"... is due to the fact that support for every kind of militant -- whether al-Qaida, whether Taliban, Jihadi -- that has gone down. It doesn't mean that the people of Pakistan are now supporting the U.S. There's still a very strong anti-U.S. sentiment in Pakistan."
This is a subject I'd like to comment about — the lack of protests over the killing of Osama bin Laden — but I don't want to jinx things. The last time I commented on the lack of protests, all hell broke loose.
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५७ टिप्पण्या:
How many Pakistanis have AQ/Taliban killed in last few years? As well as wife of current leader.
From other articles I read, the bin Ladens were not very friendly neighbors. And they're Arabs.
Yes, we can always count on the Pahkeestahnees to hate our guts.
Good fences did not make good neighbors in this case?
I don't know believe this is correct.
There have been quite a few videos around where you see their angry evil faces, with teeth clenched and fists in the air. And yes, these videos were a result of him being killed.
They do need to bomb that compound ASAP. The place is going to be like some Mother Theresa shrine in a bout 2 days.
I think Pakistan might be a greatly changed place after the great devastation of the floods.
If this operation had happened before that-Pakistan might not have been so reliant for aid.
Pakistanis, especially the elites, tend to look down on Arabs. I think that limits bin Laden's popularity.
sorry about the know.
Pakistan is one of the most evil and backward countries in the world.
Just look what happened to India and Pakistan after Britain left?
India has flourished. Pakistan is a backwater and that is because of their religion.
Maybe all of BHO's bowing and not talking like a cowboy (and, possibly, non-whiteness) means that he gets a little slack as he goes around trying to blow away Muslims, from pirates to dictators/terrorists to terrorists.
Or, more likely, all folks are sick of al-Qaida.
"Support for militants"? Doesn't that mean support for whoever is strong-arming you and your family to do their bidding? If I lived where men want to train my son to be a suicide bomber or to fly planes into tall buildings, I would be watching Iraq with envy. The chance to determine my own destiny! The chance to build a government that would encourage individual effort and reward! Wasn't this a part of why W went to Iraq? To show the mideast that it is possible to have a decent government, under which people would not always be stirred into a frenzy over the imagined danger of Israel? "Nevermind the brutality of your rulers! Look over THERE!" If people have something of their own--private property!--they are much less likely to go to war.
I miss W.
I met a Pakistani grad student at the "dorm" I lived in one year at UW. The first words out of his mouth when we were introduced was, "We have the bomb."
Just wait until after Friday services at the mosques in the Middle East. Then we'll see what the actual response is, whether it is muted or belligerent.
Wait and see what happens Friday after the sermons in the mosques. If demonstrations are going to happen, that is when they will start.
Sorry joschmo (blush)
StrategyPage had a post today mentioning the pounding Al Qaeda is taking in A-stan, so PaulV has a point.
There's also the issue that the Paks are anything but united on supporting the bad guys; the Pushtuns are very pro-Taliban, but many of the rest are eager to see them go.
RuyDiaz said...
Pakistanis, especially the elites, tend to look down on Arabs. I think that limits bin Laden's popularity.
Not sure about that, but, during the height of the campaign in Iraq, the Saudis who made up the bulk of Al Qaeda were despised by the locals, largely because the Saudis looked down on them.
Ann Althouse said...
The last time I commented on the lack of protests, all hell broke loose.
And that was just Madison.
Yeah, Friday prayers.
The Imam who can get the biggest demonstration going with the most media attention will advance his standing among the other Imams.
Lamar63:
Heh. Same!
Joschmo it just goes to show that a great mind and a little mind (and slow typer) can think alike!
OK, this is getting ridiculous.
There are so many conflicting stories about what happened. This is bullshit.
edutcher said.......
so PaulV has a point.
If I only combed my hair I woud not have that point.
At least 50% of the people thought he was dead already and had reconciled that fact.
Half of the people remaining thought that he should be dead, so there's that....
I think the reason is that they're hoping we don't put two and two together. He was living in a million dollar compound three miles from their primary military college, and thirty miles north of their largest city; that's like us finding America's most wanted military runaway in New Windsor NY.
Did this operation have a name? All of the people who've now started writing a book about it will need to know the name at some point.
No one protests on behalf of the weak horse.
"Did this operation have a name?"
Yes, it's called "Obama-Biden '12"
"three miles from their primary military college"
When this started it was 800 feet, then 1000 feet, then 1500 feet, then 4000 feet. Now it's three miles.
When the real story gets out, I bet we'll discover that this place is in Newark.
MarkG said...
Did this operation have a name? All of the people who've now started writing a book about it will need to know the name at some point.
Neptune Spear (sounds like a computer game).
They just don't do codenames like they used to. Everything now sounds like Christina Hendricks had to wiggle past it before it was approved.
NotTypical said - "Did this operation have a name?"
Yes, it's called "Obama-Biden '12"
Ha! That's the best line I've seen all day.
Biggest worry in Pakistan is India! You think doing what they did in old Bombay solved anything? (Mumbai.)
The political map keeps changing.
And, PERHAPS, Obama made his decision to take out Osama ONLY because his "instructions" to get Q-Daffy hasn't been working out well?
By the way, respect for the Navy Seals has just gone WAY UP!
Time to build the missile defense, have a NATO type relationship with India, cut off aid and do a SEAL raid on their Defense Department.
As Sherman said, "I will make Pakistan howl" or something like that.
In celebration of the deader than a door nail burial of the Al Qaeda guys, Meade needs to take a beautiful picture of heroin poppies in full bloom.
A couple of things. We wasn't living in a cave but a million dollar compound. Undercuts some of the holy martyr and man of the people.
Every early spring the new recruits go off from the tribal regions into A-stan. And only a few return. Repeat that ten times. Kinda getting old.
Now the whole "arab spring with twitter" that's sounds a lot better to the teenagers and twenty-somethings.
He became a progressively more distant figure; unable to whip up the "Hope and Change" like he use to. Always more exciting to be with the "In crowd".
"Hey Abbottabad!"
What do you make of a country where they let Lou Costello name their towns?
So Obama's "non-whiteness" (your term) matters? Isn't this the same as calling them racists, in that they despise white Americans more because of our whiteness? Maybe they do, it's a pretty offensive (to them) thing to assume.
That's the problem with all the well-off American liberals' constant, unending obsession with race - it leads to asinine, condescending nonsense like this more often than not. Sheesh.
wv: knottes - what a lot of Obama supporters have been figuratively tying themselves up in lately.
Neptune Spear (sounds like a computer game).
Then they should have just called it Trident. Fucking bureaucrats...
Oh, and if someone at the end of the day is going to do me harm or otherwise violate my personal space in some manner, for what I consider no good reason, I'd much rather they act like a dick from the start. That way I'm more likely to know who I'm dealing with.
It's the ones that talk all nice and smooth and then screw my ass anyway that really piss me off. Anyone who has ever been dealt with by jerk bosses of all types in their workplace knows exactly what I'm talking about.
So no, the fact that the we have an American president who refers to them as "Pahk-ee-stahn" probably doesn't amount to a cup of warm spit. We still did what we did, in about the exact same way as a repub president would have, because in the end it's the same military personnel that carry out the orders, no matter who is giving them.
"Maybe they do, it's a pretty offensive (to them) thing to assume."
Are you insane?
I'm ready to declare that these murderous fanatics are a lot worse than racially biased.
Do you have any idea how dumb your 'point' is?
pbAndj said...
"'three miles from their primary military college'[?]
When this started it was 800 feet, then 1000 feet, then 1500 feet, then 4000 feet. Now it's three miles.
When the real story gets out, I bet we'll discover that this place is in Newark."
Osama's compound was in Abbotabad. The Pakistan Military Academy is in Kakul. Look at google maps, genius.
Actually, that's three miles center to center; Wikipedia says that the compound itself was north of the city, placing it within a mile of the PMA. So. Not New Jersey. Thanks for playing.
Simon,
You probably haven't followed this as it unfolded.
News organizations have been inconsistently reporting the distance between Osama and the academy. The distance has been growing.
So, I added some hyperbole, i.e. Newark.
I do appreciate that you refined the distance to a mile. That confirms the last estimates I've been hearing/reading. If you had started w/ that I wouldn't have made a fuss.
I believe these are the compound coords if you want to look on Google Earth:
34°10'9.30"N 73°14'33.42"E
pbAndj, the distance from the city containing the compound to the town containing the academy is about three miles. More precision than that I do not warrant, because I'm not going on--and I urge you not to go on--what the media reports. Look at a map.
The last time I commented on the lack of protests, all hell broke loose.
Perhaps the Pakistani street is less easily inflamed than Wisconsin's public employee unions.
Maybe they are not protesting because they don't think he is dead.
At least we can show them the body....errr...errrr...nevermind.
Adding to the discrediting of media: I think it's interesting to see the media have so many revisions regarding the distance between Osama and the academy. For example, I saw a Fox News person standing near the compound, pointing down a street, and saying that the academy was 400 yards down that road. This was after reporting much shorter distances. And then, while standing on location, they were still off by more than four hundred percent.
Too bad the Panetta Gaters don't have this scale of inconsistency to work w/.
"Are you insane?
I'm ready to declare that these murderous fanatics are a lot worse than racially biased."
But you weren't referring to the murderous fanatics there, Seymour. You were referring to those influenced by our actions. Nice try at misdirection though.
That's why I don't bother engaging the trolls very often here, y'all are so damned dishonest most of the time.
Still care to answer my original point, which still stands? Are you suggesting that non-combatants in the affected regions will like us more now because of our president's "non-whiteness"?
"But you weren't referring to the murderous fanatics there, Seymour."
Your mind reader is malfunctioning.
Of course you don't really need such a devise to know what I think about these Muslim nuts: I'm not bashful.
"Still care to answer my original point, which still stands?"
If you haven't figured it out yet: I am saying that I think these folks are very capable of racial biases. And, I think that they belong to a religion that was founded by a warrior, who paved the way for his followers to turn into homicidal lunatics who irrationally lash out and kill.
devise or device
The first words out of his mouth when we were introduced was, "We have the bomb."
I hope you replied, "We have thousands."
What Prairie Wind said.
The first words out of his mouth when we were introduced was, "We have the bomb."
I hope you replied, "We have thousands."
I was thinking, "Who set you up?"
I've always thought these protests were astroturf. The signs are always in English, and uniform. The angry faces swarm the camera for 30 seconds, and everyone goes home with a little silver in their pockets.
A lot of people hated bin Laden.
For good reason.
I'm less concerned about the Pakistani "street" but much more concerned about the Pakistani military and intelligence service.
Obviously, we're getting played, or maybe I should say
blackmailed
Madashell, they are pretty much astroturf. Even Christiane A. did a bit on it on 60 Minutes, after so many viewers wrote in and complained about her "reporting" of these rent-a-mobs.
Just google Islamic Rage Boy for more.
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