I was struck by that passage in Bush's memoir, "Decision Points." Bush, of course, ended up getting criticized for seemingly not "car[ing] about black people," so it's interesting to think that his delays — at least as he presents them now — had to do with the history of the South. But look closely as the 2 concerns that slowed Bush's imposition of federal authority in New Orleans:
1. Gender. Bush didn't like the image of the male pushing the female aside. He thought he'd be criticized for that.
2. "States' rights tensions." That's a strange way to evoke the history of racism in the south if you want to convey that you cared about the suffering of black people. "States' rights" was the cry of those who resisted federal efforts to advance integration. Bush was, in fact, being deferential to the Southern governor.
Bush, sensitive to potential criticism about sexism and states' rights, exercised restraint, which exposed him to criticism about race.
There was rapper Kanye West who told TV viewers: "George Bush doesn't care about black people." Jesse Jackson compared the plight of some survivors with being trapped in the "hull of a slave ship".He feels bad about this criticism and is contemptuous of those who expressed it, but: 1. His own words indicate that he put racism third on a list of 3 things he was worried he'd be criticized for, and 2. Jackson and West were speaking emotionally at the time when the suffering was going on.
"Five years later, I can barely write these words without feeling disgusted. I am deeply insulted by the suggestion that we allowed American citizens to suffer because they were black... The more I thought about it, the angrier I felt. I was raised to believe that racism was one of the greatest evils in society," Bush writes. "I faced a lot of criticism as president. I didn't like hearing people claim I had lied about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction or cut taxes to benefit the rich. But the suggestion that I was a racist, because of the response to Katrina, represented an all-time low. I told Laura at the time that it was the worst moment of my presidency. I feel the same way today."
Meanwhile, Kanye West cracked under pussycat questioning from Matt Lauer.
पोस्ट्स
१३९ टिप्पण्या:
Kanye isn't very bright, is he?
As for Bush, he dithered and the President can't do that. The reasons don't interest me in the least. It all sounds like excuse-making now.
I think you missed his point about the blacks in Katrina. It was not the history of racism that he struggled with, but to be a white President now declaring a black community to be out of control, and then usurping the Governor that they elected. He was concerned with treating Blacks there like they were ungovernable, needing outsiders to rein them in. Another another failing due to political correctness which both Bush Presidents fell victim to.
Thank God that New Orleans is in such great shape now that Bush is no longer President.
Not that New York is any better but I gave up on us years ago when Rudy left and we ended up with Nanny Bloomberg.
We should compare and contrast the conditions of the Carnival Cruise Splendor and the conditions of the New Orleans Convention Center.
At least nobody on the Splendor resorted to cannibalism or shoving dead bodies in the walk-in freezer.
Blanco:
"Federalization would have removed the Guard's law enforcement authority under Posse Comitatus laws, which prevent the U.S. military from assuming police powers on U.S soil, and would have hurt the response more than it helped."
Let's cut to the chase. If Democrat policies were of ANY value, New Orleans would have long-since been the great beacon of America, for it has been run exclusively by Democrats for over 80 years.
Look at the great urban disasters of the USA -- New Orleans, Detroit, DC, Philadelphia, Chicago -- every one of 'em has been ruled by Democrats for generations.
Again, if Democrat policies were even moderately beneficial, all those cities would be vibrant, growing, attractive, dynamic, places ... models to be copied and anchors of America's greatness.
"By their fruit shall ye know them." Democrat fruit is demonstrably as rotten as it is bitter.
That was certainly the low point of BDS, wasn't it?
Leftist Loons are still writing letters to the Woodstock Times two years after Bush left office to scream about Bush's racism.
They just can't get enough of that shit!
And Woodstock is 98% white! A large number of the residents left NYC to put their kids in a practically all white public school system.
Jackson and West were speaking emotionally at the time when the suffering was going on.
Which doesn't make what they said true or acceptable.
Leftist Loons are still writing letters to the Woodstock Times two years after Bush left office to scream about Bush's racism.
It is a distraction from the reality that is the bozo currently occupying the White House.
By bringing up the issue of "states rights" in the context of Katrina, I think what Bush is saying is that if he was too heavy-handed he would have been hammered by the southern right as well as the left, which was going to hammer him on general principle anyway.
I think you're right that having the terms "concern for blacks" and "states rights" in close proximity does raise some eyebrows.
The Katrina thing was the Lefties doing a Tet (non/mis/malfeasance on the part of the media in assessing and reporting) and quickly realizing they could pin it on Dubya. They were aching to bring him down after they were denied their revenge for '00 in '04 and Katrina became a convenient vehicle.
Nagin needed someone to blame for his incompetence and the usual race hustlers just saw a way to inject themselves into the mess because it was a largely black city.
Maguro said...
As for Bush, he dithered...
Actually, he didn't; Blanco and Nagin did. As I noted above, a lot of bad reporting and outright lies were told about Katrina (not unlike the campaign in Iraq) for the purpose of making Dubya look bad.
so it's interesting to think that his delays
Hold on.
Delaying federalizing the National Guard does not equal delaying any sort of assistance.
Bush did not "delay" anything.
Lest we forget the masterful response of Iowahawk:
Floor Ravaged Iowans Idiotically Move On .
I put the blame squarely where it belongs:
On the Democrats that created the evil matrix we lived under for 8 years.
It was the Democrat politicians who squandered the levy money they had.
It was the Democrat governor who cried "feminism".
It was the Democrat blacks who screamed "racism".
it was the Democrat media which refused to tell the truth of what was occurring.
Putting this on Bush is just more of the same - but now we know better.
Like Rush says, they must be destroyed.
he dithered...
Really?
The governor also said that President Bush had telephoned shortly before the 9:30 a.m. press conference began. She said Bush said he was “very concerned about the storm’s impact” and urged Blanco and Nagin to order the evacuation.
Bush did more for the citizens of New Orleans than Nagin & Blanco combined.
GWB sounds like, basically, every modern conservative male that I've ever known and respected, particularly with the sexism considerations.
In my experiences as a professional, it's almost always been the conservative men who are most respectful, deferential, and complementary towards my intelligence and abilities. I don't think that's a coincidence; it's a factor of seeing women as individuals who deserve respect rather than a monolitic group of victims with which to score compassion points.
I feel for him immensely here- there was literally no way that he could have won. It wasn't his job, or within his abilities, to take over, and the Kanyes and Jacksons of the world would hardly have looked better at him if he had tried.
Pooh. You forget that, at the time, raaaaacism (always with five "a"s) was not nearly the bludgeon it has been since.
West and others may very well have been sincerely emotional about it, but the result instantly became a way to deflect criticism from Democrats. Generations of Democratic local politicians had siphoned off flood-control funds, leaving NO subject to damage from what turned out to be a much smaller storm than originally seen. A Democratic Mayor responded to the crisis by pitching the carefully-crafted emergency plan out the window, resulting in abandonment of readily-available means of evacuation (among other things). A Democratic Congressman diverted rescue efforts to salvage personal possessions, among them a lot of money that still isn't accounted for. A Democratic Governor refused to allow Federal intervention on the ground that having a Republican President rescue Democrats was "bad optics".
None of that mattered once the cry of "Raaaaacism!" went up, and the media and commentators took it up, full-throated. And it worked -- to this day nobody even bothers to defend Landrieau, Nagin, Jefferson, or any of the others because it isn't necessary. It's all the fault of Bush's "raaaaacism!", and no further questions need be asked.
That's new, in case you've forgotten, and it was the response to Katrina that put it in place. Bush wasn't thinking about raaaaacism because it was not yet the Democrats' favorite club to use on him.
Regards,
Ric
Democrats like to say that Republicans are only interested in seeing Obama fail, even if the nation suffers for it. This causes me to laugh out loud. Idiots like Kanye and Jesse Jackson were applauded for their hateful and divisive speech because Democrats were intent on the failure of Bush, even if the nation suffered for it. Seems to me the Democrat fixation on the "Party of No" meme is pure projection, since that's what they did for eight years.
New Orleans is a laboratory example of the destructive results of black welfare dependency and the Democratic Party's quota system.
Welfare dependency created a black community that is incapable of doing anything for itself, and looks to the government even to haul its ass out of a flood.
The quota system took an already corrupt political, police and fire department systems, and turned them into incompetent nightmares.
And that's what happened in New Orleans.
Bush didn't have much to do with it.
It is a despicable slander to pretend Bush "dithered"
The Coast Guard moved into Mobile, AL prior to the storm.
The coast guard got to nearby water ways prior to the storm.
Bush had to get those idiots Blanco and Nagin on the phone and convince them to order an evacuation.
Bush is hopelessly liberal.
What is the quoted sentence at the top of the other than Bush's explanation of why he dithered?
He did not "dither" in anything.
Delaying federalizing the National Guard does not equal delaying any sort of assistance.
he dithered...
Really?
Yes, really. What is the quoted sentence at the top of the post other than Bush's explanation of why he dithered?
Bush did more for the citizens of New Orleans than Nagin & Blanco combined.
Well, that's certainly a pretty low bar to clear.
The idea that Jesse Jackson and Kayne West speak from emotion seems, to me, understood. They have no facts to back up their statements, only manipulated statistics to prop up their ramblings.
If your thoughts cannot be expressed in a 15 second sound bite, or headline, it will not be presented favorably by the dinosaur media.
If you have a view that does not reinforce the left, the anchors will roll their eyes and presume that you thoughts have no merit.
Can you imagine what would have happened if this hurricane struck with Obama in charge?
I think these reasons: the predominance of race/gender/orientation-if-some-folks-get-their-way
ideas now permeating our politics may well be why you're not going to get a balanced budget political consensus.
...or a President who can openly not play the game of using race/gender/diversity to their advantage.
It will be a long walk in these woods, and don't you dare call a tree a tree.
Here in Louisiana we know the incompetence of Gov. Kathleen Blanco. She couldn't make a decision and wouldn't allow anyone else to either.
A friend of mine and supporter of Blanco was at the state police headquarters and said the only thing she thought as Blanco bumbled was..."make a decision or get out of the way".
Blanco is an idiot.
Blanco:
"Federalization would have removed the Guard's law enforcement authority under Posse Comitatus laws, which prevent the U.S. military from assuming police powers on U.S soil, and would have hurt the response more than it helped."
Bush needed Blanco's request to overcome that limitation! She withheld it.
The best comment I have seen about the MSM coverage of the Katrina aftermath in New Orleans was headlined: "Canoeing in ankledeep water"!
Blanco says: "I thought the question over federalization had been put to rest in a conversation I had with the president on Wednesday after Katrina, but we learn from his book that the White House continued a four-day internal debate on the Insurrection Act to arm the federal troops against (we know now) a fictitious enemy. He writes that this debate was "a waste of time" and one thing he would have done differently."
That internal debate was about Bush's effort to send in the National Guard, which couldn't do law enforcement without either the governor's request (which she withheld) or the President's declaration of insurrection (which he thought wouldn't be well-received). In the end, what he did differently was send in the National Guard without their being able to do law enforcement, which was hardly the ideal, but it happened to be handled well and so it worked out. But the whole problem and the delay was Blanco's fault, according to Bush. That column you linked to, Beth, is incredibly misleading!
Anybody who's working in the federal government should always be concerned about overstepping federal bounds. If you're sworn to protect and defend the Constitution, you better be doing just that -- and that includes states' rights. Otherwise, it's not a federal government anymore, just some kind of centralization government, and the executive branch is an elective kingship.
Doesn't anybody take civics and government in high school anymore? I mean, sheesh, this is pretty darned basic to the idea of having a United States.
One thing Bush did was exercise restraint in talking about Blanco and Nagin, even as people were denouncing him. They were the first responders, under federal law, and they did a terrible job.
Remember Barbara Bush's quote when visiting the Houston relief center:
"Almost everyone I've talked to says, 'We're gonna move to Houston.' What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas... Everybody is so overwhelmed by the hospitality, and so many of the people in the arenas here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this (as she chuckles slightly) is working very well for them"
The context shows Bush, the history major and continuous reader of history, taking into consideration the the full historical context and subsequent consequences, and the Constitution and the consequences of compliance in an age in which the LSM and Democrats have so tainted the country with bogus charges of racism over the least thing that racism cannot be but included in the decision matrix of any GOP president. When you've been slapped upside the head with that charge (remember the Byrd guy in TX whose daughter was part of an anti-Bush ad the gist of which was George Bush doesn't care for black people?), you do take it into consideration.
I've always found it remarkably phony that President Bush was blamed for the weakness and failures of the governor of Louisiana and the mayor of New Orleans. That blame is ahistorical and was media- and Democrat-driven (a redundancy) to blacken (lol) Bush in the eyes of Americans. It was more of the media creating a false narrative to weaken the then president and set us up for their own naked emperor.
Bush did not delay an evacuation order.
Bush did not instruct people to go to the Superdome.
Bush did not prevent the red cross from entering New Orleans (tate officials prevent the Red Cross from entering New Orleans with food and water, so as not to get in the way of military operations.
State & local officials did.
Bush did not put it third on his list of worries. He gives two examples of more prominent criticisms, but says it was the third that bothered him. He is showing it is not criticism that bothers him but the substance of it. Also, it was not just West and Jackson making that assertion.
And for what it is worth, FEMA did mobilize well before Katrina struck New Orleans and provided more and quicker assistance than ever before for a hurricane disaster relief action.
Hence Bush's "Heckuva job, Brownie!" comment.
F. ex. 3 days before the landfall, our local sheriff and 40 deputies left from Albuquerque ,NM, driving to New Orleans to help with law enforcement, etc., which they did for several weeks. At the same time an emergency medical team from BCMC left to go to Houston, so that they could move in immediately after the landfall, which they did and set up shop in that Dome, whatever it is called, and over the following two weeks provided 6,000+ medical treatments to the folks stranded there.
This from Albuquerque, NM, which is a long way from New Orleans, and I would think there was a lot more FEMA organized help from nearer and larger communities, that also went almost totally unreported by the MSM.
The MSM grabbed onto Katrina as simply an opportunity to bash George W. and his administration, but the tale is largely fictitious.
If I invoked the Insurrection Act against her wishes, the world would see a male Republican president usurping the authority of a female Democratic governor by declaring an insurrection in a largely African American city.
Heh, heh, Beavis, he just said "insure erection in a largely African American city."
It was clear to me at the time that Bush could not simply push aside the governor and it's what angered me most about the criticism against him. It was a states' rights issue and instead of the media explaining that, they made it all his fault.
People who have no knowledge of or maybe no respect for the importance of federalism were allowed to shape the discourse.
It was common knowledge in NOLA twenty years ago that if a hurricance hit, the city was a goner. It had just been lucky for a very long time.
Bush's biggest mistake was actually believing that elected Democrats were competent.
I find it fascinating that Ann is feverishly trying to defend Bush on Katrina, when historians have already decided that he was an utter failure. Yup, keep on rehabilitating Dubya. That will endear you with the 20% right-wing dead-enders at HotAir.com
It was more of the media creating a false narrative to weaken the then president and set us up for their own naked emperor.
Bottom line this is what people believe about Bush. The damage is irreversible among an entire generation. 90% of hipsters think that Bush is a cruel racist.
He should have done what was right. If you're going to catch bloody hell no matter what you do, then there's very little downside to doing the right thing.
And New Orleans is still a goner if another hurricane strikes.
Katrina was barely a Level 3 when it hit, and it did not hit straight on.
The area is still sinking from the weight of the silt in the Mississippi outfall, and no human being can guarantee that there is not a single unknown weak spot in the new levees and seawalls.
"Restoring" the below sealevel areas of New Orleans is insanity squared.
Wv: palfake - seems somehow apt to the subject here.
Maguro, that's nonsense; Bush's "dithering" resulted in Federal support arriving in New Orleans very shortly after Blanco finally gave in and allowed it.
Yes, really. What is the quoted sentence at the top of the post other than Bush's explanation of why he dithered?
An indication that you need to look up "dither".
Alex: No historian has suggested that Bush was a "total failure."
For a succinct summation of the Katrina problem see Crack's comments above. Add to that a population well disposed to be taken care of.
Alex: What would it take to get the last 10% of stupid hipsters on board?
Big Mike,
He should have done what was right. If you're going to catch bloody hell no matter what you do, then there's very little downside to doing the right thing.
Bush did do the right thing. This is just one of those situations where the saying "A lie can make it around the world before the truth can get it's boots on" comes into play.
Now the truth has it's boots on, and as Kanye West is finding out - for making himself the poster boy for the lie - they're landing right in his ass.
I just wish we could get some of that money he made off of it back. Justice in this country can be weird.
Althouse, what's misleading? Bush published his version, Blanco responded with hers. Both are going to be misleading to the degree each seeks to gain the high ground.
As I understand the issue of the Guard, Blanco did not want Bush to federalize the Louisiana Guard, because then they would not have police powers. She requested, and eventually Bush sent, federal forces for search and rescue, and evacuation.
More nonsense. Immediate Federal support was in New Orleans even before Katrina hit.
The more massive follow-up aid may have been delayed by the shenanigans after the MSM managed to make a political football out of it, but New Orleans had the Administration's full attention, and the aid was available.
He should have done what was right. If you're going to catch bloody hell no matter what you do, then there's very little downside to doing the right thing.
You are joking, right?
So tell me, which would have been "right": violating the law and the Constitution to usurp power from an elected Governor, or doing everything within your legal autority to overcome her errors?
Charlie - I take it, then, that your definition of leadership is "Sit around and wait for Kathleen Blanco to make up her mind".
I don't doubt for a second that Blanco and Ray Nagin bear far more responsibility for the suffering in NO than Bush does. Nevertheless, he failed to use the powers of the presidency - particularly the bully pulpit - to make things happen faster. Ultimately, he was too deferential to local authorities in a situation that called for strong Federal leadership. I think Bush knows that and regrets it.
I don't see the issue with respecting states' rights in this case. Can't deference to states' rights be good, even tho it was once used for ill?
If Bush had sent in federal troops, you can bet the Blanco and Nagin would have raised holy political hell. This time they would have been right. The result would be no help for NOLA. So where is Bush wrong here? I don't get it.
Maguro,
Kanye isn't very bright, is he?
Dude, listen to him here:
If he ain't rhyming he can barely form a coherent sentence. (You can hear him trying to use some of the media training he got by invoking his new favorite word - "empathy" - over and over again.) Seriously, those on the Left can really pick 'em.
BTW - as each of these stories of the last few years get a new look-see, I'm smiling from ear-to-ear because I've wondered how long it take to straighten this shit out. I never doubted it would happen - this is America, my country, and the light never goes out - but, DAMN, it looked dark there for a while.
People - the ugly ones - keep rudely asking why my marriage broke up, implying it was me and my attitude that had to have done it, but I know better:
My NewAge ex bought every lie these assholes put out there, and I was a lone, formally-powerful figure, saying none of it was true. When the laughter started, directed at me, there was little hope anything I loved would be spared.
That's the price the last 8 years cost me personally.
General Honore summed up the situation perfectly when he entered New Orleans, telling the police, "Lower your weapons, NOW."
Prior to General Honore's arrival, the official line was that black "gangs" from the 9th Ward had been staging an armed insurrection, roaming the streets (rivers) shooting indiscriminately, murdering, looting, and causing mayhem.
When all along it was the New Orleans police doing the murdering, looting, and mayhem - tacitly supported by local and state authorities. Which, as you surely remember, began with the NOPD knocking down resident's doors to confiscate their [legal] guns.
Certainly someone in the White House knew what was going on, meaning Bush should have moved in immediately. But like all official arguments, the "higher" consideration known as the Greater Good.
General Honore's now-famous line, "Stuck on stupid" was his way of explaining New Orleans - which was Stuck on corruption.
Yes, Alex you are right. In that same sense and for the exact same reason, 90% of hipsters (a figure that smells of someone's bum) will believe and repeat until their dying breath that Obama's Mumbai trip cost $200,000,000.00 a day. Hahaha. See, that nonsense works both ways.
FYI There was some bad stuff going on in New Orleans post Katrina. Most of it was the looting but there were some very serious violent groups hoping to take advantage of the chaos. The Hurricane Pam exercises done in early 2005 knew that about 10% would not leave for various reasons. Some of that 10% stayed to loot.
My first cousin was on the ground and said the unsung heroes were what he called "the good old boys", They brought their personal boats and just rescued people. There were a lot of white hands reaching out to black hands but that story was not one that the MSM wanted told.
I'll never believe the MSM again.
Also, the Democrats own New Orleans and just about anything that happens there can be tied directly to them.
The only people in America obsessed with race are Democratic politicians, African-Americans and "intellectuals". Bush let those obsessions control his actions. In that he failed.
JAY said: Can you imagine what would have happened if this hurricane struck with Obama in charge?
Can you imagine what would have happened if there was a big giant oil spill in the Gulf with Obama in charge?
Can you imagine if a tree fell in a forest and no one was there to hear it, would it make a sound?
What if a tree fell in a forest and hit a journalist on the head causing temporary traumatic sanity and residual objective reporting of facts?
How long would that last?
Related: Could we stand the tree back up and drop it on other journalists?
Ponderponderponder.
The lies from the Katrina propaganda/coverage are still echoing. Every single time the primary and active negligence of Nagin and Blanco and the long-term Democratic choke-hold on Louisiana has to be pointed out.
Every. Single. Time.
Also, as long as we're on the subject, all that reportage about black people running amok, raping and cannibalizing, turned out to be either grossly exaggerrated or completely untrue. SO, just wondering, is it racist to use racial stereotypes so long as it's useful to attack a Republican? Does anything go in the name of "progressivism"? Guess so. (See also, "chicks up front.")
Rehashing Katrina is much like WMD in Iraq, Valerie Plame, and any other cause celebre's during the Bush administration: no one's mind is going to change and most people, with respect to emergency management have absolutely no idea of how it works.
LOCAL AUTHORITIES are the first responders--you could have gone on line and read the NOLA hurricane plan which required the idiot Nagin to declare an evacuation 72 hours prior to landfall--didnt happen, and the feckless idiot Blanco did nothing.
FEMA got a lot of criticism, but FEMA is a RECOVERY organization not a RESPONSE organization. As it was, the USCG were flying rescue missions shortly after landfall--as were some dedicated fish and wildlife officers and other private citizens.
The "horrors of the superdome" never happened, the incompetent Eddie Compass nothwithstanding: as it happend 30 percent of the NOLA PD deserted after looting stores in uniform.--Heck of a job, Eddie.
There is a bottom line here: emergency management is a local responsibility; when local resources are overwhelmed then the state has to act--when state assets are overwhelmed then they have to use the Stafford Act to request federal assistance. This is a feature of our system of FEDERALISM--the county officials were in charge from the beginning--
There are three laws the president can use: Insurrection Act (agree with Bush's concerns); Posse Comitatus which restricts federal power for local law enforcement; and the Stafford Act which puts the burden on the state governor to ask for help--Any actions taken by the President other than in compliance with these statutes is effectively a federal invasion of a sovereign state.
The only thing worse than the MSM's treatment of Katrina was the complete and ovewhelming incompetence of local authorities--Blanco and Nagin should have been charged with manslaughter.
Alex said...
I find it fascinating that Ann is feverishly trying to defend Bush on Katrina, when historians have already decided that he was an utter failure. Yup, keep on rehabilitating Dubya. That will endear you with the 20% right-wing dead-enders at HotAir.com
~~~~~
Indeed, another Bush apologist thread at a conservative circle jerk blog ~ and the band played on ...
btw, just how does one go from a job approval rating of 90% Sept. 2001 to (((25%))) Oct. 2008 ?!? hmm, a lot of water under the bridge, eh.
Practice, practice, practice lol
And congrats to Bush for having the highest disapproval rating, 71%, in Gallup history!
>
Please, let the spin continue.
take care, blessings
Roger J. said...
The only thing worse than the MSM's treatment of Katrina was the complete and ovewhelming incompetence of local authorities--Blanco and Nagin should have been charged with manslaughter.
~~~~~
A day w/out conservative hyperbole is like a day w/out sunshine! ~ cheney/bush's Iraq War fiasco notwithstanding.
carry on
And the Mayor of the city he would have overrun was afroamerican. I though that were his reason at the time.
Racist and he had Rice and Powell in his goverment
btw, just how does one go from a job approval rating of 90% Sept. 2001
Hysterical.
Um, is it like this?
Obama has the third-fastest drop to below majority approval since World War II
If by chance Obama won a 2nd term, what do you think his approval rating would be by then?
Further, you do understand that the Democrats received a record breaking butt whipping in an election a mere 11 days ago, right?
I think you should post more polls about Bush.
Really, I do.
cheney/bush's Iraq War fiasco notwithstanding.
You do understand Joe Biden called this fiasco an Obama success story, right?
a lot of water under the bridge, eh.
I think a Canadian should spend more time worrying about Canada and less time about former Republican presidents.
when historians have already decided that he was an utter failure.
Which "historians" would that be?
Name 3.
Mr Shiloh--and your position is that Blanco and Nagin responded appropriately and competently? (and I will stipulate that blanco and nagin could not have faced manslaughter charges because of so vereign immunity---mores the pity)
Hey, Shiloh.... I was here in Louisiana and it was a failure of local and state government. New Orleans was destroyed by years and years of Democrat rule and policies not by a hurricane.
Like Democrat Mary Landrieu said.. "we have trouble getting people to work on a sunny day"
Watching Kanye talk to Matt Lauer makes me realize Kanye is extremely emotionally fragile. I bet Matt could have had him blubbering if he'd wanted to.
I blame Bush for a lot of things, but not the aftermath of Katrina. All that did was reveal the fact that the federal government does not have the resources or capabilities to step into every national disaster and make everything all right. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of people that assume it does.
BTW, I don't blame Obama for the BP disaster either.
Another reason why Eisenhower was a great President. He used federal military power to enforce school desegregation in the south in the 1950's, when the Civil War was still a living thing. This was a crucial event in the civil rights movement.
Further to Bagoh20's incisive point in the second comment of this thread, Eisenhower was assuming implicitly saying that the whites (not the blacks) were ungovernable. The federal government would force white, Democratic officeholders of the south to obey the law.
Bush does not look great in revealing this thought process, but it's an honest contribution to history, which is his goal in the overall memoir (which I am reading.)
JAY said...
Obama has the third-fastest drop to below majority approval since World War II
~~~~~
Damn just passin' thru this winger circle jerk blog and already struck a nerve lol.
Interesting, for one who has no use for polls, your first response to me is a pathetic Obama (((deflection))) re: polls.
Too funny!
btw, I'm not Canadian as conservatives tend to get totally discombobulated when they get their panties in a bunch, eh.
As I don't want to get in a battle of wits w/an unarmed winger fool, you take care and watch the blood pressure ... and Jay, I beseech you, take an occasional break from your Obama ad nauseam (((bat shit crazy))) obsession.
solo estoy diciendo
Roger J. and Roux are also very good at deflecting also lol as Ann A. indeed has quite the little conservative circle jerk going on here, unhampered by facts ...
>
Spent a couple mos. at RCP during 2008 and there were some rather intelligent conservatives who were 100% convinced America would never, in a million years, elect a bi-racial, African/American president.
Oops! sorry, no Bradley Effect!
My point er deflection being that that group of wingers were a tad more interesting than the wingers at this blog. And keep hope alive as conservatives believe deep down in their souls ;) that they should never/ever lose a presidential election regardless. And still haven't quite recovered/reconciled the 2008 election er 2001/2009 cheney/bush incompetence/corruption!
take care, blessings
Gee Shiloh, you sure spend alot of time telling everyone how smart you are. How about demonstrating it?
Once you're done frothing with your little ad homs and false assertions, of course.
As a denizen of New Orleans who was there at the time, I totally agree with almost all criticisms of Nagin/Blanco. I would also add a historical fact oft forgotten but which may well have been on Bush's mind. During reconstruction the Louisiana legislature was occupied by Federal troops under orders from Grant--an action Grant came to deeply regret for the damage done to the concept of federalism as he mentions in his memoirs. One can be sure that a direct link/comparison to this malodorous historical event by another Republican President would have been INSTANTLY made by Bush's detractors and the MSM had Bush declared an insurrection.
Fen said...
Gee Shiloh, you sure spend alot of time telling everyone how smart you are.
~~~~~
Where, please specify? btw, "a lot" is (2) words. ;)
take care
"btw, just how does one go from a job approval rating of 90% Sept. 2001 to (((25%))) Oct. 2008 ?!? hmm, a lot of water under the bridge, eh."
It happened because of incompetent dishonest media.
Interestingly, even with the incompetent dishonest media at his side, Obama can't slow the fall.
Autobiographies for adult male politicians are like "joy rides".
It's enough that you lived to tell the tale.
for one who has no use for polls, your first response to me is a pathetic Obama (((deflection))) re: polls.
Huh?
Um, Obama is in office.
Bush isn't.
Get it, bozo?
Jenner said...
It happened because of incompetent dishonest media.
Interestingly, even with the incompetent dishonest media at his side, Obama can't slow the fall.
~~~~~
Haven't surfed enough of this blog to know how much conservative (((whining))) occurs, and will never know for sure as I'm only amusing myself for a couple hours ...
ciao
I'm not Canadian as conservatives tend to get totally discombobulated when they get their panties in a bunch, eh.
Right.
I think you should keep peddling that line.
As I don't want to get in a battle of wits w/an unarmed winger fool,
Yes, please, keep posting polls about former President's of a country of which you're not a citizen.
That makes you armed, clown.
first response to me is a pathetic Obama (((deflection))) re: polls.
Er, you posted about polls.
I rather enjoy that when it is pointed out Obama is polling worse than Bush at a similar point in his Presidency, you label this a "deflection"
Want to guess why that is?
Jay, you deflected to Obama because you did not want to defend Bush, which is very wise lol
Get it, my friend :) as red herrings are a conservatives best friend, eh.
er 2001/2009 cheney/bush incompetence/corruption!
That is funny.
Obama tripled the deficit.
Obama has hired czars.
Obama has hired lobbyists.
Obama kills unarmed civilians with drones.
Obama argues for indefinite detention in courts.
4+ million jobs have been lost since Obama was inaugurated.
And you are posting about incompetence & corruption.
It is almost as if your posts are parody.
Jay, are you you Ann Althouse's feeble court jester?
Rhetorical question ...
you deflected to Obama because you did not want to defend Bush,
Huh?
Obama is less intelligent that Bush.
Bush was a better president than Obama could ever be.
Talking about polls has nothing to do with these facts.
and there were some rather intelligent conservatives who were 100% convinced America would never, in a million years, elect a bi-racial, African/American president.
Note that you don't have any substantive argument to favor Obama.
It is simply race.
And feeling good about voting for a black guy.
That worked out swell, didn't it?
Huh? indeed lol
Jay, you take care little buddy ...
I know. I'm a big whiner. I should stop expecting the media to make honest reports.
Huh? indeed lol
I definitely think you should keep giggling about the fact that your posts make no sense.
Jenner said...
I know. I'm a big whiner.
~~~~~
... and the truth shall set you free! :)
Maybee wrote:
We should compare and contrast the conditions of the Carnival Cruise Splendor and the conditions of the New Orleans Convention Center.
At least nobody on the Splendor resorted to cannibalism or shoving dead bodies in the walk-in freezer.
I was thinking about that myself. Notice how quickly a fully functioning ship with all the amentities turns into a third world hovel with no electricity or toilets with something as simple as a fire. And once they're in that boat, they have nothing to do but wait till they get rescued or get the boat to shore. While in the situation they have to deal with no power and stinky bathrooms. Exactly what the people in the superdome had to deal with. There was no animus on anyone's part, it's simpy what happens when the power goes out.
And the people on the cruise line are not instantly rescued. They have to wait until the power is turned back on, the boat can be toed back somewhere or helicopters come in and rescue the people off the boats.
Maguro, you're full of shit.
jr565 said...
Maguro, you're full of shit.
~~~~~
Thanx for sharing ...
you deflected to Obama because you did not want to defend Bush,
There is nothing to "defend" Bush against.
A link to wikipedia is not exactly a stunning indictment.
However, if Bush is so bad why is Obama polling worse than Bush did at the same point in their Presidencies?
If Bush is so bad, why is Obama polling like this with Bush now?
"43 percent say that Barack Obama has been a better president than George W. Bush, while 48 percent say Bush was a better president than Obama has been."
Don't worry, you don't have an answer as you don't have coherence.
But you do have a link to wikipedia.
Again Jay ...
As I don't want to get in a battle of wits w/an unarmed winger fool, you take care and watch the blood pressure ... and Jay, I beseech you, take an occasional break from your Obama ad nauseam (((bat shit crazy))) obsession.
solo estoy diciendo
take care, blessings
Sorry, but Maguro is talking out of his ass.
He should read some of Lou Dolinar's work on the subject, to know that there was no dithering going on. Did things take longer than they should have in certain cases, certainly. But what do you expect when you're dealing with New Orleans being completely flooded, and rescuers having to go in and rescue a hundred thousand people with no electricity available.
Any suggestion that there was dithering was simply because there was a meda fabrication about what was being done. For example. The media showed all these people sitting at the superdome wet and with no electricity wondering where all the rescuers were. At the same time, there were helicopters literally flying around 24/7 rescuing people off of their roofs, and not a single reporter bothered to embed with them. So it looked like nothing was happening, and the only people in NO were the ones at the Superdome who were actually safe. Not to mention, food had been put in the superdome prior to the hurricane landing, and they were never without food. There were doctors on hand and National Gurdsman inside the whole time, and there was none of the rioting going on that the media suggested was happening. It was a secure location, and probably the safest place to be in NO.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/05/katrina_what_the_media_missed.html
http://dolinar.com/column/politics/katrina.html
In fact, despite the suggestion that Bush dithered, it was the complete opposite. This was the single greatest mobilization of resources in any rescue attempt in our countries history. How in the hell is that dithering?
Again please, let the spin continue.
It's been real ...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/05/katrina_what_the_media_missed.html
(Sorry, that link didn't get posted properly)
take an occasional break from your Obama ad nauseam
Hysterical.
You do realize you're projecting, right?
let the spin continue.
Of course you couldn't explain any spin because you don't have a clue.
Again, if Bush is so bad why is Obama polling worse than Bush did at the same point in their Presidencies?
Why do you think you can't answer?
I don't want to get in a battle of wits w/an unarmed winger fool,
You don't have any wits nor do you have facts or coherence.
But I think you should go on pretending otherwise.
Shiloh and Maguro, if you want to look to dithering, think about Obama's response to the BP spill. It took him 15 days or so to even aknowledge that he might have a role to play.
how does one go from a job approval rating of 90% Sept. 2001 to (((25%))) Oct. 2008 ?!?
Alternatively, how does one go from a 69% job approval rating (Jan 2009) to being rated as a worse President than the guy with the 25% rating in just 21 months?
jr - According to George W. Bush, from story at the link:
"I prided myself on my ability to make crisp and effective decisions. Yet in the days after Katrina, that didn't happen. The problem was not that I made the wrong decisions. It was that I took too long to decide,"
Dithering is defined as "to act nervously or indecisively". Therefore, in taking too long to decide, Bush dithered. Simple, no?
If you have a beef with the notion that Bush dithered, take it up with the man himself. I'm just agreeing with him.
Maguro wrote:
Dithering is defined as "to act nervously or indecisively". Therefore, in taking too long to decide, Bush dithered. Simple, no?
If you have a beef with the notion that Bush dithered, take it up with the man himself. I'm just agreeing with him.
Bush had to/has to respond to data from the ground which is relayed to him from his team. As the whole city is flooded and there is no communications and/or electricity what is he basing his decisions on to you? Does he wish certain things went faster, certainly, but it wasn't because he was dithering. And if he takes some of the delays upon himself, that's just because he's a gracious person who is willing to take some blame for "what went wrong".
But you know what? He has nothing to apologize for.
IF you look back at Hurricane Andrew, the last time there was a major hurricane that was this lethal, the same charges were lobbed. Where were all the supplies at? Why's everything taking so long. Yet, Katrina took place over multiple states, an even wider expanse of land had an entire city flooded.
With your stupid destructive comments, you should be forced to work at FEMA or be responsible for rescue efforts on the scale of Katrina. And if anything, and I mean anything takes one minute longer than people who have no clue about rescuing thousands of people expect, you should be held accountable and fall on your sword and be accused of dithering even if you were up 24 hours a day and gave 180% of your energy.
And despite the fact that Katrina was far larger than ANdrew and led to close to a thousand dead, and even though the whole city was flooded Bush got the whole city evacuated in under 3 weeks. Was it pretty? Hell no, but I think you have SERIOUSLY overestimated expectations as to what rescue efforts are capable of.
"Feelings strongly held" are...well... just that.
Unless you choose to hang out with a group of folks who don't hold on to the same "teddy bear".
"... and the truth shall set you free! :)"
So there's still hope for you!
Maguro: Dithering is defined as "to act nervously or indecisively". Therefore, in taking too long to decide, Bush dithered. Simple, no?
No. Dither has a negative conotation, and its primary is to tremble, to shiver.
If you want to have some semblance of intellectual integrity, you could say that Bush hesitated.
Shiloh: Again please, let the spin continue. It's been real ...
Bravely ran away...
And how have you not choked on all your projection by now?
"As I understand the issue of the Guard, Blanco did not want Bush to federalize the Louisiana Guard, because then they would not have police powers."
You understand it wrong then. Blanco is being deceptive. If she had requested the National Guard, it would have had law enforcement power. *She failed to make the request.* If Bush sent in the National Guard without the request -- which he ultimately did -- then they wouldn't be able to act to keep order. The whole problem was HER failure to make the request, even though Bush was there in person begging her to do it.
Another huge problem post Katrina was communications. Almost all of the telco lines went through New Orleans. Much of that was wiped out. It was hard to know which reports were true or false. When outside law enforcement agencies came in they had no idea where anything was.
Shilo has no clue as to what he's talking about.
Presidents who are forced to think about sensitivity are less effective. The people who push the sensitivity question just get everyone killed for their beautiful viewpoints. Presidents should just do the sensible thing instead of the sensitive thing. The sensitive thing is rarely sensible. Obama is sensitive but never sensible.
There's a reason why God put New Orleans 30' below sea-level.
You saw that reason manifest itself as perfectly good buses were swamped and made useless by inaction, the Superdome became an open-air sewer, an elected Mayor locked himself inside a luxury hotel bathroom to assume the fetal position for two days (I hear Stalin did that, too. Must be a Lefty thing when confronted by a crisis), an elected Governor found it impossible to find her own ass with both hands and a flashlight, as thousands of morons took to looting TV's and jewelry from Wal Mart, or trade gunshots with the few cops who did try to do their jobs, instead of trying to save their lives.
People too stupid to get out of the way of a hurricane -- one that they watched cross the Atlantic for a week on television before it struck -- don't deserve to be saved.
Projection lol as it was Fen who inanely said: you sure spend alot of time telling everyone how smart you are. No, but I did spend a couple hrs. amusing myself at this conservative circle jerk thread/site, where Obama ad hominems/winger disingenuous sarcasm are the norm. Shocking!
and please feel free to keep mentioning my name ... or not, as I wouldn't want Ann's feeble court jester Jay to dream about me tonight.
'nuf said!
I won't even blame Bunny for his heckuva job. You are dealing with the worst natural disaster we've faced in modern times. And a whole city is flooded, And communications are shot to hell. And the people on the ground who FEMA is supposed to coordinate with are similiarly overwhelmed and nowhere to be found. Excuse me if there are problems. What on earth do people expect, that in the midst of a disaster of that magnitude that people arent' going to make mistakes or make an order that is incorrect, or take time to get information that may or may not be accurate and may take longer to get there than is expected.
You could have a thousand things go wrong, and still have a successful rescue operation, which is what this was.
Even the charge that Bunny (calling him that because I forgot his last name at the moment) was an incompetent who had no experience dealing with emergecies, belies the fact that prior to Katrina he had already dealt with mutliple hurricanes admirably. It's just that most hurricanes are not like Katrina.
Lets stipulate a rule. THe bigger the hurricane or disaster, the more time it will take to resolve, the more problems will be encountered, the more things will go wrong, and the more of a FUBAR situation it will become. And this was true with Andrew too, only Katrina was worse than Andrew by far.
People complaining about the rescue attempts at Katrina seem to be operating under the assumption that a rescue attempt should take a certain amount of time regardless of situations on the ground and that the size of the problem should in no way impact the response to the problem.
You could argue that a thousand things went wrong. But this much is known. THis was the biggeset natural disaster, causing more devastation than any modern hurricane. And Bush poured more resources into it than any president in history towards any previous disaster. And despite the myriad problems the rescue attempt essentially relocated all the people from one submerged city, despite a complete failure on the local responders part (and hey lets not totally blame them either, it was kind of an overwhelming situation) into outlying cities in under three weeks. That is a success not a failure.
We are a nation of laws, and while they serves us well often, it's clear they don't serve us always.
As for Bush, he dithered...
Edutcher - Actually, he didn't; Blanco and Nagin did. As I noted above, a lot of bad reporting and outright lies were told about Katrina (not unlike the campaign in Iraq) for the purpose of making Dubya look bad.
Actually, he did dither. He built himself up as "The Deciderer", the 2nd Churchill, and milked 9/11 to the max promising he and "The Heroes" would "Keep America Perfectly Safe".
The Katrina hit...and the mighty "Deciderer" dithered...held paralyzed by right wing fetishes about "Posse Comitatus" and an inept schoolteacher turned governor (Blanco) even more inept than Sharron Angle or Christine O'Donnell that Bush was afraid for days to challenge. Because she was an inept woman, not an inept man.
So much for the 2nd Churchill.
They finally got adult leadership in place - but it wasn't Blanco, Nagib, Brownie, the cowardly and corrupted "Heroes" of the New Orleans police, or even Bush - it was a Creole General named Russell Honore`.
I don't disagree that Blanco is burnishing her record. So is Bush.
Blanco requested 40,000 troops on the Wednesday (Sept. 2?) after the storm. She argues that she did so the day of the storm but that she didn't know she had to follow particular procedures. I agree that's inexcusable.
I haven't read Bush's memoir. Did he mention that Haley Barbour also refused his request to invoke the Insurrection Act?
The other area of disagreement is what the federal troops were needed for - to restore order, or to do rescue and evacuations. My memory is that Blanco didn't want federal troops, not under her command, pointing weapons at people in the street.
There's no question in my mind that state and local officials badly bungled many aspects of the situation, but the national response was flawed as well.
And any time Russell Honore wants to run for office - any office - I'll vote for him.
Look out everybody:
Beth and Cedarford are on the case!
And, Jesus, I don't know who this Shilo character is but, if you guys keep playing pattycake with this nutjob, I'ma start losing reespect for y'all. All he does is tag you, with nothing to back it up, but then you ask him to do so and he does it again - get a clue:
He ain't worth talking to!
Beth wrote:
I haven't read Bush's memoir. Did he mention that Haley Barbour also refused his request to invoke the Insurrection Act?
The other area of disagreement is what the federal troops were needed for - to restore order, or to do rescue and evacuations. My memory is that Blanco didn't want federal troops, not under her command, pointing weapons at people in the street.
that is exactly true. One of the primary reasons that the national guard was called in was because of all the news stories about civil unrest (the snipers shooting at helicopters etc) and when bringing in suppiles would they need to act as police officers, or act as support. And there was disgreement about their roles, which would determine whether BUsh could take control from the locals.
And for Cedarford here is your boy Honore talking about the proper role of the armys role in dealing with Katrina and issues like Katrina:
“The role of the military is to play the away game. The home game is up to law enforcement and federal agencies. Inside individual states it is the responsibility of that state’s governor and the National Guard to respond. The whole notion of putting the military in charge of homeland defense was a bit frightening. People were looking for an easy answer and the military seemed to provide it. But how do you take a federal force and use it within the United States without violating the Posse Comitatus Act? The question was, How much leeway should be given to the military in a domestic crisis?”
Not something so simple that a president can simply push past a reluctant governor. We have laws in place for a reason. Now, in this case it may turn out that the laws were insufficient to deal with a crisis of this magnitude, but trying to determine who had jurisdiction is not dithering.
Further from Honore:“the media [know] little about disaster relief and the laws that govern it. They [do] not know about the Stafford Act of the Helms-Biden Act or the Posse Comitatus Act. Many were merely bodies on the scene who were giving the American public impressions and feelings rather than news.”
Exactly. You're simply reacting to public impressions and feelings based on reporters who have no clue about how to deal with disaster managment or any realistic assessment of what is expected.
The Crack Emcee said...
And, Jesus,
~~~~~
Please, no need to mention deity when telling lemmings to ignore me by posting a whole paragraph about me lol.
Quite the disconnect, eh.
btw crack, you yourself did a good job ignoring me ~ congrats! Too funny.
ciao
I repeat, people:
Shilo = not worth talking to.
The Crack Emcee said...
I repeat, people:
Shilo = not worth talking to.
CRACK JOHNSON IS RIGHT!!!
But he is not important in and of himself. He is data, on the next wave of new or reincarnated trolls/quasi-trolls, when they can no longer live with themselves or keep a straight face, that we seem to be seeing on Althouse.
I'd be more interested in why he picked his nick than discussing policy at the present time, but I think everybody should get at least one chance. As H. Beam Piper wrote in Space Viking,And when somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. Hawk-handsaw check.
Beth said:
I haven't read Bush's memoir. Did he mention that Haley Barbour also refused his request to invoke the Insurrection Act?
The reason Barbour refused the request to invoke the Insurrection Act was that in Mississippi, there was no insurrection. Mississippians came together and responded to the aftermath of the hurricane. Law enforcement officers didn't leave en masse. Of course, with a smaller population on the coast (and since we didn't have people living below sea level) we didn't have thousands of people stuck on their roofs. The problems they had were restoring power, clearing debris, and waiting for a FEMA trailer to live in until you could rebuild.
Same thing in Alabama.
As I recall, pretty much right up to when Katrina hit, Blanco was still trying to decide whether to attend an out-of-state meeting. She didn't take the warnings particularly seriously from the git-go and both she and Nagin handled the situation very poorly before, during and afterward.
I stand by the comments (my very first on this blog, as it happens) that I made back then in the thread I linked, every bit as strongly all these years later and with the benefit of knowing all the fallout & etc. since. A lack of local urgency and effective response was hugely responsible for what played out. I agree that Brown and Chertoff weren't particularly good at their jobs, but the root and main cause of problems with evacuation and first response was the lack of urgency and poor reaction of city and state (i.e. local, not national) officeholders.
Beth: You might be interested in going back to that thread, too, given that you also commented in it (from the place to which you, wisely, evacuated).
Thanks, reader. I'd say the same for myself. State and city did poorly in getting that small percentage of people out who could not do so themselves, in particular. Some of the police lost their minds (sloanasaurus made some incredibly prescient remarks about the Danziger Bridge shootings, for which cops are now facing trial). There was no "insurrection," and between police and La. Nat'l Guard, order was restored within a couple of days. The great need was for rescue, and supplies, and all three levels of gov't did poorly on those notes, for a few days, then performed quite well, and continued to do so for months.
With respect to LTG Honore: he was the CINC of NORTHCOM ( newly created unified command)--as such he had absolutely NO authority to direct any parrish sheriff, or any state official to do anything--and the parrish sheriff's knew it--he was a media sensation, but the reality is that NORTHCOM's authority was extremely circumscribed the legislation already mentioned.--and its a good thing if you really think the US Army is what you want running things in your local government.
Their job, as LTG Honore mentioned was to play the away game and coordinate with FEMA on the use of military supplies and equipmeent consistent with local requests.
Who gives a rat's ass if you were offended by being criticized, George?
Once again, you were warned of a threat and, once again, you failed to act on it. You were asleep at the controls when this happened and just didn't give a rat's ass.
You know if those were white people packed onto roofs and into a hellish situation in the dome, action would have been taken.
You know if those were white people packed onto roofs and into a hellish situation in the dome, action would have been taken.
Um, action such as?
You have not the foggiest clue what actions were and were not taken.
Alpah Liberal wrote:
You know if those were white people packed onto roofs and into a hellish situation in the dome, action would have been taken.
So you're saying there were no white people stuck on their roofs in NO? And no whites in the Superdome?
And I guess you weren't aware that despite the argument that nothing was being done to help the poor black guys stuck on their roof, from the second that the hurricane hit landfall, their were helicopters flying 24/7 (so many that rescuers were most worried about collisions mid air) rescuing them. With your blood libels you should never ever complain about anything right wingers should say about Obama. Because not only are you talking out of your ass, you're engaging in one of the lowest smears possible. And after engaging in such petty demagoguery there is literally nothing you should complain about if the other side brings it up against Obama.
For the record, one of the major suburbs directly adjacent to New Orleans and Orleans Parish within the Metro Statistical Area (MSM)--St Bernard Parish--with the towns of Chalmette, Arabi, and several smaller ones, fishing villages, etc., all of which were approx 94% white, was almost totally wiped off the map with 90%+ of the structures--schools, hospitals, homes--under water. Of course this devastation received little or no MSM coverage as it was nearly impossible to access save by helo. The numbers of white deaths in Chalmette alone exceeded those of blacks in Orleans Parish, IIRC, or very close thereto. And like the blacks in Orleans Parish, they were stranded on rooftops exposed to the elements w.o. food or water too--rescued in the main by CG helos. Almost ALL of this has REMAINED largely unreported
in the national press. To get a feel for the scope of the damage go visit Wiki under the "Chalmette" and St. Bernard" headings. You should note St. Bernard has the lowest life expectancy of ANY county in the US.--mainly due to the devastation of health-care facilities, pollution from an oil refinery due to Katrina-induced spills,etc. The entire Parish is STILL but a shadow of its former self--but all one hears or sees in the Nat. media is about the Lower 9th Ward--the predominantly black suburb of New Orleans proper. And while the devastation in the 9th was horrendous, so was it equally the case of white, but little covered St. Bernard.
Remember Barbara Bush's quote when visiting the Houston relief center
Sending 100,000 Democrats to Houston hasn't done its politics any good.
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