They're heckling him.
He's going to get that quote thrown at him again and again, and he's ready to explain it here. He'll have to explain it in the future, and having an elegant explanation will serve him well.
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They are not his friends because they are not corporation people.
Corporations are just a word for things people choose to do together.
(makes a good bumpersticker)
You know a politician is pissed--or in trouble--when the politician starts addressing members of the audience as "my friend."
When McCain started doing this during the 2008 campaign, and particularly during the debates, you knew he couldn't win.
Saying "my friend" to adversaries is like pouring gas on a fire.
Romney is a country-club Republican. A RINO.
Corporations are not evil incarnate, but they are not people, either. And, like people, they can be shitty (General Electric comes to mind).
Mittens!
He's already screwed up ... because he didn't come out loud and clear about the stupidity of "raising the ceiling" ... while refusing to cut programs.
Man, is the stupid party wide open to be punched to the ground, or what?
There's a better test!
Trump came out and threatens to run as an independent. He got a plug in, too, for his TV show.
And, he called it so hard on Mitt Romney ... I learned why Mitt's hair is a helmet. He can't ride a bicycle without it!
It's like the elites loving Gerry Ford. Not enough that Nixon just used Ford to block Nelson Rockefeller!
You know, I like politics, because it's an easy game to figure out. Unlike cricket.
And.I.am.a.robot.
I would like to see a ticket having Romney salted with a Tea Party-vetted running mate (or vice versa). It's the kind of compromise faux-centrist Obama will be forced to make as well.
____________
wv = gasma: noun, pronounced "GAZ-ma" an orgasm so good it takes your breath away.
He said "Corporations are people, my friend."
He needed to say "Corporations ARE people, my friend."
@Irene -- Good point on "my friend." It was a close call. He almost said "you morons." Which would have been correct.
@gerry -- In the context of "who you gonna tax" corporations are people. There's no way to tax corporations without it coming out of people's pockets, whether stockholders, employees, or customers.
That said, Romney is hopeless. If he slogs away and everything falls perfectly in line for him he'll achieve a victory of McCainesque proportions. That's the best case for him.
Soylent Green-
It's people!
"Romney is a country-club Republican. A RINO."
Real Republicans have always been country-club Republicans, my friend.
Real Republicans have always been country-club Republicans, my friend.
And real statists have always had a boot stomping on a human face, etc, etc.
I really think this will get forgotten.
You are basing your assumption on the unfounded fact
that the general public is-
A) Paying attention right now-
and-
B) Remembers anything that happened two weeks ago.
Remember political internet junkies are a minority.
'my friend' is better than 'macaca'
Does he realize how much he sounds like McCain when he keeps saying "my friend(s)" after every sentence?
Robert Cook wrote: Real Republicans have always been country-club Republicans, my friend.
That's a bit like saying real Democrats having always been southern racists, my friend.
Do we really want to elect a guy who is still officially living in his son's unfinished basement?
Mitts correct that the money from corportations goes to people. Some of that money is going to my 401k right now. My Social Security money is going down the government sewer hole. The money I should be getting doesn't exist in an account for that purpose.
Useful liberal idiots that don't understand how their food, clothes, housing, etc came into being.
3:50 (amended)
Robert Cook wrote: Real Republicans have always been country-club Republicans, my friend.
That's a bit like saying real Democrats have* always been southern racists, my friend.
________________
*Creeping gerundocracy!
Romney is a country-club Republican.
That used to be the only kind. I miss those days.
real Democrats having always been southern racists
They're not southern racists any more, just racists. And, they've created a welfare system to keep the black man in his place that works better than the old system because it's more insidious.
Corporations are indeed people, particularly C Corporations. My company incorporated for liability and tax reasons. At my peak I had 6 employees including myself. There are many corporations that fit this profile.
madalaskan, people aren't paying attention, but the assholes who make political ads are paying attention, and a truncated version of that clip will find its way into an endless series of disingenuous political commercials. There's too many faux-populist tools out there who go crazy at the idea that corporations are legal persons, this fragment of speech will land right on that jitter trigger.
I don't care, I've never had much use for Romney.
Real Republicans have always been country-club Republicans, my friend.
You obviously never met my grandfather.
When I attended a seminar on incorporating many years ago. That was the only way that doctors could save for retirement. The lawyer conducting the seminar said that corporations were exactly like people. They could buy and sell things and sign contracts. He said there was only one thing that corporations couldn't do. They couldn't go to jail. He said that the officers were the ones who would go to jail. Other than that, corporations were exactly like people.
Romney seems to be trying to walk down the middle so far and it is not working IMO because he is just blending in with the background noise. We need a leader not a tightrope walker.
My bad..I just looked @ the articles of incorporation, Spinelli and Associates, Inc. was an S corporation. That's the route many small companies choose.
Triangle Man said...
Romney is a country-club Republican.
That used to be the only kind. I miss those days.
==================
There is something to be said for that, as the professionals and business owners that went to their country club golf tournaments talked about bettering their local community, creating jobs, building a needed bridge or power plant. They believed in fiscal conservatism, and if not noblisse oblige, a duty to look ahead and grow not just businesses, but community and infrastructure.
The non-country club Republicans are dominated by the Southern Religious Right...in short, Southern Democrats that have lost little of their past Democrat taste for big government, payoffs for "pay to play", love of cars, guns, fireworks.. big credit card debt, pork, cowing the masses with what Jesus would have wanted, and new glorious wars of adventure!
A Southern Dem of the 1950s is little different than a Religious Right Southerner of today.
Eh, I don't see it.
It's not a main issue.
9 out of 10 voters are going to base their vote on that issue?
It's the spending, the economy -that's a law prof golden dream issue-not the general public.
The event horizon is going to present issues that over shadow the "campaign-finance" debate big time.
Hell if we asked general voters what their primary issue was that wouldn't even make the top ten.
They're heckling him.
They're also plants - the political kind, with vegetation growing out of their heads.
Dare I say-
20?
Could even go-30.
If someone wants to waste their ad money on that...more power to them.
Voters want to hear how you are going to solve what matters to them.
Right now with unemployment, home values....you get the picture-that issue-
doesn't clear the bar with the vast majority of voters.
OTOH, there are those saying today he had his, "I am paying for this microphone", moment. I don't think so, but somebody obviously told him to show some spunk.
And he's right, a corporation is nothing without the people who work in it.
Robert Cook said...
"Romney is a country-club Republican. A RINO."
Real Republicans have always been country-club Republicans, my friend.
No, real Republicans ended slavery, won the Civil, Spanish-american, and Indian Wars, pushed the boundaries of this country into the Caribbean and the Pacific and made us the economic powerhouse that won WWII and the Cold War.
People like Cook can't stand that.
chickenlittle said...
Robert Cook wrote: Real Republicans have always been country-club Republicans, my friend.
That's a bit like saying real Democrats having always been southern racists, my friend.
They were also secessionists and traitors.
Some still are.
PS And completely OT: While catching up on the posts that came up while I was in WV, I saw Irene had her Poppy.
Many congrats, Irene, and may you and Poppy be BFFs for many years to come.
Romney's not the best. I don't think the best is even running. But he's better than Obama. That's enough.
Aside*...
"Corporations are people, my friend"
"I'm not your friend."
"Okay. Corporations are people, asshole."
*that's the way I hear it in my head.
Of course, legally they are persons (because otherwise you could not sue them for example), but now Mitt will have to explain why.
I like his explanation here and think this is why Romney can still win the nomination and the Presidency. Really, this clip has got it all -- 1) a sensible explanation by the candidate, 2) ignorant hecklers embarrassing themselves, 3) a clear example of Romney handling opponents with civility while the shouters demonstrate incivility, and 4) a ready-made video that _opponents_ of Romney will think damns him but in fact a majority of Americans will agree with.
Consider Wisconsin this past week -- all the abuse and hatred and ridicule thrown Scott Walker's way, all the polls and the pundits who were so sure Walker was digging his political grave. And then the recall elections validated him. In the process it was the unions themselves who have publicized Walker's actions thinking they put him in a negative light, only to publicize Walker and have people generally agree with him. This video is the same way.
I like that Romney is dealing with Hecklers. Mitt is by far not my first choice for GOP nominee, but he is far better a choice than Barack Obama.
Real Republicans have always been country-club Republicans, my friend.
Kookie, let's just skip to the chase.
You're an idiot.
These plants look fake.
I also agree with Mike that Romney does deal with hecklers in a good way. I like that mix of civility and toughness.
The quote is out of context; he explained it on the spot. His wording a little clumsy, but he is saying that anything that happens to the corporation comes out of people's pockets. Simple enough. He is not at all referring to the legal fiction of corporation as person.
Better: "Yeah, right. And corporations are going to refrain from passing those taxes along to people because they're run by such nice guys, right?"
I congratulate Romney for saying out loud a simple truth that no one else has dared to say...Corporation's income goes to people.
That is like telling people tomatoes are not poisonous.
Will anyone believe in a simple truth?
Yes, they will if they hear it proclaimed.
Lefties want their statist dream to continue, but it quickly ran out of money once Obama stepped on the gas in 2008.
All of Western Europe is feeling the same pinch of massive socialist failure.
And, as with the planted hecklers in Iowa, they will fight dirty the whole way down.
Although they were able to convince a majority to vote for the most inexperienced and unready man ever to be President, what they can't do is make the economy run under collectivist principles.
That game is over.
Busted flat in Florida in 08, waiting for an orange man
And Tagg feeling nearly as faded as his jeans.
Mitt thumbed a diesel bus down just before it rained,
It rode them all the way to New England.
They headed back to Iowa in 2011, Ann was playing soft while Mitt sang the economic blues.
Windshield wipers slapping time, Ann was holding Mitt's hand in her's,
They sang every song that driver knew.
Corporations are just another word for more taxes to lose,
Nothing don't mean nothing honey if it is tax free, now now.
And feeling good was easy, Lord, when Mitt sang the blues,
You know feeling good was good enough for thee,
Good enough for Ann and Mitt Romney.
I say it all the time.
Where do you think your paycheck, and everything you buy with it, comes from? You my friend, are tugging at your leash everyday to get something from a corporation.
If you have to have this explained to you, then just vote Dem. You'll be fooled into later anyway.
He is not at all referring to the legal fiction of corporation as person.
It is not just a "legal fiction." Yeah a corporation is not a living human being, but it is made up of living human beings and there is a very good reason why we recognize those entities as persons.
But hey, if we are going to stop recognizing corporations does that also mean we stop recognizing unions?
So who were those 37% of the American people that voted GOP in 1936? Were they all country clubbers?
He's going to get that quote thrown at him again and again, and he's ready to explain it here.
Thrown at him by statist Communist types. Most Americans work for corporations and don't view them as these evil entities you seem to think they are professor.
I thought Mitt sounded a little feisty there.
That's good.
And yes, corporations are people. If he's good at explaining it over and over, it will be a good issue.
Why do we tax people twice for the same money? Because we want their money
Who the hell goes to a country club anyway? Nobody I know.
Let me put it this way. If defending the idea of corporations gets you in hot water with the American people, then this country is already irredeemably fucked.
Mike Bruner @ 4:20 PM got it right.
Romney was articulate. He explained a basic business term. He dealt well with the hecklers.
I'm not a Romney-backer, but all you guys in the first half of the thread who dumped over him by saying "RINO" and "Mittens" aren't seeing that Romney is saying a lot of the right things about taxes, growth, and business environment.
He'll have to explain it in the future, and having an elegant explanation will serve him well.
It is in the Left’s interest to vigorously deny this basic fact(corporations are people), to de-humanize corporations; corporations are one of the Left’s modern Bogeymen.
Would it be OK to say, “Unions are people?” How about, “Cities are people?” “Governments are people?”
But for the Left any positive reference to a Bogeyman is by definition scandalous. One does not utter blasphemy and get away with it. This unspoken assumption (corporations are evil) that is only occasionally asserted outright, insinuates itself further into popular acceptance every day.
That game is over.
If only it were. I see the game as lopsidedly in favor of the Left. They have the Senate, the Whitehouse, a large part of the Federal judiciary system, the MSM, Academia, the intellectual class, Entertainment, artists and some blogs.
The Right has FoxNews, talk radio, maybe the SCOTUS and some blogs.
grackle - the right has the military. Don't forget it.
To paraphrase a great man:
"When you kill [incorporating], you take everything man has and everything he ever will have."
Plus the only part of the clip getting national play time is-
If you want to vote for someone who will raise taxes-you can vote for Obama!
Yes, 'my friend' is too reminiscent of McCain. But he seemed likeable and relaxed in this vid. I don't hate him.
"If only [the game] were [over]. I see the game as lopsidedly in favor of the Left."
That's not the game I meant.
The economics of the situation are unsustainable. They can elect 100% Democrats to govern the US, and that will not improve the economics. That game is over, all but the shoutin'..
Things will not turn around until the Great Deleveraging is completed.
Perhaps he should have said "corporations don't pay tax; they collect tax from their customers and transfer it to the government."
But, that's probably too complicated to be understood by anyone who believes there's a wad of cash that can be extracted from corporate bank accounts with any knock-on effect on prices.
Jack
What if he would have said "Unions are people, my friends"?
Romneycare is a big hurdle for me, and I judge people by what they do rather than what they say and even less how they say it, but Romney was impressive in that clip. I like the way he handled all of it. I want to see more candidates in such situations - up close dealing with the stupidity, and showing how they understand their own positions by defending them against minds in need of growth.
Fred4Pres said...
I like that Romney is dealing with Hecklers. Mitt is by far not my first choice for GOP nominee, but he is far better a choice than Barack Obama.
=================
My 1st choice is that group of candidates that can beat Obama. And who have a good shot at doing substantially better tha Obama on jobs, fiscal management, returning America into a nimble, strong economic competitor.
The rest are a waste of money, time, media attention. Supporting them might "send a message" to Reid, like Sharron Angle did. Or Obama on his 2nd Inaugural. But then again, how much did Harry Reid care after being gifted with Angle giving him a victory??
From that group of electable candidates - Romney currently fits the bill, imperfect though he might be...in a way John McCain/Palin failed in 2008. Hopefully, some others will emerge that have the electability thing going and seem capable of running the country and dealing with the economic and fiscal crisis AND be able to deal with the countries most important to us (meaning China, Brazil, Mexico, France, Canada, Russia, India, Japan....and not the Yemens, Congos, Haitis, Somalias, Syrias, etc.)
If you own your own business you are stupid if you don't incorporate.
A guy trips over a sidewalk crack in front of your business. He sues, he wins--if you are not incorporated he can take everything you own and every dime you will ever make.
But if you incorporated he can only take what the corporation owns, which is only the money you put in it. The corporation does not own your home or your bank account, if you are following the law.
Futhermore being incorporated means that your business purchases goods and services with pre-tax dollars, not post-tax dollars.
The majority of corporations are small businesses for this reason.
I get easily incensed by what I perceive to be distortions of facts. My blood got angried up when Oregon had an initiative to raise the minimum tax for corporations--the group sponsoring the ad said, "Make the corporations pay their fair share". Trying to make people think it applied only to BP or Bank of America. When in reality the vast majority of those affected were mom-and-pop operations. It wasn't an outrageous tax increase, but the misleading rhetoric angered me.
That's why you never believe them when they say "soak the rich". That's when you discover that they mean you. Washington rejected a state income tax that year for that reason--they promised it only applied to "the rich". Just like Federal income tax did in the beginning.
Real Republicans have always been country-club Republicans, my friend.What a crock of schumer. My great-great-grandfather was a New England farmer and die-hard anti-slavery Whig whose farm was a waystation on the Underground Railroad. He was one of the first Easterners I know of to bolt the Whigs what was left of them, anyway) for the new Republican party of Fremont and Lincoln. They believed in hard work, thrift and philanthropy toward their fellow man. That some of them chose to establish clubs of the successful is small potatoes to the philosophy of self-reliance and self-responsibility they lived and espoused.
Who the heck would want to form a club made up of failures, anyway?
He should issue a press release stating that the text read "corporations are persons", but then a staffer with a Masters in English changed it to "people". That way he has an excuse and he can attack Ivy League Elitist English Majors -- a two'fer.
When someone takes his after tax money and spends it, he might pay a sales tax. If someone buys shares in a corporation with his after tax money, he is tax again when the corporation pays taxes on its profits. And if he receives a dividend from that corporation, he is tax again on that dividend so in reality shareholders often are double and triple tax where as someone who spends his money only pays a sales tax. Money from taxing a corporation isn't found money as a lot of people seem to think. Plus, think how much more efficiently the corporation would spend that money creating more jobs that could then be taxed.
You can't change lead into gold, but you can melt it into bullets.
We can fix this place...
But we probably will not.
Now is not the time for cookie cutter solutions.
Tailored to fit.
wv-conisma- Palin's conisma could save the world yet.
Romney will never call Obama out for the vicious subversive that he is because That's. Just. Not. Done. Sarah will. Run Sarah, Run!
Let 'em run Mitt. I already said I'm betting the stupid party comes in 3rd.
Sure. I liked Ross Perot.
But I was comparing Perot to the elder Bush on one side, and Bill Clinton on the other.
I've never regretted my vote. I put the button in the vault. And, rolled up the pastic sign to save among my tshochtkis in my garage.
I've never once taken any responsibility for who gets elected. Or even when it's between horses, who has the longer nose.
The GOP so far hasn't done anything right.
Soon they'll be painting the hole up where the ceiling got raised. Because during sex, their wives complain.
But I can't point to a country that's in better shape.
Corporations are not evil incarnate, but they are not people, either.
I (and my husband) are a corporation. We are people.
The Republicans need a better answer than this however, to counter the mindless chanting of the morons on the left.
@ Gabriel Hanna
We are incorporated for all of the reasons that you stated, plus many more.
We pay ourselves a salary from the corporation and are W2 payees where we personally pay payroll taxes and the corporation pays the taxes on the business side. JUST like any other employer. The difference is the pass through treatment of the profits of the corporation. (not subject to payroll taxes)
We lease our business establishment, vehicles, tools to the corporation.
And you are correct that most corporations in the United States are small businesses. Mom and Pop organizations. Far from rich fat cats.
They are more likely to be the local farmer, gas station owner, carpenter, plumber, day care center owner, beauty parlor owner.
Eeeeeevil business owners all, who provide jobs, participate in the local Chamber of Commerce, pay their taxes and try to provide a service for the community. They must be crushed and stopped.
The economics of the situation are unsustainable.
True. But whose fault is that? The Left’s answer: The Tea Party, the GOP, Bush, corporations, etc. The Blame Game is the real game.
grackle - the right has the military. Don't forget it.
Don’t “forget it?” The last time I looked the Commander in Chief was a Lefty.
Suggestion for Romney and other Republicans to counter the eeeeevil corporation mantra.
Get a line up of ordinary corporate owners, preferably from the location or state that they are campaigning in. Have them lined up with a sign saying their business/corporation name, what their product is and other information about their business like how many people they employ. Maybe even line up some of their employees.
The local Hardware store owner. A small trucking company. The McDonald's franchise owner. The construction firm. Grocery store owner.
Put a FACE on the eeeeevil corporations.
Caro Herman: non compos mentis on steroids.
edutcher, thanks!
She is a very nice puppy. Sweet but confident and stubborn.
The Republicans are temperamentally incapable of the kind of insouciance that would make the Dems a laughingstock. Reagan, former Dem, was the closest they ever came.
There's no way to tax corporations without it coming out of people's pockets
Customers almost always. It was explained in The Federalist.
Moral people they are
The liberals who say that corporations have no free speech rights are literally saying that the government can close down the Washington Post any time they want.
Liberals hear "corporation" and they cannot think any more. It's pathetic, sad and embarrassing for their side.
There are so many stupid liberal arguments. "Corporations have no free speech rights" has to be the dumbest.
Having said that, Romney's comment is stupid. It's like a liberal saying, "Governments are people, my friend." It's kind of hilariously dim-witted.
The government regulation of campaign finance is the problem demanding limits and names of donors directly to the candidate.
Bundlers are the grey area. That is when a wealthy man tells all of his friends to donate to keep his business and tacitly says that all donations can be added @133% ratio to future billings to the wealthy man's businesses.
But indirect donations to Issues organisations are still unlimited.
Corporations shareholders are secret, although many close corps are known to be a family group.
Sub S corps and LLCs have no taxes anyway, and most small business uses that type.
Romney was telling the hecklers one of the reasons not to tax C corporations as if they are the wealthy ones and not their shareholders.
Corporations are made up of people.
Unions are like corporations. Do unions pay taxes, or just their members? Serious question for someone who knows.
corporations are just ways that PEOPLE choose to organize themselves for one purpose or another. Of course, they're not typically one single individual person, but they are more than one person, i.e., people. Saying they're not people is like saying the PTA isn't people or the SEIU isn't people or the Democrat Party isn't people or the House of Representatives isn't people. OF course, they're people. They're just organized in a different way. People who dispute this do so are being obtuse for partisan political purposes or are just morons or both.
Fellow republicans I am in a pickle.
My Indian UK husband and I have a fantatic relationship.
I enjoy joking that I am much better than him because I am white and American. I tell him he is third world and sub human and a brownie. Even though he is very high in the Indian Caste System.
But now that the U.S. has been downgraded to AA he is razzing me about our rating.
How do I react?
Fantastic.
My relationships have always been with brownies or third worlders because I need to be most important, idolized and all powerful. That's just how the relationship thing works with me. None of this 50/50 crap.
Now I feel like I am losing my leverage and this is quite devastating. All because of the S&P.
I also prefer Brownie skin.
I just like it better than white.
For example, when traveling through Urban as well as Rural parts of India many times I would say, "excuse me whitey American, superior person coming through" and the crowd would part like Moses in the bible parting some Seamen.
But corporations are legal persons. How else can they pay taxes?
Carol Herman, you give me hallucinogenic flashbacks. Sometimes I see the text changing colors and fonts as I'm reading what you've written. It's really cool.
"Now I feel like I am losing my leverage and this is quite devastating."
Wait till your relationships are with much younger guys, as it sounds like you will require. That's gonna be devastating. I expect you will be brought down by your mirror.
My husband is 5 years younger than me.
Is that a huge difference?
Everyone says I look much younger and he looks older though thank god.
But for the most part, yes, they have been younger than me.
I would say by about 5-10 years.
But the one I am with now is forever. It has been three years now.
The others were 1 month, max.
Tits.
Clouds.
He phrased it badly, but the underlying point that corporations are made up entirely of people is something folks often forget.
You can't ban Microsoft from influencing elections. You can only ban people who work for Microsoft from exercising their right to freedom of speech.
@DBQ: One year I wanted to give my wife her own corporation for her birthday--fill out the form and send $100 to the Secretary of State is all* you need in Washington State, which is one of the easiest states.
*About that all. I ended up not doing it. If you set up a corporation without the advice of a lawyer you can leave yourself open later for a fraud charge or lawsuit. You can't just make one for fun now and turn it into a real company later. So even though Washington is one of the easiest states in which to incorporate it is still something you shouldn't do without legal advice. Which is why we can't have nice things.
@Revenant: You can't ban Microsoft from influencing elections. You can only ban people who work for Microsoft from exercising their right to freedom of speech.
True. But unions, unlike corporations, can donate in their own right as well as by bundling members.
Mitt did ok, I think, but when he was asked "Whose pockets?" (do corporate profits go to), he might have said "workers' pension plans."
The self incorporation on the Secretary of State website is quick and easy. So many computer learned folks do their own leaving out a fee to an attorney.
But they do at least need a CPA's advice to start keeping records and filing tax returns. The New and Improved Collection Agency called the IRS is now assessing $1500 penalties for non-filing of timely corporate returns even if you file later after a notice and show no income and no tax due because the Charter was never used.
The government is not fair and only exists to create excuses to get money from you.
If you want fair dealing. then you need to do business with non-monopoly institutions.
Government IS the original monopoly ever designed.
Government IS the original monopoly ever designed.
It's certainly the one that's the most effective at preventing the entry of competitors.
I thought corporations were run by foreign space people. Now I have knowledge.
Seriously, this is a great line. He's going to destroy any anti-corporation talk with this line.
What is it with activists who go to a campaign stop and claim that the candidate is there to hear them?
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