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४ सप्टेंबर, २००७
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८५ टिप्पण्या:
Boy, was I wrong. I thought Chuck Schumer was a shoe-in for the coveted "most complete tool in Congress" title.
What an embarrassment.
He pleads guilty to a crime, then says he doesn't mean it.
Then he resigns, and then says he doesn't mean it.
He says he's not gay. I believe him. But you heterosexuals sure are strange ones. You can have him.
dtl: Come on, show some respect for the long road this man has to travel. This is important!
I am gay! Let me be not clear!
The only road he has travelled is to the Minneapolis Airport mensroom.
At least McGreevy had the good judgment to admit he was gay when he was about to be outed.
Craig is still in denial. As I said - you straights want him, you can have him.
Maybe Craig can join up with the cycling commuter, Stephan Orsak. Sgt. Karsnia is involved in both cases.
http://greencycles.blogspot.com/
Craig needs some theme music. He might not want the obvious choice, "I will Survive." How about the theme song to "Welcome Back, Kotter"?
Why hasn't someone simply looked at the gate he landed at, the gate he was taking off from, and the location of the bathroom? If it is not between point A and point B, he obviously chose the bathroom for another reason.
Doesn't the cycling commuter case show this cop totally overreaches and abuses discretion?
Mort - I think "overreaching" was what Craig had in mind.
Ann Althouse said..."dtl: Come on, show some respect for the long road this man has to travel. This is important!"
"Respect" for a U.S. Senator who trolls airport bathrooms looking for action?
I don't think so, Ann.
Why hasn't someone simply looked at the gate he landed at, the gate he was taking off from, and the location of the bathroom? If it is not between point A and point B, he obviously chose the bathroom for another reason.
I looked and according to the police report, the bathroom is the "main mens bathroom at the Northstar Crossing." If you are familiar with the MPLS airport, this is the area if the airport where most of the shops and restuarants are. If anyone had a layover of any significant time, they would likely come to this area. Thus, the point A to point B scenario is not meaningful.
That said, Craig should still resign - no one touches someone else's feet in bathroom stalls.
I realize this blog is the home away from home for many right wing zealots...and most of you still love little G.W...but is it really more important to discuss a closet-gay Senator's monumental decision to see if he can weasel his way out an embarrassing jam...than a President who's evidently "playing" the American public, can't "remember" how the decision was made to disband the Iraqi army and can't wait to "replenish his coffers?"
"Forgotten but not gone." (Coined by G.S. Kaufman?)
"History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce." (Karl Marx?)
I'm out of mots!
LOS, we get it: he's an idiot. Show me "things we knew!" ding-ding-ding-ding. Next question...
Simon,
You're a pussy.
My Go-To Guy through all this has been Dan Savage. Today he rips into Jim McGreevey's NYT commentary about the Craig case.
Savage calls McGreevey on the idea that he was some sort of victim, having to cruise rest stops because there were no other choices for gay men of his generation. Savage points out that McGreevey was born too late to claim to be part of the repressed generation.
I think it's worth a read.
http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/09/mcgreevey_on_craig
I agree with Dan on this. I grew up in South Jersey, born 5 years later than McGreevey. (To be clear, South Jersey is not generally known for being more progressive than the rest of the state.)
In the 1980s, I got to know several gay men and women who lived openly and were unafraid to be honest about that part of themselves, even at work. And in church, too.
Odd how our top self-identified as Feminist(tm) bloggers seek to minimize what Craig was doing and instead describe how what was really going on was just another example of men oppressing women.
Here is a very odd post with some alternative universe comments from our top feminist bloggers.
I feel compassion for Larry Craig. Gay term for these guys are "porcelain queens". Anyone ever read Joe Orton?
The guy happened to go to the one bathroom in the Minneapolis Airport that is known for this kind of activity and seemed to use all the codes/signs of the game. The different gay cruising websites only post about this specific restroom in the Minneapolis Airport. Just his bad luck that he seemed to find that one bathroom out of the many that are there. It has been reported that this was not his first time at the rodeo, I mean at the bathroom.
His actions seem to indicate that he knew exactly what he was doing.
Also, I think any adult man who would of been arrested on this type of charge would of screamed bloody murder (if he was innocent) during the conversation with the police officer. Instead, Craig talked to the officer like he knew all the ground rules for this type of activity.
I don't even think Craig thinks he gay or bi or whatever you call these individuals. He is just a married man, with a family, who happens to have sex with other men-or try to. There are many men out there like Larry Craig. I have met them, not at a gay bar or gay event or party but generally driving their cars around particular areas where they know gay men congregate-or public restrooms. It's really very sad.
Now he's got his (adopted) kids on Good Morning America saying he's not gay. I think it would of been better for him to resign and try to move on with his life.
He does seem to have an amazing legal/pr team now which he probably could of used a week ago. The guy that represented Monica Lewinsky now representing Larry Craig.
I don't think he should of been arrested, based off toe tapping and peering through a stall door-but he did plead guilty-which was dumb. If he decides to fight this it is likely that some of his other bathroom tricks from his previous encounters (and there were previous counters) will be coming forward which will only cause more pain and embarassment for him.
Lastly, the last thing the republicans want is this story lingering on for another month-they want him gone as evidenced by Mitch McConnell's comments today.
I heard Lindsey Graham is next so that should be fun.
Lucky, why do you hate the troops?
Phew.
I was worried "Curb Your Enthusiasm" had been canceled.
Sloanasaurus said...
"I looked and according to the police report, the bathroom is the "main mens bathroom at the Northstar Crossing." If anyone had a layover of any significant time, they would likely come to this area. Thus, the point A to point B scenario is not meaningful."
The plane touched down at 1138 and arrived at the gate to deplane about 1150. We can assume Senator Craig was in 1A first class (comfortably 10 feet from a lavatory BY THE WAY) on his flight in from Boise...I guess he won't use unisex airplane bathrooms...
The incident started in the men's restroom within 10 minutes of the door opening.
You could explain it by shopping I guess but I think you could also better explain it by "if I hurry, I can make the restroom and maybe hook up".
It's really very sad.
Why? He is who he is. If he self-identifies as a "straight man who happens to occasionally have sex with men," what of it?
Why is it "sad" that a man doesn't see himself as "gay"? My guess is that Craig isn't attracted to men, and like Bill Clinton, doesn't believe that a BJ counts as sex.
It is quite possible that the guy isn't a tormented soul caught between two sexual worlds, but instead someone quite comfortable in his own sexual skin. He just has secrets, like we all do.
Does that make him "gay"? An interesting question, that.
Craig is:
1) In denial.
2) Self-destructive.
3) Possessive of an unhealthy sense of entitlement to power.
4) Apparently incredibly stupid when thinking about what he can get away with.
In short, he has clearly proven his Republican bona-fides.
titus20 said...
"I don't even think Craig thinks he gay or bi or whatever you call these individuals."
He probably doesn't think of himself as "balding," either.
Craig is:
1) In denial.
2) Self-destructive.
3) Possessive of an unhealthy sense of entitlement to power.
4) Apparently incredibly stupid when thinking about what he can get away with.
1. Unlikely. He probably isn't "gay," if that word means "attracted to men."
2. Self-evident
3. He was elected numerous times to the US Senate. As such, his "sense of entitlement to power" can hardly be characterized as "unhealthy."
4. Self-evident.
I'll ignore the gibe about Republicans.
I never clarified what he is in denial about. Take your pick:
1) That wanting gay sex doesn't make one gay.
2) That he was going to be able to keep this hush-hush by pleading guilty.
3) That a Senator would be able to get away with cruising for anonymous gay sex in airport privvies without ever getting caught.
4) That he still has a political career.
So, the charge of being "in denial" stays.
"He was elected numerous times to the US Senate. As such, his "sense of entitlement to power" can hardly be characterized as "unhealthy.""
You are claiming that if someone is elected many times, any sense of entitlement they have to the position is healthy. This is hogwash.
Senators serve at the discretion and for the purposes of their people. They have no entitlement to the positions, at all, regardless of how many times they have been elected. ANY sense of entitlement they have is unhealthy.
The number of times they have been elected does not shield them from charges of having an unhealthy sense of entitlement. The more times elected, the more likely that they will develop such an unhealthy sense of entitlement. The charge stays.
As for the crack about Republicans, there is a reason the party is often called the Stupid Party. Until such a time as its elected officials stop behaving like a bunch of dimwitted royals, they deserve all the scorn and negative comments they get.
And it is not that he ran for office so many times that makes his sense of entitlement unhealthy.
It is that, after bringing shame on his family and his state, after pleading guilty to a crime, and after promising to step down, he has again gone back on his word.
That job is his, damnit, and you aren't going to pry it from his hands until he is good and ready.
Unhealthy sense of entitlement.
Senator Craig is certainly the gift that keeps on giving....Christmas for democrats and its only September...
1) That wanting gay sex doesn't make one gay.
2) That he was going to be able to keep this hush-hush by pleading guilty.
3) That a Senator would be able to get away with cruising for anonymous gay sex in airport privvies without ever getting caught.
4) That he still has a political career.
1. I don't agree he's in "denial" about this. My guess is that he really isn't "gay."
2. This isn't an issue of denial. He took a calculated risk against rather steep odds. He may have been a fool, but describing his misjudgment as "denial" is a stretch.
3. See 2.
4. Yes, he may be in denial about his political career.
So, I'll give you 4.
You are claiming that if someone is elected many times, any sense of entitlement they have to the position is healthy. This is hogwash.
Perhaps we aren't sharing the same definition of "entitlement." I believe that if you are elected to high office, in this case the Senate of the United States, you are entitled to the powers and privileges that come along with the responsibilities of the office.
If you mean by "entitlement" the phrase "above the law," then we agree. Otherwise, I'll stand by my statement.
I really wonder what outcome Senator Craig sees in all of this. Is he incredibly dense, or has he been sold a bill of goods by the resurrection team he has hired?
Re: the cycling incident. I read through the report, and Sgt. Karsnia seems like a secondary character to me, supervising the main lunkhead.
Larry Craig: Don't let the stall door hit you on the butt on the way out.
The plane touched down at 1138 and arrived at the gate to deplane about 1150. We can assume Senator Craig was in 1A first class (comfortably 10 feet from a lavatory BY THE WAY) on his flight in from Boise...I guess he won't use unisex airplane bathrooms...
The incident started in the men's restroom within 10 minutes of the door opening.
You could explain it by shopping I guess but I think you could also better explain it by "if I hurry, I can make the restroom and maybe hook up".
Hd: I agree with you regarding your last paragraph - that Craig was probably in a hurry for a hook-up. He was probably thinking about it the whole way there.
However, are you saying that if you needed to take a big grizzly you would prefer doing it in the 2x2 airplane bathroom just before touchdown rather than a stall in the airport?
ahh... the things we learn about our fellow bloggers.
I don't agree he's in "denial" about this. My guess is that he really isn't "gay."
I don't get how its possible that you can want anonymous gay sex and not be gay. If you are not gay and want gay sex, then something is seriously wrong with you.
Then again, one could win the game adaption of "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" only by having tea and no tea at the same time.
So the answer is obviously 42.
"Why is it "sad" that a man doesn't see himself as "gay"? My guess is that Craig isn't attracted to men, and like Bill Clinton, doesn't believe that a BJ counts as sex."
The difference being that Clinton didn't want to give the blow jobs.
The difference being that Clinton didn't want to give the blow jobs.
My assumption here is that Craig was trolling for getting, not giving a BJ.
How do you know Craig was wanting to receive a bj rather than giving.
All of his actions with hand under stall would indicate he was looking/yearning for a cock.
I think it is sad because I think that would be a sad life for any man living two lives. Lieing to himself as well as his family about who is he.
Also, how "happy" or gratifying must sex be for a man in a toilet? Exciting, dangerous-yes. But not necessarily fulfilling.
I don't get how its possible that you can want anonymous gay sex and not be gay.
Getting a blow job from a man doesn't make you gay. Most acknowledge that having sex with a man while incarcerated doesn't necessarily mean you're "gay."
Sexuality is a mysterious thing. The homosexual political crowd wants us to believe that any man-to-man sex automatically puts you in their camp. I'm not so sure. If Craig has absolutely no attraction for men, but doesn't mind getting a BJ from some guy in the adjacent toilet stall, does that make him "gay"? I say it doesn't. Others will say it does.
cum se cum sa, n'est se pas?
Men in prison don't have any other options.
Larry Craig had other options.
I think it depends on what he wanted to do sexually. If he was the one looking to give a bj I think that would be pretty hard, pardon the pun, to say that he is not gay or bi. On the other hand if was looking to receive he may just be horny and interested in any wet mouth.
giving a blowjob is pretty gay though.
Giving, getting- ??
The man went to this particular bathroom, made a beeline for it after deplaning, and made the usual signals. And, upon the arrest, enjoyed the frisking. No, just kidding about that. I think.
Craig's sexuality doesn't interest me (to the extent it doesn't compromise his actions or integrity in office *or his truthfulness in a lawsuit*), but his public denial that this was gay behavior does. How can engaging in gay sexual acts- apparently- many times over not mean you aren't gay or bi-sexual? If it depends on your definition of gay, we're getting into Clintonesque parsing/ rationalization which is probably more offensive to the rest of us than his what should have been private (legal tho' cheating-illicit) behavior.
Gedaliya: I don't agree he's in "denial" about this. My guess is that he really isn't "gay."
My assumption here is that Craig was trolling for getting, not giving a BJ.
Pitching or catching, you're still playing ball.
How can engaging in gay sexual acts- apparently- many times over not mean you aren't gay or bi-sexual? If it depends on your definition of gay, we're getting into Clintonesque parsing/ rationalization
This was my first reaction too. However, when considering Craig's behavior along with gay sex that occurs in prisons, perhaps it is true that a person can be into anonymous gay sex without being gay. After all, I assume that most men in prisons would probably prefer to have sex with women than their fellow inmates. In that sense Craig is not technically a hypocrite about issues such as gay marriage unless he voted somewhere to outlaw gay sex.
So now Craig can go back to his constituents and say "I am not gay, I just like to have gay sex once and a while."
Maybe this works in San Francisco, but not in Idaho.
But, should he resign? Here is a comparable: if we found out that Senator Schumer and his wife were "swingers," it is likely that Schumer would have a hard time getting re-elected. However, would people be urging Schumer to resign before his term is up for being revealed to be a swinger?
Titus,
You gotta tone down the language. No one wants to hear your sex slang here. Its offensive.
sloan, in your example of Schumer, I'm sure there would be any number of Republicans urging the Senator to resign. Just like so many Rs urged Craig to resign so as not to taint the virtuous purity of the Gay Old Party.
However, Democrats would likely view it as a private matter between the Senator and his wife, unless Schumer makes a habit of bashing swingers to make political hay. Or unless they're swinging in an airport restroom.
titus, I laugh at your postings, don't change a thing. Ignore the scolds.
Another in the just the punchline series...."but Chunks is my dog."
However, Democrats would likely view it as a private matter between the Senator and his wife, unless Schumer makes a habit of bashing swingers
Do you think Schumer would be a hypocrite in this case if he held himself out to be in a traditional American family - i.e., a wife, kids, a dog. Is swinging acceptable Americal morals?
Larry Craig is not in prison so the comparison to prisoners is not valid. Prisoners have their hand or some hole from their fellow male prisoners.
I happen to think if you like gay sex you are gay, call me crazy.
Larry Craig is in deep denial and probably thinks of a gay as some guy in a leather harness on a float on Catro Street. He doesn't fit that sterotype so he thinks he isn't gay.
Also, watching the clips of his children on Good Morning America was totally Clintonesque. They talked about the conversation they had with him about the definition of "words" including what gay meant and about sex acts.
And the guy just wanted a good blowjob. Guys tend to give other guys better blowjobs than women. We know what men like.
And looking at the clips of him it looks like his wife probably isn't much of a cocksucker. She may nipple around the head a little (if he's lucky) but she really doesn't know how to devour a cock. I could be wrong and she could be a real animal but she looks like the type that doesn't suck cock.
I meant "Castro Street".
Also his wife may not be a good cocksucker but she does look like she can whip up a mean meal of chicken kiev.
Is swinging acceptable Americal morals?
I suppose it depends how nosy one is. I really don't care to invade my neighbor's privacy and delve into their sex lives. If they asked me if I thought swinging was acceptable, I'd say my morality does not apply to them.
Swinging is not illegal. I think that says something about acceptable American morals.
Anybody holding office that isn't calling for this idiot to get lost is brain dead.
If he stays, how many do you think will have him help out campaigning?
How many will even mention his name?
This is a joke.
Sloan, Fen, Seven and little Pogo swing with each other on weekends.
Craig should have claimed he was on the way to a Senate vote. Sorta worked for Patrick Kennedy after he nearly ran down a Capitol cop in the middle of the night. I'll bet the Senators' private entrance to the Capitol looks a lot like that Minneapolis airport bathroom.....
chuckr...or is that chucles?
U.S. Senators blowing people or being blown in bathrooms isn't quite the same.
Have YOU ever driven while under the influence...or do YOU blow people in bathrooms?
Larry Craig is in deep denial...
This is standard boilerplate from the homosexual rights playbook. You state it as if it was fact, when it is nothing more than silly speculation.
Craig says he isn't a homosexual. I believe him. Again, getting a blow job in an airport toilet stall doesn't make you a homo anymore than getting a blowjob in the prison shower stall makes you a homo. If Craig likes to give BJs, or if Craig finds men attractive and sexy, then yes, I'd say he was "gay." If however, he doesn't find men sexy and has never been the giver of such favors, I'd say there is no evidence he's a homosexual.
Lucky, why do you hate the troops so much?
If Craig likes to give BJs, or if Craig finds men attractive and sexy, then yes, I'd say he was "gay." If however, he doesn't find men sexy and has never been the giver of such favors, I'd say there is no evidence he's a homosexual.
You will find this article interesting.
I thought the Senator said he was going to retire to follow his dream of writing children's book that combined his love of animals and travel...Bi-curious George goes to Washington..being the first in the series.
I am sorry but if a man is trolling an airport or a train station looking for sex with another man he is gay.
I am no homosexual activist but come on, the guy is not in prison. Prisoners don't have any other option.
This isn't Larry Craig's first time in this environment as evidenced by his knowledge of all of the cruising signals.
I really dont care if he comes out or not-that is his issue but to say that a gay who has gay sex sin't gay, whether they ear giving or receiving it ludcris.
I don't give at all during sex, just receive. I'm selfish so I guess maybe I'm not gay either-cool.
I don't give at all during sex, just receive. I'm selfish so I guess maybe I'm not gay either-cool.
That's just one part of the two-part test, remember? The first, and most important part, is whether men arouse Craig on sight, or whether they do not. If they do not, I doubt he's gay. He says he is not gay, and my guess he says this because he doesn't find men attractive nor is he active during sex with men.
Looking at what happened, I can think of only two possible explanations.
1. He's really, really unuckly. By some horrible run of bad luck, within a few minutes he unknowingly managed to give the same guy three consecutive 'let's do it, now!' signals and the guy that got the signals was a cop instead of someone who wouldn't have noticed the signals or would have declined or accepted the proposal (with interesting consequences). That's possible ... but not very probable.
2. He's an afficionado of anonymous same-sex encounters in bathrooms. This is the more economical, and likely explanation (all the rest of this post assumes this is what happened).
Even if 2. is the case, that doesn't make him gay. No, really.
I assume that he wants to be heterosexual and is able to carry out the conventions of such a life and finds some satisfaction in it. That he also likes the occasional anonymous sexual encounter in a mens room is immaterial (whether he's receiving or, more likely, giving). For the sake of argument let's say he's 90% straight but wants a little variety now and then (in the form of disposable men).
Crucially, there's no indication here that he wants to (or could) pair-bond with another man in a sustained romantic sexual relationship when a heterosexual relationship is possible.
So, I'd say he's not gay. But he _does_ have a serious kink or two (and is probably in denial about that).
Oh yeah, he's also a complete tool if he thinks he has a political career...
While I'm here. I wonder how long before the term 'wide stance' starts appearing in gay personal ads.
G, you wrote that you'd consider Craig to be gay if men arouse him on sight.
What does that mean? Aroused by the sight of any man? Most men? Three out of ten? Only the hot ones?
Further, G, I've read a few commentaries from gay men who admit to participating in cruising, and they all say that Craig was signalling that he'd be on the receiving end.
What does that mean? Aroused by the sight of any man? Most men? Three out of ten? Only the hot ones?
Good question. Well, I guess my answer would be that if Craig is capable of being sexually aroused at the sight of any man (unclassified as to what "hot" means...there is no accounting for taste), there would be a high likelihood that he was "gay."
Further, G, I've read a few commentaries from gay men who admit to participating in cruising, and they all say that Craig was signalling that he'd be on the receiving end.
If this is true I'd say his public denials are lies.
But let me quote michael ferris, above:
Crucially, there's no indication here that he wants to (or could) pair-bond with another man in a sustained romantic sexual relationship when a heterosexual relationship is possible.
This may be an even better test than the ones I suggested.
"I am not gay"
Why do you not believe what he says ( on a microphone in front of millions)? So then you believe he's a g.d. liar in addition to whatever else he is? I thought honesty was an important trait for people elected to (high) office. Now we must "get down" to resolving the issue of whether or not Craig is a gay liar. He must take a lie detector test or be "blown" out of office. (He might enjoy that part.)
Sloan,
Running low on meds...again?
Penso che siate gay.
Comrade Lucky: The troops defend you, why do you hate them so?
Sloan, I have one question for you:
Are YOU blowing any of the troops?
And are you partial to...airports?
I love it that he hired Michael Vick's lawyer. I didn't know he also hired Monica Lewinsky's. What a legal team! A kite-tail of old scandal briefs (no pun intended) to help him get aloft!
I know this is probably just a coincidence, but Sloan...and Craig...both have really, really WIDE feet.
Weird, huh??
I don't think the gay community wants Larry Craig to be one of them.
But as every gay person knows - Craig is 100% gay. It's not even questionable.
Straight guys don't fool around with guys on the side, when women are available - unless you know - they're really gay.
But as every gay person knows - Craig is 100% gay. It's not even questionable.
Do you have any sources for this? I don't believe you.
Gedaliya,
You;re either really, really naive, young or just plain dumb.
Ask any of the straight men you know if they've EVER touched another man's foot in another stall of a public bathroom...EVER.
If you're a man...have YOU???
Look kid, for all you know I am Larry Craig. The Internet is good at keeping us all anonymous.
Read the thread. You may learn something about what it means to be "gay" and what it does not mean.
C'mon...let's do a POLL.
How many men here have ever touched another man's foot in an adjoining stall...EVER???
I haven't.
Gedaliya said...Look kid, for all you know I am Larry Craig. The Internet is good at keeping us all anonymous. Read the thread. You may learn something about what it means to be "gay" and what it does not mean."
What does any of that bullshit have to do with my question?
Gedaliya,
Cutting and running???
Gedaliya,
Chickenshit.
Straight guys don't fool around with guys on the side, when women are available - unless you know - they're really gay.
Generally this makes sense. But did you read the Washington Post article I posted above? That seems to contradict the statement. Also, what about those ancient greeks.....
Lucky, I am burning some green house gases in your honor.
Stop hating the troops so much.
Sloan,
You're a gutless little pussy...and you know it, too.
Sloan offers this as evidence Craig wasn't trolling: "After entering an adjacent stall, he sat, tapped his foot and touched the occupant's shoe with his own."
Has ANYONE here EVER touched another man's foot in an adjoining stall?
I think Sloan has.
Notice how Sloan slinks back into his trailer when confronted with facts?
Gutless.
The anti-gay bigotry spewed here by leftist trolls is appalling.
Lucky said Notice how Sloan slinks back into his trailer when confronted with facts?
Heh... why should I respond to someone who cites fake facts. I don't recall claiming that Craig wasn't trolling.
I bought an SUV in your honor. (just like Al's)
Maybe you should support the troops some more and be thankful for the freedoms you have.
A lobbying group has issued a call for a boycott of MSP airport.
http://www.landrights.org/id/Craig%20Boycott%20E-mail1.pdf
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