“I hear you. but I am really tired of defending the indefensible. The people who attacked Clinton on Monica were prissy and ridiculous, but let me tell you it was no fun, as a feminist and a woman, waving aside as politically irrelevant and part of the vast rightwing conspiracy Paula, Monica, Kathleen, Juanita,” [The Nation's Katha] Pollitt said.Ah! How Katha suffered for Bill Clinton! She would prefer to have a more pleasurable life, full of the fun of being true to the principles of the feminist movement, but there were more important things to be done at the time. Caring about rape, sexual harassment, male privilege, and female subordination — that was a self-indulgence brave Katha rose above.
२० जुलै, २०१०
The secret pain of the feminist Katha Pollitt.
From The Daily Caller's Journolist revelations:
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At the risk of having my head handed to me on a platter, if called upon to name the one public figure who has done the most damage to the organized feminist movement, I would probably nominate President Clinton. Single-handedly, he forced the feminists to mute themselves and maintain an embarrassed "principled" silence. What other person - particularly a man - could have accomplished that feat?
Word verification: fedia.
I saw that...I couldn't believe it when I saw it.
Does "feminist" mean anything anymore?
Maybe, Ann, it's time for you to question your faith.
Maybe the whole crock of shit called feminism is... just a crock of shit.
Time to separate out your self interest. You enjoy the perks of being at the top of the quota system.
Who wouldn't?
Stop making your self interest into a political cause.
That's the problem.
Feminism is the female arm of the Democratic Party. It always has been.
Clinton-Lewinsky was the nail in the coffin of modern feminism.
Young women saw the hypocrisy of "feminists", despite the best efforts of hypocrites Steinem on down, for what it was.
We are sadly still trying to dig out from a willing nation that lay down and sucked feminism's teat way too long.
Poor sister Katha. I don't feel her pain. Apparently it was the so-called vast right wing conspiracy that pulled Clinton's zipper down.
Now that is defending the indefensible!
I admit I glossed over that a little bit, because, well, wasn’t that pretty much the same thing we saw in the Al Gore allegations? I forgot the exact words, but a friend said she should take one for the team so Gore can save the planet.
I am a feminist, in the sense that I believe women should be judged by their actual abilities and not be excluded from anything (except men’s bathrooms) just because they are women. But modern, mainstream feminism grew up at a time when the ascendancy of Mao was very popular, and they decided from some reason to become maoist. Mao regularly said party over principle. The mainstream feminists have long believed it.
But despite the fact it is so ordinary, it should be highlighted. They should be shamed until they see that principle should prevail over party.
Is that link right?
Caring about rape, sexual harassment, male privilege, and female subordination — that was a self-indulgence brave Katha rose above.
LOL! For the greater good, of course.
Feminist: supporter of rape, sexual harrassment, male privilege and female subordination when the perp is a liberal Democrat.
Ever since feminism circled the wagons for Clinton -- because he was "down for the struggle" on abortion -- feminist have been little more than a bunch of haggard old cats with failing vision, bad breath, and their fur falling out.
"Journolist" is the thing, ALIMHO! Dick the Butcher attacked the wrong group, he should have attacked reporters and other such rumor mongers. OTOH, newspapers are dying a slow painful death, for them, for me, it's not fast enough.
Did either Althouse or Breitbart actually get ahold of the Journolist Files?
And now the world can see the stain on Katha's blue dress.
Is that link right?
To quote the late, great Paul Harvey: Page 3.
Word verification: cupdqc
Ah. Thanks, Mr. B.
Bill Clinton raped someone?
These people are completely and totally souless and completely despicable
Feminism is nothing more than a shill for the Democrats. It may have started as a movement with some meaning, but feminists have been WHORES for the last 30 years at least.
And Journalism is dead. Has been since the 60's when the so called jourlists and reportes also became whores and pimps for the liberal/progressive agenda.
One can only hope that in the coming purge they get their very just desserts.
Sheesh....typos galore. Must get more coffee.
Bill Clinton raped someone?
That was the allegation of one Juanita Broaddrick. Totally unprovable, which is why it never went anywhere.
They say a lot of the women who voted for Willie wanted to have sex with him. Perhaps Katha wanted something else.
that-xmas said...
I saw that...I couldn't believe it when I saw it.
Does "feminist" mean anything anymore?
It hasn't for the last 40 years, ever since Gloria Steinbrenner and her friends turned it into a man-hating club.
Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...
Ever since feminism circled the wagons for Clinton -- because he was "down for the struggle" on abortion -- feminist have been little more than a bunch of haggard old cats with failing vision, bad breath, and their fur falling out.
It goes back farther than that. Remember Mollie Yard?
WV "menestr" (no kidding) Make up your own.
I know it is getting embarrassing, Ann, but you were young and foolish, like us all. You are still young and wiser every day. It's glorious to watch unfold among us all.
Tribalism usually overpowers principle. Liberals are a tribe. The principles need a do over from scratch.
They say a lot
Who is this 'They'?
There is still a strong male prejudice against a woman receiving due credit for her leadership and intelligence provided within a group. That feminist movement is a still in play(See, Palin, Sarah). The joke on women is that the Dems hijacked their ideas to get abortion industry donations. Hillary is the only Dem in history to have sincerely assert the real feminist position.
If Hillary was a feminist, she would have drop-kicked Bill to the curb once she found out about Monica.
Mr. Buddwing: Single-handedly, he forced the feminists to mute themselves and maintain an embarrassed "principled" silence.
He didn't force anything. They went willingly and eagerly. That's the really sad part about it all.
DBQ called them whores- when I was a teen, a common joke was that, when a girl was (kiddingly*) called a whore, someone might jump in and say that she was not a whore, but a slut; whores at least charge, while sluts give it away for free. Liberal feminists are sluts, not whores.
* I know that sounds really awful, but I remember this as the sort of joking friendly banter teasing, where no one could really believe the other person meant it (since we were all pretty much drawing the line at kissing then). But the point holds true.
*************************
I personally ignore the rape charge- it might have happened; there's certainly nothing about Clinton's character that makes it seem unbelievable, but it's completely unprovable and too much time has passed. But the proven issues of groping, harassment, and taking advantage of superiors are more than enough to judge, IMO.
- Lyssa
What other person - particularly a man - could have accomplished that feat?
Ted Kennedy accomplished it despite committing manslaughter.
But the responsibility for the most damage to the organized "feminist" movement (which promotes a counterfeit feminism) belongs to the so-called feminists themselves. They are not children -- they are grown womyn with completely free will.
And just as they use "choice" to choose to kill their own children in the womb, so too do they choose to kill their own principles and the interests of other women when it suits them politically.
Caring about the social movements and the party more than truth and personal principals.
Where are the lovers of truth - the people who want to find it and hold onto it?
Or have we suffered what Bloom saw early on and described in The Closing of the American Mind, that no one believes any more that there is such a thing as truth?
"Hillary is the only Dem in history to have sincerely assert the real feminist position."
She went out of her way to savage the women who her husband mistreated, had affairs with, etc. If she ever was a feminist, she sold her soul to fuel her rise to power.
Liberal feminists are sluts, not whores
Speaking of "professional feminists" here mainly, since many women are sincere in their beliefs and in their personal conduct.
Some feminists may be sluts, within your definition of giving it away for free. In that case they are stupid, rudderless and traitors to their own principles.
The others: who have traded career success, book deals, speaking engagements and monetary gain by suppressing their principles in exchange.....are whores.
They have become famous and rich by throwing their principles to the side and other women, Lewinsky et al in particular and women internationally into the trash can. They have elevated political expediency over their principles and gained personally. They have sold themselves and prostituted themselves just as thoroughly as the crack whore on the street corner.
garage mahal said...
Bill Clinton raped someone?
garage, the Juanita who Pollitt refers to is Juanita Broaddrick.
Good points, DBQ (although normal women with "strongly held feminist beliefs" who defended Clinton (which seemed to be many of them) still fit my definition of slut- If not, they would have been outraged and left skeptical of the democrats/liberalism as a result).
Parsing the defition of "slut" and "whore" is not a conversation that I ever really expected that I would have.
Could it be, maybe, just maybe that...
Giving women an unchallenged, unilateral right to kill their own babies, corrupts them in ways unforseen?
Underlying all of this nonsense is the #1 rule of Democratic Party politics, the right to abortion on demand.
When you take away the human rights of the unborn, and the men who fathered them, perhaps you create a moral nightmare, no matter how you try to neutralize the process via gray language.
I say this as someone who believes that access to abortion has to be available in some circumstances. When abortion becomes contraception, as it has, moral degradation is the inevitable result.
Meade
I went to your link, and the very first paragraph starts with this:
The previous year, Broaddrick had filed a sworn affidavit with Paula Jones' lawyers denying that Clinton had ever assaulted her: "During the 1992 Presidential campaign there were unfounded rumors and stories circulated that Mr. Clinton had made unwelcome sexual advances toward me in the late seventies. ... These allegations are untrue ...."[1]
What gives?
garage, read the whole thing, as they say.
what gives is that the first paragraph says this:
She alleged in 1998 that United States President Bill Clinton had raped her two decades earlier.
Oh lordy, the DNC must have finally fired up its fax server. Now the usual suspects will be out to change the subject to Bush...
The idea that journalists conspired to change the subject or mute the threads is, of course, not interesting to mouth-breathers who took it all in hook-line-sinker without a qualm.
You were lied to, and you not only didn't even know it, you wanted it to be that way because you didn't want your tiny mind rocked by reality.
And now you're here trying to push the toothpaste back in the bottle and to change the focus to BUSH! (It will happen. 5-4-3-2-1 some lefty will bring up Bush to change the topic.)
So, under oath she said the rape didn't happen, not under oath she said it did happen. Okay....
Just wondering how this plays out, in say, a law classroom. It's deemed rape when the accuser says it didn't happen, under oath. I bet Althouse has discussed something similar in her classroom.
Quayle --
"Or have we suffered what Bloom saw early on and described in The Closing of the American Mind, that no one believes any more that there is such a thing as truth?"
Plenty of people do. Politicians and newspaper people, not so much.
garage, try to keep your eye on the ball - “I hear you. but I am really tired of defending the indefensible. The people who attacked Clinton on Monica were prissy and ridiculous, but let me tell you it was no fun, as a feminist and a woman, waving aside as politically irrelevant and part of the vast rightwing conspiracy Paula, Monica, Kathleen, Juanita,” [The Nation's Katha] Pollitt said.
Here, I'll enlarge it for you:
...as a feminist and a woman, waving aside as politically irrelevant and part of the vast rightwing conspiracy...
The sweet spot:
waving aside
He didn't force anything. They went willingly and eagerly. That's the really sad part about it all.
To be fair, the Virginia chapter of NOW broke ranks and called Clinton out for his sexual predation in the workplace.
But Katha Pollitt got down on her hands and knees and swallowed. If there is Justice, she will be sexually harassed and discriminated against and then thrown under the bus for some "greater" cause.
Meade, that's interesting. I overlooked Ms. Pollitt's mention of Juanita on the first read (and only thought of it when Althouse said "rape.")
I don't really believe Ms. Broaddrick (at least, not enough to damn Clinton for it, as I said above), but her inclusion there makes it sound like Ms. Pollitt does. And still defend, she did. Sick.
whores at least charge, while sluts give it away for free. Liberal feminists are sluts, not whores.
The feminists traded their priniciples away for a Clinton veto of the Partial Birth Abortion ban.
Whores.
Feminist criticism of Female Genital Mutilation by Muslims is/are where?
So, under oath she said the rape didn't happen, not under oath she said it did happen. Okay....
and both under oath and not under oath Clinton said he didn't have sex with Monica Lewinsky. what's your point?
In which Katha Pollitt discovers that integrity, once discarded, cannot be regained and is forever mourned.
And she also learned what it means to have sold one's birthright for a mess of pottage.
[Barbie voice] Lying is hard! [/Barbie voice]
I don't agree that Katha Pollitt was suffering some kind of agony of divided loyalties. To be a feminist is by definition to be a leftist. Anyone who buys into the notion that a particular collective, in the case of a feminist the female collective, has a value higher than individual right and wrong and therefore the defense of females, as a class or collective, takes precedence over whether a particular female in a particular instance has right on her side or doesn't have right on her side...that is classic leftism.
A ho is a ho.
On what planet is Hillary Clinton a feminist? She attacked women who correctly said they slept with her husband. And she owes the entirety of her career to marrying correctly.
Sarah Palin is more of a real feminist than Hilldog any day.
Garage
> Bill Clinton raped someone?
Allegedly. Her story was credible, and she told her friend at the time, but nowhere near enough to convict.
> What gives?
Yes, Ms. Broderick would be officially the first woman in the history of humanity to be reluctant to admit she was raped.
Peano
And being a pimp ain’t easy.
Allegedly. Her story was credible, and she told her friend at the time, but nowhere near enough to convict.
Since we're all interested in truth and fairness, don't you think either Althouse should have stated "alleged rape", or even better, omit the assertion altogether?
garage
i think you can say you "care about" rape without believing the allegations. i mean Katha said that she brushed it aside not based on evidence but because it was supposedly politically irrelevant or part of the conspiracy.
Now to be fair to the larger feminist movement, they did draw a line in the sand with broderick. they said, deny it if you want, but we don't want no nuts and sluts defense, here. But katha didn't care so much.
And maybe althouse personally feels broderick is more credible than i do. this isn't science, this is opinion.
AllenS said...
Feminism is the female arm of the Democratic Party. It always has been."
Maybe Allen. 'Tis true I don't remember a lot of women supporting Nixon...but I do caution you about overly simple observations and generalizations...
that-xmas said...
"Does "feminist" mean anything anymore?"
sure it does but to those who still long for the era before women could vote, probably not so much.
i think you can say you "care about" rape without believing the allegations.
Why would you care about something you didn't believe actually happened?
The Progressive Left has been throwing women under the bus since...well, ever since it got started, back in 1972, when George McGovern had a bunch of women thrown out of the Democratic National Convention so that his hand-picked delegates could be seated in their place.
Feminism is the female arm of the Democratic Party. It always has been."
Maybe Allen. 'Tis true I don't remember a lot of women supporting Nixon...but I do caution you about overly simple observations and generalizations...
???????????? Is this in the same line as the Rightwing “Betrayus Ad”, IIRC Nixon was NOT a Democrat….
HDHouse said...
Maybe Allen. 'Tis true I don't remember a lot of women supporting Nixon...but I do caution you about overly simple observations and generalizations...
What in the fuck does Nixon have to do with what I said?
If you had watched the Lisa Myers interview with Ms.Broaddrick on NBC(shown during the Super Bowl,oddly enough,)it would be hard not to believe that a rape had taken place.This was shown around the time of the impeachment phase of his second term and it is revolting.
Garage: You just don't get it.
garage
> Why would you care about something you didn't believe actually happened?
Well, gee, for one thing, if you aren't sure of the facts, there is something you can do: investigate. especially if it is your job to try to learn what facts are.
Garage, you are aware Monica Lewinsky submitted an affidavit to the same Paula Jones case denying any physical relationship with President Clinton?
Are you thinking of arguing that President Clinton didn't have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky, because she said under oath it didn't happen, but not under oath she kept the dress with the evidence?
I agree with Lyssa, not much evidence to convict for rape. However, as is very clear, it is Pollitt that waved away Juanita's claim purely to defend the indefensible. It seems Garage, you plan to continue the defense while using the same tired arguments that failed then, and still fail now.
Yeah, sure Katha had to dust her knees off and keep moving, but it's not as if she had to wrestle a giant snapper or anything.
WV: sting - Where, O death, is thy sting?
re: MrBuddwing
No, Clinton just did more to EXPOSE the "feminist" movement for what they are, that's all. He damaged them by exposing them.
Leland, and by extension Garage,
that's a good point. its not what althouse thought, but what Katha thought. Katha thought that apparently the evidence was bad enough with juanita that it was one of those indefensible things she was sick of defending. maybe her assessment of the evidence was unfair, but the point is she didn't "call it like she saw it." she pretended the charges were less credible than she believed them to be.
Garage, your mistake in logic is to take my honest assessment that the charge against clinton was unproven, and think it impacts on althouse's criticism. althouse's criticism is rightly based on the facts as katha understood them, not based on how I or you understood them.
docweasel: No, Clinton just did more to EXPOSE the "feminist" movement for what they are, that's all. He damaged them by exposing them.
That's a good point. I don't think that before that time, it was cool for women my age & a little older (late gen-X-ers)to disdain the idea of being considered a "feminist," but now it certainly is. That brought it to a head, and high acheiving chicks like myself can now say with pride that we are not feminists, but hardly confined to "our place."
Did Clinton pave the way towards post-feminism? Is it possible that the NAACP (with the New Black Panther Party, the DOJ, and Obama's race card-playing) could pave the way towards post-racialism?
- Lyssa
I would be happy to give [Bill Clinton] a blowjob just to thank him for keeping abortion legal. I think American women should be lining up with their presidential kneepads on to show their gratitude for keeping the theocracy off our backs.
It seems Garage, you plan to continue the defense while using the same tired arguments that failed then, and still fail now.
Then, and now, Bill Clinton by any fair standards can't be called a rapist.
My main point is that we don't casually say someone raped someone else unless it's proven. For instance, we don't normally call Ronald Reagan a rapist do we? Even when there is just as credible evidence against him as Juanita Brodderick's claim. If not more.
garage, when Katha Pollitt, on Journolist, said, “...I am really tired of defending the indefensible..." what exactly do you think she was referring to as being "indefensible?"
wv: "thiksh" As in, "garage, please tell us you are TRYING to be thiksh."
Then, and now, Bill Clinton by any fair standards can't be called a rapist. My main point is that we don't casually say someone raped someone else unless it's proven.
It would be easier to credit your attitude if you hadn't sneeringly referred to "the Duke Lacrosse National Tragedy" a few weeks back.
For instance, we don't normally call Ronald Reagan a rapist do we? Even when there is just as credible evidence against him as Juanita Brodderick's claim. If not more.
Only if "credible" is code for "he's a Republican".
Garage, you are aware Monica Lewinsky submitted an affidavit to the same Paula Jones case denying any physical relationship with President Clinton?
Garage forgets that Clinton was impeached subornation of perjury.
And the charges of rape were credible because, according to feminist doctrine pre-Clinton, there was already an established pattern and history of sexual predation by Clinton.
But of course, the Left doesn't really believe in the things they lecture the rest of us about.
You simply can't believe how much I hope garbage is getting paid for this, well, garbage.
It hurts my head to believe anyone could work so hard at being thick for only the pleasures of trolling.
And since he's at least occasionally coherent, if hardly ever logical, I presume he's not sub-intelligent.
Did Clinton pave the way towards post-feminism? Is it possible that the NAACP (with the New Black Panther Party, the DOJ, and Obama's race card-playing) could pave the way towards post-racialism?
- Lyssa
I would like to think so. However, so long as the mainstream fails to distinguish between the original versions of these movements (feminism and other pro-minority movements) and the co-opted, inverted Leftist versions, this "post" stuff risks losing sight of the original individualism that informed those movements while they were still genuinely "liberal".
Contra the Left, we can reject what passes for feminism today without returning to sexism, just as we can reject Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton without being racists.
I'm with A.W.: "I am a feminist, in the sense that I believe women should be judged by their actual abilities and not be excluded from anything (except men’s bathrooms) just because they are women."
I couldn't understand why anyone would support a President who used his office to coerce underlings into having sex with him. I would have thought that was a slam-dunk. The "feminists" who turned those coats on that one didn't show that feminism was flawed, they showed that they weren't feminists.
I think the most broadly damning theme that ran throughout this journolist exchange, besides the freely admitted hypocrisy here, was the shared opinion (which this statement exemplifies) that the ends justify the means to getting a Democrat elected. Which they failed to square against their claim the "right wing" was doing just that against them by hyping the Obama-Wright relationship.
Which they failed to square against their claim the "right wing" was doing just that against them by hyping the Obama-Wright relationship.
And thats what the Libtards do - they must convince themselves that the "others" are monsters to justify their own monstrous behavior. Case in point:
Spencer Ackerman: Part of me doesn’t like this shit either [falsely accusing others of racism]. But what I like less is being governed by racists and warmongers and criminals
See, any action is justified once you start pretending your enemies are demonic.
Its astonishing that educated adults would still cling to such retarded values.
sure it does but to those who still long for the era before women could vote, probably not so much.
Airball
Oh please. She sold out her soul rather than face the fact that just maybe it's possible that the Dems and dem males can be evil and just maybe it's possible that There. Is. No. Sanctuary. There.
Lewinsky-Clinton had a HUGE effect on how I viewed feminists. It really deeply mattered to me.
What I have always found so sadly amusing is that reading "Fear and Loathing On the Campaign Trail" by Hunter S Thompson in college - that's exactly what the Dems did in 1972 during the convention - they sold out the women. It was the climax of that part of the book. "They're going to screw the women."
And they did it again with Lewinsky/Juanita and then again with Hillary.
And yet, it's the same old same old. "Well, it's better than those Republicans..."
Any port in a storm.
Dear Garage Mahal,
Bill Clinton is a RAPIST. There is nothing alledged about it. I know Juanita Broadderick. She is a wonderful person, and , most importantly she is not a liar.
Why didn't she come forward? It was 1978, he was a very powerful man--the attorney general of the state, and she was afraid for her safety, and the safety of her son.
In mid morning, in an upscale Little Rock hotel room, 6'2" Bill Clinton took 5"4" 125 lbs. Juanita Broadderick's lip between his teeth, threw her down on the bed and brutally raped her twice. She told friends hours after the attack, who were a witness to her bruised, cut lower lip and torn clothing.
But as Katha Pollitt has just proven, "feminists" don't care about the rape of "inconvenient" women (we can't say "conservative, because at the time Juanita was a Clinton supporter, just as Kathleen Willey was.)
I always though Katha Pollitt was a nothingburger. Her columns are unreadable they are so predictable and boring. It's just nice to see that she also admits to having no integrity.
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