For nearly a year? Then it's Bush's FBI too. Disgraceful.
The FBI said Hasan -- who faces a court-martial -- first turned up on its radar in December 2008.Yeah? And what are they missing now?
That's when he sent 10 to 20 e-mails to several terror-related Islamic figures, including Anwar Aulaqi, a radical imam from Virginia who has been openly propagandizing for al Qaeda in Yemen and who had ties to several of the 9/11 hijackers...
But no alarm bells went off because the communications were consistent with Hasan's research into how US combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan affect civilians, officials insisted. The e-mails never made explicit threats or discussed plots, they added....
Federal sources admitted that Hasan was so off their radar by that point that they hadn't even been aware of his gun purchases in Texas in August.
Investigators say they were still operating on the theory that Hasan, 39, acted alone.
पोस्ट्स
२०५ टिप्पण्या:
205 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»WTF? This keeps getting worse. Supposedly we needed the Patriot Act so we can protect American lives from terror. So they get the information and do NOTHING with it?
They are still in denial. How many more have to be killed before this changes?
This is just like John O'Neill and how he was unable to prevent 9/11 (and then ironically died at the WTC that day, after being driven out of the FBI).
From the Post:
"It emerged that Hasan warned Army doctors 18 months ago that to avoid "adverse events," the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors."
So basically every warning sign was there: consistently bashing his country and its Army whilst serving as an officer in said Army; communicating with radicalised clergy who didn't discourage his attitude; constantly trying to prosletyse his Islamic beliefs in even the most inappropriate settings, even when fellow Muslims berated and contradicted him; and warning of "adverse events".
Note, when "warnings" become reality, they suddenly transform themselves into threats. That's what he was doing, not warning anyone of anything. It was a thinly-veiled threat that either you do X, or else Y will happen.
Who now will claim this is another "failure of imagination" by the US government to prevent such an event from happening?
Cheers,
Victoria
We've been hearing that Hassan's colleagues had been complaining about him since 2007, so the Bush Administration has been somewhat culpable all along. As is the Obama Administration, the Army, the DoD and the national intelligence and law enforcement communities. There's plenty of blame to go around.
VW: dessest - a cease and dissest order issued by a desert
We are not only unprotected, we prohibit it.
The FBI is as politically correct as any other branch of the government. That's the problem.
Well you knew it had to be Bush's fault. But when criticism of the PC aspect of this leads to people calling you racist, what do you expect.
No I am not calling for WWII type discrimination to deal with Muslims in the military, or on flights, or anywhere else. But when you have a Muslim giving clear signals of where he is going--and let's face facts we have a problem with Muslim suicide bombers, not Christians, not Hindus, not Mormons,-hightened scrutiny and common sense is required.
We are not only unprotected, we prohibit it.
Wow. Pogo wins the thread.
And yeah, I know Hasan did not strap a bomb to himself, he used a handgun. Still, it is pretty easy to connect the dots after the fact with Hasan.
Even this week, Andrew Sullivan is more concerned going after Christianist (he provocatively said Fred Phellps was a right wing Christianist--when Phellps is rejected by all sane people everywhere) and blaming Michelle Malkin for being too Michelle about Muslims.
Except Andrew does not exactly exercise restraint when it comes to Sarah Palin. I am not for attacking all Muslims, but I am for reasonably investigating and prosecuting the Hasans of this country when they have committed crimes but before they actually kill people.
The Bush Administration was attacked by the left for doing that after 9/11. And the Obama administration is not exactly focused on that. Sorry. But it is true.
Again, this is the same FBI that told us the Beltway Sniper would turn out to be a white, fundamentalist, right-wing gun nut.
Now we know where Montagne/Freder/fls work(s).
Approximately 60% of the agents in both the CIA and the FBI are liberal Democrats.
These are the agents who secretly release our war plans to the NY Times. You read about them all the time, so it should come as no surprise that there are rogue agents within the intelligence community who frequently break the law.
Those rogue agents are now working to protect their confederates in al Queda who are already in the country. They conduct "investigations" should one of their men turn up on the radar.
After the "investigation" is over, of course, their man conveniently doesn't pose any sort of a threat.
Now ... I'm not sure how a Muslim US military major caught talking with a radical Muslim Imam located in Yemen doesn't post a threat, but apparently the FBI and CIA are so corrupted that this guy had plenty of cover in the intelligence community.
The Democrat-controlled FBI and the Democrat-congrolled CIA are not protecting us. They're protecting their friends in al Queda who are launching attacks on our infrastructure from within our country, using our training, our weapons and our ammunition against us.
And they're doing so freely because Democrats in the FBI and CIA are protecting them.
Democrats in Homeland Security are now feverishly protecting the rest of them from any possible "backlash" that this operation might cause.
Can't have the sleeping giant awaken, now can we?
We'll see a lot more of this.
Hussein Obama is dithering in Afghanistan in order to give al Queda time to regroup, rearm and fortify its positions. He'll announce we've lost the war and bring the troops home, but not until after the 2010 elections.
No sense bringing hundreds of thousands of conservative Republicans back into the United States to tip the political balance in the 2010 congressional races.
So, he'll leave them to their slaughter until the time is right to announce defeat and bring them home.
Welcome to Hussein Obama's America, folks.
Oh, speaking of the Beltway Sniper, his appeal was rejected and he is due to fry this very Tuesday night.
What's the problem?
He communicated with a radical cleric? So has the POTUS. (see Jeremiah "God, damn Amerika" Wright.
The government does not serve me or protect me -- but it demands my money and my obedience.
What's wrong with this picture?
This is absurd.
a radical imam from Virginia who has been openly propagandizing for al Qaeda in Yemen and who had ties to several of the 9/11 hijackers...
I dont like the word "ties" here. If this iman were a member of al-Qaeda, why is he not behind bars? Or at least expelled from the country?
If he was just an anti-American ranter, and not an active member of al-Qaeda, Hasan's emails to him would be suspicious but not conclusive, as the FBI's lack of reaction suggests.
Although hindsight is notoriously 20-20, in real life the FBI has to prioritize the threats that it will investigate, because no one has infinite resources. Personally I would put the burden on the Army to be responsible to have an accurate picture of each of their personnel. A twenty-year man has been evaluated many times by many different officers. Now if the Army expressed concerns to the FBI and the FBI dropped the ball, that would be different.
Hindsight is easy.
Yeah, it's a fuck up, but the real fuck up comes from within the army.
The FBI monitors about a zillion and a half emails, and they can't investigate everything. I think you need to know the content of the emails before becoming too critical. If they point towards a high level of hatred, or some proclivity for action, I would be very critical. But if they are relatively innocuous, I think their response is understandable. They can't possibly have the resources to investigate everyone who has contact with a radical Muslim figure.
On the other hand, the Army had numerous warning signals over a lengthly period of time. Their inaction seem inexcusable.
And why is there not some overlap between the army and FBI databases?
For nearly a year is less than a year and we don't know how any orders/personnel changes put in place by Obama effected the FBI.
Bush was a bad president but I wouldn't put this at his feet.
At least Bush was at Ft.Hood this weekend while Obama was at Camp David.
"... no alarm bells went off because the communications were consistent with Hasan's research into how US combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan affect civilians, officials insisted."
What's not written here, what they want you not to notice, is that they are refusing to release these innocuous emails.
If they're so innocuous, why won't they release them?
It's because liberal Democrats in the FBI and the CIA are either covering up for their al Queda compatriots or they are covering up their own incompetence.
They will never release these emails. Hussein Obama will stamp them top secret.
And we'll always have to take their word for it anytime something like this comes up. Meanwhile, our women and children law on the ground by the scores, bleeding and dying.
Remember: To the Democrat-controlled FBI and CIA, A major in the United States Army can communicate with radical Muslim terrorists in Yemen ... just so long as they only talk about the weather and how combat operations affect civilians.
What. The. Fuck.
How stupid do they think we are? Why would Hasan be doing research on the effect of war operations on civilians?
What possible military advantage can be gained by such research.
This cover story isn't worth the toilet paper they've written it on.
The cover-up has begun folks. And Democrats control the White House, the Senate, the House, the FBI and now the CIA.
We are well and truly fucked.
"But no alarm bells went off because the communications were consistent with Hasan's research into how US combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan affect civilians, officials insisted."
And how would that be?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Show me the proposed design of this study.
Not in ONE TRILLION years (a number we are becoming very familiar with, right?) is that relevant to the reported "study."
And what was this study for? When did he finish his MPH? Since when are practicing psychiatrists doing "research?" For whom what when where and why?
Who are his fellow researchers,co-authors?
CYA
And thirteen families are grieving, and another 30 are hurting. Unnecessarily.
And Americans on the street are betrayed.
And pissed.
Blame game, blame a lama ding dong.
How 'bout we blame the nutbag who pulled the trigger and call it a day?
Some crimes cannot be prevented. So what if they kicked this guy out of the army? He could have shot up a shopping mall. You can't banish death and evil from the world, America.
Hasan the shooter is to blame for the Fort Hood shootings.
"... no alarm bells went off because the communications were consistent with Hasan's research into how US combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan affect civilians, officials insisted."
This is such bullshit.
Follow me for a moment:
Anyone who understand how mole operations work understand these emails perfectly. They're called "pings."
Once an undercover operative is in place, he goes deep cover. There are no communications of any kind related to the nature of the operation sent from that moment on.
The only types of communication that are allowed are "pings." These could be one-time cell phone calls or otherwise innocuous emails that tell the supervisors of the operation that the operative is still alive and on track to complete his operation.
No tactical details would ever be discussed in a "ping" message. The stupidest moron Al Queda operative is aware of the eavesdropping capabilities of the intelligence services worldwide (thanks to their friends in the New York Times newsroom).
Most times, the contents of the "ping" emails are meaningless. They only tell the supervisor that the operative is alive and hasn't been caught.
If the operative misses a scheduled email (and then later suddenly resumes emailing) then the supervisor of the operation can assume that the operative has been compromised and can cease further contact.
Sometimes, the contents of the emails do have meaning; sometimes, there are secretly coded pre-arranged messages that can convey all sorts of information between the supervisor and the operative. TO the casual observer, the emails would appear to have no meaning; but to the operative and the supervisor of the operation, they convey much information.
The fact that these emails were occurring between a US major and a Yemeni imam should have been enough to trigger a massive operation to remove this al Queda mole from our midst before he could launch his operation.
Either the fucking FBI is so incompetent that it can't spot a deep cover mole right under it's fucking nose, or (much more plausible) they were actively assisting in the operation and helping to keep the al Queda undercover.
We may never know what this operative's real mission was. It was likely not the murder of 13 people. This was his fallback operation should he be unable to complete his main operation.
The FBI and CIA appear to be actively involved in a major coverup today.
Ann, don't be gullible. There's a reason the mainstream press didn't run with this story at first, and it is in large part that they wanted to find a tie to the policies of the Bush administration. But it's really difficult to do that here. The article says the emails were sent and intercepted in December 2008, but only "later" were they referred to FBI and Army investigators. How much later? (And: Didn't Obama run on shutting down the kind of surveillance ignored here?)
That's ok.
All this is much ado about nothing.
I heard GEN Cone (Fort Hood) say on the radio this morning that this wasn't about religion.
Relax.
wv sublient
submisively compliant
"The FBI monitors about a zillion and a half emails, and they can't investigate everything. I think you need to know the content of the emails before becoming too critical."
Hmmmm ... let's see:
1) Unhappy Muslim
2) Major with special weapons training
3) Communicating surreptitiously with 9/11 imam over the internet
4) Located in Yemen
Nah, no threat there.
That's laughably implausible that they wouldn't see the threat. Guy had cover in the agency. It's the only way he gets away with this sort of contact.
Even you can't be stupid enough to believe this laughable cover story. Can you?
The family of the person who was shot in Florida the next day would also probably like to know how the FBI, the CIA, the Bush and Obama administrations are responsible. Then again, probably not, because the disgruntled fatbody who pulled the trigger was responsible.
"Approximately 60% of the agents in both the CIA and the FBI are liberal Democrats."
That's very impressive, and very handy, how you pull made up "facts" out of your ass.
I'm reading Matthew Yglesias' blogpost about this, and he grudgingly, almost like toe-nail pulling admits:
"[I]t also looks like he was motivated by some kind of politico-Islamic ideology. [...]
I think a pretty good case can be made that this kind of situation actually is the main face of the terrorist threat. Not a big well-thought-out plot centrally directed from a “safe haven” in South Asia and undertaken by brilliant covert operatives, but the desperate violent act of a clearly disturbed individual. It’s going to be very hard to prevent this sort of thing. As long as the United States remains a country in which firearms are widely available—for the foreseeable future, in other words—we’re going to be unusually vulnerable to mentally ill spree killers of various kinds, including spree killers who nod in the direction of Islamist thinking."
What messy logic. Handguns will always be available to military personnel, which is who we are dealing with now. This isn't the Beltway Sniper or "spree killer" who snapped and bought a handgun at some pawn shop. He is NOT a spree killer. He's an Islamic terrorist. He had an objective to kill as many people as possible, in the name of Allah, even if giving his life in the process was the consequence.
I am so but so very glad he didn't die. I want to see him try to defend himself in court, and then watch this bastard fry too.
Shanna said:
"This is absurd."
That is a thread winner!
Hasan had a security clearance. He was supposed to report:
Any personal exchange with nationals or
representatives of designated countries should be reported
when he didn't, and the FBI had proof those contacts existed, that should have either triggered more looking or a "chat"
Does it even bear mentioning that Hasan received a concealed weapons permit from the commonwealth of Virginia? Are we supposed to feel safe knowing that anyone who passes a perfunctory criminal background check can carry a handgun?
Or is this part of the whole affair not what the gun lovers would like to talk about?
The FIBBIES are law enforcement and as such they are tough on the politically unconnected, but are almost solicitous on the politically connected. J. Edgar taught them well. The Islamic dilemma is not an easy one to do law enforcement upon. Until 10 years ago we had to tell women in abusive relationships and neighbor and family members of nut jobs to "Wait until the subject attacks you, and then the law can get involved". That is because being hateful and unbalanced is not a crime. Even if Islamic people are hateful and unbalanced, that is not a crime. The answer has been stalking laws. Once an application for a Protective Order is heard by a judge, then a Temporary Order can be made permanent for a year. The hateful and unbalanced guy is in Anger Management and has to flee when he sees the protected people in a public place. He also has to surrender his guns to the police. That reasoning sounds like what the Islamic nuts need applied to them by the law. BUT, will it be applied to conservatives next? Our friend Florida sometime tries hard to sound hateful and unbalanced, although he seems to be a conservative. Where would the line be drawn on Pre-acts punishments and restraints for just being scary?
Honestly, I don't get why the Army kept him on. Really. I don't blame them, because of political correctness and wanting to get as much return for their investment, but I suppose I do find their actions nonsensical.
We only know the tip of the iceberg with this guy, but what we know stinks to high heaven.
When he got a lawyer to get him out of the Army, and even offered to repay them for his medical training, I don't understand why the Army didn't cut this whackjob loose.
Can someone explain the Army's logic about harbouring a vociferous anti-American despite repeated attempts to leave it, please?
"How 'bout we blame the nutbag who pulled the trigger and call it a day? Hasan the shooter is to blame for the Fort Hood shootings."
Yep, the liberal Democrats are out in force today urging that we stop investigating this massacre and "call it a day."
That's how you know we've stepped on a nerve. We've hit them in a soft spot.
The mere fact that they want us to stop investigating should be a clear warning signal that we're treading where they don't want us to go. That we're getting close to them.
Your country has been infiltrated folks. al Queda is in the United States and they have lots of friends here who are willing to sell out your country to help them achieve their socio-economic and political goals.
Our women, our children are the ones laying on the ground bleeding and dying; and yet they urge that we just accept it and walk away. To call it a day.
Leaving those who protected Hasan to continue on in their intelligence jobs helping all the other operatives that are also in the United States ready to launch their operations when the moment is right.
They want us to not investigate.
What does that tell you?
Yep, the liberal Democrats are out in force today urging that we stop investigating this massacre and "call it a day."
Cite, please. (I'm not wise-assing you, I really want to know who said that.)
I get in trouble for logging into Hotmail.
LOL, as soon as Montagne read what Matthew Yglesias had to say, he immediately picks up the anti-handgun meme. Well done!
"I want to see him try to defend himself in court, and then watch this bastard fry too."
Yeah, there's gonna be a lot of memes that fail the day this guy yells "Allah uh Ackbar" at the judge on day one of his show trial.
When he starts yelling at the court about being tried by a bunch of dirty, dirty infidels
How he wants to be hung so he can complete his mission to become a martyr and start fucking virgin #1 of his alloted 72. How the Koran directs all of his activities.
I wonder if Chris Matthews will be able to connect the dots once the trial starts.
I doubt he will.
"Cite, please. (I'm not wise-assing you, I really want to know who said that.)"
Cite: Montagne Montaigne said... Blame game, blame a lama ding dong How 'bout we blame the nutbag who pulled the trigger and call it a day?"
Clearly, Montagne the liberal Democrat wants us to stop investigations and "call it a day," without discovering who Hasan's confederates in the FBI and CIA are who "investigated" him and pronounced him to not be any kind of a threat.
Who allowed him to complete his mission.
florida- love your writing. entertaining as hell. keep it up.
Where is the Bush Stumbled tag?!
Investigating the intelligence industry is fine. But don't tell me anyone is "responsible" for those people's deaths other than Hasan. He pulled the trigger. No one can make you do that or stop you from doing that before you do it.
You want to see conspiracy everywhere because you are a paranoid reactionary, Florida. But there was no conspiracy, there is no "cover up." Just an evil nut who had plentiful access to firearms in the good ol' gun lovin' USA.
I share everyone's frustration that Hasan's behavior was ignored.
But, really, this is the logical outcome of the current zeitgeist. A good portion of the country objects to the sort of surveillance tactics that are in the Patriot Act. Many likely object to the FBI even monitoring Hasan's emails.
So on one hand there are efforts to limit or destroy our ability to keep tabs on dangerous people within our borders. And on the other hand, you've got Political Correctness infesting even military/defense institutions. Specifically, this creates an atmosphere of fear and intimidation that deters people from reporting odd behavior like Hasan's precisely because because he was a devout and vocal Muslim.
Under these circumstances, how in the world are we supposed to prevent attacks like this? Indeed, how are we to have a robust and effective defense department?
I am really just elaborating on what Pogo already said: our government is being, from all sides, prohibited from protecting us.
"Are we supposed to feel safe knowing that anyone who passes a perfunctory criminal background check can carry a handgun?"
Considering that this is more than the Constitution requires of us, you should feel safer than if a criminal background check isn't performed at all. (That's called "logic." Google it!)
We have the right to bear arms. The Constitution gives us that right. Not the courts. Not Liberal Democrats. The Constitution.
I'm sure you'd rather live in an America where only criminals can arm themselves. But the sane among us would rather not thank you very much.
So eat it, punk
It's unimaginable the FBI didn't notify the Army it had a major security risk on its hands. Of course it did.
The question is why they didn't take more decisive action. They did transfer him out of Washington, the last place you want a jihadist in uniform. They gave him an unstatisfactory fitness report and they then reasssigned him to Afghanistan to get him farther away from trouble.
One more unsatisfactory fitness report would have prevented a promotion, ending his army career.
The problem is the army should have done more, and done it quicker.
"But don't tell me anyone is responsible for those people's deaths other than Hasan. He pulled the trigger."
You don't really think anyone else here believes we should stop the investigation, do you?
* Who supplied him the guns?
* Who bought the ammo?
* Who gave him a ride to the scene?
* Who in the FBI pronounced him "not a threat"
* Who radicalized him?
* Who in the CIA allowed him to contact radical Imam's in Yemen?
* Who protected him?
You may not want to know the names of his co-conspirators, but we do. There will be a full and complete investigation ... whether that occurs now ... or whether it has to wait until Republicans take back our country on November 4, 2010.
But there will be a credible Congressional investigation featuring lots of sworn witnesses under oath.
It will probably take years to uncover all the liberal Democrats in the CIA and FBI who helped Hasan complete his Jihad.
Of that, you can rest assured.
florida- is your president, Mr. Obama, personally responsible for this outrage?
Hasan is responsible for the deaths but there are a lot of people who should have seen the OBVIOUS writing on the wall and did nothing... mostly apparently out of fear of the PC thought police and multiculti types.
This is a huge scandal and one is left wondering... how many more Hasan's are out there, and no one wants to say anything lest the Thought Police call you a racist and destroy your career?
Maybe the investigators felt that he was gaming the system in order to get out of his deployment. The man had completed medical school, residency, and a fellowship in psychiatry. You just don't equate that kind of background with mass murder......Maybe that was the problem. Mormons when they go off the deep end with their religion take a few extra brides. I'm sure that the overwhelming majority of Mormons are monogamous, but polygamy happens among their frayed ends. It's a risk factor. Likewise with Muslims. It is not fair to stereotype them as terrorists, but it is foolish to deny that religious fervor is not a risk factor. We have to look at Muslims with more acuity than we do at other religious people. That's just a fact, and no one can thus baldly state it.
The key to preventing this sort of thing happening in the future does not come from the government. It will come from more and more good, law-abiding citizens carrying firearms themselves. Better a shoot-out than a massacre. Better by far.
Yes Florida, liberal democrats, probably led by Nancy Pelosi on Obama's orders, persuaded Hasan to carry out the mission.
That's a regrettable thing to think. But the questions you ask are also strange. Why would Hasan need someone else to buy a weapon and ammo for him? He passed an NRA personal protection course which allowed him to get his concealed carry permit in VA at least.
I believe he bought his handgun and ammo from a gun dealer in Kileen.
Former Law Student - that Imam with ties to Al Quaeda is out of the country. He's now in Yemen preaching Jihad.
Yes Florida, liberal democrats, probably led by Nancy Pelosi on Obama's orders, persuaded Hasan to carry out the mission.
>>>
No they just created the atmosphere where it was impossible to do anything to stop him when the obvious warning signs were seen. Blood is on their hands because of this PC shit. People are dead because of this faux racist shit.
Political correctness kills.
So how's that "he snapped from listening to war stories" theory panning out?
How about his Power Point presentations that end with "We love death more than you love life", etc, etc.
Meanwhile Montaigne Montaigne thinks the answer is gun control, and is singing an entirely different tune from that MM sang when a Christian murdered an abortion doctor not too long ago.
Dark Eden-- that's BS. And shame on you for pushing it.
What PC nazi caused the mass shooting in Orlando? Columbine? VA Tech?
Is PC nazism or bureaucratic ass-covering to blame for the military not taking action?
And if Hasan had been discharged from the military, how would he have been prevented from committing a mass shooting in some other location? He is an American citizen.
"Investigating the intelligence industry is fine. But don't tell me anyone is "responsible" for those people's deaths other than Hasan. He pulled the trigger. No one can make you do that or stop you from doing that before you do it."
Wow Monty is making sense today. Yes, the people at Famous But Incompetant or the CIA who screwed this up are not responsible for the deaths. They are just responsible for incompetence. Only Hassan is responsible for the deaths. He chose to do what he did.
Of course if Hassan had been found with a Glen Beck book, Monty would be singing a different tune. Then it would be everyone on the right's fault.
that Imam with ties to Al Quaeda is out of the country. He's now in Yemen preaching Jihad.
Shows the problem with online directories not being up to date.
Still: anyone want to try this number?
Anwar Aulaqi KAYWOOD DR
FALLS CHURCH, VA 22041 703-820-5738
Gabriel Hanna-- I certainly didn't blame "Christianity" for George Tiller's death. I'm not an idiot. Unlike those who blame "Islam" for the Ft. hood shootings.
Dark Eden-- that's BS. And shame on you for pushing it.
What PC nazi caused the mass shooting in Orlando? Columbine? VA Tech?
>>>>
The ones who made them gun free zones (aka Designated Victim Zones) and prevented the locals from defending themselves.
You just don't equate that kind of background with mass murder......Maybe that was the problem.
Finally. A logical conclusion.
That's probably what they thought -- this guy is a blowhard, but FFS, he's also an educated man, a medical doctor, a shrink. Plus, he speaks Arabic and is a Muslim, and for public relations, we need that right now.
It just went kerblewy in their face.
"Political correctness kills."
Exactly right.
And until we remove all Democrats from positions of power and influence in the country, until we remove them from our schools, from our churches, from our places of employment ... anywhere they may be found ... then we'll continue to be killed by them.
Democrat is a mental illness - it's curable. But until we find a cure, these people can't be tolerated in polite society.
They must be shunned.
Don't. Fuck. Democrats.
I don't think those instances of school shootings have much to do with this act of domestic terrorism though. Apples and Oranges.
The denial that this is terrorism are all about protecting obama from anyone stating the facts a terrorist attack, killing 13 US citizens, on US soil, at a supposedly secure US military base against US soldiers occurred during obama's watch. And that it was preventable. If Hassan were dressed in Middle Eastern garb, had a Koran in his hands, a hardcopy of emailed instructions from Al Queda and was videotapped saying death to the infidels, obama work still be saying, not terrorism.
I'm not an idiot. Unlike those who blame "Islam" for the Ft. hood shootings.
Of course you're not. Its actually quite common among most mass murderers to scream Allah Akbar while gunning down their victims, their actual religion and motivation for mass murder notwithstanding.
I believe he bought his handgun and ammo from a gun dealer in Kileen..
From a place called Guns Galore. And when ballistic tests confirm that not all the dead and wounded were shot by Hasan's weapon he bought at Guns Galore, but probably one or more responders, this all just proves we need more people armed that could have contributed to that chaotic hellfire. Tragedies like these could be avoided.
/Insta
Montaigne is right. So what if they had kicked him out of the Army? He still would have probably killed someone. Now, clearly there is a real problem in the Army if a guy can go around claiming that it is okay to kill the unbelievers and get promoted. But, that isn't what caused this and fixing that wouldn't have prevented what this nut did. It would have just re-directed it.
The question becomes what could we or should we have done to prevent this? The guy was clearly a fundementalist nutjob and clearly had mental issues. But, he hadn't committed any crimes. I think he should have been locked in a mental ward long before this happened. But if he had been, he would have called CAIR and would have become the new martyr to the "America hates Muslims" cause.
But since he wasn't, he got one free attack before we did something. If we treat terrorism like ordinary crime, every terrorist gets a free attack.
Well yes its all about a desperate attempt to deny a terrorist attack happened during Obama's watch but this goes beyond Obama and the left's moronic attempts to circle the wagons. This is a systemic problem in the military that started during Bush's watch. To me you can't pawn this off on Obama it goes way deeper than that and is a massive problem we should address asap.
Not that we will. But we should.
And when ballistic tests confirm that not all the dead and wounded were shot by Hasan's weapon he bought at Guns Galore, but probably one or more responders, this all just proves we need more people armed that could have contributed to that chaotic hellfire.
>>>
Why rely on ballistics when we can just rely on your amazing psychic powers!
Can you give me the power ball numbers? Who's going to win the superbowl?
I'm reminded by a similar rash of Christian inspired killings by two Irish-American terrorists who would yell In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti prior to dispatching their victims.
The only difference is the Christian inspired killings were fictional whereas the Muslim ones are all too real.
"The denial that this is terrorism are all about protecting obama from anyone stating the facts a terrorist attack, killing 13 US citizens, on US soil, at a supposedly secure US military base against US soldiers occurred during obama's watch."
And this is why you can't debate a Democrat. They're in such complete and utter denial that it's pointless to attempt to reason with them.
Obama is not protecting us. That is the lesson.
They can't argue a position on its merits. That's why they need Rules For Radicals. It allows them to argue from positions of bad faith.
So, the only way is to fight fire with fire. Fuck them. I'm no longer interested in helping Democrats come around to my side of an issue. I just want them done with.
I'm tired of seeing Americans lying the ground bleeding and dying because we let moronic Democrats run the fucking country preaching their PC bullshit while protecting terrorists.
Fuck that shit. Done with it.
Maybe all you see in this is a lesson about political correctness run amok. Fine, it's a perfectly valid line of inquiry.
But seeing it as problem of gun control is equally valid. And as relevant to the situation at hand. And yet, not discussed in these quarters.
And the real truth is... the guy who did the shooting is the guy to blame, for the shooting, and there may not be any great lessons to be had here. Is that not at least a strong possibility?
But seeing it as problem of gun control is equally valid. And as relevant to the situation at hand. And yet, not discussed in these quarters.
Lets assume a strict form of gun control for your argument. Any reason to think that a serving officer in the United States Army would be considered a high risk for applying for a gun permit?
There is certainly an argument for gun control but I don't think this is the case for it to be made.
Montaigne all those school shootings mentioned earlier happened in gun free zones. How much more gun control can you get than that?
Taking guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens is tempting but it does very little to protect people, it just creates victims.
In Europe, a little old lady is helpless if she's alone. Any decently sized man can do anything he wants to her. But give her a gun and suddenly the arithmetic totally changes.
Or as Pink Pistols says, "Armed Gays Don't Get Bashed."
(okay I am spamming the thread at this point and most aren't reading my crappy responses anyway so I swear I will stop for awhile)
most aren't reading my crappy responses anyway
Sez who?
vbspurs
but FFS, he's also an educated man,[!] a medical doctor, [!!] a shrink. [!!!] Plus, he speaks Arabic [!!!!] and is a Muslim, [!!!!!] and for public relations, we need that right now. [Well, that was a bad call, yes?]
Can anyone spell al-Zawahiri?
From CNN:
Born on June 19, 1951, al-Zawahiri grew up in an upper-class neighborhood in Cairo, Egypt, the son of a prominent physician and grandson of renowned scholars.
"He used to write poetry to his mother," said Mahfouz Azzam, al-Zawahiri's uncle, calling his nephew quiet, studious and deeply religious.
"He was known as a good Muslim, keen to pray at the mosque and to read and to think and to have his own positions."
As a 16-year-old medical student in the 1960s, al-Zawahiri became involved in the Islamic fundamentalist movement rolling through Egypt.
Authorities arrested and charged him with being part of a Muslim Brotherhood plot to overthrow President Gamal Abdel Nasser.
After Anwar Sadat's election as Egyptian president, al-Zawahiri worked to overthrow Sadat, said Dia'a Rashwan, a specialist in Islamic movements.
After Sadat made peace with Israel, members of Egyptian Islamic Jihad assassinated Sadat. Zawahiri was arrested shortly after in a security sweep of Islamic militants.
In a 1981 trial, as defendant No. 113, he was convicted on weapons charges, but not for being part of the assassination plot, and sentenced to three years in prison.
He spent three years in prison, where by his own and other accounts he was tortured severely.
Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri is Osama bin Laden's right hand man. Or IS Osama bin Laden, if one assumes OBL is dead.
"But seeing it as problem of gun control is equally valid. And as relevant to the situation at hand. And yet, not discussed in these quarters."
He may have had a C and C permit in Virginia. But that wasn't valid on Fort Hood. You can't take weapons onto the post. I dont' see how gun control, short of full fledged confiscation and prohibition, would have prevented this. Further, this guy, while crazy, had no criminal record or history of mental illness. He was a military officer and a doctor. He would have passed any reasonable background check. So, no I really don't see how this says anything about gun control.
"And the real truth is... the guy who did the shooting is the guy to blame, for the shooting, and there may not be any great lessons to be had here. Is that not at least a strong possibility?"
The truth is this guy was a narcissistic loser who latched onto radical Islam. He was then manipulated by radical Imams. And finally popped a cork and shot a bunch of people. That is really all there is to it.
The kind of gun control Montaigne wants is no guns. The fact that the base does not allow personal firearms or permit soldiers to carry their military weapons is not lost on him.
But he is right that the shooter is the one responsible for the killings. Others may be responsible for allowing Hasan to remain in the army, but who is to say he would not have shot someone else, somewhere else even if he had been discharged.
Sez who?
>>>
I think the same people telling Garage what's going to happen in the future.
Crap posted again!
Federal sources admitted that Hasan was so off their radar by that point that they hadn't even been aware of his gun purchases in Texas in August.
I know there is software that takes in seemingly unrelated information from various sources and spill out names with possible ties that w/o such software would be impossible to connect.
You would think the parameters of gun buyer and al qaeda ties emailer (I dont give a dam what his name is) would raise a dam "flag" (I dont care what color flag you want to make it) somewhere.
This is the crystal clearest sign yet that our super expensive security apparatus has reverted back to a Sept 10th mode.
Hi Vic. Its so nice to see you!
After refreshing my memory about the nearby Luby's Cafeteria massacre, I'm going with the loner-loser no-girlfriend theory. That's what gunman George Hennard (22 killed before he blew his brains out) had in common with Hasan. In Hennard's case, the cops who responded were just one minute away, so things happen fast.
I believe one big reason for this failure is the concentration of power in the FBI. Their jurisdiction is now so huge that they are less able to do that which only they can do. Most organizations can do lots of things poorly or a few things very well, but rarely both. The FBI is clearly in the former category and has been for some time.
MoMo
But seeing it as problem of gun control is equally valid.
Smoking crack again, mmm?
Don't even bother to defend that comment.
As for who is responsible? Yeah, the shooter.
But -- WHY (motive) is an important thing, both investigationally and legally. And politically.
Hasan was a radical violent Islamist.
Those on the left who are complaining that this is the fault of the military/George Bush/the "gun nuts"/etc. would have screamed bloody murder about injustice if the authorities had imprisoned or even questions poor Major Hasan about his Islamic-jihad, anti-American statements. It would be all-racist-rightwingers-hate-Muslims all the time. Remember Jose Padilla, aka Abdullah al-Muhajir or Muhajir Abdullah? Remember the shrieking and screaming about Our Civil Liberties, the Fascist Bushitler Administration Jailing Citizens Before They Committed Crimes, etc.? I do. Sure, he's still in jail, but the military and the FBI learned their lesson: treat suspected terrorists with the softest of kid gloves, and above all, don't ever do anything that will catch the attention of the blowhards on the left.
Sure, thirteen people who are now dead would still be alive, but that's all water under the bridge -- at least Hasan's civil liberties weren't threatened while he was going around in his US Army uniform, preaching jihad and praising our enemies. That's the important thing.
Make that Hasan IS a radical violent Islamist.
Oh yeah, and re MM's rantings about gun control: the man was in the military. Why shouldn't they have sold him guns?
Hopefully, Nidal Malik Hasan will be caught without health insurance one day, and then be sentenced to prison.
Look how relieved Ann was to put the blame back on Bush so she can go back to being an Obama worshiper.
JAL wrote:
Can anyone spell al-Zawahiri?
Exactly. And Che Guevara. Also Papa Doc Duvalier.
What these men had in common with Hasan was a total disregard for the sanctity of human life.
Now the libs will double-down for new gun confiscation.
After refreshing my memory about the nearby Luby's Cafeteria massacre, I'm going with the loner-loser no-girlfriend theory. That's what gunman George Hennard (22 killed before he blew his brains out) had in common with Hasan. In Hennard's case, the cops who responded were just one minute away, so things happen fast.
>>>
This is a little like blaming the 911 attacks on people with black hair. (those damn blondes and their fun depress them too much!)
"this all just proves we need more people armed that could have contributed to that chaotic hellfire. Tragedies like these could be avoided."
Amazing. The only people armed here were the shooter and law enforcement who arrived after the shooting started. What do you suppose the odds would be for the shooting not taking place in that room if there were other armed people in it?
The Major in the Army of Allah who did the shooting was mind controlled by the Imam whom taught him that god will only accept him if he kills infidels to protect other believers in the message of the prophet. That untrue strong hold in his mind pulled the trigger using Major Hassan's body. That was a result of very skillful work done by a spiritual leader. How about a Constitutional amendment outlawing Mohammed's religion, its prayer towers, and its Koran? We had an Anti-Mason Party in Pennsylvania once that did good work thru Thaddeus Stephens. Why not an Anti-Moslem Party? That would certainly expose who are their friends.
Approximately 60% of the agents in both the CIA and the FBI are liberal Democrats.
87% of statistics are made up.
"Look how relieved Ann was to put the blame back on Bush so she can go back to being an Obama worshiper."
Who do you have reading this too you? How do you come to that conclusion? Factually stating that Hasan had come to the attention of the feds back in December does in fact make it Bush's FBI.
I snatched that quote and linked it on my Twitter feed, AllenS.
Yeah. That's our govt getting really serious!
Can someone explain the Army's logic about harbouring a vociferous anti-American despite repeated attempts to leave it, please?
I’m not sure what their logic was, but psychiatrists can be hard to recruit and there has been a lot of emphasis on mental health lately for active duty and veterans. It may be as simple as that, sad to say. Obviously it’s not good for anyone’s mental health when the doctor starts shooting at you!
A little off topic, but still appropriate given this is the USMC birthday today:
What a nice birthday present to the United States Marine Corp on its birthday!
CHOSIN RESERVOIR NORTH KOREA 1950
Among our still fighting survivors,
many appear to be walking dead,
yet still combat capable.
Two thirds are wounded, yet they carry on.
All are suffering from frostbitten skin.
frozen ears, faces, toes, and fingers
are commonplace.
Some walk on frozen,
thus living on borrowed time.
Their faces are grotesque, dirty, unshaven.
gaunt with hunger from short rations.
All are bone eary from lack of sleep.
They have been under incessant attack
for three days and four nights.
Some of the wounded are so disabled,
they cannot move to generate body heat.
They freeze to death in horrible stiffness.
Equipment and vehicle wreckage
is everywhere
To add to the burden,
it is snowing again...
If low, heavy clouds persist,
There will be no air cover or support
to hold the enemy at bay...
as we move to break out!
Unlike Anita Dunn, I am not a fan of Chairman Mao. Neither are most Marines.
Dunn is Done.
Anita Dunn is leaving her post as White House communications director and returning to her PR firm, where presumably she will continue to look to Chairman Mao and Che Guevera for guidance and inspiration.
"The wheels on the bus go round and round . . . "
wv=capban: What restaurants should do to the louts in baseball caps.
Here is an example of how far the security pendulum has swung the other way.
How Great a Threat Were the Lackawanna Six?.
Did the FBI extrapolate from the Lackawanna Six that the danger of "home grown" terror was not as bad as they thought?
I would posit that reflecting on a possible over-reaction to a possible gathering danger is just as dangerous as not doing anything and just hope nothing happens.
Hoping nothing happens is our front line, best equipped, best trained defense.
former law student said...
a radical imam from Virginia who has been openly propagandizing for al Qaeda in Yemen and who had ties to several of the 9/11 hijackers...
I dont like the word "ties" here. If this iman were a member of al-Qaeda, why is he not behind bars? Or at least expelled from the country?
FLS, I think you are wrong about the imam but right in spirit about "ties". In the passage you quoted, it is meaningful about the Imam because he is connected to AQ as a recruiter. However the "ties" to the 9/11 hijackers is completely bogus at this stage.
THEY ATTENDED THE SAME MOSQUE!!!!!
BFD. 2,000 person Mosque, and two transient Muslims attended it for two weeks. I attended church with a famous Broadway star for a couple years, even sat in the same pew with him once. My "ties" to him? Nonexistent.
From what I remember, the movements of the hijackers were investigated down to the minute if the hapless FBI could - and people they talked to said the 9/11 enemy combatant team members were all "quiet, nice, kept to themselves". And made no effort to befriend Muslim strangers here or talk about themselves. They were on a military mission and "flying dark".
"Remember Jose Padilla...?"
Let's hope so, as one day Americans will recoil in horror at the travesty of justice that was perpetrated on an American citizen, under cover of fabricated charges under which Padilla was arrested and held incommunicado, in violation of his habeas corpus rights--but which were never brought against him in a court of law--(due to an utter bankruptcy of evidence). Oh, the government managed to get him, alright, and convict him on a vague porridge of charges, but no evidence has ever been presented to support the initial scary stories told about Padilla.
Hopefully, Nidal Malik Hasan will be caught without health insurance one day, and then be sentenced to prison.
I'm sure he'll be granted a religious exemption.
What do you suppose the odds would be for the shooting not taking place in that room if there were other armed people in it?.
I don't think any of these people that go postal care if anyone is armed or not. They're expecting to be shot dead in my opinion.
I don't think any of these people that go postal care if anyone is armed or not.
I would argue that technically Hasan did not go "postal". The shooting did take place at a military base, not a post office ;)
At Althouse we should strive for accuracy.
Hasan did not go "Postal". He went "Muslim".
Cedarford said:
BFD. 2,000 person Mosque, and two transient Muslims attended it for two weeks.
Don't dismiss the probabilty so lightly there C4. Out those 2,000, how many were like-minded killers in the sense that Hasan and the hijackers were? A few? All 2,000?
And using your analogy, you might have actually met that Broadway type had you had a common interest.
wv: motsomm I'm feeling a little bonmotsomm today. :)
"I don't think any of these people that go postal care if anyone is armed or not."
Yet strangely, they always do it in gun free zones. Hmmm?
Nobody ever pulls this at a gun range or a police station, or even a biker bar for that matter.
And using your analogy, you might have actually met that Broadway type had you had a common interest.
@Cedarford. On second thought, you do have a flair for drama at times.
I attended church with a famous Broadway star for a couple years, even sat in the same pew with him once. My "ties" to him? Nonexistent.
I agree with Cedarford. Myties are forbidden to radical Muslims. Unless anyone is prepared to testify they saw Hasan drinking myties at the topless bar he allegedly frequented.
Myties are difficult to make.. its not something readily available at a topless bar.
wv encythru
Yet strangely, they always do it in gun free zones. Hmmm?
Contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of Americans aren't walking around packing heat. Indeed, if as many people we're walking around armed as the gun control advocates would have you believe, most of these mass shooters would have been dropped by the time they squeezed of their second round.
"I don't think any of these people that go postal care if anyone is armed or not."
Yet strangely, they always do it in gun free zones. Hmmm?
Nobody ever pulls this at a gun range or a police station, or even a biker bar for that matter.
>>>>
The 100% rate of them happening in places where the potential targets are unarmed is what we call 'an inconvenient truth.'
wv: bledavu - bled have you? something you're likely to do if you rely on liberals to keep you safe.
If guns made us safer, we would be the safest country in the world. Which, we aren't, obviously.
And there you are again, Dark Eden.
;-)
Robert Cook said:
Let's hope so, as one day Americans will recoil in horror at the travesty of justice that was perpetrated on an American citizen, under cover of fabricated charges...
Hopefully one day the Robert Cooks of this nation will be seen like enemy sympathizers like Charles Lindberg came to be seen. Except in Cook's case he'll be an unknown. Either that or he'll be our re-education camp guard.
Considering all the shootings take place in gun free zones, gun safety laws don't keep us very safe either. If more regular citizens had an easier time carrying, there would be less shootings and less successful shootings.
I know that seems completely ass backwards insane to you but its very true.
This is a little like blaming the 911 attacks on people with black hair. (those damn blondes and their fun depress them too much!)
I had a (blond, blue eyed) ex who decided to get into some detailed political conversation with the muslim (iirc) cab driver that ended with him griping something at the both of us about how we didn’t know something or other because we were blond and blue eyed. I was a little flumoxed since my hair is brown and my eyes are green, but mentioning that didn’t make him back down on his point a bit.
And there you are again, Dark Eden.
;-)
>>>
I keep avoiding work. One of the benefits/dangers of running your own business.
"I don't think any of these people that go postal care if anyone is armed or not. They're expecting to be shot dead in my opinion."
Interesting. Could you cite a few examples of this kind of attack in a room of armed individuals?
I thought so.
MM;
Hasan the shooter is to blame for the Fort Hood shootings.
Just to be clear that we're on "the same page".
Would you also agree that Scott Roeder, admitted shooter of Dr. George Tiller is the one to blame?
I do not want to see civil rights trampled, but that does not mean we cannot protect ourselves. You can vigorously monitor and investigate those who are potential threats without throwing them into a dungeon. You can and should fire an Army Psychiartrist who starts saying offensive and bizzare statements and is clearly becoming unstable. Frankly firing Hasan might have prevented any crime happening--or he could have been monitored beyond that. Stop thinking like it is September 10, 2001. We can't risk that anymore.
This is the crystal clearest sign yet that our super expensive security apparatus has reverted back to a Sept 10th mode.
I think it's a clear sign that the software was written by the lowest bidder.
If guns made us safer, we would be the safest country in the world. Which, we aren't, obviously.
If gun control made us safer, then Chicago and Washington D.C. would be the safest cities in the country. Which, they aren't, obviously.
If guns made us safer, we would be the safest country in the world. Which, we aren't, obviously.
If every home had a gun we might be a little more like Switzerland sad to say.
Here's a photo of my favorite .45 that I like shooting at the range with my son: Link. I don't own one, but I just might one day.
wv: flunt
No comment other than that word came up and I wanted to flunt it.
"So, the only way is to fight fire with fire. Fuck them. I'm no longer interested in helping "Democrats come around to my side of an issue. I just want them done with.
I'm tired of seeing Americans lying the ground bleeding and dying because we let moronic Democrats run the fucking country preaching their PC bullshit while protecting terrorists.
Fuck that shit. Done with it."
Is Florida just venting, or should we be concerned that he just might hit his local Democratic Club tonight, with a weapon?
He's angry, likes guns, speaks in conspiratorial terms about massive groups out to get him. A loner? We can't be sure, but he spends quite a bit of time here telling us he's "done with it".
Surely Florida hasn't committed a crime yet, and he is entitled to his free speech. But what is OUR collective obligation? If he really did blow away some Democrats tonight, would we be guilty in some way?
If guns made us safer, we would be the safest country in the world.
The vast majority of Americans' guns are stored safely at home -- they don't help much when people are out and about.
But we are a violent nation. When I looked into it a while back, I found out that our rate of murders committed with hands and feet alone, matched most countries' totals.
"Surely Florida hasn't committed a crime yet, and he is entitled to his free speech. But what is OUR collective obligation? If he really did blow away some Democrats tonight, would we be guilty in some way?"
Just think of the hundreds of venting blog commenter shootings the MSM is desperately avoiding noticing for political reasons! Stop the madness and stop Florida before its too late!
wv: keybec - a quebecois key store?
But we are a violent nation. When I looked into it a while back, I found out that our rate of murders committed with hands and feet alone, matched most countries' totals.
I don't think that's fair, to say that Americans in general are a violent people. The vast majority of homicides are committed by gang members participating in gang activity. It is fair to say we have an inner-city gang problem, but your average non-gang-member American is no more prone to violence than folks anywhere else - maybe even less so, as our non-homicide violent crime rates should indicate.
The real underlying problems, unfortunately, touch on racial sensitivities that prevent anything real effective from being done.
I think it's a clear sign that the software was written by the lowest bidder.
I can only recall as if it was only yesterday how warm fuzzy and safe I felt when I heard Janet Napolitano was going to be the nations top security gman ;)
wv - hibla
@Penny Don't confuse Florida's rights under the 1st and 2nd amendments. :)
But we are a violent nation. When I looked into it a while back, I found out that our rate of murders committed with hands and feet alone, matched most countries' totals.
Like the guy Jose Padilla kicked to death? Sorry Cookie, another inconvenient truth.
"Let's hope so, as one day Americans will recoil in horror at the travesty of justice that was perpetrated on an American citizen"
Etc. etc. See? We'll never know how many people aren't dead today because the Fascist Regime of Chimpy McBushitler and Darth Rove Cheney didn't worry enough about what the Robert Cooks of this world think! Of course, there are those thirteen dead people who died because the Robert Cooks of this world finally had their way -- mustn't hurt Muslim feelings! Mustn't acknowledge we're at war because war baaaad -- must instead treat suspicious activity by suspected members of the enemy we don't have that we aren't fighting as law enforcement issues! Also conspiring to commit terrorism is just another aspect of free speech!
If he really did blow away some Democrats tonight, would we be guilty in some way?
I got this one. The answer is no, it would be that Democrat's fault because Democrats in general are for gun control.
BTW - Does this mean that the much maligned Patriot Act needs to be (oh my lord) strengthen?
Robert Cooke is really on his own level of derranged. Why let facts like how Padilla plead guilty and told the world in open court that he was a jihadist get in the way of a good, insane rant?
I got this one. The answer is no, it would be that Democrat's fault because Democrats in general are for gun control.
Don't you think it's important to find out *why* he's angry? Surely if he's so upset he must have some legitimate grievances! Clearly the United States has wronged him in some way during its normal course of evil greed-mongering; only a neocon jingoist like yourself would argue that America is perfect!
We'll never know how many people aren't dead today because the Fascist Regime of Chimpy McBushitler and Darth Rove Cheney didn't worry enough about what the Robert Cooks of this world think!.
There is a simple theory - that if they can do it someone else, they can do it to you too. You want Obama to have the power to call you an "enemy combatant", strip your habaes corpus, and lock you away for years without charges? I shudder at the thought.
Listened to the Obama speech at Ft. Hood.
Fine speech. Campaign grade.
Could have come out of the mouth of Reagan or Bush.
We'll see.
I will admitt I dont know much about military uniforms, except I have notice how General Casey used to wear a more luxurious regalia when he was Bush's man in Iraq.
The last few times I've seen him, in Ft Hood last week and today he is wearing the common camouflages.
Has Obama dress down the generals?
i think florida is a lefty troll.
There is a simple theory - that if they can do it someone else, they can do it to you too. You want Obama to have the power to call you an "enemy combatant", strip your habaes corpus, and lock you away for years without charges? I shudder at the thought.
>>>
Now that the Bush administration is over, can you point to any actual real world non mouthbreather truther fantasy that involves actual abuse of power?
80-90% of our murders are committed in unsaveable areas. That does not stop us from continuing to try to save these crime-ridden areas.
Philly has 250 murders a year and its population is 1.4 million but 85% of those murders are committed amidst a small sliver of its neghborhoods-I'd say 150,000 residents.
It's the illegal drug laws and illegal drug use which collide to form crime gangs generating a lotta crime. These then cause the high murder rates IMO.
Also, drug laws are good for the law enforcement, funeral, prison and legal industries
[Afterall, lawyers & judges need jobs too! They all can't teach at law schools and run a blog.]
I have those closing lines of Reagan's address after the Challenger explosion memorised until the day I die.
"The crew of the space shuttle Challenger honored us by the manner in which they lived their lives. We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for their journey and waved goodbye and slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God." THAT is a speech memorialising one's fellow Americans by a sitting President of the United States.
You should hear the pablum on rye Obama just intoned at Fort Hood.
Which commenter just called him creepy (re: his post-massacre shoutout)?
Yes, he's creepy. He reminds me of Wednesday Addams trying to smile.
Cheers,
Victoria
Althouse post dissing Obama memorial speech in 5, 4, 3, 2...
Heya Lem!
Cheers,
Victoria
There is no amount of creep-factor Obama can exude that isn't a problem for Monty. But I think it's a case of "sociopaths of a feather flock together" kind of thang.
Now that the Bush administration is over, can you point to any actual real world non mouthbreather truther fantasy that involves actual abuse of power?.
So trust government??? I'll remember that.
So trust government??? I'll remember that.
So garage - what are the Constitutional duties of the federal government? I thought protecting the American people from foreign and domestic enemies were one of them. You keep flogging the "conservatives/libertarians are anarchists" strawman. At least admit it.
So trust government??? I'll remember that.
>>>>
So I'm going to take that as a no?
D.K.
Padilla doesn't count as an abuse of power? I think it clearly does. DId you mean aside from that?
So how do Moslems see the American Army? As a target rich environment...enlist today.
So how do leftists see the Althouse Blog? As a target rich environment...start commenting today.
So how do leftists see the Althouse Blog? As a target rich environment...start commenting today.
Target rich yes but impossible to ambush and Alinsky tactics don't do well here for some reason.
wv: prowle
Alinsky tactics can't work well when the target knows about Alinsky tactics. Maybe Alinsky should have thought of that.
Then it's Bush's FBI too.
What the hell does that even mean? How on earth is Obama or Bush to blame for how the FBI follows up on individual investigations?
Here's what I think you meant (since you love to do this to everyone else):
Obama's Democrat Husseininess filters through the FBI, causing overly PC responses to potential terror investigations. This is to be expected.
But Bush was BADASS, STRONG LIKE BULL. Weak, pro-Muslim nonsense I can understand from a Muslimy Democrat, but from Bush, that's "Disgraceful."
It's disgraceful that the investigation failed to produce what it should have. It has NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to do with who was president when it started or ended.
Oh for fucks sake you can can the Alinksy nonsense.
Haven't been here for several days. Glad to see that vbspurs is back. Welcome back, Victoria.
The think to remember, is that as a member of the military, Hasan has less personal freedoms than the average civilian. Were he a civilian, his emails to Yemen and other rantings would have been disturbing, and might have prompted some monitoring, but would have been within the protections of the First Amendment.
As a serving military officer, he was engaging in unreported contacts with foreigners from scheduled countries, and making statements that could rightly be considered incitement to mutiny. The military chain of command would have been well within its rights to take administrative or even judicial action, but they failed to do so, and it is quite apparent that political correctness was at least a major factor in that failure.
RT @BUSTER "Haven't been here for several days. Glad to see that vbspurs is back. Welcome back, Victoria."
wv "oustre" Nooooo!
"There is a simple theory - that if they can do it someone else, they can do it to you too. You want Obama to have the power to call you an 'enemy combatant', strip your habaes corpus, and lock you away for years without charges? I shudder at the thought."
Why no, garage, and that's why (well, one of the myriad reasons) I don't engage in terrorist activity. Then again, since Obama wants us all to be forced to pay for government health care and I'm against paying the government for existing, I'm pretty sure that will eventually get me labeled as an enemy of the state. But freedom-loving folks like you are okay with that! A terrorist shooting down some citizens is pretty bad, but a citizen who doesn't want to pay for health care when she isn't using it is a dangerous subversive.
Lem -
I am sure the military / former military folks here can address the uniform thing more accurately.
But here goes anyway ;-)
There are rules on what is worn when and wear. (It is the Army, afterall.)
From what I can ascertain from son's clothing choices -- (what used to be called ) BDUs are worn for everyday work -- officers, non-coms, enlisted alike. (I don't know if they used the same acronym for the digi cams they now wear... the pattern has been digitalized.)
Then there is a more formal uniform (green). Not sure when that is worn. For formalk occasions for officers there are the dress blues.
To our recent family wedding, son wore dress blues, as father of the bride was in a tux.
In almost all pictures of him we have he is wearing camo, even as an officer.
Heya Lem!
Cheers,
Victoria
Yaaaay.. Vic has lifted her draconian Althouse sanctions.. ;)
Just in time Vic.
wv judju
Victoria--I called Obama creepy for his strange remarks at the Native American conference after the shootings. It was creepy.
But I thought today's speech was pretty good, though too long. It was a teleprompter speech, which he is good at.
Do I think Obama believes what he said today? Sure I do. Do I think his policies--as opposed to his words--will honor the service of soldiers by completing the mission successfully? Not so sure.
The only place Obama stumbled in his talk today was when talked about the end of the war in Iraq. He tripped over the word "successful" just before "end."
It came across as an unnatural insertion, not his natural statement.
I am still waiting for the word "victory" to spring form his mouth, in reference to something other than an election.
Why no, garage, and that's why (well, one of the myriad reasons) I don't engage in terrorist activity.
Doesn't matter. It's the government having the power to do so. At it's whim. For little more than a thought crime.
Then again, since Obama wants us all to be forced to pay for government health care and I'm against paying the government for existing, I'm pretty sure that will
No one is going to be forced to buy government health care. Unless you have a link to one of the drafts from congress where it states that.
The FBI's really gone down hill since Hoover died.
Pedantry can be an indication of certain developmental disorders
No one is going to be forced to buy government health care.
After the government becomes the largest employer in the land, whether or not they "force" anybody to do anything will be irrelevant.
wv - consio - socialist con
In the service you get a lot of uniforms for a lot of occasions. In the Navy at least we had three 'levels' of uniform.
First there were dungarees, rough clothing that you'd wear when you expected to be doing actual hard work in the field.
Then there was day to day uniforms, we called them Poly's since they're polyester which is a very odd fabric frankly. You wear this on the base, when you're manning a desk, when you are expected to do a job that involves talking and writing instead of hauling and lifting.
Then there's the dress uniforms. Very fancy and very uncomfortable and you only wear them when someone forces you to for a special occasion. Example the Navy dress uniform had like 18 buttons you had to undo before you could use the facilities. NO ONE wanted to wear those damn things.
There's a lot of reasons they could have been seen not wearing dress uniforms. Its probably innocuous but it could be some very subtle form of disrespect, like he's not worth putting on the good uniform. Hard to say. I know the service has a lot of in jokes and in messages to show when you are doing something under protest or whatever. Like the infamous middle finger Hillary picture.
No one is going to be forced to buy government health care. Unless you have a link to one of the drafts from congress where it states that.
No time to see if it stayed in, but there was the provision that if your insurance coverage ended, (maybe even didn't "met" the govt requirements) you could NOT buy a new policy from an insurance company. After a certain date (2015, IIRC) they were not going to be able to issue new policies.
No time now. Would that make any difference to you? If it did, you could look around and find it.
No time now. Would that make any difference to you? If it did, you could look around and find it.
It would make a difference. Never heard that one.
Obama is quoted in an interview just posted on Real Clear Politics. He was asked a general question on the philosophical line between terrorism and individual mayhem, and chose to answer thusly:
"Well, look, we -- we have seen, in the past, rampages of this sort. And in a country of 300 million people, there are going to be acts of violence that are inexplicable. Even within the extraordinary military that we have -- and I think everybody understands how outstanding the young men and women in uniform are under the most severe stress -- there are going to be instances in which an individual cracks. I think the questions that we're asking now and we don't have yet complete answers to is, is this an individual who's acting in this way or is it some larger set of actors? You know, what are the motivations? Those are all questions that I think we have to ask ourselves. Until we have these answers buttoned down, I'd rather not comment on it."
The officers who spoke at the Ft. Hood memorial emphasized the commitment to duty, the ability and duty of the soldier to overcome obstacles, presumably including stress.
David - did they also mention that their CIC is a back-stabbing doucebag? I really wonder right now how many servicemen in our military think "My god Barack really has our back, man!"
"Why no, garage, and that's why (well, one of the myriad reasons) I don't engage in terrorist activity."
Whether you do or don't engage terrorist or other criminal activity is irrelevant; if the government can arbitratily and unilaterally accuse you of being an "enemy combatant," and decides for its own reasons to do so, no legal protections apply to you and you can be, as Padilla was, held incommunicado for months and years at a time, subjected to torture and other coercive treatment, and essentially disappeared.
Anyone who is not appalled and terrified at what the government got away with in the Padilla case simply doesn't want to face the reality we have allowed to be created under a specious "national security" rationale.
Most of you didn't care when Bush did it because you liked Bush and assumed he would only abuse "bad guys." Well, once the guy you like has the power to violate your Constitutional rights, the guy you don't like assumes those same powers, and if you don't argue or fight against such unConstitutional powers in the hands of the guy you like, then you have only yourself to blame when the guy you don't like decides to wield those same powers.
THAT is a speech memorialising one's fellow Americans by a sitting President of the United States.
Do you think Obama could get Peggy Noonan to write speeches like that for him? The memorable lines were written by John Gillespie Magee, a pilot with the Royal Canadian Air Force in the Second World War, in his sonnet "High Flight." He died at the age of nineteen, during a training flight near Scopwick, England, while posted to a Spitfire squadron.
The "surly bonds of earth" lines Noonan put in Reagan's mouth are inscribed on Magee's tombstone.
FLS - so maybe Obama needs better speechwriters who can look to inspirational sources instead of coming off as a fucking creepy sociopath?
Re: the FBI
It's entirely possible Hasan fell off their "watch list" because there are many more threats out there that gave greater cause for concern.
That's encouraging. Not.
Do you think Obama could get Peggy Noonan to write speeches like that for him? The memorable lines were written by John Gillespie Magee, a pilot with the Royal Canadian Air Force in the Second World War, in his sonnet "High Flight." He died at the age of nineteen, during a training flight near Scopwick, England, while posted to a Spitfire squadron.
The "surly bonds of earth" lines Noonan put in Reagan's mouth are inscribed on Magee's tombstone.
>>>>
I am shocked and horrified that someone would give a speech lifting a line from someone else! Next you'll tell me that "Yes we can" was lifted from Cesar Chavez!
The "surly bonds of earth" lines Noonan put in Reagan's mouth are inscribed on Magee's tombstone.
Ok then.. try and trash this one too.
Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day
I am ok with guns.
I grew up with guns.
I hunted when I was young.
I am also a big fag.
I also don't like Muzzie extremists. Some sometimes think the gays are on the side of the muzzie extremist which we are not, really. We know what they would do to us in their countries, except the downlow Muzzies-they are hot.
"In almost all pictures of him we have he is wearing camo, even as an officer."
How can you tell he's there?
I saw Hilary Clinton on Charlie Rose last night.
No matter what you say about the bitch you can't deny she is smart.
My dad has a gun room with probably 50 guns in it. In the room are all the trophies and heads of animals he shot. I used to shoot clay pigeons when I was little. We actually have one of those old clay pigeon machines where you pull it and the pigeon flys into the hair. I used to play restaurant with the clay pigeons and pretend to serve fancy food on the pigeons.
Dark Eden,
Actually it was lifted from Bob the Builder.
"The "surly bonds of earth" lines Noonan put in Reagan's mouth are inscribed on Magee's tombstone."
-- fls
The oddest one of these was Teddy memorializing Bobby Kennedy, talking of living in "his mild and magnificent eye." That was from a poem of Browning's entitled "The Lost Leader," so it must have seemed apropos. But it was in actuality Browning's savage comment on the tergiversations of Wordsworth, who had turned conservative as he aged. (He actually wrote a sonnet sequence in praise of the death penalty, something very little stressed in courses on the Romantics.) The leader was lost because he chose to sink back with the slaves.
"Just for a handful of silver he left us,
Just for a riband to stick in his coat."
Nobody who'd actually read Browning would have used the line.
Pedantry is a manifestation of certain neurotic disorders.
Alex said...
David - did they also mention that their CIC is a back-stabbing doucebag? I really wonder right now how many servicemen in our military think "My god Barack really has our back, man!"
Well, Alex, the crowd applauded and seemed glad he was there. I kind of doubt the Base Commander at Fort Hood or the Chief of Staff of the Army would say (or feel) that the President is a back stabbing doucebag (or did you mean douchebag.)
Dubious of that "that was Bush's FBI comment." Real dubious.
There's nothing in the murder of Americans by a Muslim for Obama to get excited about, unlike the brute white cop disrespecting of Mister Gates.
After sitting in Wright's church for decades, H. has no vocabulary to describe even for himself what happened at Fort Hood. Whereas Wright had given him a ready and extensive vocabulary in the Crowley-Gates-Gate Cambridge phenomenon.
Whereof he has no vocabulary, he cannot speak.
The oddest one of these was Teddy memorializing Bobby Kennedy, talking of living in "his mild and magnificent eye." That was from a poem of Browning's entitled "The Lost Leader," so it must have seemed apropos.
This sort of thing is pretty common. Take the oft-quoted "Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them." The person to whom this said in Twelfth Night is pompous ass who is being made the butt of a nasty practical joke; these words are calculated to play on his vanity.
Or how Benjamin Franklin is often credited with inventing daylight saving time, when in fact it was a satire.
David - I can't believe a combat troop would ever applaud Hussein,unless forced to.
Is it possible Hasan fell off their watch radar about the same time Attorney General Eric Holder started going after the C.I.A.? A cover-your-ass agency might look at the Army and figure 'fuck 'em...they'll take the fall before us.'
@Montaigne Montaigne:
Althouse post dissing Obama memorial speech in 5, 4, 3, 2...
Care to revise and extend your remarks?
A Marine reservist armed with a tire iron beat and chased a man he thought was an Arab terrorist and even called 911 to say he was detaining the man, police said.
But the man he assaulted was actually a Greek Orthodox priest visiting from overseas who spoke limited English, police said.
Tampa police: Marine reservist attacked Greek priest he mistook for terrorist
How about we not jump to conclusions so much.
A L ...Good story. the Marine was over the top stupid to beat an orthodox priest. Those priests are nice and peaceful men and good christians who really do fight the moslems everday in a peaceful way.
"In almost all pictures of him we have he is wearing camo, even as an officer."
How can you tell he's there?
------------------
The whites of his eyes.
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