And now? Still uniformly positive?
“One of the students asked what my specific fetish was and mine is being in front of people, having the attention and being used,” [said the woman]. “The students seemed really intrigued.”Being used, eh? Who feels used now?
[Prof. John Michael] Bailey said in his statement Wednesday that during the Feb. 21 after-class lecture, “I was not in a mood to surrender to sex negativity and fear.”
“Do I have any regrets?” he wrote on Wednesday. “It is mostly too early to say. I certainly have no regrets concerning Northwestern students, who have demonstrated that they are open-minded grown ups rather than fragile children.”
पोस्ट्स
११२ टिप्पण्या:
Professor John your fifteen minutes is up.
“Do I have any regrets?” he wrote on Wednesday. “It is mostly too early to say. I certainly have no regrets concerning Northwestern students, who have demonstrated that they are open-minded grown ups rather than fragile children.”
What purpose does this stuff have at a university?
This is behavior that belongs at a private orgy.
The result is a deadening and cheapening of the academic setting and the orgy.
In the same way, classes in being an artist in the university setting produce bad art, and interfere in the artistic market in an extremely negative fashion. The nadir of this crap is "performance art."
Artists should learn their craft on their own in the school of hard knocks. Likewise, orgiasts should learn their trade in the old fashion way, in private backrooms.
At least, Northwestern is a private school. One hopes that taxpayer money was not spent on this nonsense.
And, you've got to wonder whether this professor really has his ass entirely covered from a liability standpoint. Time will tell.
Northwestern students, who have demonstrated that they are open-minded grown ups rather than fragile children.
Because degradation and self-loathing are the mark of an adult...
She needs a shrink.
C.S. Lewis: "This appetite is in ludicrous and preposterous excess of its function. Or take it another way. You can get a large audience together for a strip-tease act – that is, to watch a girl undress on the stage. Now suppose you come to a country where you could fill a theatre by simply bringing a covered plate on to the stage and then slowly lifting the cover so as to let every one see, just before the lights went out, that it contained a mutton chop or a bit of bacon, would you not think that in that country something had gone wrong with the appetite for food? "
Bailey is just concerned the students might start fucking willy-nilly with no professorial input.
I suppose I should be all open-minded about such things and not such a traditionalist. But that is a disgusting story in that it occurred in an institution of higher education, private or not. I suppose the only saving grace is that it was an after class option. But it is ridiculous, really, really it is.
Too bad there were no black guys on hand to show the poor white women, and the white men, how it's done properly, right ST?
So, Althouse, would you address the legal issue.
During the abuse hysteria of the 1990s, it was commonly stated that sex initiated by a professor involving a student was inherently abusive. (And, it was often asserted that apparent acquiescence on the part of the student was of no importance.)
Does Northwestern have a policy regarding sexual exploitation of a student by a faculty member?
Tenured?
Melvoin-Berg said the sex toy used was BDSM, but was “not like a pain thing...we wanted to make it poignant.”
Poignant? That word does not mean what you think it means...or it does.
I wonder if he has a fetish for controversy or bad press. He was accused of research ethics violations in the past and subsequently stepped down as Chair of his department.
Close down the university and send everyone home where they can indulge in their "sexual freedom" in private. And I thought the Seventies were bad.
Next semester..Coprophilia 101. Wait 'till you see the lab work for this course.
In an art class the nude models are treated with great respect. They are given privacy to robe and disrobe and a reserved space in which to pose. The tradition of having a model stand on a dias or stand further reinforces that aura of respect.
At least that's the way it was when I studied art and that's the way my friends who practice and teach figurative art treat their models now.
Amazing--just amazing--another rung down the ladder into the abyss--with any luck legal action should be taken--but I doubt it.
"During the abuse hysteria of the 1990s, it was commonly stated that sex initiated by a professor involving a student was inherently abusive."
That's not what happened in the incident described in the story.
Je ne regrette rien.
That's not what happened in the incident described in the story.
The entire class of students was in attendance.
I read the story, and the "actors" were hired guns.
You don't regard the students, in the position of voyeurs, as being involved in the sex?
At orgies, the participants are commonly surrounded by voyeurs. For voyeurs, that is their sexual preference.
ST has a point. The woman admitted she gets off from being watched. So, does that make the watchers participants?
So, to restate my question in another way, Der Perfessor:
Were these voyeur students coerced into involvement in these sex acts by the unequal power relationship between them and their professor?
I've met these types of professors. They pride themselves on their "transgressive" cleverness.
Might one of those voyeur students conclude that opting out of the "demonstration" would affect their status in the class in a negative fashion?
In the same way, classes in being an artist in the university setting produce bad art, and interfere in the artistic market in an extremely negative fashion. The nadir of this crap is "performance art."
A hearty amen to this. I was in college in the 80s -- or to put it another way, I was in that ridiculous extension of adolescence where I thought everything I did was "art" -- and I have recently concluded that the absolute worst decade for the fine arts was the 1980s.
"at the leading edge of their respective disciplines,” said Alan K. Cubbage, vice president for University Relations. “The University supports the efforts of its faculty to further the advancement of knowledge.
...“I did mention this was going to be the best money their parents had spent on their education,” he said.”
Evidence for:
1) The higher education bubble about to pop.
2) The US is in its Weimar decadence stage, preceding the inevitable cultural collapse.
3) American grade schools, high schools, and universities have completely utterly failed in thiir primary mission: to educate.
4) The only discipline they exhibit is vice paying tribute to virtue.
5) The West has overdrawn its foundations account.
6) All of the above.
And aren't they also being used?
Didn't Jody Foster star in that movie...?
And 12 year olds are being forever labeled as sexual predators for sexting. Good grief. (At least there was SUPPOSED to be an adult in THIS room.)
Performance art. A sad performance. I'd be curious to hear from the rest of the class.
If "Those who can't....teach" really is true, then the professor's wife must really be frustrated.
"A deadening and cheapening of the academic setting," ST? Absolutely. And even more so, a deadening and cheapening of basic decency. Feminine mystery - what the Victorians primly called a woman's "most secret charm," once privy only to husbands or, perhaps, most favored lovers - now spread out in front of slavering, gawping "students" and pushed by an "educator" blatantly unworthy of the name.
Stories like this make me wish sharia would become the law of the land; I could die happy knowing that perverted scum like this professor would be the first ones strung up from a lamppost.
WV - "messes." Apropos, really.
“Do I have any regrets?”
Having spend the last decades celebrating his ability to feel, he has ironically lost his ability to feel.
...like fragile children.
One would have thought that it would be the adults, not the children, that understand and teach of how complex and deep is the relationship between human sexuality and emotional, psychological, and spiritual well-being, not to mention one's ability to be deeply and truly intimate.
But if such things are childish, why do we need a PhD'd professor?
Just to teach physical sex acts?
Northwestern could save a lot of money by hiring a has-been, out of work porn star.
Hard core porn? Art? Having letters after your name, you should be able to justify anything?
Good grief, what a tool.
"...who have demonstrated that they are open-minded grown ups rather than fragile children."
What, by not objecting? By voyeuristically participating? Some social scientist: he fails to recognize that the data are equivocal in their interpretation. Fascinated attendance of such activities is as likely evidence of immature sexual obsession as it is evidence of anything else.
A veritable So-crates.
Good grief.
Just to teach physical sex acts?
And that degradation is hot. Don't forget that.
Up next: student admits her "fetish" is being dismembered in front of a crowd in front of a giant screen playing He-Man and She-Ra. All students attending this after class demonstration will receive a special commendation on their record stating they are "no longer fragile children." Extra credit will be given to anyone who helps clean up afterword and/or volunteers to man the hallways for the police.
I wonder if the Ryan Family ever envisioned their Auditorium being used for pornographic purposes.
Perhaps they can ask for their donation to be returned.
So, can anyone tell me what value this activity brings?
Could this just be a 'front' for the whims of this detestable woman and the professor?
I say the 2 of them are in cohoots (ya think?).
She likes to get her jollies being a whore in public and the professor is just fulfilling the role of the wisdom-giver.
We are f'ing doomed, that any of this is taken seriously.
Right up there with all the breathless defenders of Charlie Sheen.
".“I did mention this was going to be the best money their parents had spent on their education"
Sounds like Northwestern University has become formally engaged in prostitution.
Professor, I'm still interested in your comments re: this idiot professor's potential legal liability.
Do you know what Northwestern's policy toward faculty/student sex is?
Can the students in his class file suit for emotional abuse?
students watched as a naked 25-year-old woman was penetrated by a sex toy...
"my specific fetish...is being in front of people, having the attention and being used.”
Talk about you perfect metaphor for higher education.
Moreover, it sounds exactly like what the students at the Madison protests are doing.
I'm still trying to figure out the dynamic of this couple; he's 20 years older than her, she gets naked and he doesn't, he penetrates her with a sex toy in front of a crowd. I mean, doesn't this seem a leeeetle exploitative?
“Northwestern University faculty members engage in teaching and research on a wide variety of topics, some of them controversial and at the leading edge of their respective disciplines,” said Alan K. Cubbage, vice president for University Relations. “The University supports the efforts of its faculty to further the advancement of knowledge.”
Sex in all its conceivable ways and forms has been around for thousands and thousands of years, but in their arrogance and conceit Northwestern fancies that their professors are on the cutting edge.
But even I can see that they're professionally incompetent because in regards to sex acts they apparently don't know and teach the n+1 proof theory (if you can prove it for n, and you can prove it for n+1, it holds for all possible n.)
They actually want to patiently prove it for all n, and still call it high scholarship and advancing knowledge.
@Don't Tread 2012
I'd suspect the professor's motives are:
1. Love of publicity
2. Belief that he is "transgressive" and outrageous
3. Desire to get in student's panties
So Northwestern is now educating 20 years olds raised on farms and in the age of free pornography access on the internet how sex is done? Maybe this Professor knows how to Pile it Higher and Deeper.
@ST
"@Don't Tread 2012
I'd suspect the professor's motives are:
1. Love of publicity
2. Belief that he is "transgressive" and outrageous
3. Desire to get in student's panties"
I think I said VALUE, not motives. What possible VALUE does this have?
I want to give them credit for not claiming that this was performance art.
“It was for me academic like everything else,” he said.
He told his grandparents about the class.
“My grandma was like, wow, Northwestern is a little bit different then when I went there,” he said.
I think I said VALUE, not motives. What possible VALUE does this have?
1. Gives der professor publicity
2. Makes der professor feel all transgressive and daring
3. Gets der professor in admiring student's panties
He told his grandparents about the class.
“My grandma was like, wow, Northwestern is a little bit different then when I went there,” he said.
I disagree. Northwestern students, dating back to the establishment of the university in 1851 have known how to stage an orgy. And, I would venture to guess, those students have staged an orgy whenever they felt like it.
The professor is a perv.
Ann Althouse said...
"During the abuse hysteria of the 1990s, it was commonly stated that sex initiated by a professor involving a student was inherently abusive."
That's not what happened in the incident described in the story.
3/3/11 8:57 AM
Of course. I suppose you and Meade could do something similar after a Con Law class...
or not.
As for ST's angle that the professor coerced students into watching what they would rather not watch, the article states that about 500 of the students who attended the class left before the after-class session, which included the sex act.
@ST
If your answer is that it is only of vale to the good professor, then I would submit it should not have been done in an 'academic' setting.
Maybe the good professor has heard of the bedroom before?
wv - shkativa
Northwestern tuition is $13,280 per quarter or $4,726 per class...pretty expensive peep show.
Now when Northwestern announces that they are having seminar, they may mean a semen-ar using real sperm.
As for ST's angle that the professor coerced students into watching what they would rather not watch, the article states that about 500 of the students who attended the class left before the after-class session, which included the sex act.
OK, I'm being bullheaded, but I live in NYC and Woodstock where this sex abuse stuff was an absolute mania during the 90s.
Suppose just one of those students who remained felt coerced to remain. What's the legal status of the professor? What's the university's ethical policy?
To the sex abuse hysterics, unequal power relationships meant that apparent consent was of no consequence.
Class size of 600?
Good God. What a cash cow for the Univerisity.
And I'm going to continue on the sexual abuse theory, which I've heard ad nauseum from the left.
In my experience, professors who engage in this kind of "transgressive" behavior are doing so, at least in part, to land sex partners from among their students.
Methinks this professor has some legal land mines in his future.
So if someone was uncomfortable in being in this class with this demonstration they were at signifcant risk of being labeled and shamed as a "fragile child."
Nice, Professor, really really nice.
And so tolerant of others' sensibilities which you have determined to be immature in your universe.
As they say, "Way to go, dude!"
Not to mention that I thought a mark of civilization was that we protect "fragile" children.
Well, sometimes.
Our Federally Guaranteed Student Loans at work!
Going back to my statement that Northwestern students have always known how to throw an orgy, I wonder this:
What does it say about our current crop of kiddies that they want or expect their orgy to be directed by a faculty member?
I wonder if the wait list for the class will be longer or shorter because of this.
I'll answer my own question.
Northwestern has now completely inverted the traditional moral structure.
An authority figure is instructing students in staging an orgy.
The orgy has thus lost all meaning. It is now an act of deference to authority.
The Amerikan atmosphere in higher education reminds me of the Dark Ages, when daring academics were forced to steal bodies to practice dissection, advancing physiology and anatomy, in front of willing students.
Of course, all of that led to the medical science that we benefit from today.
Down with the troglodytes! They should be forewarned so they can stay away, satisfying their own religiosity while improving the lives of everybody else at the same time.
Strangely, the final exam will still require a number 2 pencil.
"A great curse has fallen upon modern life with the discovery of the vastness of the word Education."
G.K. Chesterton
Just like Jesus, Monty Python has already covered this.
(age verification required)
"Her fiancee . . . "
Can this marriage be saved?
Pretty doubtful.
Pogo said...
Strangely, the final exam will still require a number 2 pencil.
Good one, Pogo!
Strangely, the final exam will still require a number 2 pencil.
Wash your hands first.
How's the feminism working out for all of you sisters? Still feel empowered?
I like porn as much or more than any other normal male but this is just a bit silly. How did we come to a point where we have PC speech codes under which the slightest misphrasing can lead to sexual harassment charges and expulsion while at the same time professors are orchestrating the penetration of coeds with dildos for the enjoyment of their classmates? Perhaps it is the presence or absence of a white lab jacket that makes the difference?
Now we wait to see if any of the females in the class file a suit claiming they were afraid to leave the room because of how it might affect their grade. Call me sexist but I don't see any of the dudes in the class filing suit... following suit, yes... filing suit, no.
I guess that's what they (the students, or maybe their parents) pay the big bucks for.
Ironicaly, Bailey's identification of transsexualism as a kink gets him branded as a regressive right-winger
from The F**king Article (!)
"This isn’t Bailey’s first brush with controversy. His 2003 book, “The Man Who Would Be Queen,” sparked hostile debate in the transgender community by claiming that there were more reasons for men to become women then simply that biology trapped them in the wrong body. Several transgender women who spoke with Bailey claimed they did not consent to being used for research and accused him of practicing psychology without a license."
Amazing how TFA hides the actual results of Bailey's research, that trannies got a sexual kink charge out of being trannies, and weren't just trying to feel whole.
The professor is obviously in a position of power over the students as well as the people he employed to perform this act. As to whether his students were or could be considered coerced into watching see his statement that the students that watched and approved were "...open-minded grown ups rather than fragile children." It seems clear to me that anyone that objected would be a 'closed minded fragile child' and subject being graded as such.
This is really stupid and I can only hope that the higher education establishment gets what it has coming for this sort of thing - lower enrolment and fewer jobs for professors.
...open-minded grown ups rather than fragile children.
Not the comparison I would have chosen. Rather than open-minded grown ups, it'd be curious adolescents. As long as no one's getting hurt, I don't care what goes on in private, but let's call it what it is.
At least, Northwestern is a private school. One hopes that taxpayer money was not spent on this nonsense.
I'm sure there's plenty fo taxpayer money going there in the form of grants, scholarships, etc.
I take it no chocolate was involved.
“Do I have any regrets?” he wrote on Wednesday. “It is mostly too early to say."
Regrets only if there are disagreeable consequences?
The only thing that kept the good professor from being arrested was that he didn't charge admission.
Wha? Tuition?
Hmmm...
rasqual said...
Good grief, what a tool.
"...who have demonstrated that they are open-minded grown ups rather than fragile children."
What, by not objecting?
Objecting might affect their grade.
Don't you know how Liberal Arts is taught?
Jesus, that's obscene.
I mean the part about a Big 10 diploma-mill with at least one class as large as 600 "students" (attendees) charging $40,000 per year for tuition.
Perhaps the most bizarre aspect of this is that the university defended it. What if this happened in a dorm or frat house and the campus cops walked in?
But, get a professor to lead the activity and all is OK.
Oh good gravy, my children are never going to college! They're never leaving the house! We're moving to a cabin in the woods in Idaho where we'll heat with firewood and home school, and, and, and...
Well, if nothing else, at least my appetite is ruined, and right at lunch time too. Skipping a meal or 2 never hurt anyone.
Hey if a bunch of tweedledums want to watch some live porn, who are we to judge?
Former President Clinton's scheduled demonstration will be especially cool.
To the surprise of most of the Progressives here I admit to enjoy a little kink now and then but voyeurism is not on my list of approved activities.
Mom can pay muuuuuuch less for jrs to fly to Las Vegas, stay in a 5 star hotel, make a trip to the brothels, and have some hands on experience than that $200,000 for an "education" at Northwestern.
... and Obama is going after "for-profits" institutions, and Reid goes after sex-workers?
Charlie Sheen is not a unique phenomena - this professor obviously suffers from the same condition - he thinks he is amazing and above it all and hyper-enlightened - so he takes our kids and tweaks with their minds. He is protected, and thus arrogant.
And the kids, still in their formative years, have not learned yet how to stand up and shout NO - they sit there and, though they know it is wrong, they dare not say anything for fear of being judged uncool.
Here's another example of that:
Blood, masochism and the shocking thrill of human suspension WARNING, OFFENSIVE IMAGES
Human Suspension: The Video
Another case where a woman gets her rocks off and poor young people stifle their aversion in order to appear cool and enlightened.
It's very sad.
Fox has a picture of the implement, sans attachment. A RECIPROCATING SAW?!?!?!
Dear GOD.
I'll never be able to watch "This Old House" again.
Does no one remember this?
http://goo.gl/xXMAX
And the left wonders why the right would like to cut back on money for the universities. French and Latin get cuts, while this sort of thing gets funded. Phooey.
Nudity, Child Rape, Suicide Shown to 9yr olds at Suburban Chicago Winnetka Grade School. No one Fired
Another one. How dare you object.
Hey I used to only have to be a quarter to see this st Show World.
Or at least a quarter a minute.
How much is tuition? This seems like a rip-off to me.
@SGT TED: "Our Federally Guaranteed Student Loans at work!"
Yeah, so we gotta really crack down on those evil for-profit trade schools, teaching people crap like auto repair and bookkeeping, because you know they got a really high dropout rate. Kids at Northwestern learning how to be porn stars, hey that's all different. The dropout rate's really low so it's a really, really good education.
This is another example of why teachers should be replaced by robots and they should attach wires attached to their genitals to shock them if they give the wrong answer.
1. Decadence can find agents only when it wears the mask of progress.
2. From the Thoughts of Professor John Michael Bailey: I certainly have no regrets concerning Northwestern students, who have demonstrated that they are open-minded grown ups rather than fragile children.
Does this mean you can only take Bailey's class if you (and not your parents) are paying your own tuition? How will those "open minded grown ups" feel about value for money when it's time to pay off their student loans?
Sounds pretty intersting to me--optional for the students, interesting for the participants, fascinating to the nation.
Who here is going to pretend they aren't a bit titillated?
And where are the libertarians? Certainly Ron and Rand Paul would be okay with this!
"And where are the libertarians? Certainly Ron and Rand Paul would be okay with this!"
This libertarian is fine with people deciding to perform in such a way, even though it seems likely she'll regret this if her future is not in academia. The inappropriate venue is a direct result of our broken university funding mechanism. We place tremendous value on education when determining funding levels, but because students bear so little of the cost personally they seek to entertain themselves rather than having to decide if this entertainment is worth the cost.
For what it's worth, I took a similar class so I'm not speaking hypothetically. I saw it as a dating investment.
Unfortunately it turned out to be more of the same leftist bullshit imbued throughout the University (not Wisconsin). The primary focus (openly admitted in the syllabus) was to influence our sexual attitudes.
Premise one was that being gay is as good as being straight except when stereotypes exist that gays are better, in which case gays are better. Premise two was that both women's and man's sexual choices are properly within the control of women. Unless you're gay, in which case see premise one.
We didn't didn't have live sex demonstrations, but we did watch a few minutes of porn.
I knew it was a mistake majoring in math.
I knew it was a mistake majoring in math.
It was a math class. They were studying probe-abilities.
and I have recently concluded that the absolute worst decade for the fine arts was the 1980s.
There 'ya go again ...
Hey, that was Reagan's decade when everything was warm and fuzzy!
Indeed, god, country, baseball, hotdogs, apple pie and Chevrolet.
ok, ok, Dr. Ruth was a cultural icon in the '80s ~ Too funny!
>
Again people, the (3) internet P's: Politics, Poker, Porn ...
Learn it. Know it. Live it.
Well, I hope that whoever set up the dildo on the reciprocating saw knew what she/he was doing, not like these clowns:
http://www.narutoforums.com/archive/index.php/t-482741.html
Power tools have no business in close proximity to any part of the human anatomy, much less "down there".
WV: nonist A monist - 1
This is like that Monty Python sex-ed skit from one of the movies come to life in even more ridiculous fashion.
Unbelievable.
An “absurd, clinical” video and subsequent discussion about various aspects of female orgasm led Faith and her partner Jim Marcus, 45, to prove to the class that female orgasm is real.
Did they really not believe that the female orgasm is real.
Maybe the woman misspoke,maybe she meant to say:
An “absurd, clinical” video and subsequent discussion about various aspects of female orgasm lead me to show them a REAL orgasm
PS I'm a NU alum.
And not one cell phone picture or video out on the web? Really?
wv: menefit-this was to help en be better lovers
I am just glad to know that Charlie Sheen has a chance at getting another job if this Hollywood thing doesn't work out.
Perhaps it is the presence or absence of a white lab jacket that makes the difference?
Not for those of us who have seen Oh! Calcutta!
@Fen:
If you assume that humans are designed by a creator (not blindly evolved to maximize individual genetic perpetuation), and that the creator intended the sexual function only for the purpose of reproduction, then sure, C.S. Lewis has an argument.
However, there is no scripture of any major religion on the whole of the Earth where it is actually stated that the Creator's sole purpose for the sexual function was reproduction. It seems the thought process went, "1. I can't think of any other purpose for sex than reproduction" -> "2. The Creator must have meant it for no function than reproduction" -> "3. The fact that people want to do it a lot more than is necessary for reproduction proves humanity isn't functioning as designed!"
The leap from 1 to 2 is entirely unjustified, and thus 3 cannot be concluded.
@aronamos:
I'm still trying to figure out the dynamic of this couple; he's 20 years older than her, she gets naked and he doesn't, he penetrates her with a sex toy in front of a crowd. I mean, doesn't this seem a leeeetle exploitative?
She gets off on it; isn't it just as accurate to say she was exploiting the students?
@shoutingthomas:
The orgy has thus lost all meaning. It is now an act of deference to authority.
Yeah, see, there's your problem, thinking that the meaning or purpose of an orgy is to defy authority. That's an inherently authoritarian interpretation of the act. The actual purpose of an orgy is the exact same as the purpose of playing softball; having fun. (And like softball, if it isn't fun for you, you shouldn't participate.)
Sorry Ann.
NU is still 10 times the school UW is. Everyplace has their "crap" courses. And trust me, overall UW Madison is descending rapidly with these student "protests" you continue to applaud and cover.
Plus (pulling an Althouse) "I just refuse to believe it's true until I see video!!"
Lol.
Another reason we need tenure to protect professors, eh? Otherwise we might miss out on such ... thought provoking nonsense.
Wait... was Jeremy Freese in any way involved in this?
It seems to be his little-boy speed. He still coming to your dinner parties by chance?
Northwestern U. doesn't seem to subscribe to the view that any publicity is good publicity. It's now in full Captain Renault
mode.
Fen said...
Because degradation and self-loathing are the mark of an adult...
She needs a shrink.
No, of only leftards. Does she need a shrink or a hug from a dildo?
Steve and aronamos:
This is a sadomasochistic relationship where the older male (the Master) exercises power over the younger woman (his slave). This appears to be a mutually satisfying relationship although it is hard to tell if she is truly a free agent at this point.
BDSM may or may not be about sex. Certainly there are elements of sexuality to it as this demonstration shows but the principal driver here is the so-called and one sided "power exchange." Both sides are supposed to get something positive out of it but frankly the dominant male is getting most of the benefits. A relationship between a female dominant and her submissive male while not equal in power is generally more equal in satisfaction.
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