See the update on this post. It's getting ridiculous. I consider it a gross breach of blogging ethics.
UPDATE: And he doesn't tip.
November 28, 2006
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35 comments:
Indeed. He also doesn't have a comments section, which is is another breach of blogging ethics, in my opinion. It really isn't that hard to moderate the profane comments, though I am sure he would get a lot of them. A blog has to have a comments section.
you really think he's "vilifying" you?
give me a break
Toldja he'd be mad that you pointed he didn't coin the word "Christianist"!
; )
Sullivan's never really done in for the linking thing, as I recall. I remember left-wingers complaining about it, back before Sullivan decided it was time to be on their team again.
It isn't a breach of ethics so much as a sign of self-involvement. Andrew just doesn't really view other blogs as important, or at least not nearly as important as his opinions about those blogs.
And his use of the phrase "begs for me" is, ummm, yeah.
Honey, take a read through your comments section, and think about how the company you keep defines you. Would YOU consider yourself worth linking to?
Why?
I heard the guy doesn't like women
I suppose, playing by Sullivan's rules, fair is fair - Andrew Sullivan, Sodomist.
Since, after all, "sodomist" is in the eye of the beholder.
Ann Althouse asked: "Why does Andrew Sullivan keep talking about me without linking to me?"
May I presume to guess?
He's still English.
Over there, a snub counts as a feat of derring-do.
Especially a snub directed to one's betters.
Old habits die hard.
Bob's your uncle.
"Christianist" did not, until somebody mentioned it have a connotation similar to Islamist, although I must admit that "Islamist" did not have any particular connotation, it being new and also having been surpassed in the vernacular by Islamo-Fascist pretty quickly.
Oh, please. It's fine to criticize Ann for her opinions, but don't be deliberately dense.
Do you think for one second Andrew Sullivan would have latched onto (and think he invented) the term "Christianist" if "Islamist" wasn't already in circulation? If the term used for the jihad fighters was "Islamitoid," you can count on it, Andrew Sullivan would have suddenly thought up the brilliant new word, "Christianitoid."
His point is to equate opposition to gay marriage to the Islamist demand that the world submit to Islamic law. Period. Two "radical" views. Two "uncompromising" groups. Two foes to be defeated. One not worse than the other.
I say this, by the way, as a supporter of gay marriage. Sullivan's is the worst approach I've yet heard to bringing the gay marriage idea into wide acceptance.
But, Andrew Sullivan has clearly lost it. Either he's not as smart as he used to be -- burnout perhaps -- or he had a lot of people fooled initially. Ann, I do agree with those who say stop bothering with him. He was important once as a sort of pioneer, but not so much anymore. What you call his "breach of ethics" is more a case of his being a very 2002 blogger -- an op-ed writer who claimed some internet territory when it was still kinda new, but afraid of user-participation.
Well, you set a high standard for blogging ethics. Comments here are great -- very interactive, unlike other top bloggers. John Stodder's remarks seem to hit the nail on the head.
Burkean Reflections
So Chris, are you saying that you would not like to associate with any blog that would allow you to comment?
The horror. The horror.
My disregard for Mr Sullivan's opinions continues unaffected by Ann's umbrage.
We could act like Lewis Carrol and make up names to refer to what everyone seems to agree is a segment of the Christian population dedicated to infusing politics with a particular fundamentalist Christian philosophy.
The problem isn't making up words to refer to people.
The problem using is words with obvious connotations. "Christianist" is technically defensible ("Christian" plus "ist", "adherent of a doctrine") as a description for politically active Christians. But, as discussed in an earlier thread, "sexual deviant" is a technically accurate term for a homosexual (deviant: "deviating or departing from the norm"). Indeed, pre-Lawrence "sexually deviant criminal" would have been a technically accurate description for many gay men in America.
Nevertheless, an honest person has to concede that both "Christianist" and "sexual deviant" have colloquial connotations that are (a) extremely negative and (b) grossly unfair to Christians and gays respectively. The former clearly brings to mind Islamists, who murder innocents by the thousands, and the latter clearly brings up rapists, child molesters, and people who achieve sexual gratification from animals. Therefore an honest speaker of the English language should not use those terms while pretending no slur is intended. Sullivan would take offensive if a Christian described him as an advocate of sexual deviance. He should stop trying to pretend he's not using the same kind of slur on *his* enemies.
You want a good term for a Christian who thinks homosexuality is sinful, gay marriage is illegitimate, and neither should be sanctioned by the government? One already exists -- it's "Christian". It is rather absurd to argue that anti-gay Christians, who are backed by approximately SIX THOUSAND YEARS of official Judeo-Christian homophobia, hostility to gay marriage, and support for laws against sodomy, represent some special form of Christianity that needs its own special name.
Yea I liked Sullivan back in days, especially around 2003 or so. But then he started saying weird shit like gulags and torture were bad. But I knew he lost it sometime last year when he was claiming the war was getting worse, instead of better, and criticizing Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld. I don't know who this asshole thinks he is.
"Andrew Sullivan has clearly lost it. Either he's not as smart as he used to be -- burnout perhaps -- or he had a lot of people fooled initially."
I have to disagree with the "had people fooled" hypothesis. There was a time when Sullivan could be counted on for original thinking supported by clear logic. In particular, his early writing showed a way to reconcile gayness with a rejection of the conventional liberal orthodoxy foisted on members of the gay community. Sullivan was an inspiration to me as a gay person who wanted the freedom to think for myself outside the identity- politics lockstep.
Sullivan's incoherence and peevishness now make him painful to read. But he wasn't always like this.
Reverent,
You're right about everything except for the fact that its not 6,000 years old, most laws against sodomy are only a couple of decades old, Jesus never used the word "gay" or "homosexual" or their Aramaic equivalent, the founders wanted to erect a wall between church and state. Also, even if you don't think the government should condone gay marriage, there's no reason why so many of the state constitutional amendments should go out of there way to take other rights away from gay couples.
Wade said:
Also, even if you don't think the government should condone gay marriage, there's no reason why so many of the state constitutional amendments should go out of there way to take other rights away from gay couples.
Which states besides Wisconsin to be specific? I think it's important in terms of law to distinguish between rights that don't exist and therefore can't be taken away, vs. rights that will be come into existence.
I used to be a Sullivan subscriber and admirer until he held that infamous 2003 fire sale on all his previously cherished convictions.
Ann, he won't engage you in a real debate because of your intellectual honesty and clarity. But he will use you to batter his enemy du jour, such as Instapundit, and quote you selectively to advance his agenda.
Andrew has become a literary sniper who aims to provoke his targets into writing something that makes him feel superior or self-important. If you don't find his tactics pointless and tiresome yet, keep trying to engage him on the merits of his argument or absence thereof and you will soon enough.
knemon said:
"Virginia for one"
And was that right or recognition there before the amendment and thus swept away?
I do find it hysterical that those who object most vehemently to the word "Christianist" are the same ones who regularly use the term "Islamo-Fascist".
And I can't help but notice the gay-bashing on this thread. You know - if you disagree with someone about an issue and they happen to be gay - might as well start using anti-gay slurs.
And they call me hateful . . .
And Sullivan has a habit of not linking, so don't take it personally Ann.
I like Sully - but that is one of his major flaws.
wade_Garrett, where in the world did you get the idea that "most laws against sodomy are only a couple of decades old?" Do you have any cites?
For instance, what about the case of Bowers v Hardwick in Georgia?
For a history of sodomy laws in Georgia, see http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/
georgia/georgia.htm
The first sodomy law in Georgia was passed in 1817, which would be a bit more than two decades, I think. More like two centuries.
Also, as wikipedia points out, Leviticus makes sodomy a capital crime several millenia ago, the Romans had Rex Scantia at least a couple of millenia ago, and England had the "Buggery Act of 1533 with death by hanging.
To be honest, Professor Althouse, I thought it would have been wiser to treat Mr. Sullivan's sour petulence the way you deal with a sulking toddler: Don't reward them with the validation of attention.
Sorry, I don't mind a debate, but the bitching about you being part of an 'axis' 'prodding' him I don't want to know where... is just strange. 'Poor, poor pitiful me' has never been one of my favourite songs, and isn't it ironic that it's always the most vitriolic who turn out to be skinless in the face of criticism. Another point of similarity with the 'Christiant far-right' he claims to find so contemptible.
Having said that, nasty brutish & short, it's nonsense that A blog has to have a comments section. When I was blogging, I didn't have any such thing simply because I didn't have the time to promptly delete offensive and/or legally actionable comments by a very small number of persistent trolls. Perhaps Mr. Sullivan - and Time - would include a comments section if you agreed to accept personal liability for the contents.
Jorgx-
As long as we're talking about the old testament, why don't we start selling daughters into slavery? Exodus condones that. Let's start killing people for working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly condones it! Good times. While we're at it, I'm going to start killing Wisconsin farmers for planting different crops side-by-side. And if I still have time (I might not, I'm a law student and exams are approaching) I'm going to kill all of you people who wear clothes made from two different fabrics.
And for the record, are you a football fan? Leviticus 11:7 states that touching the skin of a dead pig makes you unclean. Can the Packers still play football? Can my cousin's high school football team? Can Liberty University or Notre Dame? Can West Point? Oh man, I love the Old Testament!
15 yard penalty on wade garrett for moving the goal posts.
Replay second down.
Ann, do what Ace at Ace Of Spades HQ has already done, and boycott Sullivan:
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/202205.php
On the necessity of a comments section: It is hard to keep the comments from going bad. Sullivan would attack all sorts of taunts and he'd have to hire an assistant just to keep them from being a mess. Note that Glenn Reynolds doesn't have comments. I have them, but I have lower traffic, and in fact, I do put too much time in to monitoring them.
Wade: a football is made of cow hide. I'm not sure where the term pig-skin came from.
I don't think comments are essential to a blog. They're nice, but can get out of hand easily, especially in high-profile non-liberal ones that attract the crazed leftist spewers from Kos et al. Insty doesn't have them because he is concerned -- demonstrably deservedly so -- that the MSM (I actually hate that acronym, but it's so appropriate) will latch onto anything said in there and implicate him by association. They have, in fact, done this with other conservative blogs.
I'm rather surprised this place has such a reasonable comments section, since it's fairly high-profile and political much of the time. Probably the Disney Theory in action; that is, if the host behaves in a certain way, guests will, too. And really, Ann is a largely genteel blogger, both objectively and compared with many other political blogs.
It's nice that bloggers have such a positive ethical take on this. Mainstream media, especially online newspapers, tend to be horendous at linking to their online sources.
I think the way the Gawker folks handle their comments works pretty well for high-volume sites. Basically, it is invitation only. Usually their comments are pretty hysterical, as the idiots have been pre-screened.
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