tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post9164137717084588691..comments2024-03-19T08:18:14.544-05:00Comments on Althouse: 72-hour wait between consultation and abortion...Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger335125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-58013628585582382692011-03-27T19:27:13.681-05:002011-03-27T19:27:13.681-05:00I'm one of those nutty pro-choicers living in ...I'm one of those nutty pro-choicers living in the state of South Dakota. <br /><br />I believe that the right to an abortion is as fundamental as the right to bear arms. <br /><br />Current restrictions on abortion are not geared to make the women more informed or better informed, they exist soley to try to browbeat, berate and beat down women for even CONSIDERING exercising their right to choose. <br /><br />How pro-lifers can legitimately claim that 'life begins at conception' or equate a collection of cells as having equal rights as a full grown adult is mind-boggling to me. <br /><br />Why should I, a intelligent, full grown woman, endure nine months of pregnancy because somebody else thinks they know better than me? <br /><br />I'm no baby mill for pro-lifers to control.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-54470776996344658832011-03-23T09:50:55.006-05:002011-03-23T09:50:55.006-05:00peter hoh said...
"Simon, I suspect that the ...peter hoh said...<br />"<i>Simon, I suspect that the provision most likely to be struck down is the one requiring a visit to an approved pregnancy center. </i>"<br /><br />Right, section 3(3)(a). But I'm not sure it's bound to be struck down. <i>Casey</i> upheld an informed consent statute which "require[] that at least 24 hours before performing an abortion a physician inform the woman of the nature of the procedure, the health risks of the abortion and of childbirth, and the 'probable gestational age of the unborn child,'" and "of the availability of printed materials published by the State describing the fetus and providing information about medical assistance for childbirth, information about child support from the father, and a list of agencies which provide adoption and other services as alternatives to abortion." 505 U.S., at 881. To be sure, that's a somewhat different statute. In that case, the physician would directly deliver this information, while HB1217 requires a referral to a third party "pregnancy help center." (It's not clear whether the referral <i>must</i> be to a center meeting the criteria of section 5.) Suppose the same information is given either way; can the Constitutionality of the measure really turn on whether that information is delivered by the abortionist or a third party? Stipulating the possibility of circumstances giving rise to an as applied challenge, how does the referral become an undue burden on its face?Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10065798213115341398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-9111296963183097462011-03-23T09:44:56.733-05:002011-03-23T09:44:56.733-05:00This thread is probably dead but...
as for waitin...This thread is probably dead but...<br /> as for waiting periods if I might point out a federal regulation that has and continues to be in effect since the '70's. It pertains to federal funding of a sterilization procedure and was meant to prevent "forced sterilization". Key phrase in the permit:<br /><br /><i>I understand that the operation will not be done until at least thirty days after I sign this form. </i><br /><br />Whole form <a href="http://www.hhs.gov/forms/HHS-687.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a>Phil 314https://www.blogger.com/profile/04133300763922742206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-32635421466386292552011-03-23T09:18:26.179-05:002011-03-23T09:18:26.179-05:00John J;
Think of all the unfertilized eggs begging...John J;<br /><i>Think of all the unfertilized eggs begging for life. What about their rights? Certainly that ought not be left to the woman who happens to carry them. That should be the concern of strangers, the state, all of society.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/456483" rel="nofollow">Well you do bring up and interesting issue for discussion</a>. (In spite of your attempted snark)Phil 314https://www.blogger.com/profile/04133300763922742206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-37989371352341038572011-03-23T08:17:11.330-05:002011-03-23T08:17:11.330-05:00A 3 day waiting period was acceptable for buying a...A 3 day waiting period was acceptable for buying a gun, i guess we will see if it ok for an abortion. Turn about is fair play, i can't see any objection if you supported the waiting period on guns.Mophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02237775315387774484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-30221678309700721692011-03-23T06:38:27.324-05:002011-03-23T06:38:27.324-05:00"Think of all the unfertilized eggs begging f..."Think of all the unfertilized eggs begging for life. What about their rights?"<br /><br />Think about the millions of sperm cells that never reach the egg? What about that too!Reneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852754398007790428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-4226963359765731232011-03-23T06:07:37.786-05:002011-03-23T06:07:37.786-05:00A better law would be to insure there are no more ...A better law would be to insure there are no more clinics such as Kermit Gosnell ran. He certainly destroyed that back alley story that pervades the abortion discussion.gemmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16828891166303941604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21910846470464871662011-03-23T05:05:46.391-05:002011-03-23T05:05:46.391-05:00Why limit the state's power to the unborn? T...Why limit the state's power to the unborn? Think of all the unfertilized eggs begging for life. What about their rights? Certainly that ought not be left to the woman who happens to carry them. That should be the concern of strangers, the state, all of society. I think they need a chance to be born. What the woman thinks be damned. Everyone should choose as I would, by law. It's critical to a free country. And I don't care who the woman is, it is obviously my right and obligation to make it my business. A moral imperative. <br />I'm sure to some that means I am against an unabridged 2nd amendment right to bear arms, but they would be wrong.John0 Juanderlusthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12075248997178323818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-21845823046889339372011-03-23T02:42:38.485-05:002011-03-23T02:42:38.485-05:00Being strongly and consistently pro-life, I unders...Being strongly and consistently pro-life, I understand the legal issues with this law. <br /><br />I'm very fortunate to have a good support system through out my pregnancies. When I get pregnant, my family never thought my children destroyed my life or theirs. I'm pretty damn lucky that when I had my first baby, family members were willing to watch her and I had a great school with flexible day/night classes. <br /><br />Women get an abortion, not because she doesn't want the baby or unable to care for the child, but rather she's been abandoned. When I do read abortion stories, even when the abortion isn't coerced and chosen, it always other people's reactions and feelings towards the pregnancy that affect the decision. <br /><br />I don't see abortion as liberating, but rather a cruel loop hole for others to walk away.Reneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852754398007790428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-17041333873482025762011-03-23T02:42:19.022-05:002011-03-23T02:42:19.022-05:00Former Law student wrote:
Society is all about the...Former Law student wrote:<br />Society is all about the raising of future citizens -- this is the only rationale for caring about abortion at all. That's why society requires both parents to support their offspring.<br /><br> Yet the mother and the law shut the man out of any decision making during the pregnancy, then demand that he support a baby that someone else made the choice to keep or not. If society is all about the raising of future citizens and wanting to have both parent raise the offspring, why would it make it legal to kill that child in the womb? <br />If the mother can make the choice to keep the child, despite the fact that she knows the financial hardship she'll have to endure she should choose for herself and not the dad as well. Since the choice has always been hers and hers alone anyway.<br />"I choose, because I have a baby in my womb, to raise the child and make you pay for the costs even though we're not married and you want nothing to do with the child". The baby is only in the mothers womb nine months, how come she can choose for the dad for the next 20 years?<br />Now this is not to say that dads shouldn't support their babies. Only mothers have the option of not even allowing a baby to live on the grounds that they're not ready to be a mom. Why can they make that choice for a man.<br />Suppose I'm not ready to be a dad, and it will be a financial hardship for me to raise a kid. It's apprently an honorable position for a mother, and grounds for her to murder her baby, but yet not grounds for a dad too? If a mother makes the choice to kill her kid it's her choice alone, even if the dad desparately wants the kid. If the mother wants the kid and knows she won't be able to support the baby, and knows that the father doesn't want the baby, then doesn't her choice involve more than simply her womb? She's choosing what that man has to do with the rest of his life simpy because she has a baby in her womb that she alone chose to keep, knowing that she may not be able to afford it.<br />If you want to make the woman have the sole decision to keep or kill a baby, then she should factor in whether she can raise that baby. It's in effect HER baby. So then the only decisions she should make should impact her only. If a dad wants to be a dad, he should be allowed, but he shouldn't be forced to be a dad, just as a woman shouldn't be forced to have a kid she doesn't want (if we're going to argue that abortion should be legal).Why does womens reproductive freedom mean they get the right to turn men into indentured servants?jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/07630491937904835553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77807900207652395632011-03-23T02:25:51.814-05:002011-03-23T02:25:51.814-05:00Former law student wrote:
Realize that "human...Former law student wrote:<br />Realize that "human" is an adjective. My cyst was a human cyst. Is a fetus a human being? That depends on how developed it is.<br /><br> Does your cyst have it's own heart beat and unique dna?jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/07630491937904835553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-77850882479032223732011-03-23T02:23:50.743-05:002011-03-23T02:23:50.743-05:00Sophia X wrote:
The "wait 3 days for a marria...Sophia X wrote:<br />The "wait 3 days for a marriage license" comparison makes a little bit more sense, but in that case the state suffers real consequences when people get married foolishly -- divorces take up court assets. <br /><br> Are the people getting married and then divorced in those three days? If not, then it's silly to justify a 3 day waiting period for a marriage on the grounds that the couple may in the future get divorce. Besides, how long does it take for families to actually plan weddings in the first place? Couldn't that waiting period similarly be viewed as a waiting period whereby a bride and groom can determine if they are going to get married or not? This is not to say that you shouldn't wait 3 days, only that its not a grounds to say waiting 3 days for an abortion doesn't make sense but that it does make sense to wait 3 days for a marriage license.jr565https://www.blogger.com/profile/07630491937904835553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-62605164579173871712011-03-23T00:38:59.868-05:002011-03-23T00:38:59.868-05:00Simon, I suspect that the provision most likely to...Simon, I suspect that the provision most likely to be struck down is the one requiring a visit to an approved pregnancy center. Did you read the language in the bill relating to these centers? <br /><br />For those who favor the gun purchase analogy, this would be like making someone who wanted to buy a gun sit for a session with an anti-gun organization.Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-61169735210215306312011-03-23T00:26:30.682-05:002011-03-23T00:26:30.682-05:00My cyst was a human cyst. Is a fetus a human being...<i>My cyst was a human cyst. Is a fetus a human being? That depends on how developed it is.</i><br /><br />You understood perfectly well I meant "human being" but again, you hid from the issues with word games. "Depends?" It's a living organism; it has its own unique human DNA. Barring misadventure, it will grow to be a human adult. Sounds suspiciously like a human being.DA Munroehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05581919826253955120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-48559763436267928822011-03-23T00:23:18.535-05:002011-03-23T00:23:18.535-05:00FLS: Is a Negro a human being? That depends on ho...FLS: <i> Is a Negro a human being? That depends on how developed it is.</i><br /><br />Next, you'll be measuring its cranium. <br /><br />Just say it, FLS, you know you want to.<br /><br />Sub-human.<br /><br />Thats the word you want to use.Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-29481487115571231632011-03-23T00:12:57.305-05:002011-03-23T00:12:57.305-05:00a fetus is a human (something you seem confused ab...<i>a fetus is a human (something you seem confused about)</i><br /><br />Realize that "human" is an adjective. My cyst was a human cyst. Is a fetus a human being? That depends on how developed it is.former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-60123164733541635252011-03-22T23:55:26.654-05:002011-03-22T23:55:26.654-05:00FLS, let's say you're right - illegal abor...FLS, let's say you're right - illegal abortions leads to some back-alley abortions. That is orthogonal to the scientific question of whether a fetus is a human (something you seem confused about).DA Munroehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05581919826253955120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-33425269750020332372011-03-22T23:36:27.428-05:002011-03-22T23:36:27.428-05:00Thats another lie.
I gave two references. If you ...<i>Thats another lie.</i><br /><br />I gave two references. If you can't be arsed to read them it's not my problem.<br /><br /><i>"“This report carefully and clearly debunks the myth that women will die if abortion is no longer available...</i><br /><br />Oh, sure, the research arm of the National Right To Life Committee. <br /><br />If I gave you the results of gun control research conducted by the Violence Policy Center would you take it at face value?former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-64631581509248941362011-03-22T23:31:37.059-05:002011-03-22T23:31:37.059-05:00Fen: Do Negroes have yolk sacs?Fen: Do Negroes have yolk sacs?former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-3673463411395974072011-03-22T23:30:21.416-05:002011-03-22T23:30:21.416-05:00Poor women got backalley abortions and sometimes d...<i>Poor women got backalley abortions and sometimes died.</i><br /><br />Thats another lie. <br /><br />"“This report carefully and clearly debunks the myth that women will die if abortion is no longer available... <b>Medical progress in treating complications, not legalization of abortion, accounts for the enormous drop in maternal abortion deaths from the 1940s to the 1970s.</b><br /><br /><br />•Before Roe v. Wade, there were approximately 100,000 illegal abortions per year, a number far lower than the 1 million claimed by abortion advocates.<br /><br />•The largest reasonably possible number of illegal abortions in any one year before Roe v. Wade was approximately 210,000 in 1961; the lowest was about 39,000 in 1950. The mean was 98,000 per year.<br /><br />•The data demonstrates an exponential increase in the number of abortions since legalization. There are roughly 16 times as many abortions now each year as there were in an average year before Roe v. Wade.<br /><br />•The claims by abortion advocates that 1,000,000 or more illegal abortions occurred annually and 5,000-10,000 women died are based on inaccurately calculated extrapolations from flawed and erroneous data of the 1920s and the 1930s – the pre-penicillin era.<br /><br />•The number of deaths of childbearing-age women for non-abortion related causes remained relatively constant in the years before Roe v. Wade, showing that deaths from illegal abortion could not have been “hidden” under other causes of death.<br /><br />•<b>Advances in medical technology, not the legalization of abortion, caused a significant drop in the number of maternal deaths from abortion</b>:<br />- maternal deaths from illegal abortions were above 1,000 per year only in the pre-penicillin era (1940). The maternal abortion deaths dropped sharply with the advent of antibiotics (penicillin and sulfa) and other medical advances to treat infections."<br /><br />http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0449_Life_Without_Roe.htmlFenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-23267121930276824932011-03-22T23:19:12.800-05:002011-03-22T23:19:12.800-05:00FLS: A Negro is human but not a human.
Yes people...FLS: <i>A Negro is human but not a human.</i><br /><br />Yes people, they actually call themselves "progressive"...Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-73807138281277346882011-03-22T23:17:35.565-05:002011-03-22T23:17:35.565-05:00FLS: Jay must be a connoisseur of gore -- it would...FLS: <i>Jay must be a connoisseur of gore -- it would take far more than 39 dead women to get his attention.</i><br /><br />More than 39 have died this year alone at abortion clinics. Before you lecture Jay, explain why that never hit your own radar?Fenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16734571593963330215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-39766240595857143352011-03-22T23:12:56.446-05:002011-03-22T23:12:56.446-05:00"I noticed for what, the 21st time in a row, ...<i>"I noticed for what, the 21st time in a row, the US census neglected to count fetal-Americans."</i><br /><br />I was referring to scientific, not legal, fact, FLS.<br /><br /><i>"Human but not human?"</i> That's an absurd answer. A newborn baby's not a fully-formed adult either but we recognize it as a human on an early part of the lifecycle. Same thing with a fetus.<br /><br /><i>"physical condition"</i> - your wording was intended to imply that it's a disease without explicitly saying so. At any rate it's misdirection. Most women don't get abortions because they fear for their lives. <br />(btw "DA" are initials, not a title).DA Munroehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05581919826253955120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-34826717853809500032011-03-22T23:05:22.303-05:002011-03-22T23:05:22.303-05:00The bottom line is, either you think a fetus is a ...<i>The bottom line is, either you think a fetus is a human or you don't.</i><br /><br />A fetus is human but not a human.<br /><br />I noticed for what, the 21st time in a row, the US census neglected to count fetal-Americans.<br /><br />Is Munroe really a DA, BTW? Most lawyers can differentiate between a "physical condition" and a "disease."former law studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15196697206046544350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-86258353881106957742011-03-22T22:32:51.499-05:002011-03-22T22:32:51.499-05:00Let it go John. Sophia X is bitter because she doe...Let it go John. Sophia X is bitter because she doesn't like being reminded that she sent her child off to become landfill.DA Munroehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05581919826253955120noreply@blogger.com