Vietnam and Watergate were arguably triumphs for honest reporting. But they were also defeats for America--and for millions of freedom-loving people in the world. They ushered in an era when the political opposition and much of the press have sought not just to defeat administrations but to delegitimize them. The pursuit of Karl Rove by the left and the press has been just the latest episode in the attempted criminalization of political differences. Is there any hope that it might turn out to be the last?
१६ जून, २००६
"It has been a tough 10 days for those who see current events through the prisms of Vietnam and Watergate."
So writes Michael Barone in the Wall Street Journal. The piece is mostly about the strange obsession with seeing Karl Rove indicted:
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
पोस्ट्स
३९ टिप्पण्या:
The one thing missing from your quoted paragraph, at least as far as Watergate is concerned, is a reminder of the seemingly criminal activity that was flourishing in the Executive Branch. Is the author suggesting the world and America would have been better off had the reporters not pursued the story? I don't blame the press for the way history has played out, post-Watergate -- it's just another consequence of the deeds of the President back then.
Mr. Barone is a write at a Newsweekly. In the future if a juicy faux scandal runs his way, can I expect he will run away from it?
The pursuit of Karl Rove by the left and the press has been just the latest episode in the attempted criminalization of political differences.
Oh, it's completely true. The Whitehouse had great news this week, one of their senior advisors was NOT indicted. Woohoo!
You have pretty low expectations of our President's behavior (mirrored perhaps in your own behavior these days) if you ask me, but if this is the gruel at which you wish to dine, all the more power to you. It's a thin gruel, how does it actually taste to you?
In the meantime I will note that while Rove is innocent until proven guilty, he admitted to the FBI that he was Cooper and Novak's source in the outing of Valerie Plame an undercover agent working to discover Iran's WMD capabilities and working in the general area of WMD proliferation (AQ Khan supposedly.) Rove wasn't cleared of wrong doing by any means by any official statement from the prosecutor who in fact has made no public statements about this. He just wasn't indicted. In the meantime Plame was still outed by Rove, and since then our situation with Iran has become much more dangerous.
Bush did get a big bump from this. After a week of "good news", Apparently a bump of 1% from 36% to 37% in the WSJ's own poll meaning that more than 60% of America still understand the American disaster known as GWB.
The guy is a disaster for America and apparently only the last throes of the deadenders still cannot understand that.
It is hard in retrospect to understand why the left put so much psychic energy into the notion that Mr. Rove would be indicted. He certainly was an important target.
It wasn't long ago all the psychic energy was being poured into reviving the "Bush Lied" theme. Then Bush gave a couple of "Get a Grip" speeches and it fizzled out. It'll be something else in the next couple weeks.
Our Karl slips out of the noose, zaqawri bites the dust, an Iraqi government is formed and there are massive raids and arrests and more slain terrorists, the DOW bumps up +198, the Senate 93-6 says NO to pulling troops out of Iraq early, SCOTUS gives a nod and wink to our hard-charging cops, the Democrats vote the crook Jefferson off the Ways & Means Committee, Bush swoops in unannounced to Iraq and wows Iraqis and our boys over there, who all fell just short of calling him King George the Conqueror, though there was some behind-the-scenes prostration by some Iraqi leaders.....yes, recent times have been bad for the Left and I think a couple of stiff belts of top-shelf bourbon are in order here.
Michael Barone is right. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.
But I'm sure they'll feel better after a few good car bombings in Baghdad. Not that they're for defeat or anything.
he admitted to the FBI that he was Cooper and Novak's source in the outing of Valerie Plame ...
Well, then you should get in touch with the special procecutor then since you know more about it that he does.
No, Jeff, you should check what you think you know about this. I got this information from court filings and discussions in the press.
Analysis: Telling FBI the Truth Saved Rove
By PETE YOST , 06.13.2006, 02:07 PM
The decision not to charge Karl Rove shows there often are no consequences for misleading the public.
In 2003, while Rove allowed the White House to tell the news media that he had no role in leaking Valerie Plame's CIA identity, the presidential aide was secretly telling the FBI the truth.
It's now known that Rove had discussed Plame's CIA employment with conservative columnist Robert Novak, who exposed her identity less than a week later, citing two unidentified senior administration officials.
Rove's truth-telling to the FBI saved him from indictment.
You're allowed your own opinion Jeff but you are not allowed your own facts.
I think a key paragraph from the column includes this:
"Journalists in the 1940s, '50s and early '60s tended to believe they had a duty to buttress Americans' faith in their leaders and their government. Journalists since Vietnam and Watergate have tended to believe that they have a duty to undermine such faith, especially when the wrong party is in office."
We have enough "fact" finders on both sides of the aisle. Where are the truly impartial journalists willing to play their critical role in society to find the real facts and dismiss the false? I realize I am naive - this never existed - but it was more civilised in the past.
I can see it's politicized, mackan. Everyone can.
I think what bothers many of us in the "middle," though, is that every White House is politicized ... you can't tell me Sid Blumenthal and Lanny Davis were any worse than Karl Rove on that count.
When I hear arguments like yours ... I instantly dismiss it, because you're mad your side isn't in power, not that the whole system is overly political.
Both sides say "Oh, we're paragons of honestly and open politics! The other guy is evil and deserves to be punished?" But in reality, it's sour grapes.
Oh, I don't know, Mackan. If someone edited your comment by inserting Carville and Clinton in the appropriate places, I think we'd have the typical partisan GOP view during the Clinton Administration. In fact, some are still so bitter about it that they are holding on to that feeling 6 long years after it ended, as we can see here on just about any given day.
It seems to me that one side's genius is almost always the other side's evil monster. But then, I'm not a true believer in either side.
The role of the White house in the Plame story was and is an insignificant kerfuffle. Joe Wilson and his evasions and half-truths, dedicated as they were to discredit Bush, were rightly discredited themselves.
The left wants to make this into an important story of Corruption in High Places. What it exposed was the left's desperate at-all-costs attempts to unseat Bush. And to see it fizzsle out this way is simply intolerable, as one can see by the thrashing about here.
Please clear this up for me. Was Valerie Plame "outed"? Meaning her status as an undercover CIA agent revealed? I think that would be a crime and I don't remember there being any such charges in this case.
Did Rove have converstaions with Cooper, Novak, etc, where her name came up and her connection to the Wilson/Niger trip discussed? Seems like everyone knows that.
Joe Wilson and his evasions and half-truths,
Please enumerate.
As I understand the Republican Party talking point, Valerie Plame's status was no longer classified because VP Cheney declassified it. He had the power to do so because of a classified Presidential Order from President Bush allowing Cheney to declassify anything he saw fit. Or something like that.
The reports I've seen have noted that Plame's neighbors did not know her true job, which to me means she was undercover -- that's what it would mean in my neighborhood, at least :) More recent reports say she was working on Iran and Nuclear secrets, but I don't recall reading about that before the latest push to link Iran and nuclear ambitions, so I'm not sure what to make of it.
For someone just trying to live a life, keeping track of this whole kerfuffle can be exhausting.
The CIA Leak: Plame Was Still Covert Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion. (A CIA spokesman at the time is quoted as saying Plame was "unlikely" to take further trips overseas, though.) Fitzgerald concluded he could not charge Libby for violating a 1982 law banning the outing of a covert CIA agent; apparently he lacked proof Libby was aware of her covert status when he talked about her three times with New York Times reporter Judith Miller. Fitzgerald did consider charging Libby with violating the so-called Espionage Act, which prohibits the disclosure of "national defense information," the papers show; he ended up indicting Libby for lying about when and from whom he learned about Plame.
Watergate was used as an excuse to abandon our allies in South Viet Nam. It directly contributed to the downfall of an ally and the deaths of millions in that region.
So is the press responsible, or is Nixon?
You can argue that the Press might have asked itself to foresee what would happen if Nixon were toppled as he was -- that those "against" Nixon who were also against involvement in Viet Nam might gain an advantage in Congress by having Nixon and his supporters -- many of whom were war supporters -- cut off at the knees, and vote to cut off money to South Vietnam. Why can't you make the same request of Nixon? Shouldn't he, or his advisors, considered the same thing, namely what would happen globally if the truth came out? As it almost always does.
If you're going to take the Press to task for the ramifications of things that happen when the press reports, I think you have to portion part of the blame also to those causing the stuff the press is reporting on. Barone seems to blame the press (an interesting viewpoint, given his job). I think he overstates things.
As if to confirm Newsweek's analysis, Cheney came out the next week to claim he had the power to declassify anything he wishes to.
So at the least what we appear to have is: Plame was covert. Outing her did damage to the country because of her work on Iran and nuclear proliferation. Outing her may not have been a crime since the Vice President determined that her covert status was no longer classified.
That's the Republican theory.
Now as a citizen, or as an intelligence agent, how should you feel about a Vice President that makes it legal to declassify such information?
Ann?
Madisonman is right about the time this takes to debunk the right wing distortions.
I need to get to work.
Enjoy your day keeping America safe for distortions.
Yes. We should prosecute anyone for leaking Plames name if she was indeed covert. At the same time, lets also prosecute reporters at the NY Times for leaking stories they and we know were covert.
Btw, Andrea Mitchell commented that it was widely known that Plame worked for the CIA. Libby's lawyer says he has witnesses who are will to testify to the same thing. Mitchel later backtracked on her story when she found out it hurt the left.
Further, we should put Wilson under oath again and let him state whether the op ed he wrote in the NY Times claiming that Saddam's attempt to purchase Uranium from Niger not true. After all, when Wilson was under oath during the Senate Intel Committee hearings he reported a different story than his op ed piece (why is that?)
The Plame story is another great example of the Left believing that committing fraud or lying is okay as long as the goal is the greater good (the greater good as defined by the left). To the left, the truth is relative - therefore there is no such thing as truth. Didn't George Orwell discuss this strange behavior?
Memogate is another great example, only that time the Left got caught red handed and the spin "Just because the memos are fake, does not mean they are not real," wasn't able to convince the average 2nd grader.
IR:
"In fact, some are still so bitter about [the Clinton administration] that they are holding on to that feeling 6 long years after it ended."
Funny, it seems to me that those who are bitterest about the end of the Clinton administration -- which, I suspect, will ironically enough be recorded in history as "old liberalism"'s last gasp -- aren't Republicans, but our friends like Quxxo, whose routine knashing of teeth seems predicated on the extreme frustration that a majority of Americans are so dumb that we don't agree with him. I guess now he knows how Republicans felt during the Carter administration: "let's just keep our heads down and hope America survives this idiot." Of course, the difference was that the GOP recognized that it had to change and had the man waiting in the wings to do it, while I have serious doubts that the Democrats have the capacity for change, let alone the perspicacity to recognize its necessity, and still less that they have their own Ronald Reagan on standby.
that a majority of Americans are so dumb that we don't agree with him.
Simon, don't be simple. The WSJ's own polls and other recent polls show the overwhelming majority of Americans do agree with me: Bush is the worst president ever, Republicans are not to be trusted in financial or security matters, and the war in Iraq was a mistake.
Mackan: "Democrats attack these people because they're terrible terrible people. If you need a "purpose" to attack Karl Rove, you may be a lot of things, but you're clearly not a Democrat."
Jaques Cuze (from another thread): "Please be direct and to the point and try to avoid innuendo in place of an actual argument (a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.)"
Hmmm.
Well I'm glad to know that the final word on Plame's covert status came from Isikoff in Feb 2006.
Fake but accurate
Not indicted but guilty
I detect a pattern
While most of Barone's article strikes me as fair comment, and factual, I believe that these two statements are neither:
Journalists in the 1940s, '50s and early '60s tended to believe they had a duty to buttress Americans' faith in their leaders and their government. Journalists since Vietnam and Watergate have tended to believe that they have a duty to undermine such faith, especially when the wrong party is in office.
I doubt Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, Joseph McCarthy, Richard Nixon, the Warren Court, and any number of other government leaders during those times thought the press was buttressing anyone's faith in their leadership. In fact, most of them are on record as lamenting unfair press coverage.
I don't think most journalists think they have a "duty" to do anything but advance their own careers. Post-Watergate, many do seem to believe that finding fault and creating the aura of scandal are the dual paths to fame and riches. That has probably always been true. It is just more obvious at the moment because our access to information independent of journalist-interpreters is easier, making the current heavily-titled partisanship of the traditional content providers more apparent.
"Simon, don't be simple."
Are you in grade school?
"The WSJ's own polls and other recent polls show the overwhelming majority of Americans do agree with me: Bush is the worst president ever, Republicans are not to be trusted in financial or security matters, and the war in Iraq was a mistake."
What people tell a ballot box, vs. what they are willing to admit (or claim) to an opinion pollster, are sometimes two very different things. Democrats were making these same claims about Bush before the 2002 and 2004 elections, and while Bush's opinion poll numbers were already plenty beneath 50% before the '04 election, the fact remains that every time they have been asked to decide in a meaningful context, the electorate has handed the Democrats their asses. There are two conclusions available: either the people hate Bush but hate the Democrats more, or opinion polls are unreliable. Neither possibility helps you much here.
There were a couple of different statutes potentially involved with Plame, et al. First, there was a very narrow statute for outing a covert agent. The problems there were that intent was problematic, as was whether Ms. Plame fell within the statute, given that she had been back in the states for quite awhile raising twins.
The second potential statute violated would have been disclosure of classified information. But, as noted above, the VP has delegated authority from the President to declassify anything he wants to.
Which is why the special prosecutor determined quite awhile ago that no primary crime had most likely been committed. Since then, he spent his time on crimes potentially committed during his investigation, and hence the Libby indictment.
I am not sure where you draw the line here. Regardless of all the hype, there is almost no indication that anyone in the Administration committed any "crimes" in "outing" Plame. Maybe in the "coverup". But where does political hard ball turn into unethical? Not sure.
Here's a fantasy that only would happen in fiction, in this case one of Clancy's later novels.
American news networks asked to assist in a bit of misinformation about the whereabouts of a US aircraft carrier. They kick and scream in private, but agree. Doing some on camera work that makes it appear the carrier is still in port. When the truth comes out, the reporter stands in front of what is clearly an empty pier and says something like:
"... well ultimately after all, we are an AMERICAN News Network"
It worked that way through WWI and I think through Korea, but not ever again, I'm afraid.
Drill Sgt, It could work that way again. I have a suspicion that the Vietnam generation (who now runs the American mainstream media) is unqiue in their extreme leftism. Thus, I have confidence that in the future, the news outlets will be filled by people who became adults during a more conservative era.
And just wait... after Iraq emerges as a prosperous and free country, the left will be clamering to say they supported it (they just disapproved of the means)..
You will hear these arguments in a few years:
1) Bush's ass was saved by the bravery and competence of the Iraqi people, implying that they would have accomplished freedom without the war.
2) Bush's goal was never to free the Iraqi people, he only went in because of the WMD.
They are, of course, completely false. But the Left has never shied away from making up facts.
"The atmosphere is poisoned to the point that the whole city of D.C. needs to be evacuated and then fumigated."
Not to sound horribly macabre and pessimistic, but if terrorists levelled downtown Washington, I'd almost be inclined to make arrangements to move the national capital to Nebraska. The location of the capital was chosen when America was a small nation clinging to the Atlantic coast; Washington is cited roughly in the geographic center of the old states, and it stands to some level of reason that had America already attained its continental proportions when revolution broke out, they would have still chosen the geographic center, viz., Nebraska.
In the normal course of events, I wouldn't propose moving it, but in the case that something extraordinary happened that meant we would start again, I would consider this possibility.
"...A terrorist was killed (1)...."
Oh please Monique. How ridiculous. Maybe yo should say, today a single Microsoft employee, Bill Gates, announced his retirement. No big deal.
Or maybe some previous headlines from Monique:
"Michael Jorden, one of 300 active NBA players today annouced his retirement. The other 299, however, are still playing - no big deal."
Or
"Today Crick Watson and Wilson submitted a paper on DNA. This is one of thousands of sientific papers submitted this year - Hmm not a big deal.."
Sloan,
The problem is that the journalism establishment, like the education establishment self selects, screens and indoctrinates through J school, and Ed school, then hires.
It's a pretty closed loop cycle today.
Too many J schools and Ed schools have as mission statements:
Progressive education and social justice.
Drill, your probably right. I am just trying to be hopeful.
I'm not so sure, Michael. Rumor has it that the modern definition of "terrorist" is " a person who frightens, intimidates, makes uncomfortable or otherwise takes aim, figuratively or literally, at a professional journalist."
If that's your standard, then I suspect that a whole bunch of your neighbors qualify as undercover, as I doubt that you know what every one of them does for a living.
I don't know what all of my neighbors do, true. But I'll wager that there is no one in the neighborhood whose job is unknown by someone else in the neighborhood. That was my meaning. Apologies for the lack of clarity.
P.S. Thanks for the link to the old commentary. I didn't see my name in it, so even back then I was suffering from fatigue in trying to keep things straight!
Moan: "As to your other "quotes" from me, I never said them and you're dishonest in implying that I did."
Why is it that some - in another direction than right or center - don't understand sarcasm and wit? Lighten up. I'm sure Sloan worked hard to hold back completely ripping your self-denial, rationalization that nothing can be positive as long as he's in the White House!
".....So, best wishes for a future in which the government plays a smaller, less intrusive part in all of our lives. If that makes me a liberal, I can live with that.
...."
Here! Here!
The liberals could even get my vote if they were for smaller government....
However, that would ertainly be a bizarro world. Leftism is completely impotent without the power of government.
Mackan said...
Do you guys really dispute that this has been a politicized White House? Do you really not think Rove has anything to do with that? Can you really not see why this angers Democrats?
The White House politcized? No!!!!!! Say it isn't so.
Congressman Jack "in cold blood" Murtha may be in trouble in his own district.
My prediction? In the coming elections Bush will retain the Presidentcy and the Dems will lose seats.
My prediction? In the coming elections Bush will retain the Presidentcy and the Dems will lose seats.
My prediction? In 06, Bush will retain the presidency. In 08, he will lose the presidency.
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा