Althouse: Ayaan Hirsi Ali comes to Wisconsin.

२ फेब्रुवारी, २०१०

Ayaan Hirsi Ali comes to Wisconsin.

She'll speak on campus tonight as part of our Distinguished Lecturer Series... and it hasn't been uncontroversial.

७७ टिप्पण्या:

Chip Ahoy म्हणाले...: I see what you've done there, employing the nuanced subtlety of double negative.; २/२/१०, १:२७ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: Will there be a scene? My memory harkens back to 1979 or so when the turncoat Eldridge Cleaver was shouted down by the left and silenced when he spoke on the UW campus.
Odd, I can't find any written record of that now. Maybe it was just a bad dream.; २/२/१०, १:२९ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: wv: "fusks" LOL!; २/२/१०, १:३० PM
themightypuck म्हणाले...: I cheer her on and doubt anything newsworthy will come of her appearance.; २/२/१०, १:३० PM
Rialby म्हणाले...: Has it not been uncontroversial because Madison embodies the post-modern embrace of all things other while eschewing all things classically liberal like freedom?; २/२/१०, १:३० PM
steve uhr म्हणाले...: "everyone would leave thinking Islam is a little bit suspicious, something that we need to worry about ..."

Never mind that it is true. How can you stomach the cap times?; २/२/१०, १:३१ PM
Hoosier Daddy म्हणाले...: I love this part.

The case of the Kansas killer reminds us that, all too frequently, Christianity has been warped by its cruder adherents into an excuse for denying women basic rights and dignity.

Yes indeed. I'm reminded every day about Christianity being warped by the the plethora of suicide bombings, beheadings, women forced into veils....

Pathetic.; २/२/१०, १:३१ PM
Synova म्हणाले...: Oh! You will report for us, right?; २/२/१०, १:३३ PM
Hoosier Daddy म्हणाले...: Maybe its not too controversial because protesting against a black female who's been threatened to death by the adherents of the Religion of Peace is even too low for the lefties?

Or maybe the moral equivalency between Islam and Christianity the article displays tamped down any ire the lefties would exhibit against her.; २/२/१०, १:३७ PM
Scott म्हणाले...: I admire Ayaan so much. I wish I could hear her speak.; २/२/१०, १:३९ PM
Ernesto Ariel Suárez म्हणाले...: I would love to be there!

wv: branso; २/२/१०, १:४० PM
Automatic_Wing म्हणाले...: Instead of pre-emptively deploying their standard "Muslim, Christian, it's all the same to me" equivalency trope, the Cap Times editorial board might consider actually listening to Ali's lecture and hear what she has to say about Islam. After all, she knows a hell of a lot more about it than they do.

Just too much to ask of an open-minded, liberal publication, I guess.; २/२/१०, १:४४ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Jesus Fucking Christ! What warped way-of-thinking of does the writer follow?? He mention the dastardly deeds of Christianity in paragraphs number TWO and THREE???! It's like that is the point of the article, and later on there's a little "oh by the way there is Muslim extremism in the world too and this lady was a victim of it".

UGH! And the Dutch were such wimps with her. If she were in Denmark, she would have been backed up. Those Danes are the only ones in Europe who are standing strong.; २/२/१०, १:५० PM
KCFleming म्हणाले...: "And we would note that Islam is not the only religion that has some extreme adherents ...etc."

Sounds like they've already written their story for the speech tonight. No need to attend!

One guy who murdered an abortion doc is mentioned more often in the article than any of the thousands of murders by Muslims in the last two decades.

Hell, they could only allude to the perpetrators of 9/11 by complaining that it's used to blame Muslims.

Typical liberal response to the uncomfortable truth; change the subject, and say "white men/Republicans/Christians do the same thing".; २/२/१०, १:५० PM
muddimo म्हणाले...: Hilarious. Their equivocation would have been more convincing if they could have provided more than one example of a "Christian zealot" and of "Christianity...denying women basic rights and dignity".
Plus, at issue in their example are the "rights and dignity" to have your child killed in the womb, or removed and killed in some cases. Reasonable people may differ on the existence of such rights, and whose dignity is being assailed.

Plus, what religion is responsible for the relatively liberal and progressive culture that we enjoy? From what religious tradition did our present set of rights evolve?
The lack of awareness is almost childlike.; २/२/१०, १:५२ PM
Scott M म्हणाले...: The tactic for fighting speech you don't like or agree with is more speech, not less.; २/२/१०, १:५३ PM
Tank म्हणाले...: I thought this part of the article was "fun"

This is an unsettling reality brought into stark relief on a regular basis by news headlines -- like last week’s reports on the conviction of the Christian zealot who murdered a physician in the vestibule of a church because the zealot did not approve of the doctor’s determination to provide reproductive health care to women.

Um, I don't think it was the "reproductive health care" in general; I'm pretty sure it was the ABORTIONS.

Oh.

Disclaimer: No, of course I don't defend killing abortion providers. I'm not even anti-choice. But is this "journalism?"; २/२/१०, १:५६ PM
Hoosier Daddy म्हणाले...: The tactic for fighting speech you don't like or agree with is more speech, not less.

Don't think anyone here is asking for less speech, merely pointing out the absurdity of the article drawing such a ridiculous moral equivalency.; २/२/१०, १:५९ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Plus, what religion is responsible for the relatively liberal and progressive culture that we enjoy? From what religious tradition did our present set of rights evolve?

Roman and Greek Paganism!; २/२/१०, २:०२ PM
Joe M. म्हणाले...: Wow. That editorial you've linked is simply atrocious.; २/२/१०, २:०४ PM
KCFleming म्हणाले...: I would be in favor of less stupid speech, like this article.

Not a ban to stupid speech, mind you, just the professionalism to write a decent story about the actual subject at hand (Muslim mistreatment of women), and a sense of shame delimiting the production of such claptrap.; २/२/१०, २:०४ PM
former law student म्हणाले...: it hasn't been uncontroversial.
Well, she does work for a right-wing think tank. I'm sure if her colleague Lynne Cheney showed up, she'd raise some controversy, too.

But if you mean her attitude towards Islam, Hirsi's Infidel -- a great read by the way -- chronicles what I would call the Islamic Reformation. Being from a young woman's point of view -- usually suppressed or missing -- makes the book especially fascinating.

Moral equivalence time: Reformations typically include upheaval and violence -- witness the religious wars in France between the Catholics and the Huguenots. We Americans care because the radical reformers see us and the West in general as a source of apostasy that must be suppressed/purged.; २/२/१०, २:०६ PM
Tank म्हणाले...: Hey, speaking of journalism, apparently the White House is now editing Reuters.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/white-house-gets-reuters-to-pull-budget-story.php; २/२/१०, २:०९ PM
Scott M म्हणाले...: rdkraus

Hey, speaking of journalism, apparently the White House is now editing Reuters.

This is yet another example of the old political playbook not working in the age of the internet. Once something is out, it's out. It makes both the WH and Reuters look awful. Has either organization tried to spin this yet?; २/२/१०, २:१७ PM
traditionalguy म्हणाले...: Wow! This article shamlessly says that a bad christian acting against the teachings his religion's founder hunting down and killing an abortionist or something also justifies by an equivalence argument the moslems who are following the teachings of their religion's founder to treat all women as a lesser race akin to cattle that can be beaten and killed for rebellious acts towards men. Such scape-goating of Cristians and Jews is evil propaganda. How many people of German ancestry live in Wisconsin anyway.; २/२/१०, २:१८ PM
bagoh20 म्हणाले...: That woman is a hero of rare order in today's world.; २/२/१०, २:२१ PM
Synova म्हणाले...: I saw an interview with her once where the interviewer tried to pull that "we've got it so bad in the US, too, we treat people so poorly" thing and she *laughed* at him.

I'm serious. Tipped her head back and laughed *at* him.; २/२/१०, २:२४ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: Hey, speaking of journalism, apparently the White House is now editing Reuters.

Freeman Hunt linked to the original deleted story here; २/२/१०, २:२४ PM
muddimo म्हणाले...: "Roman and Greek Paganism!"

Sure, I'll give a hat tip to the ancient Romans and Greeks, and to the Hebrews, and to every other culture that affected the development of our own. But we don't live in a pagan Roman or Greek society, despite their contributions. We live in a society founded morally on Christian values and by people who used those values to establish a political framework that rather uniquely provided for the advancement of human dignity. And here we are today. Human society, in general, has never known such personal freedom, such respect for the rights of others including those of other genders, races, and religions. There are still many dark corners in the world but we have made immense progress. We are a long way from loving each other as Christ taught us but it remains an excellent goal. Luckily, many still strive for that goal, though imperfectly. The secular humanists and other relativists will follow in the slipstream, basically unknowing and unaware.; २/२/१०, २:२४ PM
Hoosier Daddy म्हणाले...: Moral equivalence time: Reformations typically include upheaval and violence -- witness the religious wars in France between the Catholics and the Huguenots. We Americans care because the radical reformers see us and the West in general as a source of apostasy that must be suppressed/purged.

Well I for one would not have a problem with an Islamic Reformation if they were content to keep the slaughter amongst themselves and leave us and the West out of it.

The problem with your moral equivalence is that the French Catholics weren’t off killing Muslims, Hindus or whoever while working over the Huguenots.; २/२/१०, २:२७ PM
muddimo म्हणाले...: Which is fine. It is good to have critics but also good to understand when they are idiots!; २/२/१०, २:२७ PM
Freeman Hunt म्हणाले...: Religious extremists intimidate, threaten and sometimes even kill in the name of their “true faith.”
This is an unsettling reality brought into stark relief on a regular basis by news headlines -- like last week’s reports on the conviction of the Christian zealot who murdered a physician in the vestibule of a church because the zealot did not approve of the doctor’s determination to provide reproductive health care to women.

He HATED pap smears. Mammograms too.; २/२/१०, २:२८ PM
Freeman Hunt म्हणाले...: LOL I love the juxtaposition of the worries that her visit will lead people to make negative assumptions about Muslims with the worries that she might be assassinated because she's criticizing Islam.; २/२/१०, २:३२ PM
Hoosier Daddy म्हणाले...: Mammograms too.

That is understandable. Mrs. Hoosier once said she'd like to kill whoever invented that machine.; २/२/१०, २:३९ PM
Tank म्हणाले...: Ha.

Hoosier beat me to it.

My wife loathes those machines.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.; २/२/१०, २:४१ PM
TMink म्हणाले...: Nobody is so bereft of humanity as he, or even (gasps) she who critiques abortion or socialism.

Just read, you will see it is so.

Trey; २/२/१०, २:४५ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: My dad, who worked for the Cap Times from 1960 to 1977 as a printer, once told me that The Capital Times opposed America's entry into WW II. I never gave it much though until now. If you snoop around the Cap Times history online, you'll find lots of glowing stories about how founder William T. Evjue proudly started the paper in 1917 because of his opposition to WW I. Missing of course is any online record of what Evjue thought or wrote about during Hilter's rise or America's entry into the second world war (Oh, I'm sure the editorials are there to read somewhere, but they are nowhere to be found online). Why dat?

The historical record does seem to indicate that after Pearl Harbor and public opposition had evaporated, Bill Evjue got on board the bandwagon:
And so the issue is drawn,' Evjue wrote in a signed front page editorial. 'It is now a fight to the death between the nations dominated by the brutal cult of totalitarianism and the nations of free peoples left in the world. The battle is now joined between Naziism and Fascism on one side and democracy on the other.'

I guess it will take another 9/11 for the Cap Times to rethink their current position.; २/२/१०, ३:०० PM
muddimo म्हणाले...: "I love the juxtaposition of the worries that her visit will lead people to make negative assumptions about Muslims with the worries that she might be assassinated because she's criticizing Islam."

It really is surreal! The cognitive dissonance must be painful.

Too bad the author(s) can't just admit that radical Muslims are b*stards. I think it pretty much goes without saying that most Muslims do not want to slit throats and fly planes into buildings. Really no need to make such a big deal about it.; २/२/१०, ३:०१ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: The news reporter is thinking, hoping, "I'm safe."

Go see Hirsi Ali. She is a great speaker, and demolishes weak arguments with wit and intelligence.; २/२/१०, ३:०३ PM
Greg Hlatky म्हणाले...: I guess it will take another 9/11 for the Cap Times to rethink their current position.

Um, no.; २/२/१०, ३:१६ PM
Steven म्हणाले...: There's only one major religion in the world today that was founded by someone depicted in its own scriptures as a truce-breaking warlord.; २/२/१०, ३:१९ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: Um, no.

Um, yeah!; २/२/१०, ३:२३ PM
mccullough म्हणाले...: "This is an unsettling reality brought into stark relief on a regular basis by news headlines -- like last week’s reports on the conviction of the Christian zealot who murdered a physician in the vestibule of a church because the zealot did not approve of the doctor’s determination to provide reproductive health care to women."

What is so unsettling about someone being convicted of murder?; २/२/१०, ३:२५ PM
kentuckyliz म्हणाले...: I would love to see her.

Speaking of women's health care, and the iPad...who was the genius who decided to call the mammogram machine HOLOGIC?; २/२/१०, ३:२९ PM
JAL म्हणाले...: And we would note that Islam is not the only religion that has some extreme adherents who move beyond words and arguments to intimidate, threaten and even murder -- as the killing in Kansas has painfully reminded so many sincere Christians who, like so many sincere Muslims, embrace and espouse tolerance, forgiveness and the pursuit of peace.

Thank you, whoever you are, for opening up our blind eyes.

While you were at it, why didn't you mention Fred Phelps & Family? You would really overwhelm us with outliers. Note how Focus on the Family and the Christian Right have jumped on board with those actions. I mean, look at the fatwas they've issued! (Oh. Well...)

Muslim women rejoicing in the streets after 9/11, a woman zealot blowing up more than 50 women and children at a check point for Muslim Sh'ite women pilgrims on the way to celebrate Arba'een, slaughter of other Muslims because they don't cross the t's and dot the i's correctly, or associate with the Great Satan, or are Jews, or write a book, or make a movie ....

And the Muslim community? {crickets}

C'mon guys. Step up to the plate.

Ayann Hirtsi Ali did.

She's got guts.; २/२/१०, ३:४६ PM
Michael म्हणाले...: Surely her presence in Madison will serve as a recruiting tool for
AQ.; २/२/१०, ३:५८ PM
former law student म्हणाले...: I just had a thought: Maybe Kirsti Ali could come to Wisconsin and talk about her weight problem.; २/२/१०, ३:५९ PM
Original Mike म्हणाले...: Can there be any doubt why The Capital Times went under?; २/२/१०, ४:१५ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Even before Ayaan Hirsi Ali appears, the progressives of UW are on the defensive. These enablers aren't worth the dirt they squat on.; २/२/१०, ४:२५ PM
Big Mike म्हणाले...: Maybe Ayaan Hirsi Ali can give her talk in Sterling Hall, where 39 1/2 years ago left-wing radicals demonstrated their commitment to peace by detonating a bomb that murdered a physics postdoc.

Wisconsin is not exactly a tolerant university.; २/२/१०, ४:५८ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: I like Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She's doing something vital and crazy brave.

At the same time, I wish some Islamic radical would be out a fatwa condemning me to death so I could write a book that would sell and get rich on the university speaking circuit.; २/२/१०, ५:०८ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: Maybe Ayaan Hirsi Ali can give her talk in Sterling Hall, where 39 1/2 years ago left-wing radicals demonstrated their commitment to peace by detonating a bomb that murdered a physics postdoc.

BigMike: The scars are still visible: Link; २/२/१०, ५:२५ PM
pst314 म्हणाले...: "Rashid Dar, the thoughtful president of the UW-Madison Muslim Students Association, says, 'Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a speaker who attributes certain rather negative qualities to the Islamic faith as a whole'."

Gee, Rashid, do you think it could have anything to do with the fact that when she spoke out against cruel Muslim practices, Muslims did not step forward to defend her? And speaking of the silence of the supposedly moderate Muslim majority, don't forget Canada's Irshad Manji, who also is virtually entirely without Muslim defenders.

I am also amused that the Capitol Quisling characterizes Ayaan Hirsi Ali as "controversial" and her critic, president of the extremist MSA, as "thoughtful". Perhaps we should also describe leaders of the German-American Bund as "thoughtful".; २/२/१०, ५:४७ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: Why would a person with an edict of death on her head from a religion criticize the religion in any way?

It is so befuddling.; २/२/१०, ५:४९ PM
chickelit म्हणाले...: Why would a person with an edict of death on her head from a religion criticize the religion in any way?

Because she still can. I seriously doubt it's the money.; २/२/१०, ५:५३ PM
अनामित म्हणाले...: I know she's not in it for the money. I'm just looking for ways to make money in this economy and the male-prostitute-for-twenysomething-women thing isn't taking off like I hoped.; २/२/१०, ६:०४ PM
Hoosier Daddy म्हणाले...: 'Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a speaker who attributes certain rather negative qualities to the Islamic faith as a whole'."

Well actually its not so much her as the excitable Muslim men who hide behind masks cheering God is Great while they saw off some poor bastard's head that gives your cult negative qualities.; २/२/१०, ६:३६ PM
Freeman Hunt म्हणाले...: Also hilarious:

The speaker faces assassination threats because, as she says, “when you criticize Islam, you’ll find people who object to it don’t always do it only by using words and arguments, but they also intimidate, threaten and kill.”

We have been impressed by the graceful manner in which Rashid Dar and other Muslim students have used wise words and arguments to object.

A pat on the head for not threatening or killing people? Wow, talk about soft bigotry of low expectations!; २/२/१०, ७:४३ PM
reader_iam म्हणाले...: Evicting Moral Courage

Something I wrote just a few months short of four years ago with regard to Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Man, it seems way longer ago.; २/२/१०, ८:०६ PM
Pastafarian म्हणाले...: I would have liked to have seen someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali win the Nobel Peace Prize, instead of President Obama.

Actually, I would have preferred that my cat, Fischer (who deplores peace in any context) win the prize before Obama. But someone like this woman would have been even better than my cat.

There are just a few people like this, who are our best hope for some sort of reformation of Islam, and there are only two ways we'll ever finish the war that Islam is waging against us: Reformation, or extermination. These few people will make history in the coming years, one way or the other.; २/२/१०, ८:१८ PM
Hoosier Daddy म्हणाले...: A pat on the head for not threatening or killing people? Wow, talk about soft bigotry of low expectations!

You know, that's something you'd expect to see in The Onion.; २/२/१०, ९:५४ PM
Kirby Olson म्हणाले...: Live blog her transit!; २/२/१०, १०:२६ PM
former law student म्हणाले...: I can't picture how Hirsi Ali, however personally courageous, and however much she personally suffered, did "the most or best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies, and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses," satisfying Alfred Nobel's criteria for the award.

Obama made it clear the US had rejoined the fraternity of nations, and would no longer be a rogue state, jinning up our own interpretations of customary international law.; २/२/१०, १०:४६ PM
reader_iam म्हणाले...: I can't picture how Hirsi Ali, however personally courageous, and however much she personally suffered, did "the most or best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies, and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses," satisfying Alfred Nobel's criteria for the award.; २/२/१०, ११:०६ PM
Joe Giles म्हणाले...: I first read the editorial and thought, "bad, even by college newspaper standards."

My mistake.; २/२/१०, ११:३५ PM
Freeman Hunt म्हणाले...: So by Nobel's criteria, you could win by wholesale slaughtering another big army belonging to a nation many others don't like as long as you held a peace conference afterwards.; २/२/१०, ११:४६ PM
reader_iam म्हणाले...: Freeman: It seems to me that the Nobel organization long, long ago abandoned the concept that there can be a "standard, rule, or test on which a judgment or decision can be based." It threw the concept of criterion/criteria under the bus.

So, yes: Anything's possible, and not in the good sense of that cliche.; ३/२/१०, १२:२९ AM
reader_iam म्हणाले...: ही टिप्पणी लेखकाना हलविली आहे.; ३/२/१०, १२:३७ AM
reader_iam म्हणाले...: The other thing I want to say is that I'd bet tons that a miniscule number of "'netizens" have ever visited, much less seriously explored, the Nobel site.

On the one hand, I totally understand that (really I do). On the other, it's hard to excuse it.

; ); ३/२/१०, १२:४१ AM
dick म्हणाले...: fls,

Joined the community of nations and then immediately started firing drones into Pakistan without asking permission. Way to go with joining that community if that is what he got the prize for. Still not deserved.; ३/२/१०, १२:५५ AM
Automatic_Wing म्हणाले...: Alfred Nobel made a fortune in the explosives business, then felt bad about it and invented his little set of do-gooder awards to compensate.

His Peace Prize is stained with white liberal guilt.; ३/२/१०, ८:०७ AM
former law student म्हणाले...: reader -- I saw no parallels to Hirsi Ali's remarkable life here:

In 1988 came a change of policy. In a speech at a special United Nations session held in Geneva, Switzerland, Arafat declared that the PLO renounced terrorism and supported "the right of all parties concerned in the Middle East conflict to live in peace and security, including the state of Palestine, Israel and other neighbours".

The prospects for a peace agreement with Israel now brightened. After a setback when the PLO supported Iraq in the Persian Gulf War of 1991, the peace process began in earnest, leading to the Oslo Accords of 1993.

This agreement included provision for the Palestinian elections which took place in early 1996, and Arafat was elected President of the Palestine Authority

What group did Hirsi Ali lead? What did it accomplish?

Joined the community of nations and then immediately started firing drones into Pakistan without asking permission.

Pakistanis don't want Taliban within their borders, either. But I agree they want their borders respected: They proposed last month that we give them their own drone aircraft, to hunt down the Taliban with.; ३/२/१०, ९:१३ AM
pst314 म्हणाले...: "Well, she does work for a right-wing think tank."

Well, perhaps she would be working elsewhere if she hadn't been scorned and ignored by all the "progressive" organizations that FLS prefers.

Funny how right-wingers are so often the ones fighting for freedom of speech, while lefties are the ones trying to silence speech.; ३/२/१०, १०:१८ AM
pst314 म्हणाले...: "What group did Hirsi Ali lead? What did it accomplish?"

Ask immigrant women in the Netherlands about what she did. And the struggle continues, although many "progressives" seem to be uninterested.; ३/२/१०, १०:२० AM
pst314 म्हणाले...: "Arafat declared that the PLO renounced terrorism"

Sort of like how the Soviet Union supported human rights on paper while continuing to commit whatever outrages it wished.; ३/२/१०, १०:२२ AM
former law student म्हणाले...: Ask immigrant women in the Netherlands about what she did.

Can you give me a pointer? Googling doesn't help.; ३/२/१०, १:३९ PM
pst314 म्हणाले...: Try reading her book "Infidel" for some information about what she did while in the Netherlands.; ३/२/१०, ५:२० PM