This is the kind of thing that Barack Obama might have said before he became President. (Or do we only imagine that he used to say things like that?) A great benefit to having Obama as President is that he is not available to say things like that and very few mainstream Democrats or liberals feel tempted to say things like that.
More from Chomsky:
Anti-American fervor is already very high in Pakistan, and these events are likely to exacerbate it. The decision to dump the body at sea is already, predictably, provoking both anger and skepticism in much of the Muslim world.Very, very angry people get even angrier. Chomsky invites you to worry about that. Didn't the decision to give bin Laden a religious burial and not to show the photographs make those angry people like us more? No, apparently, Chomsky has a line to Pakistan and he knows those people are angry and getting angrier all the time.
Speaking of angry, Chomsky proceeds to interpret the "Bush Doctrine" as Bush calling for his own assassination. He wonders how we'd "be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic." The rant continues with material about Nazis and so forth.
It's got to hurt to be so marginalized now that Obama is President.
ADDED: I see some boring bloggers linking here and writing witless attacks on me. May I recommend that you read this post from April 4th and put some effort into understanding The Mind of Althouse before you wallow in your shallowness any longer? I know you won't, but I just felt like saying that.
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114 comments:
The real problem is that our idiot Vice President didn't care enough about the welfare of our military to keep his damn mouth shut about who conducted this operation, and our damn idiot president couldn't keep his administration from trying to act macho by talking about their insider info about this raid.
They made it sound like they send SEALs in merely to kill, which is just not likely. Sure, that makes them sound badass, but if a SEAL is captured, our enemies will claim the Geneva Conventions do not apply to SEALs anymore.
that's just a fact.
Next time, Obama, try taking care of the military's interests too. Those guy took care of you, didn't they? Their skill gave you your greatest accomplishment, but you couldn't let the Pentagon handle the press conference, could you?
Nope.
Bush had his act together in ways this administration isn't even trying. I don't know that Mccain would have handled this any better than Obama. In fact, I doubt he would have.
Chomsky and Hawkings seem to be the current tag-team proving that one can be brilliant in a technical field while, well, something else again when indulging one's opinions on issues (politics, religion) outside that field.
Sad.
I'm always hearing about how we have to be careful not to bruise the sensibilities of muslims and offend them.
I'd like to know when we can expect muslims to start being concerned about offending us?
We daren't publish a cartoon that might offend some sensitive muslim, but they go ahead and saw off the heads of innocent western civilians on camera, butcher hundreds of schoolchildren on their first day of elementary school (Beslan), and a whole string of other atrocities of every kind going back at least as far as murdering athletes at the Olympics in 1972...and yet the Chomsky types never seem too concerned with those things. OUR sense of being offended or threatened is always to be downplayed and, ultimately, blamed on us. Meanwhile we tippie-toe around these savages who follow a 7th century cult leader's orders to subjugate the world in his name.
When do we wake up to how ridiculous and suicidal this is?
There are many Latins who will do to war criminal Kissinger what Obama did to Osama once we get the chance. Amerikans are responsible for more torture and death of civilians, certainly in Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia and Uruguay, not to mention Central America, than Osama ever was. Someday will be paybackday for those who wrap themselves in the Amerikan flag.
I don't think there is a benefit to having Obama for president. He deliberately undermined his successor, making his job harder and now he is out there playing the part of the CinC like they lying hypocrite he is.
So, I suppose that following this logic we should elect that nut case Ron Paul because once he gets in the big bad libertarian movement will be marginalized when he not only does not abolish the Fed, but expands its powers. Sure, he is a loon, but who cares about that?
People in Pakistan (and in Arab cultures) respect strength and have contempt for weakness. Worrying about how angry Pakis get is a weakness.
I believe we were attacked on 9/11 because OBL didn't think we'd respond like we did, given our meek responses to the USS Cole, Somalia, and the embassy bombings in Africa.
They should be worried about our anger. That's what keeps us safe.
"There are many Latins who will do to war criminal Kissinger what Obama did to Osama once we get the chance"
Why do ancient Romans care about Kissinger?
jimbino:
Surely you jest. I mean really.
The Obama in your mind must be a very odd character. Where do you get the idea that he has ever thought like Noam Chomsky? The man thinks like a Constitutional law teacher-- he believes that Congress should take policy initiatives, for example-- a very conservative notion in the 21st century.
Chomsky is a clear-eyed cat, which makes him pretty radical. Obama is pragmatic, careful and conservative. The two men have very little in common that I can see.
We arrested who we could when the Twin towers were first attacked in 1993 IIRC. Anything less than cutting those people into little pieces was seen as a weakness.
It is an eternal mystery why anyone gives Chomsky an audience. It is the greatest pathology of our time that people like him are taken seriously. In the future this phenomenon will be looked upon in the same manner self-flagellation is looked upon now. I guess there is nothing new under the sun.
It is well past time to marginalize this vile crank. I would urge Althouse not to waste her reader's time with him. Quoting Chomsky on a political blog is about as useful as asking Forrest Gump to solve a second order differential equation for you. It might be amusing to watch but it is ultimately pointless.
As others have already said, if this action was against the law, the problem is with the law.
"Surely you jest. I mean really."
No, he doesn't. Like a herpes outbreak, he's been popping up occasionally for years, replacing the "c" in "America" with a "k". It must be some special Latin thing.
Someday will be paybackday for those who wrap themselves in the Amerikan flag.
"As soon as we can buy some shoes, we will attack those Amerikans"
Bush had his act together in ways this administration isn't even trying. I don't know that Mccain would have handled this any better than Obama. In fact, I doubt he would have.
Except that McCain grew up in the military, spent 20+ years in active service, rising to the level where he was offered flag rank, etc. And, so, I think that he might have been much less ready to divulge operational information, if it meant potentially endangering the people under him in the chain of command.
Remember, Joe Biden or Barack Obama don't have a grandfather who was relieved of command of his task force because he lost ships and men to a typhoon, pushing too aggressively, and cutting things too close. I think from what McCain (III) has written that has hung over the younger John McCains ever since then.
While we're on the topic, it's worth revisiting the deplorable dive-bombing of the suspected Japanese carrier fleet at Midway-- a precipitous act of outrageous violence whose indecency is, we can only hope, a constant theme for Mr. Chomsky's lectures.
Horrific acts of violence can never be justified-- except as first strikes against Imperial-Zionist oppressors by righteous People of Color.
"It is an eternal mystery why anyone gives Chomsky an audience."
The perpetually aggrieved are a small but eager marketing niche. Chomsky found a lucrative sideline for himself. You can't move a lot of books if you only write about "deep structure".
Do not think that the SEALs came to Abbotabad in violation of international law.
The raid was not to break the law, but to fulfill it.
"Horrific acts of violence can never be justified-- except as first strikes against Imperial-Zionist oppressors by righteous People of Color."
Why is it usually People of Pallor like Chomsky who seem to do most of the talking?
"The raid was not to break the law, but to fulfill it."
Jesus'll get you for that, Jason.
I'm loving this shit.
The always unmentioned subtext is how this leads to the assimilation of blacks into the American political mainstream.
Blacks are no longer the outsiders dissenting again evil American imperialism. They are the American imperialists!
It's amazing, isn't it, the ability of American democracy to co-opt outsider political groups, give them some skin in the game and end their demands for special treatment?
So, when do we dump the racial quotas? Blacks aren't the oppressed. They're the oppressors.
If Chomsky et al are so concerned with stirring the bee's nest, why don't he show some respect to his political opponents here in America?
Another thing about the middle eastern mind, is that it is often much more tribal than national. They understand the concept of revenge, and revenge killing.
Many of the others killed by us in this war were just there. But with OBL, it was personal and tribal, at least from their point of view. He reached out and killed 3,000+ of us in our homeland. And, successfully going into his home and reciprocating is something that they would be proud to have done, if it had involved them and someone attacking their family or tribe.
That we had the patience to follow the leads, and wait until everything aligned, just makes the revenge even sweeter from their point of view.
I, along with most Americans I suspect, regret to some extent the very few people who died as collateral damage, but never that our people killed OBL. It was our due. He signed his own death warrant when he had his people attack and kill so many Americans. And, then we did the right thing and gave him an Islamic funeral.
"I stress 'suspects.'"
You have to actually work at being that obtuse.
A great benefit to having Obama as President is that he is not available to say things like that and very few mainstream Democrats or liberals feel tempted to say things like that.
Similarly, a great benefit to making my monthly protection payments is that nobody threatens to burn down my store.
The Democrats' implicit platform: Nice little national-security establishment you got there. Be a shame if anything happened to it.
By contrast to the mainline Dems, Chomsky is just an arsonist.
"A great benefit to having Obama as President is that he is not available to say things like that and very few mainstream Democrats or liberals feel tempted to say things like that."
And that is worth death panels and debasement of our currency? I strenuously disagree.
jimbino:
Well just in case you are serious, it is worth noting that Americans are not like the dogs that Bolivians like to string up and use for target practice. We can and do shoot back.
That is not a threat, it is just an observation. And I have always wondered, if Latins hate this country so much...why do we have to build walls to keep them from sneaking in for the opportunity to clean motel rooms and pick lettuce? Kind of makes you wonder what it must be like where they come from. Just sayin...
The man thinks like a Constitutional law teacher-- he believes that Congress should take policy initiatives, for example-- a very conservative notion in the 21st century.
Huh ?
How about EPA regulations in defiance of Congress, plus recess appointments taking over the NLRB and attacking Boeing ?
"It's got to hurt to be so marginalized now that Obama is President."
Love that...
The Obama in your mind must be a very odd character. Where do you get the idea that he has ever thought like Noam Chomsky?
Perhaps from his relationships with Chomskyite fellow travellers like Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright. Birds of a feather and all that.
Well, Bill, what Obama and Chomsky have in common is that throughout their careers, both have reduced America to its shortcomings and pathologies. Some of those shortcomings and pathologies are real. But others they must exaggerate or invent entirely. They both see America as an essentially malevolent force in the world. Obama may temper his language sometimes now that he is president and wants a second term. But his view of America is probably 90% congruent with Chomsky's.
Chomsky says at the end of his little tirade that we "have a lot to think about." But he doesn't need anything to think about. he already has his views in place and simply uses them to filter any event that happens. So does Obama.
For Palladium:
"Latin" used as a noun, refers to Latinos or Latinas, residents of Latin Amerika.
Amerika is the title of a book by Kafka. Read it, The Trial and The Castle; you may get an education.
"Kind of makes you wonder what it must be like where they come from. Just sayin..."
Don't you understand, those places are shit-holes because of AmeriKKKa! If it weren't for us, they'd be flying kites and sipping organic mate and humming sonatas while strolling down carpeted boulevards.
Same with the Middle East. It's all our fault!
"For Palladium:"
Palldian. Palladium is a platinum-group metal which, incidentally, isn't found in Latin AmeriKKKa, but if it was we in the evil US would probably steal it!
"Amerika is the title of a book by Kafka."
Oh, so you're referring to a book rather than the United States. But why has a Kafka book caused our southern neighbors so much grief? Hmm...
All right, I'm gonna guess the ending.
The Navy Seals created a hole in the wall, to get in. (Just in case you were thinking they've been trained to be very polite. To walk in via the alley to the front door. And, to purposefully "knock."
"Knock, knock" ... with a following tag line.
How fast were they in? Very. Very. And, they took the muzzles off the dogs snouts. So the dogs also starting barking. Indoors. This must have made Osama, and others, just about crap in their pants!
Osama, at the end, got to experience the terror that must have been on the victims inside the planes that got hijacked. No. I'm not kidding!
Separate that the Pakistanis, when they do arrive, have to deal with the living, inside, with arms tied up. And, of course the dead. Who needed some "photo op" criteria to be met. Since the photos were gonna be sold for profit to Reuter's.
A kid's green water pistol was found as a prop. And, the dead bodies were turned face up to the cameras. Not little hand held video-phones, either.
Yes, there were enough Seals in the room for one to get behind him. And, to keep his Kalashikov out of reach. While he also fired the first shot.
Since there is a wounded female, ostensibly a "wife," and not the goat. And, with the dogs barking and lunging ferociously. Bin Laden's "female" got it in the calf of her leg. (Since she didn't bleed to death waiting to go to some Pakistani crap hole of a hospital, the wound was done to stop her progress. While at about the same time, from the front. Bin Laden got a "double tap." Too bad we couldn't have tossed him off a plane that hovered over the holes he made where the Twin Towers once stood. But you can't have everything.
Meanwhile, the PR disaster belongs to our golfer in chief.
Jarrett? Boy, are her underpants tied up in knots.
Biden? His mouth flaps. Maybe, he's the "source" of the line that "Obama said." And, then, it turns out no one on board the USS Vinson had a tape measure.
Man, the bullshit that comes with 72 versions.
For a bumper sticker, ahead?
72 Versions.
And, even printed on tee-shirts.
Need I say more?
Great.
I'm covering Noam Chomsky's speech tonight. It's going to be an orgy of America bashing.
Hey! Obama found something even more UNPOPULAR than his "ObummerCare."
Perhaps, you thought he had run short of ideas?
In the grand things, ahead, Chompsky can go "spike a football." Pig skin is pig skin.
Funny that Palendum speaks of Latins "flying kites," since it was Santos DuMont, a Brazilian, who invented and popularized the airplane!
"Do not think that the SEALs came to Abbotabad in violation of international law.
The raid was not to break the law, but to fulfill it."
------------
Chomsky founds his linguistic theory and his politics in a philosophical idealism that is uncompromising. Essentially, he seems to believe there are universal and necessarily true laws that govern our knowledge and ought to govern our actions...and there is a strong rationalist/idealist strain in all of his thought. Thus, he still pens his screeds condemning all manner of injustice as he sees it.
Chomsky never really supported communism, socialism or their earthly regimes as I understand it. Mostly, he retreats to his anarchism or anarcho-syndicalism when pressed which offers no solution, nor any practical political philosophy here on earth. He really admitting other philosophical points of view.
This may help explain his appeal to the French intelligentsia for example, other Continental/Rationalist thinkers, Leftists and similar idealists in America, and of course all manner of thuggish dictators desperate for some anti-imperialist crumbs...
Though perhaps the point here was to associate Chomsky with Obama. Obama does seem to believe that the arc of history bends toward 'justice', that humanitarian/universalist ideals should guide our foreign policy, and that the 'Science" is settled and it is only a matter of policy and politics to do what is assumed to be right for all (politicizing science, growing government, bending America toward these ideals...)
Assassination -- yes or no? Wrong question. We need to start with uncovering the real Osama.
How is it that the "leader" of the world's baddest terrorist organization lived in total isolation and had but three AK-47s and two pistols with which to defend himself and his family and was hiding 500 Euros to be used as mad money.
Angelo M. Codevilla [yes, the same guy who wrote "Americas Ruling Class -- and the Perils of Revolution"] wrote a treatise entitled "Osama bin Elvis" which covers, among other things, the artificial creation of a world terrorist leader by none other than the CIA.
Read about it here.
Palladian:
Of course they are shit holes because of us gringos..no doubt. After all when the Spaniards first came to this hemisphere they made friends with the natives and would never have considered forcing them to live in poverty in feudal like culture based on corruption and a rigid class system.
It is all about us, it has nothing to do with them, poor lambs.
Actually it was Solomon Andrews, an Amerikkkkkanm, who "invented" directional human flight, the concept that led to the airplane (which was first built and successfully tested by Amerikkkkkans Wilbur and Orville Wright). While Santos-Dumont was an early pioneer in aviation, he did not "invent" the airplane.
I can remember when Chomsky thought the Khmer Rouge were real heroes...and then came the Killing Fields and the little commie just moved onto the next mass murdering totalitarian to idolize and suck up to. I have often wondered why he did not defect to some worker's paradise like Cuba years ago.
Oh come on, jimbino. Everybody knows that Leonardo invented the airplane. Plus, he knew real Latin, not that weird Portuguese derivative.
"...the artificial creation of a world terrorist leader by none other than the CIA."
If Osama bin Laden was some sort of life-like cyborg artificially created by the CIA, then the SeALs deactivating him couldn't be a violation of "International Law". So we're good, then!
I love falling down the rabbit hole of Trutherism. Anything is possible down here!
"I have often wondered why he did not defect to some worker's paradise like Cuba years ago."
Cambridge has better food.
One of the nicest, prettiest girls I've ever known was a Chomsky devotee.
It never made any sense to me. Why couldn't she see what a douchebag he is? She was so nice and pretty, after all.
Yes, the food is better in Cambridge and no doubt so is everything else. Chomsky is the kind of guy who thinks everyone else should live in a communist country..he will just continue to suffer on in this land of imperialist war mongers..
It is interesting that Chomsky and Ron Paul have so much in common when it comes to foreign policy. Extremes meet.
CONNECTIONS! DISCOVER THE NETWORK:
Here's Audrey Tomason speaking before and introducing Noam Chomsky in 1997. And here's Audrey Tomason lurking at the back of the situation room in the White House, watching INTERNATIONAL LAW be violated!
IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW.
Jimbino: The K in Amerika tells us immediately that you are a thoughtful intellectual with an open mind. It is a very cool way to telegraph to all exactly where you stand on every single topic from raising cattle to tax rates. If your posts simply say Amerika there is no need to write further.
Oh, you will never get the chance. even if you come to actually understand Kafka.
PS: You could give modern "latins" a hundred years and a billion dollars and they could not build a bicycle much less an airplane. But thank you for reminding us.
"It is interesting that Chomsky and Ron Paul have so much in common when it comes to foreign policy. Extremes meet."
Maybe they're the same person!
Chomsky didn't get the memo that, now that we have one of the useful idiots in the White House, he's supposed to be a cheerleader.
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
PS Good VDH piece (off Insta) about Little Zero's towering hypoctrisy (if you needed to be reminded) regarding how we got here.
PPS I don't doubt McCain would have maintained OPSEC unlike Halo Joe.
So Obama has lost Chomsky.
I suppose that is a plus for Obama.
Palladian:
My God, that is scary.
Kensington, you slept with her anyway, didn't you?
"My God, that is scary."
Which? My shocking exposé of Audrey Tomason or the marginal but weird similarity between Noam and Ron? Or both? Frankly, everything in here is scary today...
"Bush had his act together in ways this administration isn't even trying." (sic)
Particularly when he went into Iraq and found all those WMDs.
"One of the nicest, prettiest girls I've ever known was a Chomsky devotee.
It never made any sense to me..."
It's because you never read his lesser known works...
Michael,
Used to be that you could buy off dictators in Latin America for a billion dollars. Now, with the dollar at all-time lows, it would cost you 3 billion dollars, except that their democracies are thumbing their noses at world-interventionist USSA from Venezuela to Brazil and Argentina.
jimbino whined: Amerikans are responsible for more torture and death of civilians, certainly in Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Bolivia and Uruguay, not to mention Central America, than Osama ever was.
You need to brush up on critical thinking and elementary logic, Dude. The analogy doesn't work.
Palladian:
Back in the olden days,it would be impossible for a leftist like Audrey Thomason [I wondered what qualifications she got at Tufts] to be employed by the National Security Council and working in the White House.
Now it's sad, frightening and entirely predicable. Voters, in 2012, must judge President Obama by who he hires not what he reads off his teleprompter.
Bruce Hayden - "Except that McCain grew up in the military, spent 20+ years in active service, rising to the level where he was offered flag rank, etc"
-------------
McCain was NOT offered flag rank. Performance and character issues prevented his advancement.
As his peers tell it, he was in danger of not even making Commander from poor performance reviews. His Dad happened to be a supporter of Zumwalt's & Moorer's efforts to purge "promotion nepotism" out of the Navy, which put McCain Sr in a dicey spot about Jr and his lost jets.
But that changed when shot down, and a POW, he got an automatic "bump" in rank from a law Congress passed over military opposition that a POW regardless of quals got an automatic pass to the next highest promotion grade. Then released, McCain got the POW-driven plum assignment of Senate Laiason Officer, and got Captain rank because he did a decent job in the Navy's eyes but also because he got a coterie of powerful Senators in his camp.
McCain would have probably gone in like Obama did. But since McCain wanted a major war with Iran, he might have even gotten more cooperation Iran's great enemy the Pakis than Obama did - if a full Iran-USA was underway.
But keep in mind McCain was used as the chief mouthpiece of the NY Times to undercut Bush on interrogations, GITMO. The 1st never ever worked, McCain asserted..not so accurately claiming his own Hallowed POW years "proved that". And "we should never use suspect, poisoned info from interrogation because - you can easily lie.."
The 2nd, GITMO, fell into a broad bunch of things McCain said condemned Bush, as "stains on McCain's personal honor".
So had McCain been elected, maybe the Pakis would have given up Binnie as a reward for a major war with Iran...but maybe Mccain would have been serious and told CIA "Not to use the poisioned fruit of interrogations since you can easily be duped by the likes of me...use only info from people you have won the trust and friendship of (Like Curveball and his full cooperation on the vast WMD problem he knew all the details of, in Iraq).
Once upon a time, there was a king who fancied himself the smartest man in the world. His courtiers, of course, wouldn't know smart from horse shit, and so gladly went along. Inexplicably, the king floundered, and became famous for his very lame ass. His neighbor kings laughed. Furious the lame ass king mailed back busts, and iPods of his speeches.
The king covered his very lame ass by blaming all his problems on the previous king, who after all was a very dumb king--ask any courtier.
Oddly, King Lame Ass, as he came to be known, religiously copied the policies of his predecessor, King Dumb Ass, as the lame one's sycophamts called him.
And lo, King Lame Ass stumbled on a great success. For you see, King Dumb Ass favored killing his enemies while King Lame Ass favored kissing their--well you know.
It came to pass that King Lame Ass had a vey bad man killed, who coincidentally smelled like a goat's ass, and so it came to pass that King Dumb Ass was revered throughout the land as King Lame Ass' savior. Not.
jimbino wrote: ... it was Santos DuMont, a Brazilian, who invented and popularized the airplane!
This is, of course, nonsense. Even if it weren't, DuMont moved to France as a teen ager and was educated there, not in Brazil. His achievements did not emanate from Latin-American culture.
I always hate the subtle racism of the left: 'oh no, musn't do anything to make these tender brown people angry.'
There's no allowance for moral agency or rational thinking: 'they're just wild beasts, so let's tread softly and speak in calm, soothing tones.' It's just the flip-side of right-wing racism, except that the right-wingers have better instincts about how to handle wild animals.
How about this thinking instead: Maybe other people should be cautious about how angry Americans can get. We too feel rage when you kill our innocents, and we've got more guns, bigger guns, and nukes to boot. I love the story of how Bush handled Pakistan after 9/11: no equivocation, cooperate or we will bomb you back to the stone age. And damn skippy Musharraf complied.
Last thought: Chomsky's totally insular and solipsistic bullshit is revealed in his analogy about Iraqi commandos killing Bush. He assumes we would be appalled at the "crime," but the reality is that most Americans would be enraged because it would be a humiliating defeat in war. There would be no aggrieved calls to the UN Human Rights Commission or appointment of a special prosecutor. No, we'd be gearing up for total war and vengeance would not be a dirty word.
Chomsky has his alternate reality that only sees a crime committed on 9/11, maybe flying without an FAA pilots license, by dead men that may have been friends of that nice Mr. Osama Bin Laden. Therefore his measured response is right again. But if there was an act of war following a declaration of war and many prior attacks by a military force commanded by Bin Laden, then Chomsky is no better than a modern Tokyo Rose.
Chomsky may be an obnoxious out of touch liberal, but it is he among the liberals who is adoping the principled position here.
Obama and his liberal friends for years have lectured us on the evils of dunking a terrorist in water to secure information to try protect the lives of innocent people. Now, Obama and his liberals are rejoicing over shooting in the head and killing an unarmed and non-dangerous terrorist. The hypocrisy is obvious.
I almost never agree with Glenn Greenwald, he is dead on this time:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/05/06/bin_laden/index.html
My own opinion is that I understand there is an interesting justification in terms of the importance of showing raw power to terrorists and Arabs in general, but overall I have a hard time thinking the killing was justified over taking him prisoner. It might have even been a benefit - would could have "tortured" him and secured valuable information. In fact, we should have snatched him, not told anyone, tortured him, and taken time to review the evidences seized at his place, instead of bragging.
The US Navy and its Seal Teams are not law officers serving a community. That is the UN's most fervent wish for them. But they were soldiers tasked to raid an enemy headquarters in the dark inside a hostile territory and do the most damage possible. If anyone seriously wanted legal procedures, then have the Secretary of State should have negotiated with Pakistan about that.
Noam Chomsky is very bad person, and I am glad he seems to have mostly disappeared. But, Ann, I think the simple answer to your question, do we only imagine he used to say things like that, is yes. Here is an Aug. 2007 Reuters piece:
Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government...
"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said. (http://tinyurl.com/3dx87gb)
Now he doesn't say he would kill him, but it was quite clear that he was making the case he would not be led by legalistic concerns in going after OBL.
Oh, and yes, I am a first time commenter. Sorry to come in on such a negative note... but I don't think there is any evidence that Obama thinks at all like Chomsky (thank goodness).
Chomsky is why you study math and hard science at MIT, not "philosophy". My dog has a higher IQ than that man.
Chomsky is not a gadfly. He is a bigot. He comes from a long line of left wing bigots who have never been able to see the forest for the trees, and the victims for the oppressors. The true victim in that raid was Osama's teen bride. Imagine: She was given to Osama as a party favor and lived out her life in two little rooms. I presume that she had an acute awareness that at any moment her young life, cramped as it was, could be terminated by a drone strike. She was a poor wretched creature, and the fact that she was enamored of Bin Laden only speaks to how stunted and deformed her existence was....Chomsky surveys the Osama compound and determines that Osama was the victim. His view of the world is as deficient and distorted as that of Osama's bride.
"Kensington, you slept with her anyway, didn't you?"
I didn't. But I would have.
jimbino
Kissinger is almost 88 years old -
You'd better get krackin'.
Obama and his liberal friends for years have lectured us on the evils of dunking a terrorist in water.
They dunked Osama like a lead teabag.
"the unarmed victim"?
Victim? Seriously? Leave it to Chomsky to describe the mastermind of 9/11 and so much more as a "victim".
Personally, I don't give a rat's ass whether the orders were to kill on sight or not. I don't give a rat's ass what the United Nations has to say (about anything -- EVER). Bin Laden is swimming with the fishes. That's where he belongs. Good freaking riddance.
Thank you, Seal Team Six!
since it was Santos DuMont, a Brazilian, who invented and popularized the airplane!
Waxing. I see you're good at that.
The decision to dump the body at sea is already, predictably, provoking both anger and skepticism in much of the Muslim world.Very, very angry people get even angrier.
I'm confused. I thought Osama had nothin' to do with the Religion of Peace, no ma'am, no how, and did not represent anybody but a tiny minority of misguided fanatical misinterpreters of Islam, and only an Islamophobe would even dream of associating Islam and bin Laden in any way, shape, or form. Obviously, Mr. Chomsky is terribly misinformed or a terrible bigot.
Palladian: No, he doesn't. Like a herpes outbreak, he's been popping up occasionally for years, replacing the "c" in "America" with a "k". It must be some special Latin thing.
Is this the same "jimbino" as the crank of that name with the bizarre animus against the National Parks? (Yogi Bear is racist, or something.)
As someone wiser than me once said:
If this is in conflict with international law, then something is wrong with international law
After all these years people still pay attention to Chomsky?
Mutaman:
Ahh, I bet it has been a day and a half since I heard the canard about Bush and the wmd...I used to think that if the left was just informed on this issue they would stop with that crap..but no, it has nothing to do with being informed, they are just dishonest.
For one thing, Bush did find some wmd, for another thing if Clinton had put as much effort into getting the intel right as he did into getting Monica to suck his wanker maybe we would have been better informed. If the UN had done a better job of getting its story straight on WMD instead of just trying to find ways to make money off of the food for oil program maybe we would have had better information too.
This is the thing about you guys, you want all the glory when it goes well, but when something goes wrong you don't have the moral fortitude to own up to it.
jimbino:
If we bought off any dictators in your part of the world we got the sh*t end of the stick in that deal.
Why don't you grow up and take some responsibility for yourself instead of just blaming others for your dysfunctional culture and political system.
I love the victory lap by Obama who used intelligence gathered from "enhanced interrogation" (nee, torture) to send an assassination squad into a sovereign country that poses no imminent threat to America to blow up a home while shooting everyone inside.
Spike that football Barry!!!
Mutaman said...
Particularly when he went into Iraq and found all those WMDs.
Huh?
Coherence much?
The man thinks like a Constitutional law teacher-- he believes that Congress should take policy initiatives, for example--
Laugh out loud funny.
Is that why he hired Czars?
Is that why he instructed the EPA to limit green house gases?
You are delusional.
"the unarmed victim"?
Hahaha, pass the popcorn, Noam is just getting warmed up!
Radicals are right about the American empire. We are one. We fight imperial wars. We have an elite.
They're just irredeemably wrong about our enemies. They're much worse than we are. Empires, in and of themselves, can be good or bad. America's, historically, is remarkably mild.
It's hard to say the same of mass-murdering terrorists or fascist dictatorships. If the radicals had had their way, we'd be speaking Russian. Or German, if we'd listened to their spiritual ancestors in the 1930s.
Anyone who was an apologist for the USSR but wants to condemn the US for being an empire deserves no consideration whatsoever.
Human history is the story of 40 or 50 empires. The US is one of them. That's a good thing, compared to the alternatives. The radicals' refusal to address the reality of anti-American reaction (fascism, terrorism, and mass murder) is why no one listens to them.
VDH on the First Person Presidency...
In sum, Senator Obama opposed tribunals, renditions, Guantanamo, preventive detention, Predator-drone attacks, the Iraq War, wiretaps, and intercepts — before President Obama either continued or expanded nearly all of them, in addition to embracing targeted assassinations, new body scanning and patdowns at airports, and a third preemptive war against an oil-exporting Arab Muslim nation — this one including NATO efforts to kill the Qaddafi family.
You poor, poor, Obama voting rubes...
Morales said America must go down. So when we are done in sandland who is first Chaves or Morales.
Plus we can kick Iran and Hezbollah out.
The other day when Obama spoke to the troops, directly praising them for liberating Iraq...it was like I was listening to a Republican. Suddenly, this liberal yap dog, who seemed to take issue with every decision President Bush ever made, is sounding like a guy who thought it was the right thing to do all along.
And how surprising is it that his base thinks he's Jack Bauer now, and a good share of them are just FINE with it?
Unreal.
Can you imagine if President Bush had been the one to green-light this mission to kill OBL? (I personally would have been fine with it, as I am with Obama having done it.) They'd never stop howling.
Who cares about Chomsky- who has been irrelevant for decades.
it was Santos DuMont, a Brazilian, who invented and popularized the airplane!
But it was Margaret DuMont, an American, who invented the Brazilian. She thought it would be easier to wipe off the grease stain from Groucho's mustasche.
Go easy on Chomsky. Mental illness is no laughing matter, and juvenile onset dementia is debilitating.
It's gotta hurt Obama that his rhetoric was aligned with this utter moron and anti American douche bag so closely when running for president.
Althouse has a really funny rationale for picking president. Usually they get dinger for things they say but end up reneging on. Althouse recognizes that Chomsky is a marginalized figure yet votes for the guy who utters the most chomskyite rhetoric on the assumption that he will not do what he says and will continue Bush's anti terror programs. First off, the guy has tried to enact his liberal agenda (I.e. Promising to close Gitmo etc.) only reality keeps smacking him in the head so that he' s inevitably driven towards Bush's policies.
Yet althouse faults McCain for not adequately defending conservative principles. It sounds like she voted for Obama on the grounds that he was a naive liar.
If Chomsky is her idea of a crack pot, then the person espousing similar ideas is also a crackpot.
Noam Chomsky: "It’s increasingly clear that the operation was a planned assassination, multiply violating elementary norms of international law."
Chomsky is right, Osama was assassinated. You don't kill the mother lode of intelligence about Islamic terrorism without first desperately trying to capture him.
Was this killing a violation of international law? Should we care? I don't but am interested in arguments explaining why we should permit international law to constrain us in this area.
Chomsky is an idealist who sticks to his principles no matter the political party of the president, unlike the vast majority of lefties (especially Obama).
That Obama is given a pass for assassinating Osama (a treasure trove of intelligence) rather than trying to capture Osama is discouraging and puzzling. Lefties who claim to be all for trials for captured terrorists when a Republican is president are silent or approving now that Obama is assassinating these terrorists.
BTW, it is urgent to extract info from these high level terrorists as soon as possible after they are captured. You want to take action against targets identified through interrogation before those targets learn that their cover is blown and hide. The longer it takes to extract info in interrogation, the less actionable that info is.
Anglelyne,
Actually, I believe he called Yogi Bear a 'rakist'.
Chomsky is an idealist who sticks to his principles no matter the political party of the president, unlike the vast majority of lefties (especially Obama).
Chomsky an idealist? Only if we expand the word to include people whose "ideals" are driven by a raw hatred of everything American.
Chomsky.
First I lol'd then I serious'd. Then I lol'd again.
Damn, I hate these long comment threads. How do I easily find the liberals?
Chomsky is NOT an idealist. He opposes anything the US does, then finds a reason. There aren't really that many consistent principles to be found in his writing other than that.
Steve: BTW, it is urgent to extract info from these high level terrorists as soon as possible after they are captured. You want to take action against targets identified through interrogation before those targets learn that their cover is blown and hide. The longer it takes to extract info in interrogation, the less actionable that info is.
Yeah, that's the problem I have with all this information they've been laying on the media about the entire thing, particularly the "mother lode" of intelligence they say they've retrieved. Why not use it first, before tipping their hand?
We can wait to hear about it...but apparently Obama can't wait to get his poll numbers up.
I will give Chomsky credit for one thing -- he's consistent.
E.M. Davis said...
I will give Chomsky credit for one thing -- he's consistent.
Yep, there is no more consistent windbag than an old windbag
I'm glad to see by long-standing habit of disregarding every single word that comes out of Noam Chomsky's mouth is continuing to pay off.
Lombardi Chick,
They may have very little intelligence from OBL. But they were following his courier for months and months. That means they probably have parts of the al Qaeda network tagged.
Beating the bushes to see what flies out isn't really a bad plan. The hope is that the guys smart enough to bunker down when Osama was killed will be spooked enough to move if they believe we know about their plan.
Chomsky will never be entirely marginalized so long as God keeps making freshmen.
"A great benefit to having Obama as President is that he is not available to say things like that and very few mainstream Democrats or liberals feel tempted to say things like that."
So we should have Democrats as President because only then will they stop attacking America? I suspect if we instead publicized their willingness to do so their ability to damage America would be greatly lessened.
After days of confusion, we now find out that not only did Obama make the decision to raid Pakistan, but he flew the helicopter, shot everybody in the compound, personally ripped the heart out of bin Laden with his bare hands, carried the dead body of bin Laden in one arm while he first ran then swam to the USS Carl Vinson, and finally personally prepared the body for burial at sea drawing on his boyhood experience in a Muslim country. And all of this while getting in 9 holes of golf.
Such clarity is rarely available, so this should make Noam Chomsky's task of finding justice much easier.
Criticism is always a necessity on this board. It is disheartening. Happy Mothers Day.
Althouse wrote:
This is the kind of thing that Barack Obama might have said before he became President. (Or do we only imagine that he used to say things like that?) A great benefit to having Obama as President is that he is not available to say things like that and very few mainstream Democrats or liberals feel tempted to say things like that.
So under this assumption we should never have a republican president. If we do, democrats and libs will say things like Noam Chomsky and attempt to derail all our efforts overseas. But if they take power they will continue said programs half heartedly (notice, STILL no action on Iran or Syria) and only the craziest of liberals will be honest.
So we should vote for unprincipled liars who have no problem undermining wars for purely partisan reasons.
Sorry, I'll vote for people who are principled in their stances on fighting wars. Those others, are enemies. Like I would vote for the War is Lost party on the assumption that they don't really mean it and will carry on said policies becuase they are the rigth policies. If they are the right policies, then those undermining them to get elected are in fact THE ENEMY.
ANd in the meantime, to get that unprincipled support of policies that we all recognize are necessary we have to live with liberal economic policies that put our country into debt like never before. After 3 years, we're still at 9% unemployment.
And as if, any republican when faced with a report from the CIA that we found Osama wouldn't have, IN A HEARTBEAT, took the shot to remove him.
This is the kind of thing that Barack Obama might have said before he became President
Proof?
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