In other news from the Middle East:
A Turkish barber accused of swearing at God is sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia, with his family back in Turkey calling on authorities to intervene....
According to reports, Boğday argued with his neighbor, an Egyptian tailor, and was arrested after the tailor told the police that he had sworn at God....
Muazzez Boğday said her husband knew the laws of Saudi Arabia well and would never swear. “Even if he did, he would never swear at God. He knows what the punishment would be,” she said.
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43 comments:
And these people are "civilized"?
They can be negotiated with and we can trust them to keep their end?
One way and only one way to deal with these people, a bullet between the eyes.
The only civilized way to deal with barbarians is to kill them.
If you don't believe that, then you are a fool.
Little girls get married to older men all the time in the Middle East, especially among the rural poor.
It's not thousands of incidents, but tens upon tens of thousands, now and over the years.
If you have a lot of daughters, you can sell them off. They're a profit center. Women are property. Plus, the marriages cement business ties with other families.
Eight or 10 would be the minimum age or menarche, according to this Iraqi expert on Islamic marriage customs on Youtube. This age minimum was set by the Muhammad who had a child bride.
The news article said the the little girl's marriage was consummated, but that the husband did not beat her. She now has no value as she is no longer a virgin. She has disgraced her family. God help her.
You know . . . this is bad . . . on this subject, my sense of humor fails me, completely.
Seriously.
It’s all well and good -- and a lot of fun -- to poke at the high and mighty here in the United States, the best country in the world, but some people wake up one day to find themselves born into the asshole of the Universe.
Life is not fair and God is to blame!
I really mean it.
He can suck my big, fat, hairy hanging dick!
Hey, wait a minute . . .
Is that my sense of humor coming back around the bend?
By God, I think it is !!!1!11!
"Where is your God now, Moses?"
I have to question the sanity -- and the ethics, for that matter -- of people who do business in Saudi Arabia. It is a disgusting and barbaric nation.
What does poverty have to do with it?
I suspect their culture and religion are the cause of this quaint custom, but to discuss it would be un-PC.
This is utter barberism.
But seriously, we used to have neighbors accusing neighbors of witchcraft to settle scores. That was only 300 years ago. The Saudis are also about 300 years behind on gender issues and race relations and religious freedom . . .
Are we really going to have to wait 300 years for this to stop? I hope a free Iraq can influence the Saudis in a positive way.
"A Turkish barber accused of swearing at God is sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia . . ."
And yet, these people are our "allies." At least Saddam Hussein was not guilty of this particular stripe of atrocity. Christians under his regime were free to worship openly in Baghdad. Here's hoping that they still will be free to do so under whatever eventually results from America's attempts at nation-building there.
Look, all I said was "This piece of meat is good enough for Jehovah!"
But seriously, we used to have neighbors accusing neighbors of witchcraft to settle scores. That was only 300 years ago.
Actually, people pretty much thought it was nuts 300 years ago, too. There was a big public backlash against the Salem trials.
Savages.
At least Saddam Hussein was not guilty of this particular stripe of atrocity.
True. Under Saddam, you'd have gotten the death penalty for swearing at him, not God.
Are we really going to have to wait 300 years for this to stop? I hope a free Iraq can influence the Saudis in a positive way.
Oh, you mean like in the 'free' region of Kurdistan where not long ago a thirteen year old girl was stoned to death for spending a night with a teenage boy?
Or do you mean the new Iraqi constitution that specifies that Sharia is a source for the law and which has already led to laws that have rolled back women's rights in matters like divorce, inheritance and other civil law and custody to a point for worse than they were even under Saddam?
Somehow I wouldn't look at Iraq to provide much of an example for Saudi Arabia.
Beyond that, now that the Colorado City polygamists have had their Texas compound raided, I wonder if they will be building one in Yemen?
Clearly some people are simply not enlightened enough to only see this as barbarism and not a celebration of a Muslim nation's rich and vibrant culture.
Bigots.
Somehow I wouldn't look at Iraq to provide much of an example for Saudi Arabia.
You are absolutely right Eli. The thought that these people would be civilized enough to embrace freedom and democracy over their rich cultural heritage of ancient tribal traditions like stoning teenage girls and marrying 8 year olds is the height of arrogance.
Bigots, all of them.
It is not a 300 year gap.
The gap is roughly 1,429 years, as this is year 1429 in the Islamic calendar which began when Muhammad entered Medina in 570 A.D. The dating system begins at that point because it represents Muhammad's first military conquest over non-believers.
The basis of modern-day child marriage in the Arab and/or Muslim world arises directly from the example set by Muhammad in his marriage to Aisha. It is believed she was six at the time of the ceremony and that Muhammad waited until she was nine before consummating the vows.
Go here and here to learn more and read translations of Hadiths (stories about Muhammad).
Interestingly, as Islam is all-encompassing, you will read scholarly exegesis explaining why it is permissible for girls to play with dolls and how that does not violate the ban on 'graven' imagery or idolatry. Dolls, you see, are useful in teaching girls their future roles. Play has not a thing to do with it.
UN Human Rights Council - 2009
Amomg others:
Saudi Arabia
China
Russia
SUGGESTED ELEMENTS FOR
VOLUNTARY PLEDGES AND COMMITMENTS BY CANDIDATES FOR ELECTION TO
THE HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL
I'm with George on this one again.
And I'll point out that this is Sharia law. The stuff that the Archbishop of Canterbury is that Brits ought to embrace as both inevitable and welcome.
Now coming to Western countries like yours.
I'd be interested to know if pederasty/marrying children was a practice that was already being done by some in the culture, and was frowned upon... and if Islam became popular because it made this practice acceptable. Acquiring wives early and often was perhaps a motivating factor that trumped all other considerations. Even if it means giving up your own daughters at a disgustingly young age.
It puts me in mind of the practice for "curing" AIDS that takes place widely in Africa and India (maybe other places too, but I've always heard those two): have intercourse with a virgin. Of course, the only way to know for sure if she's a virgin is if she's really, really young. So there are brothels filled with 6-years and the like.
The whole thing makes me want to throw up.
Actually, people pretty much thought it was nuts 300 years ago, too. There was a big public backlash against the Salem trials.
There's a fair chance that there was a biological cause for the start of the Salem witch hysteria.
Ann, you need to pull this. You are publishing pure hate speech here. It is clear that these articles are likely to expose Muslims to hatred or comtempt. You should be ashamed of yourself, you hatemonger.
Ann, you need to pull this. You are publishing pure hate speech here. It is clear that these articles are likely to expose Muslims to hatred or comtempt. You should be ashamed of yourself, you hatemonger.
Knox--
Many years ago I had a conversation with a Saudi guy about human rights in Islam or in Saudi Arabia.
He spoke proudly of the fact that Muhammad put an end to female infanticide.
That was his idea of progress, and it happened 1,400 years ago.
In a nomadic aliterate tribal society, extra girls can easily be viewed as burdens whose need for food threatens the existence of the tribe or as property to be sold for the benefit of the tribe. We also still see the favoritism towards male children in China and India; sex-selected abortion rates are higher in the U.S., too, among some ethnic groups. It's called 'female deselection.'
8 year old? I thought Mo set the age at 9 years of age. no wonder she was able to get a divorce. I wonder if the groom was under 50.
I see he was 28. That makes all the difference, doesn't it?
Here is the link to the March 2008 study regarding son-bias in U.S. births among Chinese, Indian, and Koreans. Its authors "interpret the found deviation in favor of sons to be evidence of sex selection, most likely at the prenatal stage."
Note how two columnists respond. One is cool. The most he can say is that the study's results should give one "pause." (Note his oblique criticism of Sen. Obama.)
The other calls it a "horror," but can only bring himself to use that word at the end of his piece.
And, Caradoc, these practices occur across cultural, national, ethnic, income, and religious lines. There is no shame in discussing them. The shame lies in silence.
The Drill SGT,
Now coming to Western countries like yours.
Barak Obama actively supports Sharia law. Not only that he uses his position as a US Senator to advance the cause. One can only wonder what he would do as a President.
Raila Odinga, it said, who was then the current presidential frontrunner, had promised to implement strict Islamic Sharia law if he received the Muslim vote and was elected president. Odinga had signed a secret memorandum of understanding with Sheikh Abdullahi Abdi, chairman of the National Leaders Forum, in which Odinga had allegedly stated his intention, if elected, to
‘within six months, rewrite the Constitution of Kenya to recognize Sharia as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Quran for Muslim declared regions’.
You might ask what does this have to do with Barak Obama. Well, here you go.
Obama's Kenya Connection
What, you will be asking by now, what does any of this have to do with Barack Obama? Well, Mr. Obama's father came from Kenya and his son is proud to call himself a Luo. His Kenyan relations boast that, even if they cannot get a Luo into the Kenyan presidential residence, they can look forward to a Luo in the White House.
Indeed, the connection may be even closer than a tribal one. Mr. Odinga even claims that Mr. Obama is his cousin, because the senator's father was Mr. Odinga's maternal uncle. Whether or not this true, the two men are friends and political allies.
In August 2006, Mr. Obama visited Kenya and spoke in support of Mr. Odinga's candidacy at rallies in Nairobi. The Web site Atlas Shrugs has even posted a photograph of the two men side by side. More recently, Mr. Odinga says that Mr. Obama interrupted his campaigning in New Hampshire to have a telephone conversation with his African cousin about the constitutional crisis in Kenya.
What should Americans make of Mr. Obama's Kenyan connection? If he has been putting tribal or family considerations above America's national interest by supporting Mr. Odinga's anti-Western candidacy, it raises serious questions about his judgement.
At the time of his visit in 2006, President Kibaki's spokesman complained that Mr. Obama was behaving like a "stooge" of Mr. Odinga — which was at best undignified for a visiting American senator, and at worst unwarranted interference in the internal politics of another country.
You can read all about Obama's connections to Islamofascism here.
It makes me puke to see George Bush hugging and holding hands with these guys when they come over here. And they think we're animals...infidels! Women are property over there, like slaves. Maybe we could send Hillary over there to straighten them out a bit? I have a feeling shes going to be looking for something to do very soon now...
I had the experience of being in "The Kingdom" in 1988-1989; informing on your neighbors to settle disputes was a relatively common practice. The informants usually went to the religious police (mutawas or stick men as we called them) and complained; the civil police generally tried to steer clear of these things.
probably there are some grrls from the MORMON polygamy ranch that will say the same thing.
lolz
Yea those Saudis are atrocious, but the Palestinians are the victims deserving of sympathy, even though they act the same way towards women and children, as well as launch rockets into random Israeli neighborhoods and commit and celebrate the mass murder of Jews.
I am confused because I think they are all barbarians. Not much room for nuance in their cultural similarities.
If Bush held hands with Abbas, would that make the PA seem less sympathetic to the left? Or would it be a sign that Bush has "grown" in office?
I notice the lefties comparison of the elected Government of Iraq to Saddam's regime favors Saddam. Alleging that women had it better under Saddam is particularly stupid, especially if you have actually been to Iraq and talked to people who's wives and daughters were raped by Saddams thugs, or their childrens tongues cut out because their family was accused of saying bad things about the regime.
Yes, very stupid, indeed.
And, Caradoc, these practices occur across cultural, national, ethnic, income, and religious lines. There is no shame in discussing them. The shame lies in silence.
It's possible caradoc was being sarcastic. I hope he wasn't serious.
I have to add that in Westernized countries, this might indeed occur, but the people who do it are universally considered criminals or immoral. Not the case elsewhere, obviously. It is impossible to talk about it without being very, very un-PC. That's why the media doesn't widely cover it.
I notice the lefties comparison of the elected Government of Iraq to Saddam's regime favors Saddam. Alleging that women had it better under Saddam is particularly stupid, especially if you have actually been to Iraq and talked to people who's wives and daughters were raped by Saddams thugs, or their childrens tongues cut out because their family was accused of saying bad things about the regime.
Yes, I have to laugh when they fall over themselves to make this argument.
Oh well, any opportunity to try to make Bush look bad.
This sounds like an update on the Jerry Lee Lewis jokes of the '50s. You know, the ones where the 8-yr old West Virginian says “Iffen I don’t get no better marks in school, my hubby’s gonna divorce me.”
Got a big laugh among the effete elite I went to school with in the Northeast. (OOPS make that “with whom I went to school”.)
If you want to reduce the world's population (which would at least theoretically also reduce pollution and CO2 emissions and so forth) the quickest way is to reduce the number of females in the population. Fewer women to conceive and bear, fewer people. QED.
I tend to think that the Islamists are just very, very advanced Leftist One-Worlders.
The most important thing happening to the ME is cell phones and computers.
Even if Iraq has taken a step backwards contact with other cultures will liquefy their own.
The big question is what kind of censorship regime is in place. Little or none = good.
Unbelievable. Archaic laws and utter stupidity. Not quite related, imagine what would happen if that swearing law was worldwide with how men and women see it as everyday vocabulary.
I thought it was going to be about the Apostate LDS group in Texas.
I guess that none of those guys would force a girl to marry unless she had been through puberty.
There seems to be no bottom to the depravity to which human beings can sink. A Civilization should be measured by the extent to which it allows such things to go on. (Sorry, moral relativists.)
"Oh well, any opportunity to try to make Bush look bad."
More like, any opportunity to highlight and underscore the folly of war, and to try to make (or rather "let") all politicians look bad.
The folly of war?
Damn Spartans. They should have just knuckled under to the Persians.
And America, surely, would be better off, as would the world, had she just stayed a colony of Britain. (Just look at Canada! Everybody loves Canada!)
And if only those damn abolitionists didn't get all up-in-arms over slavery. Surely a little slavery is no mean price for peace.
Nor a little genocide. After all, the Japanese intended for Pearl Harbor to be a warning for us to just stay out of the conflict. We were too foolish and belligerent to listen, though. And we could have easily convinced Hitler we weren't interested in fighting in Europe, especially if we had just stopped supplying the Allies.
(Etc.)
John, you don't know Eli do you?
Sorry is this is a 2nd posting. I don't usually post here very often.
Saudi Arabia outlawed slavery in 1962--1962 not 1862. Mauritania did it only this year--condition of current slaves is still in doubt. Check out http://www.iabolish.org/ for more info.
11:10 AM
Just a quick response to the foul mouthed commenter who blamed this horrific atrocity on God.
In today's world everyone wants to blame things on cultures. But isn't this atrocity sin based?
In a round about way the same exact thing is happening to the children of the Fundementalist sect in TX. Children exploitation, and especially for the pleasure of sick minded men.
I don't blame God, I blame the people who don't know God.
AWG,
It seems you believe in free will and reason and God’s righteousness here on Earth.
Good.
Then you must also believe in evil and that God needs to hire Himself a more persuasive cadre of advocates.
So get to work.
Here’s hoping.
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