ADDED: Hi. I'm back. The blogger meetup was tonight. Didn't you know?
AND: The NYT says:
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton won a lopsided victory on Tuesday over Senator Barack Obama in the West Virginia primary, where racial considerations emerged as an unusually salient factor. Mrs. Clinton drew strong support from white, working-class voters, who have spurned Mr. Obama in recent contests.White. White. White. Race. Race. Race. Oh, you Democrats. You've really made a nice place for yourselves.
The number of white Democratic voters who said race had influenced their choices on Tuesday was among the highest recorded in voter surveys in the nomination fight. Two in 10 white West Virginia voters said race was an important factor in their votes. More than 8 in 10 who said it factored in their votes backed Mrs. Clinton, according to exit polls.Ugh. Is the NYT painting it this way, or does HC's big victory deserve this downgrade?
UPDATE: There's a great comments thread inside, but since we've gone over 200 here, making the comments hard to see, please continue the conversation on this new thread that points back here.
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২৪৩টি মন্তব্য:
«সবচেয়ে পুরাতন ‹পুরাতন 243 এর 201 – থেকে 243Why not say the same about Hillary or Obama, who are also both as liable to have heart attacks or cancer as McCain.
Quite.
Not to be crude, but if Dick Cheney hasn't kicked the bucket with ALL the scares we've had these years, McCain will be fine.
Do you know how many bouts of skin cancer Ted Kennedy has had in his lifetime?
This kind of morbid wishful-thinking is beneath even partisan speculation.
Cheers,
Victoria
Wow...I go to take a shower and by the time I come back someone named "Joan" has gone down the gay road. Nice.
I already work for a company whose HR company loves my blog, so thanks. And I'm not too worried about "my children" reading my postings because, you know, I'M GAY and won't be having children. Hell, even if I wanted to adopt I probably couldn't if I lived in West Virginia.
Palladian- I'm only passive when I need to be.
Palladian-
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was/is titus.
Folks, we are now at the point where people have to come into the comments section and click "newest" to get the latter parts of the comments section. (This is usually my cue to e-mail Althouse an alert, whether or not she appreciates it, in case she wants to remind people of this Blogger [strike]annoyance[/strike] "feature"--along with such things as the lack of ability to use such html as, oh, strikeout.)
Just an fyi. Maybe someone else wants to do the honors.
I've been called a young douchebag passive asshole all in one night without ever making a negative remark about anyone.
But I draw the line when someone says that I am Titus.
Goodnight!
The "point where" meaning the 200-comments mark.
Zachary: You never made a negative comment about anybody? What about the people of West Virginia, who according to you shouldn't have the right to vote because they don't have enough money or education?
Chris: See also my 10:58 and 11:07, and, to be fair, Simon's 11:01.
10:57 and 11:08.
Most errors, are, in fact, screw-ups by people, not inchoate machines. Really, MY bad. I've gotten to the point, it seems, where I really must jot things down (if I'm not going to cut and paste them completely), and not rely on what truly used to be an excellent mind for recalling, and even entering, accurate number-series. No more, as is manifestly true.
Sorry, folks, for the unnecessary diversation, and to you, Chris, also, for wasting your time.
Zach, should I not have mentioned that? What does "gone down the gay road" even mean? I have no idea of the etiquette of these things. I just figured it would be OK to mention your orientation because you bring it up on your blog, and because, as I said, I was going to remind you of the potential humiliation of your future offspring, but that was obviously a moot point given the whole gay thing. I see you agree with me on that point, so what's the problem?
Anyway, back on topic, I think seeing McCain with his mom in that charming Mother's Day spot they did together should dispel most worries about Candidate McCain keeling over any time soon.
Sweet you-know-what: diversion. I give up (at least for now). It's a mercy, if not a miracle, that I'm still employable. Guess I use it up there. Or something.
[hangs head ... slinks away.]
vbspurs: Interesting hypothetical, but what's the basis for this rumor? Seems hard to believe that she would have information that no one in the media--even Sean Hannity--could get.
...but the Clintons apparently have a massive time-bomb at the ready about Senator Obama's private life.
If this is true, the sheer spectacle of it will be like nothing we've seen before. On a purely visceral level, I'd love to see it happen.
On the other hand, I believe Barack Obama is a (relatively) good man and I do not wish to see his character destroyed just so Hillary can get the nomination. If there are bona fide skeletons in the closet, they need to be brought out, but I don't want to see the Clinton campaign smear Obama any worse than they already have. How much uglier can this race (heh) get?
Let's hope young Zachary never interviews for a position at a company where the HR department routinely googles the candidates.
According to his blog profile, his occupation is "Writer". So he might just be self-employed.
Of course, according to Google his written work has consisted of some blogging and a couple posts to Democratic Underground, so I suspect "Writer" is meant in the typical Los Angeles sense of "Starbucks employee with Big Plans".
I believe Robert Byrd had several chunks of the Federal bureaucracy deported to WV to fill up buildings named after him and to drive on his highways.
Where did you get that ZPS is gay? Is it because he filled in his astrological sign?
Good night again, Althouse readers. I go to sleep a little down, but I'm glad to have a readership like ya'll around, occasional warts and all.
Cheers,
Victoria
I'm not really comfortable with even intimations being floated about if they're not actually "ripe" enough to actually have information attached to them, to tell you the truth, Victoria.
On the one hand, I can see the parallel with "after-deadline bar talk," in which I certainly participated, from time to time, back in the day. On the other, this is not a bar stuck in some town or other, at which people collect and intimate, with the larger world none the wiser. Virtually speaking, it's more akin to a billboard potentially filmed and broadcast to points unsuspected and unknown, to be iterated and used to whatever end.
On that basis, and I hope you know with all due respect, I wish this hadn't come up (on account of lack of "ripeness") and that we wouldn't keep talking about it. If the details are that shaky, then what's to support the speculation, much less the sharing, much less the speculation from the sharing?
RIA
RIA, you're right. Shall I delete?
Usually I type a reply in a few seconds, being a fast typist.
But this reply, because of its delicate nature, has taken me a while to compose.
And yet it says virtually nothing.
Can you at least give me a hint about the alleged scandal?
It must be the time of the night, and my being down, because I realised that is no one's call but my own.
For the record, I have also saved a copy of what I wrote -- not to preen myself in future, but to remind myself that this was unworthy of speculation. I apologise.
Good night for real.
Victoria
Jesus Christ.
Joan: "going down the gay road" was my way of saying, "why are you bringing my sexuality into this?"
Chris: People in WV shouldn't cast their votes if they don't have the facts about the candidates (Obama isn't a Muslim), but I don't seriously mean to say they shouldn't vote. I wish they wouldn't...but they should and they will.
I wrote once on DU over 6 years ago and could care less about that crazy site now.
I work at an ad agency as a copywriter and do freelance work (real writing) on the side that frees me from the confines of the ad agency. My B.A. is in Literary Journalism.
I'm a Taurus. I have a MySpace page. I've never worked at a Starbucks. I dropped out of grad school last year because I couldn't afford it.
No mysteries here.
Where did you get that ZPS is gay? Is it because he filled in his astrological sign?
This post confirmed the suspicion that was aroused by previous posts discussing soap operas, getting a dog (with really, really cute photos), and the fact that Zachary thinks no one has a kitchen table anymore, although I was willing to chalk that one up to the fact that he's only 22. He's an entertaining writer, but his youth really shines through, even when he's not explicitly mentioning it.
I'm twice as old as Zachary. I vaguely remember being as smart as he is, half a lifetime ago.
Wow. Thank God this comment thread's over.
And, actually, I'm sure lots of us noticed that Victoria has a boyfriend, we were just too busy nursing broken hearts to comment.
Oh, crap, I was fooled by the 200 message limit again!
Curse you, blogger!
I was getting ready to ask you, Blake, if you were aware of that, based on the somewhat-non-sequitur nature of your comment (based on my knowing what the latest comments were), but I see you've figured that out for yourself.
Buck up, friend! You have, after all, I'm pretty sure, come to if not the, then close to the, end.
; )
Joan...I'm not 22...I'm 31. You say my youth shines through, which says more about you than it does about me, in my opinion. I could critique your blog but the content didn't hold my interest. Thanks for checking me out, though.
Diet tips: "Well, I'll tell you, I'm getting older and my metabolism isn't that of the 18-year-old I was four years ago." (emphasis added)
I interpreted this to mean that 4 years ago, you were 18.
31? Wow.
Everyone else: sorry for taking this so off-track. Are we done now?
Joan,
The real fraud would be if he claims to be good at math...
reader,
Buck up, friend! You have, after all, I'm pretty sure, come to if not the, then close to the, end.
Yeah, with a scant 5 1/2 months to go before the election, I'm sure we won't have to deal with this sort of thread till 2011.
You guys are too kind. Bashing West Virginians is not elitist, its the mark of an ignorant bigot.
Funny how all the bigots and racists cling to the "post-racial" candidate.
My local paper (WaPo) went to great lengths to downplay the win.
nowhere in the article does it give the percentages. You have to follow the break intoi the back pages to discover "2 to 1" .
course it was better than 2.5 to 1, but anyway....
I am curious: the voters of WV have voted the Grand Kleagle of the Knights of the White Camelia into the Senate repeatedly for the last nearly 40 years. Never have I heard any outrage over that--At least the voters of WV are more consistent in their "racism" than is the democratic party.
Palladian: I was late to the thread and see that I have to give you a retroactive Technical foul for Titus baiting. Thats two in two days. One more and you may lose your posting privileges. ;-)
The Party has been obsessing about race for a long time. It is hardly surprising that that obsession is coming back to haunt them.
One comment above complained about the alleged statement of Bush that he has given up golf:
"I don't want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the commander in chief playing golf,” he said. “I feel I owe it to the families to be in solidarity as best as I can with them. And I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal.”
The real issue here, as usual, is that Bush is just unusually frank for a politician.
During the run up to the Gulf war, his father was shown on TV in Maine, in what was called a "cigarette boat" evidently a small fast motorboat. And indeed Bush41 was criticized at the time for permitting an inappropriately nonchalant image to be broadcast.
It goes without saying that giving up golf does not constitute a serious sacrifice (at least for most people, though it would for Tiger Woods). But Bush is no doubt correct that the MSM, in their eagerness to see the US defeated in Iraq, would indeed use images of Bush golfing in exactly the way he feared: to suggest that he is indifferent to the suffering that is part of any war.
If as I hope, McCain wins, these opponents of the war against islamist terror will have to find a new way to attack.
Yes, it seems the press wants to paint a picture of white voters for Clinton as racist.
Funny though that I have not noticed nearly the same concerns of racism when Obama pulls in over 90% percent of the black vote in North Carolina. Was race an important factor in black Dems choice? That appears very likely.
This foolishness does seem to be the inevitable result of reinforcing group identities based on superficial traits rather than actions and values.
DAMMIT, ANN!
IF IT WEREN'T FOR BUSH! BUSH! BUUUUUUUUSH! WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO SCREW OVER THE BLACK PEOPLE (again)...
But Bush is no doubt correct that the MSM, in their eagerness to see the US defeated in Iraq, would indeed use images of Bush golfing in exactly the way he feared: to suggest that he is indifferent to the suffering that is part of any war.
That goes without saying.
He still bikes every morning for 3 miles, but golf is (still) considered a rich white man's sport, without contest especially abroad where golf is just that; but also specifically when done in the country clubs he golfs in because of security, and not in the public fairways.
It's part of the same reason the First Family had Jenna's wedding at Crawford. Sure, they probably would've done so even in peacetime, but it helps that this was a discrete affair.
Discretion may not be popular in terms of making selfless gestures, but it's not a bad thing either.
Blake: Awww. :)
Cheers,
Victoria
People in WV shouldn't cast their votes if they don't have the facts about the candidates
Hm, does this mean Zach will be condemning Democratic voters who believe McCain wants Americans fighting and dying in Iraq for a hundred years? Will he be insisting that they not vote either?
I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess "no".
Chris - this reply is super-late, but today has been hectic. What I meant about the primary calender is not so much the length of it but its compression - the front-loading of the calender with such a high fraction of delegates at stake, followed by a long gap without anything, followed by a trickling out of the balance of the delegates. That's a recipe for trouble; increasing the spread of states makes it harder to get a knockout punch earlier on, but avoids the situation you're now seeing where it becomes clear that the prematurely-crowned frontrunner has some real problems only far too late in the process to stop it.
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