Althouse: "There is no way for us, as militiamen, to save this country, to save Georgia, without doing something that’s highly, highly illegal: murder."

November 2, 2011

"There is no way for us, as militiamen, to save this country, to save Georgia, without doing something that’s highly, highly illegal: murder."

4 old men in Georgia, with " a plot to use guns, bombs and the toxin ricin to kill federal and state officials and spread terror."

"When it comes time to saving the Constitution, that means some people have got to die," Frederick Thomas, 73, allegedly said.

ADDED: Made me think of this:

62 comments:

Anonymous said...: Dreadful. Glad that they caught them (I wish the article had more details about how they did) and glad that they're talking.; 11/2/11, 9:41 PM
cubanbob said...: WTF? The article reads like it was describing some weird, whacked version of Space Cowboys. The article doesn't make it clear whether the old boys actually had any ability to do what they were talking about.; 11/2/11, 9:44 PM
Wince said...: "When it comes time to saving the Constitution, that means some people have got to die."

Isn't that the evolving rationale behind Obamacare?

The Georgia seniors meeting at Waffle House who were recently apprehended by the FBI for allegedly plotting to kill millions of Americans to save the Constitution also seem to have had a literary influence: Mike Vanderboegh, and his novel, Absolved.

Can't I just eat my waffle?; 11/2/11, 9:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Nothing more dangerous than geriatric terrorists.; 11/2/11, 9:45 PM
rcommal said...: There's no dishonor in being able and willing to recognize more than one sort of threat at the same time.

Also, "loose talk" has more than one meaning (hell, more than two meanings), and well it would be to recognize that.; 11/2/11, 9:46 PM
Sorun said...: Have you ever seen those old men sitting together at the diner every morning, talking and laughing over coffee. It's now a little suspicious.; 11/2/11, 9:47 PM
caplight said...: I had a friend, now deceased, (in case we're being monitored), to whom I always said, "Buddy when it all goes down I either want to be in your basement or five miles away but nowhere in between.; 11/2/11, 9:50 PM
Methadras said...: Armed revolution in this country is impossible at this current state of technological ingress of every aspect of your life by government.; 11/2/11, 9:50 PM
Paul said...: When it comes time to saving the Constitution, that means some people have got to die,"

And they are 'it'!

Stupid old men.

Look, I don't like BHO or his policies but the country will weather him just as we did Jimmy Carter.

What I don't want is the country to fall apart because of assassinations, coups, civil war, and the like. That is how Rome fell. That is how South America became known as a bunch of banana republics.

Yes the four old men will go to prison and justly so.; 11/2/11, 9:51 PM
David said...: Destroying their ideals in order to save them.; 11/2/11, 9:53 PM
Chef Mojo said...: This is hilarious! A bunch of old guys mouthing off in a Waffle House. Sooo much more important than Islamists plotting to kill us.

Is this the best that bull dyke Napolitano can do?

Scattered, smothered and covered, baby!; 11/2/11, 9:56 PM
rcommal said...: Nothing more dangerous than geriatric terrorists.

Because, of course, people of terrorist mind in their 40s and 50s never get 20-odd years older and even if they do, no one younger than they find them inspirational.

What B.S.

(And that's just the way in which they're very dangerous even if they AREN'T engaging actively, which it seems, so far [and so far as we can know] these guys actually were.)

Pffah; Pshhh; Pfuie: all of that to the "old boys, geriatric, never mind" comments on this thread so far. History knowledge, much? *As if* old means either benign or incapable, much less neither both. To repeat: B.S.; 11/2/11, 10:00 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: “While many are focused on the threat posed by international violent extremists, this case demonstrates that we must also remain vigilant in protecting our country from citizens within our own borders who threaten our safety and security.”

Every other abomination is A-O.K, but, by golly, we're on top of this angry old fart thing.

Swell.; 11/2/11, 10:04 PM
John henry said...: Has anyone here even been in a Waffle House? Not a waffle house but a restaurant of the Waffle House chain?

I love them. When I am near one I love to go in and have their hash browns, smothered and covered, with 3-4 eggs over easy on top.

(Yum, yum. I am getting hungry thinking about them)

But as a place to plot something?

Please.

I can't imagine a place with less privacy than the typical Waffle House layout.

John Henry; 11/2/11, 10:05 PM
MadisonMan said...: I don't think ricin is going to kill you unless you ingest it, although I may be mistaken.

Certainly when Tuppence Beresford solved the ricin-based murder, it had been injected.; 11/2/11, 10:05 PM
rcommal said...: Who knew! Retired guys gathering together, especially at eating places it appears, are by definition ineffectual and incapable sorts, "past it," and so forth. Pay no attention to those oldsters at all because, you know, they're old and without resources or influence. Pray tell, is this a rule across the board, with regard to all things? It would be good know if this is the assumption and expectation, and in a great many, different ways.; 11/2/11, 10:08 PM
Anonymous said...: Mick!; 11/2/11, 10:14 PM
garage mahal said...: Thank GOD this wasn't an uncorroborated, anonymously sourced, 2nd hand account of some left wing (!)homeless dude jacking off behind a dumpster. That would be dangerous!; 11/2/11, 10:14 PM
somefeller said...: It's like the movie "Grumpy Old Men". Only much grumpier.; 11/2/11, 10:16 PM
rcommal said...: Old people ought to be treated more gently, across the board, on account of age and how it automatically makes them less threatening because, due to the same things, they're incapable and ineffectual, by definition, I guess. They can't do things, therefore, and so we should not be concerned and ought automatically dismiss and even ridicule any intimation that they can.; 11/2/11, 10:21 PM
Titus said...: We don't have Waffle House's in Mass.

I kind of wish we did.; 11/2/11, 10:22 PM
rcommal said...: What's the age cutoff for holding elective office again? Including the presidency, for example?; 11/2/11, 10:22 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: I've been looking for something to do in retirement.; 11/2/11, 10:23 PM
edutcher said...: Lessee..., middle 60s, so they're of the age where they might have served in 'Nam.

Or been confreres of Ayers, Dohrn, Rap Brown, and Diana Oughton.

Thing is, at that age, they might be a lot more serious than the twits Occupying Themselves.; 11/2/11, 10:23 PM
garage mahal said...: Is it too soon to call these guys Tea Party Terrorists?

Just asking!; 11/2/11, 10:25 PM
rcommal said...: Mick!

Mick, who?; 11/2/11, 10:27 PM
Titus said...: We don't have Bob Evans either.

We don't have hardly any fast food places.; 11/2/11, 10:28 PM
Titus said...: Our breaky places serve "brunch".

Try finding breakfast around here.; 11/2/11, 10:29 PM
DADvocate said...: Devil went down to Georgia. Lookin' for a soul to steal. Got more than one.

Whack jobs everywhere. Thank God, they were caught.; 11/2/11, 10:35 PM
DADvocate said...: I see garage is still crying about getting caught whacking off in the park.; 11/2/11, 10:39 PM
ic said...: Gun control.

First they sold guns to federal agents to send to the Mexican drug lords, we said nothing; then four old militiamen wanted to murder to save the Constitution,...

Btw, who else wanted to save the Constitution? Wink, wink: those who marched with the yellow snake flag, that's who. Insinuation by extrapolations, anyone?; 11/2/11, 10:40 PM
Anonymous said...: Shouting, you could do some of that ragin' grandpa stuff, just get your band members together.; 11/2/11, 10:48 PM
traditionalguy said...: Some typical Scots-Irish men from the mountains around Toccoa. They are serious and they like fighting.

These are the type of men that chased down Ferguson's British Army of invasion at King's Mountain and gave them Tarleton's quarter until some officers calmed them down.

They only won the Revolutionary War that day on October 7, 1780, because they were serious and liked fighting.; 11/2/11, 10:52 PM
MadisonMan said...: Johnny resin up your bow
and play your fiddle hard
'Cause hell's broke loose in Georgia
and the Devil plays it hard

And if you win you get this shiny fiddle made of gold
But if you lose the devil takes your soul.

Thanks, DADvocate. That's stuck in my head now. Might as well go to bed.; 11/2/11, 10:58 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @John,

Absolutely right on your point about the layout of Waffle Houses making secrecy impossible.

Now, you could plot to take over the world in an IHOP...

If they had succeeded in making 10 lbs of ricin it's likely that they would have been their own first victims.; 11/2/11, 11:04 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: Shouting, you could do some of that ragin' grandpa stuff, just get your band members together.

Well, yes, part of the retirement plan is to get those Old Dogs out there sniffing around and howling.; 11/2/11, 11:20 PM
rcommal said...: Absolutely right on your point about the layout of Waffle Houses making secrecy impossible.

Absolute nonsense.

(To date, have racked up 40+ years since first eating at a Waffle House [older family says it's longer, but going with what is personally recalled].); 11/2/11, 11:25 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @rcommal,

Do you know of any other restaurant where about 50% or more of the tables immediately border the waitresses'/chefs' work area? Waffle Houses are designed so that the waitresses can service the clients without leaving the work area as much as possible. There may be one or two tables in each Waffle House where that isn't true, but one is always so close to the help that they can't help but overhear your conversation.

I can't believe you're disagreeing with this.; 11/3/11, 12:15 AM
jim said...: Surely this has nothing whatsoever to do with years on end of "he's not OUR President" or "watering the Tree Of Liberty with the blood of tyrants & patriots" or "I want my country back" or "Second Amendment remedies."

Just another random "isolated incident" ... as were the Amerithrax killings (at least once the likely perp was found to be a life-long hardcore conservative). As was the man trying to build a DIY dirty-bomb. As was the man arrested while putting pipe-bombs in mailboxes. As was the woman whose Minuteman-style group killed a family in cold blood execution-style for their unforgivable lack of American citizenship. As were many many others.

Gee - there sure are a hell of a lot of these tragic "isolated incidents" happening since 2008 for some mysterious reason.

What the liberal lamestream-media NYT left out: one of the men cited as his inspiration the online novel Absolved by Mike Vanderboegh, who FOX calls an "online journalist" during his appearances there.

Good to see the reference to "gun control" here (though I think it needs a dash of "false-flag" to really capture the cultural Zeitgeist at work) ... much like the NRA head's wise warning that the nefarious Obama is just softening all you naive Patriots up for his SECOND term so he can finally take all your guns away & get those FEMA camps running.; 11/3/11, 12:30 AM
rcommal said...: Young Hegelian:

It's easier to eavesdrop on--and much harder to tune out--three tables in fine dining or four or five in family style than the constant turn-over and din in a diner, including a Waffle House. Your intuition is "mis"-calibrated. Stop and think for a moment.

Also, have you ever waitressed (or waitered, I suppose) or been a short-order cook in a diner? I'm suspecting not. ; ); 11/3/11, 12:35 AM
Methadras said...: garage mahal said...

Thank GOD this wasn't an uncorroborated, anonymously sourced, 2nd hand account of some left wing (!)homeless dude jacking off behind a dumpster. That would be dangerous!

Everybody has already seen you douche. Some lady, I think it was your mother, come out screaming that you got something in her eye. Go figure.; 11/3/11, 1:03 AM
Eddie said...: People in the north Georgia mountains have been killing "revenuers" for years. I don't know whether the Constitution has always been invoked, however.; 11/3/11, 2:35 AM
AllenS said...: After reading the article, there doesn't seem to be much plotting going on. Can you go to jail for bluster? I've heard much worse talk in bars. Especially back when Bush was in charge.; 11/3/11, 5:55 AM
Almost Ali said...: I don't like it when the Starbuck's crowd casts aspersions on the Waffle House.; 11/3/11, 6:46 AM
ErnieG said...: Titus said...

We don't have Waffle House's in Mass.

I kind of wish we did.

But you make up for it by having a Dunkin' Donuts on every corner.; 11/3/11, 8:05 AM
Shanna said...: We don't have hardly any fast food places.

You have that friendlys place right? I was assured by my friend that it was good, but it actually sucked.

As for the plot, so far this sounds like all talk. Is there evidence they were actually going to do anything? It wasn't in the article.; 11/3/11, 8:16 AM
Firehand said...: An opinion from a guy some clowns are trying to blame for 'inspiring' this mess:
The men, according to court documents, had been discussing "covert" operations since at least March, considering murder, theft and the use of toxic agents like ricin to undermine state and federal government.

"What kind of moron uses the phrase 'save the Constitution' and then goes out to try and distribute ricin?" Vanderboegh said. "This has got to be the Alzheimer's gang. What political point is made there? I don't understand what was going on in the minds of these Georgia idiots."

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/11/fox-author-of-novel-cited-by-georgia.html; 11/3/11, 8:26 AM
Anonymous said...: The article doesn't make it clear whether the old boys actually had any ability to do what they were talking about.

Since when is that a prerequisite under the current climate? Remember the gang in Miami, encouraged by their FBI informant, who planned to blow up buildings in Chicago and didn't even have a way or funds to get there, let alone the training or materials to carry out their plot.; 11/3/11, 8:32 AM
machine said...: Thanks a lot Glenn beck...; 11/3/11, 8:42 AM
Calypso Facto said...: It seems a good portion of the anti-terrorist group work in the FBI is to now find gullible marks talking smack, give them a bunch of dangerous ideas, provide hardware (or in this case...beans) for those dangerous ideas, and then arrest the marks.

Oh, and then lobby for a bigger budget, because it's OBVIOUSLY wicked dangerous out there.; 11/3/11, 8:42 AM
steve w said...: My prediction is that this will turn out to be a mole hill turned into a mountain by the Obama admin that is desperate to link right wingers to terror plots for political purposes. I think the "evidence" will all turn out to be thin to nonexistent and I base this on:
The "facts" we know so far which are:

1.They were recorded speculating on which politicians they'd like to see dead. If that is a crime half the country will have to take turns keeping the other half in jail as we switch from Dem to Rep admins.
2. At least one had ricin. Castor beans in their natural state have traces of ricin. Commonly grown plant in the South and we know at least one of the men grew castor beans for mole control around his garden.
3. The feds ALWAYS try to sensationalize the charges against groups like this and if this is the best they have it ain't much.
4. Old guys who have raised families, had careers and retired are EXTREMELY unlikely terrorists.; 11/3/11, 8:57 AM
cubanbob said...: Freder Frederson said...
The article doesn't make it clear whether the old boys actually had any ability to do what they were talking about.

Since when is that a prerequisite under the current climate? Remember the gang in Miami, encouraged by their FBI informant, who planned to blow up buildings in Chicago and didn't even have a way or funds to get there, let alone the training or materials to carry out their plot.

11/3/11 8:32 AM

You have a point there. Gee when is Holder going to away to the Federal Super Max for selling guns to Mexican terrorists who killed American border guards and a few hundred Mexicans? And by the way, those old boys didn't actually kill anyone unlike Obama's buds Ayers and Dohrn, another couple of old communist terrorists.; 11/3/11, 9:05 AM
TosaGuy said...: "Our breaky places serve "brunch".

People will pay more for brunch than they will for breakfast, especially if bloody marys are involved.; 11/3/11, 9:30 AM
Titus said...: We do have a Dunkin Donut's on every corner, yes.

But it isn't the donuts people buy, it's the coffee.

My mom said a Dunky's is going to be in Waunakee, Wisconsin.

Madison had a Dunky's when I was growing up but it went out of business.

Friendly's filed for bankruptcy.; 11/3/11, 9:32 AM
ken in tx said...: They were caught because they tried to buy some explosives and a silencer from an FBI informant. This was in the Atlanta paper.; 11/3/11, 9:41 AM
Crimso said...: "Amerithrax killings"

Hey, Inspector, where did Ivins get weaponized anthrax? That's just one of the many questions left unanswered. But I guess since a sorority member figured it had to be Ivins, the FBI was able to piece together the puzzle. If you want to believe the "case" against Ivins go ahead, it was about as strong as that against Hatfill.; 11/3/11, 10:16 AM
Crimso said...: "Since when is that a prerequisite under the current climate? Remember the gang in Miami, encouraged by their FBI informant, who planned to blow up buildings in Chicago and didn't even have a way or funds to get there, let alone the training or materials to carry out their plot."

Agreed. OTOH, these guys could end up getting off on a technicality, go to graduate or law school, and then become education professors at UIC or law professors at Northwestern. It sounds far-fetched, but it has been known to happen. I hope you wouldn't see anything wrong with that chain of events.; 11/3/11, 10:21 AM
John henry said...: re Starbucks vs Waffle House:

I've already said how much I love dining at Waffle House.

I get dragged into a Starbucks 3-4 times a year and each time I detest it more.

It's supposed to be a coffe shop, right? So why is it so hard to get a decent cup of coffee in one?

I drink my coffee black. I don't need chemicals for hipster flavoring or coffee processed though some $5,000 machine. When I get plain black coffee in Starbucks it always tastes burned and bitter.

Dunkin Donuts has great coffee. You can get it two ways with caffeine or without. Only real choice is size.

Ditto Waffle House. Good coffee. Not even a choice about size. They just keep filling the cup until you make them stop.

At home, I have a K-Cup machine (which is Starbucks owned, alas) Best coffee I've ever had.

John Henry; 11/3/11, 12:11 PM
John henry said...: I am wondering how much there is to this.

First we hear about it, then nothing. If there was something to it, I would think we would be hearing it trumpeted as a homeland security success, justification for more money, and showing that terrorists are not Muslim.

Sort of like the big flap about the Iranian plot to kill the Saudi ambassador. Remember what else happened that day?

No?

Eric Holder got subpoenied. The Iran story pushed that out of the news.

Since then we have found that there doesn't seem to be much evidence to the story and what their is they have known about since June.

I am taking this whole thing with a big grain of salt.

John Henry; 11/3/11, 12:14 PM
jeff said...: "Is it too soon to call these guys Tea Party Terrorists?"

Probably, what with no history of violence from that group. But seems like there may be another group using violence in protesting things they dont like. What WAS that group called? It will come to me......

"Surely this has nothing whatsoever to do with years on end of "he's not OUR President" or "watering the Tree Of Liberty with the blood of tyrants & patriots" or "I want my country back" or "Second Amendment remedies.""

Beats me, man. But weird your timeline doesnt start until 2008. That completely negates all the hanging the president in effigy, the calls for assassination, the insults and name calling etc about that particular president. No doubt you just forgot.; 11/3/11, 1:09 PM
caplight said...: Titus
Friendly Ice Cream Reese's Peanut Butter Cup Sundae. Ever had one?; 11/3/11, 3:13 PM
AlanKH said...: al-Geeza?; 11/3/11, 11:26 PM