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२३७ टिप्पण्या:
237 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»What about the IRS agent who committed suicide in Tennessee (don't remember his name, but it wasn't that long ago).
A list of the crimes and massacres the left didn't try to pin on the right would be shorter.
Oops, no, he was a census worker.
Interesting how the leftist minds so quickly settles on explaining violence in terms of politics.
A corresponding list of incidents the right has tried to pin on liberals would be helpful for comparison.
And let's not forget that our President - Barack Obama - launched his political career in the Chicago living room of a domestic terrorist bomber - William Ayers.
So Democrats can fucking spare us the lecture on heated political rhetoric.
I'm going to do precisely what Barack Obama told me to do:
I intend to get in Democrat's faces.
I intend to punch them back twice as hard.
I intend to bring a gun to their knife fight.
I intend to punish my enemies and reward my friends.
Just like Obama told us to.
Well, it's been that way for a long time. Centralized media helped a lot. Now, the truth gets out. And, yes, it started with El Rushbo.
The Left has always hated the truth.
Oops. Read leftist mind for "leftist minds." Thank you.
wv: forming -- wtf, that's a word!
@chickelit
There.
That about does it.
Florida, that was beautifully concise. Bravo.
I'm going to do precisely what Barack Obama told me to do:
I thought he said you should stop commenting on blogs. Along with your sock-puppet New Ham Hussein.
wv: undystsa - the unholy triumvirate
Was the Virginia Tech shooter thought to be from the right?
What about the Holocaust Museum shooter?
These didn't seem to make the list.
P.S. I don't understand why folks are all wee wee'd up about the gun/knife fight thing. The whole point of complaining about this sort of speech is that you're supposed to be worried that folks will take these comments literally.
So, is the right really angry because if they try to knife libs, the libs just might shoot them, rather than try to knife them back--because that's what BHO told them to do when they're in a knife fight w/ an R?
Hmm. Marilyn Manson and bullies got blamed for Columbine. The Discovery Channel hostage taker? Who on the left blamed the right for that? I thought we blamed Al Gore. Who blamed conservatives for Amy Bishop? I don't recall it playing out that way.
The Census taker in Kentucky, NYT Times Square, IRS plane attack, all yes for sure.
Most of the other events I remember, but the political arguments around them not so much.
He forgets to mention the original work of Lefty wishful-thinking-cum Orwellian-airbrushing: the almost 50-year effort at finding a right-wing conspiracy behind the assassination of JFK. And of RFK too, for that matter.
While it is true that those on the left of the political spectrum use incidents of violence in an attempt to silence their political opposition, I wish that those on the other side would get over wallowing in their victimhood.
It would be really cool if they simply said, "This guy's a nut, period," instead of tastelessly turning this brutal crime into the Passion of the Palin.
It's understandable why progressives wax indignant about catastrophes such as these. That health care cost curve won't keep itself down.
1jpb
Convince us you are really not that stupid.
Words are powerful and the left controlled the words until the internet and talk radio. It is still possible to talk the big lie, to create and extend the narrative, but it is getting a whole lot harder. Look at the clever mocking twitters that are having fun with the idea of curtailing speech. Imagine the fury it would cause in you if you had the power of words, the power to weave and mend the narrative and then lost it.
@tim macguire: Read especially the last paragraph here.
I'm not worried about a liberal shooting me. Remember it us "bitter" right wingers that are "clinging" to our bibles and guns. What are you bringing to the party?
"instead of tastelessly turning this brutal crime into the Passion of the Palin."
If they did that there'd be nothing in it for the left. Watching cons rally behind Palin (and others) is, I would assume, the whole point. Can't you hear the libs chuckling in their salons and bistros? "Ha ha look at the silly cons scrambling about."
Youngblood: Are you implying that the right dragged Palin into this so that they could make her into the victim? "instead of tastelessly turning this brutal crime into the Passion of the Palin." Are you nuts? Who do you think accused Palin of being the evil genius behind these horrors? Republicans? How about deciding that liberals are malicious paranoids who believe that their every failure is some one else's fault? How about a "conversation" about the unhinged left and their media?
1jpb wrote:
"I don't understand why folks are all wee wee'd up about the gun/knife fight thing."
It's simple.
As much as those on the Right criticize the culture of victimhood on the Left, they love painting themselves as helpless oppressed victims kicked hither and yon by the liberal fascist jackboot.
The left is nothing but a bunch of rhetorical conspiracy theorists.
Meade: That was the media's attempt to follow the genius lead of Al Sharpton. Pathetic.
Youngblood: Not "helpless" and never "kicked" by the left. Trust us on that.
RL,
Not 'AND.'
It was actually gun OR religion Or antipathy to people who aren’t like them OR anti-immigrant sentiment OR anti-trade sentiment
And, are you sure you were targeted (oops) by BHO.
a) from a small towns in Pennsylvania, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest,
and b) where the jobs have been gone now for 25 years
and c) nothing’s replaced them.
and d) they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate
and e) they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to...
Do you satisfy all of the requirements; a to e?
We're all being so literal now. Right?
PB&J doesn't understand because Kos put out the word to start backtracking once all the nasty stuff on his site started coming out.
So, Obama's the left now?
He wasn't so leftist a few weeks ago when he agreed to extend BushhCo tax cuts. Or funding Afghan. Or when agreeing to the bailout. He's hardly any more left than Hillary.
To a klansman such as FLorida, however, anyone like who objects to Rush or Glenn Belch is...a suspect Red.
Actually edutcher, it is the right who always try to distance themselves from the truth, in the name of truth. They are now trying to distance themselves from their violent, "Second Amendment" rhetoric and say, " hey, i was not the one talking the violent hate speak. It was the libs." That's crap and you know it. Like most other righties, you are deny, deny, deny.
Oh chicklit, there is no corresponding list from the left concerning the right because they are attributing all of those incidents on the left and not
(as usual) taking any sort of responsibility for their own actions.
You see, I just think the guy is nuts, I don't feel the need to cast blame on anyone, this is the job of the conservative right.
vicki
Vicki from Pasadena
Anyone else find it creepy that new standard what me may and may not say is: How will it affect the behavior of an abviously crazy person who may or may not hear it?
Maybe it's guilt by association?
It could be that the innuendos run to the right on violence because of the association the left makes with guns = violent nuts.
Since more on the right seems to favor a personal application of the Second Amendment, anyone who shoots someone or someones is immediately linked in the left's brains to "right wing nuts."
While it fits the profiling in domestic murders for instance, to look at the boyfriend/husband/girlfriend/wife, if a gun is thrown into the mix the profiling can also take on political meaning.
For instance, in the news of the Virginia Tech shootings one of the reasons highlighted for picking up the first victim's boyfriend was that he was described as an "avid gun user."
Guilt by association. If conservatives / Consitutionalists didn't favor Second Amendment rights, all these people wouldn't be shot / blown up / whatever.
So expect the left to try to restrict guns more and control people's speech.
We're all being so literal now. Right?
Oops sorry I forgot there was a war on metaphors
Funny, but if conservatives were so violent as the liberals suggest, how come they can't come up with any actual incidents of violence perpetrated by these conservatives?
I don't feel the need to cast blame on anyone, this is the job of the conservative right.
vicki from pasadena make the point, doesn't she?
She must have been sleeping through the first 36 hours of the Gifford shooting.
Michael,
I'm a Conservative too, and I'm sick and fucking tired of being associated with people who claim to piss their pants when Obama references The Untouchables.
It wouldn't have been that hard in this case to take the high road. Those on the Right could have pointed out that Loughner is a nut, that there's no evidence that he was influenced by Sarah Palin (or any other personality on the Right), and that the Left is shamelessly taking advantage of a massacre in an attempt to silence its political opponents.
But no. The Right had to take the bait. Now they're hooked, playing the same bullshit game as the Left. "You're hateful!" "No, you're hateful!" "No, you are."
Fuck that noise.
ijpb wrote:What about the holocaust museum shooter?
Lets go back in time to althouse's own site where she mentioned this very topic.
Note, Paul Krugman (He who suggested libs should burn Joe Lieberman in effigy over his betrayal of the dems in running as an independent) blamed "right wing ideology". THough, considering the guy hates Jews I'd blame left wing ideology, and/or Cedarford.
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/06/did-right-wing-ideology-fuel-holocaust.html
Michael said...
Words are powerful and the left controlled the words until the internet and talk radio. It is still possible to talk the big lie, to create and extend the narrative, but it is getting a whole lot harder.
Ding, ding, ding, ding, winner!
As explained here:
he Left’s sudden talk about incendiary political rhetoric in the wake of the Arizona shooting isn’t really about political rhetoric at all. It’s about the real-world failure of leftist policies everywhere—the bankrupting of nations and states by greedy unions and unfundable social programs, the destruction of inner cities by identity politics, and the appeasement of Muslim extremists in the face of worldwide jihad, not to mention the frequently fatal effects of delirious environmentalism. Europe is in debt and on fire. American citizens are in political revolt. Even the most left-wing president ever is making desperate overtures to his right.
But all that might be tolerable to leftists if they weren’t starting to lose control of the one weapon in which they have the most faith: the narrative. The narrative is what leftists believe in instead of the truth. If they can blame George W. Bush for the economic crisis, if they can make Sarah Palin out to be an idiot, if they can call the Tea Party racist until you think it must be true, they might yet retain power in spite of the international disgrace of their ideas. And though they still mostly dominate the narrative on the three broadcast networks, most cable stations, most newspapers, and much of Hollywood, nonetheless Fox News, talk radio, the Internet, and the Wall Street Journal have begun to respond in ways they can’t ignore.
They are becoming unhinged.
Michael (and everyone else),
If you can't see how the Left and Right cynically blowing stupid shit out of proportion to top the other is dangerous to our political discourse and our freedom of speech, I can't help you there.
A majority of the people in this country identify more with the Tea Party movement than with the Democrat Party today, with liberalism.
Fact check time for Rush Windbaugh, or rather call bullsh*t on Rush time. Where's the cite? There isn't even data from 2010 that could prove that. Demos still have substantially more people than GOP (and TP) in the big states (like CA and NY). And the TP is not the GOP. Just a small part. So he's making shit up as usual-- or maybe just talking to Texass. "Dese people..." Nearly ...Fuhrer like
Why such a defensive post?
No jal, i was awake. I saw the way both Fox and MSNBC rushed to place blame on the other side. Sick sick sick.
If the righties were totally blameless, they should have taken the high road. But they didn't, they slung mud and assigned blame along wit the left. Even worse, they tried to distance themselves from their violent rhetoric and tap down their hate speak.
I would have admired them more if they had been honest. But that doesn't seem to be the calling card for either extreme.
Vicki
Youngblood said...
It's simple.
As much as those on the Right criticize the culture of victimhood on the Left, they love painting themselves as helpless oppressed victims kicked hither and yon by the liberal fascist jackboot.
Michael,
I'm a Conservative too, and I'm sick and fucking tired of being associated with people who claim to piss their pants when Obama references The Untouchables.
It wouldn't have been that hard in this case to take the high road.
No, that's what the RINOs did forever and the result was the Left controlled the debate. The only way for the truth to come out is for someone to get up and actually say, "That's a lie. Here's the truth of it. Oh, and by the way, let's keep in mind the real purveyors here". The Bushes, pere et fils, tried the high road and the lies stacked up real fast.
PS From quote 1, he doesn't sound like a Conservative.
victoria said...
Actually edutcher, it is the right who always try to distance themselves from the truth, in the name of truth.
Whatever she said.
This from the woman who throws up a little in her mouth every time the subject of Sarah Palin arises.
There isn't even data from 2010 that could prove that.
You mean other than the election, right?
Or do you mean other than this?
The number of Americans identifying themselves as Democrats is at its lowest point in seven years, according to a new survey by Gallup
You are either ignorant or lying. Which is it?
Jay
I guess you didn't see this link?
"Interesting how the leftist minds so quickly settles on explaining violence in terms of politics."
"Explaining" implies that there has been some review of the facts. "Blaming", on the other hand, has no requirement whatsoever.
It's a knee-jerk reaction, possibly born out of fear, but more likely from a feeling of loss of control.
The one thing we do know about "blame", is that it doesn't lead to deeper self reflection, greater understanding or reasonable resolution.
Who was saying that Columbine was a crime committed by conservatives? You had some gun control people (like Michael Moore) using it as an argument in favor of gun control (one I don't agree with, personally), but where were the examples of people saying the shooters there were conservatives? Let's see some links to support that. The same can be said for other incidents on that list, like the Fort Hood attack. Who was claiming that was done by people on the right?
And the biggest one on that list - Oklahoma City - was done by a right-wing extremist. Not someone with any ties to mainstream conservatism, that's for sure, but people who get inspired by the Turner Diaries aren't generally from the left.
It's also interesting to note that Rush isn't mentioning the killing of abortion provider George Tiller, and he's also not mentioning the guy who shot up the Unitarian church in Knoxville, in order to target liberals. (You can read his manifesto here.) Again, the guys who performed those crimes weren't mainstream conservatives in any sense of the word, but they were on the fringes of the right, and it's the lunatic fringe that one must be concerned about.
If the righties were totally blameless, they should have taken the high road.
Yeah, I think conservatives should not respond when MSNBC & CNN anchors take to the air and blame them for this shooting.
They should take this mythical, undefined, "high road" (read: silence) while the smear sticks.
Of course you'd be happy, you're a partisan hack.
Matt said...
Jay
I guess you didn't see this link?
That link has nothing to do with anything.
This shooter has no affiliation with tea party, conservative, or gun rhetoric.
None.
You can grasp that, can't you?
The plane attack on the IRS was Austin, not San Antonio.
victoria said...
No jal, i was awake. I saw the way both Fox and MSNBC rushed to place blame on the other side.
Who did FOX News attempt to blame? Can you site an example of Fox News blaming Democrats for the attempted assassination of a Democratic Congressperson?
The left has stepped in it so bad on this one. That's one of the problems with reacting to everything with your emotions first, and sometimes only. It just makes a wingnut feel good about the future in so many ways. Keep it up you fools...please keep it up. You can't help it anyway, so just let it out.
@J
"So, Obama's the left now?
He wasn't so leftist a few weeks ago when he agreed to extend BushhCo tax cuts. Or funding Afghan. Or when agreeing to the bailout. He's hardly any more left than Hillary. "
No, he was a leftist then and he's the same leftist now. Then, it was brilliant pragmatism - that is, because he had his ass handed to him in the election, he had to move right. If not, no way he has a chance in 2012. Had democrats won the election, no way we'd see the extension of tax rates, or the more 'conciliatory' tone.
Either way, while the story isn't over yet, it's looking more and more like the guy was a general nutjob, without any coherent ideology and perhaps with a weird personal grudge against Giffords. Too bad for people on either side who were quick to start that claiming Loughner was acting for the other side.
And twenty bucks says Loughner never even read half the books on the favorite books list that is being mentioned everywhere.
Edutcher,
The suggestion that I offered, which you didn't quote, was for people on the Right to stand up and say, "No, this is a shameless and cynical lie intended to shame us into silence."
Instead of doing that, the Right has decided to shamelessly and cynically lie to shame their opposition into silence.
You may piss the bed when Obama references The Untouchables, but I don't.
Email received from UC Berkeley Chancellor Birgeneau commenting on Arizona shootings:
Dear members of our campus community:
This weekend's shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and the deaths and injuries of many others in the horrific event in Tucson, Arizona have shocked our nation. We here at UC Berkeley offer our sincere condolences to everyone who has been personally affected by this tragedy.
Such a brutal and violent attack on an individual who has devoted herself to public service is deeply regrettable. It calls upon us as an academic community to stop and ponder the climate in which such an act can be contemplated, even by a mind that is profoundly disturbed. A climate in which demonization of others goes unchallenged and hateful speech is tolerated can lead to such a tragedy. I believe that it is not a coincidence that this calamity has occurred in a state which has legislated discrimination against undocumented persons. This same mean-spirited xenophobia played a major role in the defeat of the Dream Act by our legislators in Washington, leaving many exceptionally talented and deserving young people, including our own undocumented students, painfully in limbo with regard to their futures in this country.
On our own campus, and throughout all the campuses of the University of California, we must continue to work toward a climate of equity and inclusion for all. We must be vigilant to condemn hate speech and acts of vandalism on our campuses by those wanting to promote enmity. We must work to support dialogue about our differences and eschew expressions of demonization of others, including virulent attacks on Israel, anti-Muslim graffiti, racism towards African-Americans, Chicano/Latinos and other underrepresented minority groups, and homophobic acts. Continuing to support our principles of community will ensure a better and safer campus. We must do this now so that our students, as future leaders of this great country, will continue to set the standard for a better and safer nation.
Robert J. Birgeneau
Chancellor, UC Berkeley
Youngblood wrote:
It would be really cool if they simply said, "This guy's a nut, period," instead of tastelessly turning this brutal crime into the Passion of the Palin.
They're not turning it into a passion of the Palin. They are rebutting blood libels. And note, they are not saying that in fact it was liberal ideology that caused this shooting. What they are saying is that libs are full of shit. Big difference.
One thing is for sure, the mainstream media made his efforts a complete success,for him It's just what he wanted.
You may piss the bed when Obama references The Untouchables, but I don't.
Actually, edutcher pisses the bed for lots of reasons, commentary from President Obama being only one.
Though the Obama reference was a dumb one and unpresidential. Not to mention not very convincing, even to many of his allies.
I'll note Youngblood, that in the 2009 link I refrenced from Althouse about the Holocaust museum that Krugman blamed on rightwing ideology, and if you look in the discussion there you find Alpha Liberal saying "yet another right wing killing". Beuase that really is the point isnt it. You want republicans to take an endless high road, yet at every turn you have the alpha liberals of hte world blaming republicans for violence that is ultimately not attributable to them. And how many times will he continue with the libel? Endlessly. Yet to you, even rebutting the outlandish smear, is the equivalent of making the smear.
Response to UC Berkeley Chancellor, PC Police Chief Birgeneau:
Pfft. Baseless assumptions and opinion.
Please, go back to writing class outlines for Alinsky 101 and others.
I'd say: too early.
But, that's just me.
Matt said...
Jay
I guess you didn't see this link?
Your link says the Holocaust museum shooting was done in the name of "insurrection" or something?
That was a bunch of meaningless babble.
Garage said,
"I thought he said you should stop commenting on blogs. Along with your sock-puppet New Ham Hussein."
You used to be a powerful counterpoint on these threads but events have now reduced you to zero....
WV:paria. I kid you not, how does "it" know?
"On YouTube, Loughner's profile listed Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels's "The Communist Manifesto" and Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" among his favorite books."
Interesting.
http://tinyurl.com/3xyor8x
If this is true, isn't this a big part of the puzzle? Isn't this worthy of a mention on the nightly news?
On Drudge - a photo of the dried up sheriff who bungled the threats and now blames Limbaugh.
lol.
The reading list?
Still?
Lame is as lame does.
That's right jaybird--maybe like google the ebonics Govt class for starters. The electoral college ring a bell? CA with 36 mil.people + is like 10% more Demo (or more) than GOP/TP. NY's close to that. So who cares that Nevada with what 5 mil or so is nearly even.
Once you sum up the estimates of entire country (which is not really official data--ie census) yll discover Fat man Windbaugh was lying his ass off, or maybe off his meds and mistaking Kentucky for the US.
somefeller: Too bad people on the Left were quick to start that claiming Loughner was acting for the right wing.
/fixed
You're using Alpha Liberal as your best evidence? That's really the road you want to go down?
The electoral college ring a bell?
You are an idiot.
CA with 36 mil.people + is like 10% more Demo (or more) than GOP/TP. NY's close to that. So who cares that Nevada with what 5 mil or so is nearly even.
Funny how you leave Texas out of that.
Gee, why would you be doing that?
It is also interesting you mention two bankrupt states.
Then again, you're always beclowning yourself here so nobody is surprised.
In these troubling, volatile times we should move on from nasty Newspeak to sanctimonious Slimspeak. For any civil discourse only four words are necessary; 'duh?', 'huh?', 'yay!',and 'yikes!'
Professors should be allowed an occasional 'hmm'. Thusly, we'd surcome the nattering nabobs of nuttiness, and easily refudiate rancorous rumors.
Meanwhile, from the political playground:
When Palin removed her campaign site and issued statements along the line of 'we never intended, we never meant...', while media replayed snippets of Giffords' warning to Palin that inflammatory speech and imagery have consequences, we witnessed Palin's Chappaquiddick moment. She may regain and expand influence, but she'll never be President. And Sunday's breeze through Capitol's stale corridors was the collective bipartisan sigh of relief.
Giffords' YouTube channel showed that she only subscribed to two channels, former Congressman Ike Skelton's – and Jared Lee Loughner's. The intellectually curious crossing the intellectually challenged. This flaw on the prevailing narrative has been fixed.
@J
"CA with 36 mil.people + is like 10% more Demo (or more) than GOP/TP. NY's close to that."
In addition, these 2 states are among the biggest failures, 1 and 2 respectively, in terms of debt and awful business climate. Congratulations. The dems have been in control in these 2 shining examples for years! Amazing, the independent thinking behind all that social largesse. The formula? Overpromise, underdeliver, point fingers.
" ... while the story isn't over yet, it's looking more and more like the guy was a general nutjob, without any coherent ideology ..."
This is a bunch of horseshit and I totally disagree with this characterization. It is not supported by the known facts.
This killer did have an ideology, and that ideology has been described to the media in extraordinary detail by the the friends who knew him the best.
He has been described by many of his friends as a pot-smoking liberal.
Not a Tea Partier.
Not a Republican.
He is a liberal.
That's how his friends have described his ideology to the media.
So get your facts straight somefeller.
Is that Birgeneau email real? It reads almost like a parody.
The democrats, after losing big in the 2010 election, are desperate for an issue. Please let Loughner be a conservative! He must be a conservative who listens to Rush Limbaugh and reads the campaign blog of one Sarah Palin. Please!
I'm sure right after Loughner put down his leftist fascist communist progressive reading material, he turned on Rush Limbaugh. Sure. of. it.
Yes, a brief perusal of new sites allows us to see the elected left has responded to this in 3 ways:
1. Deliberately lying about the association of the shooter with the "tea party" or "conservatives"
2. Call for regulation of free speech and the Internet
3. Call for more regulation of firearms.
This is just like last time...
No, jaybird, yr the idiot j*wboy.
Lets lay some shekels down, tough guy, on Rush's ridiculous claim that the TP outnumbers the Demos, eh? 50 bucks. And you promise to remove yr skanky Kissinger wannabe a** from Althouse when yr proven wrong, like manana.
YOu're a liar, jaybird. And you do that everyday . Even that phony Franken knows the score on Windbaugh.
"You may piss the bed when Obama references The Untouchables, but I don't."
Jesus Christ. What a freaking dumbass. Not a single person is pissing the bed about this. It is nothing more than a example of the hypocrisy of those blowing a gasket about Palin. How is this so hard for you to understand? Ann needs to create a Moby tag for all of these commentators.
Revenant, it is real. I received it earlier today (as a member of the Berkeley campus community).
Why couldn't you both have gone to Auburn? That way Oregon would win, similar to what happened last year. You'd be stuck in the ice, but I'm sure you know how to drive. You'd have the barner streets to yourselves.
Note that Chancellor Birgeneau sheds not a tear for beleaguered tax payers, whatever their race, color or creed. Of course not, they must SACRIFICE ALL till SOCIAL JUSTICE is done.
I saw the way both Fox and MSNBC rushed to place blame on the other side.
From what I saw, Wolf Blitzer on CNN was trying really hard to link the shooting to the right. MSNBC and Fox were being more objective.
Remember that gu who stabbed a Muslim cabbie in New York and everyone tried to blame Glenn Beck but the stabber turned out to be some total weenielib?
If folks have a problem w/ Birgeneau, there are other options.
Or, maybe you're a hoity-toity, elitist con.
Victoria said...
If the righties were totally blameless, they should have taken the high road. But they didn't, they slung mud and assigned blame along wit the left.
So in other words, you wish the righties had brought a knife to a gun fight?
One thing that all the people calling for moderation of speech so as not to incite crazy people clearly demonstrate is their profound lack of understanding of what craziness is. Having worked in a mental health center for 5 years where some of patients were paranoid schizophrenics and paranoid personalities, of which at least one had committed murder (his mother), I can tell you it doesn't take any rhetoric for these people to get incited.
Where do they get the idea others can read their minds? That multitudes of other people are watching them? That the government is tracking them where ever they go? And the endless stream of other delusional thoughts? Political rhetoric has nothing to do with it. Crazy people are CRAZY!
To promote the idea that we can stop crazy people from doing crazy things by watching our language in political debate is crazy in itself. And stupid.
"Remember that gu who stabbed a Muslim cabbie in New York and everyone tried to blame Glenn Beck but the stabber turned out to be some total weenielib?"
Jared Lee Laughner favorited flag-burning videos. He read Marx. Listed Mein Kampf as one of his favorite works of literature - along with The Communist Manifesto.
In broad daylight he murdered a federal judge appointed by George W. Bush and shot - at point blank range in the head - a pro-gun former lifelong Republican lawmaker who had just voted against Nancy Pelosi for Democrat leader.
Jared Lee Laughner had an ideology.
He was a committed liberal.
Willing to kill 9-year-old children to advance the cause of liberalism.
J: Amigo!! Anti-Semetic nightmare man!! Back at work today and alreay pissed off? Working for someone dumber than you? It's only Monday, dude, and the Jews and conservatives are pulling way way ahead. My biggest nightmare. Ha.
As a graduate of UC Berkeley, they can say goodbye to any more $ from me. Also Chancellor Birgeneau can kiss my conservative ass.
yashu - That letter from the Berkeley chancellor's a beaut.
...We must work to support dialogue about our differences and eschew expressions of demonization of others...
...unless of course they're the sort of sub-human spawns-of-hell who'd dare to have a difference of opinion with us about some legislation:
...This same mean-spirited xenophobia played a major role in the defeat of the Dream Act by our legislators in Washington...
No doubt Chancellor Birgeneau's a big, big fan of toning down the hate and re-introducing respect and civility into the public square.
Mikhey, naive Jewish conservatives/GOP who think John Roberts & Co, Boehner, the teabuggers are their allies may be in for a shocker soon. (and im not the one flying a swazi).
Anyway, Rush made another egregious error--claiming the TP (not the GOP as a whole) outnumbers the Democrats . Not the Ann Nuthouse gang minds.
Dad,
How do folks end up in the looney bin (sorry, I don't know the euphemism; Mental Health Detention Facility?)
Could this guy have been locked up, w/o having hurt anyone, first? Would his outbursts in school be enough?
Assuming these folks do go to the looney bin (by choice or not), who pays for this sort of detention? What if the parents are tapped? Does the gov get stuck w/ the (presumably substantial) bill? Does the tab keep running for as long as these folks live?
I'm guessing that the states are too broke to pay for this stuff. And, I'd assume many families can't handle the costs themselves. Maybe health insurance pays this stuff?
Would Rs/cons be willing to increase gov funding for this stuff?
BRYAN PRESTON: “Clicking through images of Jared Lee Loughner’s backyard skull shrine, linked from Drudge. I’m not seeing a Gadsden flag.”
http://bit.ly/gYyizK
Exactly....
Crazy people are CRAZY!
Could it be that the shooter a complete fucking lunatic whose ideas are utterly indiscernable? Could it that he’s a full-blown schizophrenic who’s no more responsible for his actions than is a newborn infant? And maybe the people closest to him — his family, his former school, local law enforcement — were wildly irresponsible in not seeing him confined and treated? That he was given to causing disturbances that involved security personnel and resulted in numerous reports, and no actions? That perhaps Mr. Loughner is a textbook example of Not Guilty By Reason Of Insanity, and though he may never see the inside of a penitentiary, will surely spend the rest of his sad life confined in a State psychiatric hospital, which is even worse?
These speculations in no way absolve Sara Palin of ultimate responsibility, I should point out. I mean, what would be the point in that?
bagoh20: The left has stepped in it so bad on this one. That's one of the problems with reacting to everything with your emotions first, and sometimes only. It just makes a wingnut feel good about the future in so many ways. Keep it up you fools...please keep it up. You can't help it anyway, so just let it out.
Ha.
I'd like to think that hallucinating quotidian martial metaphors into incitements to violence really was rock bottom for the poor 'bats derangement - and the healing could begin! But I dunno. Somehow I think there just gonna keep bringin' on the crazy. Because, as you say, they just can't help themselves.
J: You antisemitic piece of dung, how are you? On or off the meds? Early in the week for a mental crisis but already your posts are, shall we say, a bit off. Hipster, dude, antisemitic striver, its tough keeping up isn't it. I recommend not eating the roaches but that's just me.
Could this guy have been locked up, w/o having hurt anyone, first?
Someone would have to commit him first, which is a pain in the ass. This is why I suspect that jackass sheriff is playing desperation offense.
Is this a flame war thread?
"which is a pain in the ass."
As it should be, from the POV of a libertarian minded con, or a civil liberties minded lib. Presumably, it shouldn't be easy for the gov (or others) to lock up an adult against their will. Right?
Please put up an image of a duck or something!
Penn Jillette, a man known for his ability to call bullshit, tweeted earlier today:
Fuck Civility. Hyperbole, passion, and metaphor are beautiful parts of rhetoric. Marketplace of ideas can not be toned down for the insane.
Best thing I've read in 3 days on the matter of "civility."
The left abandoned "civility" decades ago, and have been ratcheting it up ever since. At some point, the high road runs out, and that's where I am.
Fuck civility! This is a fight, and I intend to fight it. Fuck you, language police! If I want to target a political campaign in a war of ideas, then I will fire at will and blow my enemy out of the water. I will run them through with lances and slice them with swords. I will kick ass, take names and sever heads until I walk over their bodies to reach for the flag of political victory. I will use every bit of warlike and combative language I damn well please, and I will call bullshit nose to nose with you when I see it. I will be so fucking insensitive and hurtful to your feelings that you'll curl up like the whiny little bitches you are.
Seriously. You libs can shove it right back up your asses where it came from. I'm not giving an inch, because I've had to fight through a decade of your political abuse to get this far. I'm gonna keep right on going, and if that means going straight though you, that's what I'll do. Hell, I'll go through you so fast, I'll skullfuck ya for free.
I will drive through you like the Khan's hordes, guiding my horse with my legs and shooting arrow after arrow into bullseye after bullseye. I will leave like Crazy Horse left Custer; spiked with arrows and unmanned.
I'm gonna grab my AK, load a bunch of clips, slap one in, lock 'n' load and take you and your scum sonsabitches down. You will lose. You will cry. Your women will know you're weak and your men will be fucking sheep for solace.
Did I mention the skullfucking?
All metaphorically, of course, and within the arena of politics.
Fuck all y'all on the left. You started this. We'll finish it.
The list omits Eric Rudolph. The left totally tried to pin that on the right.
I'm seriously starting to get a "Duke Lacrosse" sense from all of this (although there was a real crime this time).
I mean the media is shamelessly making up facts and reporting any and every rumor they hear in order to slime a group they don't like. Instead of reporting the facts they are pushing a narrative.
Meanwhile the narrative becomes more and more removed from reality as the evidence piling up directly contradicts the media's claims.
At the same time a public servant (Dupnik) is running around playing media whore. He's making all sorts of outrageous statements with no evidence and doing so, seemingly, for political gain (although if reports are true it might be just to cover up gross incompetence).
If this continues to follow the Duke model then Althouse is probably correct that this will backfire on the left (especially Dupnik who is quickly becoming the face of the unhinged people using this tragedy). Although, as in the Duke case, the media personalities are not likely to suffer any serious harm to their careers.
"Could it be that the shooter a complete fucking lunatic whose ideas are utterly indiscernable?"
That's possible, but we already know that's not true in this case.
The killer's ideas were very discernible.
He was a liberal.
He liked flag-burning videos.
He said that among his favorite works of literature was The Communist Manifesto.
His friends say he was "very liberal."
He shot someone in the head who had just days before had voted against Nancy Pelosi. Just days before.
His murderous anger didn't bubble up until after the mid-terms.
He murdered a federal judge appointed by the hated George W. Bush.
The Congresswoman for most of her life was a Republican. She was very supportive of the military ... in fact was married to a military man and astronaut.
Most political observers saw her as very conservative. The hated NRA supported her. She was a member of the Blue Dog Democrats who are hated by the liberal caucus.
These are very discernible, easily-discoverable facts that have been reported repeatedly by the media.
A liberal tried to assassinate one of their own not towing the liberal line. Happens all the time: JFK, RFK, McGovern, Ryan.
Very discernible indeed.
DaveW said...
Is this a flame war thread?
Flame war.
Chef Mojo: Fuck you, language police!...[etc.]
Preach it, brother.
As it should be, from the POV of a libertarian minded con, or a civil liberties minded lib. Presumably, it shouldn't be easy for the gov (or others) to lock up an adult against their will. Right?
No. I didn't say that. It should be a pain in the ass. In fact, in some cases, it should be harder. For instance, it is not at all unusual for a someone, in the throws of an ugly divorce, to commit the spouse out of malignity or for a nasty edge in a custody fight. A signature can get the bitch (or bastard) locked a way for 72 hours for "evaluation."
However, it's easier, from a law enforcement point of view, to let an obvious lunatic out of the clink and back into school if you know he has some negligent parents to go home to. From a public safety point of view, it's Russian roulette.
"Penn Jillette, a man known for his ability to call bullshit"
Whateva.
Big deal.
The guy has a full (non-digital) copy of the OED. That's cool.
Well, maybe not exactly 'cool,' in the common sense. But, it rox! In it's own way.
1jpb - Psychiatrists can temporarily commit someone who is a danger to himself or others. There are state psychiatric hospitals available in most large cities. Our mental health center used a psych ward at the University of Tennessee hospital.
Payment is done by Medicaid, Medicare, private insurance, the patient or patient's family depending on the patient's circumstances.
I've read some claims that the sheriff dropped the ball on complaints against Loughner that would have put Loughner on the can't buy a gun list, in jail, in the psych ward or all three because Loughner had a family member that works for Pima County. It'll be interesting to see what comes of this info. Can you say "lawsuit" for dereliction of duty?
"This is why I suspect that jackass sheriff is playing desperation offense."
That sheriff - and the county prosecutor - should have had the fucking punk in jail already for his multiple drug offenses and death threats.
Instead, they let him out to kill with nothing but a slap on the wrist.
Sherriff Dupenik has blood on his hands and I certainly hope that the people of Pima County will do the right thing and retire this doddering old fuck before more 9-year-old girls have to die owing to his ineptness as a law enforcement officer.
Chef Mojo: Now we're talking.
Crazy people are everyday stuff. Crazy guys need serious meds to deal with their emotional hangups. But the trap for the SlanderMachine Dems here is that Loughner is not just another crazy man. He is a Charles Manson type. No one can be blamed for those guys except the presence of an evil power. And everybody sees now that is what happened in Tuscon. It is also of interest that the Charles Manson types have talents that are seen as valuable to others. But in the end no one can controls them.
"I will drive through you like the Khan's hordes ... "
Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnn!
"No one can be blamed for those guys except the presence of an evil power."
I disagree.
I think we can blame Barack Obama. After all, he urged his followers to bring a gun to the fight.
So the "very liberal" Laughner brought a gun. He was only doing what Barack Obama urged his followers to do:
He got in Gabby's face.
He punched her twice as hard.
He brought a gun to the fight.
He punished his enemies.
Is this not what Barack Obama has been urging his followers to do?
There is blame to be laid.
It is Barack Obama's fault.
I do think in the end that one of the big stories that will arise from this is the Pima County Sheriff's department failing to follow up on repeated warnings and complaints about Jared Loughner, because, apparently, his mother worked for the county, and then the Sheriff starting off this debate as to whether Sarah Palin was responsible for Loughner's actions.
In retrospect, it sure looks like the Sheriff was trying to divert attention from his own role in the shootings. After all, who really has more culpability here? The politician who put cross-hairs (according to Palin's people, of surveying equipment) over the congressional district (but not over a picture of the candidate herself)? Or the head of the law enforcement agency who failed to follow up on apparently numerous indications that Loughner was a danger to society?
Chef Mojo, totally concur!
Except for the skullfucking part.
But you can take AlphaLiberal and do what you will.
"He is a Charles Manson type."
Did Manson kill w/ words? That is did he encourage others to kill, rather than kill himself?
Maybe words motivate folks to kill?
BTW - here is a link to a copy of the SarahPAC map that supposedly caused the shooting. Decide for yourself whether this is the sort of thing that would incite this level of violence.
"Maybe words motivate folks to kill?"
I wonder if when Barack Obama told people to "get in their faces" and "punch them twice as hard" whether Mr. Laughner was listening.
Maybe when Barack Obama's words were instructions to bring a gun to the knife fight maybe that actually caused someone to bring a gun. Since that's what Barack said to do.
Maybe when Barack Obama told his followers to punish their enemies maybe somebody was listening and decided to punish his enemies.
Do words kill?
Do President's kill?
I'm starting to think that yes, Barack Obama can urge people to kill. And that some people are listening.
And that because of this a 9-year-old innocent girl is dead.
Florida,
See my 6:04 comment re gun/knife.
Youngblood said...
Edutcher,
The suggestion that I offered, which you didn't quote, was for people on the Right to stand up and say, "No, this is a shameless and cynical lie intended to shame us into silence."
Instead of doing that, the Right has decided to shamelessly and cynically lie to shame their opposition into silence.
You may piss the bed when Obama references The Untouchables, but I don't.
I have yet to hear of the Right, except maybe Florida (who is more giving the Left ammo with her invective than lying), lie about this. All the lies are coming from the Left, including mobies like Youngblood.
somefeller said...
You may piss the bed when Obama references The Untouchables, but I don't.
Actually, edutcher pisses the bed for lots of reasons, commentary from President Obama being only one.
Though the Obama reference was a dumb one and unpresidential. Not to mention not very convincing, even to many of his allies.
Some phony folksy and the rest of the Lefties here, having had their little blood libel explode in their faces with the exposure who really wallows in the imagery of violence, now feel obliged to backtrack from The Zero's Alinskyite rhetoric of 2 years ago. Uncle Saul has been their Bible for 40 years. It must be devastating to them to know their game is finally over.
BTW, my continence is just fine, but, as we all know, Lefties always project.
If you haven't read the story of Dorwan and Mavy Stoddard, go get yourself a handful of tissues and sit down with this one.
"The whole point of complaining about this sort of speech is that you're supposed to be worried that folks will take these comments literally."
Ummm, no, I don't think so. It seems as though the left complains about this sort of speech because they apparently think it will be taken literally, or at least that is the thesis they want to advance.
The right, on the other hand, thinks this thesis is silly, that such speech has no such effect. Additionally, the right thinks the left are a bunch of great big hypocritical crybabies for indulging in the very thing they are allegedly so horrified by.
I am tired of it all, and favor Chef Mojo's recommendations,
Paco,
Thanks for the clarification.
But you're wasting words. How about:
Libs always bad. Cons always good.
I wonder if such blind dedication could help explain why the Rs are always fooling you folks?
You've boxed yourselves in. No where to go, because your side is perfect, and the other is evil.
A recipe for being taken advantage of. Over, and over, and ov.......
If you haven't read the story of Dorwan and Mavy Stoddard, go get yourself a handful of tissues and sit down with this one.
victoria: No jal, i was awake. I saw the way both Fox and MSNBC rushed to place blame on the other side
Examples of FOX doing so? I heard them all day. FOX NEVER tried to place blame on the other side. In fact, most of their commentary was how the Left had a different standard ("wait and see before mouthing off") whenever the bomber/shooter is muslim.
So put up or shut up. Provide examples that FOX was doing what the Left was. Back it up with more than just false assertion and wishful thinking
How much wood could a paco pogo chuck if a paco pogo could chuck wood?
I'm freestylin.
Maybe Crack will sign me.
Or, maybe this is a bad time to start making idiotic senseless comments on the tubes.
Who knows, that could be grounds for commitment.
Beats me. Not sure how the R's are 'fooling' me, as I only vote for them about half the time. But your projection is a wonder to behold.
Paco,
Why would you vote for "a bunch of great big hypocritical crybabies" half of the time?
mesquito said...
"Anyone else find it creepy that new standard what me may and may not say is: How will it affect the behavior of an abviously crazy person who may or may not hear it?"
Uh, yes. That and I can't complain about the democrats screwing us without the fear that I'll get in trouble for something I didn't do (like shoot up a room full of people)...
You're saying Democrats are a bunch of crybabies?
Your words, not mine.
As a registered Dem, I'm offended.
Provide examples that FOX was doing what the Left was.
Didn't Fox do just the opposite, in fact? They reported, apparently incorrectly, that the government had evidence that Loughner had ties to white supremacist groups.
"You're saying Democrats are a bunch of crybabies?"
Actually, I do say that. And, the same for the Rs.
One of my absolute favorite characteristics of Rs was that they weren't sissy babies. Not so much anymore: "Poor me...Lamestream media...MSNBC...blah blah blah....."
I apologize (w/o retracting my opinion) for offending both sides. I should be more thoughtful, because of your your crybaby sensitivities.
Rev,
I don't think you're supposed to admit that white supremacist are part of conservative thought.
Just sayin.
Did Manson kill w/ words? That is did he encourage others to kill, rather than kill himself?
Yes, he did. Manson, himself, never killed anyone by his own hand. But, he sure got some others to kill some people.
@victoria 6:50 I saw the way both Fox and MSNBC rushed to place blame on the other side.
And what did Fox say to blame who for what?
It bums me out a little bit when all your lists leave off Schwenkler, the Denver activist who vandalized the Denver DNC headquarters under a poorly executed (is that word allowed in polite company?) false flag operation. The right was blamed for that, no need to apologize, it's an understandable mistake given how violent they're known to be.
pbj: Paco,
Thanks for the clarification.
But you're wasting words. How about:
Libs always bad. Cons always good.
I wonder if such blind dedication could help explain why the Rs are always fooling you folks? Blabbity blah, blabbity blah [continued non sequitur]
Ya know, your comment had no logical connection to Paco's. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. Whoosh. Built too low to catch the high ones.
Seriously, do you even understand natural language? Words mean things. Words strung together in certain ways mean certain things, not other things, and everyone except for the few people with very rare mutations in genes controlling grammar are supposed to be able to logically process the meaning in clear, straightforward language like that just used by Paco.
But I wonder. Sometimes I really bleedin' wonder. And I'm startin' to wonder if the real problem isn't partisan disingenuousness or dickheadedness but a real physical problem with language that's manifested in the weird, logically out-of-phase responses and the pathological literal-mindedness infesting the land.
And that's why people freak on the metaphors. Because they don't freakin' understand them. It's a mystery to them. Because what was once normal non-literal human language is a lost skill with substantial numbers of people, and the simple abstractions that have been the possession of Homo probably since Homo was Homo, now come at them like weird alien gibberish, which frustrates and frightens them. Og hear strange talk. Og hear war talk. Og freak and start screeching and hooting and banging pans.
Jus' sayin'. Just something I've noticed.
"I should be more thoughtful, because of your your crybaby sensitivities."
Really. You Internet Tough Guys should be more careful.
Chip,
How about cutting a B in your own face?
And, then blaming it on blacks. BHO blacks, to be specific.
The Congresswomen recently read the 1st Amendment during the reading of the Constitution in the House, so does anyone else think it is shameful to use her shooting as an excuse to diminish that same 1st Amendment that she clearly loved?
Ang,
Thanks for the advice.
BTW, could you help us figure out what this guy was reading. [But, only the edited version.]
We're on the edge of our seats.
...for a better and safer nation.
This is always the rationale offered for restrictions on free speech. The left in this country are fascists, pure and simple.
"Chip,
How about cutting a B in your own face?
And, then blaming it on blacks."
Oh my. You're obviously up waaay past your bedtime. Your reading comprehension is gone (assuming it was ever there) and now you're just getting cranky.
Nighty-nite.
Do I think the shooter enjoys the brouhaha that is ongoing?
Yes.
I just skipped all the lefty comments. They can't make me listen to their garbage. They can go fuck themselves.
Libtard: I don't think you're supposed to admit that black supremacists are part of liberal thought.
/fixed
And its just as non-sensical as your unedited statement.
@1jpb
I don't think you're supposed to admit that white supremacist are part of conservative thought.
Keep digging man, your side is on a China Syndrome roll for 2012.
Fen,
How hard was it to type 'liberal' instead of 'libtard'?
BTW, has 'libtard' been Palin certified?
"we witnessed Palin's Chappaquiddick moment."
Behold amoral leftist relativism in its full flower. Palin's map with its printer's registration marks is equivalent in this person's mind to Fat Ted's vehicular manslaughter and subsequent cover-up.
How hard was it to type 'liberal' instead of 'libtard'?
Why? They are two different words with two different meanings.
You folks are so uptight.
Rev wrote something w/o fully grasping the implications. So, I 'needled' (an Althouse word) him.
Don't get so wee-wee'd up. You're cons, not sissy libs. Practice this: "I am conservative, hear me roar!!"
Fen,
Which is worse?
You folks are so uptight.
Excuse me for being so uptight. I and millions of other Americans have been accused of being horrible, nasty murderers the last 48 hours.
Rev, I don't think you're supposed to admit that white supremacist are part of conservative thought. Just sayin.
In the sense that people who favor legalized homosexual child rape are part of liberal thought, sure. :)
Which is worse?
A Liberal is someone who has an honest disagreement with my values and politics.
A Libtard is someone who argues in bad faith. As in your case, by trying to marginalize conservative principles in falsely asserting that they are the party of white supremacists.
If you don't like the Libtard tag, don't behave like one.
You libs got a little uppity over the weekend, now you're on the mat and we're putting the boot in. What's wrong with that?
Reading these comments it shows yet again conservatives are thee most fucking retarded people on earth.
I and millions of other Americans have been accused of being horrible, nasty murderers the last 48 hours.
To say nothing of all the vitriol they spew at us for being "racist sexist homophobes" etc.
Its almost as if the Left *wants* to radicalize us. Maybe they have a death wish.
People like Olbermann et al barely hit my radar. I didn't begin to despise the Left until I encountered their brownshirts on sites like Democrat Underground and HuffPo.
"To say nothing of all the vitriol they spew at us for being "racist..."
You just wrote that black supremacists are folks who have an honest disagreement w/ you. But, I'm on a lower rung than the black supremacists.
So you've accused me of being worse than a racist.
Do I whine about this? No. I'm very amused by your comments. Why is that? Because I know it's not true.
Why do you react so differently?
"Reading these comments it shows yet again conservatives are thee most fucking retarded people on earth."
Stand tall and proud, GM. That was a truly brilliant insight. Continue to make all Liberals proud.
Triangle Man said...
The list omits Eric Rudolph. The left totally tried to pin that on the right.
"The episode led to soul-searching among news organizations about the use of unattributed or anonymously sourced information. Jewell's name became shorthand for a person accused of wrongdoing in the media based on scanty information."
JAL said...
"And what did Fox say to blame who for what?"
Anyway, your on the right track. Powerlineblog wrote that fox also implied he was influenced by conservative thoughts...
When it comes down to it, the talking heads and managers at fox are conservatives... but the reporters are not.
Really, garage? Other than Florida (who I suspect is a moby, in any case a troll), who are "thee most fucking retarded people on earth"-- according to you, conservatives-- commenting in this & related threads? And what's so "fucking retarded" about the views they're expressing here? This is not a rhetorical question: I'd like to know.
It is so refreshing to now know that I and my lefty cohort are no longer considered peace seeking, gun averse, man-pantless pussies! Hallelujah! Now y'all'll vote for us, right?
SH, victoria wrote that she heard Fox rush "place the blame on the other side."
I don't know who or what Fox said.
Her implication is quite clear, as I am sure victoria does not think Fox and MSNBC are on the "same side."
So I want to know. Who did victoria hear Fox place the blame on. Who was Fox's "other side."
A quote from a transcript would be nice, but just something a leeetle bit specific would be refreshing.
Then we could debate the facts, not the feelings, innuendos and lucid dreaming on display. Or maybe continue to debate the [demonstrably] "fake but accurate" narrative of the Left.
That last line gets a /s.
wv gooness
Don't think I want to go there.
"The episode led to soul-searching among news organizations about the use of unattributed or anonymously sourced information. Jewell's name became shorthand for a person accused of wrongdoing in the media based on scanty information."
The average journalist is a mental midget who only seeks sound bites, easy explanations, and superficial analysis. Watch your local news, watch the national news, watch MSNBC, CNN, FOX and any other news source.
Do these people ever say anything profound, insightful or other than the most obvious and superficial. No. My teenage kids and their teenage friends have more insight into events than these air heads.
wv - porks - wtf, this is too easy.
Mesquito wrote:
Anyone else find it creepy that new standard what me may and may not say is: How will it affect the behavior of an abviously crazy person who may or may not hear it?
I would find it creepy if in fact it were real. However, this is only being used because libs think they can get some traction out of it, as they do with any tragedy that involves someone being killed. That's their modus operandi.
But let the discusssion turn to Hollywood and it's promoting rampant violence and sex, and let someone suggest that Hollywood is responsible for sexualizing children and turning them into desensitized vioent people and you'll get the argument that it's just a movie and Hollywood can't be responsible for the actions of a crazy person who happened to watch said movie.
You have to remember, the libs of the world argue nothing based on actual conviction or a moral center. It's all about expediency. So todays argument about how people should be responsible for the words that might incite crazies will tomorrow be the exact opposite argument, and then will be the same argument and then the opposite.
But let the discusssion turn to Hollywood and it's promoting rampant violence and sex, and let someone suggest that Hollywood is responsible for sexualizing children and turning them into desensitized vioent people and you'll get the argument that it's just a movie and Hollywood can't be responsible for the actions of a crazy person who happened to watch said movie.
The difference being that, when they argue that they aren't turning kids into desensitized violent people, they're right.
Skokum John 10.50 PM: "we witnessed Palin's Chappaquiddick moment."
'Behold amoral leftist relativism in its full flower. Palin's map with its printer's registration marks is equivalent in this person's mind to Fat Ted's vehicular manslaughter and subsequent cover-up.'
Palin's Chappaquiddick moment occurred because she hastily removed an ordinary, run of the mill website, as if there was something wrong with it, then protested her innocence in ways that sounded guilty. Liberal media gleefully contrasted this with Giffords' criticism.
Palin, no novice in public life, should know that if you act and sound halfway guilty, your opponents will paint you guilty, and make it stick, facts notwithstanding. She appears to have but a tenuous grasp on national politics, Washington DC style; that's her excuse, but also her verdict. If she still harbors ambitions of high offices, Chicago is an excellent grooming place.
The difference being that, when they argue that they aren't turning kids into desensitized violent people, they're right.
Can you prove that?
The level of violence, blood, gore, cruelty, sadism and all that in movies is far beyond what it was when I was growing up. If violence is no worse now than it was then (1950s and 19060s) then why should we be concerned about the shootings in Tuscon other than it is another tragic but passing incident.
Carl,
The reason Kennedy could never live down Chappaquiddick isn't because he mishandled the politics of situation, but because he killed a woman while driving drunk.
When you're innocent of wrongdoing -- which, in regards to the shooting, Palin is -- you can eventually bounce back from acting like an idiot.
This is actulaly right out of the Manchurian candidate (the original, not the crappy remake with Denzel). Only instead of the manchurian candidate being an agent of the chinese, he is instead an agent of the tea partiers. And 99% of the time he's your avergage pot smoking leftist truther who likes dreaming about unicorns. But the Tea Partiers have brain washed him to be an assassin. He just needs to know who the targets are. Which is where the cross hairs come in. Palin is laying out the targets that must be snuffed out. And the trigger is when Paln says "You betcha!". That sends the assassins out to murder their targets, not even realizing that they are in fact killers.
Its very scary indeed.
Can you prove that?
Since the mid-90s, when Pulp Fiction and Natural Born Killers hit the theaters and id software pioneered graphically violent first-person shooter videogames, the juvenile violent crime rate has fallen by 45%.
2004 had the lowest rate of juvenile violent crime since we started tracking it after WW2. Despite being steeped in sex and violence from every part of their culture, today's teenagers are less violent than both their parents and their grandparents.
If violence is no worse now than it was then (1950s and 19060s) then why should we be concerned about the shootings in Tuscon
I'm not.
It is funny, though, that you cite the 1950s and 1960s as some sort of halcyon bygone era. The juvenile crime rate was a source of constant concern throughout the 1950s and peaked in 1968, with juveniles responsible for 22% of violent crimes and 55% (yes, the majority) of serious property crimes.
I distinctly remember, when I was a kid, people talking about how you used to be able to leave your doors unlocked at night but things are different now.
Now, much later, I hear people my age talking about how you used to be able to leave your doors unlocked at night but things are different now.
I suggest that people in the 1950s talked about how you used to be able to leave your doors unlocked at night but things are different now.
There's a fascinating thesis here, about the Fall of Man as some kind of automatic psychological device. I won't get into it.
For those who missed the memo (Edutcher and Jeff, maybe some others):
A moby is someone on the Left who pretends to be a Right-wing extremist for the purpose of spreading rumors or adopting extremist positions to make the others engaged in discussion look bad.
I'm basically a Goldwater Conservative -- I favor small government, I'm fairly libertarian on social issues, and I'm hawkish on national defense. If I were adopting an extremist position to discredit the others here, I'd be doing a pretty shitty job of it.
I'm not spreading rumors or anything, either. I'm just sick of the fairly recent tendency of other conservatives to play the cynical bullshit victim game. That's Gramsci's game -- the Left's game. It's Marxist class war by other means.
I reject that. I think that it's sufficient to:
1.) Point out that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Loughner was influenced in any way by Sarah Palin or the Right more generally, and attempts to pin his crime on them is shameless exploitation of a genuine tragedy.
2.) Point out that electoral politics lends itself to "violent" or "militant" metaphors, and they're no big deal when they come from either side. Because they're fucking metaphors.
This shit ain't hard.
Youngblood is pushing the same line as PB&J and some phony folksy, and then says Instead of doing that, the Right has decided to shamelessly and cynically lie to shame their opposition into silence..
As he says, "A moby is someone on the Left who pretends to be a Right-wing extremist for the purpose of spreading rumors or adopting extremist positions to make the others engaged in discussion look bad.".
Anyone can call themselves a "Goldwater Conservative". Actually acting like one is a different story.
the juvenile violent crime rate has fallen by 45%.
I didn't ask you to prove the crime rate had fallen, but to prove when Hollywood argues that they aren't turning kids into desensitized violent people, they're right. There may be a host of other reasons the juvenile crime rate went down.
Youngblood,
Please point to any conservative at Althouse (other than Florida) or in the MSM at large, who has done anything other than (in your own exact words) "point out that"
(1) "there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Loughner was influenced in any way by Sarah Palin or the Right more generally"
(2) "attempts to pin his crime on them is shameless exploitation of a genuine tragedy"
(3) "electoral politics lends itself to 'violent' or 'militant' metaphors, and they're no big deal when they come from either side. Because they're fucking metaphors."
I presume, following your own argument, that you would not accuse a conservative merely expressing point (2)-- that "attempts to pin his crime on them is shameless exploitation of a genuine tragedy"-- to be "play[ing] the cynical bullshit victim game." At least, not without falling prey to a blatant contradiction. I mean, call me crazy, but having one's conscientiously held political views (say, on a certain piece of legislation) expressly blamed for *mass murder* by the MSM-- not marginal outlets, but CNN & the NYT (& chancellors of major universities) etc.-- without any grounds whatsoever (and indeed plentiful evidence to the contrary), seems to me to justify some righteous indignation. A righteous indignation that I presume you would not not reduce (as 1jpb would) to "crybaby sensitivities."
1jpb: You just wrote that black supremacists are folks who have an honest disagreement w/ you. But, I'm on a lower rung than the black supremacists.
Uh no. Try reading it again, slower this time.
youngblood: For those who missed the memo (Edutcher and Jeff, maybe some others):
[...]
...I'm just sick of the fairly recent tendency of other conservatives to play the cynical bullshit victim game[...]
I reject that. I think that it's sufficient to:[...]
[repeat repeat repeat]
This shit ain't hard.
While saying the same thing over and over is an excellent method for persuading others of your wisdom and insight, sometimes with the unusually obtuse and recalcitrant it's necessary to bring out the big guns. I'd recommend reposting your comment in all caps. I'm sure that'll set 'em all nodding and murmuring.
Happy Birthday Althouse & Limbaugh!
"Try reading it again, slower this time."
It won't help.
Reading these comments it shows yet again conservatives are thee most fucking retarded people on earth.
vicki from pasadena's not conservative
@jr565 nicely done. I refer to your 1:20 AM post. I'll look for its echoes in the New York Times today.
They are now trying to distance themselves from their violent, "Second Amendment" rhetoric
...and not(as usual) taking any sort of responsibility for their own actions.
I don't feel the need to cast blame on anyone.
Vicki from Pasadena
Your birthday? Well, Happy Birthday Professor!
garage said Reading these comments it shows yet again conservatives are thee most fucking retarded people on earth.
garage, didn't you tell me once that you have no liberal friends and all your buddies are conservatives?
Do your buddies know you think they're retarded or were you just lying before?
Allens: It's the big 6OTH for the professor and Rush.
They only have to be right once.
Back to the shooting outrage. This sheriff Dupnik, or Dumbnut, or whatever his name is, the worse thing about his initial blame game nonsense, makes me wonder, how many people has he put in jail, because he had no evidence, but he just had a thought someone was guilty?
I thought the birthday was tomorrow, the 12th. That's when my Dad turns 88.
Allen: Back to the shooting outrage. This sheriff Dupnik, or Dumbnut, or whatever his name is, the worse thing about his initial blame game nonsense, makes me wonder, how many people has he put in jail, because he had no evidence, but he just had a thought someone was guilty?
From what I've been reading, Dupnik dropped the ball on the shooter - several opportunities to flag this guy as mental and ban him from buying firearms and ammo.
Its the classic deflection we saw from Nagin and Blanco during Katrina.
Hoosier Daddy wrote:
Do your buddies know you think they're retarded or were you just lying before?
to tie this into another thread, Garage is like the lonely kid with autism that was befriended by the cool kid who Kathy Gifford wrote a song about (and was ragged on by Howard Stern for). Garage is that autistic kid. ANd the conservatives who are his friends feel sorry for him. Kathy should write a song about it.
Just think! If this cretin were 50 years older and forgot to take his weapon off "safe," Obama would be holding cocktail fundraisers at his house!
Mad Man:
I could be wrong. I thought it was the 11th.
Happy birthday to your Dad as well!
Happy Birthday, MadManDad.
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