Althouse: "Surely you can question my policies without questioning my faith... or, for that matter, my citizenship."

February 4, 2010

"Surely you can question my policies without questioning my faith... or, for that matter, my citizenship."

Birther humor from Obama... at the National Prayer Breakfast.

80 comments:

Trooper York said...: He's right.

And that rug he was carrying to pray with was a very nice weave.; 2/4/10, 2:43 PM
Shanna said...: Was there any particular reason he thought he needed to be confrontational at the National Prayer Breakfast?; 2/4/10, 2:45 PM
Unknown said...: Barry is feeling boxed in (it wasn't supposed to get nasty, you know) and feels obliged to put everybody he thinks is against him in their place. He needs to get rid of Tippytoes.

Shanna said...

Was there any particular reason he thought he needed to be confrontational at the National Prayer Breakfast?

They partake of the opiate of the Masses, don't they.

PS Troop, nice picture of your namesake. From which movie, "Rio Grande"?; 2/4/10, 2:50 PM
El Presidente said...: If only there was a document he could release to clear all this up.

The withholding is a very sophisticated bit of propaganda. He keeps a very small portion of his most rabid opponents focused on this misdirection and gets to paint a much broader portion of his detractors with the same brush.; 2/4/10, 2:50 PM
Trooper York said...: Because.

La Elah ila Allah, wa Ina Mohamadon rasool Allah.

They just don't get it.

So to speak.; 2/4/10, 2:50 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: Maybe Dan Rather will dig up Obama's real Kenyan birth certificate done in Microsoft Word, Times New Roman font and run through a copier 15 times.

I'm sure he'd like to break that story.

Or maybe not.; 2/4/10, 2:58 PM
Meade said...: How about your judgement? Is it okay if we question your judgement?; 2/4/10, 3:01 PM
Lee Merrick said...: He is so thin-skinned!; 2/4/10, 3:02 PM
sort of runic rhyme said...: So, just because he said he wanted halaal, not kosher, when served a bagel, we get all judgmental; 2/4/10, 3:06 PM
ricpic said...: Speaking of faith: Ringo Starr says he's found God at 70.; 2/4/10, 3:07 PM
zanne said...: Legal fees bugging him? Good.; 2/4/10, 3:08 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: 27 Obama and his disciples went on to the villages around Maryland Washington DC. On the way he asked them, "Who do people say I am?"

28 They replied, "Some say JFK from Camelot; others say Lincoln; and still others, one of the top 10."

29 "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

Rahm answered, "You are the One."

30 Obama warned them they didn't have much time to tell everybody about him ;); 2/4/10, 3:08 PM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: Obviously, anyone that questions Barry is just being ridiculous.; 2/4/10, 3:11 PM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: Obamedy! LOL, just noticed that.; 2/4/10, 3:19 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: If only there was a document he could release to clear all this up.

Yes, the super-double secret One True Birth certificate, no mention of which is in the qualifications for President under the Constitution.

Poor George Washington and Abraham Lincoln had to make do with family Bibles.

My birth certificate had my adopted father's name on it--he adopted me when I was 2. There is no One True Birth certificate that has my birth father's name on it. You can harass Washington State all you like, there isn't one and it would have no legal validity if it DID exist.

So let's stop this passive aggressive "why doesn't Palin release her hospital records" line of argument, then, and act like adults.

You cannot magic Obama away. you need to defeat him in an election.; 2/4/10, 3:25 PM
traditionalguy said...: We would have liked to know if he has faith and in what . We would also have liked to know that was born in the country so that no wingnut could start a Constitutional challenge to our President. But those are the old vetting questions that he already ducked prior to the election when we needed the answers. Frankly, we don't give a damn now. His fabulous skills speak for themselves now. He is our fait accomplis.; 2/4/10, 3:28 PM
rhhardin said...: It's his place of birth that would be in question, not his citizenship.

He couldn't say place of birth.; 2/4/10, 3:33 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: @traditionalguy:

We would also have liked to know that was born in the country so that no wingnut could start a Constitutional challenge to our President.

Spare us the concern trolling. You know he was born in Hawaii every bit as certainly as you know John McCain was born in the Canal Zone.

The State of Hawaii claims the legal birth certificate has the same information as this super-double-secret one. Are they in on the conspiracy? The hospital that delivered him? The newspaper that ran the birth announcement?

If you are just "asking question", how are you any better than Andrew Sullivan is on Trig Palin?; 2/4/10, 3:33 PM
Scott said...: "Speaking of faith: Ringo Starr says he's found God at 70."

Hopefully he was only in a 65 mph zone.; 2/4/10, 3:34 PM
Scott said...: President Obama has the sharp wit of John F. Kennedy.

It should be noted that Kennedy was high on narcotics most of the time, however.; 2/4/10, 3:36 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: So let's stop this passive aggressive "why doesn't Palin release her hospital records" line of argument, then, and act like adults.

Gabriel, I'm sure during the great depression people had games and told jokes to each other about Herbert Hoover to keep hunger and misery at bay... Why should we break a wonderful tradition ;); 2/4/10, 3:37 PM
Billiam said...: I think the One is stringing the 'birthers' along. Using them. He's supposedly spent in the neighborhood of 1.5 million fighting the attempts to get his records. Didn't congress hold hearings to determine is McCain was qualified to run by virtue of his birth, where was it, in the Panama Canal Zone? Anyone remember?; 2/4/10, 3:38 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: I, for one, will continue to question everything about the man.

That is, and always will be, The Macho Response.; 2/4/10, 3:40 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: He couldn't say place of birth.

Constitutional Lecturer. Mama didnt raise no fool.; 2/4/10, 3:40 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: @Billiam:

He's supposedly spent in the neighborhood of 1.5 million fighting the attempts to get his records.

When all else fails, make stuff up!

He released the only legal birth certificate he has.

I have applied for a marriage certificate, a US passport, and a green card for my wife. In no circumstance did anyone ever ask for any secret "long-form" birth certificate. I know because I was adopted and mine has my adoptive father's name on it, NOT the name of my birth father.

The legal birth certificate is the one your state prints out for you and puts a stamp on. Not some mysterious record that supposedly says "white" or whatever else people are making up this week.; 2/4/10, 3:42 PM
Anonymous said...: At least he was in an appropriate forum for one of his moralistic lectures.

I think he's putting all the "nutty right winger" stuff out there so we will all vote for the stable, sober Dems in November.; 2/4/10, 3:44 PM
Ah Pooh said...: I think perhaps President Obama's parents were not married at the time of his birth and he does not wish to have that information confirmed by the certificate in deference to his mother.; 2/4/10, 3:46 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: @Ah Pooh:

I think perhaps President Obama's parents were not married at the time of his birth and he does not wish to have that information confirmed by the certificate in deference to his mother.

More concern trolling. That document does not belong to Barack Obama and he has most likely never seen it. There is nothing for him to "release". He is not charge of that super double secret certificate. The State of Hawaii is. His birth certificate, his REAL, LEGAL one, is already released.; 2/4/10, 3:49 PM
AllenS said...: Obamedy. That's a good one. Ranks right up there with celebritneys.

Obamsity. If any of them gain a lot of weight.; 2/4/10, 3:49 PM
MadisonMan said...: He needs more of a twinkle in his eye when he says it.; 2/4/10, 3:51 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: It's here:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg

Note what it says under race: mother, Caucasian, father, African.

Note what it says at the bottom:

This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding

At least Sullivan is spelunking in a live woman's womb, and not a dead one's.; 2/4/10, 3:52 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: Oh, and don't call me Shirley!; 2/4/10, 3:59 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: I think perhaps President Obama's parents were not married at the time of his birth..

Obama Sr.. you are NOT the father ;); 2/4/10, 4:01 PM
mariner said...: Lee:
He is so thin-skinned!

Yes, but it's DARK skin, and that makes it mo better.

Well, I guess not.; 2/4/10, 4:23 PM
bagoh20 said...: The dems including the President have been well behind the wave with the public mind lately. This Birther stuff is so last month. The public has moved on. We have already tired of the distractions and attacks. We want answers, movement, with humility and respect for the people who actually own this country. All of them.; 2/4/10, 4:23 PM
mariner said...: traditionalguy:
He is our fait accomplis.

Unfortunately he may be our fate accompli.

wv: firing - what we be doin' to Democrats this November.; 2/4/10, 4:26 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: What most people don't know about this issue could fill over a hundred posts, in my case in my extensive coverage of the Obama citizenship issue.

A good example of the ignorance surrounding this issue is provided by Gabriel Hanna:

The State of Hawaii claims the legal birth certificate has the same information as this super-double-secret one.

No they don't. They've only released two statements, neither of which said that. The second statement says he was born there, but nothing about any matches between their records and the graphic on his site. Hawaii has not authenticated the COLB shown on his site. And, the newspaper announcements are not proof.

Now for the part where I need people to use their brains: the foregoing doesn't mean he wasn't born there. It just means that no definitive proof has been provided. The forms of "proof" so far offered have holes.

What we're dealing with here is an inability by many to differentiate between belief and fact. It's perfectly acceptable to believe that BHO was born in HI, however, it's not correct to state that it's a fact because - once again - it has not been definitively proven.

And, the rightwing establishment has handled this in the completely wrong way and showed just how incompetent they are. If they would simply tell the truth about this issue they could discredit dozens of MSM hacks. Instead, they aren't smart enough to figure out how to tell the truth and they've ended up helping BHO and the MSM and hurting their side.

I trust that Althouse's readers are intelligent enough to read and understand the links above before commenting.; 2/4/10, 4:27 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: @LonewackoDotCom:

You've invented a standard with no basis in law, which you apply ONLY to Barack Obama. No proof whatever could satisfy you.

But you are wrong about Hawaii:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/presidentialrace/2008337771_rumorside01.html

http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf

In general your posts are self-discrediting, anyway, so feel free to keep making stuff up.; 2/4/10, 4:36 PM
Roger J. said...: Who ever said its time to get this birther stuff behind us is right on target--here's the political reality: even if Mr Obama were conclusively proved NOT to be born in the US (which I dont believe) what are we going to do? The only remedy is impeachment, and can someone tell me how many votes there would be in the house and senate for that course of action?

Aint going to happen. And it is a distraction for the real damage Mr Obama is doing to the American economy, and global financial system which heretofor has relied on the US Dollar as the stabilizing currency.; 2/4/10, 4:41 PM
Big Mike said...: Interesting remark by Mr. Obama. You'd think, as a certified limousine liberal, that he'd bring some nice brie to go with all that w[h]ine.; 2/4/10, 5:05 PM
Mick said...: El Presidente said...
"If only there was a document he could release to clear all this up.

The withholding is a very sophisticated bit of propaganda. He keeps a very small portion of his most rabid opponents focused on this misdirection and gets to paint a much broader portion of his detractors with the same brush."

You are right about that Presedente. The BC issue is a distraction from the real Legal Constitutional issue that is not a "Conspiracy'. Obama knows very well that he is not a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN ( that's the requirement, not "Citizen"). Natural Born Citizens require the unity of Blood and Soil in order to ensure the highest probability of Allegiance (it's a National Security requirement). The definition, which the founders took from Vattels Law of Nations (Natural Law) is Born in the US to Citizen PARENTS. He has already admitted that at birth he held dual citizenship with Britain, due to his father's Kenyan (never US ) citizenship. He held dual allegiance at birth, and as such can never be considered a Natural Born Citizen and is Ineligible for POTUS. Just so you know McCain (born in Panama) and Jindal (born in La. to Indian immigrant resident aliens) are not Natural Born Citizens either.; 2/4/10, 5:08 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: Gabriel Hanna: the AP report in the first link completely misrepresents the contents of the first HI statement. That statement was ambiguous; their DOH dir. said that has "personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

If you want to be intellectually dishonest (and clearly you do), you'll say that she's verifying he was born there. But, that's not what she said: she only said they have a cert on file. HI does hold certs for those born in other states and countries. That doesn't mean that BHO's cert indicates a birth in another state or country, only that her statement didn't clear up the matter (and that the AP lied).

Now, what I'd like you to do is cite (i.e., quote) the specific parts of the first and the second statement that backs up your earlier contention: The State of Hawaii claims the legal birth certificate has the same information as this super-double-secret one

What language in either of their statements backs up your contention? I want the exact quote from either of those statements, not something an MSM reporter made up.

Show us the exact quote, or admit you're either wrong or lying.; 2/4/10, 5:27 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: Mick: You're an absolute, complete idiot.

The cert issue is the one that the MSM has consistenly lied about. If you want your obscure legal theory to be examined, you're going to need either a court case or to get the MSM to do the legwork.

But, by calling the cert issue a distraction, you're throwing away your bargaining chip against the MSM. That's pretty stupid, isn't it?; 2/4/10, 5:30 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: Lonewacko, by all means up the ante. I already linked to it, let's go again:

I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.

But I should believe you over my lying eyes, I guess.; 2/4/10, 5:33 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: So how now, Lonewackow?

The State of Hawaii is in on the conspiracy, then?

Or do Dr Fukino's words mean the opposite of what they say?

I don't care if you retract or not, it's hilarious either way.

Here's the link again. Offical State of Hawaii correspondence, on the official State of Hawaii website.

http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf

But do keep saying there's no real proof. Does me no harm and entertains the others.; 2/4/10, 5:36 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: Gabriel Hanna: please try and read what I wrote.

I asked you to back up your claim that "The State of Hawaii claims the legal birth certificate has the same information as this super-double-secret one".

The way to do that is to provide a quote from them saying, "what we have on file matches what's on his site" or similar.

The quote you provided - which I've already linked to twice in my earlier comments - does not say that. I'm fully aware of what the statement you quoted says and - once again - I've already linked it twice and it's also a top link on my main page about this.

Once again: provide a quote from them that backs up the claim I referenced, not another claim. Once again: I'm asking you to back up the "same information" claim. Do you understand that?

Ask someone in a higher grade to explain this to you since you clearly are incapable of understanding it.; 2/4/10, 5:49 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: Lonewacko, let me get this straight:

You agree that

a) The State of Hawaii has in its files Barack Obama's original birth certificate

b) which says he was born in Hawaii

c) and the State of Hawaii is on record as saying so, but

d) Barack Obama has not actually released his real birth certificate, but possibly a fake one,

e) because Hawaii hasn't explicitly said that the one Barack Obama shows to everyone agrees with the real one.

Congratulations for thinking up the stupidest Barack Obama conspiracy theory ever.; 2/4/10, 5:59 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: You cannot magic Obama away. you need to defeat him in an election.

WHAT!! are you saying that the wax likeness of Obama with pins stuck in it that I'm slowly melting in a pot on the stove isn't going to work?

I've been gyped. I demand a refund.

Shoot.; 2/4/10, 6:03 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: As I said, Lonewacko, self-discrediting.

Do you have any reason to believe that anything on Barack Obama's certificate (from the LA Times)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg

is false?

What on earth is the point of your argument? Are you saying the "long-form" would have something on it that this one does not have?

Even if that were true, none of it would be relevant.

So you're just making a big deal out of nothing--and you don;t make this kind of fuss over anyone else's birth-certificate.

As I said, self-discrediting.; 2/4/10, 6:06 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: Gabriel Hanna - You do realize you're arguing with a guy named "Lonewacko"?; 2/4/10, 6:12 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: @Maguro: yeah, there's the fool, and the fool who argues with him. Point taken, I'll shut up now.; 2/4/10, 6:14 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: Gabriel Hanna: One of the points of my argument is to show that people like you have trouble thinking and can't get their facts straight. It's taken you three or four comments to understand my request, and instead of admitting that you can't comply you're simply puzzling as to what I'm getting at. You've also shown others that you can't think correctly and can't get your facts straight.

Now, I just need to do that with someone who has even some slight importance.; 2/4/10, 6:15 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: Maguro: you do realize that your argument is an extremely tired ad hom and is invalid, right?

I've posted nearly 10,000 entries at my site (originally lonewacko.com) and now 24Ahead.com. In all that time, I don't think even one person has caught me getting a fact or an argument wrong (besides me, and I quickly posted a correction in a dozen or so cases). They might disagree with me, but unlike bloggers and MSM reporters I work very hard to get my facts straight and to make sure that my arguments are logical.

Why don't you try to grow up and see if you can find even one fact I've gotten wrong or even one illogical argument I've made? (I'm not counting insulting people while at the same time also engaging their arguments).; 2/4/10, 6:20 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: @Lonewacko:

If I understand you correctly, you've conceded that the State of Hawaii has a certificate proving Obama was born there, and you have conceded that everything on Obama's published birth certificate is true. That ends my concern in the matter I don't care what else you have to say about it.

If you do want to dispute his mother and father's name, their races, Obama's name and date and location of birth, be honest and say so.

If you want to entertain some kind of bizarre conspiracy theory about what else Obama's birth certificate might say, have fun.; 2/4/10, 7:11 PM
knox said...: If Obama wants to be viewed as:

1. Authoritative
2. Respectable
3. Classy

...he shouldn't acknowledge such suspicions/accusations. Until someone can actually prove either one, he needs to pretend they don't exist. Otherwise, he looks thin-skinned at the best, like he has something to hide at the worst.

Dude: you're the president. You're too busy to trifle with rumors and gossip; even worse to dignify them with a response. Even if you're trying to be funny.; 2/4/10, 7:20 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Birthers don't necessarily question Obama's citizenship, right? So why did Obama use that term?; 2/4/10, 7:43 PM
Mick said...: AJ Lynch said...
"Birthers don't necessarily question Obama's citizenship, right? So why did Obama use that term?"

Good question. The answer is that he wants to shield the real issue, that his father was never a citizen, and therefore Obama 2 is not a Natural Born Citizen.; 2/4/10, 8:30 PM
Mick said...: LonewackoDotCom said...
"Mick: You're an absolute, complete idiot.

The cert issue is the one that the MSM has consistenly lied about. If you want your obscure legal theory to be examined, you're going to need either a court case or to get the MSM to do the legwork.

But, by calling the cert issue a distraction, you're throwing away your bargaining chip against the MSM. That's pretty stupid, isn't it?"

And you are just flat out wrong. It is not some obscure theory, and people like you are the ones that are allowing Obama to shield the real issue, the one that is already known, that his father was never a citizen. Natural Born citizen is defined in the dicta of 5 SCOTUS cases (The Venus, Dred Scott, Minor v. Happersett, Wong Kim Ark, and Perkins v. Elg) as Born in the US to US Citizen Parents. NO SCOTUS case defines it as anything less. He is trying to get people zeroed in on the BC, so he can whip it out and say "see I am a NBC". The FACT that makes him not an eligible Natural Born Citizen is already known admitted and in front of us here, below the big Green distrating COLB, under Factcheck. How can a Natural Born Citizen's Citizenship be "Governed" by Britain?
http://www.fightthesmears.com.php5-9.websitetestlink.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

People like you are easily distracted, but Obama did not count on SMART people figuring out his game, or he would have brought out the BC sooner. If you think that he doesn't have one your nuts.; 2/4/10, 8:41 PM
Mick said...: Gabriel Hanna said...
@LonewackoDotCom:

"You've invented a standard with no basis in law, which you apply ONLY to Barack Obama. No proof whatever could satisfy you."

No further proof is needed. He has already admitted that his father was never a citizen. As such he can never be a Natural Born Citizen. McCain can never be a Natural born Citizen because he was born in Panama. This is the way our government thinks of the USC and We the People.; 2/4/10, 8:45 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: @Mick:

It's funny to see you and Lonewacko argue. There's no love among crackpots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

In a 6-2 decision, the Court held that under the Fourteenth Amendment, a child born in the United States of parents of foreign descent who, at the time of the child's birth are subjects of a foreign power but who have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States and are carrying on business in the United States, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under a foreign power, and are not members of foreign forces in hostile occupation of United States territory, becomes a citizen of the United States at the time of birth.

Sorry, dude, you're just making stuff up. But continue to rant about Law of Nations theory or whatever. It's funny, like the people who freak out when they see a gold fringe on the American flag.; 2/4/10, 8:53 PM
Mick said...: Gabriel Hanna said...
"Lonewacko, by all means up the ante. I already linked to it, let's go again:

I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.

But I should believe you over my lying eyes, I guess."

And Ms. Fukino would be wrong. Barack Obama is Not a Natural Born Citizen (That's the term, not Natural Born AMERICAN Citizen-- that sounds like an American Citizen born vaginally-- more carfully crafted wordsmithing). It is already admitted by Obama that his father was never a citizen, thus he can never be a Natural Born Citizen. You sound like one of the many Obama Bridgetenders trolling these blogs and obfuscating for dear leader.; 2/4/10, 8:57 PM
Mick said...: Gabriel Hanna said...
@Mick:

"It's funny to see you and Lonewacko argue. There's no love among crackpots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

In a 6-2 decision, the Court held that under the Fourteenth Amendment, a child born in the United States of parents of foreign descent who, at the time of the child's birth are subjects of a foreign power but who have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States and are carrying on business in the United States, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under a foreign power, and are not members of foreign forces in hostile occupation of United States territory, becomes a citizen of the United States at the time of birth.

Sorry, dude, you're just making stuff up. But continue to rant about Law of Nations theory or whatever. It's funny, like the people who freak out when they see a gold fringe on the American flag."

Well Well, you ARE one of those Obama Bridgetender Obfuscators. The ruling said that he was a "Citizen" since he was born of UNNATURALIZEABLE (Wong's parents were excluded from naturalization by the Chinese Exclusionary Acts) resident aliens. It never said that Wong was a Natural Born Citizen. A Citizen by birth is not neccessarily a NBC. Citizens at birth could be born overseas of US citizen parents, but they would not be eligible for the POTUS.; 2/4/10, 9:03 PM
Mick said...: "Gabriel Hanna said...
@Mick:

"It's funny to see you and Lonewacko argue. There's no love among crackpots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_

WIKI???!!! LOL. You never have read the case!; 2/4/10, 9:06 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: @Mick:

You never have read the case!

Nothing wrong with reading about a famous case on Wikipedia.

I'm also not claiming that there are secret qualifications to be a "natural born citizen" that no one has ever heard of, and that no court in this country accepts as valid.

Interesting to know that according to you my children will not be "natural born citizens", as my wife is a citizen of China. But since you're a lunatic, even Lonewacko says so, then there will be no consequences whatever.; 2/4/10, 9:11 PM
Fr Martin Fox said...: This is the most I've paid attention to this idiot "birther" subject.

I'm going to skip over the merits of the claim that Barack Obama doesn't qualify as a natural-born citizen. I think the fact that these arguments grow ever more precious and esoteric serves well enough to demonstrate how stupid this is. But others are better able to demolish them.

But let us play pretend, and pretend this claim really is true. As someone else said already, whaddya gonna do? Impeach him? Great...we get natural-born Biden. That makes you feel better?

The remedy would be to defeat the man at the next election.

And get a clue--if you want to defeat him, harping on this birth issue is about the absolute worst way to do it.

Gah! This is stupid! I feel stupider now just for having discussed it!; 2/4/10, 9:16 PM
Gabriel Hanna said...: @Fr Martin Fox:

+1 internet for using "precious" as a criticism. It's nice to read someone who knows words and loves words.; 2/4/10, 9:35 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: While I do not doubt for a minute that President Obama is a natural born citizen, I'll play along with the what-if-he-wasn't.

Would we impeach him? No, for two reasons. First, it is not a high crime nor misdemeanor to not be a natural born citizen, and that is the criteria for impeachment. Second, you can't impeach someone who was never President, and if Obama was not qualified then he was never President. So then what? Would Biden be President? I'm not sure. It seems to me that the electoral college vote that went to Obama would have to be considered invalid. At that point the best thing to do would be to throw out the result, reconvene the electoral college, and have them re-vote. They would presumably choose another Democrat, but likely not Biden.; 2/4/10, 10:00 PM
Mark said...: Hmmmm, Blood and Soil: where have I heard that before?

That almost makes me think there's something to the idea that Obama himself might be stirring the pot on this. But he'd have to be more of a strategist than I think he is, so I'm thinking the people who've bitten into this poisonous apple do so with simple Darwinian glee.; 2/4/10, 10:28 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: Gabriel Hanna: this is more of an "epistemological" argument, one about what we know, the difference between fact and supposition, and the like. It's way, way over your head; you've just shown yourself to be a low-wattage hack.

For instance, you falsely say that I've "conceded that the State of Hawaii has a certificate proving Obama was born there, and you have conceded that everything on Obama's published birth certificate is true" despite the fact that neither match up to what I've said.

I've never said the second, and my issue with the first involves a distinction that's too subtle for you to understand.

I don't know if they have a cert proving he was born there.

Based on their statements, I know that they say that he was born there, and I know that they say that they have a cert that's valid. I have no way to independently verify that they do in fact have such a cert; they might or they might not. I don't know what the supposed cert says because they haven't said anything about what's on the cert.

You just aren't bright enough to understand the subtleties of this issue and my take on it. Find a smart friend - such as a senior or a junior - to try to explain it to you.; 2/4/10, 10:28 PM
LonewackoDotCom said...: Mick:

You're almost as dumb as Hanna. You can say something is a fact until your face is blue, but the vast majority of others don't think it's a fact. The only way to convince them that it's a fact (assuming it is, indeed a fact) is to either get a court case or to get the MSM to look into it. You're so dumb that you think that your word alone makes something a fact. Give it up, and track this comment back to your nest (i.e., Donofrio or similar).; 2/4/10, 10:31 PM
Mark said...: And speaking of Darwinian glee, WTF is Obama doing telling a stinker of a joke about a stinker of an issue, looking prissy and small?

Seriously, I think most of those movable re: Obama support find the whole issue distasteful, and would like it to go away. My gut tells me they don't care about the details of Obama's nativity, but they do care about stinky politics.

This is stinky politics. Obama ran against them. He ran on a promise to be above them. And yet, he drops a stink bomb.

He can only hope this clip stays buried in the political junkies' blogs.; 2/4/10, 10:33 PM
Mick said...: Gabriel Hanna said

"I'm also not claiming that there are secret qualifications to be a "natural born citizen" that no one has ever heard of, and that no court in this country accepts as valid.

Interesting to know that according to you my children will not be "natural born citizens", as my wife is a citizen of China. But since you're a lunatic, even Lonewacko says so, then there will be no consequences whatever."

Ah, the truth comes out, always does. You feel like it is your children's "right" to be POTUS! There is No Right to be POTUS, you have to be an eligible Natural Born Citizen, like you have to be 35 yrs. old. It is a National Security provision. WKA never said Wong was a NBC. It also said that the CITIZEN Child of an ALIEN has the same rights as the NATURAL BORN Child of a CITIZEN. Chew on that for a while. You will have to read the case, not just the biased cliff notes on WIKI.; 2/5/10, 9:48 AM
Mick said...: Fr Martin Fox said,

"I'm going to skip over the merits of the claim that Barack Obama doesn't qualify as a natural-born citizen. I think the fact that these arguments grow ever more precious and esoteric serves well enough to demonstrate how stupid this is. But others are better able to demolish them"

You're going to Skip Over the ISSUE? About the very eligibility of this POTUS according to the USC. That is the type of Constitutional Relativism that is killing the republic. Obama is EXCTLY the type of non allegiant man that the framers would have prevented from the Presidency. There will be Quo Warrant brought by Leo Donofrio in the DC District Court. Chrysler dealers who had their franchises taken away by this admin. will have standing.; 2/5/10, 9:57 AM
DADvocate said...: Is only attending church 3 times in his first year in office a reason to question his faith?; 2/5/10, 10:05 AM
Mick said...: LoneWackoDotCom said,

Mick:

"You're almost as dumb as Hanna. You can say something is a fact until your face is blue, but the vast majority of others don't think it's a fact. The only way to convince them that it's a fact (assuming it is, indeed a fact) is to either get a court case or to get the MSM to look into it. You're so dumb that you think that your word alone makes something a fact. Give it up, and track this comment back to your nest (i.e., Donofrio or similar)."

Your invectives are a common tool of the uneducated, AND you are just plain wrong. Now you are sounding like the paid Obama Bridgetenders, only you are the type that presents yourself as a "birther" in order to keep the focus on the BC, not the real issue of his father's lack of citizenship at the time Obama 2 was born. You are part of the smpokescreen. MSM? That's funny--- they are part of the smokescreen, and are totally a propaganda arm of this admin. There are 5 SCOTUS Cases that define Natural Born citizen as Born in the US to Citizen PARENTS. Where do you think it says that it is anything less (like just born in the US)?; 2/5/10, 10:06 AM
Mick said...: To Mark,

It is common for the Obama Apologists, Protectors and Bridgetenders to ridicule and call names of those who question the Usurper. There is nothing racist about the blood and soil requirement of Natural Born citizen. Naturalized citizens can have Natural Born Citizen children. The parents don't have to be born here. It is a Natural law National Security requirement of 2 generations of citizenship to ensure the highest possiblity of allegiance.; 2/5/10, 10:13 AM
Mick said...: Ignorance is Bliss said...
"While I do not doubt for a minute that President Obama is a natural born citizen, I'll play along with the what-if-he-wasn't."

Your handle says everything. Why don't you doubt that he is a Natural Born Citizen? He has already admitted that his father was never a citizen. His lack of allegiance has already shown.; 2/5/10, 10:29 AM
Fr Martin Fox said...: Mick:

I'm going to be blunt with you, not out of any desire to be unkind, but really out of charity.

You're making a really idiotic argument. This whole birther thing--it's absolutely, without qualification, stupid and a total waste of time. It is as moronic as Rosie O'Donnell going on about steel doesn't melt in relation to the World Trade Center. She used to be famous and invited to be part of things. Now she's a crank. That's what happens when people get obsessed with numbskull stuff like that--and this.

I've already said why it's utterly without merit, as have others. If you don't understand those arguments, that is fine, but may I suggest you retire from the discussion?

I'm not going to discuss this with you. If you want to discuss something having merit, let's go. But I have already spent too much time venturing into this Looking-glass world and I'm exiting quickly, right now.

I invite you to get out while you can.; 2/5/10, 2:40 PM
Synova said...: "Is only attending church 3 times in his first year in office a reason to question his faith?"

No.

Not that I was ever convinced of Obama's faith. In fact, as much as Democrats go through the forms, I don't believe that they can get elected if their constituency actually thinks they believe in God. The trick is to make those claims while not actually getting accused of actually believing in the great sky fairy, because at that point you become dangerous and not to be trusted.

The question of church, though, is that any time the President goes anywhere it is disruptive. I don't know what previous presidents did... if Carter had a church he became a member of, or if Reagan did, or either of the Bushes went or where the Clinton's attended.

What politicians often do is, if they attend regularly, rotate between church services where they are so that favorites are not played. Cynically, it's good politics to rub elbows with as many different groups of people as possible, but I think I approve of those wielding political power doing what they can to avoid the appearance of favoring one particular denomination over another.; 2/5/10, 5:53 PM
Ken said...: Why does he have to campaign at the national prayer breakfast?; 2/6/10, 8:34 PM

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