This will all go down in the annals of feminism, people. So think before you write. Andrew? [AND.]
IN THE COMMENTS: The first comment is from Maguro:
Let me be the first to say that I've never politically opposed anyone's vagina.
Ha ha. We start with the grammar.
AND: I see I'm getting Google traffic from the search "Sarah Palin Is NOT The Mother," which currently returns 311,000 hits. The top one is a new Kos diary, from ArcXIX:
Now, I've known liars in my life. Their single core problem is not with themselves, but those around them. If they're never called out on their twisting of truths and fabrications, they simply continue to make larger lies.Whew! That is ugly. Pictures are posted, with captions like: "Sarah's waistline never changed. Her wardrobe still remained tight and professional." Note the gratuitous insult to pregnant working women. They can't possibly dress in a professional manner. There are also enlarged photos of the 16-year-old daughter with comments about the shape of her abdomen. The whole world is invited to talk about that teenager's body.
Well, Sarah, I'm calling you a liar. And not even a good one. Trig Paxson Van Palin is not your son. He is your grandson. The sooner you come forward with this revelation to the public, the better.
Despicable, sexist trash. Shameful.
AND: ArcXIX displays a huge blowup of the picture of the 16-year-old and issues a faux-scientific opinion: "Bristol is pregnant in these pictures. She is not carrying belly fat, which grows outwardly wide, and does not become dome-shaped. That's because fat is generally evenly distributed around the abdomen and a fetus is not. Bristol's chest is sticking out, a normal body reaction when sucking in stomach muscles." Belly fat grows outwardly wide? Nonsense. People come in all different shapes, and female abdomens tend to protrude. If the girl was pregnant and inclined to hide it, why would she be wearing tight clothes and standing in proud half-profile? I apologize for asking that question, but I'm hoping to shake some sense into those who are pushing this story. They should be ashamed to stoop so low for the sake of politics. I doubt if the Obama campaign wants this kind of help, not that it's likely to be any help at all.
UPDATE: The first link in this post goes to a Metafilter thread that you can still read but that is deleted from the front page of Metafilter. The reason given for the deletion is: "you should probably keep this in the existing palin thread." Here is that first Palin discussion, which has 1420 comments as of Monday morning. Search on the page for the word "pregnant" to see how obsessed people have been about this. Since this thread was set up as a generic discussion of of Palin, it is a better gauge of the obsession. You can see how this issue popped up and seized the hive mind.
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«সবচেয়ে পুরাতন ‹পুরাতন 448 এর 401 – থেকে 448"True Vagina": The Adventures of Secret Oppo Research Agents in Deepest, Darkest Alaska.
more and more overboard in her unqualified support the least qualified VP candidate in history?
How is she less qualified than Edwards in 2004?
I'm seriously beginning to think Kos is history's most successful political sleeper agent. Look at his track record! If he can derail Obama in what should be a walk-away election, it will be his masterpiece.
They must have gotten to him when he was in the Army. Markos, you magnificent bastard! :)
Mrs. Blythe Flexner said...
The only women who are going after Palin and attacking her are ugly women who are threatened by Palin's good looks.
The ugly women are the ones who are angry about her.
So Michelle Obama has to be going crazy right now.
Creepy crawler guys seem to be leading the attack.
Sarah Palin reminds them of the girls they know they could never have.
It's not just the usual suspects. THIS MSNBC discussion calls her a "breeder"...
UWS and others perpetrating this rumor are slime. I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. They are also idiots (No i do not intend to raise the level of discourse here). Here is why:
Suppose that the rumor were true. A woman who makes the even more difficult choice of bringing up her daughter's baby and trying to protect the mother is despicable how? This wouldn't find empathy with millions of Americans why? This act of conviction and love would be disastrous for her how?
Not only are UWS' et als comments reprehensible, they do not even have any clear understanding of the implications. Politically it is a win-win for her. Personally it is further motivation to win and reform our political system while exposing the hypocrisy and fascism of the left.
I swear I'll be calmer in future posts. Probably.
Oh god it's on Digg too. So many ghouls just revelling in smearing a female VP and her 16 year old daughter about pregnancy based on nothing more than testimony of Internet Certified Exerts On What a Pregnant Woman Looks Like In Photos (read: dickheads). Truely vile.
The Kos kiddies are already comming up with their next smear: Palin shouldn't have flown home to Alaska to deliver Trig. You know, because it's not like she'd want to go home to be with her family.
You can just see their eagerness to go to work on sliming her motherhood. Yuck. I'm beginning to see how Hillary supporters feel.
You know what is so ultimately ironic about all of this?
All of this is about the Dems tearing each other apart. Each side blames the right, and it is really the two warring factions of the left - the Clintonistas vs the Obamamites stirring up the pot and blaming the right in order to destroy the other faction. The right never brought up race, or attached Muslim to Obama, or started the birth certificate/citizenship thing and I have to wonder how much of this Palin stuff is actually coming from Obama's camp. It has the same misogynist smell to it though, so it could be... it is plausible.
But I can tell you what - it isn't playing well in Peoria, so please keep it up.
While I'm thinking the rumor is crap (although there's a judgement call question concerning her flight) how is this...sexist?
I mean, was not the blog world afire when the Enquirer said John Edwards had an affair?
Crap, if anything is sexist, it's McCain selecting Palin for the va jay jay vote.
Because let's face it - she hadn't been vetted, they didn't know each other and it was a grab for female votes. What's worse, he passed over much more qualified Republican women.
Ofc Krupke - I think you have it right on, buddy!
I read an interview about him some time ago, and he admitted he doesn't really have a ideological side - he just likes stirring up the pot. He's making lots of money showcasing for America the Looney Left for all of America to see. It's a win win for him.
Yet another branch of the VRWC. I'm sure Karl Rove thought it up.
Citizen Pained: Let's assume for the sake of this argument that both rumors are equally true... are you going to draw a moral equivalence between a mother who is keeping a secret to protect her daughter with a man who is carrying on an affair and fathered a child with his mistress while his wife was battling cancer?
Again, not playing well in Peoria, but by all means keep it up. Keep showing the world the skewed values of the left.
Pierre, as through time, there are as yet other weapons, social weapons left untried, worth trying before the ones that shoot lead. We are trying some now.
I certainly agree that you are premature at the very least, and therefore your urgency makes you socially maladept about getting agreement from people.
And I guess I would in theory no more than slap their faces, rather than shoot them straight off. Or, Patrick O'Brian describes one insult as being greater - that of pulling one's nose, which, done thoroughly, draws both blood and snot.
But in that world, between men with any social pretense or claim to honor, the code duello applied. IOW pistols for two and coffee for one. You'd have to have waivers, and OSHA-regulated lead-free duelling halls or range time, but the code duello as a social experiment has promise even today.
On the bright side, if the challenge was not accepted, your opponent had proved to have no honor. No apologies for a blow.
Meanwhile things are not yet at the level of crisis. The frog is yet at room temperature or so, and it's a big pot to boil. Just don't be rabid, Pierre. Go on quietly stocking up on ammo. Always a good investment. (Or shall I just say "Trust in God and keep your powder dry?")
...The major problem here is one of decency and the concept of "soul," which I and others have used in describing the problem. Even a Vladimir Putin resents being called soulless. Would Putin:
find an unproved suspicion,
regard it as incontrovertible,
spread it with his name on it?
Never mind soul. It would never catch traction, it might backfire, it might cause blowback, and would make him look bad. He might use dupes but not own it. And surely not believe it himself.
He might do it if he had proof. Or anonymously, or both. But even so, unlikely.
Now that was for a generic rumor. Would even Vlad spread THIS kind of rumor?
...People looking for historical parallel might look to the election of Grover Cleveland vs. James G. Blaine, whose people spread a rumor that Cleveland had a natural son somewhere.
This rumor took flight when the mother, one Maria IIRC, came forward with documents. It took ground when Cleveland admitted it and came forward with his own documents showing he'd supported the child.
For leftists, note: There is no Republican President named James G. Blaine on the list of 43 - a number Obama probably knows better than 50, eh?
Empirically: attacks of this nature are counterproductive. Cleveland turned a liability into an advantage. Forget soul, lefties, look to the percentages! This rumor was TRUE! He didn't stonewall. He didn't look like a tethered goat on national TV. He stood up and dealt with it, and the GOP ate it later, cold: To "Ma, ma, where's my Pa?" they got served, "Gone to the White House, ha, ha, ha!"
What, Edwards? [crickets]
Meanwhile, I don't hear anything about Biden stomping her Cheney-stylez in a debate anymore, or their comparative merits generally. One thing we have now seen is that Palin can give a speech holding it in while her water is breaking, while Biden's biggest profile in courage is his hairplugs--
No, this is not fair, I understand that Biden underwent some terrible tragedies. His wife, son dying, what? So in fact if Biden is aware of such rumors, he would probably be indignant. I am prepared to admit that Biden is a human being.
If he slapped somebody's face, he'd go up ten points and drag Obama with him. ;o;
Meanwhile, you prove you don't know right from wrong with this.
Nichevo - that was very enjoyable - thank you!
I have one more observation to add about Biden and Palin:
It wasn't her that cried during her speech. And that did not go unnoticed.
http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/its-okay-joe-biden-cry-it-out-its-going-to-be-okay/
"peter hoh said...
Muggins, how could Obama denounce these rumors without airing the rumors?
I'm sure his staff is asking themselves that question."
I bet Peter is right. If there is one thing we have learned about Barack Obama is that he will throw anyone under the bus if he thinks that they are hurting him or embarrassing him.
And if there is a second thing we have learned about Barack Obama, it is that he is surrounded with and supported by lots of people who deserve to be thrown under the bus.
Heck, on Friday he threw his own bus under the bus, because of their 'hair-trigger' response to Palin.
Where are the tabloids when you ned them?
Damn--does no one have a life on the middle of labor day weekend? (oops, said labor--how appropriate for this thread).
Is this the state of the progressive mind? Even our liberal commenters deplore this. Moreover, did Gov Palin deliver this baby outside of a hospital? Does anyone think that, as Jim Hu noted, she had an amniocentsis and decided to keep the baby anyway?
This is a blogosphere storm, but it will seep into the MSM. Anything from the Kossites is flakey, and this does cross into despicable. If Barack Obama is a decent man, and I think he is, he needs to denounce this amoral and souless attack. Unfortunately for the Senator, this attack indirectly reflects on him, and he looks to be a hell of a decent father and husband--Lets see if he has the decency to denounce this in clear and unabiguous terms
Not fair to the Senator, but since its been made a political issue, this chicken has come home to roost. Were there ever a time to demonstrate moral leadership, this is it.
Why should Democrats change? "Nuts and sluts" That really turned Feminists off on Democrats, uh, no it didn't. Sexual harrassment in the WH? No. Credible allegations of rape? Attacking the victim was great sport. How is this any different than the party that Clintons created.
Not to mention the rhetoric used by Democrats to dehumanize conservatives.
Don't look for this to "go down in the annals of feminism" unless it is as a successful tactic.
waded through this entire thread--Now I need a very long sauna followed by a shower using a steel wool pad as a loofah. Sad to say that this is what American politics has devolved into. Souless, totally amoral, and without a shred of human decency. The McCain camp should jump on this, post some of the commentary and then interview Gov Palin's delivery team--we do understand that this birth did not happen on the tundra. And in refuting this ugly rumor, the McCain team will gain the support of any number of decent Americans
"[T]here is no faithfulness or kindness or knowledge of God in [your] land." You "are sowing the wind and you shall reap the whirlwind."
Hosea
My anecdotal evidence:
1. Personal reaction of recognition and pride;
2. Immigrant wife's reaction of recognition and pride;
3. Saturday night b-b-q in Grand Rapids: 6 women, aged 41-60+, teachers, nurses, wives of cops; 6 men, aged 51-60+, retired cops, lawyer, businessman.
4. Sunday morning after 8:00 a.m. Mass: families with and w/o kids; retirees, etc...
Conclusion: We know, understand and admire Sarah Palin; we are fired up about her, we (who haven't give a nickel to a politian since a buddy ran for county commission) are giving our money to her. Faithless, unkind, ungodly accusations (UWS I'm looking at you) are attacks on us because you are screwing with our sister, our friend...
"You shall reap the whirlwind."
First anyone that talks about any mother, a woman who has given birth to 1 or 12 children, and second, anyone that then talks trash about a teenage girl, who is the daughter of said mother is the lowest form of life on this planet.
Governor Palin has done more with her life than all of these trash talking fools, and I know that none of these fools will ever become as accomplished as Governor Palin.
People keep saying, "She's only 16 years old!" Isn't she 17?
That's really, really close to being a legal adult. And the distinction between 17 and 18 is an arbitrary legal convention.
Blogger John Althouse Cohen said...
People keep saying, "She's only 16 years old!" Isn't she 17?
That's really, really close to being a legal adult. And the distinction between 17 and 18 is an arbitrary legal convention.
...
Ah, but 15'll get you 20. She is fine, too. But her father has hooks and stuff, and a boat to get rid of the evidence. The crabs don't mind ;>
SRSLY are you jonesing on a little grrl?
SRSLY 2, what is the age of consent in AK?
SRSLY 3, wash both our minds out with soap.
Jac, Are you suggesting that people are being overprotective by saying she's too young to be talked about in this way, that she's old enough to be the subject of a discussion of this nature?
Who, aside from Andrew Sullivan, is promoting this rumor while using his or her real name?
These Palin prego comments remind me of the Clinton first term election mantra, 'You can't legislate morality, Mr. President.'
The prego comments are immoral in themselves, the leftist loonies living up to their self-proclaimed immoral preferences.
If there was a pre-natal diagnosis of Downs then it proves that the adult was the mother. Pregnant 16 year-olds do NOT get amnios. The miscarriage risk (anywhere from 1/100 - 1/10000 depending on who you ask) is vastly higher than the possibility of diagnosing a birth defect in a healthy teenager.
Blogger Peter V. Bella said...
This whole Palin thing will go down in the annals of feminism as its most embarrassing and darkeest hour if the barbs keep up.
The righties over the years did not even do to Clinton what has been done to this woman in just two days.
It just shows a lack of total morality, ethics, shame, and class.
Your last sentence sums up the Democratic party for the last 20 years or so.
I'm sure this is said somewhere in the 427 comments already posted, but it bears repeating: Down Syndrome is **extraordinarily rare** amongst teenage mothers. On the other hand, it is a known risk of pregnancies for women in their 40's. Really, that just about settles the issue and the disgusting individuals pushing this issue are only demonstrating their lack of knowledge or thought.
The relative incidence of Down Syndrome babies in teenage mothers doesn't rise to the level of proof.
I have a suspicion that something else will arrive to dispel the "Trig isn't Palin's baby" rumors.
There are Female Democrat Christians, Protestants, Catholics, Jews.
Just how do you think this is going to make them feel.
It will shave a couple more points off Obama's totals, and get some of them enraged enough to donate labor and money to the Republican cause.
One month ago the Republicans were dispirited. Quiescent. Those of you pushing this crap are energizing them. It is not just bad manners. It is bad politics.
I've seen the speeches by Palin since her selection. And I've seen C-Span re-runs of interviews. She's smart and on-message. I guess I can see why the non-center Democrats are worried.
Having gotten some sleep and some perspective, I'm seeing something about this vile story that I missed last night: the people spreading it are SCARED TO DEATH. I have never seen so many people so unhinged with terror, so quickly, by the mere arrival of a new candidate on the national scene. If not for the unforgivable harm being done to her children (Palin herself, plainly, can take it), I'd think it was fun to watch.
Folks,
The nutroots have finally come to their senses - they are beginning to back off these smears.
Lee Stranahan at HuffPo points out how the Kossacks responded to the story about Edwards affair which had a lot more legs to it and how they have shamelessly smeared Palin in this case.
They just cannot imagine a mother who does not abort her Down's syndrome child - what a "terrible" mother, she must be huh?
I have read here for YEARS and I'm registering just to comment on this.
Not only does Lem have it exactly right with:
Lem said...
I think the question itself is fair game -- if it turned out that Sarah was not Trig's mother, that means she is a liar who was willing to lie for political gain, pure and simple.
If Sarah can be that prescient I will definitely vote for her.
But whoever the original twit is who said that this was fair game because if it could be proven it would mean she lied for political gain is high or crazy or both.
I am a mother. IF you could prove that Trig is Palin's grandson and that she is raising him as her own ANY mother in the land -- any daughter too, and probably any son who wasn't born by fission -- would KNOW that she did it for one reason ONLY: to save her daughter from embarrassment and keep her free to achieve something with her own life.
This -- and let me put it right here that the chances of Trig being Palin's grandson given the evidence are less than of my suddenly acquiring the power to fly unaided -- means that if your smear succeded you'd only manage to a) destroy a sixteen year old. b) make Sarah a heroine to mothers everywhere.
IF this is your intent carry on. If you think it is a valid goal of a campaign to destroy a sixteen year old who is not running for anything while making her mother a paragon, carry on. If it's not your intent, then I must assume you're beyond blinkeredly stupid, insane or VERY young. My highschool age middle son says that you guys son like his classmates. If that's the case... you'll grow. If not, GROW UP ALREADY.
Unless, of course, your goal is to make Sarah quit the race to protect her daughter. Does she scare you that much? Who is afraid of strong women now?
As for the excitable one, there might be no hope and the only question is "Have you no decency, sir? At last have you no decency?"
P.
There were three men came out of the west
Their fortunes for to try,
And these three men made a solemn vow
John Barleycorn must die.
They've ploughed, they've sown, they've harrowed him in
Threw clods upon his head,
And these three men made a solemn vow
John Barleycorn was dead.
They let him lie for a very long time
Till the rains from Heaven did fall,
And little Sir John sprung up his head
And so amazed them all.
They've let him stand till Midsummer's day,
Till he looked both pale and wan.
And little Sir John's grown a long, long beard
And so become a man.
They've hired men with the scythes so sharp,
To cut him off at the knee,
They've rolled him and tied him by the waist,
Serving him most barbarously.
They've hired men with the sharp pitchforks,
Who pricked him through the heart
And the loader, he has served him worse than that,
For he's bound him to the cart.
They've wheeled him around and around a field,
Till they came unto a barn,
And there they made a solemn oath
On poor John Barleycorn
They've hired men with the crab-tree sticks,
To cut him skin from bone,
And the miller, he has served him worse than that,
For he's ground him between two stones.
And little Sir John and the nut brown bowl
And his brandy in the glass
And little Sir John and the nut brown bowl
Proved the strongest man at last
The huntsman, he can't hunt the fox
Nor so loudly to blow his horn,
And the tinker, he can't mend kettle nor pots
without a little barley corn
That's deep.
amba: I think Pierre is onto something. It feels like a civil war is brewing to me. The two sides in this culture war may already have passed the point where they are irreconcilable.
I'm with Pierre. Maybe not a civil war, but definately riots in the streets becuase they didn't get their way. The Left has become fascist, its just a matter of time before they try to enforce their will with force and violence. Che and Chavez are their heroes afterall.
One tactical suggestion to those who want to debunk this assertion by linking to pictures: Link to MSM and other non-political websites. You can't debunk a rumor spread on a partisan website by evidence offered on another partisan website.
are you going to draw a moral equivalence... with a man who is carrying on an affair and fathered a child with his mistress while his wife was battling cancer?
Hey, let's leave Gingrich out of this -- he never inseminated his mistress while his wife was battling cancer.
pierre has a point,
Manners were developed to prevent people from going at each other with axes over minor slights.
I don't see why stating that fact is equivalent to death threats. The veneer of civilization is thin. Once breeched war is easy.
Pierre is calling for civilization lest we get something else. He is right.
FLS: You really know that your 10:42 comment about Gingrich is a fact?
It seems as if the left is burning its political capital over a non-issue. This speaks to judgment and credibility. It spills over onto Obama's prospects, since Obama backers' dirty tricks shade Obama's reputation as well.
Ann, you have some KOS-TROLLS here who seem to have suffered brain damage.
Willys said...
"These Palin prego comments remind me of the Clinton first term election mantra, 'You can't legislate morality, Mr. President.'"
No, but as Prof. Graglia has pointed out, you can legislate conduct, and it the last analysis that comes to the same thing for most functional purposes.
Here's an interesting development: her daughter couldn't be the mother, because she's still 4 months pregnant.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13050.html
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This wire service article is suggestive but not conclusive. One alternative would have been a sexless courtship of wife no. 2 while he was married to cancer patient wife no. 1. While he could have met and married wife no. 2 after the divorce went through, they would have had a whirlwind courtship, because they married mere months after he dumped his wife in her hospital room.
His first marriage, to his former high school geometry teacher, Jackie Battley, ended in divorce in 1981. Although Gingrich has said he doesn't remember it, Battley has said Gingrich discussed divorce terms with her while she was recuperating in the hospital from cancer surgery.
Gingrich married Marianne months after the divorce.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258001,00.html
I'm just a bit curious. The Magazine HOLLYWOOD GOSSIP reported 0bama's profiles were found on the famous 40+ rich women seeking affairs site [ seeking40plus dot com ] last week and he was seeking his mature baby there now!
True colors will always shine through. Stop the attacks. Stop the Hate. Stop pretending that gender has anything to do with liberal agenda -- it's just politics of destruction and control. If OBama wins, hate speech carries the day in American politics. STOP OBAMA NOW.
I am not opposed to vagina's, political or other wise.
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