The NY Daily News reports:
[T]he president of the Sergeants Benevolent Association warned demonstrators that he will pursue civil suits against anyone who assaults any union member.
"New York's police officers are working around the clock as the already overburdened economy in New York is being drained by 'occupiers' who intentionally and maliciously instigate needless and violent confrontations with the police," SBA President Ed Mullins said in a statement....
Seventeen demonstrators were arrested and six officers were assaulted during a chaotic march to Union Square on Wednesday night, police said.
A protester responds:
"We have been brutalized and mass-arrested by the NYPD. They can threaten us all they want - we've got lawyers, too."
That's the classic informed citizen's response:
You sue me, and I'll sue you.
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90 comments:
Gee professor, I wonder what professional group is responsible for this litigous mindset??
"We have been brutalized and mass-arrested by the NYPD."
Pussies. They don't know from brutalized. But they again they don't know a damn thing about the real world in general, do they.
How does that old saying go, ndespinelli? "If there is only one lawyer in a town, the lawyer starves; put two lawyers in the same town and they both get rich." LOL, but all too true..
There is nothing else like the smell of lawyers in the morning...it is billable hours.
It would seem to me that legal action based on existing ordinances would be all that is necessary--But not being a lawyer, what do I know
Well... ndspinelli... that's not nice! Lawyers are just trying to make a buck. When they throw you in the ambulance, you'd better hope that some shyster is chasing after it.
The police painting themselves as the victims! That's priceless!
But, it really gets in the way of the ongoing propaganda tactics of OWS. The next step for OWS is to produce martyrs to the cause.
In Oakland, they've already produced an Iraqi vet as a martyr. You can't beat that because vets have unquestionable mortal authority.
Soon, I predict, you'll see a wave of fake Iraqi vets trying to attain martyrdom with OWS. Fake vets playing the martyr were a standard issue item of the anti-war movement in the 60s and 70s.
Well, OWS have advertised that they have 500K in the bank, so there are suddenly assets available.
Normally, when you are assaulted by anarchists or bums, there aren't any assets to go after.
the iraqui vet indeed has absolute moral authority--just as Maureen Dowd--say whatever happened to Cindy Sheehan? She had absolutle moral authority as long as there was a republicvan president? Now that jugears in the white house, not so much?
Gasp--you dont think politics might be involved.
On further reflection, I fell compelled to comment that in the small-town rural 50s midwest I grew up in, lawyers were regarded as just above convicted felons and just below out-and-out shysters (who at least were honest about their graft) on the social pecking scale. My, my, how times have changed..."movin' on up!" (e.g., see: Ann Althouse, lol)
Of course, Love, Mitochondri-Allie, and Garage have said the violence claims are bullshit despite mounting evidence to the contrary. Yep, just like the Tea Party.
A co-worker yesterday waxed erudite claiming that it's a function of frustration and time spent outside like they are doing...it will inevitably lead to bad behavior. He suggested that if the Tea Party had done anything long time like this, we would have seen the same thing.
I simply said there's no way the Tea Party would mount a long-term sit-in like this. He said, "Why not? They're not tough enough?"
"No," I said, "the Tea Partiers have jobs."
Think of all the jobs produced by the litigation industry. The lawyers pay for office space, office supplies, suits and ties, underlings, xerox machines...
Shouldn't the police unions be on the OWS protesters' side?
I wonder what the police department will say about OWS protesters who will bring civil lawsuits against officers who have assaulted them?
In most intances of protests turning violent, the police are most often the ones who start the violence and who commit most of any assaults that occur.
Professor: at least you are honest enough to call it the litigation indusgtry--Henry the Sixth was right--kill all the lawyers. we will leave it to you to determine if the professors that produce lawyers should suffer as well. Of course it may affect your current living standard, but we may have to break a few eggs to make an
WV: Mamon--how does it know
Spoken like a true Bolshevik, Kookie!
Mr Cook: have you not heard of the concept of "sovereign immunity?" I will grant you police, especially the militarized SWAT units deserve prosecution--but it aint gonna happen.
Think of all the jobs produced by the litigation industry. The lawyers pay for office space, office supplies, suits and ties, underlings, xerox machines...
...malpractice insurance companies, malpractice insurance salespeople, idiotic expert witnesses, large, unwieldy, liberty-crushing national health laws passed ostensibly to control huge costs caused in major part by frivolous lawsuits...
"Think of all the jobs produced by the litigation industry."
"Broken Windows" at its finest.
Yeah, I know, tongue-in-cheek, but still.
The litigation industry is second only the law school industry in uselessness
Local residents should flood the OWS camp for each of the three daily meals. Next, local residents should give better than they are getting in the noise category. Air horns blasting at intermittent times during the night, say between fifteen seconds and three minutes apart would probably do the trick.
The locals should flood the zone with lawsuits as well, aiming for the 500k. They could sue the park owners as well.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/10/new-york-city-pulls-plug-zuccotti-parks-power/44265/
The purpose of the OWS demonstrations, now that we're moving into the anticipated violent phase, is to produce martyrs.
Kookie has already forshadowed this strategy.
This is a tried and true strategy from the 60s.
Bait the police. Throw rocks and bottles. In the case of the Weathermen, advertise your potential for violence and rage.
Then, cry victim and drag out the wounded. Annoint them as martyrs.
Voila!
Of course, Love, Mitochondri-Allie, and Garage have said the violence claims are bullshit despite mounting evidence to the contrary.
No I think I have asked *for* the evidence. What I get is usually some report of a homeless person near an encampment bothering other campers.
The only real and verifiable violence has been against the protesters. As a libertarian that should trouble you, but of course it doesn't.
Professor, They do create jobs, but @ the expense of many more jobs. I have worked cases involving foreign companies being sued in this country. I worked large cases working for large companies from Canada and another from Italy. They are appalled @ our system and both told me they would never operate a business here. Both these defendants were product liability cases where there products were sold to American companies. Don't try to bullshit us, all attorneys do is slice up the pie, they don't produce ANYTHING.
The only real and verifiable violence has been against the protesters. As a libertarian that should trouble you, but of course it doesn't.
I reported last week that a couple of the protestors started beating on each other. You apparently chose to ignore that piece of violence. As a supporter of the occupiers, I would think that would bother you, but, of course, it doesn't, and neither do the increasing reports of sexual assaults, theft, and internal bickering over donated funds (see Occupy-Portland).
Occupy the NYPD!!!
Wouldn't the classic Police response be: you brutalize me, I'll brutalize you? Law is for pussies with too much time on their hands.
It will be interesting to see where Mayor Bloomberg's breaking point in the current contretemps is
Bloomberg is hoping for a prolonged record cold snap with snow and ice.
Ann -- Ann -- I don't have underlings, I have employees (also minions and flunkies).
I once spoke to a shipmate who was at one of the fleet weeks and was talking about what a great time he had. quote: "Say what you want about New Yorkers but they love their firemen, they love their cops and they love the Navy."
I'd add they love their neigborhoods as well, and while a Costie is not exactly a sailor, I think the OWS has managed to attack all of them.
I'd be interested to hear Trooper or another native on the protesters.
Shouting Thomas has called the spin right on OWS and the martyrs. Especially the part on the absolute moral authority of an Iraqi Vet rockthrower, who is being referred to as "a valiant hero, felled by panicked (re: cowardly) police".
Remember the Left and the progressive Jewish media that used to figuratively spit on US troops and still does on the CIA - thought the gravest recent sins of Republicans were GITMO and "extrajudicial assassinations of innocent until proven guilty jihadi suspects" - until Obama made those things OK.
Code Pink and weekly media casualty figures on "our heroes", demand for casket photo ops at Dover AFB and all those cute little stages fake cemeteries all went away once Obama was elected, as well.
These days the spin is a gay soldier has absolute moral authority to push any part of the gay agenda - and no one has a right to disagree with "such a Hero, Who Serves!". And of course, Vets who protest on the side of the Left are the greatest of humanity, while Vets serving as cops are oppressors and pigs. (just like it supposedly went down in the 60s)
And of course there was the guy who was arrested for sneaking in a tent and smelling a girl's feet, and pissing in a jar and trying to get other protesters to sample it claiming it was energy drink. But garage would say, "What's wrong? Who hasn't done that?"
And of course there was the guy who was arrested for sneaking in a tent and smelling a girl's feet, and pissing in a jar and trying to get other protesters to sample it claiming it was energy drink. But garage would say, "What's wrong? Who hasn't done that?"
Even if true, which I doubt, it pales in comparison to all the broken windows, nooses faxed, and white powder sent to Dem legislators during the health care Tea Party summer of hate, doesn't it?
"we've got lawyers, too."
That would be the National Lawyers Guild.
C4 as usual has a gimlet eye for events--Good commentary, sir.
So vets, the Jewish media, and gays are really to blame here? That's good commentary Roger? Jesus H Fucking Christ!
Another barrage of fucking lies about the Tea Party, by the pathological liar, garbage.
Garbage, are you capable of writing a sentence that isn't a deliberate fucking lie?
Are you capable of uttering a phrase that isn't a deliberate fucking lie?
Garage: simmer down son--go back and read C4s commentary--has to do with the tripe of absolute moral authority (that of MoDo fame and Cindy Sheehan)
Is C4 an antisemite? no doubt; is J an anti-semite? no doubt. sometimes even blind pigs find an acorn, and it seems to me C4s comments were on target.
You view, of course, may diverge--if so spell out why
We're back to the same old shit with garbage.
Garbage, you're obviously a paid agent. You're obviously paid to disseminate lies.
It would be interesting to know who pays you to tell these fucking lies that you invent.
It would also be interesting to know about your criminal record.
Even if true, which I doubt, it pales in comparison to all the broken windows, nooses faxed, and white powder sent to Dem legislators during the health care Tea Party summer of hate, doesn't it?
If you're going to cast that wide a net, GM, indicting every member of the TP for any negative behavior, you have to accept ownership of the assault-rifle toting white supremacists that showed up at, and took part of, the Occupy protest in AZ.
In for a penny, and all that...
the noose incidents, IIRC, were between faculty members at Columbia University--pretty weak allegation IMO
white powder? I assure you having been on too many white powder incidents, were primarily students trying to avoid finals, or disgruntled perps trying to miss a bail hearing--at least in Memphis.
Pretty thin gruel there, Garage
This is what you get for tying yourselves to the Lefty Establishment.
In the good old days, slobs like this had a nightstick wrapped around their heads to teach them the error of their ways - a lesson that usually stuck. Now, it's a note from their lawyer.
Monkeyboy said...
I once spoke to a shipmate who was at one of the fleet weeks and was talking about what a great time he had. quote: "Say what you want about New Yorkers but they love their firemen, they love their cops and they love the Navy."
I'd add they love their neigborhoods as well, and while a Costie is not exactly a sailor, I think the OWS has managed to attack all of them.
The Coasties will tell you they're the elite core around which the United States Navy rallies in time of war, but you're thinking of the Occupation in Baaston, and it was a girl Coastie at that.
I'd be interested to hear Trooper or another native on the protesters.
No doubt he's lurking somewhere.
Roger J. said...
It will be interesting to see where Mayor Bloomberg's breaking point in the current contretemps is
You may be waiting for Satan to open that long-promised skating rink.
It will be interesting to see where Mayor Bloomberg's breaking point in the current contretemps is
I just read something about NY telling the occupiers no more power.
Since I threw the point up about Bloomberg's breaking point, I should provide my opinion: It will be when the taxpaying business owners whose revenue is being affected by the scum who are OWS protesters finally cut into Mr Bloomberg's campaign war chest--sooner rather than later
Garage said:
Haha. See how that works.
Why did you delete that, GM?
If you're going to cast that wide a net, GM, indicting every member of the TP for any negative behavior, you have to accept ownership of the assault-rifle toting white supremacists that showed up at, and took part of, the Occupy protest in AZ.
Those dudes, like J.T. Ready, were at Tea Party rallies too.
Why did you delete that, GM?
To give a broader rebuttal.
"See how that works" = casting a wide net works both ways.
To give a broader rebuttal.
Oh, I see. Is that forthcoming?
As for the protestors, I have to say if you are raped, preyed upon otherwise victimised--sorry about that
If you get you skulls crackied, sorry about that
I simply dont care
embark on a futile campaign, your problem, not mine
want to be a martyr? your call
My empathy train never left the station.
Oh, I see. Is that forthcoming?
I noted the same white supremacist group in AZ was also at Tea Party rallies.
Roger J. said...
Since I threw the point up about Bloomberg's breaking point, I should provide my opinion: It will be when the taxpaying business owners whose revenue is being affected by the scum who are OWS protesters finally cut into Mr Bloomberg's campaign war chest--sooner rather than later
Venckman's Law.
In a litigation battle, it seems to me that the protestors have the least to lose and the most to win. The younger rabble come from middle class backgrounds, but, at their age, they have few assets. Is it possible to sue the parents of someone like, say, Bill Ayers for gross negligence for having raised such a twit?.....Depth of indignation is directly proportional to depth of pockets. There was a young man named Sean Bell who was mistakenly killed the police. The police were wrong, but they had reason to believe that they were in mortal danger. There was also a young woman who was killed while trying to shield some children from gunfire. Her assailant had no reason to believe that he was in mortal danger. Guess which murder aroused the most moral indignation and outrage. Does anyone doubt that this is because Sean Bell's heirs get to divvy up millions and the young woman grievers get to divvy up condolence cards?
I noted the same white supremacist group in AZ was also at Tea Party rallies.
Ah, bueno. Did you also note that at the time the TP was being likewise blamed for having them show up at their protest?
I worked for a publishing company, that published law books. West Publishing, ever hear of it? I know you lawyers have. Key Number System. It's Thomson Reuters now.
Garage it's right here. Unlike you I don't lie and make shit up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIDnmLQry4Q&feature=player_embedded
Comparing the largely conservative, working and middle class Tea Partiers unfavorably with the unkempt rabble of the Poopstock crowd requires a supreme level of dishonesty and distortion. If anyone is qualified for the job it's you.
Rain and snow in the forecast for OWS New York. This "movement" is tiresome and pointless. A gaggle of poorly educated people, anguished at reality are throwing a pout. They apparently have the means to continue but it will be determined if they have the will. We note that their presence in the media has diminished and they have moved to the inside pages. The only way they can move to the front is to incite the police to attack them.
This "movement" is tiresome and pointless
Yet you never tire and you just can't stop talking about them!
"We have been brutalized and mass-arrested by the NYPD. They can threaten us all they want - we've got lawyers, too."
I'm guessing they either haven't been or do not have lawyers, because if I was brutalized by the NYPD, hiring a lawyer would NOT be conditional on if the officer sued me first. In fact, it's a stupid thing to say. Either sue them or shut up about it. Not sure what you would sue for on a mass arrest thought.
"Professor: at least you are honest enough to call it the litigation indusgtry--Henry the Sixth was right--kill all the lawyers. we will leave it to you to determine if the professors that produce lawyers should suffer as well. Of course it may affect your current living standard..."
You are assuming that most lawyers are litigators. Good lawyers try to structure things to avoid litigation. Even after a conflict has arisen, you should try to avoid litigation.
(Religious digression: Jesus said: "Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.")
You are assuming that law professors teach law students to file lots of lawsuits and litigate to the hilt. That is not what we teach. It is much more about conflict avoidance and conflict resolution, and if done well, lawyers are worth paying for because of the efficiency in avoiding the expense and anguish of fighting over things.
We lawprofs frequently talk and write about the problem of too much litigation and avoiding generating conflict. Law professors are not into maximizing the number of lawsuits. I know people love to repeat the clichés about lawyers, but this is not what we teach in law school and not what most lawyers do.
"Even if true, which I doubt, it pales in comparison to all the broken windows, nooses faxed, and white powder sent to Dem legislators during the health care Tea Party summer of hate, doesn't it?"
Beats me. What broken windows? What noose faxed? What white powder? Who was found to have done all that?
See how valuable lawyers are.
Without good old fashioned litigation, there would be no way to settle the issues; except, using a noise meter on the chants and drum circles with ties decided by Garage's ability to serial shame the violent, violent Police Thugs that the occupiers beat up for propaganda.
Lawyers create peace and civilization. That's why angry people hate lawyers.
Beats me. What broken windows? What noose faxed? What white powder? Who was found to have done all that?
Here is a start
I would say people opposed to ObamaCare perpetrated it? What do you think?
I would say people opposed to ObamaCare perpetrated it? What do you think?
I would say, as you so often do, video or it didn't happen. Ever check out that video of your guy Van Jones and Great Big Bowl Of Equal Lives? The video exists yet you couldn't be bothered to watch it.
Garage I don't know how old you are but frankly if the OWS people got really stupid in their quest for 'martyrs' all they will do is get themselves killed by the cops or the national guard and most of American wouldn't give a shit. They will see that as a plus not a minus. All the violent protesting in the 60's got Nixon elected. More violent protesting got Nixon re-elected in a landslide in 1972. If Obama is perceived as being tied to these people, and he is at the moment, then he might as well get his affairs in order for his post-presidency life as he will be a one term president.
tradguy: "Lawyers create peace and civilization."
I'd give the credit for civilization, if I had to put it all in one basket, to the inventor of the repeating rifle.
And our current remarkable period of peace (no world wars, no major unrestricted wars for over 60 years) can be attributed to the existence of nuclear weapons.
Lawyers create nothing. That's precisely the problem with "the litigation industry" -- it might as well be a series of men with shovels, one digging a hole while the guy next to him fills it in.
But then, those guys would get their hands dirty. Lawyers wouldn't stoop so low. They prefer to make their money with their mouths, like those in the oldest profession. (Not that I'm comparing lawyers to whores. I have no cause to so insult and debase whores.)
Lawyers resolve conflicts, but many of these conflicts would never have arisen, had it not been for lawyers, who have created every fucking law and the byzantine system by which they're applied, for their own purposes.
A supporter of the OWS should be able to put into words what the "movement" wants or stands for. The tea party wanted/wants a government smaller than the one we have at present. One sentence. The tea party identified office seekers who did not hold that view or who mocked that view. The tea party voted them out.
What one sentence will the OWS "movement" use to toss out politicians?
You know, this is probably a silly comparison, but bear with me - it occurred to me that the OWS protestors can be likened to people indulging in (Crack's bete noire) "past life" regression. Somehow, everyone was a noble, a monarch, a trusted advisor at the helm of power, and so on. Nobody ever gets told that in a former life their job was cleaning out the crapper of Rameses the Great.
Now, of course, the person pulling this scam wants the mark to come back, so he feeds the ego. But it speaks to a deep longing in the soul - people WANT to believe they are special or unique or supremely talented and that only (take your choice) society / the rich / current reincarnation / dullard critics / the bourgeoisie are keeping them from the wealth and status that they so obviously deserve.
I see a lot of that mentality with OWS, who really have no other message than "everything sucks!" These protestors seem convinced that if only the obstacles were removed (corporations, investment bankers, the greedy 1%), somehow profit would magically flow to them. They want an overthrow, convinced that they will come out of it happier, richer and more fulfilled, when in reality any real revolution would find most of the OWS first up against the wall.
Anyway, my own two cents. Take it as you will.
Wimpy wimpy wimpy
This is dumb. If they're assaulting people, why aren't they being *arrested* for it?
The police union's response seems, weirdly enough, like vigilantism.
Roger - "If you get you skulls crackied, sorry about that.I simply dont care.
Still like that poor projectile joke, huh?
Scott Olsen, the Iraq war veteran who suffered serious head injuries after being hit by a projectile fired by police during the Occupy Oakland protests, has woken up and is lucid as he awaits surgery, hospital officials and family members have said.
Olsen, a 24-year-old former US Marine, was struck in the head during anti-Wall Street protests on Tuesday night. He has been upgraded from critical to fair condition.
Olsen "responded with a very large smile" to a visit from his parents, Highland General hospital spokesman Warren Lyons said. "He's able to understand what's going on. He's able to write and hear but has a little difficulty with his speech," Lyons said.
Doctors had not operated on Olsen yet and were waiting to see if swelling in his brain eased, Lyons said.
The 2 words that cause the legal industry to collectively shit their pants..LOSER PAYS.
Professor: thanks for a lucid response to my jibe. You said it very nicely--I dont agree, but then we can agree to not agree
The good professor is engaging in attorney bullying and bullshitting. She states that people are using stereotypes and generalizations and then engages in a huge out of her ass generalization, speaking on behalf of ALL law professors stating, "That is not what we teach." Well professor, I will take you @ your word that is not what YOU teach. And, I'll even give you latitude in saying that is not what the colleagues you associate w/ teach. But, how in the hell can you unequivocally state that is not what ANY law professor teaches. You can maybe bully and bullshit your students..but not me, I've been around the system as long as you and in the real working world the whole time.
Love: Thanks for the update on Olsen's condition! Very helpful. hopefully the occupiers in Oakland will vote out the Mayor and the council members who ordered the crackdown.
You never got back to me on the newspapers you read. I gave you my list: NYT, WSJ, Guardian, FT, The Hindu, London Telegraph. Every day.
Love: you are entitled to your opinion. As am I; you may think I am an asshole and unfeeling and without any redeeming value.
Fine--don't care.
I am grateful for Mr Olsen's service as I am for all veterans. However, prior service does not give a pass for bad choices in the present. I spent 25 years in the army and am quite familiar with the concept of service.
And you never did provide the cite where I said his injury was hilarious--In fact that was YOUR commentary, not mine.
To my point: people involved in riots may have to pay the price. Mr Olsen did, and probably on the taxpayers dime
garage - you are really evil and full of shit. So someone faxed a noose to someone. How am I to blame for that?
Love: Scott Olsen, the Iraq war veteran who blah blah blah
3 paragraphs. 3 references to Scott Olsen's "marine" background.
Love is really wrapping herself in that bloody shirt today. Sickening and pathetic.
And why is Garage faxing nooses to people?
Oh lookie:
Olsen founder of “I Hate The Marine Corps” blog.
"No, he still didn’t deserve a fractured skull, but I think it’s a little bit odd that he hates the Marine Corps... until it gives him and his fellow hippies a measure of moral authority"
So Olsen is at best a Shitbird. Gee, why am I not suprised...
Fen
One of the comments on that website pique my curiosity to know the status of his "formerness" with the Marines. I've not been able to turn it up, but, admittedly, I've only been passively interested in the cloak of moral authority the protestors seek to grasp from this guy's status.
Well, it says something that people like Love can't mention Olsen without attaching "marine" to him.
Yah, they really care about him. Sure.
Pasta...You are close. The threat of being sucked into the system that has huge delays and high costs is what causes peace just as much as the Colt45's threat did.
Plus we do it in a language code they cannot crack, so they become stuck like Brer Rabbit.
We say the only good thing about any lawsuit is the day it is over.
So behave yourselves out there or lawyers will catch you in a Court of competent jurisdiction.
garage mahal said...
The only real and verifiable violence has been against the protesters.
You mean other than this, right?
Leslie offered to sell the woman drugs, and when she declined that offer and his romantic advances, he punched her in the face and dished out more blows to two friends who had come to her defense, police said.
The woman filed a complaint with police, and Leslie was arrested at Zuccotti Park about 8 p.m. on Saturday.
Then, on Monday, the trio of young toughs paid the woman a visit at the park, threatening her with retribution.
"You got our friend arrested. We're gonna kill you! Watch you back!" they warned her, police said.
Police on Tuesday released grainy surveillance camera images of the three punks."
"The assault and the watch-your-back threat were far from the first signs of criminal troubles within the Occupy Wall Street ranks.
Or did you mean other than this?
Occupy Cleveland” protester tells police she was raped in her tent over the weekend.
You are an ignorant clown saying ignorant things.
"[T]he president of the Sergeants Benevolent Association warned demonstrators that he will pursue civil suits against anyone who assaults any union member."
Excuse me? If police officers are being assaulted, why aren't they threatening to file criminal charges?
The police union is missing the point. Sue a bunch of adult children who have pointless degrees, and are deep in student loan debt. What do you want to do, garnish their wages from Starbucks?
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