Detailed in the 7:51 update to this post.
UPDATE: One of my readers tried to defend me over there (at Crooks and Liars) and got instantly banned. Wow. That says a lot. Pathetic.
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145 comments:
Applaud if you want to restore Nicole Belle's will to live.
Nicole Belle resorting to totally dishonest sleazy character assassination,
Gasp !
how shocking,
truly, just shocking,
you'd never see lib fems resort to such perniciously sociopathic behavior in places like Mmmmmm, Madison, Wisconsin I'm sure.
And a lib Saxophone player lets her speak through him by letting it persist on his blog.
a new low.
John Amoto has disgraced liberal North Lights smoking Saxophone players everywhere by his tacit complicity.
I don't get the point of the link.
You see . . . the thing of it is . . . I can’t keep myself from . . . obsessing . . . about . . . that YouTube link . . . and . . . the topic of . . . microphone impedance . . . generally.
Call it a weakness.
Oh, dammit. I messed up the link.
Sorry to create a false puzzle.
Try it now.
Oh, dammit. I messed up the link.
Professor Althouse said dammit!!!
That means we all have to do a shot!!!
And remember . . . Jack Bauer doesn’t have time to correct his links!!!
That’s all for me.
Good night.
Sleep tight.
Don’t let the bedbugs bite.
It’s 10:00 p.m. and time for little Bissages everywhere to down three big shots of Nyquil to counteract all the methamphetamine they’ve been injecting into their common carotid arteries.
See you all in the morning!
Bleary eyed and skanky-tailed!!!
Okay, okay, it was really 10:13 . . .
But Jack Bauer doesn't have time to keep track of time!!!
Dammit!!!
Interesting blog you had us look at. The scary part of the web people have been warning me about.
They don't think of it as censorship when they ban a commenter who has inconvenient facts.
It's called "controlling the narrative." They learned all about it from a prof in Berkeley, which is ironically the birthplace of the Free Speech Movement.
Wow. First time I've ever been Temprolled.
Threw in my 2 cents. Now I feel rather icky for even contributing to the traffic stream. Maybe they'll ban me too! That'd be fun!
I hate hate hate the net phrasing "...wait for it..."
because it always signifies a weak snark ahead. It's high school hallway humor, to be followed by a hundred Heathers murmuring agreement, Good one, Nicole.
Nicole, some advice from someone far funnier than you:
"Wit has truth in it; wisecracking is simply calisthenics with words."
and
"I know that there are things that never have been funny, and never will be. And I know that ridicule may be a shield, but it is not a weapon."
Dorothy Parker
Are you finished with the LA trip?
Where's the Christopher?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gjBGlMqUbk
Lefty blogs love to 'disemvowel' commenters for varying too far from the party line, be it Iraq, climate change, or the One.
Along with profligate cursing, it's a real trademark of Progressive blogging!
The difference between the Althouse blog and the leftosphere: you're willing, as a last resort, to delete comments that are disagreeable - disagreeable, not comments that simply disagree - and uncivil. They're unwilling to let comments stand if they disagree. I wasn't the commenter who tried to defend you over there (it seems to me that when I get involved in such things, I get angry and it gets counterproducive), but I've had similar experience many times. With the exception of some of the leftie feminist blogs that have been so unpleasent to you (they sometimes allow dissenting voices, if one is very focussed and very carefully-written), they just don't tolerate dissent in Left Blogistan. With this in mind, I find it hilarious that they accuse you of being thin-skinned.
Althouse makes it all about her. That is more important than Obama's acceptance speech.
Wow. That says a lot. Pathetic.
With the exception of some of the leftie feminist blogs that have been so unpleasent to you (they sometimes allow dissenting voices, if one is very focussed and very carefully-written), they just don't tolerate dissent in Left Blogistan.
Jerilyn Merritt to put a name to it.
Doesn't seem like they're banning anyone just for disagreeing anymore, if they ever did.
Gotta admit, that was a chickenshit comment on her part.
But, for the record, the GOP propaganda about the stage being the Acropolis-meets-Stonehenge also turned out to be false. It was a good stage, and the backdrop when the camera focused in on Obama worked well aesthetically. No chickens being sacrificed to Zeus on that stage.
Gotta admit, that was a chickenshit comment on her part.
But, for the record, the GOP propaganda about the stage being the Acropolis-meets-Stonehenge also turned out to be false. It was a good stage, and the backdrop when the camera focused in on Obama worked well aesthetically. No chickens being sacrificed to Zeus on that stage.
"Blue Man said...Althouse makes it all about her. That is more important than Obama's acceptance speech."
No, I did that during Al Gore's speech. Was I supposed to listen to that too? I've seen the movie.
Well, that comment was so nice I said it twice.
Wow. That says a lot. Pathetic.
Because in some people's world, you can't defend yourself when you've just been insulted.
Like after 9/11, you should take it, because you deserve it.
Disgusting. GO ANN!
So then what's the definition of uncivil, Simon? Your indulging in murder/death fantasies of the commenter "Harvard" or his making Althouse feel like a little person by calling her inane/unscholarly and unimportant - before she deleted his comments?
Think about this whole episode in the context of that.
Sometimes the idea of respect gets tied up in the concept of paying homage to someone's ego. Actually, this is a very easy thing to do. And tonight just may prove that.
A troll is different from a person engaging in legitimate debate. Don't act like you don't know the difference.
Does anybody here know how to operate a computer?
I this a gay site? Between the men and women's comments I'd lay odds at least 75% of the people who post here are gay.
Personally, being a liberal, I hope so.
But why don't the people here admit who they are?
Seems dishonest.
By the way, did anybody here notice how the backdrop didn't look at all like what Queen Althouse and her minions have described?
Well Simon, at least you're being honest. But since Professor Althouse obviously believes you're capable of legitimate debate (apparently I must not be), and not just being her pet (which is different from a troll), perhaps we could debate what makes referring to someone's publication record a "smear"? I didn't research that topic, but I notice that it wasn't refuted when "Harvard" noted absences in someone's publication record. Is this what was assumed to be "vicious language" or a "smear"? If I'm ignorant as to why that should be the case, the civil thing to do would be to enlighten me as to why. Someone mentioned a willingness to be corrected...
Hey, bro, nice to see you. I see they let you out of Atascadero.
That nice psychologist type treating you well?
Whoo boy! They're double teaming it tonight!
And a willingness to be corrected depends on someone else being willing to "correct".
The only other thing he said was that there was a lot of attention from a commentariat that skews right-wing here. Was that also a "smear"? Please advise.
Hey, montana, still full of shit?
Blah blah blah blah blah.
You are some piece of work.
What a bad vibe.
Ann, all the best to you.
My fellow Althouse commenters, thanks for being here tonight -- I needed you more than you can know.
Yeah, a little emotional perhaps, but I'm being extremely honest.
Thanks, guys!
Victoria
Hello. I just got in from Amsterdam. Seems my American cousins are up to their old tricks.
The LA troll central is up an running.
I'm going to assume that this isn't going to go much further. Lucyoldson is a commenter to be proud of, understandably, but not may answers coming out of her! Anyway, you can bash an alleged unwillingness to tolerate dissent elsewhere. But I'm not sure of what to make of an unwillingness to even entertain an honest question - assuming that's what's occurring.
No offense intended.
If the questions offend you, Simon - or anyone else, I apologize. I'm just not sure I understand why they should. Or why anyone would assume that they should.
Man, I thought Lucky wouldn't remember a thing, what with all those drugs they game him in the mental hospital and all.
What is all that shit you're writing, montana?
I've been to montana once. Tried to get into the dental floss business there. You should look into it.
Just remember, Obama is totally for the bill of rights and ensuring people can fully practice their civil rights. (Yes, it's a private site, but Obama is suing to stop the Ayers video. So who's trampling on freedom of speech here?)
Man! They called out the dogs tonight!
You know, the election's coming up, and those crazies in LA think they're hot shit messing up this blog.
Hey, trolltards! Try this shit over at LGF or some other hard right deal, and see how far you get.
What time does Althouse go to sleep?
Does she sleep?
--With one eye open, I imagine.
Hi Christopher !
I'm starting to really love the local NOLA blogosphere, which is mostly left-progressive but also a wide-open range for all and sundry. Comments threads are full of disagreement, but it's good natured, and many of the folks on opposing sides know and like each other.
I think I mentioned earlier that many of those bloggers lodged angry comments at Kos over the wishful thinking for a hurricane to blow over New Orleans because it would inconvenience the GOP convention -- we're not afraid of internal fights here. I would be appalled if their Kos comments were deleted or the commenters banned, and I am dismayed by that being the case at Crooks and Liars. Shame on them. I've found some of Nicole Belle's posts poorly argued and biased, and posted as much there. I wasn't banned or deleted for doing so, and that's how it ought to be.
But I also don't have much admiration for Ann's thread on that so-called Greek temple. Ann, your "cruel neutrality" doesn't get you off the hook for accountability. If you're going to parrot every nasty attack the right makes on Obama and offer no more than a "hey, maybe it's true, maybe it's not" disclaimer, then you ought not to be surprised when some of us call foul on that. The Greek Temple thing was crap, you bought into it, your commenters had a lot of fun making mockery of Obama based on it, and then it turned out, surprise, surprise, to be horseshit.
If you were likewise posting complete bullshit about McCain, I'd buy the cruel neutrality line. But you're not. You're waiting for something perfectly witty and just so. Your credibility is shaky here.
Yeah! The whole Lucky family has moved in here.
We've got so many fucking Luckys it'll make your head spin.
Which one are YOU going to believe?
And then there's Cousin Bob out in Cabezon.
Cousin Bob's REAL crazy! Heh!
Oooh! I see Maxine's back. Hey, Maxine, Bob's got the hots for you. He always stops in West LA after a trip to San Berdoo to score some shards. Althouse may sleep, but Bob NEVER sleeps, if you get my drift.
I this a gay site?
Watsa matta Lucy Huffpo get too boring for you?
What a hoot! What an asshole!
Hey, Luckys! There's someone who's like making some sense here now, so maybe you should, like, chill out.
Sorry, Beth. You seem like a normal person. Maybe you and Althouse can have a normal conversation if we all, like go away.
Beth,
Nice dogs, but not as nice as mine :)
Ann, your "cruel neutrality" doesn't get you off the hook for accountability. If you're going to parrot every nasty attack the right makes on Obama and offer no more than a "hey, maybe it's true, maybe it's not" disclaimer, then you ought not to be surprised when some of us call foul on that.
Oh please spare us. The constant complaining and cries for justice. Obama is such a pussy. He can't take anything.
Wow, Sloan. You've withered me with cold logic and keen analysis! As usual.
lawgiver, what a charming pup!
You think your dogs are cute... try MINE!
Egads- looks like the revenge of Titus around here or something. What a mess!
AA: I can't get that Crooks and Liars link to load. I missed the whole thing.
Palladian, that was just completely unfair. That's totally Cute Overload. I'm in a diabetic coma now. My gosh, I want one of those!
Cute pup Palladian. How big will it get? Pickles is about 11 pounds.
I used to disdain people who treated their pets like their children and now I are one.
So, wait this is the post Ann wrote about the Greek temple:
Reuters reports:
The stage, similar to structures used for rock concerts, has been set up at the 50-yard-line, the midpoint of Invesco Field, the stadium where the Denver Broncos' National Football League team plays.
Some 80,000 supporters will see Obama appear from between plywood columns painted off-white, reminiscent of Washington's Capitol building or even the White House, to accept the party's nomination for president.
So is this stage set going to seem like a Greek temple, with Obama as some phony god — from somewhere in Europe — or is it going remind us of the federal government — with Obama looking simply presidential? It's makes a big difference, and you never know what these rock concert type structures are going to look like until you see them in action.
Please tell me what is wrong with writing this, given the information provided?
Because ladies and gentlemen, if all this this vitriol towards a blogger was spewed FOR A PODIUM DESIGN, what on earth are we going to get for 4-8 years of an entire Obama presidency?
This is disgraceful. It's the flip side of Bush Derangement Syndrome.
It's OMA.
Obama Messiah Adulation.
Thank God to high heaven I am not one of these Kool-Aid drinkers.
Cheers,
Victoria
I just answered my own question.
Retaliation, intimidation, and character assassination -- again.
Heads up, Ann.
Zero, to answer your question, I'm going to take down the post you referenced as well as yours, since you quoted it in complaining about it.
I'll quote part of what zerovoice said...
"AA - I agree that Nicole Belle's attack was unfair (assuming you quoted it correctly, as I do) and that her decision not to "dignify" you with a link does suggest the possibility of an attempt to deceive (albeit a ham-handed one as presumably most readers know how to get to your site).
"Although I think it might have been a better tactical choice for you to spend more time live-blogging Gore's speech and less time attacking Nicole Belle, I certainly understand why you are chose the course you did."
Sorry, Ann, I hadn't seen your response when I posted.
Sorry, Revenant. You quoted too. I agree with you that the post I deleted was an expression of feeling and not something that would be acted on, I still think it isn't good to have it up there. It doesn't need to be there, and I think Simon will probably agree with me that it should be taken down.
If you're going to parrot every nasty attack the right makes on Obama and offer no more than a "hey, maybe it's true, maybe it's not" disclaimer
Reuters is "the right"? When the hell did that happen? Was it before or after they declared that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"?
Reuters -- a left-leaning wire service -- wrote a story claiming the set would look like a miniature Greek temple. ABC News -- a left-leaning news service -- printed the story, and Ann quoted it. At what point did that consist of "parroting a nasty attack from the right"?
I think you owe Ann an apology.
Beth: sorry about the sugar overdose! :)
Lawgiver: she is a Boston Terrier and will probably get to be no heavier than 18-20 pounds.
Revenant, I don't think I do. That "Greek Temple" thing went viral from Reuters once it landed on Drudge, and from there to most of the rightwing blogs. Ann's post was just one of the many, hence my calling it parroting.
Much of the Obama coverage has been negative, even from what you call leftwing, or MSM, media. Ann uncritically repeats this story, but calls bias on the media for their treatment of McCain with regularity. I don't apologize for finding her credibility lacking in this regard.
No more references to that. Get it?
Beth, it's wrong to say I was parroting or taking any cues. I was picking up a story from Reuters and giving my original opinion. The Greek temple description was in Reuters, not some right-wing blog meme.
AA - Would you mind explaining why we are not allowed to refer to the fact that Event Series X happened or to inquire about your response to it?
I mean, the guy is seriously deranged. Why do you keep him around?
Ann, I'll take your word for it that you got it from Reuters, not Drudge. But it did become a right-wing blog meme, and your thread was part of that zeitgeist. I look forward to some equally offtrack, cruelly neutral mocking of McCain on your blog. I'm hoping for a pony for Christmas, too.
Don't scoff me for my naive and hopeful attitude -- Gustav appears to be tracking west of us so anything is possible!
Ann, are you usually up this late? I was surprised to see a comment from you after 1 a.m.
TY's post suggests that Simon may be permitted to continue posting here despite Event Series X because of his popularity with other posters. Is that correct?
Trooper, Simon's an excitable boy but I can't imagine Ann doesn't love him for it. I do, even though we disagree about 90 percent of the time.
Trooper, she might want to keep an eye on the projections. I think Baton Rouge might end up closer to the center of things than we are. Nothing's clear until it actually enters the Gulf, sometime late Friday or early Saturday. I've changed from expecting to evacuate to getting ready to spend a day or two without power while places west of us get pounded.
That bum Shockey didn't played a single down in preseason. I am starting to think we got taken by some sort of Yankee fast one, that the Giants knew his leg was not healing and now we've wasted a 2nd round pick. No big loss, though. We have receivers to spare, but a tight end would be useful (now there's something we might all agree on.)
zerovoice, yes, you understand that correctly. Get over it.
Where I come from, events like Series X, even if phrased as "hopes" and even if supposedly meant as "jokes," are taken seriously. I'm actually rather surprised that AA apparently doesn't take them very seriously. I seriously wonder if she is exposing herself to liability risk here, especially if Simon acts in a manner consistent with Event Series X.
Beth, there have been countless opportunities to mock McCain over the past few months, and Ann hasn't bothered to post on any of them because "Obama is more interesting" to her. She can't risk mocking McCain because it will offend 95% of her commenters. The best you'll get is maybe a post mocking someone else who is mocking McCain.
If you want someone who will mock McCain, and Obama, visit my blog!
Jesus, what a drama queen. He used a figure of speech. Your hide is safe. Get a life!
She can't risk mocking McCain because it will offend 95% of her commenters.
Yes, Ann's great strength is a sense of audience. I sometimes think this blog is one long act of performance art -- I don't mean that as criticism. It's brilliant, actually.
I'll visit your blog, Zachary. Thanks for the invite.
That "Greek Temple" thing went viral from Reuters once it landed on Drudge, and from there to most of the rightwing blogs. Ann's post was just one of the many, hence my calling it parroting.
Even if Ann got it from a right-wing blog (which she did not), you've zero basis for calling it an "attack from the right". It's right there in the Reuters article: "miniature Greek Temple". No smear, no right-wing spin, no right wing propaganda. Just pure, run-of-the-mill bad journalism from Reuters. Just because a bunch of conservative blogs repeated a news story from a left-wing source doesn't automagically transform it into "an attack from the right", especially considering that Ann expressed more skepticism than the original Reuters story itself did.
Besides which, you claimed Ann "parrots" every attack the right makes on Obama. That's not even remotely true and you know it; Ann's posts completely ignore the overwhelming majority of right-wing anti-Obama memes, although most of them do show up in the comments eventually. To give one obvious example, Ann has stated that she doesn't think Obama's past association with Ayers is a big deal and has faulted Obama only for bringing it up himself in an ad. Which "right-winger" is she "parroting" there -- Joe Biden?
Much of the Obama coverage has been negative, even from what you call leftwing, or MSM, media.
In the sense that "much" of the American electorate thinks Bush has done an awesome job, sure. In the sense that you're trying to imply that the coverage of Obama has been *mostly* negative, I can only assume you're confused as to who Obama is. The old white guy is *McCain*; Obama's the younger black guy news anchors have been wanking themselves raw over since January.
There's nothing for me to get over, as I'm not the target of Simon's lame Internet-tough-guy act.
I'm simply interested in AA's views of (a) why it is OK to continually do X while it is not OK to mention X specifically, and (b) her assessment, if any, of the liability risk she is incurring.
Where I come from, events like Series X, even if phrased as "hopes" and even if supposedly meant as "jokes," are taken seriously.
Spare us the bullshit, Zero. You know you're lying, we know you're lying, Ann knows you're lying... give it up, already. Nobody threatened you; nobody fluent in English would have felt threatened. Grow up or fuck off already.
Trooper, I feel good about the city and state preparations this time. I'll have to take a ride through the Quarter tomorrow and get a look at things there. I'm glad she won't be sleeping in her store!
I had a Hanson's snoball today (nectar cream, with ice cream in the middle) and spent a few minutes chatting with an old guy pushing a basket full of junk down the street while I enjoyed my wonderful icey treat. I don't think he was homeless, just one of those old fellows who make their way by doing little odd jobs around the neighborhood. He told me he's keeping up with the storm plans by checking his little cell phone for news (he proudly displayed that to me, I guess to let me know he wasn't a bum) and watching the TV at the laundromat and the Lion's Club (he likes to play a little pool and have a soda there). Anyway, he knows all about where to go to catch the bus if we have to evacuate. So apparently the word is out on the street and plans are working. He's exactly the kind of person who ended up at the Dome last time, so this is a good sign.
I haven't had a chance to go online or read a paper for the last few days. Someone told me that Obama picked Joe Biden as Vice President. That can't be right can it?
I mean of all the people in the world he had to pick that guy? What Mike Barnicle wasn't avialable?
"She can't risk mocking McCain because it will offend 95% of her commenters."
Yes, Ann's great strength is a sense of audience.
A sense apparently not shared by the local Obama supporters. Most of the Republican-leaning posters here don't actually like McCain at all; furthermore, most of us expect Ann will vote against him.
I read the Althouse blog because I like her detached and occasionally artsy take on things, not because I expect her to agree with me. She quite often doesn't.
I heard that McCain is picking some broad from Alaska. Now I know that the show is canceled but that Anne Heche does seem a little crazy.
Although Johnnie does have a thing for crazy blondes who are a few sandwiches short of a pinic.
Someone told me that Obama picked Joe Biden as Vice President. That can't be right can it? I mean of all the people in the world he had to pick that guy?
Biden is one of the more credible Democrats on foreign-policy issues, particularly since they threw Lieberman under the bus. He helps balance out Obama's habit of responding to Russian invasions by calling on "both sides" to stop the violence.
Oops. Make that Hansen's.
"Spare us the bullshit, Zero. You know you're lying, we know you're lying, Ann knows you're lying... give it up, already. Nobody threatened you; nobody fluent in English would have felt threatened. Grow up or fuck off already."
First of all, you are violating AA's rule against referring to Event X specifically. It will be interesting to see how AA responds to this situation.
Second, I never asserted that I felt threatened. Unless you wish to embarrass yourself further, read and understand what you are talking about. Also, please refrain from using childish and vulgar terms in addressing me. I don't call your posts "bullshit" or tell you to "fuck off." Please return the courtesy.
Revanant, I would find it hard to place you in a category, and I never think of you as conservative, particularly. At least not as a social conservative.
But Ann's commenters, even if they're not as gushy about McCain as, say, Victoria, is, are still on board. It's more that the Obama mocking sells here, not that McCain is sacrosanct. But if you do mock him here, expect to be reminded, and damned quickly, that he was a POW for five years, where he had no house!
So, I stand by my assessment: there's no cruel neutrality. Ann has a finely honed sense of what keeps the blog rolling.
Obviously there are more facets to her, and to the blog: otherwise, why would I be here?
"He helps balance out Obama's habit of responding to Russian invasions by calling on "both sides" to stop the violence."
What is your proposed response to this situation, revenant?
Dude Biden isn't credible on anything up to and including his haircut. The man has cheated and plagerized on everything from the SAT's to his last pap smear. He make Pinnochio look like Honest Abe. I mean no offense, but can't they come up with someone else?
Hey, please know I didn't mean to threadjack. I just couldn't believe this Biden thing, but what are you gonna do. Let's go back to talking about reality.
Do you think Santa is gonna use a Prius this year? I know he want's to go green.
Ann's posts completely ignore the overwhelming majority of right-wing anti-Obama memes, although most of them do show up in the comments eventually.
That's exactly in line with my view of her blog as performance art. Her comments are aimed at sparking a response in the comments. I thought her "maybe he's a god, maybe he's looking presidential" disclaimer was weak. She knew which way the thread comments would tack. That's the point -- she's all about her audience. Again, I think it's brilliant.
If the media mentions Obama more than McCain, it doesn't mean they're fawning over him, that the references aren't negative.
What is your proposed response to this situation, revenant?
I would start by not requesting, as Obama did, that the *invaded* country stop being so violent.
If you mean "how would I resolve the situation", I don't think there's anything the United States can do to resolve it. We're not going to pick a fight with another nuclear power and nobody in the world cares enough about Georgia for an anti-Russian sanctions regime to work. But a good, solid condemnation of Russian imperialism wouldn't hurt any.
Bad Russia, bad boy. Don't go diddly on the carpet.
Where's my newspaper?
The man has cheated and plagerized on everything from the SAT's to his last pap smear. He make Pinnochio look like Honest Abe.
We're talking about foreign policy, here. Lying and cheating are the bread and butter of international diplomacy. :)
Rev, I am sorry man but I can never take anyone serious who had hair plugs. I mean really? Are you kidding me or what?
Beth, the study in question surveyed a period of time where McCain had the nomination sewn up (and thus wasn't being much talked about) and Clinton and Obama were still at each other's throats. Given that there are plenty of Clinton toadies in the MSM it is hardly surprising that Obama had to endure a certain amount of negative coverage from Hillary supporters during that time, although there was still an embarrassing amount of fawning.
Since he wrapped up the nomination, though, there hasn't been a significant negative story about him in the MSM. They dropped the story of his decades-long association with loony racists like a hot potato once Hillary was out of the race, for example.
LOL, Beth -- the ones reminding us about McCain's POW tenure are the garage mahal types, doing it ironically, or whatever.
McCain ain't all that, but he's a lot more than Obama. I've lived in AZ for more than 14 years and never once have I voted for McCain. I find it funny that I may actually do so for the first time this November. I haven't decided yet whether I'll even cast a vote for the president.
I think the content of Ann's blog reflects the ineptitude of the Obama campaign. McCain's people are putting out all sorts of on-target ads, toga recommendations, what have you -- stuff that's funny and fun to talk about, as well as being substantive. The stuff that Obama puts out is boring.
What I really want to see is the stuff Kurtz is digging up on Obama, Ayers, and the Chicago Annenburg Challenge coming to light in a big way. The CAC is really the only executive experience that Obama has ever had, and all the evidence points to millions squandered with nothing to show for it. Obama's camp sent out an "action memo" to try and beat Kurtz off the air. Ann blogged their attempt to keep the Ayers' ad off the air, which was bad enough -- but now we know it wasn't a one-off, with how they've responded to Kurtz.
I said he was one of the more credible Democrats. I didn't say that he should be taken seriously. :)
the ones reminding us about McCain's POW tenure are the garage mahal types, doing it ironically, or whatever.
The only time I remember seeing it mentioned seriously in his defense here was as an explanation for his behavior during the 70s. The much more common response is something along the lines of "yes, McCain stinks on that issue but Obama is worse".
A credible democrat is kinda like a virginal member of the Lohan family. I mean I think they must exist somewhere but what's the big deal? No one at the party is going to pay attention to them anyway.
Joan, I expect we'll see what comes out of the Ayers' thing, whether it's from Kurtz or someone else. Why are you surprised they finally got done with the Rev. Wright? What's new to come out of that? You've heard of beating a dead horse, surely.
As for the POW thing, I heard it not from garage mahal but from almost the entire conservative contingent here, anytime I made even the slightest reference to honorable Senator McCain's cheating on his wife and marrying the rich mistress. Apparently, you need a brand new wife if you've been a POW. And it's okay to pick one out while you're still married to the first one. I know, I know! I shouldn't be so judgemental.
Just a thought, but I bet the same exact commenters had a hey-day with that same meme with John Kerry. Suddenly, being a kept man isn't as funny as it was four years ago. Why? Because McCain was a POW, I'm guessing. Anyway, Joan, pay attention. It's not the left playing the POW card. It's McCain. Pretty much every day.
A credible democrat is kinda like a virginal member of the Lohan family.
Dang, dude. I can't stand the Democratic Party but that's just harsh. Lindsey's been ridden by more people than Space Mountain.
You've heard of beating a dead horse, surely.
I haven't heard a thing about Black Liberation Theology from the media.
That's pretty interesting stuff.
Well her sister Ali is about 14 and just had breast enhancements on the family reality show. Now if Althouse was on the ball, we would have a bunch of threads on that instead of this political bullshit.
And how the hell was the kid named Ali anyway? Is she a Muslin too?
They didn't even have the decency to make it her middle name.
But look at this way, with a Muslin name and ridiculous plastic surgery she combines the best part of the Democratic Ticket. And she's a girl. She can run for President in 2036 against Paris Hilton. That's hot!
Why are you surprised they finally got done with the Rev. Wright?
I didn't say I was surprised. I expected them to drop the story. He's a Democrat, after all. Compare the front-page smear piece on John McCain's apocryphal "relationship" with a lobbyist a decade ago to the utter failure to report VP contender John Edwards getting caught in a motel with his mistress. That's how this stuff goes.
What's new to come out of that?
Well, a short list of questions Barack Obama never answered:
(1): Why he attended the church
(2): How he reconciled the church's black liberation theology, with its neo-Marxist roots and overt racism, with his purported belief in "getting beyond race".
(3): Why Jeremiah Wright was invited to join his campaign
(4): Why he still belongs to the church, even after being shown all the nasty sermons he claims to have previously been unaware of
(5): How, exactly, he was unaware of those sermons, which were included in a DVD collection of Wright's "best sermons" from the period Obama attended the church.
You've heard of beating a dead horse, surely.
And of ignoring the elephant in the room.
If John McCain had spent decades attending a church which espoused the belief that the duty of God was to advance the white race, exactly how soon would the media have gotten tired of talking about it? At a rough estimate, 2045. Hell, you still occasionally see stories about how Bush's granddad was mixed up with Nazis.
"I would start by not requesting, as Obama did, that the *invaded* country stop being so violent."
So it is your position that Georgia's use of violence in this affair was 100% appropriate (or possibly that Georgia used too little violence)?
Joan, I agree, McCain's got good media people on his staff. I assume they're not the ones who created the stuff
in his campaign store.
Another education president? I guess he really does agree with Bush 90 percent of the time.
Revenant, everytime I've been to Disneyworld, Space Mountain's been out of order. What does that mean?
It has herpes.
I think the problem is precisely that conservatives don't like McCain, and a great many Reps as well.
It's not nearly as satisfying poking fun at someone everyone agrees is sorta disagreeable versus someone who's got legions of worshipers.
The problem with the temple thing--which I figured was just absurd--is that it was plausible. (Well, not all that plausible, because however they feel about BHO, the DNC can't be that tone-deaf.) But it fits in with the media adulation and screaming fans.
Hands down the most remarkable thing about either candidacy is the adoration of BHO. No contest. The candidates are otherwise unremarkable from what I see.
Revenant, the McCain analogy is weak. The white race doesn't need advancing; we're pretty much comfortably in charge still. I just don't see the lurking menace in the Obama's church history, and there's a huge difference between black liberation theology and the Aryan Nation/Christian Identity movement.
In any case, now that the race proper is underway, don't you think that will crop up again, if it looks like a useful point of attack for McCain? He's doing awfully well at coming up with good ads, so if he wants that topic in the media, he can make it happen.
Beth, I agree that McCain's people have been throwing out the POW card way too often lately. It was a lame response to the "How many houses?" gaffe, and I wince every time they bring it up as a defense, because it's so non-responsive. What they really should say is, "They're Cindy's houses; John doesn't keep track," which has the dual advantages of being true and brief.
Personally, I'm not going to bash McCain for falling in love with Cindy while he was still married to his first wife. He admits it was a terrible thing to do, and he has treated his wife, and her sons from her previous marriage, with honor as far as I know.
I may be one of the ones who busted Kerry for being a kept man, but McCain's not comparable, IMO. His family was well-off before he ever met Cindy -- and besides, McCain's obviously not into all the trappings of the elite. Kerry didn't marry just one rich woman, he somehow found two and persuaded them to marry him. Besides that, I can never respect John Kerry for the way he testified to all those lies in the Winter Soldier hearings.
He can't make the media talk about it any more than he can make them talk about Ayers.
Fortunately (for all of us), there's less concentrated power there than ever.
Joan, what makes you think McCain's not into the wealth? He's as elite as any guy tripping lightly in $500 Ferragamos. There always seems to be a "but it's different" response when someone points out a similarity between McCain and a Democrat who's taken heat for a similar offense. I don't see the difference. They both married up; they both have been able to maintain their life in politics because the wife had big bucks. I suspect it's just harder to joke about it when it's the guy you're going to vote for, however reluctantly.
But hey, I managed to get through the disappointment of being a Clinton voter and realizing he is personally a nasty piece of work. It can be done.
Revenant, everytime I've been to Disneyworld, Space Mountain's been out of order. What does that mean?
Metaphorically speaking, that Lindsey was heterosexual that week. :)
So it is your position that Georgia's use of violence in this affair was 100% appropriate (or possibly that Georgia used too little violence)
Yes, Georgia's use of violence against the invading Russian army was 100% appropriate.
I must say goodnight, though I've enjoyed the discussions in these wee hours. I've let hurricane avoidance keep me up this late. Now I'm starting to realize that evacuate or stay, we have a lot to do before Gustav comes ashore, wherever that may be. There are already reports of gas stations running out of fuel and I don't want to think about what Walmart or Sam's Club will look like tomorrow.
Sweet dreams, all.
The relevant issue with McCain/Hagee and Obama/Wright is whether each pastor's insane views will exercise an influence on policy. In the case of Wright, nutty views like the CIA causing AIDS have a 0% chance of influencing an Obama administration's policies.
In the case of Hagee, the view, for example, that the Bible gives Israel to the Jews and that that principle should dominate our foreign policy has a much greater chance of influencing the administration.
The relationships between the candidates and the pastors are different, but different in ways that make McCain/Hagee more dangerous. Obama had a personal and spiritual relationship with Wright; it's quite plausible that they disagree on specific political issues - esp. on Wright's far-out views - although association with the church no doubt helped Obama's rise.
The McCain/Hagee relationship is expressly political so it is far more plausible that Hagee will get something tangible in return for granting the support McCain solicited.
I'm not sure what exactly is being claimed about "black liberation theology" and its relationship to Obama, but I suspect that whatever case is asserted is made up of a relatively small number of scattered, out-of-context fragments that are presented as representative of a very complex phenomenon: the life of a church over several decades with many leaders in various capacities and many, many worshipers. Basically, it's cheap talk in all likelihood.
"Yes, Georgia's use of violence against the invading Russian army was 100% appropriate."
Does that include the initial atack on the South Ossetian capital, which was garrisoned by Russian troops? You believe that that was a wise and appropriate use of force?
Take care, Beth!
Revenant, the McCain analogy is weak. The white race doesn't need advancing; we're pretty much comfortably in charge still.
Oh? Which part of the country are you in charge in? Obama's in charge of half the Illinois Senate delegation. Which of your situations sounds more advanced to you? The "white race" isn't in charge of jack shit. Individual whites, Asians, blacks, Hispanics, et al, are in charge of things.
"Oh", you'll say, "but a higher percentage of blacks are poor or uneducated than are whites". Yes, and? The problem is that PEOPLE are poor and uneducated. Saying "let's help the blacks" is racist. A homeless family needs a home even if they inconveniently happen to be white. That's why normal, non-racist churches focus on "helping the poor" (who are quite often black) rather than taking the black liberation theology approach of "help black people and the other races can go screw". You can't excuse racial discrimination by saying that the people being discriminated against are on average better off than the ones doing the discriminating. Racism is always and in all its forms BAD, no matter how lowly the racists. Although of course Wright and the folks in his church were mostly middle and upper-class in the first place.
I just don't see the lurking menace in the Obama's church history
There'd be no lurking menace in McCain being affiliated with white supremacists, either; the country is, after all, openly hostile to that ideology and he wouldn't dare put it into practice. The reason Barack's membership in the church is relevant is that it indicates that he himself is either an anti-white racist or has no problem associating with them for political advantage. It is a moral issue, like discovering that the Presidential candidate is a pedophile -- even though it isn't likely to affect their job, it tells you that they aren't morally fit for office.
there's a huge difference between black liberation theology and the Aryan Nation/Christian Identity movement.
Aside from skin color and the fact that you've only got white guilt about one of the two groups? Not so huge, no.
In any case, now that the race proper is underway, don't you think that will crop up again, if it looks like a useful point of attack for McCain?
Sure. I think it'll do a lot of harm to Obama with white swing voters, since most of us don't share your belief that anti-white racism is no biggie. But I think it would be better if the public learned about Obama's church through actual impartial analysis rather than through 30-second attack ads. What do we even need a news media for if private citizens end up having to do all the journalism?
I know Beth is gone for the night (hope everything goes well in N.O.), but I'm still up...
I don't think McCain is into the trappings of the elite because I've never seen anything to make me think that way. Remember, I've been living in AZ for 14+ years. This post in the Corner today confirmed my opinion. McCain is rich enough to live wherever he chooses, and he chooses Pentagon City? OK then.
Re the shoes: you think he shops for himself, with a wife like Cindy? Please.
Anyway: They both married up; they both have been able to maintain their life in politics because the wife had big bucks. I suspect it's just harder to joke about it when it's the guy you're going to vote for, however reluctantly.
I agree that they both married up. "They were both able to maintain their life in politics because of their wives' money" isn't how I would say it -- certainly McCain's career started with Cindy's money, but as for maintaining it, I think he's done well on his own, although that's just a general impression. Kerry, I have no idea how he's managed to be re-elected so many times, he's never done anything. And yet he managed to be his party's nominee in 2004.
With these two particular guys, it has nothing to do with who gets my vote. It has everything to do with the fact that Kerry is utterly despicable and singularly without accomplishment besides the whole Winter Soldier fiasco. McCain, as far as I can tell, is an arrogant s.o.b. who finds it convenient, for now, to ally himself to the Republican party, while frequently stabbing conservatives in the back or selling them out. There are plenty of issues on which to mock McCain. I just haven't seen Obama's people doing so effectively.
BTW, I do think the Rev. Wright issue will resurface as soon as the Republican convention ends. Most people are unaware that Obama attended a Black Liberation Theology church which denounced "white middle class values" for 20 years. This relationship is much more devastating than the William Ayers stuff. And Zero, assigning greater influence to Hagee over McCain because theirs is a strictly political relationship is spectacularly bizarre. You've got it exactly backwards. Hagee is nothing to McCain; Wright was someone that Obama couldn't denounce right up until he threw the Reverend under the bus.
Does that include the initial atack on the South Ossetian capital
How can a nonexistent country have a capital? Georgia sent troops into another part of Georgia, recognized as such by the United States, by NATO, and by the United Nations.
which was garrisoned by Russian troops
Georgia had requested that they leave, as it had the legal right to.
You believe that that was a wise and appropriate use of force?
It doesn't matter if it was or wasn't. What does matter is that Russia had no cause for invasion of Georgia -- and Georgia had every right to fight back once they did.
The relevant issue with McCain/Hagee and Obama/Wright
I've said this before, but I'll repeat: if you think Americans will look at Hagee and Wright and think they cancel each other out, you're nuts. Both men are crazy, sure. Hagee is anti-Catholic. Wright is anti-white and anti-Jew. Even if you could somehow convince people that McCain's brief acceptance of Hagee's support is equivalent to Obama's twenty years with Wright, his book inspired by Wright's sermon, and his inclusion of Wright as a campaign spiritual advisor, you're still stuck with the fact that there are a hell of a lot more whites and Jews in America than there are Catholics -- and, for that matter, a lot more people who agree with Hagee's theology than agree with Wright's.
It was fun watching how incredibly uncomfortable you were in that video on C&L. Like the whole world is out to get you. Paranoid much?
(they sometimes allow dissenting voices, if one is very focussed and very carefully-written),
You mean if a guy with a huge c@ck and giant brain is writing it. I bypass filters on lefty feminist blogs whenever I want. But the fat, depserate chicks always end up trying to flirt. It's pathetic. Leftist feminist blogs are really just social networking opportunities for women too ugly for match.com or the singles scene.
there's a huge difference between black liberation theology and the Aryan Nation/Christian Identity movement.
Obama-fan Dr Cone pointing to Trinity as the archetype of Black Liberation Theology:
"Black Liberation Theology will only accept the love of a God that participates in the destruction of the White enemy"
there's a huge difference between black liberation theology and the Aryan Nation/Christian Identity movement.
Sure, just like there's a huge diff between black racists and white racists...
Its hypocritical to whitewash one and denounce the other. You either stand against racism or you don't, its not situational based on the perp's own race.
I feel good about the city and state preparations this time
Yah, looks like someone in the local gov decided to brush up on the after action report of the last hurricane, this time around.
Regardless, good luck. Its looking like the hurricane will hit Texas coast instead.
The stage looked to me like a leftover set from the West Wing. Maybe Martin Sheen donated it.
I'm quite late to the post - watching the Packers (oy, it'll be a long season), The Speech and hittin' the hay early.
To start off, I think the set ended up looking fine. How funny it is to watch folks jump to conclusions when things are taken out of context.
And for the C&L post, ya gotta take it all with a grain of salt. Maybe entertaining, but not too interesting. Certainly, not as interesting as what we have here.
And, hey Beth, thanks for representing, last night. Stay safe.
The stage looked to me like a leftover set from the West Wing.
I thought the set looked good. It would have looked better indoors; the stadium setting was a mistake, I think. A smaller crowd indoors *seems* bigger and more enthusiastic than an outdoor crowd, too.
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