanor?)? Just wondering.
Also, I wonder if she was a supporter, if not a participant, in the riots last summer?
I didn't know a racist rant can get you arrested. is that right? I mean, is it right - as in the correct thing to do?
I can see an asskicking delivered by somebody, but arrest?
Seems over-the-top to me,...I know there are better things for the authorities to do,...
A person ranting about and at the people around her who are minding their own business. Not just ranting, but f-bomb ranting. With a very small child in tow.
You insist that I'm wrong in thinking that's probably indicative of a mental illness.
You seem to insist that that should be seen as healthy behavior just because it's on public transportation in big cities.
Are you arguing this for the sake of arguing?
I actually witnessed up close a racist rant from a white European (new Europe ain't old white Europe) on a train travelling through Monaco.
A French or Italian man got on with his son and the son's family. Two African guys got on as well. I think traveling home from work. One of the African guys sat down across from me. The train was crowded and people were having to stand. I had been on the train since somewhere in Italy, sitting next to a Canadian philosophy student traveling the same route I was.
The other African man at some point was confronted by the older gentleman who quickly became irate and was embarrassingly yelling at the African man over a seat.
Europe's ethnic/race problem is deeper than America's issues with race in a lot of ways. Its why Europe is a more racist place than America is today. There are not Barack Obama's in Europe. This is because European countries are almost all ethnocentric countries. They constructed upon the ethnicity of a single group. Germany is the land of the German folk. Great Britain is the land of the Brits. Norway is Norwegian. Denmark is Danish. African, Arab, Asian or whatever... won't ever be German,, British, Norwegian or Danish. Whereas America is based upon a place and the people who make it up, no matter what ethnicity. In America it is "we the people", and not "we the German people".
This makes racial integration more challenging in Europe. Great Britain has been successful (I think) at it I think, and British is a less specific ethnocentric label than English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish. Being British encompasses more than just the native ethnic makeup of the British Isles. Being English though, maybe less so.
The French Republic ideologically allows for France to encompasses more than the ethnically native French people. France seems to be more about being a culture than a ethnocentric people... even if they are an ethnocentric people. That said, the French still have their race problems, but it is more cultural than racial.
That said, I don't agree with the woman, but don't think she should have been arrested. Words or just words, and people are free to not like other people.
I wonder if a Muslim ranting publicly about Jooos would attract any attention from the Law.
"British culture is not dying. It's changing. This influx is a direct consequence of the Empire and the immigration laws that the Empire fostered. When I was in London in the 60's and 70's there was already a strong visible and influential element from the Indian subcontinent. Britain will survive. Indeed the immigration in the long run will be a positive, just as it is in the USA."
Slow, controlled immigration has indeed been a positive to the USA. This is because the immigrant cultures were able to slowly assimilate into the dominant culture, changing both for the better.
This is NOT happening in Britain. Immigrants are flowing in at too fast a rate and they are not even trying to assimlate with the traditional British culture. The fact that Sharia law is being used in many Muslim areas instead of British law is just one scary example.
The fact that Sharia law is being used in many Muslim areas instead of British law is just one scary example.
This is the canary in a coal mine for anyone with any historical context whatsoever.
The funniest smackdown of a racist I have ever seen was delivered by Natalie Tran, an Australian who posts on YouTube as "communitychannel." Here she responds to a commenter who told her to get out because "YOUR NOT AUSTRALIAN."
David - When I was in London in the 60's and 70's there was already a strong visible and influential element from the Indian subcontinent. Britain will survive. Indeed the immigration in the long run will be a positive, just as it is in the USA.
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It depends. Ask the Native Americans how mass immigration and "blessed diversity!" worked out for them. Or the natives of Taiwan and Tibet swamped by Han arrivals. The present high breeding rate challenge that Muslims now pose to the demographics and sustainability of traditional white Europe and Russia. And Palestine.
Studies are also showing that immigration does degrade the tranquility and coherence of mono-ethnnic, high trust cultures - giving rise to loss of trust, harmony, and causing higher crime (not just in the immigrant populations, but higher native crime)
Multi-Kulti is a failure.
"Pure ethnic" Asian nations now think they were right to keep their nations pure.
"You seem to insist that that should be seen as healthy behavior just because it's on public transportation in big cities."
I don't "insist"--or even suggest--this is "healthy" behavior; I simply dispute your idea that such behavior indicates mental illness.
The woman is being rude and provocative and hateful...but this is hardly so outrageous--or uncommon--as to suggest she is ill.
Crack. As i understand, the UK has hate speech laws that are more rigorously enforced than, say, laws against burglary.
That poor kid. He hasn't got a chance.
Oh, I don't know, Nancy. David Horowitz turned out pretty well, all things considered re his parents.
"Oh, I don't know, Nancy. David Horowitz turned out pretty well, all things considered re his parents."
Snark, or serious?
If serious, then you have a twisted idea of what "turning out pretty well" looks like.
Large-scale immigration does tend to negatively effect social harmony and order. However it does tend to positively effect economic dynamism. So, there is a trade-off. In the United States, we have tended to favor economic dynamism over social harmony, under the assumption that economic growth can paper over a lot of social discord. However, a lot of that dynamism took place in a much more loosely regulated economic environment.
Thanks, Nancy. Many here are just doing different versions of the ranting mom and, like her, ignoring the poor kid.
Twitter lets people show that they're really barely any different from her, while feeling superior.
Noted.
You might think that someday people would learn that calling for murder for being a bigot is worse than being a bigot that isn't calling for murder, but you'd be wrong.
(More importantly, what was she arrested for?
A "racially aggravated public order offence"?
Fuck Britain, is all I can say.
Racism is bullshit - but even more so is arresting people for talking, even racist talking.
If it had been incitement to a felony, that'd be one thing. But it wasn't.
She should have every right to reveal herself as a dysfunctional bigot without being arrested for the fact of bigotry.
If they had a content-neutral arrest scheme for "people being really bloody annoying in public", that'd be one thing.
But that's not what they charged her with, is it?
The fact that "racial aggravation" is part of the charge earns Britain a great big free-speech fuck you.)
OMFG. Why I hate Europe sometimes. They need to get over themselves.
How is she wrong? She said absolutely nothing racist from what I heard. Bigoted, oh clearly, but racist? Hardly. The shame is that she's doing it with her child in her lap, but then again what do you expect from the lower class of the once great Britannia. They have completely fallen into the multi-culti quagmire with no way out of it.
The goal of the Labour Party to make the British a minority in their own nation is working out quite well. I believe the projection is Whites becoming a minority in Great Britain before 2050.
People participating in the recent riots were from 44 different nations and the most overrepresented were the immigrants from the West Indies or Caribbean.
I believe the Danish and Finnish are the only people in Europe interested in preserving their ethnic and cultural heritage.
"It’s This Bad"
The Twitter feed about what all those compassionate lefties want to do to her is astounding.
So, it's Don't Be A H8R...unless you H8 the other side.
And... how does Britain respond to the daily harassment even violence against non-Muslims by disturbingly large segments of the Muslim community there?
It's like (fellow Cornellian) Ying Ma and her book on growing up Chinese in California. The constant abuse against Asians - and don't you *dare* say anything back to the people who are harassing you!
I'm not anti-Muslim, nor should anyone approve of this public rant. But what frosts my mug is when people ignore, tolerate, or *excuse* this sort of behavior (and often worse - this person after all is using words not fists or knives) and only get their dander up when it's a single powerless white person.
The Left's selective outrage is truly breathtaking.
I wonder if this woman could seek political asylum in the U.S. While her actions are deplorable, they are legal in the U.S. Her arrest is political persecution against free speech.
No government has any business arresting someone for an angry public rant.
At least she seems to be an equal opportunity offender. It reminded me of one of the saltier Monty Python sketches, where a guy visits a travel agent and launches into a string of ethnic slurs about every kind of stupid tourist he can't stand.
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